What does /k think about pcp airguns for defense purposes? In my country its quite a long hassle to (legally) aquire firearms. However, we have access to pcp airguns with no powerlimit.I am thinking about getting a Huben GK1 shorty. I've read that they hit about as hard as a subsonic .22. I've seen videos of them being used, after the tank has been filled and unused for 14 months, so thats not a problem.Or maybe a Bintac T9. I've read claims that they hit as hard as a .45acp. Also plenty of cusomization options.
Bintac T9 tested on a ballistic dummy:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xreV_WJBpEHuben GK1 shorty and full version tested on a ballistic dummy:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icuo-GcVfu0Airguns are becoming more powerful in smaller packages. Maybe even an alternative to US citizens who cant get firearms.
Enjoy getting raped to death by the courts for daring to defend yourself against a poor, helpless migrant (who was trying to behead you for a napkin doodle that might have been offensive to his pagan death cult).
>>64853289I love PCP airguns, and they are getting a lot better, but they're still not a very good defensive weapon. The ones that are repeaters with a significant number of shots tend to be quite weak, like 22 short territory. There are ones that are more powerful, but those which are around 9mm or .45 ACP levels of power are single-shot manually loaded, and have very few shots at that power level even with a huge tank. There are a few that have better power while still being a repeater, the Leshiy2 is a good example, but those are not cheap.
Bad for defense. If you want for home defense, get a crossbow or sword and gladius. For the streets, get a katana or just a big stick if blades are illegal (pussy countries).
>>64853386that's the neat thing about home defence. you don't have to call the police
>>64854670For 40 years I had a swine operation."No I haven't seen a Rapo or Pedo around here in years, Trooper!"
>>64853289Where you live how do they feel about Muzzle Loading Replica revolvers? I took those down a couple steps in size and up three steps in power and accuracy. I love posting pics of the them but y'all might be sick of seeing them already...
>>64853289>they hit about as hard as a subsonic .22Not quite, but close enough I suppose. However, it would be irresponsible to recommend .22 subsonic for defense.>>64853289>I've read claims that they hit as hard as a .45acpThose claims are absolute bullshit and were made by shills and/or retards. Let's math this one out.>bintac 9mm 82 grain bullet @ 740 fps = 100 ft-lbs energy>basic bitch practice ammo .45 acp 230 grain bullet @ 835 fps = 356 ft-lbs energy45 ACP is 3.5x more powerful and leaves a bigger hole. They're not even in the same category.
>>64854798Post em again
>>64853440I love PCP and guns too
>>64853289>pcp airgunsDoesn't pcp make people more violent? I've never tried it myself
>>64853289I'm gonna echo this guy >>64854583 to an extent.If you can't get a real gun, it's probably not worth a fake one. Swords are amazingly effective weapons in close quarters, but require a lot of training to safely use. Spears (appropriately lengthed for your dwelling) are great. You stick 'em with the pointy end and they've killed more in violent encounters than any other weapon.
>>64854583>>64860506A 22lr is massively superior to a fucking knife.
>>64863937That's what I was thinking. Look at the video's posted here: >>64853308How on earth is that not powerful enough for self denfense compared to a knife? It cleanly shoots through a skull.
I was honestly going to ask advice on this topic too. I recently ordered an Umarex .68 cal 16 joule revolver. I pick up a lot of trash around the city in my spare time but recently stray dogs and feral homeless have become a problem. I am constantly worried about getting attacked by animals or people or having someone try to steal my cart if I step away. I don't want to actually kill anyone so I decided on an airgun as an alternative. I used to use my shovel for self defense and but I that's not as viable anymore. Any recommendations also as how to not get killed by police if I have it? I'm not anywhere generally where there are police but sometimes I have to call them
>>64860506>Spears (appropriately lengthed for your dwelling) are great.Spears are literally the worst indoor weapons possible, which is why every fighting force in history that had to fight in super cramped quarters favored short broad bladed weapons, including literal spearmen who had to fight in those conditions.
>>64866262t. inbred numbskull who has never heard of a boarding pike
>>64865973Those are a dumb choice for self defense IMHO. They are quite literally a paintball gun, nowhere near as effective as the higher powered airguns being discussed here. However, it also looks like a revolver, which is asking for trouble if you have to deal with cops or druggies. Can you carry pepper spray? That's not only more effective than that kind of airgun, it's also a lot less likely to be mistaken for a real gun.
>>64865973>>64866517I dont think those are a good choice. 16 joule on a .68 is bad. Maybe check out the Pistelle X-68. It shoots about 50J. Even then, i'd rather get a Huben GK1 if real forearms arent an option. But the Huben has a hefty pricetag.
>>64866517I usually carry pepper spray but it isn't as effective sometimes when I'd rather not have junkies get that close. They tend to throw things from afar and sometimes spray blows back on me. I usually only have the cops intervene if it's for a crime I'm witnessing but if I manage each encounter without needing them I don't call them. Most launchers I found had the misfortune of looking like real guns and the ones that didn't are much too expensive. I'm going to paint and print as much as I can to make it look a bit more nerfed.>>64866767I didn't want to do anything above 25 joules because I really don't want to hurt anyone too badly and I live in a desert city so people dress thin. I will look into some of your suggestions nerves. I recently bought a hand cart to help me pick up trash and it nearly ruined me though so my options are limited.
>>64866517>>64866767Also I am taking into consideration I may have made a stupid decision, thank you two.
>>64866957Based rustlerI wish I could just mail out one of my saturday night special that I keep in a show box so that you could defend your trash cart
>>64868318>show boxI meant shoe box
>>64853440This is basically why they were abandoned militarily too. In the late 1700s the Girandoni rifle was a repeater that could deliver about 10 shots equivalent to .45ACP before changing bottles, and the shooter usually had a couple of spare bottles. Because it was quieter, accurate and fast shooting without making any smoke it found a niche os sorts, but it already had really low power even for the time.In the late 1800s pic related worked on liquified CO2 and the inventor was trying to sell a cannon to the French army. As he finished developing it smokeless powder was invented and the power difference was absurd, so he only ever sold gas guns to civilians marketing it's superior accuracy.
>>64853289>airgun for defense purposesHow long can you store it in a ready state? Months, years? Airguns are usually not stored pressurized.
>>64853289You'd be better off with a crossbow.
I like the Six Needler.Very little blunt force, but stapling those needles into people's flesh will discourage some of 'em. Legal almost everywhere AFAIK, and costs very little.
>>64866957>I usually carry pepper spray but it isn't as effectiveAre you buying good stuff and making sure it's fresh? There's an awful lot of bullshit in the self-defense spray market.
>>64868346>In the late 1700s the Girandoni rifle was a repeater that could deliver about 10 shots equivalent to .45ACPThe Girandoni was not that powerful. It was an un-regulated airgun that operated at lower pressures than modern PCPs. A modern Airforce Texan can't make 10 shots of .45 ACP equivalent power, even hooked up to a scuba tank that is both much bigger and much higher pressure than the Girandoni reservoir. People tend to exaggerate the power of the Giarnadoni because the are combining two facts in their head: that it was .45 caliber, and that it had a lot of shots. Yes, it was .45 cal but it didn't have anywhere near the muzzle velocity of a .45 ACP. And while it did have multiple shots, it didn't have a regulator so the power would drop off rapidly with each shot. >In the late 1800s pic related worked on liquified CO2CO2 guns tend to be limited to low power because of physics. When you compress CO2 it turns to liquid around 900-1000 psi--the exact point depends on the temperature. You can never get the pressure higher than that, which really limits your power. Also when the liquid CO2 turns to gas it sucks in a lot of heat which can also limit performance. An "air" gun is much better because you can pressurize air to a few thousand psi and it still won't liquefy.
>>64853289They would do more damage if you tied a string around the grip and used it as a blunt weapon
>>64868487>Legal almost everywhereExcept in it's own country of origin. Some justice fags instantly put the Six Needler on a blacklist after Jorge tested it on soft body armor, because they quickly realized that muslims will use it against cops, but since they can't say this thing out loud because it's a cucked nanny state, they just made up some bullshit excuse to preemptively ban it. Jorge specifically designed it to be 100% compatible with German gun laws, but they still try to ban it, because they know that their sub 80 IQ muslim population will use it for all sorts of nasty things.
>>64868365Storing them filled is better for the sealrings. I saw a video of a guy shooting the huben gk1 on a tank that was filled 14 months earlier. Shot on par with a .22
>>64868631I doubt they did it because muzzies. commies just hate the idea of native germans being able to defend themselves.
>>64853289as an unironic air rifle enjoyer, don't do it. terminal ballistics of .22LR leave things to be desired. you are firing a bullet half the size (.22 pellet) OR SMALLER (.177) at around half the muzzle velocity, out of a fucking pistol.even if you want to get a ridiculous .357 pcp meant for hunting hogs, great, now you have a rifle that weighs more than two AR-15s even before being charged and you have maybe up to eight shots in what is basically a revolving rifle>>64865973for pest animals air guns are kinda ok because pest animals really dont like getting shot even by nerf darts let alone high power airguns, but you arent gonna get respectable energy out of a co2 cart and even a sober hobo will get shot with it, realize there isnt a hole in him, and charge you
>>64869661Airguns are fantastic for pest animals. That's because they present minimal danger if they overpenetrate or you miss, they can legally be used inside city limits where real guns may not be allowed, and you can make up for the low power by taking your time to carefully aim. If you get jumped by a junkie you can't guarantee shot placement. But if you're dealing with a raccoon fucking with your chickens you can carefully brain the fucker.
>>64869742Also very true and I honestly have nothing more to add. I just like your post.
>>64868318>>64868328That is a nice collection of shoebox guns but like I said I'm not really trying to hurt anyone for real, just disincentivize. This is going to sound retarded but I have an alter ego where I put on a blue and white jumpsuit, a utility belt and I take my cart out and I pick up trash, pull weeds or patch fucked up sidewalks. The bums don't much like me because I clear out their trash and call the cops on them for drug use. Every time I get stuck by a used needle or have to shovel buckets of feminine hygiene products from bushes next to the library my mind breaks a little. I shouldn't have a real gun on me when I'm out and about. Sorry. I don't much get to talk about this even though I'm proud of all the trash I pick up and the junkies I chase off.
>>64869812Thanks batman
>>64869400No, it was put on a ban list 100% because recent muslim terrorist attacks.. Commies have been in charge of Germany for a while now, but they never gave a shit about airguns, however ever since they started to import millions of low IQ muslims who regularly go on killing sprees using all sorts of improvised weapons, they've got scared shitless of a gun capable of piercing standard issue soft body armor.Again, they can't say the quiet part out loud, because that's be an admission that their immigration policies have completely failed, but they also know how dangerous these 'New Germans' are, so they just banned the Six Needler an a preemptive measure. Given, Jorge himself fucked up by making a video about penetrating body armor, I know it was just his autism acting up, but despite him being apolitical on YT, he's very much aware of the muslim problem so he should have known that posting such content would put him on the government's radar, it's like posting a video of installing switches on Glocks while smoking meth.
>>64854583Crossbow beats an airgun for a HD scenario especially in a narrow hallway. Downside is ofc the single shot and that you can't keep it drawn overnight so it's only useful if you wake up or are awake before someone enters, not if you get surprised with little chance to react. For a melee weapon don't get a sword or spear, they take too much training to use effectively. A club or baseball bat as a backup will do better. If it has to be a blade, get a machete. In Europe it's unlikely the intruder will be armed so you might get away fine with this loadout. The pro of a machete or bat is also that you can easily explain their use in a self defense case - they're tools you use recreationally for sports or gardening unlike a sword or spear.
>>64865973>I used to use my shovel for self defense
>>64853289>What does /k think about pcp airguns for defense purposes?I think it's incredibly ineffective and a great way to get fucked by the legal system of whatever shit country you are part of that doesn't allow carrying of actual guns (don't worry, I'm in the same boat). Get pepper spray or a pepper ball gun if it just has to be gun shaped (and is legal) and some good running shoes. Otherwise a good torch and running shoes.>>64871648>In Europe it's unlikely the intruder will be armed so you might get away fine with this loadoutPlease do not believe this meme. You really wouldn't want to get close enough to hit somebody and then find out it is sorely mistaken. Same for the whole machete or bat by the door thing, it's like saying "in minecraft" at the end of your manifesto.If you are in Europe and home intruders are an issue grabbing a kitchen knife (rather than a convoluted meme weapon) is probably enough to make them realize you're not worth it. But you also have to accept that if it doesn't work you're both going to get hurt. But the same thing goes for machetes, clubs and bats.The purpose is not to actually fight, hand to hand fighting is dumb and you should avoid it. The purpose is to convince the other person they're going to get hurt and that softer targets exist elsewhere.
>>64872092Lowest IQ post itt
>>64873016Yet you can't explain why.Is this what neu-/k/ is? a bunch of larping morons talking about little needle dart guns, crossbows and fucking air pistols as if they're a serious means of self defence that won't just piss off whoever is attacking you? At this point lets have an airshit thread where we talk about how 6mm BBs can be used for home defence so we can complete the full transition to clown world.
>>64871648Multiple rounds of 22lr is better for HD than a single shot from a crossbow.
>>64873937I'm inclined to agree about the other stuff but crossbows are still crossbows. they still kill stuff dead like they used to hundreds of years ago, no matter if they've been superseded by more practical and compact arms or not.
>>64869812What's your superhero name? The Janitor?
>>64873937>Crossbow >Just "pissing off" someoneYou should NOT be trusted anywhere near any ranged weapon if you get this wrong about such a basic armament.If you shoot someone with a crossbow they die without direct medical intervention
>>64873937Eh, actually thinking about it, a crossbow/compound bow would probably serve well enough a function of home defense in providing a lethal force that would incite someone to retreat. If you're a felon and can't buy a $250 Maverick 88 (and crossbows are still legal for felons in your state), it'd work.
>>64877756>If you shoot someone with a crossbow they die without direct medical interventionThat depends entirely where you hit them. And even if the wound is ultimately fatal, that doesn't mean it's incapacitating.
Just buy a freaking gun geezI love airguns, I got like $6k worth of airguns but if you actually fear for your life just get a normal Glock 19 or something, go thru the paperwork if you're European.Any airgun that makes decent power comes with massive caveats like being single shot, extremely expensive, unreliable, low shot count, etc. Is it better than nothing? Yes, but far far worse than even the simplest of defensive handguns.
>>64869742I'd had some fun with the rabbits eating my garden and my .25 cal FX Impact M3. The slap of the impact (heh) is so satisfying, I head shot them and the drop in the spot. I usually shoot shoot JSB Hades or FX Hybrid slugs, 26gr at 960fps. I could be getting more power with tuning but why bother, it's extremely accurate as it is.
>>64853289I've been eyeying the taipan slash.Good power, good form factor.
>>6487834812 rounds of up to 220J in semi auto is handgun tier power.IIRC anything over approx 80J is going to be lethal on headshots.See >>64878477All these crossbow retards are fucking stupid. You're going to fire one shot, what if it doesn't instantly incapacitate the junkie? He will just give you his AIDS.
>>64878384Awesome. I have a first-gen FX Impact in .22 and an Ataman M2R in .30. They both love JSB's.You really don't need much power for rabbits. I love this video from Squirrel Hunter on Youtube, making a double thru-and-thru headshot on two rabbits at once, using a UK legal cucked air rifle.https://youtu.be/9ksSjtsIQfY?t=629
Hatsan Blitz, yay or nay for under $1k?
>>64878502>American doesn't understand how good he has it and spergs out pretending everywhere is americaGetting a gun in europe is an enourmous fucking hassle and for self defense they'rr not ever worth the effort.So it comes down to: >Join a gayass sport club with gayass fudd members and WAIT A YEAR>Get a fuckass 22lr >WAIT ANOTHER YEAR FOR 9MM OR LARGER (In some hellish countries)>Or get a hunting license and spend obscene amounts of cash to be part of some elitist jerkfest>In both cases if you ever use your guns to blow someone's head off you better hope he has an actual gun himself, if you kill a gypsy with a knife you go to prisonVS>Buy crossbow (anonymously) for 100eu>Rapefugee gets onto your yard>Shoot undocumented refugee>Hide crossbow
>>64878799Fun plinker. Too low power for life-or-death defense. Feels like how i'd imagine a boomershooter nailgun and probably does similair "damage" to real-life intruders.It gets retards off your car, but only if you're on the balcony
>>64853308Those of us who can't buy regular guns usually go with black powder guns. Lead balls have killed PLENTY of men over the centuries too.
Absolutely not. There is a big difference between lethal and incapacitating. Yes a crossbow or single pistol bullet in the torso is likely to be fatal, but if someone is coming at you, it likely will not stop them for a minute or longer. To drop someone instantly with weapons like that you really need a shot to the brain, and thats a small target, in the dark, and you've only got one shot. I agree a short spear would be better.
>>64865973>>64866957>I don't want to hurt anyone>But I want to go out to dangerous spots because of egoNo. Get something better or start walking around with Mace. ANY Mace would be better than 16 joules.
>>64879498Thats why i have been eyeing the bintac T9 for homedefense. It's small enough. Plenty of accessoiries. It makes about 135 joules. semi auto with an 8-shot magazine. There are custom extended magazines aswell.I think multiple shots of 135 joules to the chest will be plenty of power to go through jackets and still have plenty of penetrative power left.
>>64879413I'm not american.In some european countries you can own PCP guns without power limits.I could build an airgun that fires solid lead beer cans at 900 RPM and it would be legal.Owning firearms is impractical here, not really worth it.>>64880016Everywhere on the internet I read that the T9 is unreliable.It looks great on paper but I don't know if they've solved that yet.Not something I'd want to find out when I actually need it to do its job.
>>64877324Yeah they still kill stuff dead but their triggers suck ass (or at least the pistol crossbows I tried did) and even bullets regularly fail to put people down in a single shot and good luck reloading whilst you're being charged by an angry smackhead.>>64877756I did archery for years, I think I know enough about what arrows can do. Yeah I'm sure they will eventually die without medical help, but probably not before they've rushed you on adrenaline and done their best to fuck you up.You should not be on this board if you're such a huge victim of dunning kruger.If your metric of "good self-defence weapon" is "well they'll die eventually if unaided" then I suppose your perfect EDC is just the passage of time. Light weight, low footprint, no training required and 100% lethal (eventually).>>64879413I'm not American. I'm still going to tell you crossbows are a retarded self-defence weapon.>Hide crossbowWhat as the guy you've shot is bleeding out with a suspiciously crossbow bolt shaped arrow stuck in his body? How well do you think the police will take that?Why are you retards allergic to pepper spray? It's legal virtually everywhere in Europe, although frankly Europe is so low in terms of violent crime that basic de-escalation skills and maybe a heavy metal object are all you need for 99% of situations and the 1% where they aren't you need a gun at which point you are SoL anyway.
>>64880715Yaaawn, what a load of yapCrossbows are gud enough at what they do and who cares about your opinion
>>64880843Enjoy being soaked in AIDS ridden niggerblood then.
>>64880843Actually I've changed my mind, I absolutely recommend that you, but only you, use a crossbow for self defence. I think it is an excellent idea.
>>64879429You're telling me a Blitz in .30 cal shooting 16 rounds in one second down a hallway at a home intruder is not going to stop them? If that won't then a shot gun won't either
>>64866957If you have anything that looks like a gun it'll be handled like its a gun. You might get shot
I just came here to say I fucking love the Huben GK1!I want to own one myself, but I'm too poorI only own cheap pocket pistols but I've worked on two GK1 and they are amazing <3
>>64877324Crossbows fucking suck for HD>Hear bump in the night>get your string cocker out and fumble around with loading your bow because you obviously can't fucking leave a bow cocked 24/7>turns out it was nothing>now you have to shoot your bow to decock itCooking a bow is fiddly during the day, imagine you're doing it in the dark with a burglar in your house.
The way think about it, if it wouldn't stop someone who attacked you with a machete, you are better off getting a machete as well. What are you going to do, plink at some criminals to get them off your lawn? Might as well get a fake gun with blanks, fire off a few blanks then pop one with the air gun so they think they've actually been shot. Summon 50 police cars and a helicopter. Many people get crossbows, catapults, bows, or compressed air weapons with various features, which I am happy to show you
>>64883293>catapultsAre you retarded? Not one person in the past 300 years has used a catapult to defend anything.
>>64881777NTA, but doesn't the .30 cal only hit with something like 50 foot pounds? I thought that'd only end up like bird shot at best
>>64883647The original Blitz gets 53fpe while the newer more expensive Blitz 777 gets up to 59fpe in .30 cal. I would argue that either is going to be lethal especially at close range under 50 yards. Generally speaking if you are shooting intruders in your house they will probably be 5-15 yards away maybe a little more. At that range a Blitz should drop someone dead and even a .22 cal round from a break barrel could theoretically do the same if you manage to shoot them in the head or neck. People like to say home intruders will be on drugs and just beat you up and kill you while fighting through the pain with adrenaline. I think that's bullshit as it is much more likely they are going to run if they even see you with a gun of any sort before you even open fire. With a blitz you have 16 chances to shoot them in the head or somewhere vital or 33 chances if you buy the extended mags. There are videos of it hitting meat targets and such on youtube. Personally I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a blitz. It ain't a toy
>>64868631apparently he's bringing a super low power variant of it to market soon that's legal because it's so weak. I'd almost bet that like with the bigass airguns he sells, there's a cheeky valve screw or something of the sort somewhere on it that you should never ever ever loosen lest it suddenly gain full power >>64883206true. surprises me that decockers aren't a thing on all modern crossbows.pic related is an alternative, and unlike a crossbow can be kept loaded. 160 joules of energy. I'm still fascinated by how it functions>"burst disk" at the back of the pressurized 300bar cartridge is punctured by firing pin>small amount of gas escapes out the back, creating a pressure difference at the front>this causes the valve at the front to be pushed inwards, allowing all the stored the pressure to escape out the front in a fraction of second
>>64853289>What does /k think about pcp airguns for defense purposes?there are several option in handgun and rifle option that if you have issues getting a regular gun but not an air weapon yeah go for it better than no weapon at all when the jiyza collector shows uphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzbe2OhZhZw
>>64853289It's expensive, but I got a seneca double shot that I keep at my in-laws house in california. My wife and I go to visit them a couple times a year, and I feel more comfortable knowing that I have SOMETHING I could protect us with, even if it's not ideal. There are videos out there of people hunting deer using slugs out of them, and I figured if it will kill a doe, then it'll probably kill a human at home defense distances with a decently placed shot. The fact that I've got a followup shot helps as well.>tell your in laws to buy a real gunThey're just not interested. They're not anti-gun in the slightest, they just don't have any desire to be gun people, and taking the test for a ca firearms cert isn't something they want to do. So, whenever we go to visit, a double-barreled air rifle sits in the closet next to the guest room bed my wife and i sleep in.
>>64884043That one also comes with a version that you can load shot in, it looks like
>>64883769I've heard the Blitz gets some reliability issues when handled in any way other than stationary as a target rifle. I haven't heard the same about the Mordax or Sidewinder, but those are more than 2x to 3x as expensive.
