300 win mag is the best round ever
Agreed. it can be loaded with M2AP at 3,200ft/s to beat LEVEL IV. YEEHAW
>>64873848It's pretty impressive. I remember during the ammo shortages that handloaders who owned guns chambered in it were considering weaker rounds like 6.5 Creedmoor simply so they wouldn't run out of handloading components that quickly (there was a shortage of gunpowder too).
I love handloading for my Barrett 98B, but my god those little bastards take a lot of powder. A pound of powder makes about 80 rounds....
35 Whelen*
>>64873848It's ok but for the pounding you take while firing it, you may as well just get a .270. Unless, of course, you just really like taking a good pounding every now and then.
>>64873998but bigger bullet means bigger hole for me to fuck
>>64873899But it also makes big fireballs at night
>>64873848It is pretty fucking nice, I gotta admit.>extremely flat shooting>common enough it's easily found at most gun stores>very good for long range>huge variety of bullet options making it suitable for nearly any sort of gameYeah there are faster .30 cals if you want to get into a dick-measuring contest but .300 WM is a nice sweet spot of performance, cost, and availability.
>>64873848>300 win mag is the best round everI've always enjoyed it, particularly if customized outside of the saami spec, but I'm strongly considering switching to 300 PRC when I next rebarrel. It's the first 300 alternative round I've tried that feels not merely a solid modest improvement in every way to 300wm but also without any downsides, not even barrel life. It's not some radical change, more the adding up of a lot of solid little polishes and there's enough coal ootb to accommodate playing with some of the modern super high BC 30cal bullets. Even for factory ammo the cost has been steadily dropping, now down to around 185cpr, well above 300wm but unless you're getting the absolute cheapest pp or aguila it's not radically above anymore (I think the best I've seen on norma or hornady recently was in the 145-155 range). Good trajectory too since a year ago it was more like 235cpr.So might be down to the final few thousand rounds for me, though we'll see how the next few years go. But helluva cartridge and with some absolutely wicked cool guns for it in its lifetime as well as endless reliable reasonably priced ones.
>>64873848>300 year old belted garbageIt's so bad I wouldn't even use it to shoot you.
>>64873848>best round everUse case?
>>64873848Neck is too short. Flawed from the get go.
>>64873868Proof pls
>>64874475its the 9mm or magnum cartridges
>>64874475shooting things
>>64874759>shooting thingsWOW WE'VE GOT A TOTAL BAD ASS HERE WHO "LIKES" TO "SHOOT" HIS "GUNS" FOR """FUN"""!!!!
>>64873848>338 win mag is the best round everCorrect. Considering the variety of bullets, and the cost effectivness being the most bang for the buck, it can suit just about any situation.
>>64874622>Neck is too short.
>>64875095338-06 is better in most applications. Short of very long range shooting that is.The 338-06 has better sd and bc than comparable bullets like the 9.3. the velocity is very respectable. 300fps+ - in the light 160180s for game like deer and black bear. 210 @ 2800 for things like elk and moose. 250g at 2500 has proven time and time again to be very effective on dangerous game in Africa. The 338-06 is truly a one rifle for the world choice.
>>64875112NTA, I agree with you that ballistically the .338 is extremely capable, it's honestly the better choice if you are interested in hunting large game. But it misses one of the huge benefits of the .300, which is that it's economical and common.
>>64875161>But it misses one of the huge benefits of the .300, which is that it's economical and common.Right, that's the core point. Same as 300bo say. It's not that they're the bestest most min/maxed calibers ever, that someone serious can't find many superior options for their specific use cases etc. It's that they're solid middle of the road options with massive availability, massive gun availability, decent relative economics, and no glaring weaknesses or super high requirements.And it's a somewhat significant jump in going from 30cal to 33cal or bigger in terms of gun options and cost. Not just cost/options of ammo but accessories like suppressors too. And in north america at least the niche shrinks pretty dramatically as well.
>>64875351But if the availability and cost is the driving factor in the "compromise" we are discussing then why would one choose the 300wm over the 30-06? It's only 200 fps difference when you are discussing 180g bullets. Considering you are talking 2700-2800 fps from the 06 why? Everything 06 is going to be less expensive. More available. Accessories and options will be as well. You are only really gaining again in really long ranges. Considering the US army used the as a sniper round. Then the "308" in a long action m24 they had build specifically to go back to the 06 that came with a scope dialed in to 1000, that they then had refitted for the 300wm, what are you hoping to gain. Is the 300wm "better" than the 06? Sure it packs a 200fps bigger whollop on the same game the 3006 can take easily. Is the 300wm a better sniper round? No. It's got a short neck and when you get into the reloading it or high bc/sd ammo it's not the best choice. The weatherby is far better. The only real selling point to the 300wm is it fits in the standard 06 action. Hence the short neck.
>>64875914>then why would one choose the 300wm over the 30-06?It's just as common, while actually being a meaningful step up from .308. The only reason to buy a .30-06 is if you're into vintage guns. If you're buying a new gun and you need more power then .308, .300 WM is the next logical step up.>Everything 06 is going to be less expensive. More availableNot really, and the accessories are the same thing.
>>64875987308 gives up space in the powder column for heavy bullets. Hot 30-06 is a lot better than 308 and very close to factor "average" 300wm. 300wm is a jump from 30-06. But it is not as significant as one would think. It is a lot more expensive than 30-06. The next logical step from 30-06 would be a larger diameter bullet, or a significant jump in velocity. The 338 is that bigger bullet. And the 300 weatherby is the significant jump in velocity. The 300 weatherby is another 200fps over the wm. That makes it 400fps (using a generalization here) over the 30-06. While you can hop up the 06 and get it closer to the wm, the weatherby is the true 300 magnum here and the next logical step up.Put it this way. If you have a 308 do you think the 06 is a significant jump up? Not really. It has its benefits over it but it's close enough. But the 300wm would be over the 308 right? Same thing.06 to weatherby would be the jump up. And when you need to hand load, use long range hunting and target bullets the weatherby comes in a far more accurate package, AND it's case design is not flawed like the 300wm. Now that I think of it 300wm is shit.
>>64876035>The next logical step from 30-06Nobody is asking about the logical step up from .30-06. The question is where to go from .308.> It is a lot more expensive than 30-06. Not in my experience. I shoot both, if you're buying off-the shelf ammo at LGS or a big sporting goods store it costs about the same..300 weatherby, its big brother the .30-378, ..300 RUM, etc, are absolutely steps up, but now we're talking more obscure specialist cartridges which are well outside the scope of the discussion of the "best all around cartridge".
>>64876051and like mentioned by some earlier anon 300prc is probably the biggest contender right now to replace 300wm. fixes everything with no downsides. price seems to be coming down. if it follows a trajectory like 6.5cm did might drop surprising fast. personally im still fucking stunned how quick sneed dropped in price
>>64876051Weatherby ammo is 54 dollars a box everywhere. It's 60 a box for 180g federal right now. Weatherby sells entry level rifles as well that are out of the box worlds better than the competitions higher end. The next step up from the 308 would be a real magnum. Honestly it would be the 7mm Remington magnum. Not another 30 cal. But if you think it's a 30 cal then it would be one like the weatherby that hits those 3100fps+ marks with 180g bullets. Best all around cartridge would be the grandaddy of magnums the 270 Winchester. The 7mm rem magnum would be the next step over that and superior to the 308 or 3006. Once you have seen a moose bang flopped with a 7mm magnum your mind changes. In the 30 cal world 308 is pointless unless a short action is needed.
>>64874676So the least good but still servicable and coasting on economy of scale cheapness?
>>64874475everything
>>64874643Nigger are you retarded? the bullets used in both cartridges are 7.62.
>>64874473kill yourself
>>64874643>>64877343What if I were to tell you M2AP at only 2,950ft/s reliably clears certified Level IV plates such as the Hesco 4403?
>>64878044What plates do I get?
>>64873848Those who say that don't own a 7mm Rem Mag.
>>64878279Protech 2230s are on sale on Gunbroker (expired) for $600/set or less which weigh less and have been tested as follows:>"During NIJ Compliance testing for V50 which requires 12 impacts of the .30 M2-AP, the independent lab didn’t get any penetrations even with velocities in excess of 600 ft/s above the top velocity of the Type IV Reference Velocity range for NIJ-06 Compliance Testing."In other words, the NIJ-06 reference velocity range is 2,880ft/s +-30, so functionally 2,910ft/s. Protech did not get any penetrations with M2AP even beyond that velocity plus 600ft/s, which is 3,510ft/s. You would have to fire M2AP out of a .30-378 or other super magnum cartridge to get it going that fast.
Pic rel is more testing data from Buffman showing that M2AP holds its own at enhanced velocity even against high "IV+" plates like military XSAPIs and the Adept Colossus.
>>64878044In the extraordinarily unlikely scenario that you're being shot at in the first place, and in the constellation of all possible things that could kill you in such a scenario, if you really think over-spec M2AP is a serious threat that needs to be mitigated then you should be institutionalized to prevent you from making other people dumber.
>>64878389Considering over-spec M2AP is literally in ESAPI REV. J requirements (v50 minimum 3,150ft/s), and was explicitly advertised as a capability for the Protech 2230, Highcom 4SAS12, Aratech IV, and other plates, it is obviously a threat that several armor manufacturers and their customers see fit to protect against.Level IV M2AP is in itself over-spec, considering that M2AP in its original .30-06 loading is about 2,715ft/s. Said over-spec M2AP has been the Level IV requirement for fifty years.
>>64878292why would i own a 7mm rem mag when i can own something cooler
>not a single post mentioning the WSM's, which are all better, more efficient cartridges than their name sakes in a shorter package. What the Fuck?I would take the 270 wsm over the 270, the 300wsm over the 300wm the 30-06 or the 308 (and I have all of them), and the hand loaded 325wsm shooting a 220gr Sierra at 2950fps over anything similar in the 338.With powder shortages, efficiency has become key.
>>64878044Dam you could get that out of a .308
>>64880453Efficiency for what? They burn up barrels like crazy. This was shown when Winchester was originally testing the 25 WSSM against the 2506. Near as makes no difference identical external and terminal performance. Do you think the less vibration of the shorter action or the short powder column is going to equal better accuracy? It doesn't. Not in over the counter rifles. You start getting into 20,000 builds and extreme long range then yes. There is a difference. Not for you. You can't even push a 1989s model 70 long action to its best
>>64873848I've been thinking about doing 300wm for my first bolt rifle. I know most people would probably say go .308, but I'm only going to shoot it like once a year at targets when I can get across the state to a real rifle range and otherwise I have a shotgun to hunt with. Any advice on what gun to get or why I should just stick to a 308?
>>64873907Break-actions will never die.
>>64882254how far are you going to shoot
>>64881824That's funny, I'm pretty sure I can blow up any gun I want just by being an idiot. My wsm's will outlast me.Maybe the 25wsm is a barrel burner, (which is why they never introduced it, instead going with the wssm) but every production wsm caliber has the same longevity as the calibers they replaced, while being more efficient and more inherently accurate because of the factors that create that efficiency: fat cases and blown out shoulders, the same thing that makes the 6ARC and 6.5CM inherently accurate. The only issue a person has to complain about with any wsm is the feeding issues you can run into with the 325, which I've only read about. If you want a 300 for anything other that the long heavy bullets, get a wsm.And if you want the long heavy bullets, why aren't you going for the prc?
>>64882400Inherently more accurate is a marketing gimmick. Than what? I can make one ragged hole at 100 with my Mark V in 300 weatherby mag. More accurate than one ragged hole? You can't not do you, nor can your rifle use that "inherently more accurate" cartridge in any way. If you are shooting prairie dogs off a table at 600 yards with 20,000+ worth of rifle, sure. I can make one ragged hole with factory ammo, factor rifle and frankly an antique scope. And those "long heavy bullets? Those would be the only bullets you would be using to take advantage of that "inherently more accurate" cartridge.This is the same stupid argument that's gone on forever. Used to be the 308 was better than the 06 because it's shorter. News flash the 06 was better for long range because more room for longer bullets without being in the powder column is a thing. Back in the day in the fields the 284 wildcats became all the range. The thundering 6mm and 6.5 wildcats. They were SOO much better was the chatter in the field. All the while guys with 280s 25-06s were making the same long shots all day.You can make anything accurate if you get the bullet, twist rate and bedding all sorted And yes, the rag writers and hunters who tested those new wsms, wssms all said the same thing. The Winchester short and super short mags burn up a barrel faster than the long versions they were duplicating.
>>64882387Well the once a year I'll get out to a good range it can be out to 2000 yards, otherwise all of my shooting is within 150-200 yds
>>64882400>My wsm's will outlast me.Everyone who doesn't shoot can make this claim.>>64882290Based.
>>64883083yeah get 300 win mag also pretty nice if you wanna reload
>>64882400just shoot 300 winmag
>>64878279Hoplite, the owner named (((them)))
>>64884462They're LTC. If you want to stop M2AP out of a .300 winmag reliably buy used Protech 2230s. LTC's civilian lineup is very mediocre aside from the III+ 19513 and even Hesco basically sweeps.However, the 4403 is the wrong plate for the job too. Buy 2230s.
>>64882495>The Winchester short and super short mags burn up a barrel faster than the long versions they were duplicating.No, they don't. You'd know this if you shot any of them. There is absolutely no appreciable difference in wear between the wsm's and their respective counterparts, because of sharp shoulders and fat powder column localizing the pressure spike inside the cartridge. I shoot the 300wm. It really loves the berger 230gr, something too long for the wsm.But I would rather and do shot the Sierra 195gr in the wsm. Same velocity with less powder. How in the Fuck does that burn a barrel faster? Pressure? If the velocity is the same, the pressure the barrel receives is also the same. Do what you want, but anyone pretending a gun with the same projectile that can do the exact same thing another gun can do velocity and accuracy wise but in a shorter lighter package ISN'T an improvement is a retarded boomer who should just take his boosters and fuck off already.
>>64882495>I can make one ragged hole at 100 with my Mark V in 300 weatherby magOnce, but also all day long when you do your part, off of a lead sled, shooting 3 round groups as part of some hocus pocus ladder test that can't be replicated
>>64878292I’m a 7mm Rem Mag enjoyer and even I admit 300 is its bigger brother. Both are fantastic cartridges. Magnum cartridges in general just inherently shit on the competition. I’ll take 7mm Rem Mag over 6.5 CM or .270 and I’ll take 300 over 30-06 or .308 when it comes to actually killing shit. The only downside is barrel life and frankly new barrels aren’t that expensive.
>>64883083Depends on use case and budget. If you’re going to use it for hunting grab a Bergara B-14. I love that rifle. If you’re looking to get into precision rifle shooting solely to shoot far the Ruger Precision Rifle is tailor made for that. A B-14 HMR would be a good tweener platform if you don’t want to drop 2k+ on an RPR. If you’re a poorfag on a budget get yourself a Savage 110 Tactical.Remember the key to long range shooting once you factor out cartridge limitations is that good glass often matters more than the rifle.
>>64880453>>not a single post mentioning the WSMThere's good reason for that. They're not significantly superior to the longer cartridges they are based on, while the guns are a lot more limited and the ammo is much harder to find. Say what you like about .300 Win Mag but you I'd expect pretty much any gun store to have it. .270 WSM? Nothing wrong with its ballistics, just its price and availability.
>>64885112I'm not sure what you're on about, a ragged hole at 100 yards is not challenging as long as you have a decent rifle. And by "decent" I mean not junk, but not fancy either. I was doing that regularly with my first real rifle and minimal training. Bone stock Remington 700 PSS (pre-rustington), .300 WM, Federal GMM ammo, Harris bipod, shooting either prone or off a shitty plywood bench with a rusty folding chair. 10 ground groups. I absolutely believe that anon is doing the same thing with his Weatherby because it's not anything impressive or difficult.
>>64873848Talk to me like I'm retarded. Why should I use anything besides 9mm/45acp, 223, and 308?
>>64885637Stoppan powahNo but seriously if you're just shooting white tails and hogs, .308 is fine
>>64885637Piercing apocalypse ruffians wearing Level IV plates.
>>64875112>The 338-06 has better sd and bc>.35 Wheelen>.358 Winchester >9.3x62mm>.338-08There are the underrated cartridges. I ma get turned on for the .338Arc after I learn more about it.
>>64878869Why would you be posting here when you could post someplace cooler? Checkmate faggot.
>>64885637If you don't reload, then you shouldn't
>>64885606>I’m a 7mm Rem Mag enjoyerThe last one I talked to told me his brother shot his over 2 miles. I had no responsento that.
>>64886220This is largely true and will never ever get you in a pickle.>the thinking man's magnums are .25-06AI, 9x23mm, .375Weatherby, ect
>>64885637300 win mag just feels like you’re sending a big FUCK YOU FAGGOT with every trigger pull. It’s a very angry round.
>>64886226They lie. Probably from Arizona. Arizonans are all liars.
>>64873848Perfect timing making this thread, I've been autisticly hyperfixating on 300 win mag lately. Also, how bad is the recoil really when fired from a 12-14lb gun? I've only ever shot 6.5 creedmoor and shotguns so I'm not sure if I should build a 300.
>>64886557It's sharp, not really heavy. It's probably the equivalent of the 9.3. but the 9.3 is a hard push, 300wm is a crisp pop.
>>64886210we are the faggot then
>>64885637it makes big loud noise and make you feel big and strongmakes you man
>>64885616Probably won't be hunting with it, I have a shotgun I use and I'm in eastern Pa where it's pretty much all woods. It's gonna strictly be for target shooting once or twice a year when I can drive halfway across the state to a real range but I want to learn about how to really use a scope/elevation and windage. The b14 and the Ruger were my shortlist, I was considering a savage but I heard mixed things about their rifles and I'm willing to drop a grand on the gun to just do this right once and not regret it. Funny enough my shotgun is an old savage stevens from the 70s and I love it but I'm sure their modern offerings aren't the same quality. The good glass will wait a bit but I have a cheap lpvo I can use on it in the meantime to start with.
>>64886689>and make you feel big and strong>makes you manI can do this by beating my 92# Asian with a ping pong paddle.Fun fact, I call her Ping Pong.
>>64887363hehe thats pretty funny
>>64873848you mean 270>>64873868270 with a brass eco boollit zips through
>>64887780FAGGOT
>>64873848It insists upon itself.
