>the US army could have just adopted the FAL and been happy like everyone else but no, they HAD to be special and adopt this huge steaming pile of shit of a rifleWhat could have been...
>>64811006First of all the FAL is shit, second of all the M14 isn't nearly as bad as redditors cry about it, thirdly it's thanks to the M14 being a fuckup we got the M16. The FAL is marginally less of an awful gun, marginally enough for the army to say that it's okay to keep around and not push the M16 out the door, retarding arms development for God knows how long
coomer
>>64811021FPBP /thread
>>64811006Would you rather get your cock sucked by M14 or FAL (L1A1)
>>64811047M14
>>64811047G3
>>64811006The M14 was a excellent rifle killed by politics, McNamara wanted to destroy the Army Ordnance Board and didn't care how many GI's it would kill.
>>64811021We could have avoided another fucking disaster in the M16 if they had just scaled the FAL down to 5.56 instead of what Colt grifters sold to the army through corruption.
>>64811083We tried a 5.56 FAL, it was dogshit
Just because you watch Chris "fat retard" Bartocci's disaster of a video, doesn't mean you're informed on the history of the M14.
>>64811083> just scaled the FAL down to 5.56 Guess what! That was tried, and the result was awful.
>>64811128>It's only Chris B. that speaks of the absolutely botched "We just need to slightly retool M1 Garand production for this" attempt>Or the horrific QC issues>Or its less than admirable performance in Vietnam>Or that it was anachronistic from the day it was issued>None of these points have ever been brought up before by anyone
>>64811128You bought a SOCOM and made it your entire personality didn't you
M14 isn't even that bad, it gets maligned in the same way that the L85A2 does. It's not the best compared to its counterparts, but the retarded min-max brain of current year internet discourse then concludes that if its not the best, it must be completely unusable
>>64811148>slightly retool M1 Garand productionnobody believed that past the very early design stages and it was not a deciding factor in the T44/M14 over the T48/FAL. >horrific QC issues there is zero actual evidence of this>less than admirable performance in Vietnam see above>anachronisticsays who? you? >>64811177No way lmao. Every commercial incarnation of the M14/M1A/whatever is a total ripoff. Doesn't make it a bad rifle though.
>>64811199>horrific QC issues>there is zero actual evidence of thisThe DoD halted production of H&R and Winchester M14s because of heat treatment issues with bolts. At Springfield itself, an audit revealed no less 40% of the rifles that had left the production line at that time were unsuited for issue. The only contracted manufacturer that managed to escape was Thompson Ramo Wooldridge, and that was only because they refused any "help" form the others (most notable Springfield" and did everything themselves from the ground up.Please do better.
>>64811006>another poo flinging threadGet a life.
>>64811006Had the US army adopted the M1 garand in its intended chambering, and the m14 had been an evolution of that we would have right now a 7x51 at around 3000fps in modern loadings used in machine, rifleman, and sniper guns and rifles. You know, basically what they are trying to do now. Lol
>>64811021Based, I cant even imagine how absolutely fucked the world would be if we went the FAL route
>>64811199jfc there's a huge surge in this sort of lazy shitposting lately, what gives
>>64811083>FN CALYeah it was shit.
>>64811223>Springfield, H&R, and Winchester suddenly forgot how to heat treat steel after producing more small arms than any other nation in human history between the years of 1936 and 1957>the only firm that "did it right" was the one Robert McNamara had personal connections toIf you actually believe this, I have a fucking bridge to sell you.
>>64811199>zero actual evidenceAsk an actual user of one about bullets hitting the flash hiders. Not one of those 70 year old fat fucks that put 20 rounds through one in boot camp and never saw one again, I mean someone that was actually issued one. Every armory had at least one of these. Most had a few.>and those were the ones that were easy to fix, which are not the problem rifles that are normally discussed today
>>64811251>could've had a m1 with magazine and chambered in 276 Pedersen >US army says LOL NO WE GOT TOO MUCH 30-06 SO RECHAMBER IT IN THAT CALIBER>could've had the fal in 280 British >US says NO WE NEED BIG BOOLET despite German findings of infantry small arms during ww2>still ends up adopting an intermediate caliber>now repeating the same mistakes again with the m7It's all kinds of fucked
>>64811299>Ask an actual userYou mean the American soldier? The dumbest creature that has ever walked this planet? No thanks.
>>64811304Read any documentation on 276 and its clear it sucks. Its not even the best mankiller, 256 was even better. Also 280 might be the most overhyped zoomlore round ever since people want to conflate elements of like 3 different loads into one magic loading that can magically stand toe to toe with 308 in power while having no recoil when in reality it's 7.62x39 but gay
>>64811006M14 hate is largely a backlash of the M14 being a bit overrated. The M14 has objectively better sights, a more familiar manual of arms for troops getting off the M1 (huge) and did perform better in the cold and sand. The M14 is also lighter than the FAL and better balanced. Speaking anecdotally, I prefer the M14 much more, the FAL has better controls in terms of its safety and its easier to rock in a FAL mag. People who mindlessly shit on the M14 (if they've even fired it) are vetbros like this who can't figure out how to use iron sights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U11URice_cM
>>64811295Are you just acting retarded to get engagement?
>>64811295>>Springfield, H&R, and Winchester suddenly forgot how to heat treat steel after producing more small arms than any other nation in human history between the years of 1936 and 1957Correct
>>64811325>M14 hate is largely a backlash of the M14 being a bit overrated.A lot of the hate usually comes from armchair warriors and retards like Ian McImakeeveryrifleexpensive. In my opinion the FAL=G3=M14 with each rifle having it's strengths and weaknesses. The FAL has aboslute dog shit sights on it, what the fuck is this popiscle stick thing. And this is coming from a dude with 3 FAL variants. Another thing I think is big for the M14 was the optic options and mounts. The M14 had a solid mounting system compare to SLR and Trilux or the G3 and claw thing (Which I have both and both suck ass very much.).
>>64811295>the only firm that "did it right" was the one Robert McNamara had personal connections toAlso correct.
>>64811445
>>64811437>In my opinion the FAL=G3=M14Exactly. They're all just fine. Its weird seeing the Xbox vs PlayStation argument come to battle rifles from the mid 20th century. I also used to be a big FAL guy and built 3 metric rifles from parts before just setting with an L1A1 (I prefer the stock contour). I will say with the PTRs I had, I had a pretty good impression with the claw mount. I wish I had a trilux for mine. Nice battle rifles btw we are men of similar tastes. Here's my A1 clone.
>>64811451>I also used to be a big FAL guy and built 3 metric rifles from parts before just setting with an L1A1 (I prefer the stock contour).I really want L1A1 variant especially Aussie. Also>I wish I had a trilux for mine.My last FAL I picked up has one, honestly they hot garbage, little to no adjustment, poi shift, clunky as fuck to take off and put on, etc. That said they do look cool with hazard sign symbols like the Zraks had.
Is that what Ian McCollum told you to think?Ever notice user feedback on the M14 was overwhelmingly positive? While armchair generals who haven't shot one talk about what a "steaming pile of shit" it was
This thread really makes me wish we had poster IDs, feels like there's just one faggot trying to stir shit
>>64811685>feels like there's just one faggot trying to stir shitGetting people mad is the only power in life they have.
>>64811685This thread is basically engagement slop, bot-driven low-quality crap shoveled out onto the front page.
>>64811295>Remington suddenly forgot how to manufacture decent ammunition and firearms despite being in the business for over a century.If you actually believe this, I have a fucking bridge to sell you.
>>64811322The powder volume ans the long bullet on the .280 left it with growth space all the way up until some pretty incredible loadings that ww could easily make today. Just because the Brits were incapable of developing a good loading doesn't mean the cartridge dimensions themselves weren't absolutely sublime.
>>64811317Yeah, we should trust fat retards on the internet that defend the M14 with zero evidence instead
>>64811322>7.62x39>not gay and retarded
>>64811047Plot twistOnly Beretta 92 wants to
>>64811006cause lol fuck yurop, fuck foreign gunsalso we would have had to switch eventually anyway. the G3 is the only one of those cold war rifles that isn't like 6 moa and can take a red dot fine
>>64811083the AR-15 is a better design than the FAL. rotating bolts are better, you can mount optics better because no dust cover and the sights are both on the upper instead of the weirdo FAL shit
>>64811251logistics are more important than your 7mm round
>>64811304armies don't want to maintain 2 calibers
>>64811139Nothing about the CAL is similar to the FAL.
>>64811325aren't they the same irons as the m1? how would they be confusing?>>64811702so basically every no gunz yuro thread that's not about privately owned small arms?
>>64811006M14 was/is a gun that inspires a lot of nostalgia and machismo aesthetically.When you actually get to shooting it, though, it is kind of underwhelming and outdated. The FAL is barely any more modern if it weren't for the pistol grip, so I guess the G3 is probably the "best" between the 3 if you have to choose. Probably the main reason it's the only one still actually in use by a few non-thirdies. The JAE stock is still the best looking nu-stock for the M14. The EBR chassis was gay then and still is now.
>>64811199https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL-dLeWvbss
>>64811006The funniest shit about it is the Italians building a better battle rifle version of the Garand
>>64812148>still actually in use by a few non-thirdies.only thirdies use the G3
>>64811021>thirdly it's thanks to the M14 being a fuckup we got the M16We literally had the AR-15 in the 50s
>>64811325kek, this fucking retard was like frame holding the sights at 200 yards instead of 6 o'clock holding
>>64811006At the time of the m14's adoption the FAL was still pretty shit. It was only after the adoption did the fal actually start getting better. If anything the rifle program made the fal better by getting rid of the shitty round it used before switching to .308
>What could have been...
>>64811884Well yeah 7.62x39 is gay and retarded while 280 is a double helping of gay and 308 is a triple helping of retard with a side of based
>>64812089You cannot even disassemble an AR-15 if the bolt gets stuck. I've seen this happen multiple times even on the shooting range with clean guns.Shit design, got countless men killed.
>>64812626Ok retard
>>64811325I like your pic
>>64811006so many troops would've been killed by gas adjustment fuckery if the US adopted the FAL, and I'm talking user error alone
>>64812626I've never seen that happen and judging by your post time you are a yuro thirdy no gunz who has never seen it happen
>>64813473I doubt that. yuros/bongs are way dumber than Americans and that didn't happen to them
>>64811006>>64811021Just a reminder, the Harvey T25 was the "winner" til it fell on it's face and Ordnance was forced to fall back on the T44 (M14 prototype).The "tests" were never meant to be unbiased or fair, they were just meant to ensure that the Ordnance board deciding the whats, wheres and whos of small arms development, remained firmly in their control.
>>64812107The FAL? Not really, besides it being a peep sight. The FAL irons cannot be adjusted for windage without unscrewing the whole rear sight assembly and pushing it left or right. Theres no tick marks/measurable adjustments. Also they're on a separate receiver assemblies (upper and lower), which isn't great for accuracy. >>64812334Yeah its really mind boggling how they could be so wrong and choose to upload it. >>64813430Ty, I love my battle rifles, and I need to get a PTR to complete the trio>>64813473The FAL gas isn't hard to tune. Get it to where it cycles reliably and engages the bolt hold open (assuming its not an L1A1 which omits this) and give it a bump of one more gas tic. Thats a take like Ian/Karl's brainlet take that soldiers shouldn't have adjustable sights because they'll fuck with their windage/elevation dials and loose their zero. >>64812626Why would you post lies on the internet, anon?
>>64812626>if the bolt gets stuck.Ever seen a PKM get a FTE with the bolt forward?Yeah, you're ESPECIALLY fucked.That aside, Something tells me that you really have no idea what you're talking about.
>>64812236And it wasn't treated seriously because the military had no use for a baby round. Nothing less than .30 Cal would do for the old heads.
>>64813532>they're on a separate receiver assemblies (upper and lower), which isn't great for accuracy. To clarify for those unfamiliar, the rear sight of the FAL is on the lower, and the front sight is on the upper. Unlike the AR10/15 where the front and rear sights are part of the upper.Having a split upper and lower does not itself contribute to inaccuracy, but having the sights on different mechanical assemblies definitely does not help things.
>>64813532>The FALI meant the M14, but damn, I didn't realize the Fal sights were so ass. and I always seethe about how skinner sights are more annoying to set and adjust than AR sights
>>64813532>Thats a take like Ian/Karl's brainlet take that soldiers shouldn't have adjustable sights because they'll fuck with their windage/elevation dials and loose their zero.a1 sights are better combat sights because the shorter range aperture/the daylight one on the day night sights, has a better zero profile that is basically flat out to 300 yards. granted the A2 isn't that much worse with the zero, but if you try to put the A2 zero on the M4 it's pretty ass and results in you shooting like 7 inches high at some point
>>64813568Yeah, A2 zero on an M4 definitely is wonky. If they justified it by its flat trajectory, that would be fine, but I've met some pretty dumb people in the military, but I don't think anyone uses their sights as a fidget toy as inrange had alleged.
>>64812666>>64813485>>64813532>>64813542Take your AR, pull the bolt back and try to disassemble the gun.You fucking can't unless the bolt is forwards which means that if the bolt gets stuck for any reason there is no way to disassemble the weapon unless you get the bolt unstuck first.A ridiculous design error.
>>64813579They don't get stuck, retard. No one is falling for your made-up bullshit
>>64813579I've literally never had this as an issue, no gunz
>>64811888Who is this cute female girl.
>>64812346>blows up
>>64813579take the front pin out, retard
>>64813579You can't do this with the FAL either retard
>>64813532>The FAL irons cannot be adjusted for windage without unscrewing the whole rear sight assembly and pushing it left or right.You have no idea how to even use a gun you own...The rear sight screws have indents. To move the sight a desired amount you simply loosen one side by a desired number of clicks, and then tighten the other side. This is an excellent and strong windage adjustment system also found on the RK62 front sight.
>>64813749I didn't describe it well by saying pushing it left and right, but its still not measurable (no tic marks) and its inferior to M1 sights.
>>64813590>guns just do not malfunction!!! They do not!
>>64813758>still not measurable (no tic marks)???You measure the deviation of your group from center on the target and look at your zeroing card for what number of clicks results in what windage change at what distance. After you've zeroed your rifle you do not touch it unless you somehow loose your zero. We are talking about combat rifles. You do not adjust windage on the fly or any other ridiculous range shooting bs.
>>64813773>doesn't address the fix kys
>>64813792That's a good point on keeping it mechanically simpler, and I didn't realize that each screw turn produces an audible click, I guess that's something you miss at the range when its loud. I still prefer the M1 sights because you can actually see where your rear aperture is centered on the receiver, and by the fact that you can adjust them without tools.
>>64813792>e are talking about combat rifles. You do not adjust windage on the fly or any other ridiculous range shooting bs.you can on the m16 a2
>>64813820A2 was a mistake. Peak was reached with the A1
>>64811006>t. no guns eurotrash subhuman
>>64811021Hey retard, the M14 was replaced due to the ammunition change, not due to any M14 problems. GTFO retard
>>64812346lmao
>>64813837Yeah, if you read his speech pattern, he's definitely noguns ESL. I wish we had flags so we know immediately who to blatantly ignore
>>64813853A normal barrel would have prevented that entirely
>>64813773Not in the retarded way you're making up, you have to be a true noguns retard to think in terms of non-existent theoretics
>>64813856fucking same
>>64813579>Take your AR, pull the bolt back and try to disassemble the gun.Why in the blue fuck are you trying to take the piece apart with the bolt held back?The only way that happens if if the buffer peens, and even then "TILT THE GUN FORWARD" and your problem is solved.FFS some of you noguns are so goddamn stupid.
>>64813749No, he's right, in the L1A1 you loosen one screw and tighten another. It's not bad, just not as good as what the M14 had.
>>64811021>This is what Boomers believe
>>64814293Stg58s didn't use the serrated screws or the Z spring under the rear sight either. Those lowers used to be common on kit builds in the US because they were cheap and overall very nice.
>>64814379Never saw the '58 kits, just dealt with a shit-ton of the L1A1 kits.
>>64813579>Take your AR, pull the bolt back and try to disassemble the gun.Why the fuck would you even do that? What is wrong with you?
>>64814318He is obviously trolling. Also, Boomers love the M14. My dad had the M14 in Vietnam, when in the US Army. Every old boomer Marine I talked to also loved the M14. Boomers love the M14 and hated the M16. The M16 was a piece of shit for the first few decades until the M16A2. See, this is how you know I'm an American, because I tell the truth, unlike dirty Europeans.The US Army has never had a successful roll-out of a main battle rifle.M1903 - manufacturing problemsM1 Graand - design and manufacturing problemsM14 - manufacturing problemsM16 - design problems M7 - everything problems.
>>64815118>until the M16A2https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA168577.pdfArmy trials report on the A2
>>64815181Yep, pretty much. I know I spam the trials report, but you just don't see too many primary sources these days, usually just hack articles.It's 2 posts above this
>>64815118>The M16 was a piece of shit for the first few decades until the M16A2.Absolute midwit response.
>>64815199And yet that's what all the people who were actually there will tell you. Even among civilian shooters, ARs were pretty universally disliked until the early 2000s and didn't become really popular until the early 2010s.
>>64815209What kind of reply is this?>No, objective measure doesn't matter, this nebulous generalization of unverifiable public sentiment that isn't even on topic does!Fuck off.
>>64815212>lists a bunch of subjective opinions>objective measureSure
>>64815196Cool
>>64815209Not him, but trials in the early 80s, using civilian target shooters, the A1 was more accurate. There's nothing been done to the A2 that makes it somehow an inherently better shooter than the A1
>>64815223He and I are going from objective fact, you're the one saying YOU HAD TO BE THERE MAN JUST TRUST ME BRO
>>64811047L85, so I can fuck her fat tits at the same time.
>>64812177Name one first world country that still uses the FAL
>>64813859Should have used one then
>>64815209>what is the AWB of 1994Retard
>>64815268The 50s was the ideal time to be a cowboy in the field of guns, new tech, everything seemed possible. Of course, later AR10s had conventional barrels; but I feel the composite barrel to be an example of the optimism of the time
>>64815279Sometimes you find the wrong answers before you find the right ones, as the saying goes.
>>64815291I can't even imagine how it was in a shop like Stoner's: hand drafting, hand machining (which you don't see anymore, higher ups understanding the machinery they own), all sorts of new materials to fool around with, new coatings, and I imagine the shop smelled like black coffee and filterless cigarette smoke
>>64813859>>64815268They had specs for a normal barrel ready to go but the president of Armalite demanded they use that goofy composite barrel. Stoner and one of the machinists turned one from a blank and installed it over the weekend and testing continued from there.
>>64815353>European countries are third world
>>64813621>>64813853As pointed out >>64813859 >>64815351 >>64815279 that was an anomalous barrel that not only behaved anomalously but predated by two years the rifle picrel in post # 64812346 replied to.(Imagine, consider if ? that two year duration had been utilized by U.S. Army Ordnance and its stellar resources/brain trust to arrive in the vicinity of—or beyond—what Artillerie Inrichtingen achieved for Portugal. Oh wait, that's not at all what they were mucking about with 1957-1959)
>>64811061My guy
>>64815617>>64811061you guys are aware that the creator of Upotte does erodoujins of his pwn series, and a lot of them feature G3 or her expy as a main character, right?https://exhentai.org/tag/artist:tennouji+kitsunejust thought you might like to know.
>>64817234Even better
>>64815617sex with the G3
>>64819494There's clip on cheek risers and stuff like rigging up a sponge, or some sort of padding with non adhesive tape/bandage to offset that, but I prefer more of a chin weld. Anyway, you can look under the claw mount and use the irons which is why its so high.
>>64811006>and adopt this huge steaming pile of shitYou shut your whore mouth and delet this nao!
>>64811304Oh its the .276 pederfile retard.
>>64811021the m14 beat out the ar10
M14 did nothing wrong
>>64822155
>>64811199>>64811295>>64811317Behold: a Redditor>>64811271See above. Just tell them to go back.
>>64822137Because the tests were set up by the same people who made the M14
>>64825081No, because the barrel exploded because armalite insisted on pushing the sleeved barrel forward against all better judgement. There's a lot that went wrong with the M14 trial but the AR10 was not one of them, as it was at that point in time it was not ready for service
>>64825088So? just replace the barrel with a normal steel one. The sleeved barrel is not what made the AR-10 so good and it is something that can be replaced in an hour.Now of course the test makers wouldn't even consider such a possibility and they used the faulty barrel design as their weapon to pummel the AR-10 and to make sure that the M14 won.
>>64813547What about the AR-10?
>>64812171the best garand derivative was made in 1947 by some commie and it's basicley awesome
>>64826842Early Armalite AR-10s still weren't perfect, even with the barrel replaced there were defects in construction and performance [see the cancelled Nicaragua contract where another early gun shit out one of its bolt lugs]. Artillerie-Inrichtingen unfucked the design and production for them, but by then it was too late. FAL and G3 had taken over a big chunk of the market.
>>64811270We'd end up with the M7.
>>64827480M7 is a cannon event
>>64811006should have got the Beretta>mag fed>accurate>reliableside note, the M14 does have a neat self regulating gas system
>>64830005Holy shit I've never heard of this. Do want!
>>64811006M14 is a good gun, just not a good replacement for the M1 Garand.
>>64811021What's wrong with FAL aside from not looking enough like a WW1 antique
>>64831613it always stunk like a money wasting effort, the Garand was a new gun at the start of WW2 and by the end of the war they were already talking about replacing it. sort of like the NGSW from Sig; a big time wasting money laundering exercise to answer a question no one fucking asked.inb4 some filthy sigger seethes at me
>>64811006I hate my M1A
>>6483168130-06 is better than .308 too. the weight and space savings afforded by .308 is offset by the extra range/power of the 30-06. if someone can carry 80 rounds of .308 they're fine to carry 80 rounds of 30-06. even crazier when you realize the average soldier in WW2 was like 5'8" and 150lbs
>>64811006The AKM rapes the M14 and FAL.
It's so weird seeing people online shit on the M-14. None of it matches my own experiences with the platform or matches any of the opinions of multiple generations of combat vets that I have spoken to. It's become sort of a litmus test for me on whether I am talking to an actual firearms expert or a kid repeating online reddit myths or something they saw from another marketing man guntuber trying to sell the latest tactifool crap for their advertisers.
It's so weird seeing people online shit on the FAL. None of it matches my own experiences with the platform or matches any of the opinions of multiple generations of combat vets that I have spoken to. It's become sort of a litmus test for me on whether I am talking to an actual firearms expert or a kid repeating online reddit myths or something they saw from another marketing man guntuber trying to sell the latest tactifool crap for their advertisers.
>>64831742Yeah the FAL is a good tool for the job, most firearms platforms are, otherwise they wouldn't have been adopted by some of the most powerful militaries en masse. Unlike what some over opinionated autismo dipshits behind a computer think.
My M14 is a good shooter.
>>64831687military ball .308 and .30-06 are loaded to the same specs. military .30-06 is very anti spicy
>>64811083>Most popular rifle in the west>GriftAre you legitimately retarded, anon?
>>64833861>nobody outside of US army and the absolute closest US vassals adopts it>most popular rifle in the west
>>64811006If nothing else, it's funny how the FG42 pattern was the only actual example of a working select-fire battle rifle.
>>64813579I had this happen before. Ammo issue, freedom munitions fucked me with the no powder -> double powder meme and it sent the bcg back so hard it somehow broke the buffer spring retaining pin which wedged between the carrier and receiver. It's not that big a deal to fix though, just take the buffer tube off and pry the carrier out the back.
>>64813579Happened to me, you can just punch the front pin out and jimmy the upper and lower apart
>>64834267It's the most commonly manufactured 5.56 rifle in the world and is in use in 80 countries. You're literally retarded.
>>64834636Literally only because US civilian market inertia which is because of lenient firearm laws compared to the rest of the world.Otherwise, the design is inherently mediocre.
>>64834664>Most versatile, cheap, and durable design to come out of the west>So accurate that when we used them in Somalia we got so many headshots they thought we were executing them>MediocreRetarded
>>64833585no it isn't
>>64834828>Most versatileBecause of the immense aftermarket.>cheapBecause of the immense scale of the market.>durableIt's average, with the bolt specifically being a weak point.>So accurate that when we used them in Somalia we got so many headshots they thought we were executing themFuddlore. Accuracy matched by any other modern design.
>>64833585Your LRB M14 will never fail to make me jealous, it's a beauty of a rifle.
>>64834664>is in use in 80 countriesThose countries have choices, they chose AR and AR style rifles. You have nothing but excuses because deep down your hatred of the US is unfounded
