Germany is ordering 200 more Puma IFV's.
>>64646378Jesus. How much is on their shopping list?
>>64646417I think it stands at 454 more vehicles have been approved by the Bundestag.
>>64646417Ja.
>>646464173000 Boxer, 1000 Leos, 500 Puma, 200 RCHMore orders are expected.
>>64646417The defense minister yesterday or the day before mentioned that they have about 30 more projects they'd like to get budgets approved for before the end of the yearParliament is shitting their pants already claiming there won't be enough oversight etc.
Don't want to be that FPV drone tard. But it needs some protection. But its great gear though.
>>64646378>Germany actually starts buying shitton of military equipment>talks about bringing back mandatory military service>German troops are being sent to the Polish-Belarussian border to help with the wallUmm, what happened?
>>64646417They approved a €50B shopping list a couple of hours ago.
>>64646467>Umm, what happened?Monke saw bananMonke wants banan
>>64646446>>64646417The parliamentary butget comission approved 30 projects totalling roughly EUR 50 bln today.
>>64646467It's the great uncuckening of 2025.
>>64646467Wasn't there an election last year that changed the government?
>>64646497Yeah, but it's mostly the fact that Merz (previously a >muh transatlantic relationship cuck) became a based eurofed overnight.
>>64646467Intel niggas are getting reaally spooked all around Europe which is making politicians spooked. For good reason, I'd say. Now central & western european men have to man the fuck up, realize & accept that mandatory consciption is unavoidable for a sufficient deterrent. Si vis pacem, para bellum, motherfuckers. Zigger retards only understand strength.T: a finn
>>64646526Just remeber that you all wanted us to dig up the Pickelhaube. Dont complain afterwards.t. a german
>>64646550I'll take germans over ziggers any day
>>64646550Nächstes mal ohne Italien
>>64646526>consciption is unavoidable for a sufficient deterrentMost yuropean nations have populations big enough that universal conscription isn't necessary nor useful for them.terv, a finn who can count
Still waiting for that 500 MLRS, 500 RCH, 1 million drones, 500 Eurofighter purchase.
>>64646574A framework agreement for 500 RCH155 was was approved today. The first batch of 81 vehicles will be ordered in the next few days.
>>64646565Better safe than sorry I say, also why is Germany wanting to bring it back then if their numbers are good as is? They're explicitly keeping the option should there not be enough volunteers joining up.Saatanan sivari vielä varmaan.
>>64646574One trillion Helsing CA-1 Evropa.
>>64646565UK and maybe France can meet their recruitment quotas. Most of the European armies can't simply get enough recruits voluntarily.
Its becoming more and more fitting for KNDS' IPO to go through in 2026
I'm so fucking glad germany is finally taking responsibility. Europe is stronger together. BENIN BIIDI BIISI SEMBER FI DYRANNOSAURUS
>>64646467The beast stirs
>>64646378>200way too low numbers to have economy of scaleand of course the problem of excessive amounts of different versions and vehicles without added benefit accross EuropeIt has to be part of a wider European strategyI think Germany / the companies have to take some Ls for the sake of common production and cede a little bit in terms of workshare/contracts so that everyone can benefit in the long run, even they themselves in the form of becoming competitive again and perhaps also gaining some tech, trust and contracts in return t.kraut
>>64646730>DYRANNOSAURUS:DDDDDD
>>64646467Vatfricans fucking up what should have been an easy win triggers the German species to start producing TZD pheromones, like how grasshoppers become locusts.
>>64646525It's not like he's got much of a choice if he is a responsible leader given the fact that the US are apparently a queer mix of oligarchs and neo-tankies now.I think it's a shame we can no longer pursue this relationship, it was something great.But even I can't ignore that America has literally declared it wants to tear Europe apart (because it's based and prevents civilizational erasure or sth, apparently)
>>64646730SCHNIBBEDI SCHNABB :DDD
>>64646378This feels like nothing. 200? Less than division?
>>64646417they may not have said it yet, but ze germans, and ze europeans in general, really luv war
>>64646378>"most sources estimate Germany used around 50,000 tanks throughout WW2">preparing for ww3>possesses 300+200 tanksWoah watch out, they may almost be able to threaten a mid-size town with an armoured corps like that!
>>64646914you don't need 50000 tanks when you can just use 1000 combined EU aircraft to precision bomb 10000 enemy logistics trucks, AA and depos so the enemy can't do anything
>>64646917This was also the case in World War 2.>"Germany used around 20,000 medium bombs and around 6,500 dive bombers for tactical roles throughout WWII">EU prepares for WWIII>1000 multirolesWatch out guys! They might threaten 1 major city with that fleet!
>>64646467>million ukies move to germany>germany starts to uncuck itselfthank you, ukies
>>64646926That's because you are retarded enough to think saturation bombings work. Back in WW2 they had to manually aim their bombs and to make sure things were actually hit they needed more planes which meant they needed more bombs too and wasted more resources. 1000 modern planes with the logistics to operate them could achieve a hundred times the objectives of 1000 planes from 1940, just look at Desert Storm.Destroying a city is pointless, just destroy their logistics so the infrastructure can be used by you later.
>>64646467Brutus Iscariot
>>64646440>3000 Boxer, 1000 Leos, 500 Puma, 200 RCHI am fucking mad desu.Boxer mostly has only a shitty MG on it, no anti-drone autocannon turrets.They buy 1000 Leo 2 instead of finally building a proper Leo 3 with 3 man crew, linear leclerc style autoloader and unmanned turret like armata with 130mm gun with 50% higher muzzle velocity and ofc active protection system and anti-drone autocannon turret.Only 500 Puma?And wtf do they want with that RCH garbage, I want more PzH2000 it's far superior.
>>64646497yeah we went from uniparty to uniparty and*looks at notes*absolutely nothing changed
>>64647057>with 130mm gunEh... I feel like the benefits of this particular design choice would not at all outweigh the costs and sacrifices.
>>64647062What fucking costs? The 130mm costs the same to make as the 120.What fucking sacrifice?The 130 is the same size and weight as the 120.Maybe a little bit less ammo but even that is questionable. If you eliminate the loader and the turret is unmanned with an efficiently packed linear loader, you free up space for a bigger turret magazine.
>>64647079Your new tanks are now incompatible with your old stockpile of tank shells, and those of all of your allies. You have to spend money on R&D for new rounds in 130mm, retool your shell factories, and rebuild your stockpiles.
>>64646378If you say so. Include a source next time you low effort newfag.
>>64647127
>>64647158It could be true, but nobody likes an OP with one sentence and no source to back up their claim. C'mon man.
>>64647174Fair enough, but it is true. It's not even obscure.
>>64646787200 *more*, they have ordered 600 in total.
>>64647079>The 130mm costs the same to make as the 120.No, it does not. You'll need to R&D the ammo and gun, which will inflate the costs of both. You'll then need to create a new production line for the ammo, instead of using existing ones. You have a video game tier logic of industry and economy.
>>64646467>talks about bringing back mandatory military serviceMore than that. Conscription was never formally abolished, it was just stopped on the administrative level. 12 days ago they passed relevant laws to re-introduce mandatory service registration in the Bundestag, wit hnext to no political opposition. Like, there was ~3000 people demonstrating against this in Berlin, and that was by far the largest protest against it. 3k people in a protest in Berlin is fucking hilarious, you could probably get more than that to protest if someone mildly unpopular got voted into the city council.
>>64647057Why do we need a 130mm gun? Russian armour can be dealt with by ATGMs and drones. Fighting infantry and light vehicles can easily be done with 120mm (or 105 for that matter). Tanks are dubious with current and future tech anyway. Rather buy more skyrangers and drones.
>>64646914Wow, it's almost like western armies spent the last 80 years becoming smaller in numbers and more sophisticated and powerful in technology.>>64646926One flight of modern multirole jets laoded up with modern PGMs can do a better job at grinding a nation to a halt than a thousand WWII strategic bombers, retard.
>>64646440Hmmm....enough to Barbarossa 2 Elektrik Boogalooschen?
>>64647297That depends...
>>64646467The asiatic hordes are at the gates of EVROPA once more
>>64647104Stockpiles of 120mm aren't that huge anyways. Older shit, yes, but only the new shit can piece new tanks anyways and that has never been procured in quantity.120mm has been in service for decades, it has been maxxed out, we have optimized the the ammo to death, elongated the barrel, there's zero room for growth.Even on the 130 there is no room for growth. It already operates at 880MPa of pressure.Sig wanted to push the M7 rifle above 80k PSI and talked about "maybe" being able to do 125k PSI.Well Rheinmetall's 130mm tank gun does 127k PSI already. At 20x the diameter. *CRAZY* amounts of pressure.For germany producing some 130mm tank ammo is peanuts.
>>64647224>No, it does not. You'll need to R&D the ammo and gun, which will inflate the costs of both. You'll then need to create a new production line for the ammo, instead of using existing ones. You have a video game tier logic of industry and economy.No, you don't. You do not know what you are talking about at all.Rheinmetall already anticipated the need for such a gun, and developed it and the ammo with private funding. They already build it years ago, and tested it.It works.Switching a 120mm shell factory to make 130mm shells is trivial. It's such a small bump in size most of the machinery can be re-used with minor modification on the tooling without the need for new machines.You can stop 120mm production entirely since germany has barely any 120mm guns and enough stockpile to feed them.Germany had 3200 Leopard 2 with 120mm gun in the 90's, then reduced down to 200.The ammo stockpile for those 3200 Leopard 2 still exists, but it's mostly outdated ammo which can't piece a modern tank.They had to develop new projectiles and a longer barrel for it.The new projectiles were only procured in tiny quantities, and the longer barrels have downsides in manoeuvring through obstacles (forests, towns).Shut down 120mm production, shift to 130mm entirely. If you REALLY need 120mm ammo, half a dozen companies in NATO make some. Buy it for your 200 outdated rear echelon Leopard 2, who cares. The several 1000 Leopard 3 frontline units with 130mm is what matters.You think so small, you are so pathetic.>hey /k/ bigger is better>noo i am a fag i want smol gun like my smol penis
>>64647254>Why do we need a 130mm gun?That's not a valid question.If you procure tanks with 120mm guns, then that implies that>Russian armour can be dealt with by ATGMs and drones.Is wrong and you NEED a direct fire element (i.e. a tank gun) which throws a fucking tungsten slug.If that is the case, then your tungsten slug needs to fuck the tank armor for good.120mm has been continously improved with longer projectiles, higher pressures, and longer barrels.This has now been maxxed out with 5 generations of ammo for the 120mm gun, zero growth.Tanks these days have service lifes of decades, buying shit that is end-of-life cycle makes no sense.>Tanks are dubiousYour brain is dubious.
>>64646787> picPlans? They are already there.https://files.catbox.moe/aaqz4d.mp4https://files.catbox.moe/fd8v4v.mp4https://files.catbox.moe/du7qc8.mp4https://files.catbox.moe/7m91br.mp4https://files.catbox.moe/aquzof.mp4https://files.catbox.moe/7i75cm.mp4https://files.catbox.moe/sgxaby.mp4
>>64647057>Purchases are made to increase readiness of material>"Just introduces more exotic equipment to the mix"Thanks for your input
>>64647353>Switching a 120mm shell factory to make 130mm shells is trivialnta, but no, it's not.
>>64646565>terv, a finn who can countFucking intellectuals. Should have shot them when we had the chance
>>64647363>If you procure tanks with 120mm guns, then that implies that>>Russian armour can be dealt with by ATGMs and drones.>Is wrong and you NEED a direct fire element (i.e. a tank gun) which throws a fucking tungsten slug.Ukraine proves that you don't. They deal with russian armour with ATGMs and drones just fine. Crude ATGMs and drone at that.>Your brain is dubious.You have zero arguments.
>>64647372I actually am a manufacturing engineer, it is trivial.In fact they make 155 and 120mm shells on the same production lines by swapping the tooling.
>>64647417>I actually am a manufacturing engineer, it is trivial.and I had experience actually getting shit actually produced for us, even basic bitch changes cost a ton of money, god forbid it's an actually fully new product
>>64647417>In fact they make 155 and 120mm shells on the same production lines by swapping the tooling.Are you trolling at this point?
>>64647423Maybe some retarded artisanal production lines do work like that, but they can't do mass production in any significant numbers
>>64647403>Ukraine provesThat slavs suck at war. Both have basically zero high-tech systems and slug out a WW1 with scraps people toss them out of pity.It has nothing to do with how the US or europe would fight a war.We would run their anti-air systems into the ground with a DEAD campaign and operate with air superiority and near perfect ISR.We wouldn't have soldiers walk or drive motorcycles across supply lines under drone attacks, we would slap an autocannon or auto grenade launcher with airburst and APS millimeter wave rdr sensors on anything that drives and blast FPVs out of the sky while playing "they see me roll'in".You are essentially a child in terms of your intellectual capabilities, an unarmed combatant on this battlefield staring into the barrel of my brain.Run while I let you.
>>64647429>That slavs suck at warMy brown friend, when were you last fighting a real war?
>>64647429>That slavs suck at war.And slavs are our future foe. Who don't have any of those nice anti drone weaponry we have. So we don't need tanks to defeat them. Can you follow my logic?
>>64647428>Maybe some retarded artisanal production lines do work like thatWhich is what rheinmetall's vast cold war production facilities turned into after 90's collapse of soviet union when germany decided to decimate 90% of their tank fleet.This is now being undone but it has been the state of being for decades by now.
>>64647461They are already not like that. AFAIK Rheinmetall alone has more than 1 million shells per year production capacity and they're still expanding it.
>>64647436I literally look like a nazi propaganda poster with blue eyes, blond hair and chiselled jaw, but you cope as you have to mykola/ivan.May you die in a trench and make the world a better place.>>64647439Yes let's over-specialize for the current one enemy and ignore anything else on the horizon.Just like the US multiroleslopped itself into bombing sandniggers with impunity and now has to face off vs 3 different 6th gen designs because they thought a 4th gen F/A-18 is all you need.I cannot follow your logic I'm 20 steps ahead of you.Keep your rifle clean and cover your sector and leave thinking to the brains. And stop chewing the fucking crayons.
>>64647417>In fact they make 155 and 120mm shells on the same production lines by swapping the tooling.The tools used for forging and lathing of 155mm shells are the same as the ones used for the composite-based 120mm shells?
>>64647475>I literally look like a nazi propaganda poster with blue eyes, blond hair and chiselled jawSure you do, muhammad
God damnit I'm 37yoIf Russia and china do the funny thing next year would my eu country let me enlist? (No mercenary/ voluntary shit, I want to legally be able to kill and get a salary)
>>64646378>5,56 coax>200 rounds for the main gun>only 6 dismountsYep, I'm going with the newly made BMP-1s, sorry>>64645445
>>64647542Enjoy the fuel tanks in the doors so that you deep fry
>>64647057>>64647254>>64647561what is it about german procurement threads that brings out the absolute retards on here?
>>64647615They are literally filled with foam or sand in Western armies.Look up the BMP-1A1 Ost.
>>64647475post hand brownie turdie turd
>my grandgrandgrandfather killed Russians in Galizia>my grandgrandfathers killed commies in Ukraine/Russia and commie partizans in NDH>both of my grandfathers and my father killed commies and chetniks (wannabe Russians) during the SFRJ break-up>I'm born just in time to kill ziggers who still flaunt commie flags Please God, if you can hear me, either prevent this massive war from breaking out or throw me into the whirlwind like my forefathers before me.
>>64648052Same for my grandfather, died about 15 years agoWonder what he'd have to say about all the shit going down the last few years, more than a few places would have brought back memories from those days
>>64646884this
>>64646892It's about time someone develops much tougher interior paint for .mil vehicles. See how assraped the white paint got from regular use? It always happens.
>>64646525Parts of CDU and SPD are still compromised. A Black and Green coalition (which has no majority) would be even more hawkish.
>>64646711>Most of the European armies can't simply get enough recruits voluntarily.Raise the pay.Lower standards.Make long-term contracts.This is as simple as that.
>>64646787>way too low numbers to have economy of scaleThey hope to export it, of course.And they will.
>>64647057>And wtf do they want with that RCH garbage, I want more PzH2000 it's far superiorIt uses the same technology except the RCH has automation and stabilization letting it fire on the move
>>64647057>Boxer mostly has only a shitty MG on it, no anti-drone autocannon turrets.The whole point of the boxer is that it is modular.They have a lot of variants.Hell, the RCH is a variant of the boxer.
>>64646467Politicians have finally been forced to accept that their poll numbers will look significantly worse if ziggerstan kills a bunch of civilians in a chimpout before committing the national equivalent of suicide by cop than if they spend the money and taxes on actually rebuilding their military so when monke's final hurrah inevitably happens zigs get stonewalled and stomped into the dirt immediately instead of after a few months of scrambling to get their shit together/wait for assistance from western Euros and the US.
>>64646574You realize germany is a small 80m pop country and not china or the US?
>>64649008Meh, cold war germany was even smaller and still managed to field the largest nato army in Europe.The potential is still there.
>>64646462The RCT30 turret is literally able to combat drones your turd.
>>64646561ebin
>>64646467Monkes coming was like the falling of small stones that starts a great avalanche in the mountainsA thing is about to happen that has not happened in an Age. The Europeans are going to wake up, and find that they are strong
>>64649164the only difference that matters is that back then, germany wasn't run by boomers like it is todayit doesn't matter if your entire country's population consists of ubermensch super geniuses if the entire leadership consists of dysgenic subhumans intent on destroying everything their ancestors built
>>64646550You just keep them Krupp guns pointed in the right direction this time and everything will be gravy
>>64648052>>64648917my great grandfather fought the russian horde in Galicia/Ukrainemy grandfather took part in the encirclement and crushing of the russian horde during the battle of Kievmy father guarded the eastern border against the russian hordeso do I
>>64646467readhttps://themindness.substack.com/p/why-do-governing-elites-support-harmfulhttps://themindness.substack.com/p/behind-the-curtain-sources-and-deephttps://themindness.substack.com/p/weaponizing-time-elite-anxiety-andthe european elites are arming for war against russia not because they believe that russia is a threat to peace but because the european elites refuse to relinquish power and believe that fighting a common enemy is the best way for them to regain their legitimacyeuropeans are stuck in between a rock and a hard place - russians who want to slowly push into europe and EU leaders who refuse to pass on their power. ultimately, it is up to ordinary citizens to strike against the traitors first and only then can the external enemy be dealt with properly
>>64649296nah, we kill all the Russians first and then sort the rest out after
>>64649271Pinky promise.
>>64649246It still needs impact protection you inbred. Holy ESL btw.
>>64649303you don't understand, if you go for the russians first you will simply be stabbed in the back
Framework agreement for 450 new L2 hulls to be build in CZ. Good news.https://www.hartpunkt.de/tatra-defencet-soll-bis-zu-450-leopard-wannen-schweissen/
>>64649164At what point did cold war west germany have 500 modern mrls with the ammunition and logistical backbone for it? Even at their peak they only had a mix of like 200 aging LARS. 1 million drones? 500 modern combat ready gen4/5 fighter aircraft? For a country the size of germany? Nah man.
>>64649648You don't understand, killing Russians always takes priority
>>64649657neat
>>64648983look at this overengineered mess. why do the dutch and the germans need different ambulance modules? this picture sums up the problems of modern europe. you will need a training the span of a phd curriculum to be able to service all these different modules.
>>64646927Don’t forget the Muslims too, they helped man Germany the fuck up
>>64649601Maybe the best protected ifv out there apart from having a active protection system and you are still bitching.
>>64649648go home Ivan, Natasha is waiting
>>64649823It's not enough turdie
>>64649845Alright Ivan.
>>64649648The Russians are the group he was talking about. Get rid of Russia and everyone else can get along. Indians are honorary Russians.
>>64649648
>>64648967I wouldn't be so sure of that. The Puma has a so specific niche that really only makes it attractive for Germany when other offers exist. Especially looking at the successful rheinmetal lynx and the less successful KNDS (former KMW) Boxer Tracked when looking within Germany and various domestic or export models from other European, NATO and NATO friendly nations.>>64648983Don't forget that there also is the Boxer Tracked chassis. It (unfortunately) isn't very successful yet but in theory you can have all the mission modules on a tracked platform as well
>>64649753Strategically broadening the industrial base is indeed neat. And czechbros have a proud history of being very good at building all kinds of shooty stuff.
>>64646440+ Up to 4000 Patria in different variants
>>64647057Get better informations - The next batch of Pumas, Boxers, Patrias and the Leo2A8 successor (which the french are currently mad about) currently in the works all have anti-drone capabilities and the RCH beats the 40+ year old PzH 2000 design in every war game.
>>64651105Leo3 passed a major hurdle when the cooperation between Rheinmetall and KNDS was cleared by the federal intitrust comission.https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Kartellamt-gibt-gruenes-Licht-fuer-Entwicklung-des-Leopard-3-id30145635.html
>>64651139Which also likely spells death for MGCS since they're buying Leo2A8s right now and whatever the new KNDS Rheinmetall versions will be called later onNo way MGCS is still on for service entry by 2050 or whatever, I'd wager it's already decided to leave FCAS and that the MCGS exit will follow
>>64646378Long Live the EU and the free nations of Europe!
>>64651139>>64651326will be interesting to see what France will do then. I've read reports even buying K2 wasn't off the table for them but I find that hard to believe. But their tank industry is virtually gone.
>>64651326If france blows up FCAS they can fuck right off with MGCS. They think they can do a plane alone, we know we can do a tank alone.
>>64649648only if russia joins the EU (which you will sooner or later)
>>64651436We can do a plane alone too, you just have to look how forcefully rheinmetall is building an aviation sector.
>>64647363Okay, and? Existing 120mm turbofucks every existing russian tank, and every tank they can be expected to procure for the next 20-30+ years. Seems to me like it's not a pressing problem.
>>64647461Absolute retard take. Rheinmetall systematically mothballed or dismantled or sold off a bunch of production lines, while keeping a small nubmer exactly the way they were. They did not go artisanal.
>>64651711Wtf happened to Transamur in that picrel?
>>64651711At the roof of the world, Europe will lay her crown.
>>64649772Dutch one is longer and has an inbuilt Tikkie
>>64651711Honestly though if Russia would just stop this madness we could create something actually great. Instead we have the current shit show.
>>64646378...okay? good for them
>>64651105Wait, they have patrias? I always thought they had something homegrown that fit the role.
>>64652144Bad for r*ssia. Heh.
>>64646968The Germans were correct in their dive bombing obsession. When they could no longer secure the airspace for dive bombers to effectively strike ground targets they lost the war. They had no other precision fire mechanism and couldn't do massed artillery in the way America and to a lesser extent lend lease user could.More accuracy means less munitions expended which means less manufacturing which means less trucks driving around which means less fuel. It's the most important advantage NATO has imo.
>>64652353>>64652353The patrias are replacing the Fuchs, Wiesel and Marder and other systems, over 4000 vehicles, The similar homegrown model Fuchs 2 would've been more than 4 times the price. The first batch is for the Nemo Variant of the Patria
