The dragon is the size of the ones in GOT, use GOT as the point of reference for most everything to be honest. If you want to be a furry abut this you can do a version where the dragon(s) are smart cookies that can talk and junk.
China from the 13th century onward and later throughout Eurasia in the 14th century.Bell hand cannons would render any dragon inneffective.
>>647272481905dragons can fly, dragon riders can draw maps and recount what they saw from the air, timely and accurate intel wins warsif you're risking your dragon to burninate peasant levies, you're a dumbass and you deserve what you got coming
Guns weapons make it all exponentially more difficult, but anything in the way of non-braindead uses for even rudimentary flying would make a dragon hard to deal with honestly maybe all the way up to the 1910s. Like, if there isn't a good telegraph line set up where you're working there is actually nothing that would stop a dragon wth a good plan of action from freely traversing your country and just checking off targets of opportunity from a doorstopper of a laundry list of objectives in the the heartland of another country like it's some kind of murder roadtrip.>"Duke Liuiufrench's nephew is supposed to live at this address so go and murder everyone at that mansion on the fourth morning of your flight plan over the other half of the country. Then go on your way to pick up the payload of demo charges that the collaborator conspiracy we're working with will have gathered and fly that payload into the dam by noon. Swoop the farm to your south for cattle meals then retire to the mountain under cover of night. >"Day five you are to continue flying west to outpace the news pf the prior attack and visit Duke Liuiufrench's mansion so you can kill him to then you will fly out to sea where the royal navy will receive you and your dragons. Also here is the list of plan Bs and Plan Cs and your emergency exfiltration paths in the events of XYZABC then come home and receave so many national awards you die from a broken back having to bear all those medals." People were going gaga over reading the exploits of navy guys and ace pilots later on. The adventures of Dragonriders would be hotter then a fucking sun.
>non-intelligent dragonsI'd say all the way up to the modern day, their role would just become increasingly specialized or alternatively modern military doctrine would adapt around them. Having dragons provide free incendiary CAS is not exactly something that infantrymen are just going to say no to because airplanes exist. The biggest issue is really feeding and housing them. Counter-dragon weapons and tactics would have been developed much earlier than the industrial era, so it's not like anti-aircraft guns and missiles would in and of themselves doom dragon riders.>intelligent dragonsEasily still relevant. Suddenly housing and feeding them is less of an issue as they're smart enough to acquire both for themselves, and would benefit even more from modern technology. We go from talking about whether dragons could be shot down by modern aircraft to how dragons could benefit from the radio, missiles attached to their body, and a HUD helmet. Ridiculous shit.
>>64727248they would be good for intel all the way to rifles
>>64727369>Like, if there isn't a good telegraph line set up where you're working there is actually nothing that would stop a dragon wth a good plan of action from freely traversing your country and just checking off targets of opportunity from a doorstopper of a laundry list of objectives in the the heartland of another country like it's some kind of murder roadtrip.And if there is a good telegraph line set up, guess what your day 1 target is.
somewhere around the napoleon erat. read the temeraire series (it's quite entertaining)
>>64727369The qualifications that would be asked of a prospective dragon rider must be out of this world. Straight up astronaut selection from when being an astronaut was actually an event.
>>64727248with proper tactics and thinking, late into the 19th century. A dragon and its rider being used as scouts and indirect fighting from altitude using simple gravity bombs would be a formidable force that a ground based army without one couldnt deal with.
the shock factor of seeing a dragon enter the battlefield would probably do more harm then it actually having to do any serious fight. Unless your specifically armed against such an animal, basing this off some of the dragons from game of thrones as an example, your basically sitting ducks to be food. Its the same effect an attack helicopter has one ground troops, except this thing can actively try and eat you not just shoot you.
>>64727248It's amazing how mainstream culture have made every fantasy creature fucking gay and pathetic. Dragons, vampires, zombies, the Frankenstein monster, etc. Hell, even orcs have basically become diversity hires who are described as noble savages.
>>64727248>mfw I recently had a dream about a dragon getting into a dogfight with two F-14's
I don't think dragons would do very well against heat seeking missiles.
>>64727842woke slop after book 2utterly faggot finaleyou know it's true>>64727248unless they are bulletproof and can heal quickly, they would barely survive the musket era>use GOT as the point of reference for most everythingwell they might carry some thin armour plate, but once you reach 1941 when rapid-fire 20mm autocannon became standard fit, it's the beginning of the end
>>64728383I also had a dream about dragons with an erection in progress last night
>>64728436You're in the mindset of having a dragon burninate peasant levies when there were multiple guys just up and say what they would be used for after soldiers start being able to shoot back, namely scouting and attacking soft targets far away from where war is actually taking place.Show isn't the same as it's books but the books canon has it stated that dragon scales are harder than steel for what little it would matter by ww2 times but yeah the dragons should be fine with getting tinked at by powder rifles. GOT dragons are magic in that they have super fire that melts steel beams and comes in an inexhaustible supply. Drogon in the last episodes of that later time of the show which never happened was pretty much on track to singlehandedly firebomb king's landing. He's got a lot more firepower to dish out then any bomber. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RrFDI-PxLwDrogon flies at about 300 MPH based on certain strafing runs he did on the Greyjoys, his wings can smash through the Red Keep's towers and to be honest i suspect that the GOT dragons would still be useful well into ww2. They're niches will be narrow but if they're 'around' somebody is going to find use for them. Maybe it's nvolve flying in the arctic or otherwise gide across continental Asia, land in the forest alps, flip off the cold of winter because the dragon self-heats and do it again a few times befor getting unluckilly downed by AA.It's not as glamourous as being the single handed hammer of a nation but genuinely it might make for an ass pain to have a dragon rider with a little hidey hole in the Algerian wastes getting radio instructions on where to attack at night.
>>64727248ww1 and even then only in a recon role
>>64728521>dragon scales are harder than steeland medieval longbow arrows could cut through 1mm of steel. thickness matters.>scouting and attacking soft targets far away from where war is actually taking placeby 41 cannon-armed fighters had come to even the shitty backwaters of SE Asia.>300 MPHA Hawker Hurricane is slightly faster.So yeah, 1941 appears to be about the limit of its usefulness.
>>64728423Based posting Spellcross on that subject instead of Gate, but that's an assumption that can not only bite you in the ass, but eat you whole in one bite. Next setting it turns out that dragons are considered organic natural disaster zones for a reason and modern missiles do fuck-all to them.>just nuke them thenWorked just fine in Shadowrun didn't it? :^)
>>64727369>Gran Sasso raid but with dragonsyeah that would be pretty hype
>>64728383
>>64728538I put in 1905 above because I think the real issue is the availability of AA artillery - a dragon is a slow moving target by modern standardsby 1940 you have radar sets beginning to be installed all over the place and the dragon's only possible, tiny niche is specops insertion/retrieval, flying nape of the earth and virtually quietly, at night >tfw 160th SOAR would be the last dragon riders
>>64728557keeping in mind that we're just talking shit about a mythical creature whose parameters depend largely on which fantasy media we're basing it off of...I was just addressing the 300 mile/hour claimIRL in level flight the fastest birds go about 100mph which is about the speed of a late-WW1 biplane like the Sopwith Camel. raptors can reach 200mph, roughly equivalent to a 1930s biplane like the interwar Bristol Bulldog (or the TBD Devastator), but only in a dive.Whichever speed you choose your dragons to go at, these are the reference points for when they start being outflown by warplanes.
>>64728576
>>64728538>>64728521WW2 does feel right, like yeah there are the limitations of a dragon being warded by anti-air like vampires to a crucifix but also on the upside to go with that a dragon also has things about them that are still completely unique and valuable. The dragon would have 'some' niches through ww2. The big one that has been mentioned constantly is their being autonomous with no concerns for basing and resupply as they can operate by themselves and do so from the asscracks of the world through weather and basically 'keep' attacking in a never ending string of daily or semi-daily hits that actually have a lot of kick behind them with just how much demolition a dragon can actually dish out when able to sustain their attack against a soft target.
GoT is for retardsalso I didn't watch it
>>64728585>The Last Dragon Riders Of History>HBO miniseries of 10 episodes>each about 90 minutes>based on the bestselling nonfiction book by acclaimed historian Sir Antony Beevor, follow the stories of the last dragon riders of WW2, as they passed out of history and into legend, making way for the modern flying machines of today>once the undisputed scourge of the skies, attracting only the bravest and most elite of every military, dragon cavalry became increasingly obsolete in the 1930s as man-made aeronautical engineering climbed ever greater heights, and the long shadow of the Axis powers fell across the world>this Emmy award-winning series takes you soaring around the world on globe-spanning wings of imagination; from the sun-drenched skies of Spain to the harvest fields of Poland; from the bitter chill of the English Channel to the steaming tropical jungles of Asia and the endless swinging combers of the Pacific>as the chivalry of duels in the air on fire-breathing steeds of antiquity is gradually overtaken by the march of progress, metal flying machines, and the ruthless production-line efficiency of the new industrial world order... join The Last Dragon Riders Of History in their finest hour!>featuring an all-star ensemble cast, including:
>>64728633>shoulder-mounted camera footage of French royalist resistance fighters and SS Drachenfliegerkorps dueling over Berchtesgaden, 1942, colorized
Get a REAL dragon involved and not these pansy bitch giant lizards.
>>64727248>>64727267>>64727272>>64727842>>64728346>>64728534>>64728557A dragon, even a Game of Thrones Dragon, is infinitely superior to a Biplane.
>>64728436It had some woke stuff but I will gladly die on the hill of defending it as an entirely enjoyable and thoughtful attempt at a nice what-if-dragons-were-real story.
>>64728538>>64728521>>64728576>>64728436>>64728585Aren't we essentially describing helicopters?A dragon needs a permissible environment just like a helicopter, can do pop up attacks like a heli, can multi-role like a heli, can land in tight spaces like a heli. Unlike a heli, a dragon only needs to eat, doesn't need mechanical maintenance, and has the autonomy to operate alone or if it's pilots are gone. The only downside is dragons are unlikely to ever have meaningful radar stealth- but dragons can also just run on the ground and entirely evade radar.
>>64727411>Easily still relevant. Suddenly housing and feeding them is less of an issue as they're smart enough to acquire both for themselvesDragons would become valuable allies and strategic resources at that point.You'd be attempting to seduce dragons with national loyalty and be working on preventing a dragon gap with your strategic rivals.That said, I feel like manpads and ATGMs are a pretty hard counter, dragons probably don't fly at very high altitude either.Fast movers do make them kind of irrelevant at the theatre level if you have air superiority or can at least contest it.They're a similar role to an attack helicopter.Reliable artillery with explosive shells would be the start of when dragons have to be much more careful about how they're used. They would stimulate the development of anti-air artillery and air-bursting shells with timed fuzes set by artillerymen as they load and fire.You're have batteries of napoleonic artillery with the artillery officer calling out altitude ranges and the enlisted plugging in fuzes to bracket that range and blast everything in it with shrapnel.At that point, dragons don't rule the battlefield but they're still too potent to ignore so they become something you have to plan campaigns around to ensure you have counters on hand.
>>64728000>The qualifications that would be asked of a prospective dragon rider must be out of this world. Straight up astronaut selection from when being an astronaut was actually an event.Kind of the basis of Dragon Riders of Pern.But with a lot more time spent on mating habits because it's a series that sells fantasy to horse girls.
A dragon can be a laser guided missile platform.
>>64727248Fantasy author Naomi Novik wrote ten pulp fantasy novels to answer that question.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temeraire_(series)The Napoleonic warsBtw if anyone ever decides to read this author, go for Uprooted, it's a pretty nice novel.
>>64727248phased out along with horses
>>64727267I think you're under estimating dragons by a mile. While gunpowder might deal a death blow to dragons straight combat ability it's still an independent high altitude bomber with multi ton capacity and speed 10+ times greater than anything else in the world. You could drop hundreds of thousands of lazy dogs to a battlefield at near mach one per cycle(and propably a cows worth of calories). You could set every single village in a nation on fire while being unopposed due to outspeeding messages.A 15 ton dragon is a nation or even continent annihilator pre airplanes IF they're piloted by a very mischevious and sneaky person.Heck, even a single griffin(or a midget riding Quetzalcoatlus) would totally turn the tide of war pre 1900s. Unparallelled recon and capacity to drop 100s of firebombs to mostly wooden cities is huge.
>>64729205Heh, for a moment I thought you were talking about a porn comic I read years ago where the elite dragon riders were girls because they bonded with the young dragons via sex.
>>64727248>implying intelligent dragons don't currently run the world
>>64730638Probably some Bad Dragons.
>>64730192Good stuff, the wife and I listened to the first as an audio book. Great for making supper and folding laundry. I really like the depictions of the dragon air crews instead of singular dragon knights.>>64730444>444Same thing, except Pern attempts to provide a thin veneer of schlickfic sensibility over it.
>>64730638Feels like beast dragons have pretty much wholly lost the popular perception war against the talky ones. Genuinely what was the last big thing with a dragon in it that wasn’t having them able to speak?
>>64730947House of the Dragon
>dragon>posts wyvern
>>64730444Does this comic have a name?
>>64730256>I think you're under estimating dragons by a mile. While gunpowder might deal a death blow to dragons straight combat ability it's still an independent high altitude bomber with multi ton capacity and speed 10+ times greater than anything else in the world. You could drop hundreds of thousands of lazy dogs to a battlefield at near mach one per cycle(and propably a cows worth of calories). You could set every single village in a nation on fire while being unopposed due to outspeeding messages.This, 100%. Like shit, even the most cutting edge modern aircraft are vulnerable to fucking anything if you actually catch them on the ground, duh. You can put an F22 or B2 out of action with an AR15 if you were allowed to walk up to it and mag dump for a bit. They aren't equipped with magic force fields. The point of flying units is the FLYING bit, duh. While specifics could vary, fundamentally a large dragon with human rider(s) would be like a WW1 bomber or blimp maybe, except centuries earlier. Even in WW2 it was a challenge to hit air units with guns until developments like VT fuse mass production, and that was an extremely difficult and impressive achievement by an industrial super power. With no pressurization sure a dragon rider couldn't go that high but it'd be plenty high enough to be effectively unhittable by any premodern weapons. The only counter would be catching it on the ground and/or catching its logistics. But dragons would make that a lot harder then early aircraft since they're VTOL or at least STOVL and can refuel via biomass. Though:>>A 15 ton dragon is a nation or even continent annihilator pre airplaneThey would need a nation behind them to be clear, firebombs don't grow on trees and if the dragon has to get within breath weapon range now it really is at risk. But yeah any country with them would be at stupid advantage over those without. "Aircraft carriers" would probably develop as a concept early too.
>>64731348>if the dragon has to get within breath weapon range now it really is at riskIn some kind of melee fight, absolutely. But setting a village, or a field of crops, alight while everybody is asleep? That's a lot less risky. IMHO dragons are better used as strategic assets, not melee juggernauts.
>>64731368That's what I'm saying, unless we're talking some super dragon that can fire energy beams from miles away or some shit it makes more sense to use it to drop bombs from a mile up rather then come down into stereotypical firebreathing range.If we're treating this seriously though we'd probably have to consider the arms race that'd happen in response. Humans would have to think about air power long, long before they did in our timeline, and while their responses would still be limited by their tech it'd in turn be a driver for tech. People would start trying to figure out better cannons and shells hardcore backed by whatever funding a given kingdom could scrounge up. And then dragon militaries would in turn work on better bombs etc etc.So we'd probably see things diverge pretty fast. Maybe the very first initial dragon usage would be fully using their own breath or powers or flat out their claws, and just their scales. And then better ground weapons/tactics. Then we'd start to see armor, maybe some sort of steel protection on their claws. Then better ballistas or whatever that makes melee too risky. Then move to low altitude hit & run tactics, maybe dumping metal spikes or rocks or whatever and oil that gets ignited. Then first cannon, then move to higher altitudes, if breeding is possible maybe more and more dragon v dragon combat in all this and specialization for anti-air vs anti-ground roles. I suspect history would play out with some interesting parallels to IRL because incentives and game theory still push humans the same way in war.
>>64731340Most likely, but I can't recall it.
Military dragons would be an insanely expensive proposition for a pre-industrial society. Feeding and training multiple >500 lb flying carnivores would make war elephants look reasonable in comparison. They would be invaluable as scouts, infiltrators, and couriers to any nation that could sustain them. >>64727272spbp>>64728868Biplanes become more cost-effective than dragons essentially as soon as one can produce them. Dragons would only be used in the 20th century by militaries that couldn't procure airplanes for whatever reason.
>>64728868>, is infinitely superior to a BiplaneSure its better than "a" biplane.But a dragon is not gonna fight just one biplane.Like the Targaryens had like what, maybe a dozen dragons at the height of their power. The British Royal Flying Corps alone had over 3,000 aircraft by the end of WW1
>>64728804BASED
>>64728748They had to pull the magic antiradar/missile field out of their ass for this one though
>>64730941I don't think they bind with the dragons through sex IIRC. Although the rider and dragon can feel each other being sexed which leads to riders fucking while their dragons get it on.
>>64729042>a dragon only needs to eatit needs to eat a lot. An animal as big as the OP image probably takes like a cow a day or something. It also needs to eat every single day that you're not using it. Which produces a cow's mass in shit. And it has to be flown and trained every day or it gets bored and disobedient, and probably needs to breath fire pretty often too. You also need an expensive vet (it's not exactly a friendly puppy) to check up on it every so often, make sure it's eating right, deal with clogs, tumors, ingrown scales, infections etc., and supply it with drugs if it's not feeling well. You might be able to get some use out of horns, eggs, and scales, but that's not really going to offset the cost. It probably can't fly at the same altitude as airplanes either. Neither can a rider, without carrying pressurized air. But it is true that the supply chain is less complex and shorter. And it can walk. And it doesn't need any fancy precision machined equipment to drop bombs on things.
>>64730203But starts to see action again in the 21st century out of desperation. Though the FPV drone operators try to take out just the rider and have the dragon roam free again.
>>64731986You're not seeing the full possibility.A dragon based drone operator. They're large enough to host numerous drones, and can loiter.
What makes me frustrated is people only assume you are going to be killing the dragon, and then dragons stop being used. It's "tanks/helicopters are obsolete" applied to fantasy. How dragons are used is going to change over time, from the bronze age to medieval to early modern to modern. But nobody is going to just stop using a giant fire breathing aerial monster.
>дpaкoн obr. 2025>half the size of a standard dragon due to malnutrition >considered geriatric in age>covered in hedgehog "armor" and reactive bricks (which only contain cardboard)>somebody has strapped a naval turret gun to this poor creature >the remaining dozen Tsar era dragons, all that remains to the Kremlin, are flown into an airport without any form of backup and decisively annihilated by some ukie using a bofors pilfered from a museum Grim
>>64732020You will note that there are two catagories of answers:1. dragons stop being a major factor because gunpowder kills them2. dragons stop being a major factor because biplanes or helicopters do their job betterThe first one is, as you note, mostly incorrect. The second is far more likely to be correct, because it puts dragons in the same position as cavalry or battleships - they might still be capable of being useful, but other things can do their job better for cheaper and thus there is no reason to use them over other options outside of very niche roles. Cavalry and battleships did in fact die out when these circumstances came about, and so would dragons once something more capable comes along.
>>64732543Bold of you to claim cavalry has died out when I have seen Russians charge on horseback just last week.
>>64732579And horses are extremely viable in mountainous terrain.
>>64731348>firebomb their cities my king.jpgThat's Duke "Dragon Bomber" Harris to you serfs.
>>64727272Very nice thinking>Air units are for recon>If no radio & likes, then also for comms>Maybe for deep strikes if they can tank a bit
>>64727272>>647337331905 is a bit too aggressive, wright flyer was only 1903, it'd be a few more years until aircraft actually got decent. If the dragons are smart that may extend things an extra few years, and the vertical takeoff+silence of flight/gliding aspects could keep them relevant for special operations possibly into ww2 or later. Dragons flying low at night could be very helpful for spooky shit long after they were rendered irrelevant in any sort of direct combat role.But still yeah this seems reasonable enough given OP's stipulations about size/power. Only real wildcard to me would be what a country like the us could accomplish via selective breeding programs and industrialized agriculture. If dragons could be mass produced and specialized relatively cheaply perhaps that keeps them relevant throughout ww1 even if they start suffering tremendous losses just like infantry did. I mean, realistically speaking looking at actual history, humanity has often clung onto obsolete stuff long after it should have been militarily retired. Part of why WW1 was such a fucking slaughter house was the stubborn insistence on utterly obsolete tactics. If dragons were a big part of war prior to that, I don't see why they wouldn't be subject to the same bullshit.
>>64731913>the rider and dragon can feel each other being sexed which leads to riders fucking while their dragons get it onLike I said, thin veneer. It's great for introducing horse girls to fantasy.>>64731934Depending on the exact type of fantasy dragon, dragons can offer a lot more. Intelligent, magical creatures that are significantly more cunning than humans but will help plan and execute war. With something closer to D&D dragons, a situation could arise where dragons are paired with generals and only function in a command role. >>64732005>glide behind enemy lines at night>hunker down in a forest>launch dawn drones>monitor situation>launch sunset drones>dragon attacks or leaves after second swarmYeah, that could work. I might even have to try that in my /tg/ campaign>>64732543>so would dragons once something more capable comes alongThe answer might be better bred dragons. Again, depends on type. Pern-type teleporting dragons would be infinitely useful, forever, for example.
>>64730192>tenNine of them are dogshit>>64730941Do not read any further if you value your sanity
>>64734174For once (and unlike the normal shit with this threads so want to give OP a little credit) OP actually did specify what flavor of fantasy he was thinking of, namely the GoT dragons which are neither super weak nor demigod outerplane tier. So discussion has mostly been within those bounds. The big open question is what industrialization era IRL nation-states could further do if given the chance to experiment with that as opposed to the primitives in the GoT world.>>64734567>Nine of them are dogshitnta but I only think a couple were truly awful even if none were brilliant. The concept was cool enough to still be a pretty enjoyable ride until the memory loss arc shit, and my recollection is the finale wasn't awful all things considered.
>>64727248How does rider fly at such heights without freezing, or running out of air when it becomes a pain to breath?
>>64731761>But a dragon is not gonna fight just one biplaneConsidering it's the equivalent of a heavy bomber which also couldn't easily fight their weight or cost in Biplanes all at once.If we're using the bigger end of GOT dragons for comparison they're probably not going to be particularly vulnerable to rifle caliber fire either. Their hides are nothing like real world animals. Once they matured the only thing that could hurt them was that ludicrous super ballista that could punch straight through warships on the fucking horizon.
>>64735183>freezingIdk about air but aren't GOT dragons hotter than a real animal?
>>64735295Or you know, you kill the guy riding it so its basically a mission kill and becomes unguided, a danger to all sides.
>>64735306Incredible how that didn't stop bombers and planes from being useful.>Danger to all sides Only in the broad theoretical sense. Dragons are still intelligent and able to recognize their master's allies. 9/10 times a riderless dragon is either going to fuck off or suicide run the enemy. The later seasons of GOT were absurd with how much fire they could put out in a single pass, fire that would melt or blow apart stone like it was paper, so that's probably going to be more effective than just pissing in the wind even if it is a waste of a dragon.
>>64735437>Incredible how that didn't stop bombers and planes from being useful.Killing the pilot didnt make a plane useless? What are you smoking.
>>64735437>Dragons are still intelligent and able to recognize their master's allies. Thats your assumption. Even in the fiction posted ITT they vary from little more than beasts to talking magic animals as smart as a man. Magic talking version has no need of a pilot. Beast version might do the old funny Russian anti tank dog thing and turn on its handlers.
>>64735437>Incredible how that didn't stop bombers and planes from being useful.Well we could always build more. Reminder that in WW2, the USA alone shitted an average of over 200 airplanes per day. Scaling up dragon production might be a bit harder and losing one a larger blow to one's strategic options.
>>64735463Killing everyone in an airplane is absolutely a kill you retard. At least the dragon's still alive.
>>64735295A dragon's armor would still be useless against gunpowder weapons, even medieval firearms absolutely BTFO comparable crossbows and catapults in terms of raw power.I think there would be a golden age of dragon warfare form the late 1600's to early 1900's where countries are wealthy enough to sustain a significant number of dragon riders (dozens instead of maybe a handful) and quickfire artillery and airplanes don't exist to make dragon riders critically vulnerable & obsolete, respectively.
>>64735669>Scaling up dragon production might be a bit harderWhy? Valyria had no issue figuring out dragon production and they were a tiny primitive set of farmers at the start, nothing compared to an IRL industrialized nation-state. I don't see any reason why any of the WW1 era great powers should have any trouble with dragon mass production and experimentation.Granted, blood magic and shit went right along with that for the Valyrians and I guess magicshit is somehow tied into the dragons so maybe everything gets super weird and gay in a world where a bunch of world powers find dragon eggs a few centuries ago. But even with no magic we'd be doing advanced breeding and experiments anyway and by end of WW2 and cold war I'm sure there'd be tons of programs on dragon genetics, seeing how they react to nuclear material and whatever else we could think of.
>>64735669Shat is the correct term
