I still don't fathom why the AA failed
At least one of the Buks was destroyed sitting in the exact same spot it was photographed in months ago. As underwhelming as Russian tech has been, I'm tempted to put a higher degree of blame on operator incompetence, some form of stand down order or a non-kinetic severing of the command network combined with restrictive standby orders
Because Russians were involved
>>64716527/thread
You have no idea how retarded brown third-world retards are. The Global South is basically just a bunch of retards and their retarded corrupt despots on top.
Brown operators (yes, this includes russians - they are honorary browns)
I imagine in a country with lots of corruption and no patriotism you can just wire 100s of soldiers $1000 usd each to turn off the radars
There are no photos of dead guards, only destroyed APCs and AALooks like CIA glowies paid the military to stay away and Maduro surrendered to spare his country and family
>>64716659Oh there were some dead hombres, though not much.
>>64716499they didn't failthey simply weren't mannedmaduro was handed to the us by his own men
>>64716499You need more than just air defenses to defend your airspace. Something tells me you already know that.
Having reviewed the footage of the extraction it would have required at least two and maybe even three KPVs not to mention an entire squad of troops that were awake to stop it, clearly nothing could be done.
>>64716499Full EW suite, with 6 growlers in the air. They couldn't do shit.
>>64716499The CIA was in there for over 6 months bribing and prepping Venezuela's whole defense infrastructure to fail just at the right time anon.
>>64716659Cuba claims 30+ of their soldiers died. Maduro had a Cuban guard force protecting him, because he didn't trust Venezuelans.
>>64716695>>64716659>>64716606This is the socialist-shill narrative by the wayThe reality is that something like a 100 dudes died and the troops were at home celebrating new years or left at base with no access to their gear because the Maduro gov wouldn't leave them armed because of the fear they would use it to attack the government. Most of the country also had all their military garrisons emptied because of this too.
It has to be operated by competent personnel both on an unit and whole network level.
>>64716565>they are honorary brownsSteadily moving towards actual browns with each month.
>we didn’t need that AA because muh CIA was going to blow it up anywayFace saving culture is so pathetic.
>>64716659what do you expect from a photograph when what we saw of the operation was shit getting nailed by missilesnot drones and small arms, just like straight up hydras and hellfires... the guards are here there and over yonder
>>64716499SEAD operations for big ticket items, I suspect lack of trust corrupt dictatorships tend have with regular grunts is MANPADS did nothing. If you are too scared to issue missiles to actual firing units in fear of them shooting down regime big wigs... you are kinda fucked.
>>64716499>I still don't fathom why the AA failedFeels like this question comes up a lot when ever some nation is suddenly attacked because just about every time the attack goes off without a hitch. Personally I just think that the answer is that people don't have itchy trigger fingers when it comes to launching missiles at aircraft when there isn't an active shooting war going on. No one wants to blow up an airliner or a news copter or a private jet or a hobbyist or even your own training mission because someone panicked seeing a radar signature. So the missile operators shove it up the chain of command and commanders shoves it up the chain of command and by the time someone says fire either the attack is over or the launchers have been hit. There is also lax peace time readiness rates to consider which would make this process even slower. I remember when a Russian drone crashed in a NATO country and everyone was like "why didn't NATO shoot it down" or "NATO couldn't shoot it down" and I bet the reality was that they were probably worried it was just some guy in a Cessna. There is just so much shit flying around in peace time and when a war starts all of that stops and anything that isn't you is fair game.
>>64726119>This is the socialist-shill narrative by the wayIt always has been.>communism doesn’t work because of traitors >the CIA is omnipotent and omnipresent
>>64726190Venezuela wasn't really suddenly attacked though, the US started manoeuvring around it months ago.
>>64716499>watch russian AA fail for 4 years>watch russian AA fail in venezuelareally makes you think huh
>>64716499>0 casualties on US sideit was an inside job
>>64726375>Venezuela wasn't really suddenly attacked though, the US started manoeuvring around it months ago.You could say the same about Russian drones and NATO airspace, Russia was making a ton of threats then too. The bar for launching missiles at every unknown radar contact is a lot higher than the US is maneuvering around us. Hell, even if they knew it was US aircraft, they probably would still be wary because they'd view it as a threat display like when Russia or China flies their bombers at the edge of the US's air space. Probably scared of starting a war.Also I doubt anyone in Venezuela or the US for that matter seriously thought he was going to bomb South America like some Middle Eastern country let alone abduct their President. That is an utterly insane escalation.
Has any commie shill proposed maduro was always a CIA asset yet?
>>64726436It's not an insane escalation. The Venezuelan government has been asking for it by sabre-rattling against Guyana, mantaining links with Russia, Iran, FARC, etc. Venezuela has been considered a toxic dictatorship for a long-time and most governments in the region have kept at arms lenght from it, they are suspended from several Latin American regional organizations for rigging elections, etc.What has Latin America worried are Trump's threats against Colombia, Mexico, etc. which corrupt as they may be, still maintain democratic systems of government. That would be a dangerous escalation. Nobody is weeping for the bus driver. (Well, maybe that retard Petro is, but he is on his way out.)
>>64726452Pol seems to believe so.
>>64716499>just-as-good but actually better because it's cheaper!>turns out to be a waste of resources against anyone who isn't equally impoverished
>>64716527FPBP
>>64716499>Venezuelans were the problem and not glorious BRICS equipment.Ranks right up there with:>All those videos of Venezuelans celebrating are AI, comrade.
>>64716527Yup, nobody thought of making 100 heated inflatable Buks and playing shellgames? Nobody thought of moving maduro between 15 safehouses? Nobody thought of stringing steel cables across every open area? Maduro was too stupid to sleep in a bank vault? when a carrier battlegroup is parked offshore it means SOMETHING is happening, and at this point nightime helicopter raids should be expected.
venezuela is fairly big and caracas is right on the coast. it is entirely possible that mych of Venezuela's AA was on the other side of the country and didn't fire a single shot. Where was Venezuela's air force though?
>>64716499Because the growlers shut it off.
>>64726713>a handful of barely functional decades old jets with>with pilots that get less flight hours a year than a poor hobbyistThey decided not to commit suicide.
>>64726566>The Venezuelan government has been asking for it[kidnapping of maduro] by sabre-rattling against Guyana, mantaining links with Russia, Iran, FARC, etc>The Ukrainian government has been asking for it[annexation of several regions] by sabre-rattling against Russia, mantaining links with the USA, Germany, Lithuania, etc
>>64726726>im a fighter pilot and i'll have to fight and possibly die in a conflict? nooooooso Venezuela's air force was just incompetent and disloyal thenalso>decades oldsame can be said of every modern fighter except maybe the su-57
>>64726713Why would they leave their capital city undefended when there's been US ships hanging out off the coast for months? The real answer is that S-300s and Buks literally can't touch F-35s and F-22s
>>64726713the other side of the country is deep rainforest. like, natives taking 9 year old wives deep.
>>64726782To illustrate. Here's your air defense system bro. Just shoot down some modern stealth aircraft.
>>64716499>I still don't fathom why the AA failedYou probably have a low IQ. Too low to contemplate electronic warfare SEAD, and stealth aircraft. Many such cases.
>>64726801Real answer is it was foggy so IR was limited, the US dumped a lot of concentrated decoys and chaff into a relatively small area and had months to plan the operation against a disorganised and static anti-air defence network.America had declared a nofly zone for weeks at this point so no planes would take off. This meant their only threat was AA, AAA and manpads as well as small arms, which are less effective during foggy conditions.Manpads had limited visibility, IR is king in that situation and those assets were scouted months in advance.
>>64726623
>>64726858>Be enemy>Have MANPADS>Never needed to use those eaver>Communications and early warning radar goes down>2AM in the morning a few days after New YearsDo you really expect them to have their MANPADS boys out there ready to fire? MANPADS are only really good for less than 2 miles. I don't think Maduro is going to have his MANPADS AA teams close to him. Similarly he is not going to have a battalion of infantry within range to pop him. All of these dictators are worry about their own people first and foremost. Also, a lot of these retards have no idea of the capabilities of the US Military.
>>64716527This. Russian radar systems are manually operated to such an extent that's genuinely hard for people who've only ever used modern NATO systems to understand. Their performance or lack thereof is down to operator skill.
>>64726992>Do you really expect them to have their MANPADS boys out there ready to fire?The concept of well disciplined and organised forces is alien outside of the west. I once heard Jim Storr say that at some point the military of a poor country is going to just concentrate on getting all the small and unsexy things right, and when they do they'll seriously bloody the nose of a western power who underestimates them. At the time I was a junior officer and I was like "No way this guy is just a fuddy duddy old dude who is shilling for the most complex kind of warfare he can understand," but now that I'm older and I've seen how different militaries operate, I am completely convinced that he was right and we only get away with all this shit because literally only the west, specifically the Anglosphere in 2026, actually takes the basics of warfare seriously.
>>64727040>only the west, specifically the Anglosphere in 2026Maybe notwithstanding some regional outliers, but I'm really not sure on that.
>>64726992Yeah they probably did, we even saw one fire on a helo earlier in the thread but miss.The issue was likely centralisation of forces and lack of distrubuted anti air. Probably didn't trust manpads on a hill somewhere where they can't be monitored so when the bases got hit they were all under fire.
>>64716527Incompetence of flat out betrayal or desertion. Considering the CIA had at least one informant that gave them Maduro's location and the exact layout if his compound, having moles in air defense is not far fetched.
>>64726737Not comparable at all starting with the fact that Zelensky was the conciliatory "let's negotiate with Russia candidate".You fucked up zegro.
>>64716499>They just turned it offThey just turned it off?>They just turned it offWell I don't need air defense batteries anyway, we have MANPADs, I'll just go find those>Turned the lights off
>>64726737His position was wrong, but there is a better (and more relevant) argument. Russia is committing drone harassment/ADIZ shenanigans. The US was parking a CSG on your doorstep while blowing up your (criminal) civilians. Getting back to the point of the thread, that's a much more overt security posture. Which is exactly why Ukraine- due to Crimea and the Donbas War- was already trying to stockpile arms before the Invasion in '22. Helicopters with missiles have been blowing up boats in your littoral zone since last September. You're not going to blow away the first helicopter without a transponder? Even after you start hearing explosions? Because there is too much civilian helicopter traffic? In the definitive third world, authoritarian, underdeveloped export economy?There wasn't too much civilian helicopter traffic, and their trigger fingers were itchy enough. I don't buy the explanation >>64726190 offers.
>>64727021The perfect autistic savant radar-watcher could probably target invading alien craft with buk, but the digital radar systems don't depend on operator skill any more than their western counterparts.
Recently I've been seeing the line "it was only a couple days after New Years, of course they weren't ready" like in >>64726992 . Is it just expected that a nation's air defense network has an extended weekend off for that?
>>64727021>>64727137Here's your radar operator station. Good luck.
>>64727021>>64727137Of course, that's assuming they have the most modern upgraded Buk.This is what the older ones look like.
>>64727162Also the screens are all turned off because there is no power.
>>64726713>Where was Venezuela's air force though?I mean if they had time to react they'd probably do what the Iraqi pilots did during Iraqi freedom and refused to get in the planes because it's suicide.
>>64727169Now we're talking.I don't need luck, I'm trained to use that shit although the original soviet controls are a bit different. Too bad FDF's buk missiles are decades past their expiry date.
>>64727083Any talk of "betrayal" or "desertion" is cope. If anything, Venezuela was on maximum military readiness. This is the best they can do.A common delusion is that all militaries are roughly equal, outside of things like equipment and "don't siege Leningrad, ignore Africa" decisions. But militaries aren't equal, turd world countries have no experience in things like defending against a thunder run or dead of night air raid. They can rely on American complacency to set up ambushes, they can wait out American domestic appetite for war, they can expend thousands of lives into the jaws of the American military machine until they gum up the works. But they have no ability to actually defeat the US, as the US trains harder, has more operational experience, and simply isn't a tinpot dictatorship whose military officers are selected for loyalty rather than competence.
>>64727237>and simply isn't a tinpot dictatorship whose military officers are selected for loyalty rather than competence.We'll see in 3 years. I'm not convinced this won't be our fate in the near term given Murca's current appointments are all based on loyalty.The military is just still on the greased tracks from precious competent appointments, well defined and trained structure and decades of competent training, this can be broken down over time and I am concerned over readiness.
>>64727257You've got political brainworms.
>>64716527>>64716545>>64727021>>64727083comment seems pretty buk-broken.So either the US military is so powerful that it obliterated the Sino-Russo tech, make no mistake, a lot of it was Chinese and the Chinese are parading around as Russians online to draw attention that way.OR!The US is so Politically powerful that they can get an entire military to sit by and let it's hardware and hardliners be destroyed.Either way, anyone going up against the US is probably fucked.
>>64720082anon, you know that jamming pods exist?
>>64716499Kinda embarrassing that even the Somalis were able to thwart a JSOC mission a few decades ago with bunch of small arms and technicals in Mogadishu.
>>64727270I don't think he does.
>>64727040I mean just another night dozens of soldiers in Caracas started blasting with everything they had b/c they thought they saw a drone. Knew a guy once who was nearly killed in Chad btw because the army got scared of their own shadows / evil witches that turn into black cats at night to steal your penis and began firing at everything in their general vicinity.>>64726525I don't think it's necessary to believe there were insiders who flipped any switches, but it's becoming more apparent that the VP (now pres) and her brother had been working something out with Trump through his envoy Grenell for months, at least enough that team Trump had some idea that they're people they could work with if Maduro got gone.You also mentioned Chavismo. What a lot of /k/ might not know is there's a sizeable number of left-wing Chavistas who became disillusioned with Maduro years ago. The new pres, Delcy Rodriguez, got shitcanned by Chavez who despised her, and she came back with Maduro. The descriptions I've been reading from those disillusioned left Chavistas sounds a bit like Animal Farm. Like here you had a regime in which strong idealistic left-wing components once existed, then over time transformed into a grubby police state run by sleazy opportunistic people who rose up in that system and have since plastered the dead former leader's eyes up on buildings all over Caracas. It's like how "every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and turns into a racket" so you end up with the equivalent of Jackson Hinkle as officials in your socialist government (look up Rafael Lacava) who is just grifting the shit out of people. So what they're going to do now is make deals with Trump and invite the U.S. back in to exploit the oil while pretending nothing has happened. It's going to be weird and they're also going to try to sell what they're doing to the tankie sort of crowd by saying it's CIA propaganda if you express any criticism of what they're doing.
Also when I say disillusioned left-Chavistas I'm referring to Venezuelans in Venezuela who mostly communicate in Spanish and some others, but not the typical leftist you'll encounter in the U.S. who likes Maduro. There are specific politicians, journalists, etc.
>>64727480>you had a regime in which strong idealistic left-wing components once existed, then over time transformed into a grubby police state run by sleazy opportunistic people who rose up in that system and have since plastered the dead former leader's eyes up on buildings all over Caracas.Chavez always had an authoritarian project in mind, he staged a right-wing nationalist coup 1993 which failed, was amnestied, fled to Cuba, got trained by Cuban minders, returned to Venezuela larping as an anti-establishment social democrat, was elected, carried out a constitutional reform taylor-made to his agenda, then shifted hard-left and by the latter years of his rule he was already rigging elections, imprisoning the opposition, nationalizing and shutting down opposition media, etc, etc.He was just incredibly lucky that oil prices skyrocketed to record heights between 2003 and 2013 which enabled him to consolidate his dictatorship. He also died just as oil prices tanked back to their historical average, which made the economy collapse into hyperinflation because all his socialist freebies were based on an unsustainable oil revenue to begin with.But yeah, the people you mention do exist, mostly retards unable to get a grasp of how it was Chavez who ruined the economy of Venezuela, the bus driver got pinned with most of the blame among the "true" chavistas.But he was authoritarian from the get-go, his whole project was. Communism / socialism was just the means to an end (and I would argue this is true for all communist leaders, the endgame can only be a totalitarian dictatorship)
>>64727524>he staged a right-wing nationalist coup 1993 which failedAnd no, this isn't a typo btw. His correspondence with other far-right coup plotters in early 1990s South America has just been memoryholed.
>>64716499It didn't fail. They were ordered to stand down. The whole thing was an inside job.
It’s a 60/40 thing. 60 percent brown ppl incompetence 40 percent Russian equipment being shit
>>64727257Can't wait to vote for Him a 4th time
>>64726782because the other borders need defense too. or maybe they're retarded idk>>64726792the populated portion is still fairly large
>>64727553how did they convince the ones that got shot?
>>64716659>the US can simply buy the loyalty of enemy militaries and force their leaders to surrenderThat's certainly a cope.
>>64726793>>64727162>>64727169>is that... a panel of buttons? and a CRT display? where is the touchscreen? where is the the react.js UI vibecoded by pajeets? where is the chatgpt button? nooooooo
>>64727289Of course they are.But when you remind people of it too often they take steps to fix it.They form counter alliances, they start looking at some wmd to at least be able to punish, and they throw tantrums and resort to terrorism and attacking civilians when they can do nothing against the military.Of course those things then rally the American public behind the MIC in destroying them but they do those things out of desperation.>>64727304That is because they become such cowboys they stop taking every advantage so things are more fun, classified tech takes longer to be discovered and copied, and the budget is low enough to need less approval to do more frequent cool stuff. Then something bad happens and it is assumed the military was doing its best and not just playing cheap games.While this operation was being pushed by the President directly. It wasn't some specops mission trying to keep a low profile on an unnoticed budget.The US is beyond everyone by a huge margin. Why do you think jews are always giving American technology away to enemies to give them some parity?From the atom bomb and h bomb, to China's missile tech, China's bioweapon's program including US funding in Wuhan gain of function research, Jet technology, etcThe jews are always trying to give the enemy at least a chance.
>>64726596In all fairness that's fine as long as you're a SA nation NOT pissing off the USA.
>>64716499It's Russian made garbage, Cuba might have more luck with old Soviet tech than whatever is getting pumped out by Putin's Russia.
>>64716527fpbp >>64716499It's almost as if groom lake is being used to test our equipment against theirs or something...
>>64727819That's the joke.
>>64727696Maybe they expected 30 of them in the wreckage, brother
>>64727809>electronics from the Brezhnev-era still more than good enough against transport helicopters. the problem with venezuelan AA was between the chair and the keyboard.
the us are experts at dismantling air defense, simply because vietnam was the best teacher and they put a ton of effort into it.they'd quickly suppress and destroy ukraine's if they were fighting them.
>>64716527One thing that a Ukrainian pointed out when comparing Ukraine and Venezuela was that when Russia did their giant airstrike on the Ukrainian Airforce and air defenses they found their missiles hitting empty fields, empty parking lots, and airbases.Why?Because the Ukrainians knew the attack was coming and deployed and took off.That's why their shit worked and Venezuela's didn't.Cause their units were in the air, on the move, or dug in in a place that Russia didn't know about.Venezuela in contrast had their shit laying out in the same place they always did.
>>64727846Brother there is so much footage of Soviet/Russian AA being completely useless you have to be fucking joking.
>>64727849sure but the USA still lost 3 helicopters to niggers armed with RPGs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993)really the only conclusion is that venezuelan troops were extremely incompetent
>>64727879I'm sure that nothing was learned from that incident and that no improvements have been made to prevent something similar from occurring in the 30 years since it happened.
>>64727862>there is so much footage of Soviet/Russian AA being completely uselesstransport helicopters are much easier to detect and destroy than tactical missiles (very fast) and fpv drones (small enough to slip between the proximity sensors on some AA missiles)
>>64727886And yet Ukraine was able to launch helicopter raids into Russian territory on multiple occasions. Literal low flying general aviation aircraft full of explosives were allowed to strike strategic targets such as airbases. At some point you have to admit it's not just operator error. It's also designer error, builder error, training errors, etc etc
>>64727883unless we learned how to make helicopters immune to heavy machineghns and shoulder-fired rockets, this sort of raid should have still ended in failure.
>>64727879They learned a lot from that, and the kill ratio was like 125 to 1, that was with lack of air support and Clinton not allowing heavy armor because he didn't want to escalate.
>>64727903just fly higher and/or faster bro
>>64727913>>64727940OTOH the Venezuelan military should have been much more competent than somali militants
If Maduro had prep time could he have staved off the raid?
>>64727983If he had prep time he wouldn't be trying to get to a safe house after just waking up. I feel like he was fed to the dogs. That said No one got killed on the American side so that's good because there was fire fighting so you still expect a death or two.
>>64716499They asked permission and the generalissimos agreed to let them. Hostomel would have been a lot easier if the Russians had gotten permission first too.
>>64727903you dont need to be immune, just good enough to get in and out
>>64716499Russia turned them off. Like they did in Iran. All nations selling complex military hardware have backdoor/remote deactivation capability built into them. Anyone who isn't building their own hardware is at the mercy of the whims of great power politicians.
>>64727696they were cubans, they needed to be shot in the coup anyway
>>64716499it's not hard to understand Israel already cracked the whole how to take anti air decades ago, it's the main reason they abandoned patriot and went for a multi layered system, cold war anti air system tends to have max 230km range at most, on it's costlier versions, Israel has glide bombs with more range and even 2000km range albms (golden horizon).That means a plane in florida cost can take down air defenses in Caracas and the speed this shit re entries earth is probably 7000km per hour by the time a radar detects it it's joever.And that is assuming us air force does not has it's own toys of similar capabilities they never talked to prevent an arms race in their allies or glowies from the usa can't use something like spike to take defenses from the ground
>>64727975russian helis were shooting chaff at least. also im pretty sure they were supported given how much ukraine was being bombed in the early days
>>64728429and ukraine still shot some down iirc even though the AFU was a disorganized clusterfuck in the first few days
>>64727846>still more than good enoughShould I point out that non-upgraded ZSU-23-4M takes 18 seconds to process a target instead of 0.2 seconds
>>64726566Today on the radio here in a northern Euro country (not Denmark), pundits were seriously discussing that we need a new world order that excludes American power and we should maybe be more friendly with China. Mainstream media. And thats mostly because of the threats against Greenland. It absolutely was an escalation. Not in the methods, because we saw the same with Noriega, but because of the surrounding rhetoric.
I wonder what the US used to knock out the electricity/ radars in Caracas. Occums razor points to the glowies shutting off the grid- physically or remotely through a zero day exploit. And the radar through EW and jamming. But I specifically remember seeing a post about the radars repeatedly rebooting and not working- and I heard rumors about a satellite weapon or something else from various sources.
>>64727162>two-key lock>keys close enough together that one person can turn them both*confused screaming*
>>64728458>Occums razor points to the glowies shutting off the grid- physically or remotely through a zero day exploit.Really? I would think it had something to do with all the explosions and burning shit. Maybe the 150 aircraft zipping around dropping bombs and strafing shit with dumbfire rockets.
>>64727237Anon, if you had any experience with third-world military or civil servants in general, you would know that the average grunt of even officer there has nowhere near the level of ethics and professionalism of Western armies. I'm not saying the CIA had moles in every single AA station in the country, but how motivated would a 2$/hour half-trained SAM operator would be to take on the US military after suffering the initial shock and awe strike that destroyed communications and power lines ? How many of them simply said "fuck it" and went home ? Them getting a few green bills to call in sick or fall asleep on that day is not unrealistic at all.
>>64728457Got nukes?Then get nukes. Until then, you're just poking the tiger while unarmed.
>>64726737>LithuaniaStill salty since 1612, eh?
>>64728457>pundits were seriously discussing that we need a new world order that excludes American power and we should maybe be more friendly with China.China isn't a friend and people who are seriously pushing for it are bought and paid by Beijing. While the US is being an absolute dogshit ally at the moment, people need to cool their heads and realize that in four years time the US will more than likely take a chill pill and become friendlier to Europe. However, Europe absolutely needs to become a geopolitical block capable of standing up for itself and vastly expand its military expenditure and aggressiveness.
>>64716499Because it's commie-jank operated by commietards (i.e. inferior in design and build quality).
>>64727748the /qa/ was misplaced
>>64728433In fairness, BBC was sending su30s/34s on low/mid level ccrp runs with dumb bombs over the first three days. Think package q but even more retarded
>>64716606ah yes, the mossad method
>>64729436>China isn't a friend and people who are seriously pushing for it are bought and paid by Beijing. China is not a friend, but it's quite literally too far away to be a military threat to Europe in any scenario. That's the motivation.
>>64729881perhaps right not directly, but to our interests and to the stability of our traderoutes? abso-fucking-lutely it is.it's also a political and cultural threat, considering the amount of fucking propaganda it pays for.
>>64729436Imagine letting a friend freeload off you for 80 years. And then that friend constantly backtalks you while you provide them with essential services. And then they buy premium steak and booze but don't share and laugh at you because you don't have steak and booze. That's basically how a good majority of Americans see Europe.
>>64726238>the CIA is omnipotent and omnipresentDon't forget >the CIA is also a comically incompetent gaggle of foils whom I mock in my smug reddit postsNo idea how you square that circle. Can the CIA kill all your top leaders and install an American puppet in a week or are they clowns?
>>64716499The word failed implies that it ever worked
>>64716499Soviet junk is only effective against other Soviet junk.
>>64728449>Should I point out that non-upgraded ZSU-23-4M takes 18 seconds to process a target instead of 0.2 secondsaccording to whom? anyway this is a moot point because1. yhe zsu-23-4 can be operated without radar. if you want to shoot down a helicopter, thus is more than good enough.https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA392785.pdf2. venezuela doesn't use it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Venezuelan_Armed_Forces
>>64716499>muh monkey model
>>64726423>>0 casualties on US side>it was an inside job>insta conspiracy Sometimes the simple answer is the right answer, just too simple for people to accept. I.E. we are just that good.
>>64728672> the average grunt of even officer there has nowhere near the level of ethics and professionalism of Western armiesImagine inventory control and command in that army. The SAMs would need an explicit directive from command, command likely had no possibility of coordinating anything and the grunts cannot do anything independently or else face what is probably extreme forms of corporal punishment. And thats for good reason because when you let grunts use SAMs independently you get Malaysian commercial jets falling out of the sky. More to the point once Maduro was in the air.
>>64726793>Just shoot down some modern stealth aircraft.>I can't reach the top panel because of my armor and vitamin deficiency as a child!
>>64727553>The whole thing was an inside job.Still pushing the conspiracy? Counterpoint, if the General flips sides, it's not an inside job any more.
>>64729881>military threat to EuropeFrance has shit in the Pacific. So does Bongland. They don't want China fucking around and USA especially doesn't. Though the Hawaii question regarding NATO is a weird area.
>>64731050>corporal punishmentThey should punish the Sargents.
>>64716499>I still don't fathom why the AA failedAdvance electronic interference to take radar and comms + precision strikes by F-35 stealth fighters to carve a path for Delta. You saw the pics of the destroyed Russian air defense. S-300 are old and well known. Don't tell me you believe that the US doesn't know how to deal with them.The only part it doesn't fully add up is the 5000 Igla-S the Venezuelans had and only used 1, that you can see in those videos that are all over the place. I attribute that one to incompetence. They probably were locked away in some armory while the troops were away for the holidays.
>>64729881This is quite literally why Europeans are in their current situation.
>>64729881>China is not a friend, but it's quite literally too far away to be a military threat to Europe in any scenario.according to Cauldron of Ghosts Ukrainian supremacists will wage war on Asian Confederacy, headquartered in Beijing.
>>64731383
>>64731404the wide man is wide because his lineage was artificially selected for hard manual labor and genetic slavery, not because the artist can't do perspectives
>>64729881>>64729436Lol fuck Americans. Let me promise you yanks something, we will 100% allow the Chinese to have bases up and down the european atlantic seafront if you fuck us over Greenland.
>>64731453No you want because your leaders are smarter than that and you are smarter than that.
>>64728130>puccia>great powerchoose one>>64728457>>64729436europe is not monolith. What is happening and I hope will continue is west euros actually having now their own skin on the line. With zegroidstan they could always hide behind seas and east europeans (poland, ukraine) back with no sense of urgency. With US there might be a big ocean between them BUT US has naval and air supremacy and most of western europe is accessible from the atlantic I hope burger bros go through with the agent orange greenland megalomania. Will be a welcome kick in the ass for the big europeans like french and UK. countering US in the atlantic is primarily naval and air force centric. Out of which latter has run off effects on east europe in containing the zigger plague. Everybody can see how depressingly overwhelming is western air force dominance. From 7 mil israel dominating 90 mil Iran in its own airspace to US abducting Maduro from his capitol bunker in his pajamas.
>>64731566The reality is that the USA as is has no real chance of attacking a united EU+UK. You can pretty much rule out the USAF in any conflict, like we're not going to sit and let them use tankers and our bases. The US Navy is big but the EU doesn't need to contest the Atlantic, it just needs to protect it's shoreline, which it's well equipped to do so. And even so, the US navy needs to maintain presence in the Pacific too, lest China take it's chance. I don't think the US could put more than 4 carriers against Europe, maybe 6 at a push. But their commitments to the pacific and maintenance cycles would mean that would be a real stretch. Meanwhile to defend Europe the EUUK has 950+ combat aircraftThe big problem the US has is submarines, the Europeans would always outnumber them in submarines because the US would need to keep a significant number of subs in the pacific to ward off China. I don't think even if the US Navy surged subs from the pacific they could manage parity. And the vast majority of the EUUK subs are attack submarines. You really don't want to be putting boomers into play to contest ocean spaces, they can do it but it's a massive waste. American subs are all nuclear powered in contrast to the EUUK being mostly electric diesel, but that's not such a big issue if they focus on playing defense.For coastal defense the Euros have like 500 fast attack patrol vessels, and they can absolutely fuck up the day of an Arleigh Burke they run into.The single biggest problem the Americans have is mine sweeping. The US Navy is catastrophically, terribly equipped for mine sweeping, running I think only 6 mine sweepers. By contrast the Euros have 150+, so the strategy is obvious, mass manufacture cheap naval mines and spam them fucking everywhere.In terms of surface combatants, the Arleigh Burke is qualitatively superior to most anything the Europeans have, but not by enough that they can't be dealt with. The Euros have roughly 100 frigates+destroyers to...
>>64731566>I hope burger bros go through with the agent orange greenland megalomania. Will be a welcome kick in the ass for the big europeans like french and UK. It would but then we would lose fren status :(Orange Tard will be out soon and I hope we can still be besties.
>>64731646the US's 81, and again the US has to split these between the Atlantic and the pacific and it needs to guard those carriers, which limits their ability to function. It'd be a hell of a messy fight, but my gut and looking at the numbers tells me that the Euros would win. Losing even 1 carrier would put such a huge hole in American fighting capability that they'd be at a huge disadvantage. Lose 2 and it's pretty much game over. And the Euros themselves would absolutely know this so they'd throw everything they can think of at the carriers.But if the UK turns traitor on us and works with the Americans, the calculus shifts again. It's very difficult for us to attack the little islanders, and it allows pretty much the entire USAF to be brought to bear right off our coast. At that point it becomes certain US+UK victory.So obviously the Euro strategy of choice is now to suck as much bong dick as possible and bring them back into the EU. This is out overriding strategic consideration going forward into a future where America is a hostile adversary.
>>64727289>So either the US military is so powerful that it obliterated the Sino-Russo techThat doesn't sound particularly powerful>The US is so Politically powerful that they can get an entire military to sit by and let it's hardware and hardliners be destroyed.Or the military is just incompetent.>Be Iraqis>Have outdated T-62s>Fight Western countries>Have dug in positions>Be getting sniped from beyond our maximum effective range by enemy tanks and ATGMs>Hold positions and wait for them to approachNever doubt turd worlder incompetence.
>>64731453>>64731646>>64731670The only thing sadder than whiny Euros is chinkoids larping as whiny Euros on the internet.
>>64731388>W I D E
>>64731675Address the arguments presented, fag.
Are chinks so subhuman they really think they can sow discord this abruptly? This is funnier than vatnigger coping Jesus Christ I guess it’s another American century
>>64731672Ah yes, I'm sure the Iraqis could have easily identified what was happening and formulated a counter on the spot against an enemy that outmatches them in every way
>>64731413Somehow, my post was deleted?
>>64729436It's 20 years too late for europe to pull out of their death spiral.
>>64731721Gonna need you to address the arguments presented, fag.
>>64731739I guess the mods didn't like the image
>>64731675>>64731721Why would a chink shill advocate for the EU and UK teaming up? That's exactly opposite to the message they would want to promote which would be to keep europeans divided.
>>64731735They literally treated tanks like self propelled artillery, their officer corps had no initiative and their doctrine was poorly formulated and the parts that were formulated were shit. It's the nature of third world militaries.
>>64731699
>>64729881The Ukraine War has shown that simply isn't true; If the DPRK can use the remnants of the Soviet Empire to project meaningful combat forces into Europe against a NATO proxy force the PRC sure as hell can do the same thing.
>>64731061It was a coup, someone just tricked the US into taking on the risk. The current administration is not exactly difficult to deal with, if you have something to give them.
>>64716527if it's been sitting there that long, shit probably broke down
