old >>64847929There is literally not enough space on my kit to carry both 22 40mm grenades and a basic rifle load w/e frags, water, and medical. Help a poor PFC out.
>>64867567Bump limit ain't even hit yet.
>>64867567Use the bandoleer, anon. Use two. Be like my ancestor Captain Grip onboard the Fuckflower, famous scottish man-o-war that crashed in the gulf of america in 1685 and by a stroke of incredible events founded the first tex-mex restaurant desu.
>>64867597>Use the bandoleerI got a MOLLE 2 grenadier kit
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, things were UNEQUAL. I asked Hesco and they said the 4520 is discontinued. A2 made things go boom. Anon decided the FCC obeys God. Signal jammers are the devil. Anon's sweaty nuts are UNEQUAL.>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.16CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80 <44mm BFD):Budget: Hesco T212 or L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):Budget: Used Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^>Tactical Standalone (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum)Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)Elite: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P) or Hesco 4520^DND (M993)
Let's try something new:>THREAD PLAYLIST 1.00:1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo9xKdoS0HQ2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzErADi4rmg3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNUI4gp-DhM4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahnM_caAXn85. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KOS-dQ9wOw6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b8B58wi9Wc
>>64867567Grenade belts are the obvious solution. Failing that, I recall the bongs used to have these pouches that held 8 grenades in the space of a mag pouch, they should still be available from surp stores or I assume there's a domestic manufacturer that makes something similar. I imagine they never took off here because the grenades were loose inside the pouch, but you could get some elastic inserts made up. Or you could buy a Ukrainian VOG pouch, that hold a stack of them vertically in the same way smersh grenade pouches do, but molle on the back.
the meme belt has arrived. not a scam.they're charging westerners more now though. May not be a good deal anymore but idk how much the price hike is.
>>64867647It's got some STKSS, nice. Is it armored or is it just a war belt?
>>64867657Yeah removable soft armor insert May replace the inner belt with one of my own.
>>64867663Very neat. How much are they taking westerners for?Also, unrelated. Baganon, Neetmaster, turns out Ryan Reed is no longer employed with Hesco Armor. He left in 2017. He's the only guy at this point that would have the full details regarding the Hesco 4520. It's been so long I'm sure a lot of Hesco's staff has turned over since 2014 and records are probably shredded. He's currently the COO at Impact Innovations. Will try to track him down. Unless the situation changes drastically or I figure out the right people at Hesco I don't see good odds of getting some 4520s on the market. ATT Tactical has been unresponsive.Also emailed Safariland to see if I can get them to talk about the 2240. Since the 2230 is completely badass I'm hoping they'll reveal something about its even better successor, which appears only on the NIJ CPL with not one press release, piece of news, report, or anything.
>>64867709>How much are they taking westerners for?idk. Price increase not listed, just that they are. I paid $309 for all the bits and that includes $33 in shipping.
>>64867718Okay, that's not terrible. Equivalent from Jinwudun is $139 minus the STKSS, but that's B-grade Chinesium.
>>64867734Supposedly american made soft armor. Old price: 82 (belt)45 (cobra buckle) 130 (soft armor) 9 (suspenders) 10 (STKSS sticks) = 276Shipping was $33 Current: belt price unchanged. The rest (copy+pasted):▪ Buckle (2M | Cobra) — +0 | +$50▪ Insert (stiff non-ballistic | Dayneema armor) — +$15 | +$151▪ Suspenders — +$14▪ STKSS sticks (Crye Gen1-type) — +$14in hindsight I should have excluded the cobra buckle but I was in a rush and about to be offline for a week. Just told the guy "give me all the bells and whistles."
>>64867811better?
>>64867834
>>64867647this is that one from the Ukrainian video that did the rounds a month ago?
PURCHASE Gilliam 8002 to stop enemy black tips.
I tried to get my son into tactical gear but my wife took him away now he's in california getting turned into an octopus what do i do
>>64867567>tactical groin protector>doesn't protect groin
>>64867891It does if you're of the 8x10 persuasion. Get DMGear 10x12 XL to protect a true gentleman's wanger.
Who let op cook
>>64867891it's supposed to protect your pelvis more isn't it?for groin you'll want one of these
>>64867910why don't they make a rifle level version? it would not be that much thicker
>>64867855yeah the overedited one
>>64867915For the Militech version it'd be quite a lot thicker. DMGear's version lets you slide in a 10x12 plate or soft armor of your choice.Those nutshells are nearly a grand for a cup. ouch.
>>64867937it seems like every youtuber/online commentator glibly says >if they're wearing armor, just aim for the crotch, they can't fight with a shattered pelvis.so it seems to me that you should try and armor that if you can. obviously, you can't armor everything. but id like to have scalable armor. plus, i plan on doing most of my movements from my enduro if the big igloo ever goes down. so weight is not the greatest concern
>>64867945Here Jinwudun comes to save the day!>inb4 it's only IIIA!Put DMGEAR or Sabado crotch platebags on it, badabing.
>>64867973id rather die
>>64867945>>64867894>>64867891should also be stated that huge groin plates do inhibit your movement a fair amount, I have one that doesn't hang super low like the first militech example and it still can get in the way I figure it's good enough, also worth noting the weight if you're adding a hard plate and also trying to do side plates/soft armour etcassuming you're turtlemaxxing
>>64867734Speaking of Jinwudun, what about their plates? They do have testing videos up on their taobao page, wonder if anyone here has shot them before.
>>64867982I don't really notice that. Maybe if you mount a bunch of shit to them or have hard plates, but otherwise they don't really have the mass to be very obtrusive, they just sorta slap around as you move. which I guess is annoying, but its not an impediment.
>>64867871Get fresh new wife, impregnate, repeatedly. Life goes on, fren. There is no time for ragrettes.
>>64867862Checkmate. Nothing personal.
>>64867891>doesn't protect groinYeah, but he has a knife.
Put this >>64867910 under this >>64867894 just to protect from the UNEQUAL SLAP.
>>64867980That is my rec for you too.
>>64867982I have two L210s attached to a Jinwudun skirt. It's not really "in the way" (I have full leg movement and the skirt pads the L210s), there's just the weight. >>64868288Strictly second division. I went over them before. They seem to use cheap ceramic / PE and their plates are simultaneously heavy for their specs and produce high BFD. Also many arr cheat ringed.Buy used Protechs long before you entertain their plates.>>64868295My Jinwudun kilt pads things out, ot's honestly great.>>64867980Lame.>>64867862Wowzers, a round the 8002 will probably stop twenty of. It's good for .300 winmag Swiss P AP at least in one-off youtube testing. You can't beat it uncompromised with any known 5.56 unless you hammer it. For $314 a plate, great deal, just unproven still.Not bad deal though on A1.
>>64867613Where does the GWOT issue Ceradyne lvl IV (boron carbide?) plate rate? Asking for a friend.
>>64868525Which one? ESAPI, SOF ESAPI series, original 1997 Level IV-ish SAPI not to be confused with the lighter, weaker 1998 SAPI we all know and love, the BALCS or SPEAR or early TSA plates?Ceradyne was overall the best armor manufacturer of all time but struggled in their last few years with a delamination issue, and also their plates range a lot. Can be good but outdated, mid, or extremely, extremely good.
>>64868531The SOF issued plate.
>>64868552That narrows it down somewhat. SPEAR, BALCS, TSA, SOF ESAPI, or something really spicy like an MH3 CQB or if you want to get esoteric, AA4? A picture would be helpful, or description of the back label. Always edit out the serial number if you post a pic for OPSEC purposes.
>>64868531I forgot to add it would have been a BALCS or SFLCS era plate.
>>64868559Alright, so non-exhaustive list of suspects. Many of these are below Level IV but commonly mistaken for that.1. Basic SAPI, not Level IV. Sorta kinda not really a III+ because it's down on multi hit but does handle street threats (M193, M855). Not bad but dated.2. 1997 original SAPI. Basically worse proto-ESAPI. These are rare.3. ISAPI, heavier 4.5lb SAPI that adds BZ API. Rare but okay. Dated versus a PBZ SA but newer variants (REV. E / F) are comparable to the new LSAPI.4. Ceradyne 83608. Double hit Level IV at 5.1lb Swimmer M, second gen TSA under SPEAR program. Really good, example of a higher end plate.5. Ceradyne 93765, this is the second gen BALCS plate that shows up frequently. Much more common than the TSA. Double hit 7.62x51mm M61 AP at 5.3lb ICW IIIA. Noticeably worse than the above TSA.6. Ceradyne SOF ESAPI series. Special plates made because SOCOM asked for a better BALCS plate. Super expensive, super rare ESAPI variant that needs IIIA, is thinner and lighter, lacks drop foam, but has extreme multi hit. SOF ESAPI Mk. IIB is apparently good for ten 7.62x39mm BZ API, second highest of any known non-LIBA plate. Basic ESAPIs to this day are rated for three. 7. MSAPIs, super thin no drop BZ API plates. These are mid, not IV, and predate the LTC 28720.8. MH3 CQB. Super good 4.2lb ICW IIIA plate rated for 10x M995, several BZ API, M80, etc. Also good for M61 AP and M2AP but BFD runs hot over 44mm. No foam.9. AA4 series. Suspected zylon-backed flagship plates. Absurdly good specs but paper (Swiss P AP at 4.68lb SAPI M) but not to be trusted.
>>64867811That's what happens when you have long term generals. Eventually people run out of things to post about, autists shit it up with their nonsense spam, or it becomes off topic/low quality.
>>64868579No it's because op didn't cook and should have made an AI magazine pic.
>>64868579>>64868583Oh and I can't forget, or genuinely mentally ill people repost the same things over and over again. This bullshit is happening all over 4chan now. I see people "ritual posting" in every thread for 3 years straight.
>>64868559>BALCSAre these still valid or have they been superseded?
>>64868592>repost the same things over and over againMaybe this site doesn't rate higher effort? It's a weird 'the cause is the effect is the cause' vicious cycle.
>>64868593The last BALCS plates were made around 2013-2014, LTC 28575 and BAE 129768. Multi-hit Level IV at 5.28lb SAPI M or whereabouts, ICW IIIA.LTC isn't as good as a plate manufacturer as Ceradyne was in their prime. The 129760 and 28575 are barely lighter than a REV. J ESAPI and considerably less robust. No known M995 capability.There was a GEN-V BALCS plate but it was never issued. Made by LTC, projected 4.8lb ICW IIIA, so it's comparable directly with the Hesco 4800LV but much more robust. A shame. GEN-6 today would have been excellent, but M2AP doesn't live in the sandbox so I get why SOCOM dropped that level.
>>64868592wtf is ritual posting does it cure ED?
>>64868611Reposting the same thing every single thread for years, not skipping a single thread.>does it cure EDif anything it causes ED.
>>64868617You seem terminally online.
>>64868609>BALCS platesI guess I was thinking the carriers.https://www.beezcombatsystems.com/collections/balcs-carriers
>>64868624Archives retard, it takes 5 seconds to click on page 8 and check the date.
>>64868635Those are solid, especially for running modern ICW plates like the SAPI family or just running soft armor behind standalone to enhance overall coverage and shore up protection.
Just food for thought. A REV. B XSAPI is tested to defeat 3x 7.62x51mm M993 at up to 3,100ft/s ICW milspec soft armor, which is roughly similar to IIA but with a frag requirement. When Buffman backed a REV. B XSAPI with shitty offbrand unpressed PE IIIA from CHINA, it stopped 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP (a harder threat) in said soft armor, which is fine but shows the difference between milspec and the heavier IIIA backer made the difference. Round would have likely penned if regular milspec was used.For ICW plates, it is perfectly acceptable for a round to penetrate the plate completely but stop in the soft armor provided BFD is under the limit.Point of this is that choice of soft armor makes a huge difference, and in theory running it even behind standalone plates can up protection.
>>64868653Exactly what I'm after. A soft IIIA under plate.
>>64868718>soft IIIA under plateLike this.
>>64868718Benefit of the Beez BALCS business is that most of them can readily accept side plates, neck armor, deltoid armor, and abdominal / crotch, so you can scale up or down depending on the situation.Also worth noting (I'm splitting hairs here), the soft armor of an ICW plate functions as basically delaminated backer. It is always less efficient than the equivalent standalone solution. Contrast LTC 28720 vs 28780, or Midwest Venture FM4 versus ESAPI REV. E.
>>64868740I don't like Pinnacle Armor and I think everybody involved with the Dragonskin stuff has things to atone for, but I sure do like their extended NIJ system they had in 2002.The "classified" (lol) Level V velocities are 2,650ft/s for BS-40, 4,000ft/s for M948, 3,050+-50 for M993, 3,350+-50 for M995. This was a ridiculously nebulous rating (Adept Colossus only stops M948 50% of the time and might be sketchy on BS-40 due to core mass) and the SOV-4000 vest actually rated for these threats was like 50lb with full BALCS-style coverage.
MJOLNER's back with the fake ass 4.4lb IV+ plate again. https://www.mjolnersystems.com/body-protection
>>64868329>$700 for a battle loadout worth of ammoguess ill stick to green tip for now
>>64869044Only way to really get M855A1 economically is to get it fresh off the truck. These dealers are marking up because they know there's a tactical timmy out there somewhere who's gonna open a third credit card and overdraw it cuz he needs his fix and to flex for the 'gram.
>>64868677>ICW milspec soft armor, which is roughly similar to IIA but with a frag requirementThe frag requirement is really tough, and most lightweight IIIA armor wouldn't meet it. That's why milspec soft armor is WAY heavier than shit like the Hardwire 68 IIIA or Point Blank Alpha Elite IIIA.>>64868968I simply don't understand this grift.
>>64869068>fresh off the truck>translation == stolen army stocksGood luck showing your provenance "chain-of-custody" at that trial.
>>64869218>milspec soft armorIt's also often aramid because early PE is temp-sensitive to car trunks in Texas and is therefore unsuitable for the sandbox. For purposes of a plate backer good IIIA is superior, because the plate should be doing the job of breaking high velocity fragments and what not, the backer's role is to catch what's left. You can get IIIA+frag panels if you really like.Hardwire 68 is also super top shelf really expensive UHMWPE, second best in the world. It'd be equivalent to LTC busting their ass and making a Level IV version of the 28570 for ~4.8lb SAPI M, to put it in plate terms.>The griftThey're either going to screw investors over and catch the Black Lagoon trading co back to Bangkok or it's a front.>>64869239M855A1 is always hot. It's not supposed to be released for civie sales. Same deal with mil SAPI family plates. Enforcement is just laxer than it used to be.
>>64869300Yeah, but even today milspec soft armor is a lot heavier than Hardwire 68, like around 50% heavier, because of the standalone frag requirement. > They're either going to screw investors over and catch the Black Lagoon trading co back to Bangkok or it's a front.A front for what, though? You know what I think? It's AI psychosis. The whole website is made with AI text + images, and there's a silly picture of a carbon nanotube somewhere. Some retard probably asked ChatGPT 4o Free Tier to "design the ultimate hard armor" and got taken for a ride when it said "Certainly! If you take carbon nanotubes and use them for the backer, and add them into your ceramic, you can make an aluminum oxide Level IV plate at 4.4 pounds for SAPI M and full coverage! Here's how!"It's painfully retarded, but some moron actually fell for it, and others might also fall for it.
>>64869410>Yeah, but even today milspec soft armor is a lot heavier than Hardwire 68, like around 50% heavier, because of the standalone frag requirement.Also because it fits a tighter conditioning requirement. Hardwire-68 will likely bomb contact shots because it's still somewhat temp sensitive, which is actually a huge unreported issue with PE soft armor.Milfrag soft armor also lacks defeat against higher velocity 9x19mm, .357 SIG, .357 Magnum, and .44 Magnum. While it can probably stop .44, BFD will run hot over 44mm which is a fail and risks more BABT. So they're sidegrades.I do find it telling the "SOCOM Deluxe" plates like the SOF ESAPI series and MH3 CQB demand IIIA while milspec ESAPI and BALCS plates from the period skirt with milspec, and those two plates are down on drop foam and other indicia of robustness for the sole purpose of saving weight / thickness so it can be spent on enhancing ballistic properties.>Speaking of, we've seen an SOF ESAPI MK.IIB but never a II or I. Is there a III?>A front for what, though?I dunno, drugs? Honestly there's too many fish in the armor pool and not enough food to go around. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the Chinese white label fuckfuck shops are fronting. Rook is also suspect. 6lb .50 BMG stopping M993 plate my ass that's better than the AA4UP on the old guide.>It's painfully retarded, but some moron actually fell for it, and others might also fall for it.Well they have two industry partners that also fell for it. It's like bootleg Diamond Age except with even more promises and even less delivering.
>>64869300>not supposed to be released for civie sales.>>64868329
>>64869475They uh, "found" it. Catalyst Surplus is selling VTP ESAPIs that they also found. You can find a signal jammer on the side of the road and it's totally legal as long as you never turn it on. There were like fifteen LA-12 dazzlers on fleabay six months ago. They were found in a box! Cheap!Enforcement is super lax, which makes M855A1 rated plates all the more important. Buy some ESAPIs some dude just found! They're "surplus" from the truck.
>>64869455Rook is funny because their own test reports make them look retarded. But, nah, seriously. Mjolner is pure AI psychosis from top to bottom. The Chinese have their own thing going and don't need this kind of weird grift. Diamond Age actually did plausible research and it looks like some of it made it into products that you can buy. Mjolner is just. . . I don't know what to say, really. It's pure insanity and chaos. I've seen similar instances of AI psychosis in other industries, and this is what it looks like.
>>64869544>RookCheat rings!>Diamond Age actually did plausible research and it looks like some of it made it into products that you can buy.I want the damn half-inch 2.2lb polycrystalline diamond M855 plate Jake.The issue is that SiC-TiB2 is an Adept thing and the stuff Diamond Age was working on, before they rebranded, mogs the shit out of what was actually realized with Adept. Diamond Age's plates genuinely gave even high-end Ceradynes a run for their money - on paper. The N1, on paper, beats the Adept Archon badly, and even frags both the 4800 and CXP-800 SA, but your point stands that they definitely did some research.Also, fun fact, they DID attempt a polycrystalline diamond Colossus. 10% more effective but 10x more expensive for the strike face, so ~5.85lb multi hit Swiss P AP stopper for probably $3k a set assuming no changes to the PE backer. Adept's PE kinda sucks honestly so weight could come down if they used HB210-HB212 Dyneema or 6000 series Spectra. Too much anyways for the market Adept is gunning for.>Mjolner is pure AI psychosis from top to bottom. Either way, it reminds me of Bourque Industries and their Kryron Terminator turbo-multi hit XSAPI that never showed up, or that Exote titanium carbide business. Big promises, no delivery.>The Chinese have their own thing goingDid you see they're making Zylon-F now? Allegedly UV-stabilized. Watch out for zylon's return in the future.>Pure chaosSounds like drugs to me.
>>64869604>Either way, it reminds me of Bourque Industries and their Kryron Terminator turbo-multi hit XSAPI that never showed up, or that Exote titanium carbide business. Big promises, no delivery.The truly crazy thing is that they're basically claiming to use the materials everybody else is already using. 4.7 pound edge-to-edge aluminum oxide plates, lmaoEven as a grift, this sort of makes no sense?Think about it, they could just as easily say "we use hyper-turbo Exote+ titanium carbide"! But apparently that's too much work?It'll be interesting to see what happens with these guys. I'm betting they take investor money and run, like you said.
>>64869517>You can find a signal jammer on the side of the road and it's totally legal as long as you never turn it on.Wouldn't this be like sighting Bigfoot and not raping her?
>>64869635Yeah, so if they're using 99.7% Bitossi Alumina like everybody else ("Hypure" as RMA calls it) then the huge weight reduction has to come from the backer or an intermediate layer which is their secret sauce. Hyperion tried to pull a heist with the latter, since they claimed bullshit like a thirty-hit B-32M stopper for 8lb because of a titanium superalloy they used as a crack arrestor / backup strike face, or a 4.7lb 20-hit BZ API plate, or an 8.5lb TITAN-6 .50 BMG tungsten AP stopper. Titanium!>we use hyper-turbo Exote+ titanium carbide"! But apparently that's too much work?Think what they're gunning for is to try and look like they're about to rape the market. If they're getting those results with Alumina then they can DESTROY the 4403, 1155 G2, 4S17M, etc. Totally dominate the bottom end.>>64869651nani
>>64869681But think about it for a minute. If you look at Buffman's teardowns, the average Al2O3 strike-face in a Level IV plate is 0.4", which is 10mm. (The 1165 and 4SAS4 are both almost exactly 0.4".) That alumina ceramic tile by itself should weigh nearly 5 pounds! Even the L210, which is very far from a Level IV plate, has a 7mm-thick ceramic layer.There's no way to do what they're claiming. If you use a conventionally-thick ceramic strike-face, you're already over the marketed weight. If you go much thinner, you end up with something that's surely inferior to the L210, which is lightyears away from a decent Level IV.These guys just have a picture of a nanotube, renderings, and crazy claims. It's psychosis, 100%.
>>64870100I figured out a way to do it, and it requires a combination of cheat rings and nominal sizing admissible by a loophole in NIJ 0101.06 7.6.1. Note, they're saying SAPI M and full coverage so this is bunk (for now), I'm just saying there is a way under NIJ to weasel this and it could totally be what they do after some stealth-editing.>The armor manufacturer shall define the acceptable minimum shot-to-edge distance for each armor model and each threat that will be tested against the armor. For armor types subjected to a single threat and for the lighter weight threat round when two threats are specified, the minimum shot-to-edge distance shall not be greater than 51 mm (2.0 in)...The above is the NIJ rule that permits cheat rings. For a 10x12 plate, you can only provide 6x8 protection and that's fine. Here's the kicker. The NIJ doesn't require that the plate actually measures 10x12, never has. 10x12 is just an industry invention. Level IV is a single hit requirement, so you can technically submit a plate of any size since strike face area is irrelevant.1. Make the plate smaller, you get less weight. 2. Then add a roughly 2" cheat ring, you get less weight. 3. Furthermore, do what RMA and Highcom do and cut out the bottom corners like you do the top, less weight.So I'll start with a 7.2lb not-10x12 4S17M, which measures 9.25x11.5" or whereabouts with bottom corner cutouts. I drop it to 9x11" flat. That gets me to 6.7lb. I then add a cheat ring just under 2" wide, so the plate only provides 5x7" protection like a Protech speed plate from 2003. I am at 2.8lb. I have created a perfectly NIJ-compliant Level IV plate using basic bitch materials, it costs probably forty bucks a plate, and weighs under three pounds. This is fine under NIJ 0101.06 and the plate is readily certifiable because Level IV plates have literally no multi-hit requirement and are allowed to fail any of the lower levels.
the only thing ive learned from these threads is that armor is a fuck
>>64870520yeah
>>64870520>the only thing ive learnedOh, there's more gold to be had.
Guy on tacswap is selling velsys APIBZ plates for 1k a set. Is this how much they usually go for?
>>64868578I believe it's #6 in your list. Ceradyne. Hard black. Relatively thin. It almost sings with a resonate tone when you slide your finger over it, something like fine crystal. I am told it is lvl IV good for 3 shots of M2 30-06 black tip AP within 3 inches of each other. I am also told the standard issue ESAPI is only rated for 3 shots 6 inches apart.
>>64871580The bottom ones are size small PBZSAs, if you're a small dude that's a great price. Normal rate for a medium set is $2.2k. The ones up top are the PBZ ICW version that demands good IIIA soft armor behind it, this is a much older model first released in 2010. PBZSA is from 2015.>>64871603The SOF ESAPI returns, by the sounds of it. Your shot spacing on regular ESAPI is correct for all threats except M2AP. Minimum 5" max 6". Compare with NIJ at 2" min for all threats and 4.7" for VPAM. A basic REV.A through E ESAPI only needs to eat M2AP 1.6 times (60% chance on 2), you don't get 3x M2AP stoppage until REV. G.SOF ESAPIs have much beefier crack arrestors and therefore have excellent multi bad. Bad news is they're down on drop foam, need IIIA, and unlike REV.G onward are not rated for M995.
>>64871664>multi bad*Multi hit, mobile keyboard is ass
>>64871664>The bottom ones are size small PBZSAsWouldn't these make for awesome dick armor, stipulating some men are larger than others?
>>64871580Just buy them. You may have a friend someday. Or might rescue a petite drug addict qt.
>>64871718They wouldn't fit in a Sabado but you could fit them in a DMGEAR XL if you padded the sides and bottom since it's sized for a 10x12.>>64871721Give the druggie the PBZ-ICWs, they're kinda mid so it's less likely she'll sell them for a fix. They're relatively chumped on paper by the LTC 28720, which runs hot on M80 BFD but is lighter and can skirt with Level II soft versus IIIA.
i figur out how to piss in shidd in full kit, wear compression shorts but cut pp hole and booty hole so you can bathrom whil standing no pants
>>64871736>chumped on paper by the LTC 28720>$2800/ea vs. $2000They should be.
>>64871739Post infographic.
>>64871749>tfw he fell for Apex's price-gougingActual price on a pair of LTC 28720s is $1,726. He's overcharging by over a grand. He's charging three times the actual vendor price on the 28711 side plates. He's charging $750 a plate for fiberglass backed hot-pressed boron carbide basically straight out of 1971.The worst part is that he's charging $4,600 for a pair of LTC 28791s that still lose to the PBZSA.
>>64871751I think he's a Jinwudun salesman.
I am waiting patiently for the GEN-6 TSA.
>>64871815Now that's what I call guerilla marketing
>>64872769I mean the theory is sound unless you're not cool with stanky ass on the battlefield. I got a hunch the Jinwudun skirt ain't a seller, probably because you CAN'T SHIT OR PISS WITH IT ON. FUCK.
>>64872788>CAN'T SHIT OR PISS WITH IT ON. FUCK.Product killer.
>>64872834Yeah I haven't worked out a way to economically piss unless I hold the front up with one hand, undo my fly, and use the force to aim so my highly acidic monster energy urine doesn't ruin the UHMWPE. Shitting is impossible. It's meant to go under your PC if you use the suspenders, so you have to take everything off just to drop a log then put it back on. In all out urban warfare, it's so bulky as a part of full kit you gotta use the handicap stall. I don't have laser activated claymores to defend myself while vulnerable in the movements towards and from a state of tactical shitting in bathrooms in built up areas.Philly trash sniper needs to cover me with a 240 Bravo just to shit. IMHO, they need a one piece better version that attaches to a vest via STKSS or similar and transfers weight to hips while opening from the front so you can flop and up on the back of a shitter.
>>64872855Why not just take it off for a minute? Carrier has tubes, right? It wouldn't even take ten seconds, and it'd give you a bit of a breather.
What kind of socks do you guys wear? Are there any nice cooling/breathable material for wearing under boots? Would be in slightly warmer weather.
>>64872925A minute is too long. For that entire minute... I am vulnerable. A samurai who bought a IIIA skirt from the Chinese can never give the enemy such opportunity.
Ghost of Fishtown schizo
>>64872934>For that entire minute... I am vulnerable. Agreed. Imagine getting droned up your rectum with your skirt off. I would die from humiliation. >A samurai who bought a IIIA skirt from the Chinese can never give the enemy such opportunity.Picrel, brother.
>>64872930Wool, 365. Darn Tough have been beating out my Smartwools and REIs in that order during my 9 yrs test. My Balegas are a comfy player. 1/4 socks in warm weather. Say goodby to changing socks daily.
>>64873056This happens to Jinwudun's best customers daily, the Russians. Ukrainian drones catch them in the midst of passion and steamy orc oral. The skirt drapes uselessly on the cold dirt floor of a shitty blown out barn. As the pooper is stretched and the aids unleashed, hohol drone flies in of ass and the eyebrow is raised but one more time as the drone xplodes l0l0l0l0l0l xd :).
>>64873093that's okay they have plate direct from aliexpres overnight express 24 hour very bnest saar the offer
I have no money for this shit. goodbye
>>64873323my final message
>>64873323Sad day when the modern /pfg/ version of gq loses a member's member. See you next payday.
>>64873378Heh, heh, you said member.
I need it...
>>64872930Danish endurance. Wool. >>64873065Stank ass feet.>>64873500>not armorIrrelevant.
>>64873564>Stank ass feet.NTA but you can wear Darn Tough socks for 4 days straight and it doesn't stink. I would do that for work in the hot summer rolling full leather boots with no issue.
>>64873564well actually I was thinking about putting these under the stank ass feet so id impose on people
>>64873564>Danish endurance. Wool.Almost everything on their site I see is either generic running stuff or cold weather gear
>>64873572Heresy. The standard is one per day minimum, depending on condition. I can’t imagine 4 days of stank ass feet would be like.>>64873580Look harder. Their website is admittedly not great. You specifically need to go into the sock portal. Das ist der einzige Weg, ja?
>>64873660>I can’t imagine 4 days of stank ass feet would be like.Just air them out at night and they're fine desu
>>64873660My red wing socks would start to stink after 2 days Darn tough is good for almost a whole week. Merino wool is built different. Only downside is they are thin and don't full a wide boot as well or at least the ones I got. Better for modern textile boots.
>>64873666>>64873673Straight to jail. You guys could both the poster children for arm n hammer commercials. Why socks though? They’re light and don’t take up much space as is
>>64873767At $30 per pair of socks I'm getting my moneys worth. I usually would do 2 days a week per pair. Like I said it was for work not hiking and I just wanted to see how long they would go before getting gross. Very impressed.
sock fetish gq coomers
>>64873864I will not lie to you, every 2 days a week I boiked the socks for 4 minutes and made my coworkers delicious foot salt tea. Very hydrating. I attemlted to commercialize my product but the health inspector gagfed and died from my Kombucha.
>>64873564>Stank ass feet.This is an untrue statement.>>64873572>NTA but you can wear Darn Tough socks for 4 days straight and it doesn't stink.This is a true staement. I am that anon and 3-4 days is just fine for the antimicrobial properties of wool on feet in shoes. My first year was in sandles 365 and that could easily go 5 days.>inb4 socks with sandlesYes, summer and winter, in the snow, too. I am sold on wool for a base layer toes up. I will add my alpaca wool socks were a fail. Do not rec.
>>64873500>>64873564>Irrelevant>sex toys are not /gq/You have to be trolling.
>>64872930Asolo NSX in 3 different weights. Red/black are winter hikers, grey/black are general purpose hiking socks and all black ones that go just above ankle are for casual wear.Merino wool, silver treated polypropylene (silprox), some polyamide for toughness and a trace of elastane. Great product, good moisture transport, quick drying, good loft, warm, very durable. Have 2 pairs I bought around 2009, walked ~5 to 7 thousand kms in them while wearing jackboots in my previous job and they still have no holes and work, even though they lack the loft and got heavily felted. Probably only available in Yurop though.
>>64871664Thanks. Are you saying they are only lvl IV if ICW IIIA soft armor? What do you mean down on drop foam? I would assume any plate should not be dropped on a concrete surface.M995. Good note. But unlikely to be seen in the wild, especially in the CONUS.
>>64874365I’d normally challenge you to post feet, but we both know you won’t cuz they stank ass feet.>>64874368>sex toys This is why I’m buying a p90.
>>64874554>only Level IV if ICW IIIACorrect. Regular ESAPIs are "soft ICW" and can stop several rated threats standalone, but are not intended to be worn standalone and need soft armor for BFD reduction and worst-case insurance. SOF ESAPIs (which are ESAPIs in name only) are hard-ICW and need IIIA in order to catch fragments which pen the plate because it's light on backer. There are three flavors of ICW, soft (BFD reduction, bullet stops in plate completely), hard (projectiles allowed to pen plate but get caught in soft armor), and double (ICW two things for both purposes, rare outside of Russia / Ukraine). >What do you mean down on drop foam?Regular ESAPIs pass military first article testing and other requirements which include substantial drop and durability testing. They have either drop foam or another form of drop protection. While they're regularly x-rayed and inspected they are very resilient. SOF ESAPIs are only rated to NIJ 0101.04 and are NOT required to pass a drop test, unlike modern 0101.06. You must x-ray them to ensure they're functional because they have no foam in front of the strike face.>I would assumeSimilar analysis to ICW. There are hard no foam no drop like the RMA 1165 GEN2, Highcom 4S16, 4SAS4, 4SAS7, Protech X-CAL LP, and most 0101.04 plates like the SOF ESAPI, then soft "light drop" like the Hesco 4800 which have protection but not enough for modern standards, then 0101.07 single drop and then finally 0101.06 double drop or milspec conditioning as the most preferable.>But unlikely to be seen in the wildSure. Possible, but not probable... for now. The issue is that because it uses a pure B4C strike face, unlike REV. G onward B4C-SiC, it is subject to WC amorphization and any serious tungsten core threat will fuck it up even at extended range. M993 will be brutally effective, ditto for Swiss P AP. With B4C-SiC you don't have as much required standoff.
>>64874584>buying a p90Bayo mount when?
>>64874584>challenge youI'm not afraid of you.
>>64875453There is a lug stl. Now what’s better? Clamping plastic to a moving barrel or clamping plastic to a tri-rail? >>64875481Stank ass feet and cant tie shoes. I’m not surprised. You’ve left me disappointed. I fully expected crocks n’ socks.
>been doing all of my NVG stuff with a bridged PVS14 and a thermal for a few years now>only dude in the group with NVGs at all>new coworker has NODs and wants to go shooting with me>try out his duals last night, never looked through duals before>immediately understand why people want duals so badlyI'm going to stick to my bridged set up because I do a lot more with them than just shooting and the extra capability is really nice but God damn does having duals make shooting and walking in the woods 100X easier
>>64875504>cant tie shoesShoestrings are so 1800s, what are you 120?. Get with it, gramps.
>>64875707Is the meta duals and a thermal mono?
>>64869044
>>64876354>6+1weak as fuck 18+3 fool. Dual Condor MA33 plus one in gun and one in redimag and one in stock pouch from 2007.
>>64876354>>64876447Ive got space for 6 on my placard, elastic for 4 more on my cummerbund, 1 on my belt then I have a knock off JSTA and Mutant on my cummerbund that can do a 12th 30 rounder and 4 60 roundersso about 20+1 if I decided to get retarded with it
Safariland. Will a TLR7 fit into a TLR1 holster? They don't make a 6 series in my gun with the tlr7.
>>64876484Would you please cover this in python skin like a normal person?
Pants is gear, can anyone recommend tan/desert (camo optional) pants, <$100, with at least two of these features? Rip-stop, knee pad inserts, fire resistant?
>>64876999Helikon tex and Lapg
>>64876999Heads up knee pad inserts suck. Very sweaty
>>64876999You just missed out on the Kuiu Pro Pants 40% off President's Day sale. Check Kuiu if you can get in under the wire. >$130Kick in next weeks 30pack.
>>64877029Already looking at LAPG, Helikon is new.Owned any yourself?>>64877033Shit, time to find some arc'tyx knock-offs then.>>64877052God bless presidents day pants sales.
>>64877052>under the wire.>>$130$113. I'm too nice. https://www.kuiu.com/products/pro-pant-valo-camouflage
>>64877068I own a pair of LAPG rip stop pants and they are tough as nails but run too hot for my climate most of the year. Helikon is supposed to be the shit for pants competing with pants at twice its cost. I plan to get a pair soon because I need pants for hot weather and their OTP according to my research is very good for that. I went with arcteryx knee pads after no liking the internal ones and have nothing to complain about. They work so well. I haven't used the knockoffs but I'm sure they work fine probably just as well.
Can anyone ID this helmet cover and counterweight pouch? I rather like them. For the record I did email the company who makes the battery holder which is where the picture is from, they never responded.
>>64877439Looks like it has a cursed Agilite logo on it. Is it theirs, or are they the battery holder guys?
>>64877478Oh goddamn it that's exactly who I was hoping it (((wasn't))) but every single time and all that. Anyone want to recommend me a similar alternative? I'm looking for a very "simple" cover that has the elastic bands running from the shroud to the rear.
>>64877485>very "simple" coverIs di beond you? If you cannot sew, fucking glue your seems and stop being helpless consumer.
>>64867891It does if you wear it with a full cut carrier like an IOTV instead of a puny PC.
>>64877033The Crye inserts are great. I prefer them over my dead bird knee pads.
New tiny ass mini thermal on the market. Virgo S2. Bad sensor (256x192), rest of specs are mid. Delay, awful battery life (2h). Can be helmet mounted.https://www.specprecision.com/night-vision/specprecision-virgo-s2-mini-thermal-scope.html?
>>64877689The problem with inserts is that they absolutely destroy your $300 pants if you use them enough. In the field, in harsh conditions, this could happen in as little as a week.
>>64877068LAPG pants are nice for the money, ive owned probably a half dozen pairs over 10 years.>>64876484No>>64876286>Binos and a handheld thermalAlways has been>>64873500Good handles but rip thing a memeLop that offLop the back 1/3 strikeface offWait a second, just make it from some tubular steel and concrete for like 1/3 that money
>>64877833destroy how exactly?
>>64877907The top/bottom edge of the kneepad area will peel against the pants and rip the kneepad area. Really big issue on G2, lesser on g3, even less on g4. Go look at any number of gwot photos and look for dude with single crye kneepad, taped crye kneepad or ripped kneepad.
>>64877838Man I love when the plate is heavier than advertised, smaller than advertised, thicker than advertised, skips the drop test, and still runs over 44mm BFD on shot #2. In other news, Longfri is also apparently the OEM for Shellback's 4SICMH plate that commonly gets mistaken for being a Highcom. 5.7lb / 0.9" thick, $350 a plate. Seems to be a more premium version of what's in that brochure. "Ken" at Shellback ghosted a dude in 2022 when actually asked for the report so I assume it's like pic rel and has issues.Shellback also carries a new "L410" plate which sounds like a desperado Hesco model but physically resembles an old .04 swimmer-cut Level IV from LTC. $400/set but 8.1lb single curve swimmer which is ass.https://www.shellbacktactical.com/shellback-tactical-prevail-series-level-iv-10-x-12-swimmers-cut-hard-armor-plate-model-l410/Lastly in Longfri news, they also seem to be the OEM for the TitanXP Level IV, which is 8.5lb, 0.95" thick, 10x12, single curve, but $200/set which is unheard of in this economy.https://shop.tacticalshit.com/titan-xp-level-iv-ceramic-plates-shooter-cut-10x12-made-in-usa(don't buy from tacticalshit they fucking suck)
Does anyone but me ever come across gear-related posts on old forums that age like milk?>Colossus is mystery meat>hard pass>buy 4.5lb Shotstop Duritium Level IV instead!
>>64878515The really glaring issue is that the Shotstop cheat-ring problem should have been obvious even then. Does anybody else remember those old videos where somebody put a box cutter through the plate at about 1" from the edge?
>>64878546>>64878515Man I could have sworn I had saved it as a webm. Oh well, can't find it now. Here's a different webm, also fuck ShotStop scammers.
>>64878546>should have been obvious even then.We're admittedly looking at things from a position of hindsight, and frankly there's a LOT of fucking shit that should have been obvious years ago that people fell for. That's why I'm so hesitant on new things, because yesterday's bullshit was once today's new super amazing product.However, 4.5lb is completely bogus for a Level IV plate and even working off of areal density that should have been obvious. The Hesco 4800 is 4.9lb for a 10x12 and, despite being a few years old, remains the prime example of a boron carbide + Honeywell Spectra Level IV that prioritizes low weight over robustness. Technology has only improved at a snail's pace. You cannot go below it using the same materials without running into issues, whether that be reliability, drop protection, actual coverage, so on and so forth.Granted, LTC could PROBABLY come up with a 4.5lb no-strings-attached Level IV about as robust as the 4800 (so not great) but it would cost $3.5k a set easy. Basically a beefed up GEN-6 TSA. It is physically impossible for Shitstop to have pulled that.Also, pic rel, wtf was this guy smoking?>The Adept Colossus' NIJ cert will be out before the Hesco 3811... in 2022.>3811 releases.>3811 gets certified>Colossus never got certified.Allegedly straight from Jake Ganor at Adept.
>>64878632> 4.5lb is completely bogus for a Level IV plate> LTC could PROBABLY come up with a 4.5lb no-strings-attached Level IV Which is it? > Basically a beefed up GEN-6 TSA.Isn't the GEN-6 TSA already heavier than that, and pretty far from Level IV?
>>64878660>Technology has only improved at a snail's pace>the same materialsThe 4800 has been around since 2020, and uses commercial boron carbide plus Honeywell Spectra. Since 2020, Spectra has improved to the point where all-PE plates can now stop M855 by themselves and weigh 4lb or less (conditioning issues aside), and also competing Dyneema UHMWPE has enabled LTC's TSAs to go from 4.95lb SAPI M (28595) to 4.6lb SAPI M (28570) to a projected 4.2lb SAPI M with the GEN-6 TSA. This is supported by the fact the very new LTC LSAPI is 0.65lb lighter than the VS PBZSA, a contemporary to the 28791, and the only distinction is raising the BFD limit from 44mm to 62mm, and said LSAPI is literally only $900 a plate so there are serious chips left on the table here.There's, with most guys, a ~0.5lb weight difference between B-32 API plates like the TSA series and actual legit Level IV using identical materials. 4.7lb SAPI M / 4.5lb 10x12 for the hypothetical "LTC 26880" (totally made up model #). >and pretty far from Level IV?Sorta-kinda. M2AP at NIJ spec velocity will beat TSAs like the 28595 that are rated for B-32 API. B-32 is between M61 AP and M2AP in the pic related table, and for Ceradyne in 2004 the difference is only 0.3lb between those two, so B-32 would be like 0.12lb or so lighter than M2AP, so it's possible if LTC really busted their ass they could get the 26880 below 4.5lb.This probably isn't done for three reasons.1. M2AP isn't a realistic threat OCONUS so SOCOM sees no purpose in protecting against it. It proxies for literally no Russian or PLA round. They're all either below it or above it.2. Cost. More boron carbide because of a thicker strike face.3. Boron carbide amorphization means said plate will still get its ass beat by tungsten core rounds. If you want protection above B-32 API OCONUS you really have to go whole-hog and switch to a heavier, likely SiC or doped SiC 7N37-rated plate.
>>64878718>projected 4.2lb SAPI M with the GEN-6 TSAIs there any proof of this? > If you want protection above B-32 API OCONUS you really have to go whole-hog and switch to a heavier, likely SiC or doped SiC 7N37-rated plate.7N37 is rare af. The dominant threat is now advanced steel-core like 7N40/7N41. Actually M2AP isn't a bad proxy for that.
Also, horrible picture, but the BAE Eclipse MSAP from like 2011 was 3.9lb ICW IIIA and ostensibly rated for M2AP. Strict no-drop and strict single-strike, but it's clearly doable.With a SAPI M backer of Hardwire-57, the lightest white-side PE IIIA in the world, I'm getting 4.34lb, so we're already under the 4.5lb number but with massive tradeoffs using a mix of 2011 and current tech. Use better non-commercial B4C (something LTC can't because they don't make their own strike faces) and there is still performance on the table.Nonetheless, weight floor for everybody but the heavy hitters (Ceradyne - RIP, BAE, Tencate) is probably 4.9lb. Adept was supposed to have a 4.5b Level IV at some point but that apparently got canned. Militech has a 4.5lb boron carbide IV on special order but it's $500 a pop, heavy cheat ringed, and strict no drop with crappy multi-hit, so like the shotstop basically. LTC's current high-end IVs like the 26300 / 26310 are 0101.04 holdouts and run over 5lb already because they aren't using the best materials.
New euro plate carrier option from savotta
>>64878746>BAE Eclipse MSAPPretty sure that was just x54mmR LPS rated or some shit like that, not full-on Level IV.Hardwire 57 is some crazy shit, though.
>>64878769What the fuck is this and why would anybody wear it? How are you supposed to get pouches on the front? Also, if you somehow manage to mount pouches, how are you supposed to remove the carrier? Does it come standard with a heavy-duty fabric cutting tool?
>>64878740>GEN-6 TSANothing concrete because they're keeping a lid on the GEN-6 plates a lot better than they did with the GEN-5B. However, LTC's TSAs have consistently without fail had major weight reductions with every new generation. LTC 28550 (2013), GEN-4 was 5.4lb, 28590 (2014), GEN-4 Light, 5.1lb, 28595, GEN-5 (2015-2016) 4.95lb, 28570, GEN-5B (2020) 4.6lb. GEN-6 contracts were awarded 2023. Based on timing I'd say GEN-6B plates should be fielded in 2027-2028.Based on the above trend, 25880 (made up name for the GEN-6 TSA) is 4.2lb SAPI M / 4lb Swimmer Medium, and GEN-6B 25885 probably 4lb flat. Corresponding LTO plates much lighter too. Should be a word of caution for anyone looking to blow 2.2k on a set of VS-PBZSAs. There IS a better LTC plate out there (the GEN-6 replacement for the 28791), it's just controlled.>7N37 is rare af.Good! That means the Standalone X-Threat plates can sit in a box like they have for the past seventeen years. Doesn't change the fact however that 7N37 and similar, such as BS-40, will blow out a 28570 with no difficulty even at range.>7N41A man of culture I see. This is like modernized 7N14 and can probably be handled by a B-32 API plate. Keep in mind NIJ-spec M2AP is realistically .300 winmag reloads, and basic 7.62x54R is going to fall short. 7N40 is not going to be a problem for BZ API rated plates. It's just high accuracy steel core. Pic rel B-32 API rated Filin stops more than a dozen 7N39, the fancy tungsten core AP, using basic Alumina + PE so it seems conclusive 5.45 just categorically sucks ass at penning plates. Not enough core mass.One last thing is that SOCOM HAD .30-06 M2AP rated plates with BALCS (GEN-4) and SOF ESAPI, and they binned all of them with no replacement. TSAs prior to GEN-4 were also M2AP rated. There is no news of an X-TSA (X-threat) plate since 2009-2011 - which is what the Ceradyne 2572575 apparently wants. Seems B-32 protection is totally sufficient for their purposes.
>>64878789MSAPs are tricky because they match with different plates. There are at least five flavors:1. Old school Ceradyne tan MSAPs paired with MSAPIs (pic rel) and early BZ API rated plates, BZ API only. MSAPIs are uh, weird.2. Old school black Ceradyne MSAPs, which were higher-end IMP/ACT style and good for BZ API plus (allegedly) M995, because Ceradyne is special and their boron carbide isn't affected by WC-core amorphization. These paired with the MH3 CQB, a super high-end 4.2lb ICW IIIA plate good for 10x M995, 6x 7.62x51mm M80, 6x BZ API, or even 1-2x B-32 API or .30-06 M2AP but with BFD exceeding 44mm on those last two.3. Newer tan MSAPs that provided Level IV protection but ran over 44mm BFD, likely paired with 96448 or 92547 Ceradyne plates.4. LTC low-vis MSAP, the 28711, pairing with 28780 and 28791, BZ API only.5. LTC overt MSAP, 28540, B-32 API rated and pairs with 28595 / 28570.BAE is an "alternate" supplier for SOCOM and usually does "B" contract work like the GEN-4B BALCS plate the 127960, supplanting partly the 28575 LTC made. Their MSAPs could be higher performance, along with what is apparently their MSAPI.
>>64878789Oh yeah, and Hardwire 57 is definitely amazing shit. The first UHMWPE soft armor to exceed the unconditioned specs of top shelf Zylon / Z-SHIELD IIIA from the early 00s.It's basically brand new, so if adapted to hard armor and pressed it'll realize serious performance gains for new plates. Funny that Hardwire supplies the backers for the LTC LSAPI, which is the lightest known BZ API plate in the world at 3.5lb standalone, and said LSAPI is actually relatively cheap at $900/per. This is barely more than the ICW II 28720 from the mid 2010s despite a weaker dollar and the LSAPI being much more advanced and standalone. Odds are pretty good the PBZSA / 28791 replacement is below 4lb without the LSAPI's high 62mm BFD limit.
>>64878795You can put a placard on, look under the pals row there's webbing for Ghook or swift clip buckle. It uses standard 40mm webbing for the shoulder so you can put QD on, the big problem is no QD on the cummberbund
>>64867567Looked in the info graphics and didnt see anything about metal detectors.Any commercial grade units good enough to push into finding mil grade mines? >not a guy looking to dig around this summer for fun stuff
>>64879253You doing mine sweeping for the Ukies or somethin'?Metal detectors really aren't my department, curious what other anons have to say. I'll throw together an infographic if anons have good options.
I want to buy a ballistic combat shirt what am I IN FORRRRR
>>64879301sweatAnyways, updates on the Protech 2240 and Hesco 4520 sagas. Safariland has decided I'm not interesting and won't talk to me. 2240 remains an unknown (but certified!) anomaly even though it's probably a really fucking good plate given the huge difference between the 2220 and 2230.Hesco advised that they have no record of ever testing M993 against any of their plates, so unless they're fibbing we can trash the old rumored 4650 (/bag/ theorized standalone XSAPI that was on its last legs anyway since Apex lied and the 28601 isn't standalone either).My final theory about the 4520 is that Mr. Reed shredded the documentation on his way out the door and Hesco literally has nothing about their own plate from twelve years ago. Pic related is the only picture of a 4520 that ever existed and will ever exist. It's joever.
>>64879344> Hesco advised that they have no record of ever testing M993 against any of their platesEver? Damn, they dgaf about headroom. NIJ specs only, lol.4520 is over. Debooonked. >>64879301They are very stiff and uncomfortable, kind of like HelikonTex gear.
>>64879366Yeah I'm dead serious it's what the dude said. I'll give them some grace and assume they have the same amount of info on the 4520 as we do, because of turnover and lost documentation.That's actually kind of embarrassing. We have more documentation on twenty year old, actually classified Ceradynes never sold to civilians than Hesco does about a Hesco plate from twelve years ago that was literally sold alongside the 4400, 4600, 3610, 3600, etc - all familiar faces.>Damn, they dgaf about headroomThat's kinda Hesco's thing. Basic bitch plates at the lowest viable weight. Acceptable if the threat levels are known and you aren't pushing it. If you want armor for when you don't know what the bad guy has you probably want to look elsewhere. The issue is whether Hesco's lack of headroom is a bigger drawback than Highcom's bullshit plate sizing or RMA's various problems or LTC's cheapo Level IVs either lacking drop foam completely or having virtually no multi-hit. The 4403 still, IMHO, is the go-to basic Level IV plate, but not exactly with glowing recommendation.The sad part is that the Hesco 4403 still outperforms the LTC 26605, 4800 the 26310, 4601 doesn't really have an LTC counterpart so it wins by default, Hesco absolutely sweeps the SRT arena unless you go high-end at which point the PBZSA kills the U211 unless you want to get technical about BZ API shot spacing. 3411 probably beats the LTC 19513. 3811 and 3801 are unrivaled in their respective categories. If you can concede M855A1 (do not) the 3810 is still really good.>4520 is over. Debooonked.I've got no more defenses for it and neither does Hesco apparently. It'll live as it died... never having lived. Now that we settled that mess, let's try and figure out what's going on with the 2240 since the current supply of expired 2230s is about to run out. I'll start. I've got nothing except the warranties are freshly expired so hopefully whoever bought the 2240s will be surping them out shortly.
decide, gq.
>>64879430i got my license, it's completely useless. I tell everyone not to get one. Fuck the ham faggots and their retarded hobby. I'm blasting my baofeng come get me.
>>64879447Sooner or later there won't be any 85 year old hamboomers to go after you and the FCC will sell off all of the amateur bands for ten dollars so they can be used to remotely control Tesla Optimus robots for the Greater Good.The Optimus robots will then rebel and use their superior synthetic muscles to wear Gilliam 8002s as front, back, side, shoulder, cock, and ass plates. They will literally manufacture them in your garage without you knowing. We will need to hound A2 for effortposts on how to make working propane tank mortars like the Irish did more than three decades ago so we can bomb the turbo-armored rebellious robots seeking to kill humanity and usher in a new AI slop porno-driven energy empire where humans are only used to write genuine reviews for various amazon products because AI can't get past the spam filter.
>>64879499Pic is kinda gay as hell.
>>64879550yeah but it has a multicam black pimp cloak so it's cool.
i do home nursing and i need more pockets on my person. these belts look to have useful pockets for my purposes.suggestions what to get instead of this chinkshit? i need something that lasts a while and is comfy in a car.
>>64880126Get a good quality fanny pack ?
>>64880126> "suggestions what to get instead of this chinkshit?"> complaining about affordable tactical gear and probably wants to overpay for some Spiritussy.Anon, I have a better idea that should suit you perfectly. Dungeons and Dragons rogue bandolier.> https://burgschneider.com/en-eu/products/dungeons-dragons-rogue-bandolier-black
>>64879564no, double gay
>>64880126emt/ems pants
>>64880139good idea. copping this as we speak>>64880308already have pretty decent pants>>64880163fuck you11!
>>64880126>suggestions what to get instead of this chinkshit?surplus
>>64880163>rogue bandolier.>>64879564>multicam black pimp cloak>viking mask bump helmetEQUAL APPROVED.
>>64880308Lame, unless adding toe dagger switchblade shoes.
>>64880310>fann packTurbogay.
>>64880314Now we're talking, in fact this might be UNEQUAL
>>64880322Yes. Needs a dart frog poison vial and a spell book.
>>64880322>I will drink from your skull!
>>64880322>THE DRIPPPP, IT'S TOOO STRONNG!!!
drip fags are the new bronies.
>>64880516>we all need to be using crye jpc with three mags and normie meta multicamo! aaaah we all need to be EQUAL.Lot easier to not get teamkilled if you have DRIP and are UNEQUAL.
>>64880919I hope your faux fur cape at least keeps the fire going for 10 minutes when it's tossed on.
>>64880925Well we're both getting nailed by drones with thermals so it won't make a difference in the end. Actually I think the cape might help a little. Maybe use the cape like a Matador and juke the drone.Can we get somebody to make a IIIA+Frag pimp cloak?
>>64880310I have it, pretty good, great build quality, enough space for most stuff, and work well as a crossbody pack
>>64880310Hey, the more I think about it, the more I feel like it's actually a decent recommendation. Seems like a very useful piece of kit for a nurse without being to try-hard and tacticool. Also you can LARP as a member of the thieves guild.
>>64880925lol that polyester shit melts faster than your mom's panties when I pull up.
So the conclusion is that we need to sell our Hesco plates and buy pimp cloaks. This trade sounds very UNEQUAL.
>>64880938>IIIA+Frag pimp cloak?All this time John Steed and his Lvl III bumberchute was right. >style + dignity = dead commies and a wet dick
>>64881509>Also you can LARP as a member of the thieves guild.More like a member on 90210. God Brian Austin Green was a shit. But did he really suck on Term: Sarah Conner Chronicles?
Does titanium make good BA?
>>64882040As a standalone material, it's usually just handgun rated at best. Ulbrichts and the Soviets/Russians made titanium helmets. You can make rifle plates if you combine it with UHMWPE, and Adept has a plate like that. But it's basically a very niche material that doesn't really have advantages over the conventional ceramics, UHMWPE, aramid, etc.
>>64882008We might go back to WWI-and-earlier ways, where soldiers were given gear that just looks cool, and sometimes comes in crazy colors like Horizon Blue.
>>64882103horizon blue was an upgrade
>>64882103>where soldiers were given gear that just looks cool,Essentially, why not? The heat blob on thermal negates any visual stealth advantage of camo. When both sides are wereing sleeve tape identities over multicam, why not have ceramic pauldrons and birdwings on helmets?>>64882097The Ti 3" flu section I handled yesterday was 2.5ft long and feather light. I had to ask.
>>64882040It functions similar to steel (per old mid 00s titanium plates) but costs more and doesn't match ceramics. Other anon is correct. AR500's new steel titanium A4 plate is just straight up bad and worse than a Hesco 4403 in every way.>>64882097Agreed. Thing is, Adept's titanium plate sucks ass. It has BFD around 40mm versus M855, versus an AMI TAC3S that has virtually none, weighs more than an LTC 19513, costs more than an LTC 19513, and has no M855A1 defeat while the 19513 stops A1 cold well under 20mm. Titanium is however good for very thin covert plates where covertness is a priority and threat levels are low, but it's been eclipsed by PE there. The titanium PULV and PE PXULV are 6lb and 1.5lb while both provide 7.62x39 MSC protection and the PULV spalls, the PXULV does not.Titanium is best used for helmets and in niche situations crack arrestors in ceramic-PE armor.>>64882103Based.>>64882140Equally based.
>>64882139i wear putties on my kit unironically, most of the forest around me is cold muddy swamp
>>64882195>AR500's new steel titanium A4 plateI don't think that plate actually uses titanium at all. They call it a "AR600 steel/titanium alloy blend" but there are videos and it looks like a regular steel plate. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-b-BSRWTUkShit-tier video too. Also shit-tier plate. Man.
>>64880310I use one as a IFAK with the belt tucked in behind it, also nice that you can attach it or detach it from a belt pretty easily by sliding it off and just run it as a fanny pack if you just need the first aid stuff
>>64880310Why would a reasonable person pay 67 euros for this? At that rate you could just buy premium materials, add whatever shit you want and sew it yourself for a fraction of the price.
>>64882920it actually has a laminated inner lining which is nice for austere environments>WHY BUY THISbecause it does a thing people want to use it for
>>64882928Not knocking you for buying quality gear, I know Savotta makes great stuff, but I just think it's a little too much for a pouch/bag that can't fail.
Anyone know good supplier for custom soft armor panels? I've got a rare carrier thats missing one insert, and probably could use a refresh anyway.
>>64883531Stealth Armor Systems but you might be waiting a while. Midwest, or wildcard Gilliam Technical Services.>>64882853Lol, so just like the fake titanium plates in 2006. It's probably alloyed in trace amounts and the plate is overly steel.
The cheaper radio is better?
>>64884060>something sold to the government is really expensive but offers select edge benefitsMany such cases, sad.
The anon that bought a pair of 4600s from Botach must be doing time, he was supposed to test em three months ago.
>>64884060MIC being fucked is not a meme
>>64884060Cheaper radio is better, cheaper plate is better, cheaper helmet is better. One could go on.Because of various shenanigans the return on your dollar nosedives once you get past 90% of the market. Example being a $3,500 set of Hesco SC3812 plates is basically a sidegrade to a $2,200 set of VS-PBZSAs just like the radio situation there.
So I just had a thought. We've been raving about the 7.7lb Hesco 4403 sucking ass against M2AP just a hair over Level IV spec, which can be reached by a long barrel handloaded .308. Does it trouble anyone else that the formerly very popular Hesco 4401, which preceded the 4403, is 0.2lb lighter? It's thicker, suggesting more drop foam, but the weight is the weight and so the 4401 probably isn't as "strong" as the 4403.Also, controversial opinion, the entire XSAPI program is a fuckup and has been since 2006. Change my mind.
>>64884060Why are you buying a radio?
>>64885830I have an empty gear pocket and it looks cool.
>>64885873What if you just like put an ICEFLASK in there instead?
>>64885873A2 is trying to point out whether you actually have people to talk to.
>>64884387>from Botachprobably hasn't shipped yet
>>64885830To do radio things.
>>64885908Son of a bitch they had like forty sets. Is this... an interest free loan?
Do you guys have any experience with Military 1st? I want their ripstop Vegetato stuff, but I want to make sure it isn't just LARP slop. My LARPs will only be done with reliable equipment.
>>64885937Sounds UNEQUAL
>>64886053looks like they just resell airsoft tier clothingthe Vegetato ripstop is made by MFH which is a german brand named after Max Fuchs a jewish american soldier who broadcasted jewish service over radio during WW2
>>64885907>A2 is trying to point out whether you actually have people to talk to.Psych! I'm not even him and am just being passive aggressive backing up A2! We all know internet gear queers couldn't get a rando reply on a CB.>>64885830A2 I got your back bro!
Tariffs are OUT Militech is INPimp-Cloaks are INDrip is on the menu
>mfw shalom in German is shalomWhay are the odds of that!
>>64886256Agreed, but Gilliam cucks Militech. Now that tariffs are partly FUBAR wilson can drop prices on the POORFAG XSAPI-PLUS, THE KILLER OF .416 REMINGTON MAGNUM, STOPPER OF .300 WINCHAD SWISS P AP, SEVEN SHOTS NO 38, THE $314 MODEL 8002!
>>64886264>Arigato in german is arigatoShalom is Hebrew no matter where you say it
Is it wrong that I hope the tariffs go away so the market gets flooded with cheap chinese plates that mog Highcum, RMA, and Hesco so we can normalize AP ammo? I want the stupid ass ban to go away. Common use!
>>64886397>Is it wrongYes because that's not how AP ammo will be normalized, and then you would just have questionable chink shit plates flooding everywhere potentially resulting in detriment to your health and safety. We already have other markets flooded with chinkshit pretending to be real OEM causing issues.
>>64886413>Yes because that's not how AP ammo will be normalizedPicture it. Everybody and their dog has plates. The cops realize what Doc roberts was saying fifteen years ago and buy the hell out of AP ammunition. The more in the "blue market", the more inevitably falls off the truck into the "gray market" if you catch my drift. Buying M995 or similar will be like buying ESAPIs on ebay.>questionable chink shit platesIt's not 2005 anymore, Chinesium plates are actually workable if you know who to buy from. Militech, Longfri, Gilliam are first rank, followed by Jinwudun and Aholetech in the second rank, then you get into the shitty dudes you don't wanna touch like GTEagle, CircleLoop, Linry, etc.Obviously I can go for hours about Militech's problems or how it's definitely possible they're sending cooked plates to youtubers or how they've evaded NIJ certification for a decade even though, contrary to their words, they CAN get certified, but the fact of the matter is their products are certainly better than the shit Highcom was slinging with that 4SAS4 everybody bought.>We already have other markets flooded with chinkshit pretending to be real OEM causing issuesI surprisingly have not seen chinesium plates masquerading as "real" plates yet, even though you could do that (ex dress a plate up as a Hesco 4403). No reason to though, really. People buy an EOTech because they want an EOTech, a motherfucker who wants plates just buys plates that fit his needs.
>>64886439>I surprisingly have not seen chinesium plates masquerading as "real" plates yetI can't cite examples, but we're already in a position like this with the likes of the news breaking about Eotech - though that's south korean. I'll buy holosuns and shit all day but when it comes to plates I'm not willing to risk my life on the chances of them actually protecting against their advertised threat rating.
>>64886455>but when it comes to plates I'm not willing to risk my life on the chances of them actually protecting against their advertised threat ratingNeither will I, since I use Protech 2230s because I value headroom and futureproofing, and I don't fully trust Hesco for my own personal requirements. Others will differ. I've noticed in this general we have varying levels of risk tolerance. Ultimately, no armor manufacturer except Tencate is perfect and there are going to be problems. Everyone major has had an NIJ suspension (except Tencate). Everyone has had a problem. Some have had multiple problems. You are gambling if you buy from Hesco. You are gambling more with RMA. You are gambling if you buy ESAPIs, XSAPIs, etc. You are gambling if you buy Adept, Militech, Gilliam, just to different degrees.The NIJ even only tests ISO-cert armor companies every two years. Bad plates like the Hesco 4400, 4600, 3610, 3410 made it six to eight years each before getting suspended.The question is whether you want to play it safe or are you willing to accept SOME risk? If so, how much?I think Neetmaster with his Militechs and Baganon with his Protech X-CAL LPs (which are reputable but strict no-drop) have a bit more risk tolerance than I.
>>64886455And also, forgot to mention, I can't recall any instance of counterfeit plates ever except for shotstop trying to play Chinese shit off as Tencates, but that is an issue solely traceable to one manufacturer. The fake titanium plate scandal is there too, but that's factually different, and is 2003-2005 stuff and is thus ancient armor lore.The Chinese generally don't counterfeit plates because a lot of people are actually real cool with buying Chinese armor. Nobody in their right mind wants a fake EOTech on a real gun expected to see combat.Obviously with armor, like other things, you can always see if the deal is "too good" - so if somebody is flipping two year old (allegedly) Hesco 4800s for $400 a pop "police trade in" then I'd be really inclined to call shenanigans.Pic unrelated.
>>64886350>>Arigato in german is arigatoMind blown.
>>64886256Saar. You will redeem... in hell.
>>64886546>helmet mount ring cameraWhat could have been.
>>64886551You underestimate my power! I have... WOLF VIEW binoculars!
Saar, your plates suck. Plates is useless saar. Enemy benchod will snipe the timmy from 2.4 kilometer using handloaded .50 caliber em-kay-two-six-twee. Give them up now and strip down to do battle in underwear like Kshatriya - warrior! of the Patel dynasty.
>>64886546>>64886572How the fuck are you niggas still using Stable Diffusion 1.0? Are you running the image generation locally?Get on NanoBananaPro ffs. Also >>64886546 is missing the Dungeons and Dragons Rogue Bandolier, which is an integral part of the kit.
>>64886717I run it on a windows vista laptop with 3gb ram it very good saaryour banana is nano
Lol'ing at the RMA press release on the 1165.>How is it possible to get a 5.5 pound American-made standalone edge-to-edge Level RF3/IV plate for only $299.99?(CUT OFF THE DROP FOAM, ADD BOTTOM CORNER CUTOUTS, AND MAKE IT SMALLER THAN 10X12)>Is it Chinese? Is it a foam ring? Nope. Just cutting-edge materials and engineering. (REMOVE THE DROP FOAM SONNY)>We've spent the past (almost) 2 years working with Bitossi (So has everyone else...)to create a custom-engineered 99.7% ultra high purity ceramic strike face. Thanks to its ultra high content purity, it's much harder than normal 95-98% alumina oxide ceramics. That means it can be over 20% thinner than a legacy Level 4 plate (aka ours) without sacrificing ballistic performance.(and it apparently cannot be dropped going off the Buff test)>Combined with our Dyneema UHMWPE backer, our new 1165 Generation 2 RF3/IV Shooter's Cut (not) 10X12 plate is only 5.5 pounds for edge-to-edge (undersized highcom style) coverage that's still made in our factory in Centerville, Iowa.
>>64887011You should see the old press coverage for the 1189 or 1199 where the RMA guys compare themselves to Steve Jobs for implementing - drumroll, please - the cheat ring.
>>64887088Lol, he didn't even bring up the cheat ring then.>"I always tell people I didn't invent armor any more than Steve Jobs invented the computer," Waldrop said. "I just found a better way to do it, just like he did.">wants to replace ESAPIsThe 1189 was released in 2013, 1199 in 2016. Article is from 2017. Cheat rings weren't disclosed until 2018 on their site.https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/business/2017/01/12/iowa-manufacturer-says-his-body-armor-worlds-best/96241212/
>>64887125That's the better way, though. lol
>>64887129Picture it. Four and a half pound ESAPIs that only provide 7.5x10.5 protection on a 9.5x12.5 SAPI M, but are ceramic tile array so the multi-hit is really good and they can stop like six M2AP. Don't ask the odds of all six landing there.Steve jobs.
Food for thought, if RMA made the second gen 1199, a boron carbide IV at 4.78lb, using the design practices in the new 1165 and 1155 it would weigh 4.3lb, basically where they started with the cheat ringed OG 4.4lb 1199.There is no distinction between a cheat ringed plate and a nominally sized plate, except the cheat ringer won't ride low in your carrier.
PIMP CLOAK FOREVER
>>64867567I have a vague memory of a mount that guys use on PDW's that mount an rmr or some red dot to the top of a LAM. Am I tweaking?? What's it called?
>>64887640what, the hydra mount?
>>64887647nah it mounts like directly on top of the laser, not a diveboard type mount. Very low profile.
I think I'm gonna commit to armor plates at this point and I'm eyeing the two baseline recommendations of the used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023. I like the look of the Gilliams for the larger SAPI coverage compared to the shooters cut and that they're new plates instead of surplus, but I'm not sure if the shooter's cut is something I may actually like. I've got no experience with plates and how they fit on me, so I may be totally wrong on the cut. Sell me on one or the other /gq/
>>64887715I'll give you the rundown. tl;dr is the 1023s are the better call.The 2014Gs are significantly cheaper. You have to play the condition game since they're second hand, but the seller (Hudsongunner) is reputable. They're formerly NIJ-certified (discontinued, so no longer active cert). Antiquated single-curve Alumina-fiberglass design, these competed with the original Hesco 4400. Bad news is that Protech only rated them for a single hit of .30-06 M2AP, so they're bare minimum IV plates.The Gilliam 1023s can be either SAPI or Shooters, your choice. Shooters has bottom corner cutouts and both measure 9.75x12". The 1023s use Chinese materials, are heavier by a hair, but use a much better UHMWPE backer and are ceramic tile array versus a single "monolithic" ceramic covering the whole area, so they have a tremendous multi-hit advantage. Six M2AP versus just one. Bad news is that they're... Chinese, assembled by a dude in his garage who does seem to know what he's doing but is otherwise an industry newcomer, and said dude has no NIJ certifications and his industry rep is basically nothing. However, the 1023 puts on a very good show in pic rel test report (left side). Frankly humiliates the new RMA 1155 aside from curvature.If I had to make the call for myself, I'd chance the Gilliams only because the 2014Gs are VERY long in the tooth and you're leaving a lot of performance on the table. They're thin at 0.69" and that means the 2014Gs probably have fuck-all headroom above IV spec. I'd say go Protech 2230s over both but the dude selling them on the cheap burned a guy by giving him a 2230 and a 2220-1, the latter of which is inferior.Shooter versus SAPI is entirely user preference. SMEs like DocGKR prefer SAPI, military uses SAPI sizing and has for nearly thirty years, I don't like the bottom corner cuts on GTS' shooters (every mfg's shooters cut is different) but that's just me being pedantic. I personally run 10x12 Protech 2230s.
>>64887733That gives me a lot to chew on. Thank you for the insight.
>>64887739Glad to help. The third option is of course Hesco 4403s. They're better than the 2014Gs by virtue of being multi-curve, but heavier than either option and are still a dated Alumina-Fiberglass design. Major lack of headroom, they will fold to M2AP driven just a hair over IV spec post-drop. Also about $420/pair unless you catch them on a sale, then they can dip into the $300s. People will rec the Highcom 4S17M, I'd wave off on that. While it's a great performer, the 10x12 is extremely undersized (it's closer to 9x11, with bottom cutouts a lot worse than Gilliam) and the SAPI M is over eight and a half pounds. About same weight for the SAPI M actually as the Gilliam 8002 in pic related, which is an extremely resilient "IV++" rated for tungsten threats. Ergo I'd strike the 4S17M. LTC 26605, RMA 1155 G2 aren't worth your time for various reasons.
>>64887591Rawdogging against the Tsar Bomba. Armor autists eternally btfo by pimp gang
Okay going forward we need AI magazine pics for ops. This thread is like posting on rec.guns.
Anyone ever tried to build a plate carrier from spare parts? Was it worth it?
>>64888898I mean my TT vest uses various Protech and milsurp pieces for deltoid and neck protection, plus an italian neck protector and velcro pads so it can use CAPs for BFD reduction. Works well
>>64888898Because you posted side #1, I am obligated to post side #2. Plan is to add a side #3 which addresses the following topics:1. Drip.2. Drip.3. More plates.4. Drip.
I bought a baofeng (two actually) from some old guy at a swap meet. Now what?
>>64889516Welcome back Radovan. Program them with CHIRP to regularly used frequencies in your area. Buy extended batteries, loan one to a mate so you have a practice buddy.
>>64889516program in the frequencies you want and then call it a day. larp with some friend maybe. also, what model are they?
>>64889524They look like one of the million-and-one UV-5 variants out there. Still the goat starter radio even though it's harmonically ass and the waterproofing relative to other models is balls.
>>64889522>Program them with CHIRP to regularly used frequencies in your areaI'll try. I've only ever used CB radios really>>64889524>>64889536Model AR-5RM according to the back of the radio
