well?
>>64880029Aside from the problem they still need to magically shit out fuel for them then a Stug life was a more sensible choice.
>>64880029Germany's problems were far deeper than just "build less heavy tanks". Once the US got involved there wasn't anything they could have done to win the war.
>>64880039nah, when the US started sending troops there was still much room for victory. They lost in the moment the got absolutely dunked on by british counterintelligence and fucked up the D-Day defence. In the moment where the allies got their foothold in the normandy it was over
build LESS Stugs, build LESS heavy breakthrough tanks.build MORE Panzer IV's with the long barrelled 75's
>>64880029the war was decided by the invulnerable factory hidden behind two biggest oceans on earth spamming shit 24/7 until everybody was dead. Exact armor and caliber millimeter values had little effect on this strategic outcome
>>64880032https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BiofuelThey should have used more hungarian jews
as he states in the video it wouldn't have won the war, but it would have made victory more difficult for the allies
>>64880095As fuel?
>>64880029Wouldn't have helped anyway. This amount of wasted steel would have been muuuuch more usefull to build strategic bombers, trucks, trains and railways.
How about you watch the video 'tard?
>>64880029They needed to capture oil and defend refineries to have any chance, even having F-16s and Abrams in 1938 wouldn't have helped if they couldn't secure fuel.
German AFV production peaked in December 1944. Without the other elements necessary for combat readiness, the vehicles were simply lined up in factory yards.Stug also had problems with its incompetence in roles other than ambushes and infantry fire support.
Bully Raeder so the surface fleet don't gobble down between a fifth or a fourth of the fuel doing proportionally nothing. >N..no you can't do that, the Navy will rebel.Death warrants print themselves. More fuel though is still not of much help with the logistic bottle necks in the East beyond Poland. Might increase productivity in the economy at the very least which no one will complain over. In the counterfactual where Operation Typhoon succeeded in seizure of Moscow: Does it end the war in the East? I'll lean towards the "Fatherland" by Robert Harris, eternal guerilla war to fight (Armies like Chinese warlords with rapid attrition and degradation the initial years).U.K if it doesn't settle at the soviet practical capitulation?Maybe it, or other allies receive the vast lend lease to enable the continued warfare in any means which inventively steer towards Germany is nuked.StuGs irrelevant
Scrap the King Tiger Program. Funnel all R+D into Panther tank development.
>>64880109Yes.
>>64880029no, what they need is to speed up the type XVIII development with hydrogen peroxide AIP,.Walter actually proposed this back in early 1934. The kriegsmarine OKM was too far up their own asses so they actually went with keeping the ancient ww1 tech for the type I, II and VII instead, >inb4 hydrogen peroxide is too dangerous to be used on a submarineThat's the same story with modern hydrogen fuel cell on AIP boats, which was deemed unsafe to operate, and type 212 also demonstrated how much of a game-changer it is. Type XVIII, by design, would still retain a quarter to a third of the battery capacity of the Type XXI, while the Walter engine would give it the much-needed sprint speed for extended periods.https://subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=138467 A sizeable type XVIII fleet in 1940-1941 would've wreaked havoc upon the royal navy by itself
>>64880039The muh heavy thought needs redressed. You know what burns more fuel and uses more steel than a heavy tank?Two tanks
>>64880029The only reason they were even using stugs in the first place was because they did not have the logistical capability to build enough turrets for their hulls. Which is to say they were fucked either way.
>>64880029>another what if
>>64880029Yes and they should have given them to finns just like in the pic. This would have allowed finns to advance and cut off the railway from Murmansk, which was one of the big lifelines bringing american lend lease to Moscow.
>>64880562No way to make that many XVIIIPeroxide is not easy to get in the 40's.
>>64880075>there was still much room for victoryHow would there not being a western front stop every German city from being razed to the ground by bombers, first with incendiaries and later with nukes?
>>64880562All of that assumes they could have actually gotten the engine to properly work at all, which no one ever did even postwar, so it's all very hypothetical, paper tank kind of stuff. I think earlier and better made XXIs is by far the better counterfactual, since they basically had a fleet of them just too late and too small, they had the range and armament to have a real impact on Battle of the Atlantic, and ASW technology was no where near being able to cope with their capabilities even in mid WWII. Their problems were mostly attributable to late wartime production issues, and they're realistically the only weapon Germany ever had at any point that has even a hypothetical chance of knocking England out of the war before America enters (and in good terms to the English), and thus being able to yeet Japan as an ally before Pearl Harbor and only need to fight it out with the USSR.
>>64880029wars arent won on the battlefield so what would have gone on there is largely irrelevant
>>64880039The best the Germans could have done is negotiate from a strong point in 1941 and NOT invade the Soviet Union. Unironically had Hitler ended the war then and not done a holocaust he would probably have gone down in the history books as a dictator but a shrewd and calculating one and Germans would have considered him a hero for restoring the Reichs honor as well as expanding its territories.
Would Hitler or Napoleon have been able to suddenly end wars at the height of their power? Their wars also likely served to keep financial problems under wraps.
>>64885527yeah, you're right on that one, the main problem with the Walter engine was the bottleneck in mass producing enough HTP. Allied bombing didn’t help, either.>>64885583>better made XXIsI beg to differ. XXI was a cut-down XVIII, not the other way around. Pic related was already a combat-ready Walter boat.Take the case of the larger Type XVIII: they were to carry 204 tons of HTP..www.ubootarchiv.de/ubootwiki/index.php/XVIIIOn average, using the hot process with a consumption of 2.35 kg/kWh ,the capacity would've been about 204/0.00235 ≈ 86.8 MWh.Other processes with lower HTP consumption were also tested, which would bring it closer, if not evenly matched to the modern AIP on the 212A SSK, purely in term of energy capacity.Reminder: a 212A carries about 5 tons of hydrogen, for a total energy capacity of:5000kg × 33.3kWh/kg × 60% (average BZM 34 efficiency) = 99.9 MWh.Another plus of the HTP drive AIP is that it can also sprint at a very high speed, albeit limited to only a few hours. A high-speed noisy submarine isn't something special with mid-to-late Cold War ASW, as the case with the Alfas, but for 1940s ASW techs, the idea of a speedy U-boat that can shadow a convoy for weeks, engage, then quickly disengage using its AIP would put a sheer strain on the Lend-Lease, both for the Brits and the Soviets.The Walter boat was to use a hybrid diesel-electric with LAB + HTP propulsion AIP. That's the very same system that still present on any modern SSK with AIP. If that's not revolutionary for you, I don't know what is.TLDR: The OKM wasted a good four years dicking around with the idea of resurrecting the high-seas fleet in their wet dream, knowing there was no point in competing with the Royal Navy's surface fleet. Walter only received the commission to build the V80 tech demonstrator in 1939. The pre-war OKM unironically gave Göring a run for his money in the competition for who could screw up the war effort more spectacularly.
>>6488002920 times more, maybe.
>>64885845>I beg to differ. XXI was a cut-down XVIIILess 'cut down' and more reimagined. Basically to get similar performance without needing peroxide, and they did a pretty damned good job at it.The issue is the initial models had fucked up superchargers, so their performance took a huge hit.
>>64880105That kid is 36? Must have one of those Benjamin Button syndromes or something.
>>64885845Kek. The German Navy pleaded with Hitler to postpone war until they built enough U-Boats. Had Hitler listened, Britain would have been starved into submission.
>>64885724the uk never, ever, would've caved as long as the were friendly with the us government and fdr's government was already not so subtly hostile to germany long before the latter officially declared warbordering the ussr was also a war waiting to happen, there's nothing communists crave more than spreading their misery to other nations
>>64885845>posts lots of specifications of an engine that never worked operationally and caught fire a lotThe Type XVIII was not functional. The smaller and less complicated Type XVII was never operational because the engines didn't work and caught fire all the time. The Germans were simply not capable of getting the technology to work well enough to field operationally in the time frame of WWII - but they could build working Type XXIs, and sort of did. The difference between our timeline and one where Germany was one generation ahead on submarines and built more of them is very plausible compared to a timeline where they get AIP to work well and reliably in, like, 1936 and churn out an operationally meaningful quantity of HTP boats in time to win the Battle of the Atlantic well before December 41.
>>64880029CAN'T PLUG THE STUG
>>64880029Stugs could be deleted on the run by basic bitch Shermans or T-34s (unlike heavier German tanks). That's the last thing you would want.6 times more Panthers and maybe you'd have a chance (considering that you are losing on BOTH fronts). Except that you don't have neither the fuel nor the logistics or the necessary support personnel for that - you would need the panzer-grenadiers for that much more panzer divisions and you are already conscripting kids and pensioners as it is). To say nothing that IF the heavier German tanks were becoming a serious problem then ALL allies would switch to heavier tanks themselves just like that.
>>64880105Here's the kid I was telling you about.
>>64887956>the engines didn't work and caught fire all the timeU-792, a XVIIA was rigorously trialed. Pic related is the trials log. By 10 October 44, they had already achieved relatively stable 20 knots for 265 minutes, per the logs. That's close enough to an acceptance testThe only fire incident was a dust collector from 12th August 44, where the trial likely didnt even involve walter engine, since it's a surface trial.Source is Vom Original zum Modell, Uboottyp XVII: (Walter-Uboote), p. 29Also, the hazards of HTP combustion were overblown. While it surely required safety measure, A catastrophic loss was hardly going to occur just because engine room mechanic Otto from Dummersdorf started farting uncontrollably after a higher-than-usual protein diet earlier in the day>Der T-Stoff (H2O2 in 80% Konzentration) wurde eingehenden Erprobungen hinsichtlich Beschußsicherheit und seinem Verhalten gegenüber Stoßwellen unterworfen. Das verwendete Produkt zeigte sich hierbei unempfindlich. Es gelang lediglich durch Einsatz starker Sprengkörper in großer Menge und bei starker Verdünnung den Stoff bei einer Konzentration über 86,5 % zu einer Beteiligung an der Reaktion zu bringen. (Hierbei wurde nicht direkt gemessen, sondern die Wirkung der Zerlegung des für den Versuch benutzten Eisenrohres beobachtet, so daß ein eindeutiges Maß für die Explosionswirkung bisher nicht festliegt).Source: Die schnellen Unterseeboote von Hellmuth Walter, p. 21The main problem always was the HTP shortage. Had OKM recognized the potential of this design earlier, whether that would actually have led to accelerated HTP production capacity is debatable, then sure, that's a big assumption. But the Walter engine itself was functional, and HTP storage wasn't nearly as hazardous as many claimed
>>64880029This thread again? Really?No it wouldn't have helped, resources were to tight, equally in men, fuel and metal, and it's not like they could have simply summoned production capabilities out of the aether.Stug maxxing is as retarded as pz4 maxxing.
>>64888457>Stug maxxing is as retarded as pz4 maxxingNot it's not, in fact it is far more practical and strategically wise. As anon mentioned upthread though, by 1942 Germany's problems were of far greater scope than solely what their armored force structure on the ground consisted of. As another anon said, not invading the USSR in 1941 would also have been a good idea.>Reallyback to plebbit
>>64880079Wrong.>>64889259(just to add to what I posted here) Premise of the OP screencap "less heavy tanks"<--whatever that even means, is wrong. (I suspect it's the standard "durrr dey shouldn't have bilt TYYYYYgERS")Again, Germany was giga-fucked and shot both its feet off by the end of 1942. But, after that time the only major armored vehicles in mas production should have been Panther(+Jagdpanther) and Stug IIIs. As I've posted on past threads, all Pz IV chassis and component production should have been relegated to SPGs and SPAAGs. Pz IV had a shitty suspension.
>>64880075>>there was still much room for victory.>losing ground in the East>barely holding on in Italy>Africa is gone>manpower and supply issues fucking everywhere>navy is fucked so starvation is back on the menu>Allies are preparing to land in either France OR the Balkans >Japan, who you can barely call an ally, is stuck in China and getting fucked in the Pacific
One day all of /k/ will understand that nothing Germany did or did not do after November 1942 mattered in any sense other than numbers of casualties and the postwar border between the Allies and USSRIf you are talking about something that happened after the Stalingrad encirclement, it fundamentally does not matterAnd even total German victory at Stalingrad (plausible as of July 1942) just acts as a significant delay more than anything. The only semi-convincing argument I have heard (which prevents me from moving the time back further) is that a truly terrible famine would have afflicted the Soviets without access to the Caucasus, too great for the USA to make up with food shipments.
>>64880131I will never get over the fact how hilariously grandiose and delusional Raeder’s naval domination fantasies were and how much resources he sucked up in an attempt to make them reality.
>>64889429I’d even argue that Germans lost the war the moment that Britain’s morale didn’t break down immediately after the fall of France. To be fair, I can see why Germans thought that the Brits wouldn’t be stubborn enough to fight back after such a disastrous loss in France, but no matter, that was realistically their last shot at getting out of the war before US would eventually get pulled in and decisively fucking Germany under the sheer weight of American industry.
