are there any guns being manufactured today that would be considered saturday night specials 30-40 years ago?
Ruger LCP
Hi-Point. they're banned in my state.
>>64802945I'm surprised the heritage rough rider isn't used in that many crimes. You can get one through private sale for like $80 if you're lucky.
>>64802979unc put away dat .22 they have switches out here now
Basically all subcompact pocket guns. Ruger lcp. SW bodyguard, keltec stuff
SCCY still making crap
Bersa Thunder
Hi-point, Kel-tec and sccy for sure probaly any cheap turk pistol to.
>>64802979>heritage rough riderI'm convinced these only sell due to price and the low impulse control of a buyer. Shittiest guns ITT. Even Phoenix arms made better stuff.
>>64802945Pretty much all the SCCY and Diamondback lineup.
>>64803101this, fine throwaway, works adequately with ball ammo
>>64803122I bought the one with the comically long barrel and always get a laugh at the range. With .22WMR it's actually much more accurate than I anticipated, so I use it as a warm-up before I get my actual revolvers out.
>>64802945Charter Arms is still around. Rock Island revolvers are dirt cheap too
>>64803180>Charter ArmsI have one from the 70s/80s era.
>>64803180I want a rock island snub nose just to fill my noire detective fantasy.
>>64803194Get the eaa windicator, 6 rds and 357 safe. Still cheep
>>64802945Glocks were #1 on all the lists of "saturday night specials" that the governments wanted to ban. They're cheaply made of plastic so they don't show up on xray machines.
>>64803096Back when I considered buying one of these, not knowing how to pronounce it, I decided "sucky" was an appropriate pronunciation based on how cheap it felt.
>>64803096Not anymore. Thry folded last year.They're making guns for heaven's ghetto pawnshops now...
>>64803213good b8
>>6480294530-40 years ago was the Ring-of-Fire era, not the Saturday Night Special era. Those guns still exist as Hi-Points, mechanically they're barely distinguishable from any of the old Raven Bryco Jimenez JA Jennings Lorcin Sundance zinc trash. Phoenix Arms was the last direct descendant but they're finally gone. The Saturday Night Special era was 50-100 years ago, with cheap low-quality import revolvers and simple blowbacks prior to 1968, especially from Germany and Italy. The modern equivalent would be Turkish shotguns. Can walk into any pawn shop and find a dirt-cheap Panzer, GForce, TR, EAA, MAC, ATI, JTS, Retay, Silver Eagle, Century Arms, Omega, Blue Line Solutions, Hatsan, Four Peaks, SDS, there is an endless stream of cheap Turkish imports and nothing more over-represented than the $100-$200 pumps and $200-$300 semi-auto shotguns.
>>64803213>Sonny I remember when the Krauts first made them fancy porcelain guns, don't show up on an airport scanner and they cost more than you make in a month. Damn shame they didn't ban them then.
>>64802945Don't they still make one of those Ring Of Fire pistols in .380 or so? Bryco or Lorcin or something.>>64802979They're cheap, and actually decent for what they are, but if a hoodrat is gonna go for a .22 then it's gonna be a little pocket pistol, it's not worth it for something that's a full sized handgun like that.>>64802946>>64803091Has to be WAY cheaper than those, doesn't really count.Kel-Tec P32 could be argued to be one, as it actually is pretty cheap, but I feel that it's kind of too good to count (short-recoil when they could have made it blowback is way too nice for a Saturday Night Special).>>64803096>>64803126SCCY's and Diamondbacks are really cheap and really shitty, that's true.>>64803101Kinda.>>64803635Lol, probably about time.
>>64803723>Those guns still exist as Hi-Points, mechanically they're barely distinguishable from any of the old Raven Bryco Jimenez JA Jennings Lorcin Sundance zinc trashBasically, though they are much more smartly built, so you don't get the safety tripping the sear, or the gun just breaking because the zinc slide isn't reinforced with steel plates.
>>64804068I've always wanted to see the claimed steel reinforcement in a Hi-Point slide. Never seen someone melt one down for it or anything. I ought to try that if I find a cheap C9 slide some time.
>>64804049Nope, the last one croaked recently.Cobra enterprises.Kind of hard to believe it's all over, isn't it?The Cobra Denali and it's polymer frame is probably the last revision on that old raven we'll see unless someone's sitting on tooling and one day decides the world needs more crappy zinc guns
>>64807559Phoenix was the last, died last year, Cobra died 5 years ago. Phoenix was the last OG, they were owned by the Jennings family that started it all.
>>64807683Shit you're right.I was going to say Phoenix but my wires got crossed because some company bought the tooling (which was previously used by Davis) to their derringer line and briefly restarted production under the name "Old West".
>>64803723I've heard Hi-Points are a lot more reliable than people give them credit for (their handguns and factory mags, that is). Not that it's anywhere close to being a glowing endorsement.
>>64803122A lot of people buy them. A lot of old people buy them as well. They're great for a granny and they have the safety. If you're wondering who the market is for these things it's pretty much everyone. I have one that's cracked and split in the wood handle and I taped it back together. This thing's been working for about 10 years now shooting at critters in the backyard and whatever else I want to shoot. I've never cleaned it.
>>64807559>>64807683>>64807806Wonder if it's truly the end of that old style of pistol?The Hi-Point is related, but it's significantly refined as a weapon and product. It would be interesting to see if Hi-Point would ever do pocket pistols, maybe do a small one in .32, so almost like the old Ring Of Fire guns, only not-shitty.
>>64808447They are. The people behind it basically decided that they should make something like those Ring Of Fire guns, but instead of making it really shitty and sketchy, they'd make it ok. They are clunky, awkward, ugly, heavy, have poor ergos and triggers, and kinda weird recoil, BUT, they function quite reliably, they are safe, they are hard to break, and they are actually pretty accurate (fixed barrels always are), along with Hi-Point being willing to fix just about anything.Basically:>what if we did inexpensive autos using zinc alloy>like Ring Of Fire pistols>but instead of in little mousegun calibers, we made them in like 9mm and .45>and we tried to make them not fragile and shitty>and so that the safety works>and so the slide doesn't break>and so the magazine could actually be fully loaded>and we did actual QC>and we gave people a good warrantyIt's basically if those old pistols were made in an honest way. This also includes a few 'forensic features' due to the inevitability of inexpensive firearms:>less common left-hand twist rifling with less common numbers of lands and grooves (7 for the .45, for instance)>firing pin doubles as the ejector, and is also off-center, thus the dimple in the primer also is>the way the breech face is manufactured means there's always this one circular toolmark on it, which will always leave its distinct outline on the case headBasically ensuring that if a bullet or/and casing is recovered on a crime scene, forensics will be able to tell right away that the weapon in question is most likely a Hi-Point model that they're looking for. It also has its serials stamped twice, once on the outside, and then again somewhere hidden inside the gun, so you could only truly eradicate the serials by destroying the pistol.The original Ring Of Fire pistols did not have any such effort to them, and there were a lot of VERY shady things with those people and their companies.
>>64803723>mechanically they're barely distinguishable Really? How much of that is just down to being single stack straight blowbacks that make significant use of zamak?Because proto-hipoint starting with 9mm straight out the gate with 9mm then quickly getting out a .45 and .40 from their partner companies when pretty much ever rendition of the 9mm classic ring of fire gun is sketchy at best to outright unsafe to fire seems odd.Not trying to call you out I'm genuinely curious to learn more about these shitty guns
>>64808708Yay I get to do the autism:In 1968, George Jennings was informed that he'd no longer be able to buy $10 Italian shitimports anymore, and he were mad. So he walked into a pawn shop and picked through the $4 used imports, then brought home the one with the fewest parts: a Menz Liliput. (not a Schreckschuss/blank firing one) The Liliput is a small cheapened derivative of the Walther Model 1. The lockwork hasn't seen any significant change since Walther came up with it in 1910. The designer, Franz Pfannl, same guy who designed the 2.7mm Kolibri, deliberately revised it to be cheaper to make than other small arms of the time. The only patent relating to the Liliput is for a "cheaper method of manufacturing" relating to how the frames and barrels are made. Then George Jennings cloned it as the Raven MP-25 in 1969/1970 and from there we get all the Ring-of-Fire zinc shitbangers. Cross-compatible parts between the various brands was not uncommon. Raven, Jennings, Bryco, Davis, Lorcin, Sundance, Jimenez, JA, Phoenix, Cobra, Haskell, Iberia, Stallard, Beemiller/HiPoint, all Liliput derivatives that owe their legacy to Walther.
>>64809799Trying to avoid going too hard here, the real history here is Walther and Menz, there were several other related pistols, there are obvious things taken from later Walthers (like the Model 5 and Model 9) even though Franz originally copied the lockwork of a Model 1, I haven't even mentioned CYKA or Nordflugwerke or the other pistols leading up to the Liliput, there's a lot more to this but the short version is there.
>>64803096My buddy got one a while ago and quickly sold it off. Kind of wanted it myself though. If you ask me, budget ghettoblasters have a unique aesthetic.>>64803101I’ve heard so many glowing opinions on these that getting one’s high on my list. Pawn shop near me has one for $250
>>64804049The p-32 is the same price as an LCP 1.
>>64811170Unless it's new $250 is high for the basic bitch single stack thunder
Seems like a good thread to ask. How much should you pay for an old Rossi snub nose and what warning signs should you look out for in regards to condition?
>>64811170I was given a Bersa Thunder, and free is just about the right price for them. Worse in every way than my LCP except when I want my half-blind friends to think I have a Walther. AND you can get an LCP cheaper than $250.
>>64802945To my knowledge Hi-Point is the closest, in that they still make blowback pistols with cast Zamak slides.Phoenix Arms (Raven) is gone.Jimenez Arms (Bryco Jennings) is gone.Cobra Enterprises (Lorcin) is gone.Most of them went under recently because you can get a wide range of modern 9mm pistols with generous magazine capacity for nearly the same price as their straight blowback .22s, .25s and 380s.You can buy a SAR B6C for under $200 and that's a polymer framed CZ-75 clone. A shitty one, but still a much better design. Or a Taurus G3. Or a SCCY (which are now gone too). Or an LCP. Or a Kel-Tec. All of those are miles better than the old Lorcin/Bryco/Raven/RGs.The quality of cheap compact 9mm pistols has simply moved on. If the metric is cheap guns, there are more than ever. If the metric is dogshit cast Zinc blowback 25s then those are pretty much dead now.>>64802979That is a fair point. Heritage held on because they still have a niche as dirt cheap plinkers and their low price point means that the absolute lowest rank of criminals do use them sometimes. The limiting factor is.>Single action.>Glacially slow gate loader.>22LR, MAYBE .22 Mag>Most are too large to conceal.A gun is a gun, but even the dumbest hood rat would be looking to upgrade an RR at the earliest opportunity. After all Tyrone has a P80 with a giggle switch so what Timmy gonna do with a single action .22?>>64808447They are. Sort of like what >>64808698says they approached the SNS design scientifically to make the best shitty gun possible and they actually have a good reputation for what it is.>>64816082Follow the revolver checkout procedure. Old Rossis can be surprisingly decent, but I would expect to pay $200-300 at most.
>>64803182Bad ass gat.
>>64808698The sketchiness of the old Ring Of Fire people can't be understated. Aside from the one guy who was convicted for CP, those factories would hire felons and shit, who weren't always sober at work, and some would indeed steal guns from production lines to sell to other criminals.Together with the dubious safety of the products in question, those companies really made for some of the worst optics which the industry could possibly have back in their heydays, and they did more harm to society than what was acceptable.Hi-Point reinventing all of this as a more legit and honest product is probably what slowly killed those companies over time. They weren't just a better product, they fully recognized that inevitability of really inexpensive weapons and took enough responsibility to help mitigate some of that damage.
Obligatory
>>64816082Check the model and serial number because some old Rossis had recalls
>>64816919>>64816967Y'all sure love glazing Deeb with made-up history, no need for that. The Maverick was just a copy a ring-of-fire trash gun, with a heavier slide. That's it, there's no great big science or tons of thought or effort behind it. They made the slides as fat and heavy as they actually should be instead of focusing on aesthetics, so your big fat ugly Stallard JS9 would easily outlast a shiny nickel-plated Jennings Nine or Lorcin L9. They didn't even start with the steel reinforced slide or the polymer frame, they were all-Zamak slides on aluminum frames originally just like most of their competitors. People talk about how "good" Hi-Points are and don't realize how bad they really were, those early Maverick/Stallard/Haskell guns were hot fucking garbage and the only thing they had over other zinc trash of the time was weight. The Stallard JS-9 was a 40oz gun competing with the 30oz guns from Jennings/Bryco/Lorcin/Jimenez, and switching to a polymer frame brought it down to the same 30oz as their competitors despite the slide weighing nearly double that of a Lorcin L9 or Jennings Nine slide.
>>64817044>Hi-Point wasn't good before it was actually Hi-PointOk.
>>64817059They were and still are trash, nothing has changed, they're just the last one left on the shelf.
>>64817061Nothing has changed, except for the steel plates and polymer frames you talked about?
>>64817075Steel reinforcement in the slide, polymer frame, mag disconnect safety, there might've been one other safety thing I'm forgetting but I might just be mixed up with the mag disconnect safety. I'm still mad that I've never seen the steel reinforcement, never seen it described in drawings and never seen someone extract it from the slide. I've even seen folks melt Hi-Point slides, but any steel just ends up with the slag and discarded. I love shit guns, cheap Saturday Night Specials and Ring-of-Fire finger-removers, but damn it's hard not to cringe when retards share their completely baseless fantasies like:>Hi-Point reinventing all of this as a more legit and honest product is probably what slowly killed those companies over time. They weren't just a better product, they fully recognized that inevitability of really inexpensive weapons and took enough responsibility to help mitigate some of that damage.
>>64817117That's true though, Deel worked with law enforcement and shit, the pistols having all those forensic tells are a deliberate change.
>>64817247That's true, in 1994 they added shit to make their guns more easily traceable. This is because it was 1994 and they wanted to stay in business, not because of altruism.
>>64817280You don't think it can be both?
>>64817293
>>64816967Interestingly, Cobra specifically seemed to be dreaming of greater things. They had a few original guns that weren't just yet another take onnthe raven.Well original is a stretch but they were bootlegging new things.Pic related, the patriot 45.It's a intratec CAT/Sardius SD clone that sometimes gets misattributed as a simplified glockoff
>>64817317The patriot 9 here is a kel tec clone afaik
>>64817317Against my better judgement I am on the lookout for one of those for my SNS collection. Last CAT-9 I spotted the seller actually wanted $1500 because he thought it was the same as a TEC-9. Mofo that thing has a single groove down the barrel to meet the minimum legal definition of having rifling, I'm not paying more than a hundred bucks. The Cobra version probably has regular rifling, which is less interesting but probably for the best.
>>64817353Even a revolver, how about that.
>>64817371If you want the full box set of these action figure glock looking things keep an eye out for the original, sardius/sirkis SD9.No idea how they stack up against each other in the quality/existence of rifling department.
>>64817404>George Kellgren coke fueled fever dream >Made in Israel I am interested, yes
>>64803200I got a Windicator on a whim and it's a ton of fun to shoot. Surprisingly accurate too. I was able to clean up a dueling tree with it at 25 yards from double action on my first try.
>>64817317Well it turns out I was wrong. They bought the line from Republic arms when they went bust.The same story with the kel tecs and talon.I geyss I shouldn't be surprised given they bought their derringer and the original ring of fire tooling from Davis.Special thanks to the violence policy center for preserving this old ad and other information.They've been useful when researching various obscure SnSes before kek
>>64817512Rather unflatteringly, this is the first image that comes up when you search for the talon industries gun that would later become the patriot 9.No idea who they bought the revolver from. Perhaps that was actually cooked up by them, along with the denali polymer framed ravenmorphs
>>64803101This boomer was trying to sell his Thunder at gun show I went to. He had printed out the Wikipedia article for the gun as well as a bunch of Arfcom posts talking about how good it was to try to convince someone to buy it. He cornered me and started angrily thumbing through screenshots when I told him "Yeah I guess it's alright for a cheap handgun."
>>64807559This looks great for when you need to shoot at someone from point blank range
>>64817117I just checked the hipoint slides I had with a strong magnet and the steel reinforcement is just the breech face and firing pin channel, in the haskell just the breech face. The ones I have are on the older side, .45 and .40 so it's not definitive that a new 9mm yeet cannon won't have steel plates in the sides, but I bet they won't.
>>64817044>"The only difference was Hi-Points were heavier."Anon, they were also more reliable; you can shoot a full mag off a Hi-Point, but you are unlikely to do so from its ring of fire competitors.
anyone curious about how many rounds of .22 mag will cut the topstrap of a heritage rough rider? I've fired at least maybe 150 to 200 rds of .22mag and at least 500 of .22lr standard velocity through it and definitely have at least a .030 thou ridge behind the forcing cone? do you guys think you could shoot one of these things to death like the Ruger Blackhawk .357 maximums?
>>64803122its a gun and its less than 100 bucks.its my go-to for training girls how to shoot since its single action and has a safety
>>64802945I think the dynamics have changed too much. Hi-Points are still a thing but the ring of fire is largely dismantled. Meanwhile the cheapest shittiest gun I can think of that I might realistically murder someone with is a S&W Sigma gen 2 and that's like $300 for a gun that's still OK. $400 gets you into something like an APX or XD or one of CZ's cheaper options.
>>64819157The gca changed the legal environment enough to make saturday night specials a thing of the past, one of its objectives. The closest thing I can think of in the modern era are 3d printed burners like a gambino, but gun printers are generally nerds with enough impulse control to not shoot people in bar fights.
>>64816926It survived a total-loss house fire, without a safe, it's lucky.
>>64819157>>64819352Do you niggers exist in another dimension?Because I live in a west coast shithole with God awful CoL and for 200 flat you can still get some cheap ass Ruger and a hi point or heritage revolver for cheaper.
>>64819601Those aren't pocket guns.
>>64819856The LCP is by definition a pocket gun.As is the ec9s.Both are under $250 all damn day unless your local Ruger man fuckin hates you
>>64819601A raven 25 was $12 new in the 70s, $99 in today's dollars, imports were cheaper. You can still get a gun relatively cheaply if you hunt around but background checks coupled with import restrictions did eventually slow the flow of guns to poor people.
>>64820802>$99 in today's dollars
>>64819359Is the heat treatment still okay?
>>64818071That's a big if you got one with a good magazine. A lot of them jam on a full mag untill they're broken in. Some never fucking work.Thankfully hi point is more than happy to give you free new ones through the warranty system
>>64822782The heat treatment getting fucked up by a house fire isn't a concern if it was made of cheese-grade Chinesium ally that was never heat treated in the first place. Checkmate Atheists.
>>64819352Unfortunately a lot of these nerds figured out you can churn 3d printed shit out for sale to the lowest rung of street crooks and make a shitload of drug money in the process. Poly80s and the like are ridiculously common, and the all-poly single shot printed throwaways are starting to get some use with the absolute scum tier.
>>64820527LCP II is getting legacy LCP cheap no. I wonder how long the original is for this world.Ec9 and the whole LC9 family is dead though, replaced by something called the max-9.Surprised by how expensive the security 9 still is given what it replaces, I wonder if Taurus muscled them out there
>>64825783I want an LCP32
>>64820527Sexo
>>64826824I feel like I remember .32 conversion barrels existing also the Beretta boku no pico but nothing comes up in a search.Though really you'd want something like a direct Ruger take on the p32.
>>64803122I like my rough riders. I dont care how shit they are because they always shoot and for a 22 thats all I want.
>>64828434It's a shame they lost the lifetime warranty when Taurus discontinued them throughout their brands. I don't think I'd buy one over a wrangler at this point
>>64820802How many new production .25 acp guns are left in the American market? The PSA, theoretically the .25 version of the bobcat. Is taurus still selling their .25?
>>64829980Seecamp just introduced a .25 model.
>>64830000Well I'll be.I forgot they were still in business, much less announcing a new gun.Well a reintroduction of an old gun but still neat
>>64829980Seecamp is bringing the LWS-25 back after a 40 year absence, $545. They're doing it solely because they couldn't make it work in 22LR, shameful. The PSA-25 starts at $1250, the Guardian 25 is discontinued, Phoenix Arms is dead, the 25ACP Bobcat was quietly phased out. That's about it.
>>64830017there is that one TURBO BOOMER AUTISM SUPER BOOMER MEGA BOOMER company that is OBSESSED with that one old .25 design and sells new ones for like $4,000anyone know who I'm talking about? their website is a hoot
>>64830023ah here we go https://www.precisionsmallarms.com/psa-25-pistols-new-production/new-production-psa-25-pistols/GRAND-EXHIBITION-SERIES-PISTOLS/thiery-duchet-matched-pair-engraved-hot-blue
>>64830017I wonder if you could make a modern cleansheet .25 that's appreciably smaller or lighter than a p32?I know even in the best case it won't be THAT appreciably so but I still wonder
>>64830024Yes, that's the PSA-25, starts at $1250.
>>64830042Appreciably smaller means ergonomic absurdity. Someone not expecting sales should do it anyway.
>>64830067>ergonomic absurdityMaybe for you, pal but have you ever considered the untapped midget market?
>>64830042Kek-tec could do like their top loading poly pistols and make something absurdly tiny, especially if they shave mag capacity to 5 rounds or less. Imagine something the size of an NAA Mini but with a slightly longer grip and significantly thinner.
>>64830087I know it's not exactly a revolutionary video around here but I'd really like to see a new caliber in the .25-.32 ACP class that's not trying to be significantly higher pressure but with modern cartridge design. Something that can fit in existing mouse guns.A lot of people perceived .30 super carry like this when for whatever reason it was service pistol class, therefore stuck competing with 9mm. As I see it this is what Kelgren is going for with the PR-57 given so much oomph is lost from that short barrel. The high pressure of 5.7 is wasted a bit. But the capacity is what's being chased here.So the length and a great deal of the pressure is only a hindrance
>>64803182That thing is Fallout af.10/10.
>>64831381Idk if this is still a thing, they also made .25 NAA which is .32 auto necked down to .25.
>>64831724Nah it's ded along with the .380 neckled down to .32 they made.I guess .25 NAA does most of what I'm asking for but there's no magazine capacity gainz over even the .380 guardian despite it being fully rimless. Not sure if this is on NAA or inherent to the cartridge.I have to admire the absolute brass balls a tiny operation NAA had to release TWO new and very niche handgun calibers like that. Shame neither took off.
>>64803182I've always wanted one of those.
>>64808447>>64808698>>64808688>>64808688I own a C9 and YC9 and love both. You gotta understand the Hi Point guns are basically an engineering project done by a metal fabrication company that said "How cheaply can a barebones firearm be made in America, without it actually turning into a Saturday night special, so it doesn't break or blow up but a 19 year old pizza delivery worker can still afford it?"The answer was the C9 and it does actually run IF you keep it clean and safe and oiled and rust free. The YC9 was a upgrade with actual features. If you look at Hi Point as a metal fabrication company and not a Firearms creator then you'll start to understand. For what it is, the C9 achieved perfect fitment into its niche. I unironically shill for Hi Point because of this.
>>64830087A single stack in that form factor could have a grip only ~.5'' wide. Kind of an interesting thought. Sounds unpleasant to shoot, but exceptionally concealable.
>>64820527SSSEEEEEEEXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOO
>>64827301>>64832523That's a boy
>>64832588dont care
>>64832588
>>64832933Don't be rude.
>>64833227Fuck off, cunt.
>>64832441I like how Hi-Point orders metal pipe as the stock for their barrels.
>>64834042It works if you use a good seamless steel pipe. You can even DIY rifle some of that at home and make a decent barrel.
>>64804049>>64803126What is Diamondback's quality like these days? They seem to be aiming upmarket with a new revolver.Hardly any emphasis on the website towards their ghetto blasters.>cocoa, flAre they like SCCY and formed by renegade kel tec engineers
>>64834909Diamondback makes cheap trash guns, but they definitely have the capacity to do more. Big company, lots of branches, plenty of money. I like a lot of their guns, I have a pair of DB380s, but they've all always been cheap shit. The SDRs are just cheapened clones of the Kimber K6, and they run 25%-50% less for their equivalent models. Expect cosmetic flaws that the factory gives zero shits about and your warranty won't touch. On the other hand, Kimber has fucking terrible QC and their warranty department consists of one guy with a roll of "seems fine to me" stickers. Diamondback will at least get your gun running and not tell you to go fuck yourself, but they will also tell you to ignore the new scratches from the Harbor Freight vise they had it in. I'd probably choose the SDR over a K6, but I wouldn't take either over the SP101 which costs similar to the SDR, significantly less than the K6, and has better fit, finish, overall quality, and warranty than either the Diamondback or the Kimber.
>>64818028Hipoints are dummy thicc and are low pressure chambered tho. Zamak ain't nice but unless you create an actual grenade loading it should keep you safe
>>64835112>low pressure chambered thoThey're all +P rated
>>64835097I'm actually more interested in their high standard double 9 clone and possibly their bepis looking semiautomatics.Just look at these dudes
>>64835752The DB380 and DB9 are cute and fun, but they're hot garbage, can't compete with Kel-Tec fit & finish or materials quality. The AM2 is no better, maybe if it was $200. Arguably better than the FS9 it replaced. Expect burs, unbroken edges, flashing, chips, scuffs, they look lightly used when they're fresh out of the box.
>>64835799Are the little ones kel tec clones?What about the AM2?Is it a glockoff?I really don't expect anything when it comes to quality, I'd only buy one if it was a screaming deal on a new gun because I have a feeling I may need to use that lifetime warranty.Still nice to see a cheap shit company that still has a lifetime warranty after Taurus went 1 year.Fuck that lol
>>64835812The little ones are bespoke, their own thing, vaguely Glock-like but not Glock clones. Very simple. The AM2 is a shit-tier Glock clone, nothing special there.
>>64835446Are they? The polymers ones are but I'm not sure the zinc/nickel alloy ones were.>>64835752There was a guy that was obsessed with the db380 until he bought a Kahr .380.https://www.youtube.com/@spnfirearms/videos
>>64835871The early Hi-Points were Aluminum frames, later polymer. The slides are and have always been Zamak.
>>64835821Huh. Wonder if there's sardius/intratec CAT DNA in there.I wish I could find an exploded parts diagram to cross reference.Ghetto blaster genealogy has me spellbound
>>64836133I mean, they're really not similar in any way at all aside from the fact that they're striker fired. There are no similarities in their design or functionality, they're really very different. Google around for parts kits if you can't find diagrams for things, or look for patents.
>>64836168You're right. I read that they were both striker DAO, the simplified glock comparisons and got buck fever.
>>64836133As an avid lover of shitbangers I'll tell you I've never found anything that actually shares anything with the Sirkis/Sardius guns. Like, no derivatives, only cheap copies. At different times while looking into various guns I've wondered if there was a connection and there never is. It's just a cheap shit straight-blowback sheet-metal shit gun from Israel that became a cheap shit plastic gun with a cast-steel slide, there was never anything novel about it.
>>64836190>no derivatives, only cheap copiesI'm not sure what you mean here. I'd consider even something like a sedco a raven derivative even if it's the textbook definition of a cheap copy.As far as I know, the Sirkis/sardius influenced/was copied by intratec and then that was copied/built on by the cobra patriot 45.
>>64802945no. saturday night specials were measured by their melting temperature. really.
>>64836201Sirkis designed both the CAT-9 and Patriot-45. The CAT-9 was just his previous Sardius slightly modified for Intratec's manufacturing. The Patriot-45 is further removed, not a Sardius at all, it's a scaled-up Kel-Tec derivative with a Sirkis shaped trigger guard and a cast steel slide, I'd actually compare it to a Taurus Millennium PT-145 being a striker-fired Kel-Tec derivative.
>>64836203How do poly pistols even pass melt point tests? Does the polymer really melt at a higher temperature than zamak?Seems with the demise of pretty much the entire cast of pot metal snses these laws exist solely to bully hi point and cheap .22 cowboy revolvers.
>>64836210Genuinely enlightening, anon.I always forget taurus as a player in this story through their American division making US specific designs to dodge GCA.Speaking of which, I remember when these things were screaming cheap online for a while. Wonder how they are?
>>64836223The TCP is fabulous and I regret selling mine. There are many P3-AT clones but there are only two good ones, the Ruger LCP and Taurus TCP. It's nearly 1:1 a Kel-Tec P3-AT and they didn't fuck it up, it's a great little gun and was at one time a good cheap alternative to the LCP or P3-AT. The spiritual successor is the Spectrum, and I fucking adore the Spectrum but they're garbage and worth absolutely nothing.
>>64836240Neat! I'll have to remember that. I've been slowly looking more into taurus and bersa guns beyond the ones everyone knows because there's just so many of them and almost nobody is talking about them.What's wrong with the taurus autism if you don't mind me asking? I only remember the obvious jokes and it being concurrent with the curve.
>>64836260Genuinely bad. Light strikes, FTF, FTE, bad trigger even for what it is, they're famously bad at being guns. It was a big flop, the first design to come from the All-American team and they fucked it pretty hard.
>>64836269Weird how they could just go and significantly fuck up something as simple as a kel tec clone.Not that other companies haven't, but doing it after making making a perfectly good one is something else
>>64836805The Spectrum isn't a hard story really. As soon as they had the design down visually, they announced it. Still tons of development to do, still tons of refinement required, but nope, looks pretty, announced. Then they hound the team to get it out the door ASAP, we've already announced it get it done what's taking so long?! So they rush it out the door unfinished. Taurus themselves admitted as much, they fucked up horribly by announcing it long before it was ready then scrambling to get it out because they had announced it. If they had just let it cook for another year and announced it when it was good and ready this wouldn't have happened.
>>64802945hi-point and even more aggressive commoditization of the gun market has pretty much rendered that category extinct
>>64802979It's not used because not enough law-abiding gun owners are buying them and then keeping them in their glove boxes, under their seats, or on their nightstands to be stolen. ARs and glocks are, because that's what the average mouth breathing american abuses.
>>64802979As someone who window shops a lot of ex evidence guns, they definitely do.Pretty much every cheap shitty .22 SAA clone does.Though it's more often older German and Italian ones because those are the ones getting dug up from grandpa's closet
>>64834909I want Diamondback to be better so badly. Their sidekick is a clone of a High Standard Sentinel IIRC and basically every time I look for a 22LR revolver it's the only new option I seem to like. DA/SA, swing out cylinder, doesn't look too cerakoted tacticool etc. Then I look up reviews and remember why I don't own one. Personally I'm stuck between buying an old Sentinel (which is swing-out IIRC) or an H&R 999 or one of the similar models. Only other option is really S&W who wants $$$ for it. No one seems to make a reasonably sized 22LR revolver (which is also: DA/SA, swing out, not $800+, not shit) anymore.
>>64838084Simpatico. I was considering the LCRX.Link relsted is also on my radar.https://palmettostatearmory.com/rock-island-armory-al22-4-22-lr-revolver-blued-al22b.htmlI also don't know shit on how modern charter arms is.But otherwise I'm in the same place.Based high standard appreciator btw.
>>64837020And they never fixed it?There's no good serial number range or anything? I guess it already had enough bad press and they probably weren't doing so hot in the segment so it just makes sense to call the whole thing a wash and focus on strength.Still it's strange to look at how many redundant 9mms Taurus is currently selling and see the only .380 be their weird pseudo Beretta cheetah.
>>64839887It flopped too hard. When a pistol debuts and all the debut review articles are about what a piece of shit it is, it's not worth saving. Taurus really is erratic, might come as a surprise but I'm pretty sure they're bad at their job. They've made the same mistakes over and over, rushing products to market, regretting it, trying to save face. Always with lightly-developed guns that are usually cheaper clones of other peoples guns.>George Kellgren invents new inexpensive compact format for handguns>Let's copy it, but make it striker-fired instead of hammer, it'll be even cheaper that way!>Voluntary recall of nearly 1 million Taurus Millennium and other PT-series pistols (PT-111, PT-132, PT-138, PT-140, PT-145, PT-745, PT-609, PT-640, PT-24/7) sold between 1997 and 2013.It's not like they can't make a good gun, they've done it before, but it feels more like luck of the draw. Their best pistols have always been the ones that are the most direct clones of others, like the TCP being a nearly 1:1 P3-AT. Every revision they make things just get worse, like with the Taurus Curve which is a derivative of the TCP and is also an unreliable steaming pile of shit. The PT22 was a cheapened Beretta clone with a terrible trigger, now it's the TUC22 which sure looks neat, still has a terrible trigger, has a lower production cost but a higher retail price than the PT22 it replaced, and is no more reliable. Taurus is just bad at this.
>>64838704Yeah that looks like your best bet these days. Still full-size instead of 22 sized as they mention it's built on the same frame as their .357 mag (probably their equivalent of one step above k frame?) and $600 but it being dedicated 22LR and seemingly solid make it a pretty decent choice. I still miss the old old 22s where they were comically small-framed (like, IJ 32/22 top break small or less) either with grips to match or oversized ones to make it handle more like a k-frame and barrels thin enough that (yes I actually checked) they are actually slightly thinner than the tube mag on one of my 22s. Yet a lot of those were gate loaded or you have to remove the cylinder to load them, however. It seems none of my "perfect" handguns actually exist and/or are not in production lol.
>>64841903The RIA is one they're importing from Alfa proj in the Czech Republic. They've trickled in before but it seems like RIA is betting big on them.I worry they'll flop because of the terrible reputation RIA's pinoy made revolvers have.
>>64840601Know anything about the taurus TH series?
>>64844697Nothing. Supposed to be "possibly the best" they've ever made, whatever that means. I don't have much interest in good guns.
>>64844697Seem like ok guns but at their price point you're close to Ruger Security 9/American prices, Glonk trade ins too.
>>64803635that film should be mandatory in schools
>>64844778I was mostly interested in the 10mm version.But understandably I am a bit worried about the words 10mm and Taurus together
>>64832588would still rayp
>>64846101Stay far away, best case scenario you'll have a gun that jams all the time, worst case you have a grenade in your hand. If you really want a hammer fired polymer 10mm save up 200 more and get a tanfoglio, they've been making them a while and the aftermarket support is way better.
>>64846101I saw that but figured you just saved the first stock image that came up. What ammo do you plan shooting through it? I heard most commercial 10mm is just loaded to .40 S&W spec.
>>64846101There are much better 10mm options at similar pricing, I wouldn't play that game. It's fun when they're $100 380s at the pawn shop but this is different.
>>64847088>>64847122You guys really think Taurus would just make a gun in 10mm and expect it blow up? You think that?
>>64847160I think Taurus is banking on the buyers not having the funds to shoot 10mm enough for a catastrophic failure to happen.Every time I see him I hear "at midwayusa, fast shipping means fast"
>>64847160I just expect it to be a piece of shit compared to a gun made by a company with a better reputation and better quality control.
>>64838084>High Standard Sentinel>Sportsman 999It's been very disheartening to watch these two skyrocket in price so dramatically
>>64844697>Taurus calling their hammer fired full size the THWhat did they mean by this?
>>64851452I still remember their lightly shake to fire system.Sig refined it to the thought based firing system
>>64808459It's nice to see bot posters posting my text from a few years ago. My exact text.
>>64828530The Wrangler is just such a solid basic bitch .22, I love it.
>>64855300I got the silver cerakoted Super Wrangler. It's super fun to shoot, reliable as fuck, more accurate than I am, and frankly .22 WMR out of a 5.5" barrel isn't anything to sneeze at.
>>64803182I want a Bulldog for Son of Sam kino.
>>64803180>>64803182What are the good and bad eras for charter?I understand they've had a real quality rollercoaster over the years.
>>64858155I couldn't tell you, that one in the picture belongs to my dad, he got it in the 70s/80s. It survived a house fire. I carry it when I visit him out of state. Saves me the hassle of flying with my own gun. Charter Arms still makes the undercover, I've been thinking about buying one for the purpose of comparing.
>>64803635Really? I'm usually not one to celebrate the failure of any non-cucked gun manufacturer, but I derive particular enjoyment from this because I remember that during the exploding guns problem retarded redditors were shilling them hard as if that was acceptable at all, God that was awful
>>64858296I have a dread fascination with the .40 pitbull, especially in some of the awful colorways they sell it in.Though the pitbull 's no moonclip system is interesting. Wonder how well it works?
>>64858333That's a mild example of a garish charter colorway btw. It can get trashier.
>>64824836A shitload of drug money, you say?
I want a cheap snub nose revolver in 38, do I go with taurus, charter, or that heritage one? Or just buy a used smith?
>>64862941If you are sure that you just want it in .38 SPL and that you'll never want to shoot .357 Magnum, then your best options are to find a used S&W or get the Charter Arms.
>>64862941As a heads-up the heritage is a taurus. One of the older 85s I think. Not condemning it, just word to the wise. Rossi is relaunching too, not exactly sure what differs from a taurus but they're out there.Ruger LCR/LCRx dan also be found pretty cheap if that's your thing.Oh and there's the windicator, not dure what to make of it but it'sbout there in your presumed price range
>>64847101>I heard most commercial 10mm is just loaded to .40 S&W spec.Cheap blasting ammo sure but all sorts of hot ammo is available and there's always handloading
>>64858342>leopard print snubbyPerfect for chavs, gyarus, and ratchets.
>>64866513Ruger does a factory leopard too but holy shit it's bad
>>64866592Ahhh now that's betterDone by some ffl that womanifies guns. No idea why ruger can't look at least somewhere close to this
>>64866596And someone's rainbow leopard pico.Just because I think it's neat.Also rip Pico, I never heard anything good about it but they offered a .32 factory barrel and that's pretty cool.
>>64866596>>64866605>tfw no foxy mama to call you "baby" and "suga" at the range
>>64866605>Let's get in on the emerging Kel-Tec clone market.>We can make ours more expensive, with a smaller grip, higher bore axis, more weight, and the same capacity.Looks and shoots like it has Down's. I really don't know what Beretta was thinking with the Pico.
>>64866629As I recall they had issues working at all on top of that. No idea if beretta ever fixed that.
>>64866919Nope, they pretty much abandoned all 12 people who bought a Pico.
>>64802945I wonder what these little shitty things are up to right now?
>>64870019Sitting on shelves all over the country for $99. Not in any pockets, gun safes, or spud boxes, exclusively on store shelves.
>>64870029I remember seeing one in my local bi mart's pistol case and being baffled at it.Sure, bi mart sells a lot of cheap guns but a hi point is right there, being infinitely better for not much more expense.Seems like bi mart agreed with my sentiment as they're no longer listed on the website.I was thinking about buying one as a novelty but after watching a review I can't stomach the bizarrely unsafe loading procedure
>>64870077I could tout it as a tackle-box gun for thumping catfish if it were .32ACP and $35. For $99 and 9mm I can't bring myself to do it, it'd just be a waste.
>>64870019Love that little gun.
>>64808447there's plenty of stress/torture tests on youtube of hi-points, they'll go bang in spite of whatever neglect/abuse you throw at them. if there was more aftermarket support for them, they'd likely be upgraded from nig-tier to value-tier
>>64802945going off of crime stats, probably glock or m&p shield. i'd imagine criminals are more likely to use a stolen gun than make a cheap legal purchase
>>64870865but they're sooo uglywhy can't the hi point people make the things look modern pistols and less like a 5yo's crayon drawing? is it impossible?most turn of the century pistols had better aesthetics than hi points
>>64871029There's no getting around needing a big, fat slide when you're using zamak like hi point does unless you go with dense ass steel like pic related and that ruins HP's prime selling point of being super cheap
>>64870104I don't see why no one's made a super cheap .22 or .22 magnum single shot for this kind of purpose.I guess the cheap zinc cowboy revolvers are cheap enough to serve the purpose
>>64871277They have. You take a mistimed/damaged .22 revolver, ream the barrel for magnun rounds, cut out the cylinder using a shortened bore pin to keep access, add a pivot at the nose and a lock over the rear to make it a single-shot top-break. Was a field-expedient repair once upon a time for busted BP guns as well.
>>64802945How cheap is cheap for a handgun? I saw a hi-point for $80 in a pawn shop. I feel bad for whoever sold that shit for $30 lmao.
>>64871406>ream the barrel for magnun rounds.22 LR and .22 mag projectiles are the same diameter
>>64870896criminals often rob the poor so the stolen guns can easily already be some shitty sns
>>64872374different case size, basically to stop people putting 22 mag into 22lr
>>64816919>but even the dumbest hood rat would be looking to upgrade an RR at the earliest opportunity.Speak for yourself
>>64872374>.22 LR and .22 mag projectiles are the same diameter1: Tell me, again, where exactly does the cartridge go in a revolver barrel?2: Diameter yes, length no. Since you're already cutting a new chamber into an existing barrel, there's little harm in reaming it to Magnum length if you have the space and a decent lock-up. >>64872301Anything under $200 is pretty cheap, under $100 is usually "why exactly is this so inexpensive, again?"-tier. If you see one for sub-50 it's almost always a Gunsmith Special where the parts and hours required to fix the damn thing are twice what it costs to just buy a new gun. That's how I got my Phoenix .25 for $40 - broken recoil springs that only cost about $10 to replace
>>64874109It's such bullshit.Some giant retards blow up their hands <<<<< not having to swap cylinders in revolvers
>>64874580That's a Smith & Wesson Model 15-3
>>64807559Nooooo zinc come backkk
>>64880989
>>64870019hell yeah
>>64882963Some mad lad on gunborker is making aftermarket railed frames for these.
>>64883108lmao
>>64883108>>64882963Our forefathers wouldn't even recognise that as a gun
That stupid palm pistol thing. Even 100 years ago, immediately recognised as a piece of shit gun fit only for hookers
>>64883286I think that without the silencer on, they might intuit that it's a gun of some sort.I can also see some of them being amused that someone would go out of their way to make a complete piece of shit like that (with machining consistency which would be that of dreams in the 1700s), when we already have had reliable and high quality revolvers, and smokeless automatics with magazines, for over a century.
>>64883286I think they might have an easier time recognizing it as a firearm than some later generations lol
>>64835752>>64835799Why do diamondback parts kits get bid up over $100 when keltec kits go for around $50?
>>64883108He had a mold made for that? Or is it a very clean nylon print?
>>64883288Stupid palm pistol thing? What recent stupid palm pistol thing?
>>64885217For the DB380 and DB9, Diamondback sells the recoil springs and striker assemblies. For a Kel-Tec P32 or P3AT, Kel-Tec sells grips, extractor kits, recoil springs, takedown pins, firing pins + springs, recoil spring catches for 1st gen slides, recoil spring guides in nylon or steel, frame pins, mag catch + spring, triggers, trigger pins, trigger axis, trigger springs, trigger bars, hammer block axis, hammer blocks, hammer block springs, hammer spring pins, hammer springs, hammer spring catches, hammer axis, slide stops, slide stop springs, full hammer+spring assemblies, and extractors. Nearly every part aside from the frame, slide, barrel, and off-the-shelf screws is available from Kel-Tec directly on their website and all of it is dirt cheap.
>>64885231No idea, possibly a print since the only other thing I saw him selling was little plastic parts for other guns.Let me look for the listing
>>64888048https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1143428036Here it is.I was also reminded while rooting around for it that Altor makes a .380 version of their gun now.In case a single round of 9mm is just too much firepower for you
>>64885231It looks like it was SLS Nylon 3D printed, laser sintered from nylon powder.
