with this in mind how would you outfit the army for the next one?. urban warfare is essentially solved but in an improvised manner how do you scale this?
No, having a first world military, funded by the biggest economy in the world fighting against illiterate retards where neither side gives a single shit about civilian casualties is what won that war.
>>64710714its mainly just plain jdams and howitzer rounds
You didn't win the war. Gaza is still standing and so is Hamas. Frankly having taken three years to get to this point given how completely lopsided the advantage is for Israel is embarrassing. Congrats, you won 40% of a territory controlled by goat herders in tunnels using the proportionally largest military budget in the world and with daddy US holding your hand the whole time and shielding you from all consequences, and only managed to alienate the entire world and ensure that aid will be cut off as soon as the boomers die. Just remember that Israel has only ever accomplished anything because of America. You'll always be parasites.
>>64713584>Gaza is still standingThat pile of rubble? Standing?
>>64713606>replying to a bot post
>>64710714>wonThis is is worse than vietnam and afghanistan for israel. The whole world finally noticed.
>>64713584>>64713630Israel occupies the majority of Gaza including the Egyptian border. Israel bombs anything that moves still, with no retaliation, they can not “rebuild” under these conditions and since they gave up all the hostages in exchange for this new normal there’s no reason for Israel to stop the pressure. Not to mention Hamas is being massacred by their own people now. Israel knocks off key Hamas commanders and annexes even more land. Hamas does nothing but cry to the UNIsrael continues to kill Hezbollah members daily (Hezbollah even holds military funerals for them each week, muh civilians is nonsense) and has also hit remaining arms caches and bases. The LAF is taking over a lot of their own territory and the route to Syria has been cut since Assad fell (itself a result of hezbollahs defeat. Nasrallah (rest in piss) said to accept a ceasefire without one in Gaza would mean defeat. If that was his standards for defeat I can’t imagine what he’d consider the current situation if he weren’t in 500 pieces There’s no way to spin such submission into victory. They aren’t proving anything by not retaliating. If they won and had Israel in the ropes, they would still defend themselves. Israel would not have dared casually taking parts of Gaza/lebanon and bombing them daily like this pre-October 7th, but this is now the new normal and neither Hamas or Hezbollah dare retaliate in any way. Apparently “diplomatic cover” removes the ability of them to defend themselves on a basic level.It’s over. Be happy Hamas and Hezbollah still officially exist as political concepts and with tiny militias to kill their own people with but not much else. But in the new normal they will never be a threat to Israel again
>>64713584>>64713658if hamas won why is Israel chilling in the bulk of Gaza and killing palis daily without response
>>64713687>be Palestinian>have majority of land>start war >lose land>well fuck>start war>lose land>well fuck>start war>lose land Seriously what the fuck is their problem, Israel has shown repeatedly that they will give up territory for peace, Egypt and even fucking Gaza were occupied by Israel and they gave it up for peace, why the fuck can't Palestinians get the fucking hint?
I stand with Israel.
>>64713768TerribleTaste.Webm
>>64713721>oy vey i just want to steal your land and murder you, why are you fighting back
>>64713768>Eastern European diaspora in Israel with boobjobs pretending to be JewishYeah
>>64713791They're not fighting back anymore tho LMAO
>>64713796Israel is going full mask off and trying to speed up the genocide of Palestinians because they know the US is collapsing and wont be able to save them any longer
>>64713782>>64713793How could you not love Eva Green?
>>64713791That's the Palestinians tho. >reeeeeThey had the majority of land in 1947. They had the backing of 6 different nations while Israel was under embargo.Israel gave back Gaza to the Palestinians and what did the Palestinians do with it? They turned it into a base to launch rockets and store weapons. Fuck Palestinians they deserve total extermination.
>>647138052 more generations and al-quds will be freed, don't worry
>>64713812Are you fucking retarded or just a kike spewing idf talking pointsThey still had total control over Gaza’s borders, air, sea, and essential supplies, it was basically a colony
>>64713805>save them any longer Name the times the US has ever fought in Israel or in ANY Arab-Israel wars. 1948 was the peak opportunity to destroy Israel and they COULDN'T. And now that they have a domestic arms industry and the most potent military in the middle east, combined with the fact that no other Arab country will ever again send hundreds of thousands of their young men into a meat grinder for people who then stab them in the back?
>>64713826>i-it was a colony There was a reason why they controlled access. >jewwwwwwwEvery. Fucking. Time.Are you a Palestinian, because you're using their talking points.
>>64713832>Name the times the US has ever fought in Israel or in ANY Arab-Israel wars. Every single war the US has been involved in the last 30 years pretty much> And now that they have a domestic arms industry and the most potent military in the middle east,Funded by american taxpayers
>>64713841>There was a reason why they controlled access.Yeah, in typical jewish fashion they could pretend they “gave Gaza back” to the Palestinians while actually still having total control over the enclave
>>64713846>every warSo Afghanistan and Iraq posed a threat to Israel? Shut the fuck up you /pol/ rat.
>>64713584>Gaza is still standing and so is Hamas.>We're also being genocided!Pick one, mahomo'd
>>64713865Netanyahu lied before the Congress and said Iraq had WMDs
>>64713859>nooooo if you have borders and shit it's a prison! Yeah no.
>>64713873>net- So did Saudi Arabia, Syria, the UN inspectors.....
>>64713874The also controlled the water and energy supply and everything else there
>>64713879When did they do that
>>64713873[citation needed]
>>64713873Netenyahu wasn't even in the Israeli government in the Iraq War
>>64713846>>64713859>>64713873I love the islamic seethe.Hamas literally shaking begging the UN to stop the daily attacks. They chose this ceasefire and they chose this new normal.
>>64713886Because the Palestinians refused to build their own infrastructure, opting instead to use construction materials to make rockets, Israel unilaterally supplied Gaza's water and energy needs.>m-muh blockade!!Only instituted after several years of tolerating Palestinain rocket attacks.
>>64713892https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1441All Iraq had to do was comply, instead they doubled down on their retardation.
>>64713886>be surrounded with no domestic water or power >have to get it from Israel >tHeY cOnTrOL tHe wAtER aND pOwER What kind of retardation is this?
>>64713902>>64713908>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_PDpwL8kuY&pp=ygUOTmV0YW55YWh1IGlyYXE%3DWere you born yesterday or something
>>64713915You do realize all jews will be hunted down and murdered worldwide right? The holobunga will be real this time
>>64713937Just two more intifadas right?
>>64713928freshly updated
>>64713937ANY DAY NOWJUST TWO MORE GENERATIONS
>>64713916Wrong, Israel doesn't give Palestinians permit to build any infrastructure >>64713917>changing the goalpost
>>64713937>all the j-jewsWorked real well for the Third Reich now didn't it?>they didn't kill the Jews!>they put them in luxury camps while their people were firebombed Which makes them even more pathetic.
>>64713939Soon
>>64713949>shows you direct evidence >g-goalpost/pol/ rat shows again they can't debate worth shit.
>>64713961The point was that Netanyahu purposely lied to the US congress, i didnt ask for this evidence nor is it relevant to what i said
>>64713972>getting things wrong is lying Explain why the rest of the UN AGREED WITH HIM.
>>64713991The UN is a jewish puppet.
>>64713832The yom kippur war was the biggest airlift operation in US history.Nickel Grass still to this day surpasses even other airlift operation, in tonnage and cost, even WW2 ones.It was also the reason why the Arabs did their Oil Embargo.A lot of people learn about the Embargo but not why it happened. Well, Nickel Grass was pretty much the reason that it happened.
>>64713972>he lied about the WMD's If he knew Iraq couldn't harm Israel then invading it is the worst possible thing Israel could do, believe it or not Israel prefers it's neighborhood to be peaceful (Jordan/Egypt) and stable because it's far easier to secure a border with a government than a bunch of warring groups who support the people who want you dead. The wars in the middle east has been a utter disaster for Israel, as Palestine gets all of it's weapons from those unstable countries.
>>64713998>the UN is a jewish puppet >looks at the UNHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>64714000>nickel grass You mean the operation that happened after the front reversed and Israel went the offense?>supplies = combatWho's moving the fucking goalposts again?
>>64714000>nickel grassPales in comparison to the aid the USSR supplied to the Arabs, but nobody ever mentions that. >oil embargoWhich fucked OPEC and led the US to diversify and move away from OPEC. Again Arab temper tantrums fuck themselves over.
>>64714000arab oil embargo was one of the biggest foreign policy mistakes in history and helped Israel immensely. Led to Egypt switching sides in the Cold War and forced the Saudi's to get closer to the US after it failed
>>64714011Lol what, their strategy in the last few decades has been to balkanize all the countries in the region and eventually conquer them, theres noone who benefits from war and chaos in the middle east but jews
>>64714070>eventually Any century now.....
>>64713689>>64713692Kek. If you had told me five years ago that I would be agreeing with blue haired feminists about the jewish question I would have told you you were nuts, but here we are.
>>64714070>t-theyre going to take the land!>sinai Then why the fuck would they give it back?>/pol/estinians >lol pissreal cant subdue Gaza >Israel's final goal is to essentially create Gaza over 90000000000Can you fuckers stay consistent for 5 fucking seconds?
>>64714090>agreeing with blue haired feminists >for any fucking thingThose mentally ill hambeasts only believe "Free Palestine" because they believe Jews are White. You are essentially backing their White Genocide fantasy.
>>64714000>The yom kippur war was the biggest airlift operation in US history.That would be the Berlin airlift, and it's not even close. The US airlifted more aid to Berlin during the airlift every two days than in the entirety of Nickel Grass.
>>64714116I know. But the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
>>64714116>backing their White Genocide fantasyThe fems or the jews?
>>64714130No. The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy. >Israel I want Israel to exist so we can expel every Jew there, and then build a wall around it. We are not the same.
>>64714136The fems. >the jews are whiteWhich is funny as shit, as the Right says Jews are Semites and aliens, but the left says that they are Europeans, which looking back on European history is funny as fuck.
THE STORY OF DUBI KURDI THE D9 OPERATORMoshe Nissim, nicknamed “Kurdi Bear (1) ” , the D-9 operator who became the terror of the Jenin refugee camp inhabitants, speaks with no censorship about his time of glory.“I entered Jenin driven by madness, by desperation, I felt I have nothing to loose, That even if I ‘get it’, no big deal.I told my wife: “If anything happens to me, at least someone will take care of you!”.I started my reserve service, in the worst conditions possible. Maybe this is why I didn’t give a damn. Not about explosive charges, not about gun fire.“My life was in deep shit for the past one and a half years. For almost half a year I am suspended from work as a senior inspector in the Jerusalem municipality.I worked there for 17 years, till that cursed day, January the 20 th , exactly my 40 th birthday, when the police came and arrested me.They said that I and my colleagues in the inspection unit are suspected for being bribed by contractors and other business owners, that in fact, we are a corrupted bunch.“This is a terrible injustice. I am a very friendly guy, and in this job you mix with people you inspect. But bribery? Me?I am in debt for hundreds of thousands of Shekels long before all this story. Had I taken bribes, I would have money, but I couldn’t even pay the lawyer. Since then I am suspended. My wife was fired as well, and I have four children to keep.“This was not the first blow. A few months earlier, I was injured badly in my back, my wife was fired, and my son got run over and had to be operated to save his leg.Today he is OK, but his big dream, and mine, that he will once be a player in the Beitar Jerusalem team, this dream is probably gone forever. Pity. He was really talented. I have already promised him to get him into the children’s Beitar team.
>>64714224“Truth is, that I understood my commanders. Hey, I’ve been doing my reserves duty for 16 years now, and I was useless. I did nothing but make trouble.“During my obligatory Military service (2) I was constantly sentenced to prison, because I refused to be a vehicle electrician. In my unit as well, in the bulldozer unit, I was supposed to be an electrician, but actually, I did nothing, just messed around. I would come to the unit, and immediately open a card table, open a bottle. If any officer would dare send me to guard duty, I would send him first. Kurdi always did his thing.If I felt like going to a Beitar football match, or going home, no one could stop me. I would just start the car and go.“Truth is, they didn’t even know me. When I am given responsibility, I can act differently, In the “Versailles” disaster (3) I was in charge of all the inspection team on location. When I was seen by one of the guys of my military unit, he was shocked.He said: “In the army you can’t tie your shoelaces, and here you are a big chief!”The truth is that when I finally decide to do something, I am one stubborn guy. I will go for it till the end. This time was one of those moments. What haven ‘ t I done for them to take me? I sent the guys to twist the battalion commander’s arm, I phoned the company commander, I drove them mad. “I promise to work”, I pleaded with the battalion commander. Finally, he agreed to give me a chance.“I said to myself:“Kurdi, you can’t let them down. No more running wild!”.The speaker is Moshe Nissim, AKA “Moshe Nissim Beitar Jerusalem”.In the Jenin refugee camp, he was called, over the military radio:“Kurdi Bear”.Kurdi, because this is the name he insisted on. Bear, after the D-9 he was driving, demolishing house after house.There was not one soldier in Jenin that did not hear this name.Kurdi Bear was considered the most devoted, brave and probably the most destructive operator.
>>64714233A man, that the Jenin camp inquiry committee, would want very much to have a word with.For 75 hours, with no break, he sat on the huge bulldozer, charges exploding around him, and erased house after house.His story, which he tells openly and with no inhibitions, is far from being a regular war myth. Medals, so it seems, will not be awarded for it. (Actually, his company was later awarded a citation for outstanding service.)The experience“The funny bit is, I didn’t even know how to operate the D-9. I have never been an operator. But I begged them to give me a chance to learn.Before we went into Shekhem (Nablus), I asked some of the guys to teach me. They sat with me for two hours. They taught me how to drive forwards and make a flat surface.“I took it on with no problem and told them: ‘That’s it. Move aside and let me work.’.This is what happened in Jenin as well. I have never demolished a house before, or even a wall. I got into the D-9 with a friend of mine, a Yemenite. I let him work for an hour, and then told him, ‘OK. I got the idea.’“But the real thing started the day 13 of our soldiers were killed up that alley in the Jenin refugee camp.
>>64714239“When they brought us in, I knew that nobody wanted to work with me. They were afraid to be with me on the bulldozer. Not only did I have a reputation of a troublemaker, but also of a man who knows no fear, and they were right about that. I really have no fear. They knew I had no fear, that I don’t give a damn, and that I can go anywhere, without asking questions, without an escort of tanks or APC’s or anything. Once, in Jenin, I left the tank that escorted us everywhere. I wanted to have a spin around the camp, see what’s going on. Gadi, the other operator who was with me, nearly fainted. He started going mad: ‘Get back,’ he shouted, ‘we have no escort!’, but I had to get to know the place better, to find an exit, just in case we needed one. I was not afraid to die. At least I was insured. This would have helped my family.The Flag“When we got into the camp, the D-9’s were already waiting. They where hauled from Shekhem (Nablus). I got the big D-9 L, me and the Yemenite, my partner. First thing I did was to tie the Beitar team flag. I had it prepared in advance. I wanted the family to be able to identify me. I told the family and the kids: ‘you will see my bulldozer on television. When you see the Beitar flag, that will be me’. And this is exactly what happened.“I know it sounds crazy, but for me, to hang this flag was completely natural. Like eating. Here, look at this Beitar pendant around my neck. It never comes off. Not off me, and not off the kids. I carry the Beitar flags everywhere I go. Look at my car, all covered with these flags. This is the way I am. I always go to the Beitar matches, in a Beitar colored Galabia (an Arab man’s dress), and a big drum of the Kurds from the C. Once, after our first national championship, I took a ride on the roof of a car, carrying the drum, all the way to Jerusalem.
>>64714224I ain't reading all that but being a D9 operator in IDF sounds fun.
>>64714244“Beitar is a kink in my brain. There is no other way to explain it. After my family, it is the most important thing in my life, and the only thing that can kill me. In Jenin, I was not scared for a moment, but I cannot go to the Beitar matches for half a year now. The suspense kills me, and I am constantly afraid of getting a heart attack. Sometimes, I can walk around ‘Teddy’ (the main Jerusalem stadium) with a ticket in my hand, and I can’t go in. In one match, in Beit Shean, I fainted after they scored a goal. I know how this sounds, but that’s the way it is. Incurable. At home, they know better than to talk to me if Beitar lost a match.“So now you understand why the Beitar flag was on the bulldozer in Jenin. Someone told me that my commander wanted to take it off. But no way. If I had a say in the matter, there would be a Beitar flag on the top of the mosque in the camp. I tried convincing the Golani (an infantry brigade of the Israeli army) officer I worked with to let me go up there and hang it, but he refused. He said I would be shot if I tried. Pity.“The flag was the most outstanding object in the camp. Reservists who went home on short leave came back with Beitar flags, just to imitate me. It made a lot of noise, my flag. The Golani soldiers were stunned. ‘You brought Beitar here,’ they told me. And I said: ‘I am going to make a Teddy stadium here. Don’t you worry.’.“On the radio, they wanted to call me ‘Moshe-Bear’, but I insisted on Kurdi. I told the Golanis, I am Kurdi, and I won’t answer if you call me by any other name.’ That is how ‘Kurdi Bear’ was born. This is my name, and I am stubborn.“In the reserves, they already got used to my signature: ‘Moshe Nissim Beitar Jerusalem’.For a while they asked me to stop it, but finally they just gave up.
>>64714250Going in“The moment I drove the bulldozer into the camp, something switched in my head. I went mad. All the desperation, caused by my personal condition, just vanished at once. All that remained was the anger over what had happened to our guys. Till now I am convinced, and so are the rest of us, that if we were let into the camp earlier, with all our might, twenty-four soldiers would not have been killed in this camp.“The moment I went into the camp, for the first time, I just thought of how to help these soldiers. These fighters. Children the age of my son. I couldn’t grasp how they worked there, were a charge blows up on you, with every step you take.“With the first mission I was given, to open a track inside the camp, I understood what kind of hell this was.“My first mission, voluntarily, was to bring the soldiers food. I was told: ‘The only way to get food in there, is with the D-9’. They haven’t eaten in two days. You couldn’t poke your nose out. I filled the bulldozer till the roof, and drove the bulldozer right up to the door of their post, so that they would not have to take even one step outside their shelter. One step was enough in order to lose an arm or a leg.“You could not tell where the charges were. They (the Palestinian fighters) dug holes in the ground and planted charges. You would just start driving, and you would hit a 3” pipe, welded on both ends. As you touch them, they go off. Everything was booby trapped. Even the walls of houses. Just touch them, and they blow up. Or, they would shoot you the moment you entered. There were charges in the roads, under the floor, between the walls. As you make an opening, something goes off. I saw a bird cage blow up in some pet shop, where we opened a track. A flying birdcage. I felt sorry for the birds. They just planted charges everywhere.“For me, in the D-9, it was nothing. I didn’t mind. You would just hear the explosions.
>>64714258Even 80 Kilos of explosives only rattled the bulldozer’s blade. It weighs three and a half tons (4) . It’s a monster. A tank can get hit in the belly. It’s belly is sensitive. With the D-9, you should only look out for RPG’s or 50 Kilos of explosives on the roof. But I didn’t think about it then. The only thing that mattered was that these soldiers must not risk themselves just to eat or drink something.”“I fell in love with those children. I was willing to do with my bulldozer anything they would ask for. I begged for work: ‘Let me finish another house, open another track.’They, in return, protected me. I would leave the bulldozer without weapons, nothing. Just walked in. They told me I am mad, but I said: ‘Leave me alone. Anyhow, the armored vest will not save me.’ This is how I worked. Even without a shirt. Half naked.“Do you know how I held out for 75 hours? I didn’t get off the bulldozer. I had no problem of fatigue, because I drank whisky all the time. I had a bottle in the bulldozer at all times. I had put them in my bag in advance. Everybody else took clothes, but I knew what was waiting for me there, so I took whisky and something to munch on.“Clothes? Didn’t need any. A towel was enough. Anyhow I could not leave the bulldozer. You open the door, and get a bullet. For 75 hours I didn’t think about my life at home, about all the problems. Everything was erased. Sometimes images of terror attacks in Jerusalem crossed my mind. I witnessed some of them.”
>>64714263The purity of our weapons“What is ‘opening a track’? You erase buildings. On both sides. There is no other choice, because the bulldozer was much wider than their alleys. But I am not looking for excuses or anything. You must ‘shave’ them. I didn’t give a damn about demolishing their houses, because it saved the lives of our soldiers. I worked where our soldiers were slaughtered. They didn’t tell all the truth about what happened. they drilled holes in the walls, holes for gun barrels. Anyone who escaped the charges, was shot through these holes.“I had no mercy for anybody. I would erase anyone with the D-9, just so that our soldiers won’t expose themselves to danger. That’s what I told them. I was afraid for our soldiers. You could see them sleeping together, 40 soldiers in a house, all crowded. My heart went out for them. This is why I didn’t give a damn about demolishing all the houses I’ve demolished – and I have demolished plenty. By the end, I built the ‘Teddy’ football stadium there.“Difficult? No way. You must be kidding. I wanted to destroy everything. I begged the officers, over the radio, to let me knock it all down; from top to bottom. To level everything. It’s not as if I wanted to kill. Just the houses. We didn’t harm those who came out of the houses we had started to demolish, waving white flags. We screwed just those who wanted to fight.
God i love muslim, arab, turd world, and commie seethe
>>64714266“No one refused an order to knock down a house. No such thing. When I was told to bring down a house, I took the opportunity to bring down some more houses; not because I wanted to – but because when you are asked to demolish a house, some other houses usually obscure it, so there is no other way. I would have to do it even if I didn’t want to. They just stood in the way. If I had to erase a house, come hell or high water – I would do it. And believe me, we demolished too little. The whole camp was littered with detonation charges. What actually saved the lives of the Palestinians themselves, because if they had returned to their homes, they would blow up.“For three days, I just destroyed and destroyed. The whole area. Any house that they fired from came down. And to knock it down, I tore down some more. They were warned by loudspeaker to get out of the house before I come, but I gave no one a chance. I didn’t wait. I didn’t give one blow, and wait for them to come out. I would just ram the house with full power, to bring it down as fast as possible. I wanted to get to the other houses. To get as many as possible. Others may have restrained themselves, or so they say. Who are they kidding? Anyone who was there, and saw our soldiers in the houses, would understand they were in a death trap. I thought about saving them. I didn’t give a damn about the Palestinians, but I didn’t just ruin with no reason. It was all under orders.
>>64714279“Many people where inside houses we stto demolish. They would come out of the houses we where working on. I didn’t see, with my own eyes, people dying under the blade of the D-9. and I didn’t see house falling down on live people. But if there were any, I wouldn’t care at all. I am sure people died inside these houses, but it was difficult to see, there was lots of dust everywhere, and we worked a lot at night. I found joy with every house that came down, because I knew they didn’t mind dying, but they cared for their homes. If you knocked down a house, you buried 40 or 50 people for generations. If I am sorry for anything, it is for not tearing the whole camp down.Satisfaction“I didn’t stop for a moment. Even when we had a two-hour break, I insisted on going on. I prepared a ramp, to destroy a four-story building. Once I steered sharply to the right, and a whole wall came down. Suddenly I heard shouting on the radio: ‘Kurdi, watch it! It is us!’ Turns out there where our guys inside, and they forgot to tell me.“I had plenty of satisfaction. I really enjoyed it. I remember pulling down a wall of a four-story building. It came crashing down on my D-9. My partner screamed at me to reverse, but I let the wall come down on us. We would go for the sides of the buildings, and then ram them. If the job was to hard, we would ask for a tank shell.“I couldn’t stop. I wanted to work and work. There was this Golani officer who gave us orders by radio – I drove him mad. I kept begging for more and more missions. On Sunday, after the fighting was over, we got orders to pull our D-9’s out of the area, and stop working on our ‘football stadium’, because the army didn’t want the cameras and press to see us working. I was really upset, because I had plans to knock down the big sign at the entrance of Jenin – three poles with a picture of Arafat. But on Sunday, they pulled us away before I had time to do it.
>>64714284“I bitched them to give me more work. I would tell them, over the radio: ‘Why are you letting me rest? I want more work!’ All this time, I was really sick. I had fever. I got back from Jenin wiped out. Torn to bits. The next day, I went up again. One of the guys was ill, and I volunteered to help. I got back there. The battalion-commander was in shock when he saw me. The other operators all cracked up and needed rest, but I refused to leave. I wanted more.“I had lots of satisfaction in Jenin, lots of satisfaction. It was like getting all the 18 years of doing nothing – into three days. The soldiers came up to me and said: ‘Kurdi, thanks a lot. Thanks a lot’. And I hurt for the Thirteen (5) . If we had moved into the building where they were ambushed, we would have buried all those Palestinians alive.” I kept thinking of our soldiers. I didn’t feel sorry for all those Palestinians who were left homeless. I just felt sorry for their children, who were not guilty. There was one wounded child, who was shot by Arabs. A Golani paramedic came down and changed his bandages, till he was evacuated. We took care of them, of the children. The soldiers gave them candy. But I had no mercy for the parents of these children.I remembered the picture on television, of the mother who said she will bear children so that they will explode in Tel Aviv. I asked the Palestinian women I saw there: ‘Aren’t you ashamed?’
>>64714287“After I finished the work, I got out of the bulldozer, piled up some clothes on the side of the road, and fell asleep. They looked after me, so that I won’t get run over by a tank or something. All the fatigue of the past 75 hours just landed on me. There was a lot of excitement in what I did. The fact that I did a good job operating the bulldozer, the soldiers who came to me, after it was all over, and said: ‘thank you’. This was enough for me. I miss them. I’ve invited all of them for Kubeh at my place. Their commander, Kobi, the one I worked with throughout the 75 hours, was amazed by the invitation.‘Do you want the entire company to come over to your house?’I told him: ‘As far as I am concerned, bring the whole battalion.’I phoned my mother, from the D-9, and told her that the whole battalion was coming. She said: ‘no sweat’. I am waiting for them”.Politics“I know many people will think that my attitude stems from me being a ‘Beitar’ and ‘Likud’ member (6) . It is true. I am heavily on the right. But this has nothing to do with what I have done in Jenin. I have many Arab friends. And I say, if a man has done nothing – don’t touch him. A man who has done something – hang him, as far as I am concerned. Even a pregnant woman – shoot her without mercy, if she has a terrorist behind her. This is the way I thought in Jenin. I answered to no one. Didn’t give a damn. The main thing was to help our soldiers. If I had been given three weeks, I would have had more fun. That is, If they would let me tear the whole camp down. I have no mercy.
>>64714292“All the human rights organizations and the UN that messed with Jenin, and turned what we have done there into such an issue, are just bullshitting, lying. Lots of the walls in those houses just exploded by themselves, at our slightest touch. It is true, though, that during the last days we smashed the camp. And yes, it was justified. They mowed our soldiers down. They had a chance to surrender.“No one expressed any reservations against doing it. Not only me. Who would dare speak? If anyone would as much as open his mouth, I would have buried him under the D-9. This is the reason I didn’t mind seeing the hundred by hundred (7) we’ve flattened. As far as I am concerned, I left them with a football stadium, so they can play. This was our gift to the camp. Better than killing them. They will sit quietly. Jenin will not return to what it use to be.”
>the virgin doorknocker >vs>the chad bulldozerIf Israel did this from day one there would be no Hamas.
>>64714299Oy fuckin' vey anon, what a madlad
>>64713948>all those fat onesI still don't get why they try pushing this "open air prison" bullshit when they're fatter than me and I consider myself obese.
>>64714387>fatHamas steals all the food. They either eat it all or sell it on the black market at a markup, it's honestly sick.>see starving children >Hamas >look at Israel starving these children! >see bombed house>look at Israel bombing civilians! And ALL of it is because of Hamas. Palestinians made every wrong choice.
>>64714412You stupid or lying fuck. Israel was backing the Palestinian that was responsible for most of the aid theft. They were paying and arming him to destabalize Gaza and send fighters to Syria and Lebanon. He got killed a bit ago by other muzzies.
>>64714482>everything that ever happened is Israel's faultDiscussion is impossible
>>64714412Polestinian supporters will never acknowledge that they have made and continue to make some absolutely retarded choices.
>>64714482>Hamas is the rightful Palestinian resistance!>Hamas is a Israeli backed psyop!Jesus fucking Christ.
>>64714482And that Palestinian's name... was Albert Einstein
>>64714503Not Hamas but the Anti-Hamas groups funded by Israel, their theft of aid to sell it on the black market has been documented by the UN and even israeli media itself
>>64713791Palestinials are such faggots that all of the countries in the regions despise them and avoid taking them in. Simple as.Fuck Israel though, they are pro-russian.
>>64713873Iraq did have WMDs, my brown friend, just not nukes.
>>64715330Why should they take them in? Palestinians have their own land, its the thieves who should go back to pooland
>>64715336>Why should they take them in?Hurr-durr refugees, hurr-durr muslim brotherhood
>>64715343They dont wanna leave though, they just want their land back.
>>64715354>They dont wanna leave thoughThey do, it's not your choice retard, the issue is that nobody is willing to take them in. Because people around the region know how much of subhumans those retards are.
>>64715361There are already millions of Palestinians in neighboring Arab countries you retarded monkey, everything but kicking the kikes back to where they came from won’t solve but problem but only make things worse
>>64715361why do the jews even need israel? they already had their own ethno-states in the concentration camps and ghettos.that none of their neighbors wanted them is clearly their own fault
>>64713584i hate the kikes but to defend fucking hamas and those subhumans you must be the brownest of browniest of turd worldersor a womanregardless shut the fuck up and leave the website
>>64713584It doesn't matter how many synagogues you managed to burn down, if at the end of the day, a Jew is in your base, eating your sandwich, you did not win the conflict.
>>64713721There are extremely good reasons that Egypts border is seventeen miles thick with and fortified to hell. That reason is not the Israelis. The Palestinians are that toxic.When people who are the same religion as you say you are so dangerous that they need a military force to keep you out, you are a problem.
>>64713721Because they're retarded and think that they will inevitably win somehow and regain every piece of land they lost, regardless of how many military defeats they have.They also glorify martyrdom, and view it as a victory everytime they manage to kill some Jews, regardless of the military response it brings from Israel. Here's what one Hamas official said in the aftermath of October 7th:>"We know very well the consequences of our operation on Oct. 7", emphasizing that Palestinian lives must be sacrificed in the quest for liberation.https://www.arabnews.com/node/2394966/middle-eastThey never stop to consider what they're actually achieved in the aftermath.I've thought about it, and leftists and Palestinians acting like Palestinians will inevitably win because they're "on the right side of history" really does a disservice to every other anti-colonial movement.Armed anti-colonial movements in the rest of the third world didn't succeed just because they were on "the right side of history". They succeeded because for the most part, they had competent political and military leadership who knew how to leverage international support. As these anons >>64715869 >>64715330 pointed out, the Palestinians managed to alienate every single ally they had. Even ZANU, sights turned all the way up to 11 aside, performed better in combat than the Palestinians and never lost international support.As another example, look at the IRA. They used car bombings, but they would at least give the RUF a heads up when they planted the car bombs. Because they knew that if they killed too many civilians, it would lose them supporters. The car bombs still killed people of course, but it's clear the primary goal was to cause chaos rather than kill people.Meanwhile, the suicide bombings by Palestinians in the 2000s disgusted the rest of the world. They're what led to the West Bank Barrier being built. They never stopped to think if the suicide bombings were a good tactic.
>>64713498I wonder what the accuracy on conventional non-contested delivery of slick bombs is now. JDAMS are so expensive. OK they might be getting them for free but the difference in accuracy should be 10s of meters enough as to make no difference.
>>64713584>Just remember that Israel has only ever accomplished anything because of AmericaSame goes to all of Israel's enemy because they also got support from other courtiers .
>>64719068idf has DJI agro-drones dropping dumb bombs directly down but those are like 30 kilos max
>>64717645Palestinians will win in the end though. /k/ shit on the palis because they're brown and incompetent as fuck, but Demographics is Destiny, in more ways than one, and war is an extension of politics, political priorities supersede military ones every time.There's the situation with the Haredis. These are the jewiest of jews, who refuse to serve, dodge the draft, and reproduce like rats. As they increase in population, they become a larger welfare burden on the Israeli state. Look up how much welfare the haredis here take. They're some of the biggest recipients of Section 8 per capita. The non-orthodox jews will be forced to shoulder more and more of the burden of the armed forces, fighting for the jewish equivalent of ungrateful Section 8 hood niggers in their own country. Then you have the Palis themselves. Look at Pali demographics. For every dead Pali, eight more are born.So on the one hand, the actually capable fighting demographic in Israel is decreasing, while their section 8 nigger equivalents are increasing, and their enemies multiply in number on UN food parcels.Then we have the burger political demographics. Aside from the bible thumping demographic of boomer evangelicals, most Americans do not support Israel very strongly. Any google search will show you the massive Gen Z and Millennial demographic opposing Israel. Gen Z is aging into voting age now, and I suspect you'll begin to see some formerly lopsided political races start to look a lot closer soon.I look at Zohran Mamdani as a perfect example of the crisis facing Israel. All of the AIPAC dollars, all of the jewish support and mainline DNC dollars, and it wasn't enough to overcome the Progressive wing of the left party here, in one of the most jewish cities in America. You can say he won because the city is BROWN, but that begs the question - why the fuck are there so many browns?
>>64721928Except they've started drafting haredis, specifically because they're so abundant, Ben Gurion covenant be damned. And it turns out they are the jewish equivalent of the 'Wang Gang. They kill pretty much every Pali they encounter.
>>64713782homo
>>64721928Any day now.
>>64721990>https://theweek.com/politics/the-issue-dividing-israel-ultra-orthodox-draft-dodgers-haredi>Netanyahu is parading it as a “historic achievement”, claiming it will force thousands of Haredi men into uniform. In reality, “not a single battalion, never mind a division, will come of it”. And that’s because it’s “chock-full of loopholes”, said Sam Sokol. Criminal sanctions on draft dodgers are only due to come into effect in 2027; not only full-time “yeshiva” students, but anyone who’s studied in a “yeshiva” for two years between ages 14 to 18 will be considered ultra-Orthodox, and granted yearly deferments from enlistment.>https://www.timesofisrael.com/only-1212-of-the-24000-haredi-men-called-up-in-past-year-have-begun-enlisting/>Only 1,212, or five percent, of the 24,000 ultra-Orthodox men who have received initial draft notices since July 2024 have begun the enlistment process, the head of the IDF Personnel Directorate’s Planning and Personnel Management Division told lawmakers on Wednesday, calling the current sanctions available to the military insufficient for mobilizing “significant numbers” of Haredim.You might have enough haredis to make a Dirlewangstein Battalion or 2, but definitely not enough to make a full Dirlewangstein Brigade.Ultimately, Israel will suffer the same fate that befell Rhodesia and South Africa before it. South Africa was supported by the West - right up until the USSR fell. Then Apartheid became too toxic to support politically, and the rest is doctored history.Israel's Gaza operations can draw a historical parallel to Rhodesia's Operation Eland. 84 boys in short shorts killed a thousand marxist guerillas and suffered no casualties. But the media messaging was that they killed a thousand refugees. Political fantasy superceded military reality, Rhodesia lost South African military support because of it, and Rhodesia became Zimbabwe.
>>64722218The information war is sometimes more important than the military war. Are Palestinians little shits that ruined Lebanon? Yes. Are they breeding like rats even in UN refugee camps? Yes. Are they dying in massive numbers in military actions? Yes.But the media messaging has turned decisively against Israel, and you're living in a bubble if you can't realize that. Israel overplays its hand constantly, and America is the sole reason they've been able to continue doing what they do.There is a pathological altruism that affects the western liberal mindset, and these western liberals have a vote that is equivalent to yours. So when that 48% of the population that are pathological altruists see starving Palestinians and dead children, and then the jews post shit on social media bragging about killing Palis inside a refugee camp, you'll lose popular support from the left. Yes, the Palis just stoned a gay. But look at the dead children!You also have the discontent on the political right, the two kinds of /pol/. You have the Nationalists and the Third Worldists, both of whom oppose Israel on different grounds, but oppose them all the same, whether it's due to AIPAC interference in domestic politics or Israeli bombings of brown countries, they oppose Israel. When anons on /k/ complain about /pol/, it's usually in reference to the Third Worldists, the brownoids. But the Nationalists tend to be older Millennials, they tend to be white, and a lot of /k/ are sympathetic to the Nationalist mindset, if not to the Anons themselves. When the time comes, they will try to kill each other and the Nationalists will win on account of having frontal lobes.Watch out for more candidates in the vein of Zohran Mamdani. Politically demographically, you'll see more of his kind appear on the political left. And you will eventually see openly pro-white and anti-Israeli candidates running for office on the right. Both oppose Israel, and both will appear sooner than you think.
>>64722391Your theory comes down to /pol/ and reddit dislike Israel so really they lost. This is arab tier cope. 4chan and Reddit dont decide geo politics. The rest of the arab would recognizing kikeland is 100% more likely then the palestinians winning. What even constitutes palestinians winning? Hamas and Fatah marching into tel Aviv and deporting all the yids? At the end of the day money talks and even the arabs realize the jews can offer them more sweet sweet shekels as opposed to the palestinians which are a money pit.
>>64713915It’s been non-stop thirdie seethe across the entire board for the last three days.
>>64714493>>64714503>>64714739Where is your rebuttal?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Abu_Shabab
>>64715335No. They didn't.
>>64722286>Israel will loseThere is no universe where Israel "loses". Unless money in of itself is abolished, Israel will always have support.
>>64723032>see Israeli backed Palestinians do it>completely ignores Hamas Lol, lamo.
>>64710714>war>jews arbitrarily bombing schools and hospitals with zero accountability. >Always making up lies about secret Hamas training grounds with a smoking hole full of dead people as evidencewow, such badass, many heroes
>>64722286>>64721928>>64722391>>64723411>>64723032>MUH 2 MORE GENERATIONS YOU'LL SEE>*pisses pants in UN-issued diapers*
>>64723411Sure would be a shame if Hamas members have admitted they use hospitals to store assets and we have footage of different armed men fighting from hospitals.https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-19/>The Geneva convention (1949)>Section 2, Article 19>The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded.>The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants which have not yet been handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy.LOAC are straightforward,if you stockpile guns and uninjured militants, actively fight from within, or otherwise use a hospital for anything other than just treating injured combatants, then yes, the enemy has the legal justification to attack said locations, as per the actual laws of war. Pearl-clutching about hospitals after /pol/estine memory-holed the Al-Ahli hospital bombing by Hamas and PIJ is especially hypocritical, but let's face it, if it weren't for double-standards /pol/estine would have no standards at all. https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2023/10/statement-from-the-department-of-national-defence-and-the-canadian-armed-forces-on-the-recent-strike-at-al-ahli-hospital-in-gaza.html
>>64723629>>64723840Imagine effort posting this hard to defend Israel
>>64714070Israel is smaller now than it was back in 67'.
>>64723873>three sentences summarizing a position and copy-pasting the legal text you're referencing>"effort posting"
>>64723916You make a very semitic point Rabbi
>>64710714>yet another JIDF threadI can not wait for the civil war to go hot so I can behead all kikes in my neighborhood
>>64723937>>64723928You won't do shit, go back to crying to the UN
>>64723392>>64723629Again, where is your rebuttal? And israeli soldiers admitted to wearing adult diapers, apparently to seem badass they are so devoted to the job, then they got mocked, then they forced palestinian prisoners to wear them and then mocked them for it.You really are pathetic hypocrites.
>>64723840Like the isreali hospital that had an underground IDF base?
>>64714333>If Israel did this from day one there would be no Hamas.They did.
>>64724289You sound about 12 years old.
>>64726672No, I'm talking 1948.
>>64726660>Israeli diaper soldiers Wew lad, imagine falling for basic bitch photoshop. >Hamas diapers You motherfuckers literally steal them to use.
>>64713791If Palestinians stopped being pricks and just remained peaceful, this would end. The problem is that they still have the dream of >hurr durr we drive the joos to the sea, alahu akckbar alalalalalaThey're fucking retards. I'm not saying Israel is doing the right things, but it's really hard to defend the other side when this whole thing started because they chimped out and killed civilians at a peace concert on 07OCT2023.
>>64726700You aren't fooling anyone. Now cry to jannie like the pathetic bitch you are.
>>64726710Palestinians are literally retarded, but jews are genuinely evil.
>>64726710>drive the jews into the seaWhich shows you why there can be no peace. >Israel >we just want to exist >Palestine >KILL EVERY JEW IN THE AREA The Palestinians have the right to resist militarily, but they don't have the right to go house to house and gun down people cowering in their homes.
>>64726712>reeeeeeeeeI accept your defeat.
>>64726717They're not, though. There was liberal opposition to Likud and Netanyahu before October seventh. It evaporated because of those attacks. You can't tell a people who are constantly attacked by terrorists that just want them dead that they need to go easy on the people doing this.
>>64713498>plain jdamsAt this point I honestly doubt the majority was jdams, maybe laser gbu at a pinch
>>64726765i think we saw some spice guidence kits in iran but in gaza its almost all JDAM that was the main weapons.i mean some of it was done with 120mm/155mm/76mm/rocket arty and bombs from zik drones but those are all weapons with under 20kg explosives
>>64726666>like the thing that didn't existah yes!
>sneak attack on Iran failed>regime change failed>Iranian nuclear/ballistic program alive and producing @ record numbers(cant bomb knowledge)>tel-aviv and haifa suffer massive unprecedented damage the world is forbidden to report on (its THAT bad)>ZERO HOSTAGES rescued (Trump did it)>Hamas a globally credible political entity working with international community>israeli government in collapse, infighting tearing it to pieces>nationwide rioting and unrest, haredis about to go bonkers>global condemnation for unimaginable crimes against humanity>civil unrest daily over every corruption scandal imaginable>bibisitting humilation ritual, has to tongue Trumps ass>Palestinian statehood is happening and non-negotiable>LMAO "international coalition of Arab allies" to over see the "peace" on israeli soil>Saudi nuclear deal, Saudi f35s (total abandonment of 'muh qualitative edge law)>Turkey F35's and Turkey going to police Palestinian DMZ on israeli soil >"West Bank" discussion is over forever. no greater israel, ever smotrich and gvir are going to prison>kike backed Syrian factions being dismantled>settler terrorists are have the global communities attention, and will be dealt with in finality>US boots on israeli soil "enforcing peace"AHAHAHHAHA lmao, israel couldnt have failed harder if it actually triedisrael unironically destroyed itself failing its pathetic 7-front war
>>64713865The Heebs had their panties in a twist at any Pan-Arab political movement, even impotent ones like Baathism. Remember that Iraq launched Scuds at Israel in the first Gulf War because they perceived it to be the factor that got the US involved, it wasn't in that case but they thought it was and the jews got pissy about it. Thus Mossad gave a bunch of bullshit "intelligence" to the CIA which provided a casus belli, and afterward pressured the US to dump all the local officials with ties to Baathism rather than pay them off or subvert them ala the British Empire. So you had a complete lack of control and alienated local notables which made Iraq politically untenable to run. Now whether this means that Israel was happy with Iraq's current state or not is another matter, just because jews conspire doesn't mean their plans actually facilitate their interests. We know they were supporting certain ISIS cells in Iraq but the jews have done that with lots of Wahabis over the decades so it means little.Conversely there was little impetus on the part of Israeli for the US activities in Afghanistan. Sure there were lots of libtard jews grifting for feminists interpretive dance courses in Kabul and shit but that's just jews jewing, not a specific political program on the behalf of Israel. I want to kill all jews everywhere, but Arabs are also stupid and don't do themselves many favors by behaving as they do. Nor does Israel get everything it wants even with its disgusting influence in American politics. >>64727243You are as delusional as any Jew-lover, the entire thing is pretty much a wash for both sides. Israelis retarded internal politicking came to a head because of the war, but it was just a continuation of what's been happening for a decade. As for the "damage" to Israel, minimal, its nothing. The chabad parties and factions certainly failed, but the Palis didnt' win either.
>>64721928>why the fuck are there so many browns?Because jews and their pet libtards spent 70 years advocating their deliberate importation. I assume that was a rhetorical question. The only demographic of any real size(10 million +) in any industrialized nation which breeds at above replacement fertility are the right wing whites in America, even darkie imports get sterilized by the bread and circuses almost immediately.Jews pull shit, doesn't mean that shit works out every time. The chabad faction prioritizes Israeli territorial integrity. The libtard faction and even the more hardline zionists in the US see white nationalism as threat number 1. Support for Israel is likely to falter, but that doesn't mean their state is going under in the next 30 years. Unless it is glassed by some hypothetical genocidal white nationalist America. But in that case such a state is likely to glass many more targets, maybe even the Palis.
>>64713768I wish Jennifer Connelly was my mommy.
Like clockwork, everytime. Heebs could kill every pali and somebody will spin it "but they really lost". No amount of screeching will make that a reality.
>>64714130>But the enemy of my enemy is my friend.Maxim 29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemies enemy. No more, no less.
>>64727243may I see this massive unprecedented damage? >Somehow jews magically hid all evidence of it in the age of social media/phones and satellite pics
>>64727389>>64727335>>64727243>64726712>64723937>WE'RE WINNING>CEASEFIRE NOW
>>64726700>screech about fake "IDF diapers" for decades because of a photoshopped pic from 2006>meanwhile we have ACTUAL VIDEO of hamas pissing themselves>it doesn't count because...reasons!lol
>>64727529>gAzA iS sTaRvING >obese Hamas >thinks this is a gotchaKEKEK
>>64727445my point in making the thread is we've never seen these tactics before and they seem to be wildly successfulcould the army be geared and trained to fight like this instead of improvising its way into fighting like that
>>64727648Entire thread is fighting about bullshit and barely any talk about the topic.Lets get back on track.D9 bulldozers seem to be pretty damn effective, would have loved em when I was in the seabees.
>>64727335>the Palis didnt' win either.lmao, YES they didthere WILL be an internationally recognized Palestinian state, and there is nothing israel can do to stop it. periodthe endisrael can say:>"thank you ben gvir! thank you smotrich!"for the privilege too
>>64727514>may I see this massive unprecedented damage?yes you may
>>64727745>side of an apartment building>civilian houseWoah IDF will never recoverIran spent billions to kill 20 civilians btw while the entire military leadership was ravaged. Literal 100:1 kill ratio
>>64727738Here’s ur Palestinian state broGetting smaller by the day, without Hamas even fighting back anymore
>>64727745Doesn’t look like unprecedented massive damage to looks like a few damaged civilian structures. Iran lost thousands including lots of military assets (on video) and key leaders. Israel lost 1 off duty soldier and 27 civilians
>>64727389It did take Rhodesia quite a while to fall, and South Africa stayed white rule till 1994, so yes, the 30 year thing is possible. We might be shitposting from nursing homes by the time the Israeli government is finally unable to keep its jew majority government tenable in the face of economic sanctions.Rhodesia won any open confrontation against ZANLA that occurred. They killed marxist niggers at a 15:1 K/D ratio. Yet Rhodesia still no longer exists - because they were sanctioned to hell and back, and could no longer afford to keep the nation as it was. Niggers like >>64727523 hyperfixate on gory videos of individual kills when what they should be extremely worried about is shit like the Eilat port being totally shut down and bankrupt.>https://www.timesofisrael.com/debt-ridden-eilat-port-hurt-by-houthi-blockade-seeks-aid-to-help-it-stay-afloat/Israel went to war with Egypt back in 1967 because of access to the Red Sea, for the Eilat port, They killed, what, 15,000 arabs to keep Eilat open. And now it's gone bankrupt and closed. Israel has only been able to keep its Pali political policies because they have a functioning economy. And they only have a functioning economy because America has been backing their political policies and preventing BDS boycotts or sanctions from having any effect. And the American support is fading.By contrast, the Palis don't really have an economy. Sanctions don't mean jack shit to refugee camp residents. A closed port doesn't mean shit to people who have been under naval blockade for decades, or have no access to the sea.You're a hell of a lot more optimistic than me about those population numbers though. There are always more browns that can be imported, and the white population of America may end up in a fucked up inverse of the South African situation - instead of white enclaves, the cities and suburban sprawl of miles around will become brown, and whites are relegated to rural and rural suburban areas.
>>64727750>>64727753>>64727759>lots of military assets (on video) and key leaderslmao but enough about israels unimaginable loss in the 12day war it startedlol just embargo the news, and pretend it never happened!!!
>>64727759>Doesn’t look like unprecedented massive damage to looks like a few damaged civilian structuresuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
