the tech arms race of this war is kinda amazing i predicted this 1y ago and now there's video
>>64952081got sauce? very interesting
>>64952081>i predicted thisCitation required.
>>64952179Don't question quasiemodo
Like, laser guidance?Or lasers to destroy other drones?
I did not see this coming, but I can totally see a basic bitch 10w Amazon laser fucking up an unprotected fiberoptic cable with the thinnest of sheathes.Of course they'll just give the cables heavier jackets, but that's not something done quickly and will need the drone range.
source
>>64952081Whatever that is at the bottom of the mp4 looks like a penis.
>>64952265Everything is penis..t freuding
>>64952219the drone has a laser on it that is uses to shoot at the fiber optic cable of the other drone. they use bare unshielded fiber optics because otherwise the cable would be like x5 times heavier and the drone would suck.the laser penetrates the fiber optic cable, and overloads the fiber optic module (that translates laser into electric signals) so the video signal from the fiber optic drone is cut.>>64952265rpg7 warhead probably
>>64952219Looks like it's a drone with a high powered laser that's sweeping the ground with it and destroying fiber optic wires.
>>64952276it doesnt destroy the wires the laser light enters the wires and hits both sides of the wire (the operator and the drone) and jams the fiber optic modules at either ends of the wire.ukranians expect russian sitter/ambush drones on a road so they send out their own laser drone ahead and the laser drone sweeps the road with a high power laser neutralizing any drones on the road
>fiber drones can't be ja-ACK
>>64952301it is like x100 harder to jam fiber than jamming rf its just not IMPOSSIBLE
>>64952292Actually fascinating. I wonder what the next level would be. An even smaller drone trying to ambush the hunte seeker drone?
>>64952409AI drone that detects when it's pinged with 1310/1550nm IR laser and launches with a blast frag warhead
>>64952409shahed-like plane drone that sweeps the entire frontline with a high power laser like a laser firewall. and when friendlies do strikes they coordinate with you so you dont laser their fiber (turn off laser when flying over this coordinate).seems far fetched but who knows
>>64952292>ukranians expect russian sitter/ambush drones on a road so they send out their own laser drone ahead and the laser drone sweeps the road with a high power laser neutralizing any drones on the roadGod damn, thats crazy smart
>>64952409option B: attenuative coating on the outside of the feed fibers. Jackets would be too stiff/heavy but you could probably coat the fibers with a paint/polymer that could absorb just enough light to prevent the laser from frying your comms module.That or design a comms module which can survive being blasted with 20 dBm of laser power so that the drone flyover only temporarily jams your system rather than knocking it out.
>>64952423I mean, either way you're increasing costs, so there's less strikes against you. I suspect a more powerful comms module would raise costs significantly, and you could defeat it by just using an even more powerful laser, though you'd probably have to make sure your guys are all equipped with laser goggles so they aren't blinded by the lightshow. The coating would probably be the cheaper way to defeat this, though being a non-standard addition, it'd raise costs significantly as well
>>64952081That's very cool on its own, but it reminds me of something I've been expecting to see (lol) for years, but haven't: Drones using lasers as blinding weapons. It doesn't seem particularly difficult to put a drone together that shoots a laser at enemy troops. I envision (lol) it as something like: >Semi-autonomous drone big enough to hold a laser and extra battery and enough computing power for basic facial recognition >Laser, like 1 watt (or 10 for overkill, fuck it) >Some sort of computer-controlled mechanical thing to aim the laser And its usage would be: >Infantry deploy drone(s) upon expecting or seeing combat >Drone flies overhead and fires laser at anything resembling a human face (maybe use IR strobes or something so it doesn't lase friendlies) >Enemies now risk getting blinded every time they stick their head out >Good luck defending your trench when you can't look in the general direction of the assaulters >Good luck assaulting a target you can't look in the general direction of >Good luck trying to shoot down a small drone hundreds of feet in the air that is the source of your blindness Obviously this laser isn't nearly lethal, but compared to an M4 shooting ~900 RPM, a laser would be "shooting" hundreds of times per second (say it takes single-digit milliseconds to blind someone) without recoil or reloading. And how combat-effective is a blind infantryman? Maybe slightly more effective than a dead one. There are counters and drawbacks to this of course, I'm not saying this is the endgame of warfare, but it seems doable and effective enough that I'm surprised we haven't seen it yet. And of course there's that UN convention banning laser weapons, but Russians have been blowing up civilians for four years and the UN doesn't seem to give a shit, so I wouldn't expect them to do anything about this either. Hell, I don't see why terrorists couldn't do this regularly in random cities. Apologies, I am autistic and coming up on Adderall™.
>>64952468If you can shoot a blinding laser at someone, you can just shoot them instead.You already need to find the target, have direct line of sight to it and hit a specific spot.I just don't see how it's useful at all besides some morale effect that can't be stronger than what explosives and bullets already do.
>>64952493it works better from the air and it's easier to carry and fire a laser from a gimbal on the move than any gun
>>64952493Guns are heavy and innacurate.Blinding tier lights are arguably viable simply because of how easy they are to ain at peoples eyes on a janky platform due to the speed of light itself and the hillarious ease it takes to angle a crystal using electrons to aim.Incapacition is the aim of the game.
>>64952501>>64952515still can't see this being any better than dropping grenades from drones
>>64952081So who's using it against who?
>>64952515It's the same reason chemical weapons weren't used in WWII. Both sides realize that it can easily be answered with goggles that block common laser wavelengths, so outside of the initial surprise factor, it's not going to be a major problem beyond supplying said goggles to the front, but does invite retaliation of like methods so now you need to supply your guys with goggles as well and then the only real effect it'll have is on civilians in the area and neither side wants to have to deal with a blinding laser drone flying through their cities past the front, with Moscow being substantially more vulnerable as we saw with all those quad copter attacks on the Kremlin's flag but Ukraine needing to keep the war relatively clean to keep Western arms flowing. It's simply not efficient enough at doing anything other then unironic warcrimes to be worth committing said warcrimes.
>>64952468Besides the obvious of anti-laser glasses preventing your drone from being effective, and forcing you to scale up power and also carry different wavelengths of lasers. How are drones going to A: target people’s faces, and B: not friendly fire your own troops?
>>64952275>overloads the fiber optic moduleThat's kind of brilliant because its most optic tx-rx modules tended to be sketchy when it came to how much dB they could handle, even if its not cooked its likely gone into a shutdown or somethinng
>>64952081I just noticed that the amperage reading on the right jumps from 0.3 to +100 as the laser scans over the cable. I assume this is the current draw?
>>64952081I thought this was gonna be about laser-based communication so I'm a little disappointed >>64952292so this method requires constant lasing on a pretty fine target? it sounds like if you ever come off target it should regain control
>>64952786Fiber optic receivers are quite delicate, if you watch the video you'll notice the brief sweep over the fibre broke the connection.
>>64952522>still can't seeOf course you can't you lasered eyes blind fag lmao
>>64952695>Both sides realize that it can easily be answered with goggles that block common laser wavelengthsUse 3 laser of different colors: yellow, green and blue and you can't block them. Googles that block all these wavelength would be black.Only real solution would be video googles, burned up cameras you can replace.
>>64952701>How are drones going to A: target people’s facesAI.>and B: not friendly fire your own troops?Same way artillery fragments don't target your own troops.
>>64952468Blinding people with lasers is frowned upon just like burning them with flamethrowers or napalm.
>>64952930Castrating POWs and raping them with beer bottles is frowned upon too but here we are.
>>64952081Very pretty, like a shooting star.>>64952265>Whatever that is at the bottom of the mp4 looks like a penis.
>"Bro, there's literally NO COUNTER to fiber optic spools on drones, Ukraine should just give up now xaxaxaxa">Ukraine figures out how to fry the fiber optic cable with laserI'm increasingly of the opinion that Ukrainian brains and innovation was propping up the Soviet Union for 50 odd years
The future is dazzling.
>>64952947the artists here were basically nostradamusits eery how accurate this became
>>64952695>Both sides realize that it can easily be answered with goggles that block common laser wavelengthsLOL I can just imagine the shit the Russians will give their vatniks. Remember the Saran Wrap tents? Or the penguin thermal protection suit? Or the "one crutch per unit, when the man with the crutch gets killed, the next man gets to use the crutch until he gets killed!"
>>64952900Auto-darkening filters are a thing, and those protect against welders which produce light in every goddamn spectrum short of X-rays.
>>64952947Finally, the laser wars we wuz promised
>>64952415I was actually thinking this morning about the planes that that a bar like device on that that could pick up command wires I saw in Afganistan, and wether something similar could be used to find fiber optics in Ukraine.
>>64952081>the tech arms race of this war is kinda amazingхaхaхa the mighty CCCP is 40 years ahead as usual #aнaлoгoвнeт
>>64952983There are machines with 100-200m long wires with hooks that constantly spin, when fiber lands on them it spins it around and breaks cable
>>64952265benis of death
>>64952983I think a drone deploying a metal, conductive wire and laying that down parallel to the road would work. Deploys wire then it periodically gets current applied from a base station. Will melt fiber optic cables laying on it. Also possibly start forest fires
>>64952943You'd be correct for the most part. Sadly that includes leadership and KGB and other not so nice part of the USSR aparatus.
>>64952984Speaking of shit that went nowhere, I wonder what happened to the Zadira-Peresvet laser that was supposed to stop everything from drones to ballistic missiles?
>>64953022I won't say it won't work, but the current needed to melt fibers would have to be very large to cover such a distance, and the wire would have to be quite large to carry that current or it would simply melt itself. So it would be impractical to deploy and maintain.
>>64953011How many of these machines do you need to cover enough of the front to provide effective interception, and how do you protect them from being hit or stopped running.
>ITT>Legitimate interesting discussion>Wanking to new forms of war crime
>>64953051>pervert laserwtf
>>64953073>how manyThousands>how do you protect themThey cost less than fpv drone with fiber optic >stop running Replace batteries, they can run for weeks
>>64953051actually successfully developed in the west and Israel, but only works in certain conditions
Disco drones
>>64953026Counterpoint: Russia's Lubyanka is as busy as ever, and whole Ukraine didn't outright close its own version of Lubyanka in 1989....they stopped admitting new prisoners and slowly let the facility go defunct over the years as people got out.
>>64952081So wait it is permenant?Fried the circuits?
>>64952695Furthermore, drone operators are already more hated than snipers. If you add terror weapons like blinding people into the mix you're making that even worse. If the conflict isn't completely asymmetric, the drone operator will have legitimate concerns that if he's captured he will be savagely tortured for in essence torturing his opponent from behind a screen.>>64952968Wouldn't be effective against a laser aimed at the shield, the auto-darkening requires the light hitting the sensor to work and a beam at the shield will not do that. I'm not saying it's completely impossible to make it work, I'm just speaking from welding experience that if the arc isn't visible to the sensor it won't darken, and a beam isn't like the broadcast of an arc. That being said, the darkening only blocks visible light, the glass filter is still effective against UV and IR when not darkened.
>>64952081yea I was wondering why they don't just use lasers to cut the fiber easily you can have hand held lasers that cut through steel build by amateurs in their garage with 0.01$ chink parts.you can also use lazers to safely communicate with your drones not sure if anyone's doing this other than the us with their large drones.
>>64952423i dont think either of that is gonna happen heavier fibers would defeat the whole reason fiber optic drones became viable (incredibly light and thin bare fiber allowing for long range) and fiber optic laser modules that can resist laser jamming is something totally nonexistant right now (unlike every other technology used in drones currently which is just repurposed widely available cheap civilian stuff) and would be crazy expensive if developed over several years.having someone shoot a laser at your fiber is just something so rare and unheard of at this point i expect the first counter to just be minding the past of the drone to the target. for example a sitter/ambush drone on a road would not fly along the road at all (and leave fiber along the road) but come from the side of the road so the laser sweep would be less likely to hit it. + add coated fiber to just the first 50 meters of fiber so they have to laser the part further away from the drone to hurt it.>>64952423the costs are about the same, before this war only coated fibers were commercially available and during it they started improvising bare ones by stripping them and now you can find bare ones on aliexpress which is just chinese manufacturers skipping the coating part of the manufacturing but selling you the fiber spool for the same price.>>64952468i kinda thought of that when they had the whole maduro raid thing they reported they had drones attacking people autonemously. if you have one that shoots you risk friendly fire/shooting civilians wheres just a laser dazzling autonemous attack drone is much less low risk while giving you a massive advantage if it works well
>>64952620ukraine against russia the footage in OP is a russian ambush quad waiting on a road.the reason the ukanian quad looks like a wierd ass UFO is the russian quad is using high light sensitivity long exposure to increase it's night vision (also why its running at 10 fps which is incredably slow to fly quads at) so the laser light totally looks wierd on the camera
>>64952930Incendiary weapons are legal, they just have some restrictions. There's actually less restrictions on non air delivered weapons like flamethrowers
>>64952786i dont know if they can 'recover' from having the fiber laser>>64953145those are dud rockets not lasersthat being said israeli laser tech is actually kinda insane its actually hundreds/thousands of small fiber laser modules inside each with a frequency shifter that can adjust the frequency of the laser + a high precision laser telescope. it has a 2 step mode of operation they shoot all the laser modules at different frequencies at the target, the telescope records which frequency hits the aim point on the target and then sets all the individual modules to that frequency. meaning the israeli laser weapon is essentially functioning as both a sensor/LIDAR and a weapon (in additional to the radar it uses for tracking) it keeps shooting until all the laser points scatter again and then does the frequency scan again to choose the next frequency doing this multiple times a second its basically always converging and diverging but this can make it drill holes in steel tens of km away this is the first time ive heard of anyone overcoming the main issue with lasers in atmosphere (unpredictable scattering from air turbulence). US tried to do it with brute lasing power on that laser 747 and failed a few decades ago
>>64952320It's not That hard, all you need is some safety scissors and Balls of Steel.
>>64952786>so this method requires constant lasing on a pretty fine target? it sounds like if you ever come off target it should regain controEventually, yes, but current fiber-optic modules burn out if you hit them hard enough.
>>64952081
So wait does it actually cut the wire?Or does it fry the receivers?Or does it just temporarily jam/blind the drone?
>>64952081I don't understand what's happening on the videois the bright ufo a drone spotter that shines down bright light onto the presumably low visibility drone below it? like in the screenshot?
>>64953362it jams the transceivers by shining laser light into the wire
>>64953362Burns out the receivers via massively overloading it with light energy "injected" into the fibre optic cable.
>>64952292Does it only jam the signal or does it burn out fiber optic module? im no expert but i would imagine that those modules aren't rated for laser light
>>64953368the bright 'ufo' is a quadcopter with a laser, probably a line laser like pic related. the drone we're seeing footage from is sitting on the road waiting to ambush ukranian cars.the laser drone shoots laser light into the fiber optic wire that the ambush drone is using. it probably doesnt know there's an ambush drone there just that russians frequently put ambush drones there so the ukranians sweep the side of the road with a laser to take them out
>>64953420ohh that makes a lot more senseI thought it's some weird drone-on-drone aerial action with a cuck looking from the sidelines, as is tradition
>>64953416Most laser receive side of the module tend to run about 5-7dB attenuation, they're going to shit the bed when it gets dumped with a massive signal down them which potentially could be ten times that and even if its smart enough to turn itself off to avoid damage, well its shut down now and someone can go turn it back on I guess!(fuck that!)Sorta got to remember fibre is a very effective medium when it comes to secure data, both in terms of speed and density. They have a very high amount of bandwidth but that also means the transmission and receive are also subject to cramming a massive amount of super tiny sensors in an even tinier space all tuned to very specific, controlled conditions. When they're using unshielded fibre like they do, that's sort of the risk you take with outside influences. But if it was shielded then they'd only have a short run and a lot more weight.
>>64952081>Drone mounted jamming laserJust start putting drone blinding lasers as a part of tank defences suite, among ERA, RCWS, APS, ECM and all that bells and whistles
>>64953138Okay, who's deploying these thousands of machines and changing these batteries in the zone of contact
>>64953300That's some actual space laser shit.
>>64953475>in the zone of contactnone deploys such defenses in "zone of contact", they are deployed 5km deep to protect 5-10km behind front
>>64952468Based stimmyposter
>>64953449Probably in the works but it's better to test it out on a drone first. If it doesn't work then all you've lost is a drone. I'm guessing we'll have lasers jury rigged to tanks in a couple months and prototypes as part of a CROWS setup in under a year.
>>64953650it'll be useless the moment it's done. they'll just send drone types not vulnerable to it to kill it. and the drones vulnerable to it on other targets. tanks are a joke. complete waste of material.
>>64954008> they'll just send drone types not vulnerable to it to kill itYou mean radio controlled drones vulnerable to jamming?
>>64952186
>>64953449I think for a tank, it would make more sense for it to have an escort drone flying high above it and sweeping the laser around to hit fiber before the tank actually comes into the view of ground lurking ambush drones.
>>64953449fibre optic drones have existed for, what, a couple years now? in one conflict. this countermeasure has existed for about three minute and no one's had time to respond. technical or doctrinal response could render everything here irrelevant in a month and the conditions present may never express themselves again. no one is designing subsystems around this
>>64952900Lasers, by definition, have very narrow wavelengths. You don't need to block the entire red spectrum, you only need to block the specific red laser wavelength at 635/638, for example. The world would look distorted and colored wrong, but your brain would quickly adapt the same way it does when you're wearing ski goggles.
>>64954583
>>64952468>using lasers as blinding weaponsunironic war crime
>>64954901Not only that>be drone operator in a peer engagement>your brass decides to field blinding weapons as a terror tactic>get captured because war is unpredictable>enemy soldiers blind and torture you This is what would happen. FPV drone operators are already executed in the ukraine war, it probably wouldn't be wise to make yourself any more hated if you're doing it.
>>64954583>Lasers, by definition, have very narrow wavelengths.lol no, they are principally *coherent*, which means
>>64955052Anon, modern lasers largely aren't produced by nanodots, but instead have their wavelength dictated by the bandgap of the specific material being excited, which has a very narrow emission spectrum centered around a single wavelength and then a small spread around it caused by thermal differences.
>>64952275That's incredibly smart, I had just always assumed the fibres were shielded.How do they deal with interference that I assume would result from lack of shielding?
>>64955083the modules they use at the end are fairly high power,low bitrate to overcome the the losses also avoid rain and flying them into water the index of diffraction of water leads to much higher losses
>>64952081And Russians discovered it just because they were streaming with an "ambush" drone. Imagine trying to explain this to your commander without a video lmao
>>64953552So they're of limited use
>>64952468i wrote a big post but all of this is stupid for so many reasons i leave this as an exercise for another anonout of all the things, the funniest one for meow is the fact that it's countered by simple shitty cheap and easy to make glasses, at which point the drones are only useful at disrupting non military personnel (aka war crimes), which is one of the reasons why no one wants to use them - probs one of the few not broken 'gentleman's agreement' in this special needs operation
>>64952081>>64952786>>64952822its because russia made their drones to self destruct if a signal loss happens
>>64955132It's entirely possible the Russians Wouldn't figure out what killed their drone if they didn't stream it.
>>64952900>>64952968>>64954583Guys, there's an angle we're missing. You issue lenses that block out non-visible light so that if there's any dust or smoke in the air you can follow the beam back to the user. Then you blow him to hell with 40mm or whatever else you've got on hand.
>>64955572WELCOME TO LAST YEAR
>>64953420so pointing a laser at optic fiber destroy it ?
>>64957337no, you could destroy a fiber with laser but it would need to be like 1000 times more powerfulthe fiber optic communication modules on either end of the fiber are extremely sensitive. theyre designed to work with a very predictable low power pulses of laser light if you put high power foreign laser light into the fiber they both get overloaded and generate noise/fake signals.
>>64952081>serif font hudshit looks like from a silent hill game
>>64952179no OP but I predicted some sort of super bright laser or flashing light that would interfere with the unshielded optic cablebut really tho, pic related
>>64953248>Wouldn't be effective against a laser aimed at the shield, the auto-darkening requires the light hitting the sensor to work and a beam at the shield will not do that. I'm not saying it's completely impossible to make it work, I'm just speaking from welding experience that if the arc isn't visible to the sensor it won't darken, and a beam isn't like the broadcast of an arc. That being said, the darkening only blocks visible light, the glass filter is still effective against UV and IR when not darkened.Put a slightly diffusing screen which spreads the laser light, then attach the sensor to that and measure the wavelength.
>>64955237just like every single countermeasure
>>64952275>the video signal from the fiber optic drone is cut>>64952705>even if its not cooked its likely gone into a shutdown or somethingi still don't understand what causes the drone to be damagedif the laser acts like a rf jammer and puts out noise on the cable, it just overload/blocks input/output which in the case of a mid-air drone causes it to stall/fall but this one's already on the ground and not doing anything, so what exactly fries it if it just stops receiving/sending data through the fiber?
>>64958825The sensitive electronics in the receiver gets smacked with many orders of magnitude higher power then it's rated for and burns out.
>>64958825>i still don't understand what causes the drone to be damagedif the drone was human it just suffered spinal damage
>>64952942kekgotta appreciate the craftsmanship
>>64957443>serif font hudholy kino
>>64952942holy based. I give this 9.9/10. The last .1 is reserved for if they drone some Russian bitch blowjob/assrape (fuck I forgot the term for it) activity.
>>64958825>already on the ground and not doing anythingIt's sending the video feed back and receiving control info at all times. The control info happens to be an active DO NO MOVEMENT, CAMERA FEED SEND at this time
>>64958825The receiver module that connects the fiber optic line to the drone gets burned out. It's a bit like if you plugged a 120 volt tool into a 240 volt outlet. A pop, some smoke, and your device is now bricked.
>>64958825>i still don't understand what causes the drone to be damagedif you have any kind of signal receiver, it has an upper limit of what it's prepared to accept, amplitude-wiseIf you have ever had the misfortune of being too retarded to understand audio equipment, and run the hottest possible speaker output of a tube amp into audio mixing equipment, there's a good likelihood that you'll have blown out the preamp and bricked the mixer. This functions the exact same wayin its absolute simplest incarnation, the reciever on the drone is just a photodiode. If the optical receiver is expecting 1/10 of a milliwatt, and you hit the fiber cable with a full 1W laser, in the best case scenario you're nuking the receiver with like 100mW which is 1,000x hotter of a signal than it's built for. due to the photoelectric effect, that means 1,000x more electrons being released into the system which means frying sensitive electronicsthe absolute complete retard explanation is if I hit you with a camera flash in your dark bedroom, you're not gonna be able to see for like 10 minutes, if I hit you in the eye with a 1W laser in a dark bedroom, you're never seeing out of that eye again
>>64952468>Hell, I don't see why terrorists couldn't do this regularly in random cities.Blinding laser active beamer is my biggest fear. >be shopping>suddenly just tons of random screaming>no gun shots>no explosions>just suddenly mass panic>cannot even hear where the attack is coming from>people running around>bumping into everything>squirming on the ground as their primary sense was destroyed>all from a dude with a hole in his pocket who just walks away
>>64952301>>64952320>>64952081I mean the old wire-guided TOW and its contemporaries could be jammed by blasting them with a fuckton of EM radiation so this wasn't really unexpected.
>>64966006i dont think thats a problem unless you're shooting them though high voltage power lines/transformers they are very nearly unjammable
>>64958874>>64965465>>64965753while i do get the "power surge frying delicate electronics" comparison, i would have never expected it to work in such circumstances, even in a barebone unshielded cable, already slightly crimpled and with just a photodiode at the end configurationi mean it's just light, don't you easily constrain target frequencies with a bandpass filter or at least cut off the high end with a lowpass filter?
>>64952081Is the next evolution ninjitsu smoke bombs as a laser countermeasure?
>>64952292>laser drone ahead and the laser drone sweeps the road with a high power laser neutralizing any drones on the roadWon't the signal be restored the moment the laser interference ceases?
>>64952493>If you can shoot a blinding laser at someone, you can just shoot them insteadA (permanently) blinding laser has lower power requirements than a burning laser. Dazzling lasers already exist in warfare and riot control and don't have hague convention legal problems.
>>64966266i dont think so, digital radio modules are designed with 'noisy' environments in mind and have lots of safeguards and mechanisms to re-acquire the signal after a noise spike. fiber optic modules are designed for clean data center environments to maximize speed and minimize latency with 0 safeguards my guess is this either causes permanent damage to some components (photodiode,amplifier...) or jams them in a way that requires them to be fully turned off and on again to work. and you cant power cycle a remote fiber optic drone
>>64966266Not if the receiver module burned out.
