Why wouldn't something like pic related work fine as a "do everything" gun for a person living in the densely forested hills of Appalachia, where the power and ballistic advantage of a rifle simply isn't necessary?>plinking will be good fun with the naturally subsonic .45>definitely suitable for home defense>easy enough to fit in a backpack, or take the can off and carry it on your person>get some .45 Super for killing deer or hogs, or mess around with round ball loadings for taking small game or for pest controlYes, it's true that rifles can be had for dirt cheap these days. And it's also true that there is no real reason to limit yourself to just one gun, especially a handgun. But in an autistic min-max fantasy where you literally can only own one gun and it has to be able to be carried 24/7/365, does a suppressed .45 automatic make sense? The only real downside I see here is that this is not the best option for summertime concealed carry in hot climates.
Good post Op. I personally believe (cost being a factor) .45 acp is the superior suppressed caliber for long guns and handguns.
>>64731902Maybe in a PCC.
>>64731902Why do you need a suppressor? Isn't the scout rifle concept effectively to give the user the ultimate hunting rifle? Something light, accurate, and easy to point with a generous FOV? Where does a suppressor fit into that? Frankly I'd say something like a red or blackhawk with a scope would better conform to Cooper's concept in a handgun but justify your 45 purchase however you see fit
>>64732131You don't "need" it but a suppressor is simply the number one best thing you can do to increase shootability and enjoyment of a gun. Having the option for hunting without hearing protection, or not concussing yourself into unconsciousness during an indoor shoot are huge benefits.
>>64731902Post a pistol you own and your groups at 25 yards. That’ll answer everything.
>>64731902>scout rifle>scout pistolWhat you are thinking of is a field pistol. Something like the FK BRNO is a purpose built field pistol, but an optic equipped semi-auto or a scoped revolver also works well. You really want something flat shooting like 357 mag, 44 mag, 10mm, or 357 sig (or 7.5FK) so you can shoot at distance if needed more easily, but 45acp could work too.
>>64731902147gr 9mm is way quieter than .45.147gr 9mm is way cheaper than .45.147gr 9mm is way more capacity than .45.Why the fuck would you ever?
>>64731902You'd be better off with a SIG rattler because it has better ballistics, you can get two hands on it, it has a higher capacity, and folded it's not much larger.
>>64731902Behold, the modern PDW
I have thought about this. I like the idea though I have no personal need for one.>revolver chambered in fuckhuge cartridge that would preclude an autoloader (350L, 400L)>~8” barrel>LPVO or MPVO>bipodThere you go. A gun that could conceivable be passively worn on the hip that should be able to kill anything (save for African gigafauna) at close-ish range. But it cannot be fired quickly, comfortably, and accurately from the shoulder at >100yds the way a scout rifle can.But if the gun must be an autoloader, I think that’s just a mk23 in 45 super or 460 Rowland (do these exist?). Or maybe one of the BRNO guns in 7.5FK though I’m not sure about that(Pic from google). I think if somebody designed a scout revolver from from the ground up, the bipod could be elegantly incorporated into the barrel shroud. Cause a bipod on a revolver right now is a ridiculous proposition.
>>64732822My mistake, here's the real modern PDW. Brand new concept, totally new
>>64732824These things are cool as shit on paper but my god IRL they suck dick. totally cramped, flimsy stock, no provisions for a cheek weld. Whoever solves the pistol-chassis PDW ergonomics problem will make millions. Gimme a 0-150yd gun that I can holster and doesn’t suck to shoot.
>>64732714Beeg boolet
>>64732836The Klobb even has a holster
>>64732849Meant to tag >>64732833
>>64732849Every time I see one I have to wonder how many total retards have shot their hand trying to use the stock as a foregrip. I know the answer is at least one.
>>64731902Congrats anon, you brought back the Offensive Handgun Weapon Systems idea.
>>64731902>meanwhile, the humble MK23
>>64731902I have just the thing
>>64732871Lol, just when I saw some guy on yt making exactly this his EDC. It's fucking cool and I am going to do exactly the same.
The scout rifle was and remains a retarded concept
>>64732010elaborate without saying "Naturally subsonic!"
>>64732820Sig shit. Not even once.
>>64733204You are the retard now.
>>64732823A .350 Legend x-frame is 71.5oz. Add a scope and scope rings and that’s another pound. You’re looking at a 5.5lb revolver. Yes it’s more compact in dimensions than a rifle but hardly easy to carry. That bipod you mentioned adds another 3+oz. You can get a rifle for the damn near the same weight. Less even if you go an ultralight AR route. It’s bulkier, but a far more effective tool.
>>64732010>more expensive than subsonic 9>louder than subsonic 9Explain how it suppresses better. For the record, I have an Obsidian 45. Even when I don’t have the 9mm end cap it’s still quieter with 147s than with .45 acp. I’d wager you don’t even own a suppressor but feel free to prove me wrong.
>>647327149mm can not be loaded hot enough to take a deer reliably. A 45 Super definitely is capable.
>>64733440That’s a complete lie. .45 super is definitely superior for that, but 9mm JHP in an area “too densely wooded for rifles” like OP mentions is perfectly fine for the size of deer that live there. Why can it kill a 150-200lb man but not a different 150-200lb thin skinned mammal. Also .45 super is typically going to be supersonic.
>>64733457The biggest difference is that with a deer, you basically get one good shot before they bolt. The man gets mag dumped because he's coming directly at you. If you only get one round then hotter and bigger is better.That being said I'd still pick a 9mm if I had to live in OPs scenario. Shoot the durr in the head or just be prepared to track it.
>>64733515> you basically get one good shot before they bolt. Agreed, but the power difference between a .45 super and a 9mm isn’t enough to make up for a bad shot. Deer bolt on people when they hit it with a .300 win mag. People also drop elk with 5.56 77gr TMKs when they get a well placed shot. With equal shot placement there isn’t enough power difference between those two pistol rounds to matter. > Shoot the durr in the head or just be prepared to track it.Exactly
>>64734011Personally, I do think there could be enough of a difference between 9 and 45 super if you use hollow points, but if you are using flat nose solids, yeah either is fine so long as you put a passthrough hole through their heart and lungs or CNS.
>>64734088Enough to make a noticeable difference, not to make up for a bad shot.*
>>64731902because pistols are pretty useless in warfare
>>64734125>implying in any war in current year you won't be killed instantly by a drone piloted by AI running on a server in some rich dude's bunker after he takes a private jet out of the country at the first sign of troublesmall arms are clearly over. and all the tacticool LARPers with their nods and suppressed SBRs are going to be the first to get got.
>>64731902You mean a Roland special? But in .45 for no real reason?>where the power and ballistic advantage of a rifle simply isn't necessary?This is never an accurate statement. Either you can carry a rifle in the situation, and therefore should, or you can't so you settle for a handgun.
>>64734088>>64734094Yes I agree with you. There is a noticeable difference but only if you have good shot placement already.
Single action revolvers are the ultimate do everything pistol. People will whinge and insult you for carrying one, but they are faggots and should be ignored.
>>64733430>I'd wagerNo you wont.>prove me wrong.Why bother.I have an omega 45k that I use on a 9mm stribog and pdp. The endcap cannot be changed. The reason why I prefer .45 in Ops theoretical is because its a substantially larger bullet. Subsonic ammunition's doesn't typically expand as reliably as supersonic. I would rather have .45 in that situation. I wasn't comparing cost benefit to 9mm because I wouldn't consider 9mm in the first place.
>>64733243Its a cheap readily available subsonic caliber that has a large meplat. >dont point out the major advantage when you explain your reasoninglol
>>64733423This Begs a question. A revolver and an AR are both locked breech guns and in the case of 350L, can chamber the same cartridge. How much lighter can a revolver be made? It’s physically a much smaller gun, and really only the barrel, cylinder, and the “breech block” behind it need to be steel. There has to be a way of making something like a <3lb gun that can hold and fire 6 rounds of 350L. Can’t be impossible.> You can get a rifle for the damn near the same weightLighter. I have a 14.5” 5.56 that comes in at ~4.2lbs (naked). No gay skeletonization, just a pencil barrel, vseven receivers, and CF Handguard + stock.
>>64734421>meplatWhy don’t we just say “tip”. We are ‘Murican, god dammit, why must we speak French? Is it meplat, or mee-plat, or Muh-plaah?
>>64734446>why must we speak French?Its the correct word.
>>64734320Hell yeah brother!
>>64734398>theoretical Oh so made up in your mind> Subsonic ammunition's doesn't typically expand as reliably as supersonicAnon how are you posting on the internet way back in 1990?
>>64734421147gr 9mm FMJ is cheaper and just as available as 230gr .45 FMJ. Yes a .45 is slightly larger but FMJ vs FMJ hardly matters in wound channel. Meplat matters if you’re using something like hard cast flat nose. Which cost more or you’re loading yourself. Then you can pay for JHPs also (although more expensive than hard cast) or roll your own JHPs to save money.
>>64734436> How much lighter can a revolver be made?It’s a question of want to vs can. You can make ultralight guns but then they kick more. 340PDs are awesome, but a full power .357 magnum in 11oz gun isn’t fun or controllable. The issue with a revolver and weight is the cylinder. You need each wall to contain the pressure where a typical barrel/bolt only needs to encase one round. Sure you could have a 3 shot cylinder and save a ton of weight (proportionally) but then you only have 3 shots. I like revolvers, I have a few, they are very fun. But the design itself is dated and can only be stretched so far. > Lighter. I have a 14.5” 5.56 that comes in at ~4.2lbs (naked). Yeah I might have phrased it poorly initially but I meant “normal” rifle. The second part of my post was for the 4-4.5lb ARs using standard parts. I haven’t spec’d one out but I think you do a 10-12” .350 Legend AR pistol for under 5lbs not counting an optic. That completely shits in a revolver in terms of performance and only weighs 6oz more.
>>64734498I know, and it’s very gay. You know English has a word for “tip”. It’s “tip”. They do this in chess too. You can’t just say “inbetween move”, you have to say zwishenzug. You can’t say “I’m giving my king space”, you say “I’m giving my king luft” (German for “air”). We have a perfectly good language with lots of good words. let’s use them.
>>64734656>Oh so made up in your mind>Why wouldn't something like pic related work fine as a "do everything" gun for a person living in the densely forested hills of Appalachia, where the power and ballistic advantage of a rifle simply isn't necessary?>way back in 1990Im not Op you fucking tard and gel tests aren't real. >>64734671> a .45 is slightly larger >220 grain .45 is slightly larger than .36 147 grain>i am smart
>>64735126>gayUsing the correct terminology is how you properly explain things. Of course with the level of ESL in this thread it was a waste of time.
I have a 6" Python as a similar kind of gun. Good plinker, but in a pinch I could hunt deer ethically with it on SA with a good .357 load.
>>64735359>Erm actually it's a piece of dunnage not foam>It's not a spatula it's a turner>That's not a cup, it's a mugYou know what the fuck I'm talking about, the incessant need for pointless jargon that does nothing but virtue signal how much irrelevant gun information you know is pretty fucking gay. Tell me, what extra information is conveyed when I say "this cartridge has a flat melpat" vs "this bullet has a flat tip"
>>64735420I prefer nose. Tip sounds gay, meplat sounds French (Also gay).
>>64735458NTA. Technically nose refers to the entire ogive. Like, nose cone.
>>64734446I've got bad news about a shitload of the English vocabulary, anon.And Louisiana
>>64735538Yeah my bitching probably should be disregarded. I’ll bitch into the void. Every language has cognates with every other language, borrowed words, etc.>LouisianaI don’t follow.
>>64735553originally french. hence being named after a french king.
>>64735320Nigger you are too dumb to even follow what I’m saying. You said JHPs don’t reliably expand. That was true 30 years ago. Not today.As for OPs question, I asked him to post - pistol groups at 25 yards to answer his question. Absolutely shocked I got no response. > 45 is slightly larger than .36Correct. Weight has no bearing in this context since FMJ since both get plenty of penetration for the scenario described by OP. >muh gelI didn’t bring up gel tests. You did. Go ahead and try to show real world wound channels between 230gr .45 FMJ and 147gr (or even 115 or 124) 9mm FMJ where they have similar shot placement in similar tissue (people, animals, whatever).We’re giving you shit because you’re acting like .45 is special for being “naturally subsonic”. Our counter arguments are so are many other calibers that are just as easy or easier to get. If you want to argue .45>9mm, ok. But that’s a different thread completely.
