UAE shooting down Shaheds with aircraft guns.This ends the narrative about shooting down cheap drones with expensive Patriots.source with sound: https://x.com/modgovae/status/2030664175811199400
>>64946686No doubt they're only drones, and shitty ones at that, but I can't help feeling a slight thrill at the sight of GUNS GUNS GUNS once moreWhat a throwback
A-10 will survive as mobile drone hunter. Terminator series told us about this.
>>64946686i love the footage coming out of this. real fucking neato
This is great until the drones start being used to hunt the Apaches being used to shoot down the drones
>>64946759Russia is ATTEMPTING to do this, but I haven't heard of a single Geran shooting down a Ukrainian helicopter or airplane yet
>>64946686but we're shooting down cheap drones with even cheaper drones. The seeker costs $15000 and can be deployed from the bed of a nissan shitbox.
>>64946686>This ends the narrative...It doesn't. They'll keep parroting it for the rest of time.
>>64946792UAE ordered 5000 drone interceptors from Ukraine. There's also the American Merops system. In the meantime, this is a working solution.
>>64946759fucking what
>>64946686and they said drone warfare would be the end of kino
>>64946686Looks like the UAE is holding pretty strong right now.
Meanwhile Saudis are using air defense missiles to shoot down Shaheds.https://x.com/WarMonitors/status/2030679090475229289big difference in competence
>>64946858- Russians got ass blasted that ukies have installed MANPADS onto their sea drones and shot down helicopters, which were used to hunt down the sea drones. - Thus, russians installed some AA missiles onto their shaheed drones with the goal of shooting down defensive ukie air assets;
For quite some time now: https://x.com/fortifiedtaras/status/2020586976118972499
>>64946686Its AH-64 shooting? Right?
>>64946946Fighter jets toohttps://x.com/blocksixtynine/status/2030682796315046325
>>64946920you use the weapons you have at the moment. you don't say fuck it. nobody has a machine gun near those drones, so just let em hit their targets.
>>64946731Thought the same thing
>>64946971Maybe. But all guncams from OP are AH-64, its AH-64 HUD, 600 rpm fire fate and some times you can trajectory of shells and they are rainbow (like M230 has).That against brings that point that i posted many times here. Aircraft's needs trainable gun pods to hunt shaheds. This allow to come at parallel course firing to teh side not right from behind, this puts aircraft outside debris cloud of exploding drone. Also aiming gun via gun pod by FCS is more accurate than doing it manually turning entire aircraft. AH-64 has trainable gun good, unfortunately AH-64 is rather sloe 290 km/h vs 190 km/h of propeller Shahed and while AH-64 can catch it it takes more time than you want and helicopter can cover very limited area and intercept low numbers of drones per sortie because of that. Jets zooming 1000 km/h can do much much better but they dont have such gun pods and MIC is sitting on the dicks despite shaheds been menace for 3 year a already.
>>64946946in the video yes, it's an AH-64E M-TADS display
>>64946779I'm guessing ukies won't even get close to them with helos anymore for the exact reason that some of them carry AA missiles
>>64947078Also looks like Ukrainians have abundance of Sting interceptor drones now.
>>64946686>drones have made attack choppers obsolete!>UAE:
>>64946686>UAE shooting down Shaheds with aircraft guns.>This ends the narrative about shooting down cheap drones with expensive Patriots.Although let's be clear: flight time for a jet or helicopter isn't CHEAP either, though a stupendous upgrade vs a missile. For the F-35 cost per flight hour is estimated at somewhere between $30-50k depending. My assumption is that on drone duty it'll be at the low end of the spectrum, because the fighter wouldn't be required to push its engine or frame at all, it's a pretty easy light role. So that's not terrible at all, could easily be a much better then 1:1 cost ratio.There's still the issue of scaling and response time however, and it'd still be better if the cost was even cheaper. So I don't think it's a replacement for developing better automated laser a flak turrets. But way better then pissing away incredibly valuable and low quantity interceptors on a flying lawnmower.
>>64947113BTW Russian jet Shahed mod can be very dangerous to helicopters if equipped with video link. As helicopter you dont want 500 km/h Shahed chasing you.
>>64946686>Target destroyed>Target destroyed>Target destroyed>Target destroyedKino>The future will have attack helicopters lobbing things like Barracuda-Ms and then intercepting the REDFOR equivalents of
>>64947120You don't need to use F-35s or even real fighters. Jet trainer, vectored in to commit to the final engagement with a gunpod and EO pod probably works well enough. Still faster than any helicopter and low cost flight hours wise.
>>64946731Holy based
>>64946731>Terminator series told us about this.Sarah Conner Chonicales?
>>64946905Impressive.
>>64946920Wouldn't be surprised if it is something as simple as defensive counter air is not an attack helicopter mission. lol
>>64947022>Aircraft's needs trainable gun pods to hunt shaheds. This allow to come at parallel course firing to teh side not right from behind, this puts aircraft outside debris cloud of exploding drone.How about a modernized OV10 Bronco with a modernized gun turret. Add some guided rocket also and it should do the job.Pretty cheap to run, better endurance and speed than choppers, doesn't need much logistics.Could also be used for low intensity/counter insurgency (like it was planned at some point, even used in Iraq at some point) so not single purpose expense just for drones that could be hard to justify...
>>64947385Ukraine was already using crop dusters with a gun mounted in the back like it was ww1the idea solution is really just an A-10 with like 120 of those laser guided rockets. Big loiter time, big badda boom
>>64946686its nothing new idf shot down tons of these with apaches and f16 guns + a lot of other armies in the area did this
>>64947427Sure. But IDF videos are gay and blurry.https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/2028934162585899438
what's the difference between drones and cruise missilesdrones are just missiles that cruise
>>64947434some of the idf vids are blurred on purpose but those apache gunshight videos are low res just because its a very old low-res system>>64947435shahed 136 is a propeller driven cruise missiledrone implies actual remote piloting like someone's looking through a camera, LUCAS is a drone for example (but can also be used as just a cruise missile)
>>64947435cruise missles are jet powered drones
>>64946686it must feel good unquestionably defending your homeland from religious nutjobswish we could do the same
>>64946731Not fast enough to get a proper operational radius.
>>64947127Sounds like a relatively cheap and low power laser can use glare to fuck with video link.
>>64947419>laser guided rocketsDoesn't this defeat the point? We're looking for cheap munitions to spend intercepting cheap munitions.
>>64947593APKWS is cheap.
This is almost certainly retarded, but wouldn’t a commercial double prop plane modified with a couple machine guns in an old WWII style turret work for this?
>>64947078>>64946759It's not trivial to add AA capabilities to them, just slapping a igla to them makes it hard to actualy aim and the more capabilities you add to these drones, like a real targeting system, the more expensive they get until the economy factor is not in your side anymore and they become a waste.
>>64947078There was a video not too long ago of a door gunner taking one out with a minigun
>>64947984
>>64947385Time to bring back the P-61 Black Widow
On a side note, the new Ayatollah has been chosen. Start the clock.
Iran is just going easy on them now before they do their actual big strike soon. They've identified all of the locations where air defense systems are located. The ME is fucked.
>>64948004And... He's gone.
Has anyone tried picrel on a shahed?
>>64948047Sauce?
>>64947949Not fast enough. Fast jets can move to kill zones and hunt down drones quickly.
>>64946923Did it work? Would it work if brown people like pro-regime iranians do this?
>>64948097First source I foundhttps://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/iran-names-new-supreme-leader-after-ayatollah-killed-in-us-iran-war/ar-AA1XMzkcAnyway, who wants to be on the next Ayatollah surviving for more than an hour before getting bombed?
>>64948405This says he was elected, not that he's already gone. Or maybe I'm dumb and misunderstood that post?
>>64947998Perfect kino
>>64946779They started strapping Igla's onto them. They haven't killed anything yet
>>64948440>>64948446Gerans are a lot bigger than I thought. Are the Shaheds this big, or did the Russians scale the thing up?
>>64948450They're about the same I think. There's not just one Shahed model though
>>64948440>>64948446So what happens when the igla launch destroys the motor?
>>64948093I wouldn't to take the risk with a switch inside having an oopsie daisy setting to make it destruct because they do have a fair bit of explosive in it.
>>64947022Guns on turrets are obviously superior but WW2 fighters had no trouble surviving with wing-mounted guns.
>>64947593Just print more money.
>>64947435Propeller = droneJet = cruz missile
>>64948857
>>64948093defeats the purpose of having a fuel efficient engine that allows them to have 1000+ km range
>>64948916He means flipping it with your wingtip.
>>64948497>So what happens when the igla launch destroys the motor?Who cares because you just fired a shot at some Ukrainian Yak trainer or what ever propeller plane with a machine gun mounted to it. It checks out from an economic standpoint. Even if you don't shoot any ukies down it will frigthen then into keeping their distance/only attacking from certain directions which gives the Geran more time to hit targets
>>64948845Akshually they had similar problems intercepting V-1. From long range they couldn't hit small target. From close range directly behind interceptors were in danger been hit by fragments and debris of V-1 explosion. This is why fighter pilots came up with goofy tactics of flipping V-1 wing with their own wing contact.
>>64948093>>64948963I would think modern flight controllers are able to pretty easily correct for stuff like this in a way the V-1 couldn't.
>>64946731I was thinking the same thing about Apache longbows. Between stacking rocket pods with simple guided rockets and adding airburst ammo for the 30mm you have mobile drone hunters that can act as loitering defense for oilfields and the like. Shit, the Ukies are doing it with old MI-17 helicopters and open sights on door guns like this is ‘Nam. Looks like Japan might be a bit premature cutting their gun ship program.
>>64946759It's common knowledge even a helicopter can dogfight most drones on the market today. When compared to manned aircraft, the bulk of them have specs comparable to frames from the 20s and 30s.
Aaaand they've crashed oneNo doubt hit by debris from one of these drones when it exploded, just like what happened with a number of Ukrainian MiG-29s and F-16s when doing gun attacks on dronesThis is why the US uses APKWS and missiles
>>64947999Nobody brings up the P61 in turret fighter mocking threads
>>64947385>>64947999Anyone still got the design schematics?
>>64946686>This ends the narrative>>64946706>feeling a slight thrill at the sight of GUNS GUNS GUNS once more>What a throwbackwhy are retards pretending that guns weren't doing a significant chunk of the work in Ukraine? Drone interceptors are only now coming into widespread use.Also, gunpod camera footage isn't kino. Kino is miniguning shaheds out of your soviet shitbox as you feel the steppe wind on your bare chest.
>>64948497An aircraft kill is worth the loss of a drone, a launch that attacking aircraft have to react to is arguably worth the loss of a drone in that it will affect how they approach in future encounters. The igla is facing forward, do they expect to fly these things to get a firing solution? Id put claymores facing behind and up, with a camera so it can be remote detonated if an aircraft approaches, or at least extra shrapnel facing behind in case the attacking aircraft detonates the drone.
>>64947949>but wouldn’t a commercial double prop plane modified with a couple machine guns in an old WWII style turret work for this?Ukraine has been doing that, too, except it's the wizzo (your prop plane has a weapons officer wit ha weapon, right?) with the gun.
>>64950318mostly for rus recon drones though
>>64946686Fighter going for gun kill on shaheed is risking the plane. Fighters are even more expensive than patriot missiles. That is why US prefers to use AKWPS rockets on 'em.
>>64946731Nah, the GAU is overkill and the entire platform is unsuited for air-to-air. Something like the Super Tucano or AT-6 is a far better option if you want a piloted drone interceptor.
>>64950324>a bunch of drones>a pelican?>a fucking cloud??what the fuck are they doing up there
>>64950508>>64950515Stork.They're endemic to that part of the world, and it's a good luck sign if a mating pair builds a summer neat on your chimney But yea idk what the non-drone marks mean.
>>6494799899z bros our time is near.
No shit, Ukraine has been doing this for years
>>64950515>Stork.No it's a pelican. Dalmatian pelican and great white pelican are migratory to the Danube Delta that enters the Black Sea between Romania and Ukraine
>>64949991M'yep, it was bound to happen. IIRC ukie air command banned gun engagements specifically because it caused aircraft and (arguably worse) pilot losses. They even lost some of those prop trainers. Now it's either missiles-only, or interceptor drones and ground AA.
I mean, this isn't new or particularly impressive.
>>64946946>>64947041I was gonna say, that looks suspiciously like an Apache gunsight.
>>64950521>>64950568You fucking idiots, thats a grey heron
>>64950701it's clearly yellow though...
>>64947419MQ-9 with APKWS is cheaper, has longer loiter time, etc.
>>64948426There were rumors that he had been killed in the initial strikes. He hasn't demonstrated proof of life since, and some folks are therefore claiming that the mullahs are faking his survival in order to use him as a figurehead. It'll be a while before the truth comes out.
>>64946686Neat!
>>64948098>jetsSounds expensive.
>>64947593APKWS is 22 000 USD per system (which you attach to old Hydra rockets).Anything that shoots Hydra, can shoot APKWS.
>>64948440>>64948446>russians are providing AA assets to ukrainians how nice of them
>>64946686>actual footage of the UAE stopping Iranian droneshttps://youtu.be/WpRaPK5qjgs?si=5ohJPZtN9CbNUm4h&t=114Grok is this AI?
>>64950515Probably means they survived a birdstrike and flying through a particularly rough thunderstorm. Kill markers can be tongue-in-cheek at times.
>>64950824It isn't about loiter time, it's about speed to target.
>>64950701>>64950568>>64950521Hello /an/
>>64950927>Anything that shoots Hydra, can shoot APKWS.APKWS needs a longer launcher than standard hydraAnd you need a laser designator. Which obviously not all hydra platforms have
>>64946731>>goes through all cannon ammo in 17 secondsnah
>>64951201Please indicate what modern airframe you think is incapable of mounting a TGP if it doesn't come with one internally.
>>64951289>what modern airframemoving goalposts eh?
>>64951303Sorry, people assume you're not retarded and don't need to mention that we're not digging F-4s out of the boneyard, but instead using things we already have in the area. Even the fucking glorified crop duster that SOCOM ordered has a TGP, so unless you'd like to provide an example of something that might actually see the modern battlefield because the US isn't Russia where glorious 1970s Soviet technology is the best they've got, you'll continued to be called a retard for thinking that needing a laser is a problem for slinging APKWS, and even moreso now there's APKWS2 coming out that adds a fire and forget IR sensor for like an additional 10k
>>64947385>How about a modernized OV10 Bronco with a modernized gun turret.Thing is that aircraft doesn't exist. You need to produce new aircraft, train crew it's years. Also it's kinda slow against jet Shahed mid.But everybody have fighter Jews already. Deployed, crew trained and combat ready. Only problem they lack effective weapon system. Add such gunpods and already existing everywhere airpower can be used extremely effectively to kill Shahed drones.
>>64951333>APKWS, and even moreso now there's APKWS2APKWS II is still laser guided. The dual-mode version is a subvariant of APKWS IIOriginal APKWS was a separate program won by General Dynamics but cancelled ~2006 due to unreliability of the guidance kit.APKWS II is for the most part just a version with a better performing guidance kit, made by BAE and has been in use since 2012
Why not spam Super Tucanos instead?
>>64951891can ANYONE answer this man's questionit seems logical to mesomeone get Brazil on the phone
>>64947589If you can aim a low power laser at the optics, you can aim a gun at literally any part of it.
>>64951891>why not use your existing airframes when you can buy brand new ones that are useless outside of exactly this and will be outmoded once DEW systems are finalized and start to proliferate?
Should be mass buying M320 chain guns and RWS mounts to stick on a billion Humvees to give basic SHORAD against drones anywhere.
>>64951923Don't the Gulf states have trainer and prop planes with guns?Did they seriously just buy F-16s/F-15s with no trainers?
>>64946731Let. Her. Retire.
>>64948047He's not gone, just had to have his leg amputated
>>64949991Why are arabs so fucking bad at war?
>>64951906>>64951891>>64950508Super Tucano's have a unit cost, at a minimum, of $10m. With normal avionics fit they start at a bit over $15m but go as high as >$20m.The unit cost of an A10 is $14.25m today and is vastly more capable.Super Tucanos are wildly overpriced and I will not be convinced that there are not people paid to shill for it on the internet.>but muh cost per flying hourThey're lying about that too. They don't cost $1000 an hour to fly, their cost per flying hour in 2013 was between $3000 and $4000 (in the same year the A-10 was $17000, but it was a set of 40 year old airframes and engines that had been flown in warzones, thrown around in G limited manoeuvres, and were still being used in theatre and for weapons employment). If you did those things with COIN aircraft, they'd cost even more too.COIN aircraft are not cheap. Just build a new attack aircraft FFS lol. It will cost veeeery slightly more, but it will be far better value.
>>64951998Replace her first instead of pretending that BAI and CAS are the same mission.
>>64951906We have to wait for the Brazilian election for that. Right now Brazil is a Chinese ally
>>64952047To get rich is glorious Xi-Legally they are obligated to sell us Tucanos
>>64952031They operate as a highly centralized, paranoid, self antagonistic, honor based, feudal society. Officers don’t share information, delegate to, or trust equal or lower ranked officers. The royal family uses complex balance of power schemes to prevent anyone from gaining power, which includes combined arms training. They actively discourage reason and rely heavily on rote memorization. Their caste system means only officers know how to fix things, but they refuse to since that would show them equal to the enlisted/peasants, leading to nothing working. They do not cross train since it reduces personal prestige which is highly important to their honor. The officers consider the enlisted expendable, and the enlisted hate military service and the officers. All the weird shit we’ve seen, basically tracks. The F15s that were shot down can be attributed to every country lying to and stabbing each other in the back, meaning no country trusts any other country. The weird response by the military including the attack on Azerbaijan can be attributed to the person in charge taking no initiative and continuing on with a memorized plan. Chinese AD and radar not working can be attributed to only a handful of officers knowing how to operate and repair them leading to rapid failure. The ship that got torpedoed leaving port was probably partially because the captain did not want to lose honor and did not receive any orders to surrender leading to his bizarre behavior. Basically a decapitation strike will lead to the whole thing coming unraveled and power battles by potential candidates while they’re being blown to shit.
>>64952035>The unit cost of an A10 is $14.25m today and is vastly more capable.No radar. Just because a plane can heft more and go faster doesn't make it "more capable" when you're not looking for speed or towing capacity.
>>64951038The markers on Balls-8 got pretty silly at times.
>>64953575>No radar.Neither does the Super Tucano at that price point.>Just because a plane can heft more and go faster doesn't make it "more capable" when you're not looking for speed or towing capacity.Point in fact, hefting more stores while still being better protected from ground fire, still having better countermeasure systems and still having better flight characteristics is literally just better for an attack aircraft. If you built an A10 today the same avionics fit cost would buy you contemporary avionics, not 1970s ones with 1970s capabilities.Super Tucanos are just terrible value for money. They're such shit value for money that they border on a scam. It's nuts that the Air Force has managed to swindle their way totally out of all forms of the attack mission other than BAI and outsourced attack aircraft procurement onto SOCOM, and the result is so little institutional experience in the endeavour that people are backpatting themselves for procuring militarised crop dusters with unit prices 1/3 higher than the more capable aircraft they will actually replace.
>>64947127It can't manoeuvre to chase. Every turn decimates its velocity and its acceleration is meagre.
>>64947242They're still tethered to airfields. Helicopters can be placed almost anywhere like a picket fence.
>>64949426The air frames probably have poor spin recovery though.
>>64953575Man, that immediately takes me back to playing Tiberian Dawn.
Miss me yet?
>>64954100OV-10 II it is then I guess.
>>64951521>fighter Jews
>>64948093Sheeds have cameras and try to connect to ukie phone networks. when they do zigger operators can force a remote detonation. too risky
>>64954260>Sheeds have cameras and try to connect to ukie phone networksThose are Gerbers, or at least custom Gerans.Shaheeds are kind of obsolete at this point, though there's evidence that Russia has provided upgrade components and field data back to Iran. Everything attacking Ukraine these days has several enhancements from the original Shaheed 136.
>>64949420>>64948845WWII fighters also didn't have a giant vacuum up front and delicate, delicious turbine blades a single decent-sized bolt will irretrievably fuck.
>>64956728>>64948845You vastly underestimate the difficulty of shooting down V-1's, they carried a LOT more explosive mass than the average drone nowadays, and quite a few fighters were caught by the warhead exploding (which is why they came up with the wing tip technique). The only thing making more difficult for modern fighters is having to slow down to near stall speed to avoid flying into the explosion, which in turn can make you crash into the ground.It's no accident that even back then, the best counter to the V-1 problem were radar guided anti air guns firing proximity fuses, which made the interception rate jump from 17% from manned aa guns with regular shells to 82%. Of corse, modern drones are not limited to flying in straight lines or launched from very few areas, but i'm surprised we haven't seen airdropped automated AA turrets yet.
>>64954126what the fuck that's actually brilliantdid it work?
>>64948093Ah yes, bump the exploding shitbox with your multi million dollar plane.
>>64954126>>64956917>>64956917>what the fuck that's actually brilliant>did it work?NTA and no idea.
>>64956917>>64958766>Did it work?Yes, with quite a few issues.https://youtu.be/U1oGinBWZME?si=KR9BcxmzMJju-RZDThe biggest reason why the usaf decided it wasn't worth it is because the lethal range of any gun turret fighter would be equal or worse than the range of the defensive turrets in the bombers they were trying to intercept and shoot down, which is why at first tried replacing guns with salvos of unguided rockets, and then guided missiles. But that wouldn't be a problem if the target was a defenseless drone...
Lol. We aren`t europoor, we can afford to pay to destroy it and every Shahed without care about it.
>>64959597>which is why at first tried replacing guns with salvos of unguided rocketsThat was a hilarious period.Remember that incident where they had a runaway Hellcat converted into a target drone and two F-89s that tried to intercept it fired 200+ rockets at it without hitting it even once, but damaging multiple buildings and starting fires that burned down >1000 acres in the process?>>64948093The only reason this worked on V1s was because they were guided by a pair of simple gyros that could be overridden like thos.If you tried this on a shasneed, it would simply correct its course.
>>64960675Image the difference in outcome if they have just had a pair of .50s onboard each Scorpion. Imagine the outcome if they had merely left the fucking gun sights in the aircraft lol. That has to be one of the dumbest US military boondoggles I've read about.>Two men in Placerita Canyon had been eating in their utility truck>right after they left it to sit under the shade of a tree, a rocket struck the truck, destroying it.Fuckin hell lol.
>>64960888>>64960675Skill issuehttps://youtube.com/watch?v=Qa5twqd7oco
>>64961343>Arkaden>just randomly flailing around until you get a shot on someone ever so slightly more inept than you
>>64946905Damn impressive.
>>64947999We need to bring back f9f with emerson turret
>>64946686So this is the new "dogfighting" shooting drones to save money
>>64950296No one gives a shit about slav trench shitflinging. Iran is the real deal modern war.
>>64947385A-10 Assholes killed OV-10 never forget
>>64965508How was this thing aimed, anyway?
>>64953681The comparison is even worse with the A-37:>Faster >Cheaper>More weapons >Operates off rough runways
>>64946686Can't drones carry a duo APKWS rockets and hit helos or slow moving air-air targets?
>>64966184There was a radar between the guns that locked onto bombers from below or side and calculated for lead:>>64954126
>>64946905putting that oil money to use.
