Independence class continues to be the goto testbed for the USN when it comes to fielding experimental autonomous/unmanned or high-trade systems.>The Independence-class littoral combat ship USS Santa Barbara (LCS 32) achieved the historic milestone in the Arabian Gulf while launching a Low-cost Unmanned Combat Attack System (LUCAS).https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/display-news/Article/4363707/us-navy-in-middle-east-employs-attack-drone-at-sea-for-first-time/The way I see it, this provides even more asymmetric ability to the ship in the littorals and a long-range ground strike ability which some people have pointed out is missing without the inclusion of VLS cells or NLOS. What say you?I'm sure the thread will also become a shahed-style drone discussion so that's welcome as well, particularly in the context of launching from or targetting naval platforms.
>Independence class stay winningYeah, when it's hull isn't cracking in half when going over 15 knots or in Sea State 4A barge could have done the same job
>>64658908I've been over and over these claims dozens and dozens of times. They are stale. Get something new.
>>64658887Is that a Shahed with a rocket strapped to it?!?The absolute state of the US Navy.
>>64658992And somehow you still can't debunk it.
>>64658887Gotta use that floating rust bucket, turd log for something.
>>64659093>Is that a Shahed with a rocket strapped to it?!?>Launch options include rail-mounted catapults, rocket-assisted takeoffs from trucks, or palletized drops from C-130 aircraft>The absolute state of the US Navy.You can actually thank the Marine Corp or Army for this, the USN is just adopting it because it seems to be performing well from a cost-benefit analysis.
>>64659113Sure, sure. Now run along, scamp>>64659119Aluminum doesn't rust.
>>64658887>Independence lovers stay winningYou mean the sole one that's obsessed with this failure of a class that is getting retired early?
>>64658887>The independence is now a carrier for awful low cost drones that don't work against basic air defense Utter state of this floating pile of shit
>>64659391The Independence class is great when you aren't the one being sent into battle on it.
>>64658887>Nearly unarmed Coast Guard corvette manages to fire off cargo cult Dorito with JATO packs This could have been done with a fishing boat and with more survivability, it is embarrassing.
>>64659391>that is getting retired early?Stale
So it's a coastal combat ship meant for shallow waters that can't defend against subs, drones, any vessel armed with a 76mm OTO or a random farmer on a hill with a D-30 and some binoculars?
>>64659764Yes
>>64658908Omaha was the only ship that was given a speed limit due to the hull cracking issue, and all of them (including Omaha) have been repaired and reinforced in the two places it was occurring to prevent it from reoccurring.
>>64659764The Swedes built a better LCS designover a hundred years ago
>>64659764>So it's a coastal combat ship meant for shallow watersIts meant for littoral waters, thus the name>that can't defend against subsCorrect. Its ASW module was cancelled in favor of the Constellation frigate. Which was in turn cancelled...>dronesIt does?>any vessel armed with a 76mm OTOIt does?>or a random farmer on a hill with a D-30 and some binoculars?It does? Also, can we address why a random farmer has a D-30?>>64659868A coastal defense ship is in no way equivalent to an LCS. Additionally, there is no way one of these could reasonably take on a single LCS from either class or perform its role better.
>>64659887>Additionally, there is no way one of these could reasonably take on a single LCS from either class or perform its role better.It literally has nothing but a 57mm pop gun, it can't even hit something armed with 76mm or larger without getting hit first. It has no means of engaging in combat against any real military target.>D-30>Sea drone>OTOAny ship meant to fight in coastal waters must be able to counter the threats it will encounter. It can't engage anything that can outrange a 57mm and that includes almost every other 'littoral' ship on earth of even half it's size or any form of land based gun. There are 200 ton boats out there with OTOs that would just kite it to bits. It is helpless against any sort of submerged drone. You see this tiny little floating shit heap i'm posting? It can carry two full sized torpedoes on either side of the blockhouse. This rinky dink tub toy would blow it in half because it simply doesn't have the means to target it at 3-4 times it's effective engagement range.
>>64659940You're not reading (not talking about agreement) what I write so I will extend to you the same courtesy.
>>64659970You are claiming it can stop submarine drones, large caliber guns that outrange it and coastal artillery as well as a coastal defense ship that it literally has no means of harming. Besides a short ranged air defense gun it is unarmed, even it's proposed weapons are vaporware that don't actually exist.You cannot make claims as to the combat ability of a vessel that has no weapons, it isn't a combat ship. It is subpar even for a Third World Coast Guard ship the vast majority of which can vaporize it with impunity.
>>64660043It's sized and armed in a way typical of the roles it fills: sub chaser, mine sweeper, and maritime enforcement. The "littoral combat" role (C-USV and defense against speedboat swarms) is now exclusive to the Freedom class.
>>64660043>You are claimingNo
>>64660070>typical of the roles it fills: sub chaser>With no sonar>No VLS>No ASW weapons
>>64660070So its a 400m patrol boat? Wow what a waste of money.
>>64660140There is a working ASW module with a sonar. It did have a long and troubled development cycle, but what was because the Navy wanted to try and make something useful out of the defective by design shitpile that is the Freedom class rather than anything to do with Independence.>>64660212Yes, the same way that Zumwalt is a 12,000t destroyer. American kit is bigger and better than shoddy chink knockoffs, deal with it.
>>64659201>Aluminum doesn't rust>I'll have what is aluminum oxide for $100, ken
>>64659940>literally has nothingProbably has a .50 and a coupla M14s, too.
>>64658887I think the Independence is a valid hull platform for how flawed the LCS program implementation it was. The concept of stretched/extended hull LCSes to consider as export quasi-frigates should have been looked at in contrast to trying to slam jam all the capabilities that were desired from the LCS program.Team Independence personally because the high speed trimaran hull configuration is interesting to me but Long'd Freedoms are the aforementioned.>Also these Captchas are way easier than having to recognize letters so anyone too dumb to solve them truly deserved to be filtered out.
>>64660243Not rust
>>64660251>I want MM to build more FreedomsI hope everyone on all sides of this argument can come together to beat this man to death
>>64660262Nah I'm Team Independence, just XXL'd into a frigate as a concept.
>>64660239>There is a working ASW moduleNot installed on any of the ships so it can't do the role retard.
>>64659940Retard
>>64660251It sucks that the Freedom Class are dogshit, I love their look over the Independence Class and dont get the love for those weird looking things
>>64660277It's a role it was designed for and one that it's capable of performing with the ASW module, of which at least one exists.
>>64660288>"Independence" Class>Only one of the class with weapons>Named after a totalitarian gun control nutFucking clown world.The Giffords is the only one that was armed as an experiment and it was deemed a failure, there are no more armed versions planned.
>>64660295Because "how it looks" is literally not a factor. This isn't about how "cool" a ship is.
>>64660277>>64660239>>64660330>the U.S. Navy has since decided to discontinue the development of the ASW mission package for the LCS program, opting instead to fulfill anti-submarine warfare requirements with the new Constellation-class frigates. As a result, the need for Independence-class ships to carry the ASW mission package has been eliminated, contributing to the Navy's plan to decommission several LCS vessels, including those of the Independence class.Can't see them, can't fight them and can't protect against them. At least they will let us know there is a coastal sub in the area when Chang, Kim or Ahmed does us a favor by flushing one of these useless floating clumps of shit.
>>64660295Freedom would probably be a lot less bad without the speed requirement, most of its problems are related to the combining gear and pumpjets. Honestly, it probably would have made the most sense for FFGX since they're already making VLS and Aegis equipped Freedoms for the Saudis. Rip out the stupid gofast shit and replace it with a propeller driven CODLOG system and start cranking them out.
>>64660394>>64660262
>>64660358The development is completed (and it was actually functional on Independence long before; the reason it took so long to develop was due to problems with Freedom) and they purchased one complete module that was already in production when procurement was canceled. As far as I know, it's not actually installed on any ship, but there's no reason it couldn't be. There's no specific need for ASW weapons on an ASW-equipped LCS since it would be performing that task as part of a battlegroup and so it would have access to ASW assets in its immediate vicinity.
>>64660333>The Giffords is the only one that was armed as an experiment and it was deemed a failure, there are no more armed versions planned.Objectively false.
>>64660420It has a Seahawk
>>64660429The Giffords is the only one of it's class that has anti ship/anti land capability. Every other missile project was cancelled, besides the Giffords the only one that was even tested IRL was a VLS Hellfire meant for use against speedboats.
>>64660435Yes, but the seahawk is equipped with a sonar system.
>>64660333>>64660442Why would you make a claim so easily disproven with so much confidence? All of the LCSes are getting NSMs with the Lethality & Survivability Improvements upgrade. Giffords was just the first to receive it, they're all getting it as they come in for scheduled maintenance.
>>64660442
>>64660444>>64660435So it's primary anti ship system requires it's helicopter to either get within MANPAD range of a small surface vessel/land target OR it has two torpedoes and nothing else? It is a carrier with only one aircraft? Hopefully the enemy doesn't use advanced tactics like sending two aggressors at it at once but that shouldn't be a issue because we will just counter by sending more of these cheap and plentiful vessels right?
>>64660442>>64660460>>64660462https://www.surfpac.navy.mil/Media/News/Article/2872102/naval-strike-missile-system-now-aboard-uss-oakland-lcs-24/
>>64660444>>64660468All I'm saying is that it has a Seahawk that is capable of ASW. Do not read further into my statement than that. I am merely stating this fact. Now continue your 'tism slapfight.
>>64660468>So it's primary anti ship system requires it's helicopter to either get within MANPAD range of a small surface vessel/land targetWhere did you get that idea?>Hopefully the enemy doesn't use advanced tactics like sending two aggressors at it at once Why are you offended that a corvette isn't designed to take on the entire PLAN at once?>but that shouldn't be a issue because we will just counter by sending more of these cheap and plentiful vessels right?They are fairly cheap for what they can do at only $500m apiece fully equipped with all government-furnished equipment and their mission module. They should be more plentiful than they are.
>>64660557>Where did you get that idea?He's never heard of sensor-sharing.
>>64660557>They are fairly cheap for what they can do at only $500m apiece fully equippedThat's massively expensive for a minesweeper/patrol boat.
