Is introducing free market style humiliation rituals where you must underbid yourself to get pay raises a good idea for your military?
>>64888110This is stupid, an army is not an organization meant for market rationale, treating it as such will only lead to distortions that will create more morale and retention problems than fix them. It can lead to collusions and in situations of budget cuts it will lead to a bleed out of officers, even competent ones, not to mention bitterness among some officers, that may feel undercut by their equals
>>64888110So, what's stopping everyone from just demanding $10 million, making that the "market rate" for an officer?
>>64888128That’d be probably be considered collective bargaining which is illegal for members of the military to engage in.
>>64888110>market-base approachBut one where the employees aren't allowed to quit, the employer is holding all the cards, information and power, and will abandon the scheme the moment everybody does collective action.>>64888111LMAO, the system doesn't even save money, it's just a humiliation ritual where if it works as intended anybody complaining the bonus is too low doesn't get the bonus.Also introduces a Me vs Them mindset where the Them is your peers and leadership, followed by conspiracy within peers and the suspicion that someone might break the conspiracy - exactly what you want in a military.
>>64888110>want to get rid of some officers>make them rank themselves in order of how low a salary they'd accept>after you have as as few officers as needed >>64888111 kindly make no penalty for them being honest about how low a salary they'd acceptI think it makes sense if you're the child of an economist and an accountant and have a cold reptile concept of how morale works.>>64888128individual self interestTo make it very simple suppose there are 3 officers and "the maximum number of officers wanted" is 2. You, Bill, and Me agree to demand 10 million each. I secretly submit a bid for 9 million because I think even 9 is a wonderful amount of money and really don't want to be the 3rd officer who gets $0. Bill is smarter than both of us and submits a bid for 7 million...you follow the idea.We just imagined 3 friends betraying each other, now imagine a very large number of strangers we can't possibly coordinate with.
Did Hegsie hit the bottle again?
This is when you remember that childhood signs of sociopathy is an accurate predictor for success in finance
>>64888110So we're looking at the super special levels of retardation, advanced, quantified and qualified retards only past this point
>>64888145>Did Hegsie hit the bottle again?>againHe's probably been at least buzzed for several years
>>64888145He’s just distracted bringing his pedo cult pastor to the Pentagon.
>>64888173Its not like its going to make it any less a cum soaked cannibal blood orgy at this point
>>64888110>64888111it sort of makes sense but sure sounds terrible>>64888121calm your tits, this appears to be a one-time survey for pay adjustment, which is long overdue>>64888128the vast majority of people fail the prisoner's dilemma>>64888137go back, Ranjeet>>64888143>it makes sense if you're the child of an economist and an accountant and have a cold reptile concept of how morale worksI AM an accountant and the principle of the system is sound, it's just that the morale / PR / optics / face / whatever of the announcement is really bad
>>64888188>Sure we’re having retention issues but have you considered if you think you’re worth more than average you should just leave?
>>64888155>childhood signs of sociopathy is an accurate predictor for success in financeExpand upon this, please?
>>64888199Their limited or nonexistent emotions makes them fairly good at ignoring some of the biases that can cloud judgment, a lot of them are outwardly charismatic which makes them likable to bosses and co-workers, and the competitive nature of finance lets them thrive because they’ll backstab anyone if it benefits them and that behavior is typically rewarded as long as it’s not messy. It’s the perfect breeding ground for them.
>>64888128Knowing that you almost certainly won't be retained, because everyone else will bid lower than youIf too many people bid too low, a lot of officers will be retained, and the individual bonus will be lower. If too many people bid too high, the number of retained officers will be low and the individual bonuses greater.Because everyone will be receiving the same bonus, even if it exceeds their bid, the optimal move is to bid relatively low to guarantee retention. Without that provision, it would become an exercise in game theory, but we lack enough information to determine the optimal move (such as what number of officers they plan to retain) and have to rely on guesswork
>>64888228The game will be played exactly as expected. Competent and confident people who want a raise will be let go, and the subservient will be bid themselves low to stay.
>>64888145Hegseth has only ever been drunk once. The problem is that it's lasted over ten years.
>>64888232It might also filter out the overly ambitious morons and the people who don't really want to be there but didn't yet find the motivation to quitIf it lets the fairly competent and motivated stay while culling some of the shitbags, I'd say that's a reasonably good outcome, even if some of the really good ones quitThough of course that could've easily been achieved with a simple performance review instead of whatever this retarded scheme is meant to be
It makes sense for Warrants since they are all former Enlisted nigs and build their careers on doing the absolute minimum.They can disappear for hours when on duty so they can suffer on the pay side a bit.
>>64888110It looks like the goal is to minimize labor costs for the Military by flushing institutional know how down the drain. Combine this with the fact that the recruitment “success” that they are crowing about is actually a return to Iraq War levels of waivers, and we’ll see the military deprived of crucial institutional knowledge as the skilled and intelligent soldiers are pushed out by low bidding retards.
>>64888228The optimal move in this scenario is not bid below the current retention bonus. It means that no matter what you're coming out either equal or ahead.
>>64888196> if you think you’re worth more than average you should just leavewe're having retention issues because THEY ARE ALREADY DOING THIS, dipshit
>>64888110Foreverially EddieLampertitized, fully efficient and loving it
>>64888196Private sector is not complaining.
>>64888264Girls are hot
>>64888382It is, constantly. Workers do not care about their jobs in the slightest.
>>64888260>a simple performance reviewOffice politics are a bitch, anon.
>officersThey are warrants
>>64888110>>64888111Of all things, this sounds exactly like the lolbert brainrot that killed Sears. That it's being applied to the Army is insane.
>>64888188It is retarded, because unlike a company where labor is intentionally transient and replaceable, this is a military where camaraderie and cooperation and a feeling of unity with others of your station is a key part of functionality. The principle is not sound, because it fucks with social cohesion in a system that is designed around social cohesion. In the private sector, employees being suspicious of one another is good for the company, most of the time. In the military you want every soldier of any station to think all those around him are his most important as much as is possible. This prisoner's dilemma writ large system is totally contrary to that because now everyone is going to think that someone is fucking them over by lowballing the bonus for the sake of personal advancement.
>>64888495>lolbert brainrot>SearsSears collapsed because their CEO had a contract that paid better if he destroyed the company rather than save it.
>>64888508>*his most important allies
>>64888508>a key part of functionalityIt really isn't. It applies to small portions of the military, the rest just require compliance which can be imposed in other ways.
>>64888517Shh, don't inform him that something like 70% of the military is basically a white collar job where no one can get fired.
>>64888491Sure, but anonymized profiles ranked by objective performance metrics aren't exactly rocket science
>>64888548The problem is that the people most likely to be objective probably not in a position to record those metrics. You cannot rely on any one thing to solve these issues because people will always try to manipulate or cheat the system.
>>64888537>>64888517It really is because of how military hiring practices work and how the structure of advancement is handled. Private companies can rely on external educational systems or experience in rival companies to train employees for them, so they can treat labor as expendable in a more significant way as they can get more. The military takes on far more training costs, has far less flexibility for hiring, and far less ability to grab new labor off the street for positions. This is why camaraderie and a sense of community is far more key for the organization working because you cannot force efficiency through ruthlessness because the system from the ground up isn't built to do that. This issue is that MBA-brain retards think that all organizations are interchangeable and that you can treat the military in the same way that you treat a company that sells software as though officers and computer engineers are the same thing. You dimwits humiliated yourselves under MacNamara but enough time has passed for you to come crawling out from under your slimy rocks acting like you are geniuses again.
>>64888508>dulce et decorum est pro patria depauperarelol no>this is a military where camaraderie and cooperation and a feeling of unity with others of your station is a key part of functionalityso is being paid an above-average salaryyou're not explaining at all how being paid well leads to soldiers>being suspicious of one anotherDescribe the link>now everyone is going to think that someone is fucking them over by lowballing the bonus for the sake of personal advancementthey're already paid less than they ought to be. soldiers already leave the Army for the civilian sector or never join to begin with because they aren't paid competitively. this has been happening for decades.instead of talking out of your ass about morale and whatnot, actually go read up on the reasons volunteer soldiers gave for joining the Army in the Cold War, in the world wars, in the Napoleonic Wars, in the medieval era, even in antiquity. it was always always ALWAYS to earn a higher income than they would have gotten otherwisesure, patriotism, esprit de corps, morale and professionalism is a big thing, a huge thing that sets Western armies apart from the rest. but that's a separate factor from and in addition to, I cannot emphasise this enough, BEING PAID WELL
>>64888553>camaraderie and a sense of communityyeah that and four dollars might get you a cup of StarbucksI'd like to see you try recruiting soldiers by promising lower pay plus>camaraderie and a sense of community
>>64888565If anything it should lead to higher pay because everyone is going to baseline at their current pay and private sector pay is largely going to define the ceiling.
>>64888110>humiliation rituals where you must underbid yourself to get pay raisesHuh? Elaborate please.
>>64888128>So, what's stopping everyone from just doing something that will benefit everyone equallyHuman nature my guy.And in this expample also budgetary restaints, that's just not a realistic ask.
>FlexibleMy experience is that for the working man, no matter the profession, that term signals danger more often than not
>>64888573Shit pay and esprit de corps has been working for the last 250 years.
>>64888510>their CEO had a contract that paid better if he destroyed the company rather than save it.Like he said, lolbert brainrot.It’s not like Sears even needed saving. It just was more profitable for the share holders and CEO to liquidate the company’s assets than it was to continue normal operations. It used to be that it was a crime to do what happened to Sears, but our Lord and Savior Deregulation changed that.
>>64888655do you think those people didn't get paid? Didn't get to rape/pillage?
>>64888495Kek I came into this thread to make this same comparison>>64888510The double-dealing that Eddie Lampert supposedly benefited from wasn't a clause in his contract but rather him giving loans to the company in exchange for deliberately undervalued claims on their real estate and other assets* and he only started doing that ~10 years into his ownership as a last resort to try to save some of his fortune after the company began collapsing, which was in part (but not entirely) due to his dumb as shit strategy of pitting each department against each other.(*: He also ended up losing money on this over the long-run due to lawsuits and the fact that commercial real estate prices collapsed before he could offload everything, but that's unrelated.)
>>64888695I said "shit pay", not "no pay", ESL-kun.
This is especially fucking stupid because it's targeted at the Warrant Officer cohort, aka the cohort of technical experts who are specifically retained to be subject matter experts and technical advisors. It's not like these are commissioned officers where the Army can afford to dumpster 3/4 of every year group.MBAs are a cult.
>>64888110That's an idea so retarded that it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to learn it came directly from Pete Hegseth from himself.
>>64888803I thought Gunnery Sergeants were the technical experts. How many technical experts does a rank structure need?
>>64888121If the military resorts to "market based solutions" to worker pay then obviously service members are just employees who need to unionize.
>>64888824First of all that's a USMC rank (and a bog standard PSG rank at that, not any kind of "technical expert") and this article is about the Army (though the USMC has warrants too). Second of all, the WO cohort exists specifically to let people be technical experts *without* having to be involved in admin shit or command. This isn't needed in fields like Infantry or Armor because the "technical" skills are so mated to the day-to-day operations of the chain of command, but in fields like intel, cyber, logistics, signal, or maintenance, there is a whole world of deeper knowledge and skills that your average NCO is too busy dealing with his soldiers to really learn well and your average officer is not going to have time to take on before he has to go take a platoon or company or fuck off to the staff.
>>64888553>so they can treat labor as expendable in a more significant way as they can get more.Actually, in most cases they cant, particulary if they require technical competence.
>>64888111What's the exact punishment for overbidding? Reduced bonus compared to underbidders? No bonus at all?
>>64888969They will determine how much they're willing to pay, presumably taking the bids into account. Then everyone who bid over that number will be given the boot, and everyone who bid under will be retained and given the determined bonusYeah, it's pretty dumb
>>64888110This is so mind-bogglingly stupid it's difficult to comprehend. Especially for warrants, like what the fuck? I've known for a while that Hegseth is retarded, but fuck, the guy at least made it to O-4. He should know that for the past 10+ years retention has been an even bigger problem than recruitment, ESPECIALLY for warrants. And the point of this is what, to save a tiny bit of cash by decreasing bonus pay? Are you fucking kidding me? Federal jobs already routinely offer officers a pay bump good enough to forgo the military pension, and yet Hegseth thinks it's a good idea to make the gap even bigger? He isn't just retarded, or out of his mind, he has to be both retarded AND out of his mind simultaneously>t. Army O-2E
>>64888128>So, what's stopping everyone from just demanding $10 millionpablo will do it for 10 bucks
>>64889086He probably interacted with a warrant like twice as an officer and came away genuinely believing they're all lazy fat dudes who never show up to work or however the memes go.
>>64889058OP image says >overbidding increases the chance of missing out on a bonusThey're definitely not going to kick out WOs for overbidding.
>>64888110>adding financial pressure that will inevitably outweigh tactical and strategic concernsShiggy Diggy.
>>64888803This. If you want fewer Warrant Officers you can just make fewer Warrant Officers. Making a person with a judged high utility bid against himself in order to keep his job is not a game that anyone with a brain is going to want to play. A salary is supposed to be a carrot, you're not supposed to be asked, "How much destitution are you willing to accept lest we upend your life?"
>>64888121Worse yet, won't this cause soldiers to be incentivized to sell out their peers, or possibly even the military/ the US eventually?
>>64888110>Free market>Within a government institution Anon.
>>64888590Amerimutts are so cucked by the ZOG that they will willingly undercut themselves and thier peers for the privilege of being Israeli cannon fodder.
>>64888110New HR humiliation ritual. Just fucking increase based on seniority, and always guarantee a yearly inflation increase.
