I don't understand Underwater Firearms-have they ever actually been used in anger? Is it just a case of wanting to fulfill a role that might come up no matter how rare? Is it Russia/Soviet Union showing off and saying "yes we have hi-tech equipment too"
They're mostly made for losers like that creep who recently posted about fish making him impotent in front of the other swimmers.
>>64661098>have they ever actually been used in anger?No.>Is it just a case of wanting to fulfill a role that might come up no matter how rare?Yes.>Is it Russia/Soviet Union showing off and saying "yes we have hi-tech equipment too"Yes.
>>64661098Not in a manner that has ever been made public. Security of docked warships is something that used to be taken extremely seriously during the cold war (more so than just having MPs block access on land). I recall there was British frogman that got hired to inspect the bottoms of some soviet ship, and was later found in pieces, and the theory was that his soviet frogman counterparts had caught him in the act.>Is it Russia/Soviet Union showing off and saying "yes we have hi-tech equipment too"Several western militarys had the P11 in inventory, it wasn't just a soviet concern, though there is no public record of them being fired in anger either.
>>64661098>Is it Russia/Soviet UnionKind of. The Russians have a historic and irrational fear of frogmen. Literally nothing was done to them by divers of any nation at any point, but there was a constant paranoia of underwater saboteurs in the Vatnik Union. In fact, "sabotage" was a meme in early Lenin's time - if something bad happened or something didn't go according to plan, "sabotage" was blamed and usually some clueless innocent was NKVD'd to the gulags or to the dirt.My personal theory is that this cultural meme was combined with the manly masochism they saw the US Seals performing, and said frogman paranoia was born.
>>64661148Forgot my central point. Because they're so afraid of frogmen, they poured resources rces into their own froggers and propaganda around them. Also the dolphins. Rapists get along together.
>>64661120Good post. Any idea what the source could be for the frogman story?
>>64661120>>64661232Nta but I've heard that there was an M16 diver who dissapperared around a Soviet ship in British waters. I also heard that the SBS killed a man on a riverbank with the p11 but I can confirm neither of these stories
>>64661148They probably read Rogue Warrior and really liked it.
The incident occurred while the Soviet ship was visiting and anchored in the UK, so it was unlikely to have been an explosive device or a screw accident.
>>64661303>it was unlikely to have been an explosive device or a screw accident.How is it MORE likely that communist frogmen dismembered a Bong frog (hehehehe) than the diver being chop-suey'd by the propeller of the ship who's belly he was trying photograph for his hentai folder?
>>64661098You can strap them to a dolphin and see what happens.
>>64661309His officer believed that it was an accident, if wikipedia is to be believed.>Crabb's MI6 officer Nicholas Elliott always took the view that Crabb had suffered equipment failure, or his health had given way, and that his reputation had been unfairly dragged through the mud.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Crabb#Death_by_misadventure
>>64661232hell be talking about buster crabb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Crabb
>>64661362Crabb should never have been called upon to take part and the whole operation was an absolute shitshow that MI6 should still be ashamed of.
>>64661148It's rational to fear frogmen if your fleet spends that much time in port.
What were they planning to investigate in the murky waters at night, when lights and cameras would likely be impossible to use?
>>64661098They're the kind of weapon we will never hear about if they get used or not, as they are only used for classified sneaky pete shit
>>64661098Bringing a gun to a knife fight is their role.
>>64661098>have they ever actually been used in anger? Maybe? I think they are probably meant in response to an underwater attack, attempted sabotage, or other intrusion, though. Not so much offensives, because infantry offensives with divers would be comically impractical.A team of frogmen could be doing guard rounds at a naval base to ensure that nobody comes and spies or fucks something up, and if they encounter someone, aha, draw and fire!>Is it just a case of wanting to fulfill a role that might come up no matter how rare? Kinda. I think that during the Cold War, there probably actually were at least a handful of engagements underwater between opposing frogmen, because spooks have probably gone diving around naval bases and shit to collect information or commit sabotage, and thus there needed to exist some sort of defensive measure for that, even if that might not actually happen very often. Unlikely to have happened never, but not exactly a daily or even yearly occurrence either, but you just gotta be prepared.So a basic dart pistol which will function underwater, and give you at least 20ft of range or so, can just go on the frogman's belt, and if he ever finds himself having to intercept an enemy frogman, it's something he could employ, even if that's probably uncommon.>Is it Russia/Soviet Union showing off and saying "yes we have hi-tech equipment too"In large part, yes. They put a lot of effort into developing their underwater assault rifle, but supposedly they found them to not actually be very necessary, and they don't get issued widely. Don't take my word for that part though, I could be dead wrong.
>>64661120>though there is no public record of them being fired in anger eitherKeeping it hushed is strategically preferable, if the public doesn't know it, then it's more likely that your enemy doesn't know what exactly happened either.>>64661148>The Russians have a historic and irrational fear of frogmenPerhaps they vastly overestimated the size and scope of it, and spent more resources and development than necessary, but I don't think that a navy would be irrational to be wary of enemy frogmen and take precautionary measures against them.If your country has a navy, then there's some shit which needs to be kept secret, and if your country also has enemies, then that means that there could be a time where such an enemy will try to spy on your navy's more sensitive aspects to gauge your defense and offense, or outright even attempt to sabotage it.Like the other guy said, various NATO and other western navies had stuff like the H&K P11 pistol in inventory, and they have largely kept quiet as fuck about that. Germany still considers the P11 pistol a state secret and H&K will not acknowledge it or tell you anything about it at all.Consider how things like submarine propeller profiles are kept concealed and are classified information, now consider how someone may try to find that information out, and also how you may have to guard it.>>64661362>>64661383>MI6 recruited Crabb in 1956 to investigate the Soviet cruiser Ordzhonikidze that had brought the First Secretary of the Communist Party Nikita Khrushchev and Soviet Premier Nikolai Bulganin on a diplomatic mission to Britain.[7] According to Peter Wright in his book Spycatcher (1987), Crabb was sent to investigate Ordzhonikidze's propeller, a new design that Naval Intelligence wanted to examine. On 19 April 1956, Crabb dived into Portsmouth Harbour and his MI6 controller never saw him again.And here's a real life example. Probably happened vice versa as well.
>>64661443Probably. Probably, it's also not the only time that a NATO spy has been sent to ogle or maybe even fuck with Eastern Bloc naval equipment, and rather, the reason this story is known about is because it was an embarrassing fuckup.>>64661600Contrary to memes, a gun can often give you a tremendous advantage over a knife.Not 100% of the time, because of concepts like the 21f rule existing, but there's many where it gives you a much easier win.Therefore, it'd be good to have one underwater, just in case.
>Official British government documents regarding Crabb's disappearance are not scheduled to be released until 2057.[28]Do you guys think that stuff would actually tell of anything remarkable?>Various people speculated that Crabb had been killed by some secret Soviet underwater weapon; that he had been captured and imprisoned in Lefortovo Prison with prisoner number 147, that he had been brainwashed to work for the Soviet Union to train their frogman teams; that he had defected and become a commander in the Soviet Navy under the assumed name of Leonid Krabov;[29]>Leonid KrabovLMAO
>>64661148>The Russians have a historic and irrational fear of frogmen.Yeah, the real threat is Japanese torpedo boats.
>>64661098>>64661148Bioshock 3 looks dope, bro.
