This stuff has been on the shelves at major retailers for a few years now. It's the M1152 ammunition that Winchester developed for the military as part of the same program that lead to the adoption of the Sig P320 as their standard sidearm. This stuff pushes a 115 grain bullet at 1320 fps and is loaded to a pressure of 39,700 psi. The SAAMI maximum pressure for 9mm is 35,000 psi, and the maximum for +p is 38,500 psi. That means that this ammunition is +p+ and will void the warranty of many handguns and risk damaging guns or even causing injury. Yet the box does not have any warning of these things and neither does the information available on any vendor sites.So what the fuck is going on with this?
You can fix this OP, mag dump these from a hi-point until you win a big enough lawsuit to retire, use your off hand.
>>64720165Reminds me of Federal 9bple, and oldie but goldie that has been pushing a 115 grain bullet to similar speeds using similar psi since the 1980s. But it’s listed as “+p+”, however it has no other warnings on its plain box. I use it as my carry ammo in a PX4 compact.
>>64720185You probably couldn't buy that at Bass Pro Shop though. This M1152 stuff is everywhere and people are obviously buying it without knowing what it is. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen unless there's something critical I'm missing here.
>>64720165Tell me you're a mouth breathing idiot without telling me you're a mouth breathing idiot.It's clearly labelled M1152. This is a known industry label for a very specific and non-standard type of 9mm ammunition. If the buyer doesn't understand that, it's on them. Because if you're going to throw any old ammo into your gun without knowing what everything on the box means, you're an idiot. It's the same thing as throwing the wrong weight of oil in your car, or the wrong transmission fluid, or the wrong any fluid. The labels mean things, they're specific, and you should know what they mean if you're going to use them. If you don't know, it's your own damn fault. In short : there is a clear label that tells you this is not standard 9mm ammo. If you're not smart enough to understand the label you're not smart enough to own the gun and you get what you deserve.
This is on the same level as worrying people are going to accidentally pump diesel into their car instead of gas, I mean, the handles are so close to each other!Let the people worry about themselves
>>64720242Ah i see what you mean. That’s an interesting point.
>>64720165any modern 9mm wont have a problem and any normie shooting this stuff won't shoot enough to notice.maybe one normie with grandpas luger might blow one up but thats it
>>64720165>Yet the box does not have any warning of these thingsIT SAYS RIGHT ON THE FUCKING BOX RETARD:>USE ONLY in modern 9mm firearms in good condition. These cartridges are loaded to military velocity and pressure, average pressure is 10% to 15% higher than industry standard pressure for 9mm Luger.You either don't actually own any of this ammo or are a literal retard who can't read.>injuryStandard pressure is important for ancient guns and for long term wear&tear, but actual safety PROOF testing is 130% pressure. A handgun rated for +P at 38.5k psi will have been proofed at 50k psi.Running an extra 1k over spec will make a gun dirtier faster and wear moving parts quicker but it's a minuscule thing overall and not a safety issue in the slightest.
>>64720165Because any modern gun worth a shit will eat a steady diet of this without issue.
>>64720165>That means that this ammunition is +p+ and will void the warranty of many handguns and risk damaging guns or even causing injury.It's Winchester, so out of a whole box, half of those will be underloaded and at least a quarter of the rest will have hard primers.So the actual damage caused by the round is mitigated by Winchester's quality control and it levels out, pretty ingenious actually.
>>64721302>So the actual damage caused by the round is mitigated by Winchester's quality control and it levels out, pretty ingenious actuallyMy dad bought 3 cases of 9mm Winchester White box, every box 3-5 rounds fail to eject from his P229. I gave him some of my 9mm reloads, 100% success rate. I bought 4000+ pieces of once fired .45 Auto brass. Only brand that has offset flash holes and pieces that refuse to go into the fucking shell holder is Winchester.If brass won't go into the damn shell holder, that's a serious problem...Remington ammo seems better at this point.
>>64720178Hi-Point would unironically tank boxes and boxes of this shit. You need something like this in 9mm.
>>64720165NATO doesn't measure pressure the same way as SAAMI. I don't know enough about the details to say whether it can explain a 1200psi difference, but I'd be real curious to see what M1152 tests at with a SAAMI standard barrel and transducer
>>64720165oh sweet, i've actually been looking for some cheap 9mm +p or even +p+ for my suomi, since that thing can chew through hot ammo like a truck
>>64720178Hi-Points are ugly and clunky, but they're built like bricks and they have no locking or delaying, if pressure gets too high it's going to extract and eject faster. Not necessarily properly, you'll reach a ceiling at some point (probably the brass itself), but if nothing stops the pressure pushing against the breech face from just shoving the slide/bolt with more force, that's going to be the path of least resistance.>>64722040Lucky fucker, I wish I had one of those.
>>64722364you can just build one you know
They also sell the "service grade" in weird boxes sometimes. I got a case that was packaged all in brown "target and practice" boxes but is still the 115gr flat nose and hot. I do wonder about folks putting that through like a skyye or something.
>>64720165Kill yourself, bootlicker.
My USP can take them, I'm sure it can.So will any pistol made for .40 chamber in 9mm like the Beretta 92A1
>>64721276grandpa's luger was made for hotter stuff than that though.
>>64723333Checked
>>64723333it was?
>>64720165"9mm" is not the name of a cartridge standardized by SAAMI or CIP. If you use ammo that isn't intended for your firearm, it's your own fault.
>>64721302>>64721346How long ago? Modern white box is very good, actual NATO loads. Never had an issue and they are all near +p
>>64723469The 9mm ammo my dad has was bought in 2024 and 2025.
Its Winchester Black Box now they made the ammo HxC and edgy so they put it in a black box now
>>64722788Do you mean an actual Kp31 or do you mean just a rattler in general? Sure, it's possible, but I'd like to own one which I could just go and have fun with on a range without any legal worries.>>64723333>>64723424Not quite, the Finns discovered that the extra hot ammo they loaded for their subguns was a bit too much for their pistols. The Lahti pistol fared worse, as it's not as durable, but the Luger pistols didn't take to that ammo particularly well either.
>>64723469I've been into guns for like 15 years at this point and I've had more issues with Winchester white box(AKA Super X) across years and calibers then I've had with everything else combined. It might sound like I'm dogpiling just to be part of the conversation but on god, that shit does not work well. I'd rather have tula.I have used like 200 rounds of this 1152 as well as 150-250 of picrel and it's the complete other story.
>SAAMI specs are law>how is this legalOP is misguided on what is law and what is manufacturers standardization so "they dont get sued". saami is basically a union for ammo makers; it doesnt mean shit really.>buffalo bore and underwood dont give no fucks about your saami specs
>>64724898i meant the kp31 sorry
