>Stabs trough metal & leatherI really hate how media makes armor look borderline useless, it really is just a cosmetic to them.
>>64865173Hollywood and it's consequences were disaster for popular history study.
>>64865173I formally reject your complaint here.Please forward the hate to the media in question.
>>64865173This was one of the few things that bothered me about portrayal of elves in LOTR. I know they were beatable, but they were clad in best armour and training for 2500 years. Sure, they could be eventually overwhelmed and rushed by sheer numbers due to their size or when fighting maia, like balrogs. But they should withstand a LOT of beating. And same goes for pretty much anyone in armour. I hope one day someone will spare a few extra seconds of screentime to show armoured warriors to withstand some real beating and if needed to succumb to a dirk between the ribs or something like that.
>>64865173I like it when the character is like some mythological hero gigachad, but not when normies do it.I can accept Aragorn impaling guys through their armor because one scene from now he's going to pick up a guy the size and shape of a washing machine and pitch him 30 feet with one hand. It's one thing for Conan to miss with his sword and take a chunk out of a stone wall the size of my foot, then cut through a guy's armor, but this inevitably lead to movies where everyone does it all the time.
>>64866302The Lord of the Rings films at least portrayed Uruk Hai as superhuman, with swords three times as heavy as normal, running for a week on end, that kind of thing.
>>64866305>I can accept Aragorn impaling guys through their armor because one scene from now he's going to pick up a guy the size and shape of a washing machine and pitch him 30 feet with one hand.Aragorn literally looked like a wimp in the movies and didn't really do anything impressive like that. >>64866302>This was one of the few things that bothered me about portrayal of elves in LOTR. I know they were beatable, but they were clad in best armour and training for 2500 years. Sure, they could be eventually overwhelmed and rushed by sheer numbers due to their size or when fighting maia, like balrogs. But they should withstand a LOT of beating.The movies made them look completely retarded, so yeah.>>64865173The idea that a sword like that would go through three layers of armor (brigandine, chainmail, arming jack), all the way through a guy's ribcage, and through three layers of armor on the way back... this is really, really dumb.In reality, nobody's stabbing through a brigandine with that sword.
>>64865182Cool it with the antisemitism
leather armor is such a fucking stupid concept and I wish fantasy media would stop using it, if you need a light armor option use a fucking Gambeson like they did in real life
>>64865173Well, ypu can see how mad the person doing the stabbing is by how wide their mouth is open while they ragescream. And we all know that if you get mad enough you become unstoppable.
>>64866503Was there ever such a thing as leather armor?
>>64866503>Stupid concept>The armor that allowed the Mongolians to conquer EuropeIt's not stupid if it works
>>64866305It’s cool in Conan when Thorgrim hits the big stone pillar with his hammer and it collapses.
>>64866554>>64866566“Leather armor” generally had metal plates like brigantine inside of it. There was real leather armor, but it was covered with a hard resin. The fantasy concept of leather armor comes from people like Gary Gygax looking at old paintings and not understanding what they were looking at.
>>64866503You don't even lift Shad. You can't even pierce leather yourself.
>>64866566Mongolians wore scale and lamellar armor over silk, they didn't wear DnD/larp style leather armor
>>64866587studded leather for instance comes from looking at brigandine and not realizing that those studs were holding something in place under the leather
>>64866503>>64866587Retard-kun, I...First of all, buff coats. Full-grain leather coats thick enough (~4mm) to stop a sword slash, worn by actual cavalry in actual wars throughout the 16th and 17th centuries. English Civil War soldiers wore these into battle sometimes instead of metal armor, and they were known to cost more than metal armor. They basically replaced gambesons and arming jacks, too, as they were often worn underneath breastplates. But yeah, totally a fantasy invention.Cuir bouilli -- literally "boiled leather" -- was hardened leather molded into rigid armor pieces across medieval Europe. Vambraces, cuisses, even breastplates. It could be shaped, unlike textile armor, was lighter than steel, and is documented in countless period inventories and manuscripts. But some 70IQ guy on /k/ has never heard of it so I guess it doesn't exist.The Mongols wore hardened leather lamellar and conquered the largest contiguous land empire in history. The Japanese used nerigawa (hardened lacquered leather) as a core structural component of samurai armor, and in lamellae. Spanish conquistadors wrote home about how effective Native multilayer rawhide armor was, and some of them adopted it because it was lighter in the heat. But sure, leather armor is a stupid fantasy concept.Also muh gambeson was frequently faced with leather.
>>64866649The lamellae in that armor was frequently made of leather or rawhide.
>>64866686That breastplate is still metal
>>64866349>Aragorn literally looked like a wimp in the movies and didn't really do anything impressive like that.He cut through plate armor and he literally threw Gimli in full body armor and kit substantially further than Gimli could jump, with one arm, clearing the gap and well into the walkway, knocking over several uruks.Later he also grabs a rope above his head with one hand and lifts Gimli with the other, letting them be hauled up.
>>64866587You mean it comes from Gary Gygax reading descriptions of hardened leather actually being used as simple armor in history, which has been proved even capable of stopping shots from a heavy draw longbow at a wearable thickness.
>>64866709Did DnD suggest leather for battlefield armor or for an extra layer of protection on a sneaking cutthroat trying to make very little noise?
>>64866709People often wore just the coat. Picrel is a pretty accurate representation of mid-17th century soldiery.
>>64866709English civil war kit.
>>64866737Re-enacted. The coats are thick, heavy, actually cost far more than metal breastplates back in 17th century England, and were considered "armor" by everybody. (Admittedly not so good against bullets, but the comfiest and lightest way to get protection from weapons like cavalry sabres.)
>>64866711Aragorn also isn't a humanhe is the Tolkien equivalent of a gigaaryan
>leather only wouldn't work as armorlayered linen seemed to serve Alexander the Great just fine
>>64866305>I can accept Aragorn impaling guys through their armor because one scene from now he's going to pick up a guy the size and shape of a washing machine and pitch him 30 feet with one hand. It's one thing for Conan to miss with his sword and take a chunk out of a stone wall the size of my foot, then cut through a guy's armor, but this inevitably lead to movies where everyone does it all the time.Yeah this, though it's a seemingly inevitable and insanely irritating trend in a lot of modern movie making in general. A lot of people seem incapable of realizing that what makes something really cool and special is precisely that it is in fact special, that it's a highly unusual thing. An example would be lightsabers in the original trilogy of Star Wars. You barely see them, usually briefly, and when they finally do come out shit is going down on a really personal level. But in the garbage second every other second they're flicking out the fucking lightsabers over and over again for anything, like>WOW LOOK MY FELLOW FANBOYS ITS A LIGHTSABER!! LIGHTSABER = EPIC STAR WARS!!!!!An inhuman feat like piercing through armor should be something that happens rarely, by just a few characters, precisely to visually highlight with no words how different they are from the vast majority who can't do that.Instead too many writers/directors are clearly hacks who have no idea how reality actually works, which is different from knowing but making a deliberate choice to warp it a little for a specific feel.
>>64866503I mean, leather jackets were used by bikers to protect against road rash. It's better than nothing. >>64866554Short answer yes. Boiling leather makes it super tough and dense but you end up needing a crapton of leather for leather armor. If you hear about Leather Lamellar it's because the biggest pieces of leather shrunk down to scale size when boiled. >>64866566Wait, what? Mongolian armor was Lamellar. Sometimes leather lamellar but never just a leather jacket.
>>64866867> Sometimes leather lamellar but never just a leather jacket.And yet: >>64866737Not only was this shit super popular, it was literally the ultimate (i.e. last) form of European armor. By the late 16th century, chainmail was a joke, plate armor was beginning its decline, and the leather jacket was becoming the final high-status armor of the warrior elite.
>leather armor discourseLeather armor did exist. Here is leather armor. Leather armor degrades over time. That's why the entirety of Europe isn't covered in a mile deep pile of leather scraps and shoes. The only reason this armor was preserved is because it was buried in fucking permafrost by the Scythians.Also linothorax was real, was made of linen, and was the term the Greeks used for the armor. Also spears lose to swords in duels when you're using actual sharp weapons. Every youtuber lied.
>>64865173This scene made me realize that D&D never read the book and just had an idea of it with some Martins suggestionsThe whole Tower of Joy scene was well described, narrated, and also easy to represent visually and instead they decided to fuck all, cut down the number of Kingsguard there and made Dayne a dual welding dancer instead of giving his iconic swordAlso to stay in thread, chain mail can be stabbed through
>>64865173Same with explosions in space.
>>64866917And the Mongols never used buff coats for armor simply because they didn't see it as armor. Mongolian warfare was very archery-centric and if the armor couldn't stop an arrow it was basically just some form of clothing. In fact, a buff coat wasn't even strictly a military garment. Hunters and travelers would wear it simply because it was more durable than cloth.
>>64865173To be fair, Lightbringer was a Valyrian steel sword which was supposed to be nearly mythical in its sharpness.
>>64866980Sounds a lot like Leather armor in DnD lmao
>>64866725Why would that suit make noise ? it has no metal articulations Light armor was just metal on vital spots only >>64866917Is that a britbong cope? the French wore breast plates on their elite cavalry until the mid XIX century
>>64866966>Also to stay in thread, chain mail can be stabbed throughYeah but there's degrees to that, it's not like it takes zero force. I really doubt anyone on earth can impale a torso through chainmail on both sides with any sword wider than the rings themselves.
>>64866934Thats not a good argument because non bronze swords and armor literally desintegrate if exposed, which is why all the weapons in European arms museums are masterpieces with inticrate carvings and decorations (survivorship bias of well maintained richfag heirlooms)
>>64866988>Why would that suit make noise ? it has no metal articulationsAnon hold a frying pan to your chest then suddenly hug your wall.
>>64866867>Boiling leather makes it super tough and dense Not quite, "boiled leather" refers to treatment of leather that involves more than just dunking it in hot water. Same way that you might think you can make boiled linseed oil by putting a pot of raw linseed oil on the stove, but in reality BLO contains other stuff like lead, and is not food safe like RLO.>but you end up needing a crapton of leather for leather armor.Yes, but leather isn't uncommon. It's used for expensive stuff today because of the cost of tanning and working with it compared to plastics and textiles, and because of the relative difficulty of coming up with large panels of it without blemishes for making seats or jackets. If plastics don't exist and you don't care about a scar or brand in your leather, then leather is a common and relatively inexpensive material.
>>64867002There are more scenarios where iron survives than leather, because leather is not just facing corrosion but actively being eaten. If that's too hard for you, that's why there are a lot of bones and not a lot of naturally occurring mummies.
>>64867004A chest plate fits your body and is held in place tightly
>>64867069Are you seriously suggesting slamming or scraping a breastplate into a stone wall makes comparable noise to doing so with a piece of worn leather because it's tight against your chest?
>>64866746>>64866737>>64866686What advantage does this have over a chainmail shirt?
>>64867079How many times do you scrap your chest into walls a day you fat fuck?
>>64867107bro stealth obviously involves scraping around tight ledges into the enemy encampment that is perfectly protected in all directions except a precarious ledge on a cliff that is just large enough to barely walk across.
>>64867107We were talking about someone hiding, sneaking, pressing against walls and cover, and crawling in fucking caves and castles you stupid disingenuous faggot
>>64867122Is your idea of sneaking just things you've seen in videogames?
>>64867105Chainmail is heavy as fuck. A buffcoat is way lighter, more comfortable, was considered (at the time) much more stylish as it could be cut and tailored in civilian fashions, and it was effective enough.> "The efficacy of buff-leather to withstand punishment in battle is evidenced from a number of sources. One citizen from the town of Nérac, for example, was known for the high quality of his buff-coats which were able to withstand the blows of a sword and the thrusts of a pike."> . . . > "In the Americas, buff-coats were highly effective in stopping arrows and the 1625 military census in Virginia lists 25 buff and quilted coats amongst other armours. In the Pequot War of 1634-1638 between European colonists and the Pequot tribe of Connecticut, one Captain Underhill wrote, “Captain Mason and my selfe entering into Wygwams, he was shott, and receivd many Arrows against his head-peece, God preserved him from any wounds, my selfe received a shotte in the left hippe, though a sufficient Buffe coate, that if I had not been supplied with such a garment, the Arrow would have pierced through me”From: The Seventeenth Century Buff Coat By Keith Dowen, Curator of Arms and Armour at the Wallace Collection.
>>64867129>Leather armor didn't exist in any form!>I meant DnD bad because it says leather jackets are the same as plate armor!>I meant metal armor would literally in no way inconvenience someone performing the role of a DnD Rogue!>I MEANT NO ONE HAS EVER HAD TO SNEAK IN A CAVE EVER AAAAAAAHHHHlmao at the drift in this fucking argument.
>>64866302Do you think armor is like some vidya health bar irl? If someone swings a sword at your armor, the force will still be transmitted to your body regardless of the sword penetrating it. It will still hurt and at the very least you'll get bruises. Most armor also don't cover every part of the body perfectly. Even late medieval full plate have a hole for the eyes and infantry have special daggers to stab through it.
>>64866966"They ignored the source material again..."
>>64867122I bet that happened twice in the two thousand years of plate being used TwiceSneaking was just walking slowly in the night and shaking a dude in his sleep or setting bags of grain on fire or dropping a dead rat in a well Nigga, crawling in tight spaces in a castle? if you want a man inside the opposition castle you send a spy not a soldier
>>64867141>If someone swings a sword at your armor, the force will still be transmitted to your body regardless of the sword penetrating it. It will still hurtNot really. You can swing a sword full force at me in plate armor, doesn't feel like much. Taking a hard hit to the head is a bit unpleasant at worst.>Even late medieval full plate have a hole for the eyes and infantry have special daggers to stab through it.That really won't work with many helms.
>>64866554Boiled leather is really tough stuff and much cheaper and easier to make than plate, it was very common for most of history
>>64866737Ye olde high speede, loweth drag, single point sling.
>>64867151>>64867138>>64867138"Leather armor didn't exist" and "flails didn't exist" are the two glaring tells of the smarmy midwit redditor.
>>64867159ohhhh I knew I was missing one. Fucking flails.Flails, leather armor, linothorax. And I think all three are because of that one brit retard who couldn't stop saying spandau.
>>64866737ngl thats some insane drip but I doubt it was better than metal, the navy ate all the budget of the british empire just look at what the Prussians, Italians and French were wearing up until the XX century on their elite cavalry
Why the fuck would anyone sneak into a cave for in medieval and musket era times ?Piss on the salt deposits of your enemy to demoralize their cooks? And how would you sneak into a castle full of staff,guards and walls with or without armor? I'd accuse you of watching too many tv shows but even in Game of Thrones the indoors assasinations are done by spies,turncoats and bribed staff not special op ninja teams lol
>>64865182
>>64866761Phalanxes don't rely on armour.
>>64867159>>64867166There's a lot more of them, too. Fire arrows and windlass crossbows come to mind.
>>64866349>Aragorn literally looked like a wimphis first description according to Frodo is>strange-looking>weather-beaten>shaggy head of dark hairand the barkeep has nothing much to say, descriptively, other than to call him a tall drink of waterand Aragorn mockingly describes himself as looking like>mysterious vagabondand>rascallyso yeah he wouldn't look exceptionally fit
>>64867105Doesn't send broken links into your wounds when a bullet hits. Nobody ever says it but that was probably the main reason why they supplanted mail. After all, it's not like as if buff coats didn't exist before the 16th century.
>>64867338Cloth armor was incredibly common all throughout the middle ages, and important enough that we have multiple pieces belonging to high nobility that were considered worth preserving through the centuries. Its popularity has nothing to do with firearms.
>>64867338nigger that doesn't matter if a musket ball goes through you your ass is fucking dead. No, the link in your lung ain't a fucking problem holy shit. Nigger there ain't no surgery here this is the thirty years war you're gonna die
>>64867141Depends on the type of armor. Plate has its own rigid structure so whole the wearer will absorb the force it's distributed over a wide area and not likely to bruise. Consider that plate is pretty much always worn over a soft, padded doublet and you can in fact get hit all day with a sword for minimal impact on your body.Now if somebody klonks you on the head with a mace that's a different story.
>>64867442Maces being anti armor is itself a meme even if buburt bans them and hammers out of a propensity of caution. You aren't going to compromise plate armor with a mace when it withstands poleaxes and pole hammer strikes. Mail and jacks though there is not turning a mace to the clavicle, which is probably why the mace is a secondary weapon of the knight and a symbol of authority through association.
>>64867147lmao see >>64867138
>>64867105Lighter, easier to make and significantly less likely to embed chunks of metal into your flesh when struck
>>64867141That, my friend, is why you wear padding under your plate
>>64867691no it's not.
>>64866737Now post the Italian version. We need some plump Lombooty in this thread.
>>64866503>if you need a light armor option use a fucking GambesonGambesons aren't really light. They are just cheap.Lightest practical armor would be light mail (mail can very greatly in ring sizes, density and weave).
>>64866554>Was there ever such a thing as leather armorYes Only it wasn't like adnd biker leather jackets. It was made from thick boiled leather. In thickness, and density and stiffness it was more akin to plywood. Often arranged as lamellar armor.
>>64868265> Lightest practical armor would be light mail (mail can very greatly in ring sizes, density and weave).You've never seen or worn chainmail in your life. What that guy's wearing is DEFINITELY not light and not very practical. Buffcoat unironically btfos it. Breastplates and other forms of light plate are also 10x better. What's with that pic, btw? He looks like a German guy from the 19th century trying to larp as an Ottoman turk from the 16th. Maybe some kind of Afghani?
>>64867691You don't need to wear padding underneath Plate armor. Plate armor itself absorbs shock well and wearing padding prevents tight fitting. Tight fitting means less weight and more flexibility.
>>64866302>I hope one day someone will spare a few extra seconds of screentime to show armoured warriors to withstand some real beatingThere was one Polish movie in the 80s that portrait it well. One knight got jumped by a pack of robbers and massacred the shit out of them because , duh, he was practicing fencing since early childhood and had full body plate armor. >>64866480P.S.Gass the kikes.
>>64867287Why can't they just be nice to each other?
>>64866674>studded leatherI think it's conflating that with punk-style studded jackets.
>>64866725>Did DnD suggest leather for battlefield armor or for an extra layer of protection on a sneaking cutthroat trying to make very little noise?It's light armour for rogues with no or minimal dex penalty, worthless for melee classes who expect to take a hit.
>>64868274I've never had the luxury of wearing properly fitted plate armour (I'm told that a good suit goes for north of 80 grand US) so for me padding was almost literal lifesaver
>>64867147>I bet that happened twice in the two thousand years of plate being usedIt happens every session in D&D which is what this reply chain is discussing.
>>64868271>This welding smock weight leather coat definitely will not get cut clean through by a backsword or penetrated instantly by a plug bayonet or pike... Because ok?! Mail has a realistic chance of standing up to a light lance hit, javelin, dagger, arrow, or thrusting sword. Buff coats were literal fucking cope without the breastplate and helmet they went over them and actual soldiery and nobles were still in at least half harness during the ECW.
>>64866302Netflix's "The King" was pretty good at portraying combat in armor.
>>64868421Despite it being a 1980's cheesefest using leftover props from an abandoned Lord of the Rings movie, Excalibur manages to portray armor actually doing something.
>>64868271>You've never seen or worn chainmail in your life. What that guy's wearing is DEFINITELY not light and not very practicalDunno about Georgian but Circassian survived mail hauberks weight 8-10 pounds. Light.>Buffcoat unironically btfos it. Until you get hit with actually sharp sword.As for practicality Circassians had special sabres with mail piercing tip that illustrates that mail was common enough to warrant special swords In that region.
>>64867374they didn't have niggers yet either in the 30 years war
>>64868461>Dunno about Georgian but Circassian survived mail hauberks weight 8-10 pounds. Light.Do you have a source on that? What pattern are they?Because I have a historically made hauberk in the early medieval style (short sleeves, not very long, basically just a shirt), and it's approaching 30 lbs. Granted, I'm 6'3 so it's larger than most historical maille, but I find it hard to believe there's that great of a difference.
>>64866302The elves literally don't fight a single person in any of the books. Maybe Legolas if you count him, but he's not wearing armor at all due to the constant traveling. In fact, the only time a single elf besides Legolas (who is distinctly "young" and underequipped) ever opposes anyone is when Glorfindel singlehandedly mogs like five Nazgul by himself after encountering them during their attempt to catch Frodo during the flight to Rivendell.
>>64867141>erm, actuallyKnights fully kitted out were not fucked with, peasant foot soldiers would run from them or poke them with long sticks because they can and did fuck everyone else up
>>64866566The Mongols got raped when they tried to move into Western Europe
>>64868446>John Boorman's Excalibur>cheesefestMy man, it's THE greatest Arthurian legend movie ever made. Nothing made after it even comes close.
>>64867105>What advantage does a plate rig have over this?
>>64869855>Do you have a source on that?The Kremlin Armoury >What pattern are they?1 into 4 weave, 18 gauge, 25/64 inches diameter of the rings.Muscovites made mail hauberks of the same period weighted 20-24 pounds, 1 into 6 weave. mail weight (and protection quality) can wary drastically.
>>64869979Muscovites made mail for comparison.
>>64869979>>64869989Very cool, thank you anon I got to learn something new. I had no idea maille that light existed.
>>64866566>to conquer EuropeYou mean fail to fully pacify Hungary, never dare advance past that and then go away entirely when the Hungarians decided to be unsporting about it and made the whole enterprise a shitshow. And that was the first attempt. The second didn't even make it that far.Turns out all you need to stop the Mongols is a shitload of stone fortifications and local terrainadn climate that does not allow for horse-heavy armies to remain in place and lay siege.
>>64870036>Turns out all you need to stop the Mongols is a shitload of stone fortificationsLike Rome had? Didn't work.>local terrainadn climateLike what?
>>64869900I don't think anyone could do the legend justice although Merlin did come kind of close. Fuck I want to watch Excalibur again.
>>64866726for me it's the regiment kitty cat in the bottom right corner
>>64867199>And how would you sneak into a castle full of staff,guards and walls with or without armor?That did happen historically, often by "abandoning the siege" and having soldiers sneak in inside carts or barges. Granted I think more standard siege tactics are more interesting and better display tactical brilliance. Any douchebag can go "hurr what if we sneak in instead of assaulting it" developing a strategy of sapping under the walls, approaching the enemy slowly with trenches or portable shields to protect you from fire, cutting off resupply and water, and breaking the enemy morale requires far more intelligence and foresight. Vauban's worst executed siege still displays more competence than the most genius maneuver in Game of Thrones.I think fictional and pseudohistorical battles are more interesting when actual strategies of the times are deployed instead of stupid gimmicks to show "wow he's so smart and underhanded and doesn't think like all these idiots" like Napoleon having soldiers dig in when in reality his strategies were focused on tactical mobility which entrenchment defeated the point of.
Could a crossbow penetrate a buff coat?
>>64870036>local terrainadn climate that does not allow for horse-heavy armies to remain in place and lay siege.Pest would be ideal terrain to break out the yurts and graze horses. It's a giant plain with rolling hills here and there.Back in the day, it would have been not dissimilar to the grasslands, albeit at sea level.
>>64870040>Like Rome had? Didn't workMongols didn't exist until long after Rome fell, Rome didn't fall to a horde.The Huns were around then but they didn't come so far south until later.
>>64867159The new one I heard is that "people forgot how to make torsion Siege weapons around 500 AD"
>>64870036>You mean fail to fully pacify Hungary, never dare advance past that and then go away entirely when the Hungarians decided to be unsporting about it and made the whole enterprise a shitshow.What a weird way to cope>Mongols send a small raiding party into Hungary>Ravage the country, sack the capital>Go home>Mongols send another raiding party into Hungary>Meet with more fortifications>Raid a bit and go home>Decisive European victory, Mongol power perpetually shattered>Turns out all you need to stop the Mongols is a shitload of stone fortifications and local terrainadn climate that does not allow for horse-heavy armies to remain in place and lay siege.You do realize Hungarian armies were very horse heavy, right? In fact all European armies of the era were. Also Mongols were well used to destroying fortifications in China and the Middle East and European castles weren't fundamentally different than them.Pride over Mongols not conquering Europe is like Scottish pride over Rome not conquering them. You didn't stop the Mongols, you were a backwater not worth the effort of subjugating.
>>64867287Is the guy with the axe in his head getting teamkilled?
>>64867374What if you get shot in the arm?
>>64870593Definitely. Buff coats were closer to biker leathers than, for example, chainmail.
>>64870693So why did the Mongols never succeed in taking a single European stone castle?
>>64870655>Mongols didn't exist until long after Rome fellThe Romans were paying them off not to attack because they were scared, and couldn't handle the Turks. Eastern Roman Empire is real and valid.>The Huns were around then but they didn't come so far south until later.The Huns only didn't sack Rome because the Pope himself begged Attila not to.
>>64870119>>64869900Didn't we just have the big thread about arthurian legends.
>>64868265Bro, you would still wear that mail over heavy clothing or padded armor which qualifies as another soft layer of armor. Go ahead and wear mail over a T-shirt if you want to bruise the shit out of your torso and ribs.
>>64865173
>>64871310>0:19>gets whacked in the head with the flail by the crusader on the horseHe is dead.
>>64870697>Is the guy with the axe in his head getting teamkilled?He's fleeing, I think. All the simple helms and round shields are the opposing side being ridden down by the knights.
>>64871310>3 trained and fully armoured knights jobs to man with rocki hate ridley scott more than you can possibly imagine
>>64866649Awful illustrations, Mongols had both metallic and rawhide lamellar armors.
>>64867141> If someone swings a sword at your armor, the force will still be transmitted to your body regardless of the sword penetrating it. It will still hurt and at the very least you'll get bruises. You won't even notice that someone hit you with a sword when you are wearing full plate armour. Blunt trauma is a a new cope>After decades of retards doing "penetration" tests on either paper thin aluminum sheets of metal or literally larp (butted or not even metal) maille people finally bring proper armours to test>turns out, it works extremely well>immediately a new cope starts>uh that hit that didn't even scratch a paint would definitely crush few bones, collapse lungs, give brain damage and cancer.Like think for a moment. Getting hit with a hammer(a handy tool, not a weapon) in a head will fucking kill you. Meanwhile a fucking maces are allowed in modern buhurts, because they do shit to plate armours.
>>64871287Yes and it was glorious.
>>64871310anti-Christian mudslime-apologist movie/k/ino battle scenes though
>>64869892The Lorien elves take down Dol Guldor. It's not the main focus of the story but it's mentioned.
>>64867141Lol no. Anon, you could hit me all day with a sword, and I will not be inconvenienced if I'm in my armor. If you don't hit me VERY hard- harder than us actually practical most of the time- and it the weapon doesn't enter my field of view, I may not even know you're hitting me. The earliest plate will spread the force over the entire piece being hit. The best will spread it over most of the body.
>>64867303They do, though. Otherwise nobody in them would bother buying and wearing it. Armor is pretty important for protecting against projectiles, opposing sarissas, and swords/spears from people who manage to reach you- which we know happened to Alexanders phalanxes.
>>64867149HEMAfags have convinced the world that armour makes you borderline unkillable, but HEMAfags ironically enough don't know how to strike properlya single full force sword swing to the head can kill you, and it will severely concuss you at the very leasta sword strike to the head even if you're wearing the heaviest jousting helmet imaginable imparts more force and momentum than a baseball bat blowthis has been repeatedly proven by actual historiansI mean the fact that HEMAfags consider zweihanders and great axes "too dangerous to practice with properly" (i.e. full contact sparring) should be telling you everything about the realities of the physics of medieval combat and how pussified HEMAfags are because actual knights used to actually train with real fucking weapons, and they suffered fractures and sometimes even deaths during that training because that training was a matter of life and death in combatmedieval training was a live fire exercise with service weapons and modern HEMA is olympic air pistolfundamentally there is nothing wrong with that, but you wouldn't take breaching advice from an olympian
>>64873085not reading all that, you're wrong, simple as.
>>64873092you will never be a real knight
>>64873085> t. doesn't realize buhurt existsDude, armor works really well. > a sword strike to the head even if you're wearing the heaviest jousting helmet imaginable imparts more force and momentum than a baseball bat blow> this has been repeatedly proven by actual historiansMost of the time, if you're in a fight, you're not standing still and letting somebody wind up and hit you like that. Getting hit in the head with a blunt training sword sucks, even if you're wearing a helmet, but it's not as bad as you think.
>>64873098good
>>64873099>Most of the time, if you're in a fight, you're not standing still and letting somebody wind up and hit you like that.did you even read the post that I was replying to or are you just moving goalpostsit literally says the following;>You can swing a sword full force at me in plate armor, doesn't feel like much. Taking a hard hit to the head is a bit unpleasant at worst.
>>64873111That's completely true though.
>>64870693So what you're saying is that the mongols didn't conquer Europe.
>>64873113you might want to call OSHA and tell them that their standards about falling objects are inaccurate then, because they're based on the same physicsalso no HEMAfag has ever has taken up the offer of being hit in the head with a sword by someone who isn't in their circlejerkeven for body armour tests they never bring in outsiders; it's always other HEMA people going comically lightly; bringing in billybob johnson who works demolition crew to hit you over the head as hard as he can would be good evidence that armour works as they claim it does but that never happens for some reason
>>64873131Nah, I'll just tell you that you're a gay retard
>>64873131I've hit a guy in the head hard enough that his visor wouldn't open afterward. He was pretty chill about it.
>>64873131Are there any vids of people putting helmets on ballistic dummies and whacking them with medieval weapons in front of a slomo camera?Seems like it's be easy youtube views
>>64873131>also no HEMAfag has ever has taken up the offer of being hit in the head with a sword by someone who isn't in their circlejerkIs this something that actually happened, or did you just imagine this scenario to be mad about?
>>64873131Nigger we literally have modern sports leagues where people do nothing but lift heavy and then hit each other as hard as they can with overbuilt swords specifically meant to deliver as much force as possible. It does jack shit. We have historical accounts of knights at tourneys needing to lay their head in an anvil and get a blacksmith to unfuck their helmet so they could get it off. Of men taking dozens of poleaxe hits and continuing to fight. We KNOW the primary lance target was the visor in large part because it's one of the few things that would reliably harm the opponent, and even then, you're also banking on a forcible disniunt because there's a good chance you won't hurt him.But you're a theory crafting retard who doesn't fight and doesn't read, so you wouldn't know that.
>>64868271I think the pic showed up from a semi-autonomous region the Caucuses in WWI to fight for the Czar, if I remember correctly.
>>64869892The Gray Company includes elves and dunedain specifically some of Elrond's kids iirc and they fight with Aragorn from the docks (fuck you Jackson for not only removing Gandalf vs the Witch King's mexican standoff but also literally missing the point of why it is called Return of the King by cutting the significance of Aragorn leading Men under the banner of the White Tree once more) and the Black Gate so I assume they fought but cannot remember anything specifically mentioning their skills.
>>64870693>>not worth the effort of subjugating.>we didnt want it anywaykek
>>64869900It is extremely cheesy but what makes it work is how sincere it is played. I wont even lie the part where Arthur drinks from the Grail and realizes what has gone wrong and its sorta faintly implied understands how it is going to end and rides out 1 last time in literal shining armor while Carmina Burana plays makes me tear up like a bitch every time just like the end of Last Crusade
>>64871306>Bro, you would still wear that mail over heavy clothingCaucasian region warriors wore it's just over clothes. Similar can be in Iran and India. These clothes weren't shirts, more like military coat in thickness, but not gambeson.
>>64873910>not gambesonan arming doublet, what you would normally wear under maille, would be two layers of linen stitched together, with some horsehair or hemp paddingthey were not heavy at all
>>64873896I always thought of the film as essentially Mad Max England.
>>64873892>Travel across the globe to conquer an area with 5% of China's population
>>64873130And the Europeans never conquered China, it doesn't mean Qing China could have defeated the British Empire in a war.
>>64871310the wrong scott brother died
>>64870119Merlin gets credit for incorporating some of the Celtic Arthur and trying to mix it with the Norman Arthur. Excalibur, while interesting as a film, is almost exclusively Norman.
>>64874193Can't farm glory after you've conquered a place.Pack up the yurts, saddle the horses and move on to the next city, line must go up!
>>64865173wouldnt that work tho? given sufficient momentum and good blade alignment wouldnt you be able to stab though chainmail with such a sword?
>>64874772no, you'd get some penetration depending on how much the sword is built for thrusting but a person can't typically stab right through a half decent bit of chain. Honestly the last episode of Knight of the Seven Kingdoms was really fucking good in it's portrayal, a horse couched war lance punches straight through it but a dagger while getting some penetration is still protected against
>>64874790im not touching that trash since they fucked up the last seasonand yea i meant penetrating chainmail like that is totally plausible by thrusting like that its just not a move you're likely to be able to get away with in a swordfight. its more absurd that the sword penetrated though the entire rest of the body that easily.and in movies they pull the sword out easily where's in a real fight if you get a sword lodged inside someone like that you better have a secondary weapon or you're defenseless
>>64874790a rondel can go through a milimeter or so of steel plate with very little convincing m8you're fucking delusional
>>64873131>also no HEMAfag has ever has taken up the offer of being hit in the head with a sword by someone who isn't in their circlejerk>even for body armour tests they never bring in outsiders; it's always other HEMA people going comically lightly; bringing in billybob johnson who works demolition crew to hit you over the head as hard as he can would be good evidence that armour works as they claim it does but that never happens for some reasonA hema/buhurt group saw me watching them in a park once and tried to recruit me. They had me hit a helmeted guy in the head with a two-hand grip on a shortsword as hard as I could. It wasn't fun for him but he was fine.And I bench 175x5, not huge, but I'm not a twig, if that's your cope
>>64874325>Check youtube>Someone has upscaled Merlin and uploaded it in fullWell anons see you later.
Man, this thread makes me want to get back to KCDII. I just wish I wasn't completely inept at the combat...
>>64874820sounds cool, may we see it?
>>64875042yes actuallyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iU3q23jGX0
>>64874820Should be noted that helmets and breastplates started at about 2mm and only got thicker. Limbs were definitely thinner, tho.>>64875117Dayum. That'll definitely get through a gauntlet. You could probably get through a weak point on a helmet or breastplate too if the target was pinned down.
>>64875182I'd probably look for an armpit or just aim it at the groin, knowing myselfbut yeah, maille is only good against cuts (though it is very very good against cuts)
I dont watch Hollywood joo shitOP, get a job
>>64875117I’ll be honest it’s more impressive than I thought it’d be as I fully expected some cold steel nonsense like stabbing car doors or something but even Todd points out that they’re doing basically the most idealized circumstance imanginable with the steel being a mild steel flat sheet rather than actual armor(and now we see why they went through such lengths to make sure there weren’t flat surfaces), and a rondel being pushed down with an ice pick grip with the other hand pushing on top from a leaning over position is a long way from a guy trying to stab with a general purpose dagger while grappling which is what happened in KotSK
>>64873085Are you conflating HEMA with SCA?
>>64875406It's a well known fact that cats add a 50% reduction in rat-borne illnesses and 20% improvement in morale.
>>64875333trips of all truein particular I agree with your point (natch) about it being a flat plate, such a thin point would have a harder time sticking into anything curved although with how many greeblies and incised patterns and whatnot some of those armors had... who knowsI am also not sure face-hardened steel would have fared any better, but it would be worth a try> long way from a guy trying to stab with a general purpose dagger while grapplingI don't know why they didn't try an upward or straight stab against a vertical plateI would have tried that, and then tried it again with the plate at a 45 degree angle to the incoming thrust to get a more accurate idearegardless, my takeaway is you do NOT want to be flat on your back with some rondel-wielding maniac on top of you, which you know, always seemed like common sense to me anyway but now is scientific fact, more or less
>>64875406>I'm no expert but my understanding was that things like chain mail and leather armor would only stop a glancing (i.e. being slashed across the chest) or very weak direct blow and that things like a direct thrust with a well-made sword or arrow launched from optimal distance would still punch through it relatively easily.People dramatically underestimate the amount of force required to penetrate Chain over Gambeson with a thrust.
>>64865182Knight of the seven kingdoms is pretty realistic in terms of how protective the armor is for guys in Full Harness. In the big battle episode pretty much the only thing that can instakill a knight is a couched war lance charge. Otherwise is roundels, grappling, maces etc and takes a while to bring a guy down. The last duel was good in that respect as well.
>>64876773depends on the weapon innitogival point early norman sword? surerapier? not so much
>>64867141explain Frodo getting stabbed full force by a cave troll but completely shrugging it off simply due to wearing a mithril chainshirt
>>64876801>The last duel was good in that respect as well.Please.
>>64877264I would wager that whether the objective measure is substantial (a poor penetrator of mail and coat) or optimal (An ideal weapon) the average commentator is wildly underestimating the forces required in all cases because the average commentator is retarded.
>>64877415In the book, it was just a goblin that did it. In the movie, you have to imagine that Mithril armor has a supernatural resilience that, in part, protects the wearer even from blunt impact.
>>64871310>Shrugs off a flail strike from a charging knight despite while wearing armorScott, what the fuck man...
>>64877549>despite wearing no armorFugged up
>>64866986That's exactly what it is. A lot of people think of DnD=late antiquity/middle ages, and miss that there were a lot of Renaissance/late medieval influences as well. A leather buff coat is exactly how leather armor is described in older editions, or as curboil cuirasses. People also tend to forget it's a fantasy, and get angry about inaccuracies or artistic license. It's also a setting in which boobplate is 100% viable, since chainmail bikinis are just as effective as real plate armor when you enchant the fuck out of them.
>>64873849Yep. And by the time they made it down from the mountains, the Tsar had been murdered and Russia was no longer at war. No idea what happened to them, I wonder if the commies murdered them or just sent them home.
>>64875000I've not played 2 yet, but the first one still holds up well, and once your strength is decently high, you can just pick the headcracker perk and run around KOing everyone with a hammer. No need for fancy combos when GONK is on your side.
>>64877415Didn't that hit knock Frodo out? Being a hobbit might have actually saved him.
>>64877582in the movie he just makes a dramatic "oh I'm dying face", but is completely fine and running around a minute later after others check up on himEven if the spear didn't pierce the mithril it would have completely crushed his ribs and internal organs since, you know, it was thrust by a cave troll. But I guess magic armor nullifies the impact itself.
>>64877564I've never played OG DnD but the 5e SRD describes leather armor as the basic pop history hollywood BS.>The breastplate and shoulder protectors of this armor are made of leather that has been stiffened by being boiled in oil. The rest of the armor is made of softer and more flexible materials.Studded leather has a shorter description. >Made from tough but flexible leather, studded leather is reinforced with close-set rivets or spikes.AFAIK there is no historical backing for this and usually the explanation is its a misinterpretation of brigandines. TLDR leather armor did exist, often as soft armor or as a backing or fixing material to metals. Sometimes you would see rare exceptions like the Mongol leather lamellar but it did not exist in the pop history sense of a biker jerkin or as 1:1 boiled leather replacements for steel plate armor.
Why would you want to stab trough thoughWhat did the trough ever do to you
>>64877605In Ye Olden Dayes, leather armor was either described as being a light, flexible coat able to deflect a slash (buffcoat) or the description you gave, accompanied by an illustration of a Roman/Late Hellenic muscle cuirasse. Cloth/padded armor was originally depicted as either a gambeson or linothorax, I think in more recent editions it looks more like a quilted vest and landsknecht pants (a baller look, to be fair). Studded leather is based on older interpretations of illustrations of brigandine armor, and the error is not Gygax's alone; scholarly works about medieval armor that would have been available at the time Gygax and his wargaming buddies came up with DnD include descriptions of brigandine/lamellar as flexible leather covered in studs/spikes, though we know it was an erroneous description now. It remains a part of DnD, as studded leather serves as a transition between the "thief" armors that assume the wearer relies mostly on their own DEX bonus to avoid blows and the "fighter" armors that provide heavy protection without the player relying on a stat bonus.
>>64877639>as studded leather serves as a transition between the "thief" armors that assume the wearer relies mostly on their own DEX bonus to avoid blows and the "fighter" armors that provide heavy protection without the player relying on a stat bonus.I don't see why you couldn't replace that with lamellar. The only potential problem is it doesn't perfectly mesh with the western euro fantasy flavor of base DnD. Another potential would be Linothorax like you said. Go Padded (gambeson) > Leather (buff coat) > Linothorax.
>>64877658Yeah, during AD&D/3rd ed Oriental Adventures added lamellar, and had some good DM advise which was basically "change the names on stuff to something Asian sounding and use it, since armor doesn't really matter past about level 8 or so when everyone starts rocking fully enchanted kit".
>>64877586Being lighter than a man but having the same bone density means that Frodo would tend to Roll with the Blow rather than be crushed.
>>64867142Shut the fuck up, zoomer scum.
>>64873098I will blackmail the King with new revelations about his pedo brother.
>>64866709>Full-grain leather coats thick enough (~4mm) to stop a sword slashSo can a gambeson>worn by actual cavalry in actual wars throughout the 16th and 17th centuries.mostly by English>and they were known to cost more than metal armor.Aaaaaaand here we go. It was a fashion accessory, that's why it's use was so localized through time and territory. And padding is not really an armour on itself, you can't wear padding into battle and except it to work as an armor.>It could be shapedThe potential armour, it could, it should, but for some reason, none survived.>The Mongols wore hardened leather lamellar and conquered the largest contiguous land empire in history.Russia is a biggest country on earth, but it is less impressive when you note, that 99% of Russian conquests outside of core Muscovite territory is a frozen wasteland. Also we are really reaching a cope category here.>The Japanese used nerigawa The phrase "Japanese used" instantly disqualifies leather as a viable armour. Nips were retarded, they used butted maille (literally larp armour), wooden armor (but didn't think of using it as a personal shield) and many more.> Native multilayer rawhide armor wasAmerican natives didn't know proper metalworking, and Spanish were praising the cotton gambesons, and yeah, cotton is nice. >it was lighter4mm is about as heavy as 0.8mm of steel, so no, it's not light.
>>64877415The chainshirt is cleverly designed to turn completely rigid when subjected to a strong impact. This spreads the force of the blow across the entire torso.Also it's magic.
>>64879902> literal retardpoasting.Buffcoats were quite famously worn by the Swedes and Germans over the course of the 30 Year's War, which was a famously brutal conflict. Gustavus Adolphus even died in his buffcoat. (He was shot at close range.)They were popular with men of discerning taste even in distant lands. Here's one made for the King of Portugal: > https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23347Picrel is from the Museum of Military History in Vienna. > I-it didn't exist because I don't like the idea of leather armor!Cope faggot.
>>64879902> mostly by Englishlmao. I think we're dealing with a historylet over here.
>>64880048>>64880041Bodied that freak.
>>64877605>I've never played OG DnD but the 5e SRD describes leather armor as the basic pop history hollywood BS.1. there's no DnD past 3e2. You absolutely can boil leather in various things to produce a much tougher, but less flexible, material
>>64880066>there's no DnD past 3e3.5e is the one true edition. 3e was so broken, it came with a free baggy to hold the pieces.
>>648801203e wizards were so busted, bro. It was actually pretty awesome. Imagine playing a buckbroken martial class, lmaoooo
>>64877703>Being lighter than a man but having the same bone density means that Frodo would tend to Roll with the Blow rather than be crushed.Hobbitses also have integral organic padding as a feature.
>>64880133>buckbroken martial classI think you're forgetting about the spiked chain/great cleave rort.
>>64880136I mean, that's great if you fight goblins all the time, sure.
>>64880142Not that anon, but there was also the svirfneblin rogue/fighter/weapon master/duelist keen kukri build that critted on a 14 or better, had 5 attacks at full BAB, and always counted as flanking so sneak attack always got added in. Dropping 50d6+ of damage every single turn was nice.You could get pretty cheesy with martial builds as well.
>>64880048what part of "mostly" you don't understand?>>64880041>king king king king kingwhoa way to make a point.>extremely rich people wore a piece of ornament therefore shit like this>>64866737was a basic kitIt's another part of retarded 20th century historians thinking that metal armor was outrageously expensive and completely out of reach of normal people, so they took depictions of rich people wearing combo of buff coat and steel plate and concluded, that the breastplate was the expensive part, so leather armor was the cheap alternative for the poorfags, right, right guys?Except it wasn't, it was so expensive you could buy few muskets and few sets of steel bulletproofed armor for the price of one. We have contemporary letters where son asks his father to buy him one because sir bucksworth called him a poorfag for not having one, and his dad replaying to fuck off because sir bucksworth is right. It's the nobles we are talking about right now, buff coats were so expensive your average noble couldn't afford lightly one.No matter the amount of paintings from 1990 depicting buffcoats as some kind of uniform won't make it true. Get fucked retards, leather armour basically wasn't a thing, because it was economically unviable. It's like making an armour out of gold. King Friedcharles the 50th having one doesn't make golden armours real.
>>64871310thought this was a 70's movie from the first shot until the shaky cam started
>>64880041the 30 years war was a transitional point to the unarmored Napoleonic era.
>>64880066>You absolutely can boil leather in various things to produce a much tougher, but less flexible, materialYou can, but nobody was making full boiled leather analogs to plate armor like pop culture often depicts. That's my point>there's no DnD past 3eArguing over muh favorite DND edition is peak faggotry. >It's another part of retarded 20th century historians thinking that metal armor was outrageously expensive and completely out of reach of normal peopleIts like they forgot Munitions grade armor was a thing. I find most historians, outside of those whole specialize in arms and armor and spend time performing experiments with this shit are usually woefully ignorant on the topic. If you want to know how this shit worked then you need to study it, and you really need to get some and use it. A day in armor will tell you more than reading any book.
>>64880169some of my martial monk builds got pretty nutsI am sure it was intended
>>64880522Lol yeah I had forgotten about some of the monk shenanigans.
>>64880174the retardation about steel plate armor being hugely expensive and hard to make began in 19th century and 20th "historians" just kept parroting it and now LLMs will parrot it forevermeanwhile IRL Jeanne d'Arc got a very nice whole ass bespoke suit made for her in a few weeks and it cost like a year's worth of journeyman wages or some shit like that, 14th century Deanos all had it, to the point where they were wearing gambesons and those weird rolled things on their heads around town to imply they could have taken the suit out for a walk had they wanted todon't get me started on munitions armor either>>64880386>unarmored>Napoleonicwhat are Cuirassiers? why are you such a faggot?
>>64880540you know, the MUH BALANCE folk won and I'm not so sure it's a good thing, culturally speakingyes it was broken as fuck in placeswas it fun to drive? sure as fuck! did it hurt anyone or harm quest progression that it was broken? not really, the DM could always come up with some bullshit to knock you down a peg if he wanted to (some of the monsters seemed designed for that express purpose, too)and once you got the munchkinism out of your system (not that everyone did) you could start using roleplay builds and sometimes find more abstruse breakage in doing so, which was also fun
>>64880577I think I had a lot more fun building characters back then because you could do all the cheesy exploity stuff. And it was fun talking to your buddies about the hilarious combos and loopholes you found, and planning character progressions. Don't have the time for that like I used to, but it was a great time back in the day.
>>64880550Cuirassiers were the exception, not the norm. The overwhelming majority was unarmored and the fact that the Cuirassiers had armored was so exceptional that they're Literally Named After Their Armor.
>>64880626>unarmored era>but the shock troops of all major nations were armoredokay buddy
>>64880721>shock troops of all major nationsCuirassiers were actually pretty rare and not all nations made use of them. They nearly died out entirely by the French Revolution with Austria being the biggest user of Cuirassers with 12 regiments. Even when Napoleon expanded his armored regiments it was only about 13,000 riders out of a 500,000 man army.
>>64874790Decided to watch Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. Good battle scene. Armor indeed does work. Though the blunt force trauma should have caused far more deaths there.
>>64881808>Decided to watch Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. Good battle scene. Armor indeed does work.Dunk gets stabbed like 15 times through his mail. Yes, I'm aware that it's possible to stab through mail with a sword, but he would have been better off with nothing at all.
>>64881808>Though the blunt force trauma should have caused far more deaths there.I haven't watched it but underestimating blunt force trauma is a major plot point in the book.
>>64882465That guy is just a retard who thinks a flail should be a death ray that instantly kills everyone it touches even through armor. There was plenty of effect from blunt force, including an important death.
>>64877435The helmets worn during the titular final duel were certainly ahistorical, fantastical even, but I'm willing to accept them on the basis of thematic artistic styling, something Ridley Scott used to be MUCH better at (Look no further than 1985's "Legend"). I see them as a take on the classic theatrical laughing & sobbing masks. What's more, the rest of the duel is so well done it's very easy to forget about the silly three quarters vertical split helmets. For that matter, all of the fights in the movie are exceptionally well done, this is one of less than a dozen movies I've seen that depicts armor as actually stopping sword blows cold and protecting it's wearer from harm. Another notable exception would be Roman Polanski's "Macbeth", a far greater film.Even further, In all fights except the final duel, most of the knights are wearing historically accurate open faced helmets, as would generally be worn by an experienced soldier on campaign. A perfect compromise between depicting a formidable and realistic medieval knight, and making sure to clearly show Matt Damon's face on camera. I wish Ridley would have continued this trend through the end of the movie, or had them wearing elaborate tournament headdresses on their helms (pic related, Terry Gilliam's "Jabberwocky" also a far superior film, although it goes in the complete opposite direction by having the black knight messily cleave his fully armored opponent in half with a battle axe, but that's played for comedic/dramatic effect and his own armor later does an excellent job of protecting him from the eponymous monster, until it bashes him off a cliff.) Or just put them in full face jousting helmets and then have them get knocked off which he does anyway with the comic mask helmets.The armored fighting in The Last Duel is very good, the real problem with the film is setting it up as a medieval Rashamon and then using the title cards to declare one version of the story to be unequivocally true...
>>64882569Cont.: ...From a cinematic standpoint it's much less satisfying than leaving the audience to ponder for themselves the true nature, honesty, and duplicity of the characters. And it's hamfisted and redundant, we don't need Ridley Scott to confirm for us that Marguerite was raped, God tells us she was when he empowers Carrouges to slam a dagger down Le Gris's throat and win the duel.
Wearing armour that's actually made for defence instead of aesthetics is such a bitch move.
>>64865173uses a scene from a show that had abandoned all quality and consistency in the actions and motivations of it's characters seasons before, jewish humiliation rituals should not be used as an example of anything ever, other than pointing them out as such
>>64882478Anon, there is about 15 fucking hits with a mace as well as being slammed by horses among other things. It was the equivalent of being hit by one car after another. Even if you are likely to survive a few strikes what they were hit with should have turned their insides into pulp.
>>64880393>Arguing over muh favorite DND edition is peak faggotry.There's no argument. 1/A1/2E/3X are all acceptable games. 4e has zero (zero 000.0) defenders, and you're not going to find 5e fags on /k/, they're too busy writing adventures about drag show weddings.>>648801203.5 is 3e by definition, that's why it's called 3.5 and not 4e.
>>64880721Many countries in Europe abandoned cuirassiers as a formal troop type by the mid 18th century and even those who retained such units the cuirassis was often not worn in battle and treated more like ceremonial garb as it was heavy and mostly useless. In the 7 Years War the English had no formal heavy cavalry with their heaviest cavalry being classified as dragoons while the Spanish and Portuguese just had line cavalry as their heaviest designation.
>>64883564Both Spanish and Portuguese line infantry had armor as part of their regular kitBrits gave up on armored cavalry because their horses were as gimpy and inbred as they were by that point
>>64882569>Legend>Jabberwocky
>>64882995>3.5 is 3e by definitionIf that were true, it wouldn't need the .5It's sufficiently different (fixed) to get it's own number and can be readily differentiated from 3e.If what you wrote were true, we wouldn't even be talking about the difference.
The New GOT series actually represents this well. Aerion was stabbing Duncan and getting nothing more then light penetrating wounds where there tip could pass through the mail. Then Duncan scores a critical hit between Aerions leg and groin protection. They even mention the lance pushing Chain mail into his body because it shattered the mail.
>>64881808Blunt force literally kills Baelor
>>64883893if what you were saying was true every eratta and update would be its own edition. In games, updates are also given .x numbers but are still the same game. Stop being so autistic.
>>64883909The point is way more should have been killed with the knocks everyone was taking.
>>64885147Loads of people say they consider 3.5e superior, they always specify 3.5e because if they said 3e, you'd think they were retarded for liking the most broken edition that required a whole update.
>>64872671Someone never watched 300
>>64887574I hate how paladin works in 3.5e>get cucked with massive restrictions>receive nothing of value in return, may as well play as commoner with heavy armor and high BAB
>>64887796AD&D Paladin will always be best. True warrior of God.
>>648877963.0 was even worse. You got all features at level 1, the only thing that went up afterwards was the amount of Remove Disease per week.
>>64888142What the fuck were they thinking, did they balance classes thinking every PC rolls six 18s for stats?
>>64888707It was built for either point buy (which guarantees an 18 and 2 15s in 3/3.5, or "heroic" stat rolls using 4d6, reroll 1s, and then drop the lowest die. Multiple stats at 16-18 are normal using this system.
>>64888805>point buyBut point buy makes classes like monks or paladins even weaker.Warrior can go 18/14/16/8/8/8 and it will be a beast, in fact warrior doesn't give a fuck, you can go 18/8/8/8/8/8 and it will get a job done. paladin 18/10/10/10/10/10 literally doesn't function as a class. And all that "power" at a cost of your sanity, because every fucking GM considers existence of a fall mechanic as a fucking challenge to overcome. But yeah, rolling high str and charisma + decent con and wisdom will make it work somehow. But your average crpg will almost always use buy out system, I can only think of the Temple of the Elemental Evil as an outlier (and it was an excellent game)
>>64888707They didn't balance at all.
