>PDWWhose retarded idea was this? Why not just give everyone M4's?And if that's not small enough, cut the barrel down to 10''
Because
Because the AR is now the best rifle ever made, people forget what unreliable pieces of shit AR carbines were until very recently, relatively speaking. The whole reason the SCAR trial was started is because CQBRs couldn't be trusted, similarly the 416 was borne of frustration at how delicate M4s were with a suppressor; and even regular big army M4s didn't really come into their own until the PIP and after several generations of mag follower. So that's why, short barrelled ARs sucked.
>>64729037That's pretty much the best minmaxed option for close protection that's not a handgun. If you want something you can shoulder that's the most concealable package there is. Caliber sucks but it's high capacity.>>64729088AR caliber is shit out of short barrels, our close protection details would be better off concealing short barrel AKs which has a caliber that performs excellently out of short barrels. And you can bullpup it.>muh .300blkWorse performing round than 7.62x39. Look at them both, the bullet is too big for the small amount of powder behind it on .300blk. It's made to be suppressed because it's actually a 9x39 copy, not a 7.62x39 copy. Again look at the rounds side by side. 7.62x39 has a smaller bullet with more powder, it's a better all purpose round. Still an intermediate, but if you're complaining about 7.62x39 arc wait until you see .300blk arc. Way worse.The ultimate PDW round is 7.62x39, and there is objectively no argument to this. Handgun rounds are for handguns, when you want a small rifle get the best performing round for a small rifle.
>>64729088They should've used 11.5 PSA ARs desu
>>64729088Honestly this. I remember there was bitching about the M4 in the 90's and early 2000's. Also a P90 is easily over a pound lighter and a fair bit smaller than an M4 from the era when it was popular.
>>64729088Surely HK and FN could have used a fraction of those P90/MP7 R&D bucks to develop a short carbine that doesn't fucking suck
>>64729115>PDW>Xbox hueg garbage round that no other weapon in the arsenal uses with no stateside manufacturer supportUh oh it's retarded
>>64729115>if you're complaining about 7.62x39 arc wait until you see .300blk arc.300 loadings of the same velocity as 7.62x39 use a bullet just one gram lighter (7g vs 8g), I think it's fair to call them equivalent.
>>64729115>if you're complaining about 7.62x39 arc wait until you see .300blk arc. Way worse.Bro's retarded
>>64729120How old are you?
oh look, another teenager's thread complaining that adults aren't as smart as him and should do what he thinks is best
>>64729088>what unreliable pieces of shit AR carbines were until very recentlysource? this reeks of headcanon.
>>64729169Did you read the legend for that graph or are you purposely lying?
>>64729037> cut the barrel down to 10''You mean 4.5"
>>64729037>just make everyone gay and retardedwhat an odd thing to say
>>64729037Some genius basically played the 556 case length like a trumpet until they thought they found what could be coined the perfect PDW cartridge, and they got lost along the way. 357 SIG and what whatnot bottlenecked rounds went flying over their heads. Plus the benefit if magazine interchangeability between the main gun and the handgun. If you use special ammo for 357 SIG in a carbine you'll get around 3000 FPS, and over 2000 FPS out of a pistol.
>>64729126plus it can ACTUALLY be assigned to any department and be usefulp90s should be standard issue for cops along side their handguns(please anything but the gock- mean glock)ive seen so many body cam videos where cops struggle with their AR.not using it but doing anything other than being scoped in and pulling the trigger is a messjust in every respect.
>>64729139The SCAR-SC in 300 Blackout and HK437 exist now. IMO the P90 and MP7 still have a niche in being able to be fired one-handed fairly comfortably for use with shields and shit.
>>64729037Less recoil, larger mag, somewhat lighter, about a foot shorter, and cheaper to manufacture. M4s are cheap because they're using the M16 infrastructure but P90s are mechanically similar to MP5s.
>compact stock in the collapsed positionWe have to go shorter.
>>64729115The dumbest fucking post I’ve seen on here in some time
>>64729424meant to reply to >>64729277
>>64729277>leftjesuschristhowhorrifying
>>64729277what if P90 but 5.56
>>64729424Some dumb nigger did this with 50cal and surprisingly it was kino
>>64729440Would blow up the gun. Or double it's weight. Or something equally bad. See, the P90 is a direct blowback gun. Like a Makarov or MP5 but with a funky trigger setup. This means the chamber can open up while still at pressure and if it opens up too fast the brass with pop like a balloon while still in the gun. Unless you want to be picking brass out of your gun and limbs you need to slow the bolt down.However, the only way to slow down a direct blowback is to make the bolt heavier. Do anything else and it's no longer a direct blowback. (Side note, this is why we've got all these different actions like Short Recoil and Long-stroke Piston). This can lead to an extremely heavy bolt, possibly heavier than the rest of the gun. +
>>64729401>P90s are mechanically similar to MP5s>straight blowback vs roller delayed
>>64729616Hello there ChatGPT, can't view the images? a shame..
>>64729440What about PDR except 300 BLK Keltec abomination?
>>64729120This. The 11.5" PSA program was initiated after SCARs durability issues came to light and the 416s sub par accuracy became a problem.
>>64729619If anything, that makes my argument stronger. >>64729623And what kind of Gemini generated image is that?
>>64729277>tfw you realize you could fit a 14.5" barrel and a real rifle cartridge into a P90 sized package if you weren't deadset on making a glorified hipoint
>>64729440I still want one of these.
>>64729616>MP5
>>64729631>>64729440The AKB-23 unironically seems to be the shortest bullpup when it has a 10-10.5 inch barrel upper
>>64729037you can hide a p90 under a jacket and have 50rd of AP ammo if neededyou just cant do it with standard ar15 unless u go the mcx route with rattler/rsar
>>64730955we have the L22 at home
>>64729115>That's pretty much the best minmaxed option for close protection that's not a handgunNo.>AR caliber is shit out of short barrels5.56x45mm NATO out of a 8.5" barrel takes hot steaming shits all over 5.7x28mm from even a 16" barrel.>Worse performing round than 7.62x39No.>The ultimate PDW round is 7.62x39Comically deluded, it's stupidly bulky even for its original role and performance and entirely a legacy cartridge. Supersonic loads of .300BLK can match M43 performance if you absolutely want those ballistics.>>64729230He is greatly exaggerating, but short barreled AR15s tended to often have mediocre reliability until the late 2000s. Seals and Deltas would move from the initial 10.5" barreled CAR-15 variants to slightly longer 12.5" barreled ones, not just because of ballistics and range, but because they found it improved dwell time and reliability.
>>64729440We could have had a non-shit P90...
>>64730955Man that thing is so silly looking but I really want one
>>64731341>AP ammoThat will go through pistol rated armor. Any rifle caliber can defeat that level of armor. 5.7 is just too light of a round and doesn't do well all around. Even when it makes it through armor it barely causes damage. It deflects through light barriers and can't pass the minimum 12" in ballistics gel to be considered a decent duty round.
>>64731531You can. It's called the RBD.
>>64731359Show me a more compact gun that holds 50 rounds standard. I'll wait.>7.62x39 is bulky but .300blk is notWtf argument even is this? The rifles are bulky? Ok get a VZ. At least you can fold the stock on anything that's not a fucking AR. Worst PDW option ever, and yes the round is shit out of a 10" barrel. That's half the barrel length it needs to achieve fragmentation.
>>64729647>SCARs durability issues came to light?
>>64731372half of the P90's problems with be solved if it was chambered in 10mm Auto instead of boutique .22 Magnum. put a Kriss Vector recoil system in the back and it would be a competitive system to compete with short barreled ARs.
>>64731701Armor piercing bullets was design criteria.
>>64731726higher quality 10mm rounds tear through armor better than 5.7 and still have kinetic energy to do some actual damage afterwards. FN just wanted a monopoly on a proprietary ammo and proprietary magazines. the P90 magazine is neat but 5.7 still has a case shoulder diameter of 7.95mm, load the same mechanism with 10mm and you will still get at least 40 rounds in the same sized magazine.
>>64731701>10mm P90That would be neat, FN should really toy with the P90 design in different calibers. It would only hold like 25 rounds in 10mm though, it's about twice as wide.
>>64729954I would be willing to take the airsoft version at this point but those are basically unobtainaium now too
>>64731745>anon says AP was a design requirement>you present ammo made decades laterNot very fair. Plus the competition in the program all made proprietary ammo and mags as well.But I will concede 5.7 is severely lacking in ammo development like other ammo have benefited from.
>>64731782>It would only hold like 25 rounds in 10mm though, it's about twice as wide.5.7mm cases are 7.95mm at their widest, 10mm are 10.8mm. so capacity with drop by around 20% or 40 rounds.
>>6473184710mm Auto was first developed in 1983, before the P90. sure the exotic stuff came later but it already had potential at the time.
>>64731904Unless you make the mag taller too, you can't pack them as densely so there'll be additional losses besides the diameter.
>>64731904Neat. Too bad FN is the slowest factory at producing anything and FN USA is not even really affiliated with them other than being an importer and authorized to make cheap plastic handguns with their logo on it.
>>64731802Give me musk money and I'll bring to market one using the kriss recoil system.
>>64731627The Scar is a well known piece of shit which is why it's being replaced by 11.5" PSAs
>>64729037you're right PDW is a stupid nameit's not like it'll be good for stopping bulletsit's a POW. personal offensive weapon. it shoots bullets. thank you for bringing this to my attention.
>>64729037The solicitation came out in 1986, before the M4 and the mass adoption of carbines. It's like how they had all that retarded project spew shit and then the ACOG came out and they realized the acog fixed the hit rate issues
>>64731531yeah except one slip and that ass heavy fucker is going to be pointing straight up at your faCE
>>64731701liberty defense?
>>64732755that's the beauty of it
>>64729424I am still in disbelief that the madman who made that gun managed to get the gas system to work. Dude I can see the fucking bullet, how the hell does that thing cycle?
>>64731782> 25 rounds in 10mm though37 rounds for the same mag length. 10.8mm case head diameter vs 8mm
>>64729616
>>64731548
>>64732758LOL shit okay
>>64731548The cartridges, you fuckhead. Have you seen the case head on 7.62x39mm? It's way wider than it needs to be, and the case could be a bit shorter too.An AR15 mag with 30rds of .300BLK is indeed sleeker and more compact than an AKM mag with 30rds of 7.62x39mm
>>64733060
>>64729267You're a moron.
>>64733335Expanding on this further, supersonic loads of .300BLK are almost identical in terminal ballistics to German 7.92x33mm cartridge, but because .300BLK isn't a fucking chopped down 7.92x57mm in form factor, you can get the exact same ballistics and performance but in a much shorter and lighter magazine.To illustrate this, we have here a Sturmgewehr 44 next to a much later (and much better) H&K HK33 or HK93 rifle. The H&K rifle is in 5.56x45mm but that's the exact same size as .300BLK, and the H&K rifle, with is similar length magazine, holds 40rds of either .223 or .300.You could hypothetically make similar savings in weigh and size by replacing 7.62x39mm with a variant which is simply a necked up 5.45x39mm or necked down 9x39mm cartridge, giving you the same performance with a .30 caliber projectile but with a slimmer cartridge and thus a lighter, shorter, and less curved magazine.This wouldn't really be necessary to do, because 5.56mm and 5.45mm already exist and are the perfect type of infantry rifle cartridge, and there's little reason to reinvent 7.62x39mm again when .300BLK, 9x39mm, and now .350LGN exist.
>>64733719hk roller guns are so sexy
Have you ever trier to use an m4 in the driver's seat of a car before? Because I have and it's a pain in the fucking ass. Too much stuff to get caught on. The P90 is basically just a streamlined rectangle.
>>64729277> micropenis AR
5.56x30 would go hard in an MP7 form factor (the JVPC/MSMC exists but it's Indian)
>>64734205The Colt 5.56x30 round is also like 500 fps faster than the Indian equivalent out of relatively similar barrel lengths
>>64733719That magazine looks oddly short for 40 rounds of 5.56. How come PMAG 40s are so insanely long?>>64734239>the Indian equivalentDoes anyone even know anything about 5.56 MINSAS? I remember seeing one specimen in a video once and it seemed to be almost identical to 5.56 MARS. So close, that the Indians actually plagiarized Nathaniel Fitch’s picture of the MARS in one of their military documents, passing it off as the MINSAS.>>64734205Make the grip out of steel and EDM the magwell, and you can feed a COAL of ~1.85” within a comfortable grip. That’s 221 fireball. And if you really wanted you can widen the case head, since there’s still room for a wider case without affecting grip comfort. 7.62x39 can be duplicated (with 110gr bullets) double stacked and fed through the grip. 5.7x28 and 4.6x30mm are nowhere near the limit of what is possible with mag-in-grip guns,But yes, 5.56 MARS would go hard as fuck in an mp7. Way better than the diminutive 5.7
>why can't everything be an ar15god you guys are boring
>>64735076Similar mag length. But the gap between trigger guard and mag makes it look more proportionate than a 40rd AR's bar graph of 200% mag right next to 100% grip.
