Did any of his points have merit? Seemed to me like being a contrarian for the sake of it
Haven't watched it, wont watch it, but if you're not fucking around with different loads that could affect cycling, there's really no reason to not have a semi in this day and age. It just removes the risk of user error from short shucking, with no particular downside.
>>64684939Who?
>>64684939It's a controversial statement but he's not the only one to come forward with it.Basically.>Pump shotguns have traditionally been the go to because of cost and reliability.>They can also cycle light loads that semi autos can't.>But you can short stroke them under stress or if inexperienced.>Semi automatic shotguns have traditionally been expensive and temperamental.>But that's no longer the case with Berettas/Benellis given ammunition you would probably be using in HD scenarios.>Given that, modern semi auto shotguns are MORE reliable because their issues have been fixed whereas the short stroking on pumps is inherent so it remains.This is all true, but I think it's overstated. You CAN short stroke a shotgun, but you can also jam a semi automatic. I've never had issues short stroking a pump, and when I did see it with women the biggest cause is ergonomics. Give them a youth shotgun that they can comfortably shoulder/reach the forend and they're fine. Training to rack the forend all the way back and all the way forward every time also helps a lot.I reckon for HD semi auto shotguns are reliable enough now that if you can afford the difference for a good one you might as well get one. Most of the dirt cheap Turkshit is still dodgy enough that a Mossberg is still a better choice. If you can't afford a Beretta A300 then a Mossberg or even a Maverick 88 is perfectly fine, just slam a case of cheap birdshot out of it fast enough to get the hang of it first. Or if you REALLY want a cheap semi auto HD gun get an AR-15 instead.There's a lot of things other than home defense where shotguns can be useful though, so that's a much broader discussion where pump actions can be either ok or sub-optimal for other reasons.
>>64685005Quality post.
>>64684964/thread>>64684939Buy an ad
>START DOING THIS tubeslop>generic man with beard gives his hot take on a conversation that's more than 20 years stale>"what do you think of video"internet sucks these days
>>64684939Not gonna watch it, guy is pretty gay desu>>64685005This is a pretty common take I've been hearing from shotgun instructors the last 4 or 5 years. Pump action quality has been continuing in a race towards the bottom. No brands are exceptions. Good(read not cheap, Turkish, or Mossberg) semi-auto guns are just shitting the bed less in terms of both running reliably and not having catastrophic qc fuckups. "Pump shotgun reliability" has become a meme when using reasonably powerful loads. Also they beg for people to stop shitting up their m4s with aftermarket parts, shotgun is fine.
>>64685026Pump shotguns are really knife fighting at the bottom end of the market because if you are spending ~$600-800+ on a really nice one that puts you about 50-70% of the way towards a comparable semi auto.That said all of the Mossbergs/Mavericks I've seen lately seem to still be fine. Superficial features have gotten cheaper, but the fundamentals are fine.Turkshit I can't vouch for. Most of them work fine for a while, but it's a total dice roll. If buying Turkshit at least get something that's a direct copy of a good design like a Benelli M4 or a Winchester 1300 and even then keep the warranty card handy.
>>64684939Was subscribed by didn't watch his content for a long, long time now. That video caused me to finally unsubscribe
>>64684939Fuck yamudda
>>64684939He's just engagement farming and click-baiting now. He's been putting this kind of low-hanging dogshit for a little while now, taking a debate point and spinning a whole video out of it for content. It's not what built his channel or attracted people to it and I don't think he cares, which suggests desperation and gives some insight into how his numbers and revenue are doing. I think he's on the way down and out. Shame he couldn't do it with any dignity
>>64685005there's added benefits from a semi tooI always think back to Paul Harrels Miami Dade video, where he demonstrates how the one cop with a shotgun gets winged and has to pump one handed to continue firing compare that to if he was carrying a semi he could have stayed on target or just lay down a withering hail of firepower instead of having to take seconds and his eyes off the fight to actuate the pumpnot saying that would have changed the outcome of the gunfight, but I always thought that was interesting
>>64684948I don't understand the short-stroke argument desu sempai. If you pump it and pull the trigger and it doesn't go bang you pump it again and pull the trigger again. The exact same argument is made FOR the reliability of DA revolvers: if you pull the trigger and it doesn't go bang, you pull the trigger again. If you pull the trigger on a semi and it doesn't go bang you at best have to charge it again and at worst have to start investigating.
>>64685423>i dont understand the argument that in the heat of the moment you will fuck up cycling the gun!>duhhh just cycle it again!you can do the exact same thing with a semi auto.
>>64685430That requires you to do something you aren't doing already. Pump-and-shoot is how you operate a pump shotgun, your hands are already in the right place and cycling the pump is the normal thing you do right after pulling the trigger. Charge-and-shoot is not how you operate a semi-auto and the controls are not designed around such operation.
>>64685423>in self defense scenario>fuck up cycling, pull trigger, click>cycle again, fuck up cycling again, click>dieNTA, but if you screw up once then you are liable to screw it up again, and you are very unlikely to figure out what you are doing wrong before whatever it is that you are self-defencing against kills you.A semi-automatic jamming of its own accord is extremely unlikely if the gun is of reputable quality and properly maintained, and if you use similarly reputable ammo and test it before hand to ensure reliable cycling. This applies equally as much to revolvers, pump action shotguns etc and all the potential non-user induced malfunctions that they can suffer. What sets short stroking apart from other malfunctions is that you can't reduce the risk of malfunction before hand . If you poorly handle a pump action in a particular way then it will definitely malfunction, and the only way to prevent that malfunction is to train so intensely that correct pumping is second nature. This isn't an undealable issue by any means, but it does put a burden on the gun owner to actually train with their weapon routinely, and someone who wants to leave a longarm in their bedroom for home defense might not want to train that much. Especially since the main argument for pumps over a halfway decent AR15 is being a few hundred bucks cheaper, which is hardly a good argument if you then have to spend a couple of hundred bucks a year putting shells through the gun to compensate for the more challenging handling requirements.
>>64684939>Did any of his points have merit?Let's look at his points (curse you, I had no intention of watching this video until you made the thread; I had already decided I like pumps):>From observing his wife who had less experience with them he noticed they are more prone to user induced malfunctions.This is true. Manually operated firearms require more familiarization to get good with. They are great for people who love guns and are willing to practice with them but suck for people who buy a gun and leave it in a nightstand or closet until they need it.>Semi-auto shotguns have become much more reliable but pump-action shotguns are still just as likely to run into those user induced malfunctions.>That's true (as long as you avoid Turkshit), a Benelli M4 will run full-power 00-buckshot no problem.Anon, you can buy a pump as long as you're willing to familiarize yourself with it; they can cycle both light recoil ammo and full power loads without messing with any springs, so they are perfect for hunters. Just understand that if you hand this gun to a person who normally doesn't use pumps, then he's going to suck a lot more than if you had just given him a semi-auto shotgun or an AR-15. BTW, his opinion is not the contrarian opinion; ever since firearm culture started worshipping GWOT vets, the pump shotgun's popularity has been in decline. There are fewer instructors willing to give shotgun classes than ever before, and there are fewer people willing to take those classes than ever before.
>>64685506That is true, there has been a cancerous proliferation of>TUNNEL SNAKE TACTICAL SELF DEFENSE CLASS>MASTER EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW TO SAVE YOUR LIFE*>3RD WEDNESDAY OF SEPTEMBER BE THERE OR BE SQUARE>EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT GUNS>[plz don't bring anything other than a Glock 19 and an AR-15 or I'll kick you out of the class because I don't know how to use them]
>>64685430It’s analogous to the immediate action for a ftf in a semi-auto pistol vs revolver >semi ftf>tap rack bang>revolver>so anyway I kept blastin
so simply dont short stroke? isnt that what training is for? seems like only a problem for bubba who bought an 870 for home defense in 1999 and only shoots it once every other year
lots of virgins in this thread that have no idea how short women's arms are.
>>64686019what do women have to do with anything
>>64686048One of the key points in the YT video in question is the guy seeing his wife constantly short stroke the shotgun and getting one jam after another.But if you watch the video she's clearly unable to shoulder the shotgun and even reach the forend so of course she's going to short stroke it constantly. She needs a youth shotgun or at least a shorter LOP stock, otherwise she'd have to hook the stock under her armpit and hip fire it.It's not the only point he cites, but looking at that exact thing he basically argues.>Look at my wife struggling to operate a gun that's clearly the wrong size for her to actually use.>Clearly that means this type of firearm is mechanically unsuitable for her.>Therefore it means it's unsuitable for anyone in general.
You can fire a semi a lot faster than a pump, which is the only thing that matters in a home defense against intruders scenarioPlus you'll be firing from weird angles, hiding behind walls/counters/couches/whatever
>>64684939Paul covered this guy's points years ago.https://youtu.be/MwyYNdcmfNk?si=jPFxbotm0hrDONcn&t=598
guntubers are fags generally, especially the one in OP. anyone worth their shit gets demonetized https://www.youtube.com/@MarineGunBuilderdudes videos on poly80 builds were great back when that was a thing
My magazine fed shotgun feeds 3" magnum buckshot more reliably than my pump action...I'd grab a full size 9mm pistol before a shotgun unless I was hunting or shooting clays though
>>64686122So what you're saying is everyone should go the SBS route with a shockwave. I completely agree.
