>Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus, Consul of Rome, in January, 49 BC>be doing Roman senatorial stuff (embezzling public funds, selling Gauls and Samnites into slavery, conspiring to murder rivals, arguing over who has the best toga, etc.)>suddenly hear a faint voice crying outside repeatedly>the voice gradually becomes louder and the words more recognizable>"CAESAR IS IN ITALY!">"CAESAR IS IN ITALY!">"CAESAR IS IN ITALY!"How do (You), the finest Roman general and statesman alive, defeat the young upstart and save the Republic?
>>64769549Bribe the populares senators and tribunes of the plebs.
>>64769549Do what they did and flee with as much of the treasury as possible with one twist: Historically they couldn't move most of it fast enough so Caesar ended up getting it which saved him. Since what was unmovable was physically impossible to destroy i'd just open the doors and let the population loot whatever was left. Left with no funds Caesar would immediately have to attack the city population in an attempt to recover what was stolen, effectively forcing him to sack his own Capitol. This would give the Senate time to rally support while ruining Caesars and leave him without funds.
>>64769576Oh, and while i'm at it destroy all records (like slave ownership, tax rolls, property) and declare that 'as the state belongs to the people so does it's works' and call upon all loyal Romans to seize and hide all public property. This would effectively mean a city wide riot as the population looted every single public building of anything of value while destroying everything needed to actually run the Empire. This would leave the Senate and whatever portion of the treasury it managed to take with it as the only functioning bureaucracy with the means to govern.Once again, Caesar would be forced to attack and sack the Roman civilian population to both restore order and recoup funds.
>>64769576>plebs looting the treasurySacrilege! Caesar would be in the right to crucify each and every one of them!
LEAVE THE CITY? JUNO'S CUNT DO YOU RUN MAD?
>>64769603Exactly! Remember it was January so they were utterly dependent on stored grain and imports so there would be no food as that would get looted as well, not to mention the city wide riot would start multiple fires. Even after he restored order he would have to have his troops kick in every door in the city to try to recover the property.>crucify each and every one of them!That's the idea, make him start his reign by killing 10-15% of the citizenry! And remember, with the records destroyed you don't even know who is a citizen or slave or even who owns what house. Imagine being the IRS trying to collect taxes with all Social Security numbers, tax records and property deeds destroyed. Ideally the Senate would take those with them but if they can't destroying them works as well.
>>64769549Execute Cicero.It won't win the war, but fuck that meandering pussy bitch.
>>64769549Save?
>>64769615>t. Mark " bitch" Antony Based should had executed you as well
>>64769615>couldn't handle the banter
>>64769549Fuck the Republic, I join Caesar.
>>64769576>>64769600>>64769614Very good, very good.Out of curiosity, how would the Senate (or anyone else) restore rule after the conquest of Rome goes horribly wrong for Caesar?As a matter of fact, what would allow the fleeing Senate to present itself as anything more than petty, vengeful banderites that ruined Rome to the peripheral governors of the empire in a bid to regain power?
>>64769614I don't think you quite realize how charismatic as fuck and popular Caesar was with the common folk, he'd already had established a policy of no man left behind which is why his legions adored him. He probably would find a solution that would probably go along him entering Rome and saying how very disappointed he is with everyone and offer them the opportunity to clean everything up and return what was stolen, and the thing is it probably would actually work. The mobs would likely round up all the trouble makers and deliver them to him for justice.
>>64769600>t. (based) Catiline
>>64769615>random violenceSee a doctor.
>>64769600>while i'm at it destroy all recordsBased og Mr. Robot.
>>64769614You think thats a big percent? Often way higher.
>>64769615Calm down, Catalina
>>64769576>>64769603>>64769614The treasury was the Temple of Saturn. You don't steal from the gods if you want to stay in it's good graces. Just because Caesar could get away with it doesn't mean others could.>>64769600That would cause riots and slave revolts, which would just push the wealthy to Caesar.You also kinda want a republic to still be there if you win the war too.
>>64770032Quo usque tandem abutere...
>>64769917>banderites What the fuck are you talking about schizo?
>>64769576>>64769600I think this is possibly the only way to win, despite the fact that by doing this you also open up a 50/50 chance that rome ceases to exist as a great power. I think it's very telling of caesar's sheer skill that the only way to beat him is the civilisational equivalent of paul atreides letting himself get stabbed in order to win the final knife duel.
>>64769615>On at least speaking terms with anyone capable of behaving like a human>Super-babby hated by violent psychopaths like Catalina, Anthony and ClodiusCicero was a yardstick for not being a total nut
>>64774102cicero is simultaneously overrated and underrated, people tend to overhype his virtue (when he was actually quite morally grey/pragmatic in practise), and he was politically incapable of stacking up to the problems of his day and see the rightness of the populares cause, simultaneously though he had many merits and was more politically competent than people give him credit for. He should be remembered primarily for his brilliant writings but otherwise be considered a mediocre political figure. Now Cunto the younger on the other hand...
>>64771082Obviously it is incredibly risky but it really is the only feasible way to slow Caesar down enough to rally resistance and erode his means of support. Besides having to sack Rome he would immediately have to use a large portion of his (very reduced) funds to buy grain and ensure his troops loyalty. >>64770468>which would just push the wealthy to Caesar.You mean the people whose personal funds are Caesars only immediate source of financing? He's going to confiscate their money, itself highly problematic if all the ownership records and tax rolls have been destroyed. There will be huge infighting as Romans do what they always do: Bribe people to alter whatever new tax and property documents are created to avoid taxation and/or use it to attack rivals. A simple bribe could give you ownership of your rivals assets while the destruction of records will result in massive tax evasion.
>>64775159Also: Make damn sure everyone knows that all the records have been destroyed; A critical aspect of this shit sandwich Caesar is about to eat is a populace that is fully aware that there is no legal means to prove who is a freeman, Citizen or slave any more.A critical aspect of the Roman system that helped prevent revolts was that slaves had the right to buy their freedom via an account help by the government. With those records destroyed slaves are free to claim they already bought their freedom while masters can say that freedmen who bought their freedom didn't; both will happen on a widespread basis.
I guess I wouldn't leave Rome and try my best to buy Caesar's legions in Italy. Leaving was kind of a bitch move.
>>64775386Caesar's legion loved Caesar exactly BECAUSE he made them wildly rich (not by Caesar standards but, you know, by average Roman standards), Pompei couldn't offer them anything they didn't either already have.If anything the risk was the other way around, the only men Pompei had on short notice were recently recruited novices who would get absolutely wiped by Caesar's 13th even at half strength. It's easy to imagine Caesar making them an offer to not-die and get paid for it.A lot of mistakes were made, but leaving Rome was honestly the only sensible option.
>>64769549Throw him a triumph befitting a conquering hero of course. Be a real shame if a few angry "barbarians" managed to get into the city and fill him full of arrows during his procession. Unfortunately they were all slain by the guards and hacked to pieces in their rage, we will never know anything other than that a great general and statesman was cut down by backwards, ignorant germanic savages.
>>64775624>It's easy to imagine Caesar making them an offer to not-die and get paid for it.during the race to Rome Caesar did in fact bribe one Pompeyan cohort to surrender the town it was defending
>>64775303Not to rain entirely on that parade, but it was usually easy to tell who was and who wasn't a slave. It's a very social society, people knew their family, their extended family, their neighbors. It's not like you could claim "I'm anon, a... freeman from... faraway? Trust me.". It's a word and oath bound society but you need *others* to vouch for you.And suppose that slaves *would* use the opportunity of the city being sacked to flee... Where would they flee to? That's what kept most slaves in check even without there being any chaos of war going on. At least their master fed them, left on their own they'd either have to become robbers or just end up caught and sold as slaves again. Not exactly an upgrade. It's a very wild society, you need your family/community to protect you because no one else will.
I have good friends in ejypt, they will help me
>>64774144>and see the rightness of the populares causeGiven that Octavian stabilised the empire by eliminating the public assembly and kicking anyone not of proper breeding out of the senate (i.e. setting fire to Caesar'a legacy and fulfilling the optimates' every dream except there was now an emperor above them), are we sure about that rightness?Sure, Octavian was morally the lowest of scum, but it ultimately worked.
>>64775852Not all of the measures will have the desired effect; regardless of how it works out it still would be a devastating blow to Caesar's ability to administer the city. The loss of stored grain in the middle of winter would be a particularly troublesome and expensive issue. The fix is almost as bad as the problem: To recreate the records and administrative structure means all those records need to be made up on the spot and very quickly. This process would be massively corrupt even by Roman standards. The greatest act of bureaucratic vandalism in Roman history would be followed by the most corrupt administration in Roman history, almost all of that corruption focused on stealing property and tax avoidance. No matter what they did the Senate was in a really bad spot; realistically their only chance was to delay Caesar and hamstring his ability to administer Rome while they tried to rally support. Nuking the administrative state may or may not accomplish that and they may or may not be able to rally support, this is a dice roll. Their options were terrible and didn't have much chance of success, this might give them a chance. If nothing else it forces Caesar to deal with a huge mess and more importantly leaves him with a weak, ineffective, incompetent and corrupt institutions that over the long term will be a ongoing problem. It's the heaviest blow the Senate could have struck at him at the time and fundamentally all they need to do is make a few announcements then burn a bunch of papyrus.
>>64775944>Octavian was morally the lowest of scumSeethe more, Anthony, at least Octavian's not licking prime Ptolemy pussy... wait
>>64775879The man who loses Rome loses the Pharaohs friendship!
>>64776113when I saw the Rubicon, I naturally threw the dice and crossed, that's my style sir!
Take all my gold and go east to Parthia and recruit a big old horde of horse archers. March back to Italy and BTFO of the legions via horse archers. Egyptians are awful troops and it would have never worked out. What Pompey needed was speed and a big force and Parthia offered both.
