which country would be better to lead the combined european armed forces, germany or france?
>>64966126Italy
>>64966126The french at least aren't afraid of their own shadow.
>>64966131italy does have an impressive military, FOR THEIR BUDGET. that's it. they don't have neither the manpower, nor the industry, nor the technology, nor the economy, nor the soft power to make any demands of that kind. after brexit, everyone knows the power struggle in europe is between those two countries
>>64966126Poland. France close second.
>>64966126France. Germany is controlled by Austrians, they can't be trusted.
>>64966126Sweden.
>>64966172Poland is likely to invade germany for reparations even while russians are massing at the border.
In heaven Your cook is Italian. Your mechanic is German. Your policeman is English. Your lover is French. It is all organized by the Swiss.In hell: Your cook is English. Your mechanic is French. Your policeman is German. Your lover is Swiss. It is all organized by the Italians.
>>64966126>combined european armed forces, germany or france?Unironically would surrender just to Shahed spam.
>>64966181German police are quite ok these days.Now if it were nazi or GDR police...
>>64966126England is the only European nation I can think of off the top of my head that has won a war by itself within living memory. By that virtue they're the most qualified
>>64966188That is an ancient meme so that's surely what it is referring to.
France in war time and Germany in peace time.
>>64966126>which country would be better to lead the combined circus troupe of irrelevant losers?Why would it make any difference and who cares?
>>64966193>The US provided Britain with 200 Sidewinder missiles for use by the Harrier jets,[197][198] eight Stinger surface-to-air missile systems, Harpoon anti-ship missiles and mortar bombs.[199] On Ascension Island, the underground fuel tanks were empty when the British Task Force arrived in mid-April 1982 and the leading assault ship, HMS Fearless, did not have enough fuel to dock when it arrived off the island. The United States diverted a supertanker to replenish both the fuel tanks of ships at anchor there and the storage tanks on the island with approximately 2,000,000 US gallons (7,600,000 L; 1,700,000 imp gal) of fuel.[200] The Pentagon further committed to providing additional support in the event that the war dragged on into the Southern Hemisphere's winter. In that scenario, the US committed tanker aircraft to support Royal Air Force missions in Europe, releasing RAF aircraft to support operations over the Falklands.[201]>The United States allowed the United Kingdom to use American communication satellites for secure communications between submarines in the Southern Ocean and Naval HQ in Britain. The US also passed on satellite imagery (which it publicly denied[202]) and weather forecast data to the British Fleet.[203]>US President Ronald Reagan approved the Royal Navy's request to borrow a Sea Harrier-capable Iwo Jima-class amphibious assault ship (the US Navy had earmarked USS Guam (LPH-9) for this[204]) in the event a British aircraft carrier was lost. The US Navy developed a plan to help the British man the ship with American military contractors, who would likely be retired sailors with knowledge of the ship's systems.[205]
>>64966210Goddamnit they don't even have one. Shit has any European country won a war or even a minor conflict entirely on their own within the last 50 years?
>>64966193France did really well with Op Serval in Mali a few years back, and that was pretty well a solo adventure for them.
>>64966227And then Mali kicked them out in favour of ziggers who fucked up everything they had managed to accomplish. That's what you get for helping brown people.
>>64966226>on their ownneither america has won anything on its own. nato exists for a reason.
>>64966126Belgium
>>64966234Eh, dub is a dub. France gets to run the EU military by virtue of being the only nation to win anything by themselves within living memory>>64966239Don't pretend the rest of the coalition's contributions to desert storm was tantamount to signing their name on the group project and letting us borrow their laptop and printer to do all the work
>>64966250are you doubting the war effort of america's allies, and the dead they incurred? must i remind you that almost every single conflict nato's been involved in was in order to uphold US' interests?
>>64966171It's not about capabilities or contributions, Italian armed forces are simply the most competent leadership available
Unironically Israel since they're the only nation capable of winning wars nowadays and we invite them to all Euro stuff anyway
>>64966126As much as it pains me, France. They are the only European nation that is a true case of fuck around and find out.
>>64966268they don't have the pedigree of other countries. france for example has much more experience in insurgency warfare and peacekeeping in africa and around the world as well. germany's warfare tactics revolve around countering russia, not donkey-and-lada modern russia, but 70s soviet union russia. let's be honest, italy's only been busy with migrants and low intensity skirmishes. the biggest loss of personnel was due to a suicide bombing more than 20 years ago. in iraq they were glorified policemen, and in the red sea now they've yet to kill even a single drone.
>>64966273israel would've been curbstomped years ago were not for their faithful golem.
>>64966258I'm not doubting their contributions, merely stating that we've done the majority of the legwork. Hell even in Yugoslavia we dropped the majority of ordnance and ran the most sorties while Greece, a NATO ally, played conscientious objector and said we couldn't stage our assets in their territory. To say that Desert Storm would've completely failed if France or Germany didn't show up is lunacy
>>64966126France, because like them or hate them, they hate everyone and lead begrudgingly from the front. Also, unlike the Germans, they haven't ruined Europe multiple times in the last 100 years.
>>64966311we duh, nobody can match america's military, but just to be correct, those countries allied to you didn't have much stakes to be involved in larger numbers, either. the only country i can think of that went to war on its own was the UK during the falklands war, and they absolutely flattened the argies (granted they lost like 10 ships) despite the post wilson dearmament that took place even before thatcher took over.
>>64966316germans did nothing wrong as a people. if anything, they're loyal customers and quite polite for tourist based economies. it's merkel. that bitch.
>>64966171Italy is the second industrial power of the EU, it has an industrial output greater than the UK and France. It exports more than South Korea and Japan. It is one of the wealthiest countries in the world as well.
>>64966126my preference would be sweden or poland
>>64966258>the US's interestsWhose side did you think you were signing up to be on when joining NATO? The US's interests are the West's interest as a whole, sorry France isn't gaining the most benefit for contributing practically nothing. Like goddamn I know the EU hates the status quo getting challeneged because they've been doing their best to play both sides but it seems the onlything they hate more than that is any action being taken to ensure it remains or strengthens in the near future.
>>64966250Bongs deployed shitloads in 91 and 03, the numbers are fairly substantialIt's not that they were needed necessarily, but it was a huge deployment, especially relative to their size and budget
>>64966210Not a bong but none of that - intel, ammo and fuel and reshuffling some NATO resources out of courtesy is decisive to winning the actual war. Sure it helped, as allies should. And I'm sure the Burgers billed 'em for the consumables.
>>64966126Either Poland or the British United Kingdom New Caliphate.
>>64966126Serbia
>>64966295>waah you're not allowed to have allies dats not fair 1v1 me b1tch!!1
I don't trust Germany, the past 80 years were spend beating the spirit to assert themselves out of them, leaving behind ex- compromised Stasi businessmen who would sell out to some Eastern power.France I also don't trust, they are too chummy with russians on some "le world is le depressing" level.No one would let Poland be the main military power broker, even with how buddy buddy they try to be with US.>Britain>SpainThat really does leave >>64966131 as the most likely option.
>>64966181What is wrong with Swiss lovers?
The supreme commander should be some faceless nobody who is just really good at logistics and numbers. You can save the theatrics for the politicians and have operational commanders be dependant on the situation and whoever is available at the time - lean into that 'united in diversity' ethos so the enemy never quite knows what to expect.>>64966177Would be low-key based if we got Nordbat-2 style military posture and cool names like 'Operation Bully Bashing'. >>64966169>Oui-Oui we will bomb this West African country because they used to be part of our empire honhonhonhon>"Well that's good for France but how does this benefit Europe?">Europe?
>>64966126>>64966169>>64966172it's not like it matters. they are all feckless homosexual cowards. the EU armies should be put under the control of an American general
>>64966200this>>64966226of course not
>>64966961>t. zigger milblogger galvanizing vatnik squatters to die for the emperor of apekind while he sweats cold hoping he won't be shipped to donetsk with them
>>64966258>must i remind you that almost every single conflict nato's been involved in was in order to uphold US' interests?>Bosnia>Kosovo>Libya>Active Endeavour>Somalia Anti-Piracy>Current increased deployments to Eastern EuropeLITTERALLY every thing that NATO has initiated has been for the world as a whole or for Europe in particular. This idea that Europe is being taken advantage of while they are in fact continiously seeking aid from the US is absolutely ludicrious. I'll remind you that some of these were taking place at the same time as we were involved in major wars with people that just got done flying jumbo jets into skyscrapers in the largest city in our nation. Yet we still somehow were deploying assets to help you feel secure.
>>64966979>the emperor of apekind
>>64966980Let's not also forget Prosperity Guardian. Red Sea trade only accounts for less than 5% of our imports and exports but is critical for European markets
>>64966126Finland is the only country that has retained proper military and cultivated total national defense for decades. They are the perfect example how Europe should fix their military.
>>64966994Yes but nobody can understand them so they can't lead a pan-european military
>>64966991prosperity guardian is not an all american op, just like all the ones you just mentioned. also kosovo and bosnia were initiated by the UN, not nato.
>>64966984>>64966979stop calling me a Russian, thirdie. I hate all nonAmericans equally
>>64967013>stop noticing blyat!
>>64967007He's not me. If you've got an issue with my list or position, you can take it up with me.
>>64967020every former ussr/warsaw pact country is full of faggots, thirdie
The British. They are the best, hands down, when it comes to tard-wrangling European and international partners to form coalitions and alliances, act decisively when needed, and their leadership is tried, tested, and true in battle.Ukraine still exists because Boris Johnson flew over my house and ten thousand HATO Anglo-Saxon generals drowned in the cumpits of Azovstal.
>>64967029whoa tough guy, saw-ree. please don't hit me
>>64967055Just clarifying, don't be a dramaqueen.
>>64967007True, however in all of them we were a disproportionately large contributor compared to how much all of those situations affected us. I don't want to sound ungrateful for our allies, after all even if at times they're just acting as glorified landing strips and resupply points that's a damn important role since we need to land our planes somewhere. I just get rubbed the wrong way when Europeans act like they're the linchpin of NATO while also consistently skimping on their defense. I love them a lot but God damn does it get annoying how they act like sending Serbia back to the stone age (or roughly last Tuesday for them) was a team effort everyone put their backs into and not us doing almost all the heavy lifting while they tard wrangled the balkanoids (excluding Greece who wanted to be a shit and sit it out)
>>64967013>mystery meat muttmerican calling anyone else a thirdie
>>64966181>>64966126DEI Army
