No name companies unable to make Soviet weapons after talking a big game is a tale as old as time.
Its not soviet guns, its stamped guns in general. The FG42 and MP44 have both killed multiple startups attempting to repro them.
>>64823086People forget that the Soviet Union struggled to make stamped AKs, even with all the stolen german machine parks and slaves.Would be cheaper to just order hand-fitted parts from Khyber pass workshops, really.
>>64823086>AK's are primitive junk!>american "manufacturing" can't build itAll American "manufacturing" is nowadays is hitting keys on a computer (made in China) on set up machines (made in China) with premade materials (from China) with workers from India and South America.
>>64823086Those BSD guys are insanely butthurt over the Roswell rifle.
Is it not possible to replicate every lathe cutting process with modern automated machine tools?Or is it a matter of machining costs?
>>64826023You don't know what the cutting process was, hell even with hands-on time with a real one and a bunch of callipers and micrometres, you aren't necessarily going to get everything right. This isn't unique to the VSS/SR3, a lot of civilian ARs aren't entirely in spec with M4s because they were reverse engineered rather than using Colts TDP. Not to say that it cant be done, but how much failure can you afford before you have to charge 6k per rifle to break even?
i think some other company at shot show is just one upping them by skipping the multi million dollar stamping equipment and just milling the stupid fucking dust coverscosts more sure but stamping is gonna go NOWHERE
>>648232491 yuan has been deposited into your account.
>>64826333People really do make this shit harder on themselves for no reason. Just make the VSSM, its fully milled and appeals to both VSS purists and modern larpers who want a top rail and light mount, and once you have a baseline for people to people to take measurements off of, the aftermarket will inevitably produce stamped dust covers and wooden furniture to suit those who want them.
BSD did almost nothing. Their demos were kit builds and rewelds of blank guns, they've accomplished essentially nothing before or since then. The aluminum receivers are a joke
>>64823098Or maybe the quality of all those guns have always been below acceptable modern standards (and they were only being used because that was all they had)? Just asking.
>>64823098>Its not soviet guns, its stamped guns in general.Stamping is hard because it usually requires multiple steps, so you need big, expensive tooling.On top of that the condition you get your material (sheet metal rolls) in is very important. A little bit more or less tension or work hardening in the material, and your 60° bend turns into a 58° bend, and you have to re-work your big expensive tooling.To produce stamped parts, you want a very consistent material supplier who understands exactly what you need and tries hard to deliver it.The problem is, that only happens if you are a car manufacturer and buy shit tons of material. A gun company buys so little material that they will struggle to find a suppler that cares about their business at all, especially if it is a repo start-up and not H&K making 12 million G3 rifles to arm an entire continent.
>>64826023>Is it not possible to replicate every lathe cutting process with modern automated machine tools?It absolutely is, the problem is tolerance stacking.Let's say you drill a hole, and the hole is 6mm. Now you want to put a rod in that hole, and the rod is 6mm. It won't fit unless you have a hammer. So you make the hole 6.05mm and the rod 6mm because buying 6mm rod is easy and buying a 6.05mm drill bit is easy.But oh woops your drill bit wears out a bit and now drills 6.04 and woops your rod supplier supplies you rod that is 6 +/-0.05mm and woops now you are trying to fit a 6.05mm rod into a 6.04mm hole.So you need to work out a tolerance window for each dimension, and that needs to work with the counterpart's window. Now stack multiple parts on top of each other in an assembly, and suddenly you get big tolerance stacks.The original engineers worked this out when they designed the gun, and put the tolerance windows on each dimension, but you don't have these drawings.You only have parts from 3-4 worn out guns you measured. And then you made an educated guess about the tolerance window.And a couple dozen of these guesses were wrong and you now get to debug that mess.Has nothing to do with the manufacturing, this is a engineering problem.
>>64823086>it's hard to make a gun that had an entire government backing its funding without an entire government funding it!wow no shit
>>64826451the receivers being intricate stampings and having short parts life is entirely unrelated. thin receivers may have played a role in parts wear, but that would make them easier to reproduce, not harder. and the people who want a "real" stg44 dont care if the gun only lasts 5k rounds, only that its authentic. >acceptable modern standardsi dont even know what you mean by this, IO AKs were sold for decades and they varied from non-functional to actively dangerous to the user.
>>64826094If you are entirely clueless about something, you can also shut up and not make a post filled with so much random made up word salad that it gives me a headache>>64826451>Or maybe the quality of all those guns have always been below acceptable modern standards (and they were only being used because that was all they had)? Just asking.Headspacing on the STGW44 was fucking wild. But you could subtly tweak that. Reduce the tolerance windows on the parts, still to the lead for the optics but have steel on steel contact inside anyways which headspaces correctly.The problem is that these companies who are trying to build a replica aren't gun companies. They do not understand how a gun works, they can't even do a proper FEM study, a modal analysis, a timing analysis, nothing.They are clowns with a cheap shitty HAAS cnc in the garage, thinking they're getting into a bit of machining, instead they end up in the deep end of hardcore gun design which requires at least one GOOD engineer who actually knows what he is doing.Those are rare, and the ones who are experienced with gun manufacture are being lured out of the oldschool traditional gun companies like H&K by rich guys in dubai to make them guns, so you can't afford them.
>>64826476its not word salad, its just less verbose than your sperg bullshit. this isn't a college essay, you don't have a minimum word count nigger.
This fucking thread showed up in my Google news as a article WTF, since when does Google scrape from here?
>>64826503kill yourself
>>64826778since forever, i dont think 4chan's robots.txt ever disallowed google or any other crawlerit only disallows indexing urls related to the moderation interface on the boards subdomain
He seems perturbed
>>64823086The funniest part of this whole thing was the Florida crackhead claiming he found glaring problems with the design the Soviets overlooked and that's why his guns hacked together from cut up blank firing parts kits and grabcad files didn't work.
>>64823098This, stamping is very expensive to setup and you will get bad stamping until you refine and tune everything.It was used because after it's setup its the cheapest way to do millions of guns.
>>64826778If this is a real screenshot, my guess is probably because "No name companies unable to make Soviet weapons" sounds a lot like a headline to an AI or algorithm. >>64828614>>64828618Upsetti spaghetti. How do people have such little self-control in these situations.
>>64823086What is that long piece screwed into the side of the bolt carrier supposed to do?
>>64823086It’s okay I hired a world class ammo expert (picrel) and set up a factory and we’ve already got nagant ammo coming off the presses We totally have America’s needs covered I just need another thousand presses and trained catsAnyone want to front us the money?
>>64829490Looks like a spring. There's a dimple on the side of the bolt it probably detents into. Some sort of anti pre-rotation feature that he had to add in since the head of the cam pin has been machined off
>>64823249The reality is that AK's require factory cities to have the space to actually build all these parts properly and they were heavily state subsidized. The cost of an AK rivaled M16s, its actually a more labor intensive process. Everyone including China is moving away from such designs for a reason.
>>64829499Your cat is a walking lead exposure vector.
the final redpill are bespoke hand-fitted one off repros that cost $10.000 and take an autist 5 years to build
>>64823245Stamping sounds easy but it really isn't. The metal always springs back in ways that are very difficult to predict, so what the tooling actually produces is always a little different from what the tooling looks like it should produce.
most soviet arms made were from national arsenals, backed up by big government money and government willpower. So your regular private businesses is going to eat shit if they can't stomach the financial and troubleshooting big national governments will power through in order for their national security.
>>64830223Are you telling me there are people who don't understand why you have to bend a paperclip more than the actual angle you need to set that angle, and these people try to start machine shops?
>>64830442The hard part is working out exactly how much more you need to bend it.
>>64823245>>64830223And even beyond that, it just isn't economically viable. Getting the right geometry into the gauges of metal necessary requires serious heavy industry shit, big stamping presses and so on that just aren't practical on the scale of the US civilian gun market. People have this idea that AKs are dirt cheap and easy to make but that's only true if you're churning out millions of them to amortize the equipment and tooling costs.
>>64830442>>64830482No the hard part is that "how much do you need to bend it" changes from batch to batch of the sheet metal rolls you buy from your supplier, and you got to work hard with your supplier to minimize that.see if you bend in 1 direction only, and maybe bend on a CNC controlled bend press, you can adjust your bend. These machines actually do that automatically. You ask for 60°, the machine underbends slightly, measures the exact angle, and then re-bends 2-3 more times until it is literally perfect.The problem? This is slow, expensive, and can only do bends one at a time, it can't do complex multi-bend and deep-draw operations.To make more complex stamped parts, you need a multi-stage tool, sometimes with annealing steps inbetween, and the tool does dozens or even hundreds of individual bend operations in one big motion. Fast, efficient, cost effective.The problem? The angles are baked-in to the tool. Dialed in to one specific material condition. If your next batch of material is different, your multi-million dollar tool is now useless, and it takes years to make and dial in such tooling.
>>64830501This is youhttps://youtu.be/noQXojwExRA
>>64823086I have said for a few years now that American AK makers should just make milled AKs. It is far more suited to American manufacturing than stamped AKs.
>>64830524This is you.
>>64830190His cat isn't the only pussy itt.
>>64830530>American AK makers should just make milled AKDescribes the Arsenal Bulgaria I've had for decades now. Nothing wrong with my AK.
>>64823249>on set up machines (made in China)Never in my years in manufacturing have I seen Chinese machinery. The printing presses, Heidelberg, out of Germany. Swiss made CNCs. Japanese made roto-molds. Ect.We cut a lot more corners than we used to, but you have zero fucking clue what you're talking about
>>64826778Looks like someone needs to turn off some permissions, that's wild
>>64829499I have a cat to offer you, she's old, fat, and pees on the carpet, otherwise a complete joy. I'm getting sick of her to be honest with you
These threads are always proof that we need a form of the draft, except it's all men having to work in manufacturing at LEAST once. The amount of people who always filter in who think you can change everything on a production line at the snap of the fingers is insane, along with the ever present "why didn't they just..." which highlights their proud ignorance.>even Khyber pass inbred Muslims can reverse engineer an AK!And they work exactly as you'd imagine. The AK is very simple, but making one, from a manufacturing perspective, is a massive undertaking
>>64830558Dont come crying to us when your cat starts having problems because its dumbass owner put pride in front of intelligence. Cats lick themselves clean and ingest lead from residues left on their fur and theyre extra sensitive due to their size.
It's not a matter of technical ability, it's a matter of ecnonmic viability.>try to do a perfect 1:1 cloneProduct is now 10k+$ and no one is willing to pay that kind of money for something that's not an original and has no historical value>Compromise and simplify a few things to make it a "good enough" cloneProduct has now zero interests from collectors because it's not an exact copy and is still too expensive for enthousiasts who are not willing to pay 3k+$ for something that is massively outperformed by modern production guns of similar prices
>>64830692>>64830558They can get sick. I had an area of my carpet shampooed, cats being cats, she walked through it.Luckily it just gave her a gut ache and some puking rather than something worse.
>>64830530>American AK makers should just make milled AKsWe can, the only problem is all the allowable tolerances for each and every part needs to be established, AND somehow coordinate with competitors to have the same tolerances so that aftermarket parts will fit.Because if company A made an AK that wasn't interchangeable with company B AKs, the American consumer would shit himself
>>64830725The soviet AK engineering drawings are not secret.You can even find them for free on the internet if you try hard enough.
>>64830530I unironically want a type 2 AK for some incomprehensible reason.
>>64830676>we need a form of the draft, except it's all men having to work in manufacturing at LEAST onceI don't know about everybody, but they damn well ought to make engineers and anybody else in a manufacturing-adjacent field do it. It's bad enough that they had to come up with an entire degree just for people who can take engineers' bullshit and turn it into something that's actually manufacturable. (Engineering Tech, which is very popular with people who want to move up off the factory floor, and something I'm considering myself if I can scrape enough credit toward it out of my community college AAS.)
>>64830781I kinda get it, they're just different enough from the familiar AKM to have an interesting uncanny valley vibe about them.
>>64830553>disabled but still paid enough to be fat>can afford to be comically, horribly fat>the chair is free>proud of my country God bless youNot sure what you're trying to communicate here.
>>64830756Whats your experience in metal manufacturing?
>>64830725Don't bother with old AK specs. Make new ones you know. Just make a milled AK that is 'American' in pattern in terms of dimensions.
>>64831475I already said new tolerances would have to be established. You don't have to repeat me to myself
>>64830756Does this include material and heat treat specs?
Why not just make an AK with AR manufacturing techniques to make it cheaper for the 21st century. Russia was already experimenting with this but didnt go forward with it. Male a 2 piece aluminum reciever with a long stroke piston gas system, use 5.56 AK mags, give it some AK shape and you have an American AK thats decent.
>>64831483Honestly you probably CAN find all of that stuff, since the Soviets helped set up manufacturing in so many client states, and there may even be official stuff in English since I think they were built in a few post-colonial countries where English was the lingua franca, but nothing is going to be directly compatible with modern American manufacturing equipment, material grades, etc.
>>64831498>AK>aluminum receiver
>>64830501Just get a good supplier dumbass what is this ea nasirs metals
>be (Me), a dumbass>stamped guns? I guess they mean like tax stamps?>think this for years>read this threadthanks bros, I learned something today
>>64831734I grew up noguns and for years I thought "gas operated" meant the gun had some kind of weird little engine or something that ran the mechanism, not helped by the fact that pistons were often involved. It wasn't until I started watching guys like Ian who broke down mechanisms and explained how they worked that I actually understood what it meant.
>>64831707See this outs you as an idiot who knows nothing.You cannot get a good supplier.The good supplier has an agreement with fucking ford buying 9001 tons a day in steel, they do not care about you wanting to buy 1 roll of steel every 4 months for your tiny little rifle with some specific requirements only you have.They dial in their manufacturing for the specs ford wants, and don't touch it.You can MAYBE if you are lucky get a roll of the same shit ford gets, and that's it.Don't like it? Fuck off.t. has actually bought materials for projects
>>64831498that's just the PSA VUKthe idea isn't without merit but when you're paying for a vaguely AK-shaped rifle and shooting 5.56 you have to wonder what you're even doing at that pointyou don't get to do a Russian/Soviet LARP, you don't get to be Strelok wandering around abandoned industrial sites, you don't get to blast cheap 7n6 during the 11 cpr days, etc you're just paying to shoot 5.56 out of a "not-AR" and giving up all advantages of the AR platform while getting none of the positives of getting an AK.
>>64831479Sorry, didn't read your whole message. I read the first few words of peoples posts. Time saving measure since it's fucking 4chan and who the fuck cares.
>>64832012Have you considered just going back to twitter?
>>64832012Kill yourself
