- Three 64-cell Mark 41 VLS banks- One CPS hypersonic launch bank- Two 21-cell RAM launchers- Two high power lasers- Four SEWIP Block III modules- One railgun- Two Mark 45 guns- Outsized SPY-6 arrayshttps://x.com/navalnewscom/status/2003240361662251213?s=20
>>64668181We are so back
>>64668181- Will be cancelled in 2029
One man circus.
How large it is compared to the Gerald Ford, Ticonderoga and average DDG?
>>64668181>Three 64-cell Mark 41 VLS banksFake news, and also awful even if it was true. It's far worse.
This thing would have to be nuclear powered AND probably cost $10-12B per boat.not to mention, the last 80 years of naval doctrine has been leading to distributed sensors, piling all your sensors into a single hull along with all your missiles, goes directly against what we've been trying to do for the last 2 decades.
>>64668199spbp
>>64668181you guys like gold?
>>64668181>- Three 64-cell Mark 41 VLS banksOkay I guess. But why not two Burkes instead?>- One CPS hypersonic launch bankWhy not build two Zumwalts instead?>- Two 21-cell RAM launcherswhy?>- Two high power lasersWon't make it to production>- Four SEWIP Block III modulesOkay I guess>- One railgunWHY?>- Two Mark 45 gunsWhy?>- Outsized SPY-6 arraysIt's literally the same version as the BurkeWhat fucking retard specced this piece of shit out?
>>64668210>35k t >crew of 650-850>20-25 hulls not a single of them will be built
>>64668210>Class size 20-25 shipsSo, 2-2.5?
>>64668210>crew 650-850isn't that way too fucking much?
>>64668224Literally he did. Unironically. See: >>64668218
If the lead ship is Defiance, wouldn't it be the Defiance-class?
>>64668233This is DDG(X) now apparently
>>64668218I thought that line was a joke of an anon...
>>64668242Of course he didn't, do you really think he knows what a RAM launcher is?
>>64668224>>- Outsized SPY-6 arrays>It's literally the same version as the BurkeThere is a proposed 69RMA version (the Burke version has 37RMAs), but a 69 RMA array would be 22 feet in diameter per array (37RMA version is 14 feet), and you'd need four arrays for 360-degree coverage, which would necessitate a massive superstructure it could still probably fit, but they would be massive and require a fuck ton of power and would be a massive radiation source when turned on. >>64668239Iowa class had a crew of ~1800 in the 1980s.
>>64668212>goes directly against what the neocons and democraps have been doing for 20 yearsIt must be a good idea then
>>64668218No, no, you misheard. He said "Pathetic person."
>>64668181Given the current state of the world, would it be better to make like a ship that can fight drone swarms and protect fleets from cruise missiles?
>>64668247Oh, so 0 will be built. Got it.>>64668252I'm aware, but this won't have it.https://www.goldenfleet.navy.mil/
>>64668250He was probably told in short words and then asked for them.
>>64668245Lead ship of the Legend class is USS Bertholf.
>>64668212you mean the same navy leadership that lets furry suits on ships and trannies into the SEALs?
>>64668264Lol LMAO even this dog shit is even worse than Flight III burke, but has 3 times the displacement? What the fuck...28 Mk41 VLS cells?12 CPS missiles?37RMA SPY6?Flight III burke can do 96 Mk41 VLS cells and also has a 37RMA SPY6. And the propsed DDG(X) was going to be ~12,000 tons that would've had room for 12 CPS missiles and the 96 VLS cells of the burkes. Why exactly is this thing 30,000 tons?
>>64668224>- One railgun>WHY?So it can do the shore bombardment stuff the Zumwalt never delivered on and the Burke has proven inept at.
>>64668281The navy had no role in this ship and it's fucking obvious, the renders on the "golden fleet" website look like someone who has ZERO idea about modern naval surface combatants had an AI come up with something impressive looking with ZERO actual relevance to actual naval strategic needs.
>>64668287>never delivered onBecause they cancelled and then scrapped the rail gun. And the Advanced Gun System was a cope replacement that couldn't do the job because lol lmao shore distance.
>>64668273Shouldn't it be the Bertholf class?
>>64668259That's not how war procurement works retard. Even neocons have a vested insterest in a strong navy.
>>64668282The solid gold hull if MAGA renders are to be believed.
>>64668300The US Coast Guard uses thematic naming for the classes they operate instead of the lead ship rule that is most traditional.
>>64668287Zumwalt's gun worked and had a longer range than a 32MJ railgun would. But it doesn't matter because naval gunfire support is irrelevant.
>>64668317>The US Coast Guardfake and gey
>>64668282>28 Mk41 VLS cells?A Mark 41 launcher is a block of 8 cells. 28x8=224.
>>64668329Navy says no: >>64668210
>>64668298They scrapped the 32 MJ railgun because it didn't offer advantages over traditional artillery and they decided that the 64 MJ railgun was infeasible. It would literally make more sense to put the AGS on a new ship.
>>64668181Looks like something a 12yr old came up with.
>>64668362Navy says yes: >>64668264
>>64668287repeat after meNAVAL GUNFIRE SUPPORT IS RETARDEDNAVAL GUNFIRE SUPPORT IS RETARDEDNAVAL GUNFIRE SUPPORT IS RETARDEDif you can get in range of your stupid fuckfuck gun you can get in range of conventional guns (and are fighting literal tribal militias at this point)in all other scenarios you should be using missiles and, in more permissive environments bombs tossed by aircraft
>>64668373NAVAL GUNFIRE SUPPORT IS R-R...REQUIRED
>>64668376FUCK YOU CONGRESSMAN REEEEEEEEEE
The two 127 mm are in prime position to get ripped out the moment trump is gone
>6" steel armor beltlmao what the fuck are these retards smoking?6" steel wont stop any modern anti-ship missiles, this isn't WWII, you're not bouncing shells off the armor anymore, an anti-ship missile is just going to blow a hull in your 6" of steel.
NAVAL BOMBARDMENT IS BACKI KNEEL
>>64668373That the infographic calls out that it uses BAE’s HVP would I assume mean it’s meant in large part for low cost air and missile defense.
>>64668181Could they not have got somebody to do slightly better CGI renderings for this?
>>64668264>https://www.goldenfleet.navy.mil/What the fuck is this website
Art when?
>>64668224>Okay I guess. But why not two Burkes instead?>Why not build two Zumwalts instead?Two Burkes or Zumwalts? Why not 7 Defiants?
>>64668388I think there is something to be said about using modern advancements in materials science to see if we can build something that allows for easier damage control, so a missile strike ends up causing a hole instead of deleting half the vessel, but building it like a 40s vessel when most attacks against the ship are going to be striking anywhere BUT the belt is a waste of tonnage.
>>64668410Is there a Hancock girl? My dad served on her in the late 1950s.
>build LCS to fight low intensity conflict and hunt submarines>scrap the ASW module>low intensity threat balloons into needing BMD defense, magazine depth, and the ability to shootdown supersonic missiles over the horizon>develop the constellation to have all the abilities and actually have ASW equipment this time>cancel it>procure cutter with same armament as LCS and still now ASW equipment>design meme supreme commander ass cruiser with features specifically designed to stroke one mans egothe USN is so fucking over holy shit
>>64668262>Given the current state of the world, would it be better to make like a ship that can fight drone swarms and protect fleets from cruise missiles?They'd probably need a laser or two for that.
>>64668291>The navy had no role in this ship and it's fucking obvious,Hell yeah, this somebitch looks badass.
>>64668373>NAVAL GUNFIRE SUPPORT IS RETARDED>NAVAL GUNFIRE SUPPORT IS RETARDED>NAVAL GUNFIRE SUPPORT IS RETARDEDWhat is it like to hate having fun?
>>64668181Add Tridents
>>64668388>>6" steel armor belt>lmao what the fuck are these retards smoking?>6" steel wont stop any modern anti-ship missiles, this isn't WWII, you're not bouncing shells off the armor anymore, an anti-ship missile is just going to blow a hull in your 6" of steel.It's not to stop missiles, retard. It's to look fucking sweet when they turn on the laser lights. It's a different kinda belt.
>2 gun turretsWouldn't more SM-2s make more sense?>inb4 they want to spam HVPs but kvetch at the costwhy not just one center gun with peripheral VLS cells on either side?Sea power taught me guns don't mean shit in naval combat in the missile age, VLS magazine depth and detection range is the only thing that matters.
Chinks are probably shutting themselves right now kek I wonder if they’ll try to build their own battleship >>64668421>cruiserIt’s 850 feet long this thing is a full on battleship
I'd rather we put this money into the missile production base, since we can't even make enough missiles for our current fleet of burkes, let alone a new class that plans to add even more VLS cells that need to be filled.
>>64668421Not to mention constant delays on the Columbia class boomers. You don’t have to be a thirdie to wonder what the fuck is wrong with US naval procurement
>>64668454Worst case scenario drone swarm stuff maybe? I know we just tested the shahed clone off an LCS, and Houthi type stuff probably only becomes more common, so it’s a concern in both peer fights and policing missions
>>64668181>first of the Trump-class will be called USS DefiantWhy? Doesn't that break naming conventions? If it's the first of the Trump-class, shouldn't it be called USS Trump?
stupid people are in charge
they will never get built and we all know why, what a complete waste of time.
>>64668442Putting a railgun anywhere near the water is just stupid. The ideal use case for a railgun would be the mountain batteries in Taiwan. Relatively low air density, would gain kinetic energy from the elevation difference, but most importantly the rails would only need to be replaced every twenty shots instead of four.
>>64668478Trump would literally commit suicide if the future cancelled naval project that's named after him gets predictably canceled before USS Trump gets finished and sent to scrap
>>64668421>low intensity threat balloons into needing BMD defense, magazine depth, and the ability to shootdown supersonic missiles over the horizonThat's not low-intensity.And still no one EVER has an answer for what to do about mines if not for the LCS.
>get in
>>64668478Because it's not going to be built.But it will force others to push forward an actual new Destroyer designHe has done this shit non-stop for 2 terms now and people still don't learn.
>>64668497dudeyou're actually retarded get help
>>64668477Its not (just) a clone. It actually has some pretty neat improvements.
>>64668461Ah I see someone was in the other thread and is finally waking up. Good.
>>64668210Is the CWIS dead?
>>64668499>its' real saar!okay brown.
>>64668514nolearn to read.the anon I was replying to thinks this is 4D trumpchess rather than a delusional decrepit fool being manipulated by morons
>>64668512ram has been replacing ciws for awhile now
>>64668497>overmatch briefs are really attempts by the state dept to psyop congress into providing moar funding>procurement announcements are really attempts by potus to psyop "others" into pushing for a new ddg designSo wt what point do we stop psyoping each other and actually just build something? I feel this monkey train has run its course.
>>64668497I hope you're not implying this is some calculated 5D chess move. He's a senile retard and wants a big battleship with guns because he thinks its cool.It'll get shelved after he loses the midterms.
>>64668497>He has done this shit non-stop for 2 terms now and people still don't learn.>But it will force others to push forward an actual new Destroyer designpfft
it's the 3rd reich all over again. Rubio was coked out of his mind at a recent press conference too.bunch of loser druggies in charge
>>64668497This will probably happen but it's not 5D chess. He and his admin are complete retards. The Trump super battleship cruiser is literally an elongated DDG(X) with more dakka. No doubt dreamt up after Trump saw everyone clowning on the USN over the Constellation class. All to be forgotten when Trump moves on to the next current thing.
>>64668247>DDG(X) cancelledAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHOh lord, this is fucking funny. The Navy has made this one ship building program that, due to the failure of DD21, CG(X), LCS, and FFG(X), has become a no fail delivery. And now they just fucking junk it! All that pissed away because some senile pedo wants "battleships"! I'm literally laughing out loud.>>64668210Honestly, I'd take the Type 55 just for the simple fact that there will be more than two of them.
>>64668563why is this greek
>>64668218Yes ya pus
>>64668564Do you really think the Navy WANTED to junk DDG(X)?They're essentially being threatened with their careers if they don't go along with this buffoonery.
>>64668483>Putting a railgun anywhere near the water is just stupid. The ideal use case for a railgun would be the mountain batteries in Taiwan. Relatively low air density, would gain kinetic energy from the elevation difference, but most importantly the rails would only need to be replaced every twenty shots instead of four.Why not both? We got that tariff money now and stopped paying for transsexual abortions.
>>64668578Fuck them. They could have just talked about procurement timelines until he fell asleep at the table and forgot. Or jangled some keys in his face. These retards are going to let the Ticos and Flight I Burkes retire without replacement. This is fucking golden.
>>64668591I think they're hoping he'll either die before it gets far enough long to where it can't be killed, or the shipbuilders will come back and tell the government it's a retarded design, they won't build it. But considering they like money, I doubt they'll have the balls for that.
what a timeline to live through
Trump wants to be the Czar so badly. >Wants to say "Everything is great" and have people will believe it>Wants everything in gold>Wants to be known as a military genius>Wants to lose a naval war against an Asian nation
>>64668604Don't forget>wants everything named after him>except for the first ship in the class of ship named after him>for reasons
>>64668497You retards will never admit you backed a senile old nag
>>64668218I love how he told the navy that their ships are gay and stealth is fake.
OkayBut who is going to be building it?
>>64668598>before it gets far enough long to where it can't be killedZumwalt and Constellation were killed during construction and LCS is being cancelled retroactively as they retire ships super early. For the United States Navy, it's never too late to cancel your ship building program. It's literally all they know how to do anymore.
>>64668604Also wants to literally put his name on everything.Honestly even if you like the guy I don't get how you can see that as anything but incredibly tacky and kind of disrespectful.>>64668607Maybe he doesn't want it confused with the CV if/when he gets one. Kinda surprised he hasn't tried to get CVN-81 or -82 changed.
>>64668247So now the Navy will get NOTHING until the current gaggle of retards leave office and a new administration can try to convince Congress to fund shipbuilding (again). All because the current POTUS keeps inserting himself into naval design. Japan and South Korea, please hold the line until we're done getting the shit out of our system.
>>64668260not to mention the heckin small hands
>>6466861930k ton cruisers are the future of naval design
>>64668613Doesn't really add up since the carrier would have his full name. So USS Donald J. Trump (CVN) and USS Trump (BB(X?)
WE BUILT FIFTY FUCKING CASABLANCA ESCORT CARRIERS IN * TWO YEARS * IN WW2ALL LAID OUT AND COMMISSIONED IN TWO FUCKING YEEEEEAAAARRSSSSSSSSSF I F T Y why is it so hard to build anything now
>>64668630Obesity
>>64668201Supposedly "bigger than any battleship the US has ever built", which means it should at least 48k tons to outmass an Iowa
>>64668630They were lightly built shitboxes with nothing in the way of advanced systems. Building an empty hull isn’t the difficult part of shipbuilding, it’s shoving it full of all the systems it needs to be worthwhile, making sure they all play together well, and making sure they won’t break down as soon as you go to sea or start firing your weapons
>>64668636How many movie theaters?
>>64668630Carriers back then were basically tankers with flat tops. I don't know if you've noticed but there've been some advances since.
>>64668625Then they better be joined with many more uncrewed-vessels that can put missiles into the air to create defense screens. Because a few large ships by themselves are not going to cover all the areas needed. And as of right now: there's no frigate design coming anytime soon, the Ticos are on the way out, there's little use for the LCSs, and Trump demands that carriers be reworked to use steam (Obviously not going to happen but his words still cause hiccups and delays.) If they want a simplified fleet then just build Burkes since we know how and know that they work. Otherwise just look at the current naval register and that's what we're working with for the next decade.
>>64668619>All because the current POTUS keeps inserting himself into naval design.Isn't this the first? What did I miss?
>>64668645I cannot imagine anything more baffling than being some middle management officer helping oversee the shakedown of the Gerald R Ford and getting an email saying 'the President doesn't like your EM catapults and wants steam'.>>64668663Not sure how far it went in practice but in his first term he took serious issue with the new catapult systems going into new CVNs. For some reason.
>>64668645>there's little use for the LCSsBeyond retarded
>35k tonsWhy does it need to be so big? Even for 200 VLS cells that's just insane.
>>64668674I know you are but you've got to let the little crappy ships go.
>>64668685What do you propose to do about mines?
>>64668674>Why does it need to be so big?Gotta be bigger than the Kirov class. Trump doesn't want Putin to make fun of him when they're done playing a round of golf.
>>64668678They're giving it a 6" steel belt because steel doesn't melt in a fire like aluminium.LMAO god this administration is fucking retarded.
>>64668678>ivan and chang are intimidated by a Big Strong Powerful American warship ruzzian warship FUCK OFF
>>64668478>break naming conventionsThey've been broken for a while now
>>64668693Wrong post but I forgive you
>>64668488yemeni goat fuckers are firing asbm and trading blows with a whole cbg, who is lower intensity than them?
>>64668697Sheer volume and tonnage is literally how you make a ship survivable
>>64668718You're using words you don't understand.
>>64668722okay
going by this thread, the only solution is to build more Burke>anti ballistic>burke>anti submarine>burke>surface combat>burke>mine laying>burke>demining>burke>escort and patrol>burkethis is exactly the US navy mindset. everything must be as capable as the burke
>>64668630You're building a floating nuclear power station and city to support the floating airbase with a larger air wing than some countries have entire air forces.Any modern carrier is an absolute marvel really, US-style CATOBAR nuclear supercarriers even more so.Shit is hard at the best of times.
>>64668672Steam powered Fords launching dual-engine F-35s
>>64668721lmfao, no the fuck it's not especially in the modern missile age.Especially when the top of the deck is still exposed and unarmored, and the superstructure where the radars are located are never going to be armored enough to be protected against a missile.A modern antiship missile wont give a fuck about your armor especially chinese high value target missiles that are ballistic with manoeuvrable hypersonic re-entry warheads, they're not exactly going to hit the side of the ship, they're going to slam through the top. The only way these ships make ANY sense is if the administration is signaling to china we wont do a fucking thing about taiwan, since these ships would be worthless in any hot war near chinese shores, it might be useful providing air defense for guam/australia/Hawaii. So instead of F/A-XX and DDG(X) we get a bullshit "battleship" that has no place in modern naval doctrine with a peer or near-peer adversary. Sick bro.
>>64668718Those "yemeni goat fuckers" are being amply supplied by one on the major arms producers of the world. You can't have ballistic missiles and "low intensity" in the same sentence.
>>64668746Who is the US going to fight with less resources than Yemen? fishers and drug dealers in the Caribbean?
>>64668457Brother, chinks are popping off fireworks. This is a gift to them. It means no surface combatants of consequence besides the Ford, and additional Burkes, will be getting floated until deep into the 2030s.
>>64668758>are being amply supplied by one on the major arms producers of the world>less resourcesIf you aren't going to engage with me then I see no reason to engage with you. Have a nice night.
>>64668759the US is going to waste 4 years dealing with these retarded cunts, all while the slant eyed dogs are getting bolder everydayfuck we need capital punishment for this admin
>>64668181>Fat>Retarded>Useless>Wildly expensive>Actively harms US military readinessYou gotta at least give Trump credit for brand consistency
>>64668768They are being supplied by a single damaged port that we have complete supremacy over. what are you even talking about? If yemen with a gdp per capita of $500 being supplied by one port can throw up an ADAD bubble that make anything short of a full CBG fuck off then who can't?
>>64668181Even the CGI is crap and tasteless, brilliant.
>>64668645>then just build BurkesThis has been the band aid they've fallen back on after failing a half dozen programs, but it's not what they want. The Burke from a technical point of view, is maxed out. They can't add more to it and the engines can't supply enough power to do more. Like, they're physically running out of space even.From a sustainment point of view, they also can't keep building Burkes. The crew requirement is too high, which leads to crews being short staffed, overworked, and under trained. They've been desperately trying to cut manpower required on ships to reduce the op tempo. It's harming personnel retention too, leading to shortages of talent farther up the food chain. It's also inefficient as fuck and requires more maintenance.From a warfighting point of view, Burkes are too expensive and don't provide enough VLS tubes to fight effectively. They're also too expensive for the Navy to afford to build enough ships to cover what they need.
>>64668608>SAAR IT WAS HER TURN SAARokay brown.
>>64668774The rot has become completely terminal. I don't even know how you unfuck this mess, at this point. A lot of heads need to roll, then from a purely military perspective, probably buy Korean, Japanese, and Euro ships off the shelf with no more than the strictly necessary alterations for system interoperability, and pay to have them built in foreign yards and transferred to the USN. I don't see another way to give the fleet the overhaul it desperately needs in a timely fashion. Decades have been spent and the clock has finally run out.
>>64668181>wing turretsWhat is this, the 1930s?
>>64668210>navy has had chronic undermanning issues for the past 15 years>cancel the constellation class, make them build a brand new, fuck-huge ship with a crew size of 650-850how could someone even begin to unfuck navy procurement? is it even salvageable at this point?
>>64668790I know everyone would lose their minds, but buying maybe Japanese like Australia just did to get an interim replacement and allow time for a proper clean sheet program that doesn't have crippling time pressure fucking with everything seems like it'd be the way to go.Politics say it'll never happen but I think it'd be the go. US branches also seem to have a phobia of interim procurement because of the fear that Congress will say it's good enough and axe what they actually want, which isn't entirely unfounded but gets in the way.
>>64668790oh yeah and the upcoming frigate won't have vls, at least for the first flighthttps://www.twz.com/sea/navys-new-frigate-will-not-have-vertical-launch-systems-for-missilescompletely defeated the point of building a frigate in the first placesomething needs to be done, else Japan is completely alone in the fight
>>64668608you stupid europeans keep acting like his opponents were in ANY way a better choice.
>>64668800Get Korea or Japan to build the constellation class design that we spent a bazillion dollars fucking with and focus on building a normal sized DDG at home instead
unironically, having some of the carrier fleet replaced with modern battleships isn't a bad idea IF they make sure said battleships contain long range ballistic missiles. you have both carrier and strike battle groups.zumwalt could have been it, but they stopped building them.
>>64668801Its literally against the law. What I don't understand is why people keep suggesting it.
>>64668645
>>64668805>completely defeated the point of building a frigate in the first placeRetard
>>64668825you are talking about the DDG(X), which is already in the design processthis Trump class bullshit isn't it
Who wants to tell him?
>>64668181Trump designed this didn't he? He sat down with the Admiral and they went through the options list like a new car and he ticked the boxes. Super-sized the arrays. Maybe its necessary. Get something built.
>>64668806an actual, literal pile of shit would have been a better choice
>>64668833they can simply add more ballistic missiles to a modern battleship over a destroyer-sized vessel. it's not a bad idea in practice, since fighters can't sling long range ballistic missiles.trump's narcissism can be satisfied, but you also get an effective vessel.
>>64668833Brother. I have very bad news.
>>64668849damn
>>64668846it's a bad idea.subs can sling long range range ballistic missiles. subs are survivable unlike surface combatants.
>>64668674Little use because few of the planned modules actually developed. The ships themselves could be decent.>>64668788Trying to reduce required manpower is a good goal. The Zumwalts reduced it compared to Burkes. The Constellation, DDG(X) and other proposals were moving towards it too. Now we just need one of those classes to make it through development and fully realized production. Stopping and starting again is just wasting time. Even if the "Trump" class was already something outlined, the demands for more guns & armor mean back to the drawing board.
>>64668849>USNI News understandsso just fake news from some blogspam. ddg(x) still exists.
>>64668858can't wait for trump to fuck up the sub next. columbia, next gen virginia, aukus, all need a little touch from the president
>10-15 BillionYeah not gonna happen. USN is already a joke.
>>64668827Yes, but it probably shouldn't be is the point.We're talking about the ideal action if people weren't retarded, because at this point there's no way within current political and legal constraints to un-fuck things.
>>64668849>5 to 7 years to develop>not agaisnt Chinalmao, yeah OK Xi has the kompromat now
>>64668866What should the USN do about mines?
Trump must've gotten a hold of my middle school notebooks where I was sketching shit like this 20 years ago while bored in class.
>>64668897tank them like a real man
>>64668880>Yes, but it probably shouldn't be is the point.Then talk to Congress, and good luck getting them to do anything in an expedient manner if if they were so inclined.>We're talking about the ideal actionWell then it'd be "ideal" if God just magic'ed up a whole bunch of new self-repairing uber boats for the USN out of thin air.
/k/ really has been captured by reddit faggot war tourists when they say battleships are coming back and all people do is seethe in the thread.
>>64668906I'm not sure what point you think you're making. 'Change the law and do this' is not going to happen, but if everyone suddenly stopped being retarded tomorrow it'd be the clear course of action to take.>>64668916It's not even a cool battleship, anon. I could appreciate it if they were proposing a cool ship.
nigger are you serious
>>64668900Unironically that might actually be in the design for the new Trump-class and then won't you feel stupid?
>>64668918>'Change the law and do this' is not going to happenYes, that is my argument.
>>64668906then switch to subs if you cannot match china's surface fleet
>>64668923...huh?
>>64668918>128 VLS cells>Explicitly stated to be nuclear armed>Possible railgun>Possible DEW>Osprey compatible landing deck>Largest US surface combatant since WWIIIf this was announced in 2015 people would be cumming their pants, but its not cool because what? it's missing 16-18" guns? yea ok
>>64668475Columbia isn't really doing that bad programmatically, people just like to doom about it for clicks. All modules of the submarine are in Groton for final assembly. There's still a lot of risk but compared to the rest of the shipbuilding industry the submarine sector has its head screwed on better than anyone else. But I dread what will happen when the Commander-in-Cheeto starts backseat designing submarines too.
maybe it's time to put the money in the drone basket huha swarm of USV and UUV, packed with absurd amount of VLS and torpedo, all under the management of a destroyer
>>64668938>But I dread what will happen when the Commander-in-Cheeto starts backseat designing submarines too.thank you for the expert analysis dunning-kruger-san
it must be like the Fuhrer Bunker in the White House.walls closing in on insane leader, minions all playing along but mostly looking for exit plans, but trying to do some last minute grifting.If this is an attempt to fake out Red China....announce something really stupid in hopes they were also do something stupid, I don't think it will work.
>>64668937If the renders are anything close to the ship as it sails, it's pretty ugly. If you're telling me you're building an honest to god battleship in 2025 it needs to make the eight year old in me making cannon noises with toys happy if I'm going to be able to appreciate it. The railgun is cool if they actually manage it, and laser defences are inherently cool but those are also planned for other ships if/when they become viable.Basically, I think it's dumb as an actual project and I also think it wouldn't be very interesting as a boss in Ace Combat. If it makes you hard then I'm happy for you but it's not doing much for me right now.
>>64668282It's a typo. Thank the USN PAs who created and approved that slide. Elsewhere, it's listed as 128 cells.
>>64668475> what the fuck is wrong with US naval procurementCongress. It’s Congress. It’s always Congress.
>>64668746>You can't have ballistic missiles and "low intensity" in the same sentence.Wellcon into the Year 2025 boomer. It's not desert storm anymore.Even lowest adversaries have thermals and precision weapons now.
>>64668937No its not cool because of DRUMPFH and KEGSBREATH!!!!you need to be like modern /k/ which supports common sense gun control and palestine
>>64668981nigger please, i'm so tiredyou do know that you don't have to force yourself to suck their cock right?
>>64668981Not being the niggerbitch doesn't mean he's not a lolcow. Trump's biggest flaw is that he is TERRIBLE at communicating to skeptical audiences. And I don't even mean convincing them, I mean explaining what he's trying to do without using completely inappropriate terminology like blockade or battleship.
>>64668952We're talking about a man who thinks boats sink if you put batteries on them because batteries are "too heavy". You want someone like that being able to drum up shipbuilding programs on an ego-driven whim? I don't.
if they actually build the ship and it works, it'll be better than wasting billions and not building a ship in my opinion.but im guessing the navy will navy and waste billions not building a ship.
>>64668181>Three 64-cell Mark 41 VLS banksGod i hate this retarded earth. Imagine wasting money on this shit instead of just stand off torpedos
>>64668287Same reason as the Mk 45s: kinetic AAA to work in tandem with the laser cannons. If something's within range of your guns and lasers, it's too close and needs to die quickly.Now is it worth the expense of deploying an operational railgun? I dunno. At the very least, it might be worth it to experiment with one, but if there's anything that you could get away with tossing from this design, it's probably the railgun.
>>64668973Oh good, still shit tho.Identical radar to Flight III burke12 CPS missiles32 more Mk41 VLS cells than a Flight III burke~25,000 tons heavier than a Flight III burkeAnd the administration already admits it'll be $5B (which is a joke) when a Flight III burke right now is only around $2.5B. So we're paying 2 Flight III burkes for 1.33 burkes' worth of power in a package 3x as large. And realistically it'll cost $7-10B because it's fucking massive and brand new, so now we're looking at 2.5-4x more expensive than a single burke, for barely more utility/firepower than a single burke.
>>64669005>he doesn’t know
>>64669004Given how hard it apparently is to design and build a frigate, I would be shocked if this managed a timely turnaround.There's also manpower issues, no good building the ship if you can't crew it. If the USN is stuck with Burkes into the future I can't see them being able to scrape together crews for a fleet of these things.
By the time this gets built (if) it'll be watered down to a fat ddg(x)
>>64669015just redirect the spics that ICE takes and send them to man the boat. we'll come up with a new name for shanghaid.
>>64668990>>64668997>Saar! I used term nigger and niggerbitch saar!Brown
>>64668937it wouldn't have been cool in 2015 either maybe 2005
>>64669015Don't worry, we'll just import H1B Indians to crew them all, the US Navy deserves only the best and brightest!
>>64668805lmao
>>64669025Hey, he kept his promise. I got tired of winning.
>>64668581>Tariff money About that anon https://bipartisanpolicy.org/report/deficit-tracker/
>>64669008>And the administration already admits it'll be $5Blies»Mark Montgomery, a former rear admiral who is senior director at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, criticized the Golden Fleet plan as “exactly what we don’t need,” and noted that each new battleship will cost at least $5 billion.»Montgomery is not part of the admin.
Americans are so fucking retarded holy shitremember you voted for this guy
>>64668946>maybe it's time to put the money in the drone basket huh>a swarm of USV and UUVYou realize this is the LCS, right? All those things you want were pioneered and are maturing as part of the LCS program.
>>64668977No
>>64669008>its another episode of "the only thing that matters in naval doctrine is MoAr vLs!!!!1!"
>>64668968>it looksit's a military vessel, not a fashion accessory. who gives a fuck what a 33,000 ton nuclear armed tool looks like.
>>64669008Meanwhile, Zumwalt carries the same 12 CPS missiles, and while it only has 80 VLS cells, at a cost of $3.5B it's the same price per tube of this thing at $5.5B. And let's be honest, it'll cost even more than that. Plus Zumwalt is a known value unlike an entirely new category of capital ship, and isn't a developmental dead end like the Burke. Restarting Zumwalt is the obvious course forward, all it needs is an updated radar and it will be every bit the warship of the future in 2026 that it was in 1996.
>>64669049you realize LCS was cancelled?
>>64669060>it's not a fashion accessory[Citation needed]
>>64669060I do when we're talking about if it's cool or not, which is different from if it's a good project or not. Follow a conversation.
>>64669060>who gives a fuck«Trump has for years advocated for revamping the U.S. fleet of warships, which he has said are “terrible-looking” and covered in rust.»
>>64668672EMALS had some serious teething issues that took years to (mostly) work out. However, by the time Trump heard about it, the real problem with the Ford was the AAG. Oh, and the weapons elevator. So, there was an issue, but his information was a little old.
>>64669064Unfortunately it wasn't. They're completing the planned 50-55 ship procurement with a third, even worse, class of LCS.
>>64669039Yes but this entire program is a political tool, not something the navy cooked up, any number they're throwing out is a political number meant to sell the ship to congress and it's the administration's ship, not the navy's.
>>64669069The real issue here is your idea of cool is form over function, which is in fact lame. The govt doesn't buy military hardware because it looks "cool". They buy it because it does a job.
>>64668181With that kind of size, It's designed to intercept a barrage of hypersonic missiles and ICBMs, and enough firepower to delete a chink carrier strike group by itself. Chinks are scared of this dreadnought
>>64669095it's designed for massive delays, cost overruns, personal enrichment for Trump and his guys, only to come into service with maybe 2 units to then get sent to the bottom of the sea by a dozen 055s
>>64669094Anon you're not going to brow-beat me into changing my mind here. Aesthetically I find it unappealing on its face. In function I'm not particularly impressed. If I found that function more impressive, I may find the form more appealing in turn. I do understand the appeal of an ugly beast that does a job well, or the happiest VTOL ever built.I already went over all of these things. I do not find it appealing as a project or as a cool toy.Also jesus christ this new capcha is cancer, it expires so fucking fast.
>>64669095>It's designedit doesn't exist outside of the half-assed slides they released, and the design requirements for those was "impress a senile retard"
>>64669015The frigate issue is they don’t want a frigate, they want another Burke but somehow half the cost. Every redesign is to make the frigate into more of a Burke, until it gets to the point that it has approached the cost and dimensions of a Burke, but does not have the capability because it grew out of a frigate. The program is then cancelled until and a new one spun up to share the same fate. I’m more optimistic about this program than any of the frigate attempts because they’re gold plating it from the start and aren’t deluding themselves about cost savings or efficiency. It’s pure and simple excess with the mission statement of being able to kill anything else afloat, which is much easier to sell to Congress than a half full grab bag of Burke missions where nobody can decide what all deserves a place inside the bag.
>>64669094>form over functionYou'll get neither and like it!
>>64668789That's not the own you think it is at this point. At least the browns didn't vote for a retard that wants to be a third world dictator.
>>64669101>with the mission statement of being able to kill anything else afloatthere's no mission.
>>64668181Remember when i said that they chose the name "F-47" either to fellate Donalds ego or because he wanted it named after himself, and you said i had TDS?
>>64668688A cheaper mine clearing ship, most on the market are less than half the price of a LCS.
>>64668733Sadly, yeah, what a fucking shitshow.
>>64669101We already have that mission covered, it's called an aircraft carrier.
>>64668181Not sure about the wing turrets. They look like the main gun is going to clip one trying to shoot to the rear and blast it off the ship. They should have them centreline (possibly in a twin mount) which would keep them out of the way of the other guns and be able to shoot over both sides with all guns rather than have some unable to shoot at something because the ship is always in the way. Also not sure how the rear VLS is going to fit in the same place as the helicopter hangar (which it might not have to be fair - just the flight deck). The lasers in the middle have very bad firing arcs. They should be able to see and so shoot as far around as possible and right now they are kind of sitting in a hole (I assume that they are quite light weight and non deck penetrating which should mean you can mount them quite high up and clear of the clutter). On top of the helicopter hangar instead of the VLS there would be a good place to put one as it has a clear view of the rear and both sides with another one on top of the bridge or something like that. The VLS from the rear can go in the "hole" because it doesn't care about firing arcs launching vertically. Overall though it looks pretty decent assuming that's something like the real ship and not something some fanboy dreamt up.
just buy chinese lol
>>64669101>The program is then cancelled until and a new one spun up to share the same fate.Nope, the new one has a different fate: start with a maritime enforcement cutter, change nothing, end up with a maritime enforcement cutter worse in every way than the Navy's existing corvette and yet inexplicably called a frigate.
>
>>64669122heh
>>64669106Sure there is. They want a big hull with growth potential that has enough firepower that they can justify making a couple of them the center of a strike group. >>64669116Between this and the constant F/A-XX delays it’s clear that at least this administration is pretty bearish on carriers. I’m spitballing but I imagine that one part fear of masses anti ship missiles and another part carrier intervention not having the desired result against the Houthis. >>64669117On one of the higher res renders it appears there is another vls amidships by the lasers. I’m not sure about the 5” gun positions but I’m guessing fear of drone swarms has them worried they might need a gun pointed in more than one direction at once
>>64669144>not having the desired result against the Houthis.It worked fine. They stopped. Mission accomplished. Shipping and insurance companies are just skittish bastards that take time to work back up. Are they legitimately just reading Al Jazeera up there?
>>64669064The LCS is "cancelled" like the Ticonderoga got cancelled.
>>64669094Its function fucking sucks too, though.
>>64669144>I’m guessing fear of drone swarms has them worried they might need a gun pointed in more than one direction at onceThis is very likely their reasoning. Being able to defend the ship from attack from all angles at once. It is an inefficient setup though and even with all centreline guns the turrets don't all have to be pointing at the same target or even over the same side.
>>64669113Where? Who? When?
>>64669119>end up with a maritime enforcement cutter worse in every way than the Navy's existing corvette and yet inexplicably called a frigatethe lcs faggots will never shut up if this happens
>>64668181Are those VF-2s from Macross II up above the fleet? They literally put Macross mecha in the fucking CGI. My sides are destroyed.
>>64669177It's happening now, anon. I can't possibly fathom why the Navy thinks that trading $300m and mission module compatibility for a couple of shipping containers full of missiles on a slow and unsurvivable hull is worthwhile, but it's happening.
>>64669155They continued attacking ships after the agreement with them, it really wasn’t a success. Houthis will probably continue to be a problem until someone give the UAE backing to behave in Yemen like they do in Sudan. >>64669173I agree, it’s a far cry from the diamond gun arrangement on our WWII cruisers in terms of coverage and efficiency. I’d hope if this makes it far enough to get a finalized design that they come up with something better, since the renders did seem a bit slapdash.
I ask again:Who is going to be building these?
>>64669204i am
Never thought I'd write this sentence, but the wattage on that batteship's laser battery seems underpowered.
>>64669204Probably Huntington Ingalls, but Bath Ironworks might be able to.
>>64668181I bet Trump will cancelling the remaining USS Ford class carriers in favor of his Trump class BB all because the 7th ship will definitely be named USS Obama and we know how much Trump hates him
It should be illegal to hold public office over the age of 70, prove me wrong.
The wumao are seething so hard.
I read this shit 2 hours ago and I'm still laughing
>>64669217HII has all its large shipyards busy with the Fords. They can't unless we want to push back the carriers.Bath Iron doesn't have large enough facilities.Remember that these are going to be giant ships, you can't just bang them together in a Burke yard.
>>64669250just make them in 2 smaller halves then jam them together.
>>64669231Mate they are celebrating, this is an awful ship to replace the DDG(X)
>>64669220Doubtful, they aren't even going to lay the keel until after he is out of office.
>>64669252Ah yes, what could possibly go wrong with that.
>>64668181I want this back
>>64669118S-300 tier air defense lmao. the same missile that failed to shoot down a single Israeli aircraft during the 12-day war
>>64669231The Chinese people love their friend, Comrade Nation Builder, and wish him long life and many years of prosperity.
>>64669262https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj-15O-BTDw
>>64669261several things if not done right just like any other ship
>>64669231Bugmen are afraid. The Trump class dreadnoughts will most likely be nuclear-powered, and it'll be the most heavily armed surface ships ever built. That mofo is scary
>>64669231Trump has been the best gift they've gotten in years. Someone who alienates US allies and who is easily manipulated, Xi blew smoke up his ass with "I promise I won't do anything while you're in office." and Cheeto Chamberlain took that as making peace. Simultaneously preaching American strength while ending every program that tries to make advancements.
>>64669250>They can't unless we want to push back the carriers.Current retirement timelines of in-service carriers and current carrier building pace already has the carrier fleet drop in size down to 6.Cutting down further on carrier build rates would push that down even further.
>>64669274Turbine plus diesel per the Navy’s website
>>64669274>most heavily armed surface ships ever builtThey have less weapons than a Type 055. Only 128 VLS cells, a 055 has 112 - but they're twice the size. You would need 224 US VLS cells to match a 055.Additionally it seems US hypersonics are inferior, given they need a 2.2m virginia payload module to fit into, while the chinese have 1500km hypersonics in an 0.85m VLS cell.The lasers and railguns will all be cancelled since they're unworkable fantasy weapons and 5" guns are more decorations than anything else. You can tell from the highy impractical mounting.Frankly it is baffling how underarmed these are. 35k tons displacements, and less weapons than a 13k ton ship? What the fuck are they using the space for?It must be burger king and star bucks on rubber shock mounts to survive missile impacts so the crew is never starved of high fructose corn syrup.Another such announcement for me to read and I might suffocate laughing.
>>64669288The lowest will be 10. Where the fuck do you get 6 from
>>64669302>[retarded chink shits]
>they are seething!!
>>64669302The 35k ton design will leave margin to add additional weapons, including directed energy, the nuclear-armed sea-launched cruise missile and potentially a 32 Megajoule rail gun
>>64669257>imblyingI have personally donated 50 more dollars to Trump reelection fund. The Constitution said he cannot serve more than 2 CONSECUTIVE terms, not just 2 terms. Watch the Supreme Court validate my interpretation.
>>64669319Sure, and also a compartment of mechas, shield generator and a team of water benders.
>>64669308>The lowest will be 10. Where the fuck do you get 6 fromSome office of the navy extrapolation of current struggles to get shit build in time.I didn't bookmark it, just read it a while ago and remembered the number.
>>64669310Sir, please keep your copium mask in place at all times.
>>64668968> it needs to make the eight year old in me making cannon noises with toys happy if I'm going to be able to appreciate it. Oh come on, the first video of thing going full speed on that nuclear reactor and pewpewing lasers and CIWS at incoming drones/missiles will make an 8 year old very excitedThat's why Trump thinks it's exciting too, he has the tastes of an 8 year old
>>64669319Yeah rumors have it there might even be room for your mom
haha holy fuck the little dick energy is hilarious you seething cunts are so obviously envious of us it's great
>>64669323No>No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than onceWhat the (ridiculous, probably treasonous) idea the Trump admin had was for someone else to get elected, have Trump as VP then for the elected president to step down. This is to avoid the "elected" requirement.
>>64669340my dick is 7", i'm good dude
>>64668218the aesthetic
>>64668416>40s vessel when most attacks against the ship are going to be striking anywhere BUT the belt is a waste of tonnage.A ship armed vs anti ship missiles would be armed like a ship armed against HE shells, meaning that the belt would cover the entire hull, but be thinner. And it would not be an internal belt, like on late US battleships, but an external belt, integrated into the hull plating. You have to understand that anti antiship missile armor would be more like torpedo bulges than anything you think of as "armor", just like more tank armor is mostly empty space.
>check k>nobody has a clue about the Hyper Velocity Projectiles that can engage fucking cruise missilestypical brainlet theater, get rekt bitches this thing is going to FUCK
What happened to build the wall?
>>64669341define "person." Trump can declare himself an exception or an "uber-person" via an executive order.
>>64669365implessive really
>>64669358Ok listen here you mouth breathing retard.Warhead technology since WW2 has advanced unfathomably.Sure, no current fucking missile has a gigantic HEAT warhead to pen meters of armor, but there are fucking huge missiles with 500-1000kg warheads which could easily be swapped with a big HEAT war head which would simply be a tried and true HEAT warhead from an ATGM missile.Such a warhead could piece several meters of armor, fuck me it would go through a yamato and punch a hole on the opposite side of it.Yamato was 74,000 tons, this piece of shit trump is creaming his pants about is 35,000 tons.To armor a ship against anti-ship missiles is totally impossible. It would require a ship with 1,000,000 tons of displacement, something the length of a kilometer or more.
>>64668218more aesthetic
>>64669365The engagement window for such a missile is milliseconds, not even a full second.A railgun will need a capacitor bank which takes at least several seconds to recharge, if not minutes.So a railgun can engage 1 missile in a swarm doing a TOT attack.Big whoop.
The USS Jeffery Edward Epstein
>butthurt chink starts spamming the same jpg Classic, really
>>64669374> It would require a ship with 1,000,000 tons of displacement, something the length of a kilometer or moreno. The thicker the hull, the less length/volume is needed. Most of the ship mass is empty space anyway. We can certainly make a much heavier AND compact ship.
>>64669062>Meanwhile, Zumwalt carries the same 12 CPS missilesBig Mistake.One of the signature Zumwalt are side mounted PVLS. That are protected against sympathetic detonation and massively increase ship survivability. Loading massive CPS missiles that would destroy entire ship fro.a single hit undermines Zumwalt survivability design.On the other hand Zumwalt is more ready for direct energy future. It has full electric propulsion that can provide massive power for lasers, HPM and rail guns. It has space to mount these systems instead of guns.As for CPS missiles my opinion for them best suited specialized submarines similar to SSBNs
>>64669302>They have less weapons than a Type 055. Only 128 VLS cells, a 055 has 112 - but they're twice the size. You would need 224 US VLS cells to match a 055.Have none of you seen this image yet? It's got an entire separate VLS with cells sized for hypersonic weapons. >The lasers and railguns will all be cancelled since they're unworkable fantasy weaponsThe lasers are already working, you pristine dumbfuck, they've had demonstrator units at sea for a decade now; scaling up size/power isn't difficult when you're building a new hull with spare power generation in mind. The railgun doesn't even need to work because of the Hyper Velocity Projectile; it uses the guidance package from the railgun project but in a sub-caliber saboted shell you can fire out of a standard cannon. They have a 155mm version (the Army has already knocked down a target missile with one fired from a Paladin) a 6-inch version for the Advanced Gun System and yes, even a 5-inch version compatible with the guns already in the fleet. The Navy resumed testing of it in October of last year. >and 5" guns are more decorations than anything elseSee above. > What the fuck are they using the space for?It's not mentioned in this graphic but it's been said elsewhere it's slated to have FOUR SWEIP III electronic warfare modules - the Burkes they've refitted with this have these expanded muffin-top superstructures now because they need so much room for emitter arrays. That's a LOT of watts for jamming.
>scaling up isn't difficult
>>64669377These are subcaliber saboted projectiles, anon. Like, they work in 127mm guns on Burkes already. Yes, the Navy dropped these for a while and yes, they are fucking retarded
>>64669394Solid state laser technology? You think that's fucking rocket science? The only limitation on them right now is retrofitting them onto ships without enough power generation to feed them.
>>64669274>most likelyIt will most likely be cancelled after a 5 year development hell, or go like the Zums and become a 2-3 half-assed ships. And i say this as someone who likes big and pointless things
>>64669365It’s been brought up but anyone who did used the HVP acronym
>>64669375Why is he always leaning forward?
>>64669155>Are they legitimately just reading Al Jazeera up there?yesyes they are
>>64669379The USS Israel.
