Why the fuck would the US Navy get rid of it's minesweepers?>https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2026/03/12/the-us-navy-decommissioned-middle-east-minesweepers-last-year-heres-what-they-did/>The U.S. Navy decommissioned half of its Avenger-class mine countermeasure ships last year and began replacing them with littoral combat ships that possess anti-mine capabilities.>Independence-class littoral combat ships equipped with the mine countermeasures mission package began arriving in the U.S. Fifth Fleet last year to replace the decommissioned minesweepers in Bahrain.>Unlike the minesweepers, which have a long history of being battle-tested, the LCS with the MCM package has never been deployed in combat.>The LCS with the MCM package possesses similar counter-mine capabilities as minesweepers, but the fundamental difference is that the LCS operates outside the mine threat zone and deploys counter-mine devices, while the minesweepers can operate near or directly inside the mine-threat zone.>Minesweepers boast a non-magnetic signature and low acoustic footprint designed to avoid triggering sea mines, allowing them to operate closer to dangerous areas.
>Replacing them... with ships that possess anti-mine capabilitiesThey didnt, did you read your own post?
>>65004603>The LCS with the MCM package possesses similar counter-mine capabilities as minesweepers, but the fundamental difference is that the LCS operates outside the mine threat zone and deploys counter-mine devices, while the minesweepers can operate near or directly inside the mine-threat zone.did you read?
>>65004606>Similar capabilities
>>65004617You keep getting stuck. the LCS is not actually useful like the Avenger class would be in the strait of hormuz and there is not much confidence in the LCS to be effective as a "minesweeper" which it is not with this MCM package
>iran just posted thisour response bros?
>>65004617NTA but similar doesn't mean identical Plus you are talking about having to use a half a billion dollar ship that is outfitted with this module instead of some other kne to do a job a bunch of cheaper dedicated smaller ships could be doing
>>65004624Thats not in your article bub
>>65004629No such thing as a cheap Naval ship. OP is just malding that minesweepers arent getting hit by missiles
>>65004657That is a dumb thing to say, things at this scale are relative, even more so when now your only option to do the job is a half a billion dollar general purpose ship that has to be further refitted with a package to do the job a previous dedicated smaller vessel was tasked with.
>>65004651Here's another that's more explicit>https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-rages-iran-us-navys-minesweepers-headed-to-far-east-ps-031826>The US Navy appears to believe that its Littoral Combat Ships are not up to the task of taking on Iranian naval mines.>two of the LCSes that would be serving in this role were recently spotted in Malaysia, thousands of miles from their homeport in Bahrain>The Independence-class LCS also has greater armament than the Avenger class and should, in theory at least, be able to hold its own in a combat zone. However, the LCSes have one considerable drawback relative to the Avenger class: their hulls are made of metal, exposing them to sophisticated metal detection technology embedded in some mines. The Avenger-class minesweepers were designed with wooden and fiberglass hulls to evade this problem.
>>65004667Your boat will be expensive no matter what due to needing to protect your human capitol from missiles and drones.
>>65004681That is only really a problem if you do something stupid like underestimate your opponent without having any ships in the area to do something about itPlus imagine if we could use that half a billion dollar ship in an actually useful package to defend those cheaper minesweepers you would get the best of both worlds instead of this clusterfuck of a scenario we are in
>>65004675>National interest>(((appears)))>Only actual problem listed is not being made of fiberglassBruh
>>65004696You mean this scenario where we have a better boat to do the job? We overestimated Iran, tardo. Nobody expected their missiles to have something like a 90% fail rate.
>>65004709Is the boat anywhere near the area to do the job? Did they do anything to get the boat anywhere near the area before the strike?Makes it fucking useless eh
>>65004701We're talking about the LCS which has been a shitty program. I can't find anything that says it's on par with the old minesweepers. And they have moved at least some those MCM outfitted ships to Malaysia as the article mentions... which doesn't make sense if it was trusted for this job. Although it seems
>>65004724Although it seems they're not willing to go anywhere near the strait with any ships*
>>65004596Because devoting an entire manned vessel to go into the minefield is retard when drones can do exactly that. Sending what amounts to an 80 man EOD team is retarded.
>>65004775which drone can minesweep?
>>65004627Brown hands literally posted that.
>>65004778Please diehttps://www.navy.mil/Resources/Fact-Files/Display-FactFiles/Article/2167535/littoral-combat-ships-mine-countermeasures-mission-package/
>>65004783>Can't operate near the mine threat zoneInferior
>>65004627>oh, all that infrastructure you bombed? i didnt need it anyway because im committing national suicide.
have the iranians even laid any mines to any real degree? most of their navy got obliterated quickly.
>>65004795Mixed evidence, but the threat is enough that insurers won't cover the transit so the ships don't sail without Iran's permission.
>>65004795I thought they laid a couple dozen with speedboats
>>65004596Because it has Littoral Combat Ships with mine warfare module.
>>65004817My point was that those ships are inferior for the task.
>>65004788Why do you figure the old ones would be able to? They’re the next best thing to unarmed, modern Hormuz is far to high threat of an environment for the Avengers to accomplish anything
>>65004858>Why do you figure the old ones would be able to?because they could, they have wooden hulls and don't set off acoustic triggers. They would have to have support of course. LCS have better armament and are more general purpose, but are mediocre at both tasks
>>65004868They would constantly be getting drones launched at them, which they have no organic ability to defend themselves against. Minesweeping has moved to a standoff role done by drone because any country capable of mining a body of water is now also capable of a dedicated minesweeper under unacceptable threat
>>65004791You say it as a joke, but that appears to be their actual plan at this point.
>>65004627kino desu
>>65004882I'm not saying that drones are a bad idea at all, but it seems that this Mine clearing package is not really able to do effective minesweeping, drones or not
>>65004821But they aren’t. That is just a conclusion you have arrived at based upon no actual knowledge of the matter involved.And they relocated to under go routine maintenance in Singapore where the LCSs always go. Maybe if Iran was an actual threat they works feel like needed more than the Canberra. But as it is estimates are that Iran has been able to deploy a grand total of about a dozen mines and as such a single MCM equipped ship is deemed sufficient. You’re also completely disregarding any shorebased assets in a region where the distances across is measured in the low two figuresPlease go die in multiple sequential fires
>>65004882Retard
>>65004627So the strait isn’t closed? I thought that was the turdie cope. Now we wait for (((Iran))) to sink a Chinese oil tanker and the game will be complete.
>>65004895I’m sure it will need to be iterated on, like every other drone technology has needed to be. But they’re throwing enough money after USVs that I’m confident things can be brought up to spec quickly. Unfortunately cheap missiles and drones have proliferated enough that sending in 80 guys on a boat with no organic air defense is just a setup for disaster, so we have to work the kinks out on the new stuff since the old way probably just gets people killed now
>>65004896>But they aren’t.I'm not really finding any conclusion that they're superior or even peer for the task. I'm open for correction but not getting any information otherwise. >But as it is estimates are that Iran has been able to deploy a grand total of about a dozen mines and as such a single MCM equipped ship is deemed sufficientI thought it was a few dozen, which is still low>Maybe if Iran was an actual threat they works feel like needed more than the CanberraThe question is will they actually use any of those ships to clear the strait
>>65004627pool's closed :)
>>65004596Well ....our current Sec. of the Navy is a Trump contributor, art collector, and Air-Epstein flyer .... so he is overqualified for the job apparently
>>65004627>iran propaganda is now mimicking south park style trump face pic reactionswhat a timeline
>>65004906 its open as long as you ignore the ships getting shot at
>>65004627>literal 1:1 match to /pol/tard propaganda/copeI'm sure that's just some kind of weird coincidence.
>>65004596>Why the fuckFor the lolz.
>>65004701I'm new to this threat, but if the LCS is supposed be doing what it's built for...why is it a no show? The LCS was literally designed to operate in the strait and it got sent away to malaysia.
>>65004715Your own article tells you why you're wrong. This is the same shit you did with Ukraine where it was "cowardly" for the HIMARS to sit where Russia couldn't stop it deleting their conscripts.
>>65004627
>>65004724Your own article, again, says the exact opposite. >>65004788Yes in fact it can, the only downside is having metal armor that a certain type of mine could theoretically detect, which is completely invalidated by the fact that it can sit outside the mine zone and send in drones to do the job more cheaply, as the other Anon already linked to you.
>>65004802Permission from who? Iran doesn't have a government that can stop a rogue squad from firing random rockets at a tanker, and that's why the insurance companies are being antsy.
>>65004895Because that would destroy your dream of the multipoolar world rising up
>>65004885Well in their defense shit was fucked before we started bombing. Recall how at one point 1 dollar was worth about 2.5 million Iranian funbux and how they were suffering severe water shortages. If anything, the bombings may have given the government and the IRGC an out. Either to completely skip country, bag in hand, or to pin all the misfortunes on us and Israel to reestablish trust between them and the general populace
>>65004596>Avenger class>Battle testedLmaoAnyway, minesweeping is done by helicopters and there's no evidence that Iran has mined the Strait. The only ships that have been damaged have been by USVs.>while the minesweepers can operate near or directly inside the mine-threat zone.The Avenger class is REQUIRED to operate within the mine threat zone due to the limited range of its UUVs and lack of hangar facilities. This is why they're barely used even when the Navy conducts minesweeping operations. The Avenger is not an asset, it's a liability.
>>65005025It was not a "Hitler dood wat nou" moment.
>>65005125To thirdies this just means America has no minesweepers. They will literally delete the drones and helicopters from their brains.
>>65005125again i thought ive been hearing that iran mined the strait w/ dozens of mines but this is not true?
>>65005125Avenger does not have UUV. Remote piloted is an entirely different platform
>>65005255/pol/ will see something touted as a possibility and declare it a proven certainty that happens all the time and the US can't stop, pretty much. So if Iran laying mines is ever mentioned as a concern, for example, then to them Iran has filled every square yard of water with mines and the US cannot stop them or detect them because they're magical Islamic mines built by djinns.
>>65005255Maybe you can provide something that actually says what you “heard.” Because otherwise if we’re going to operate like that I heard you like to watch while I fuck your mom.
>>65005263>>65005262>https://archive.is/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/03/24/iran-lays-mines-strait-of-hormuz/>Now, US officials have reported that there are at least a dozen Maham 3 and Maham 7 Limpet Mines in the water, which will need careful extraction before safe travel can resume.only a dozen, but still there, at least what "US Intelligence" is putting out there publically
>>65005255Iran says they have, which is good enough to stop 90% of shipping whether they actually have or not. It's not impossible that they've deployed a handful, but a small number of ships have been transitting the strait and the only damage has been from drones, not mines.>>65005259And a Pedator is not a UAV because it's piloted remotely?
>>65005272So a dozen like I said earlier and not several dozen like you said? Glad we cleared that up
>>65005295You said there's no evidence that they mined the strait at all you retard
>>65005275Never brought up Predators or UAVs, don’t know who you are replying to.
>>65005298Nope>>65004896
>>65005303i thought you were>>65005125A dozen sounds like a drop in the bucket , maybe it doesn't matter that much but i have seen not much positive about LCS as a whole
>>65004596If I had to make a guess it's because the Minesweepers aren't effective anymore. Minesweepers depend on the sensor vs stealth arms race being in their favor. If you don't then the mines hits the minesweeper and you lose a good crew. This means you Constantly need to update your minesweepers in ways that are Not cheap. From what I can gather, the MCM is basically a Minesweeper Drone so if you fuck up and hit a mine you only lose a drone and not the team controlling it.
>>65004596Why would Iran not have the capability to lay naval mines to properly acheive its objective? If the strait is mined why are ships turning off AIS and going right on through?
>>65004596>avenger class >check armaments >wiki says mine sweeper>and 4x 50 cal MGsDoesn't seem like it'll do well in a setting where drones can be thrown out randomly
>>65005301A remote piloted submersible is a UUV the same way that a remote piloted aircraft is a UAV. The only difference is the medium through which they travel.
>>65005324>but i have seen not much positive about LCS as a wholeBecause journos love to take shots at it because it's an easy target, having been a very capable and somewhat expensive naval program conceived during the peace dividend and built during a pair of long-running wars in landlocked countries. In reality, Independence has been a great ship and the Navy loves it, and Freedom has had a lot of problems but it's finally in a good spot. The only real mistake in the program was the decision to buy both classes, which doubled the cost is troubleshooting their early problems (more than doubled actually, since Freedom had a lot more issues) and greatly delayed the development of the mission packages.
>>65004596If Trump was based retard and not some absolute retard with no qualities, why not bypass the Hormuz strait by nuking a new canal into exist just south of it. There has been plans and cancelled projects for doing that in Nicaragua for exemple.
>>65005407Why don't we nuke a trench from the Caspian Sea to the Persian Gulf right through the middle of Tehran? Then Russia can finally stop seething about muh warm water ports.
>>65005409I was half-serious because it could actually be done but you just have some retarded genocidal fantasy. Also Russia has black sea ports that are warm and the ecological issues of the Caspian sea being open the Ocean would be disastrous.
>>65005410I was being 1/4 serious because it's a retarded idea but less retarded than nuking our allies.
>>65005414It's not "nuking", it's making a canal which bypass Hormuz in the shortest possible time. Probably would save money even by paying everyone in its path to fuck off and relocate than wait for Hormuz to be 100% open and risk free. It would also remove Iran's greatest strategical asset in this war AND promote peaceful nuclear energy.When a country use explosives to dig tunnels do you also say they are bombing themselves?
>>65005337because they only managed to put out a couple dozen mines before the USN and USAF blew up anything larger than a dingy
>>65004627>the brownies posted thisbros, we're losing the meme war
>>65004596This is why
>>65004701>>65004675F.Y.I. Maintaining "plastic" hulls is costly and time consuming.
>>65005436>no legsRIP the cybran Salem class DD
>>65004627Despite all the americopium israel is still getting pounded by hypersonics
>>65005553Abdul don't say such things, you're gonna just disappoint me when I go to check to find that only a handful of bottle rockets made kikes into good kikes
>>65005559We were really hoping Iran would actually wipe Israel from the map before dying, thus killing 2 annoying foreign policy birds with 1 bombing stone.
>>65005337Because you can't teleport the mines to their location and the US will blow up your speedboat.
>>65005420Have you considered that perhaps Saudi Arabia doesn't want a waterway wide enough and deep enough for bidirectional tanker traffic through the middle of its territory that will be useless in a month when the strait is reopened? Or were you planning to just cut your channel right through Dubai to just bypass the strait and not the entire gulf?
Turd worlders and shills are losing their shit again, what got blown up today?
>>65005324That’s what you get when you reply to two different people and then just assume what ever is convenient for Tory at the time
>>65005355Thank you for your total worthless and unfounded opinion
>>65005621Would you like you make an attempt at actually justifying your claim that a remotely controlled vehicle is not uncrewed? Because I can provide literally dozens of examples of remotely controlled UxVs. Hell, you can just go to the Wikipedia page on UUVs and see that the term includes both autonomous and remotely controlled submersibles.
>>65004966All of the arguing on this website is literally just brownoids arguing with other brownoids.
>>65005566I don't think they understand mutual destruction is not only to America's benefit but I'd actively assist them in achieving it
>>65004868>>65004596>wooden and fiberglass hulls>commissioned in 1987>plywood hulls and UV-sensitive polymer resin>40 years old>stationed in one of the sunniest places on earth>entire role has been replaced by drones, helos that expose vastly fewer crew to mines>horrendously fragile, in legitimate danger from ATGMsGee, I wonder why they might have been decommed. They were designed to clean up the Baltic, Suez/Panama, and Hormuz/Malacca after a Russian, chink, or proxy chimpout before the Wall fell. They were hastily-upgraded after 9/11, then left to literally rot while we spent another several decades designing their replacements.
>>65005887>entire role has been replaced by drones, helos that expose vastly fewer crew to minesThe part that's funny is that this happened before the Avenger class was even designed. The only reason the class even exists is because of the exact same "well what if these newfangled helicopters and drones don't work? I bet you'll wish you had drag cables and EOD divers then!" boomerism on display in this very thread. Newsflash: helicopters and drones work much better than cables and divers, and the Avenger class has been obsolete for fifty years despite only being forty years old.
>>65005658>Would you likeNo. No I would not like to argue whatever dipshit position you have reformulated what I actually said into via your malformed brain. I have absolutely no idea why you would even begin to think I would like that. Maybe you would "like" to go back and read the original post and then spend all of 20 seconds googling it instead of just having a kneejerk response to post what you feel it should be. Maybe then you'd find that the AN/SLQ-48 is what we would consider a ROUV and not a UUV. Yes, I know none of this is actually going to penetrate whatever foul miasma is swilling around inside your skull so let me just save you the effort and let you know I won't be replying further, this is for the benefit of anyone who was following this chain. Crow about whatever you want, frankly I just can't be bothered to deal with you tourists anymore.
>>65006050>what we would consider a ROUV and not a UUVROUVs are UUVs, dumbass. They're uncrewed, underwater, vehicles.
>>65004596>>65005125Of all the things in this article or this thread, this is the only thing you need to see to know its all just horseshit. The Avengers were fine (for their time), but anyone trying to pretend as if they saw a lot of action is either lying to you or has no idea and can't be bothered to look it up. I imagine Mr. Riley Ceder (recently of WaPo) is the latter and that this thread is full of the former.IIRC the first few of the class saw like a week's worth of light action almost 40 years ago against mines that were considered outdated even at that time.
>>65005553Surely a meme will revive your Ayatollahs and make Tehran not a pile of rubble.
>>65005572So you root for the global south and the party that wants to import it, fascinating logic.
>>65004596>why the fuck would the US Navy get rid of its minesweepers?The same stupid acquisition bullshit that's left the oiler fleet a joke, with less than a dozen operational at any given time, globally.
>>65005887Yes but the chink cope is that whenever America retires something as operational needs advance, that gap is never filled and surely spells the end of the West.
>>65006105Read the thread chinky
>>65006064>The Avengers were fine (for their time), but anyone trying to pretend as if they saw a lot of action is either lying to you or has no idea and can't be bothered to look it up.They were useless for their time which is why they did practically nothing for their entire service life.
>>65006113Read the room, dumbfuck. My post is about a chinkshit as a fucking baseball, moron.
>>65006122If you'd read the thread then you'd know that the USN has greater mineclearing ability than ever before.
>>65004596The LCS is the Little Crappy Ship, it's not like no sweepers ever existed before it or will ever exist after it. The notion we would need to bring sweepers out and put them in harm's way despite there not actually being an enemy naval threat, is a situation sort of unique to this scenario.Everything in the future is built looking at a pacific campaign, there was supposed to be a blockade - of the strait of Malacca, by us. The idea we would be in a protracted hot war with Iran with zero help or approval from any allies besides Israel was not on the table hence whether or not LCS was good or if Constellation wasn't tragically fumbled through the floor, wouldn't have mattered.What would have helped was if the EU was willing to help because they have 500+ ships between each other and do have some incentive to protect this strait since they use it more than us. The EU has over 150 minesweepers. But it was a true planning and diplomacy fail there because ranting at their leadership and direction and threatening Greenland is not a great way to butter up people you want help from later. It sounds just too fucking stupid to be reality, but somehow it is.
>>65006095Unironically the best thing for the Iranian government that could have happened to him was being assassinated by Israel. The IRGC gets to pump him up as a martyr and they, the paramilitary hardliners, are in full control of the country now and not limited by his religious restraint. Commanders make better officials in wartime than clerics.
Test
>>6500618180 IQ post.
>>65006156Okay, Trumpbot. Thanks for outing yourself.
>>65006099Maybe if you weren’t a dumb black ESL gorilla nigger you would figure out from my post that I have checked out and don’t care which side wins. However reportfags like you tend to push me toward the side that you don’t like, just out of spite.
>>65006257Your support in international affairs being based on what internet person annoyed you most recently is the most gorilla nigger thing, thoughbeit.
>>65004627The Iranian propaganda budget is quite low.
>>65006261>support in international affairs being based on what internet person annoyed you most recentlyYou have no idea how good it feels to live solely to spite the people I hate
>>65006251I'm not a trumpshill. But the USN does in fact have substantial mineclearing ability even without the Avengers, because they were never an important part of the Navy's mineclearing capability, which is primarily performed by CH-53s and the NMMP. Also there's only handful of mines, even if they strung them in a line across the narrowest point of the strait they'd be over a mile apart.
>>65006095The Ayatollah is in a better place now.
>>65006289I think in pieces all over a room is kind of a weird “better place”. Unless you’re talking about the cardboard Ayatollah, in which case being a pizza box is better than being in Iran.
>>65006289>>65006306>a better placeYes, he just went back into exile. Everything came full circle. Soon everyone will know everything.
>>65006116Was the F-22 worthless?
>>65006244Too generous
>>65006378Sort of, but it might have been useful if we'd ever fought anyone who could even attempt to contest their airspace. The Avenger is more like if we'd started developing a brand new all-guns dogfighter in the late 80s in case this whole radar and stealth thing didn't pan out.
>>65006413>Sort ofOpinion discardedContinue on with whatever idiocy enthralls you, no longer interested
>>65006442Under what circumstances might it have seen combat?
>>65004596if i remember correctly, it was some fuckery with trying to replace minesweepers with modular ships that could be adapted to become minesweepers... but those ships arent ready yetbasically selling the bike before you buy the car>>65004627i hate the stupid iranian regime, but i also hate the orange orangutan because like always, he misunderstood the situation, and arguably gave the regime a win on a platter by simply survivinglets wait and see, maybe this will not consolidate the regime and make it look stronger
>>65004928>redacted namesbest case scenario, its more corrupt redacting and those are co-conspirators being protectedworst case scenario, those are victims
>>65004627Less is more, they could have just posted this and gotten the same message across.
>>65004624Minesweepers in Hormuz will just get droned. You don't even need to significantly damage the ship, just its mine clearing ability.
>>65006442We'd be a lot better of militarily right now if the $100 billion that went into designing, procuring, and sustaining the F-22s had gone to the Zumwalts instead. Likewise, the money being spent on F-47 should be going to FA-XX instead. Air Combat Command has always been a leech on the US military and it should be folded back into the Army where they can't do so much damage to our readiness.
>>65004987It's just not deployed to Hormuz at all, is all. There's no mine clearing LCS near the minefield.
>>65006306>I think in pieces all over a room is kind of a weird “better place”.depends on the person. For some it can be an improvement.
>>65006597>it should be folded back into the Armyokay retard
>>65006687It was the most useful the Air Force has ever been.
>>65006287Helicopters are about as useful for minesweeping as a rubbernecker fucking up traffic on the interstate gawking at a car wreck, dumbass. "Only a handful of mines" says the fat fuck from his mom's house. Slow your roll, trumpbot. You're outed.
>>65006597HAHAHAAHA!NTA but Zumwalts have only ever been good for CGI masturbators who get off on vaporware. Your basement level, cheeto dust covered acquisition expertise is hilariously retarded. Thanks for that post! I haven't literally LOL'd at some stupid shit on here in a long time.
>>65006710>That ship we only built three of was obviously bad because we only bought three of them>Clearly we were better off letting our navy rot and spending that money on an airplane that's never done anything
>>65006695If helicopters are so bad at minesweeping, why did we use them instead of the Avengers?
>>65006564He assumed mass civil protest would do the rest of the work but there was like a couple-days window to capitalize on that and -maybe- give it a shot and that was back in December-January. After they cracked down and cut down and killed tens of thousands of protestors, cut off the internet and such it'd be much harder for what they hoped for to happen now. Firemen arriving after the building burnt down.
>>65006729Helicopters have NEVER been used to remove mines from anywhere, ever, midwit. They are middling useful for FINDING mines, if the seas and weather conditions are extremely forgiving while they're looking, or they're dropping a shitload of mag-sensors randomly, everywhere, all the time, and get lucky as fuck. It takes a boat to remove mines, genius. Unless you're one of those idiots who advocate using ordnance to blow them up with a secondary.
>>65006726>Pretending a vaporware ship program that is an international joke is better than an air platform that is universally fearedKeep going, shitwit
>>65006742You aren't even real don't talk about what's ever really happened in the world
>>65006742So why did they waste their money on MH-53Es and Mk.105s if they don't work?
>>65006748Ahhh. Now I see the problem
>>65006745The F-22 is just as vaporware as the Zumwalt, which is infinitely more embarassing because they built 200 of the things. Meanwhile, our navy is ancient because we only built 3 of what should have been the workhorse of the current generation.
>>65006756For the same reason the oiler fleet is an aging-out pile of shit. The support fleet acquisitions programs have been getting their asses kicked for 30 years by the assholes selling air assets. Are you actually stupid, or did you sustain a head injury as a baby?
>>65006765>They bought equipment that doesn't work and use it for a task they can't perform because of oilers???
>>65006764Keep jerking off to a failed program, pissboy. Nobody on planet earth agrees with you, including the people who were involved in the littoral ship program in the first place, dumbass.
>>65006769>Zumwalt>littoral shipOh, you're an actual retard. Got it.
>>65006766Are you the same brown, or are you a different one? It's so hard to tell as you all smell the same.
>>65006774Are you the same retard who thinks Zumwalt is an LCS?
>>65006773HAHAHA! A smarty-brown who probably isn't more than 20 years old.
>>65006775Thanks for verifying your samefag status, bozo
>>65006784I wasn't hiding it. So are you the same retard, or a different one?
>>65006791I may be retarded, but I'll never be brown. LOL
Dunno why you'd respect the posts of a dude who calls you brown for recognizing that the US Navy isn't helpless against sea mines.
>>65006797>helpless against minesAnother brown post by samefag. Never once even implied what you said there is true. But keep going, jeet. Enlighten all of us with your streetshitter wisdom about the most powerful navy on earth.
The spazzing is, at least, entertaining. I suppose he's mad because gas prices are going to go down over the next month, and he'll stop being paid by his current employer to spread disinfo about the war and current military capabilities.
>>65004627Iranian state sponsored 2020 Arab funny memes were not on my bingo card for this war.
>>65006833Going full brown, I see. Screeching on a cheap phone is all you really have, so it's understandable. I'm truly sorry your flipflops are among your most treasured possessions.
>>65004627If this is seriously by Iranians its funny as fuck. this world has become so unserious, MEMES jack!
>>65004715It uses drones so yes, it is in the area to do the job. Sorry you can't reach, turdie.
>>65006583Wojacks and its variants are for pentuple niggerfaggots
>>65006564>>65006735Sorry your family got missiles instead of pallets of cash, goatfuckers.
>>65006583Posting a destroyed ship doesn't destroy real ships.
>>65006742We have underwater drones that can go remove any mines the helicopters find, retard. It's so bizarre talking to thirdies and finding out they have this medieval understanding of technology. >>65006765Hey nigger read the thread you got btfo on this one already.
>>65006833Chinks are having a really bad time lately.
>>65008628We know, just look at the shartddit shooter. That's Iran's target audience though.
>>65008639>We have underwater drones that can go remove any mines the helicopters find, retard. But most of the time they don't need to because the helicopters have already removed the mines the dolphins found. The kind of mines that Iran has can easily and safely be set off just by dragging a big magnet over them. And demining a modern NATO minefield isn't really a concern, the mines are designed to go inert after a few months so you just stop deploying mines once the war is over and let everyone know when the area is safe again.The only kind of mines that actually require sending out a drone to careful disarm them rather than just remotely detonating them with a decoy sled are the peak of Cold War tech, and basically only Russia and China have stockpiles of them.
>>65008639Keep jerking off, pissboy. Those retarded power fantasies you have everyday aren't going to endorphin themselves.
>>65004627I like how they show themselves bravely attacking bases and warships instead of their actual strategy of targeting Gulf state civilians and unarmed merchant ships, very good OPSEC!
>>65004627Remind me which day this was?
>>65004627>our president is so retarded even Ayy-rabs can make funny memes about himalright thirdies... for today only, I'll give you the W...
>>65006735And they missed that window because they were busy bullying fucking Venezuela of all places.
>>65004596>Why did the Navy do..... X?The Navy is vastly more regulated than the other branches. Navy didn't want LCS, got it. Didn't want to scuttle the F-14s and A-6s, was ordered to. Thought the DDG-1000 was actually retarded, ordered to build and operate it. Shocking how tourists think these decisions were made inside the actual armed forces. I guess it's a never served brown hands weird outlet no guns thing.
>>65004596Because no self respecting Admiral would ever step foot on a mere minesweeper.
>>65004627The Iranian face should be getting killed every two or three seconds, or replaced with a cardboard cutout.
>>65006289He looks up at us.
>>65010573What a ridiculous claim
>>65005075I love how its close to "yeah whatcha gonna do? Bomb us?"
>>65009810It's more brave and heroic than double tapping schoolgirls.
>>65010487>Navy didn't want LCSWhy would you just go and make up shit like this?
>>65004627Strong mobile ad energyStill kek'd
>>65004624That's open to debate. LCS is not designed to operate in the middle of a minefield, correct. It is designed to be a launch platform for helos, USVs, and UUVs which are designed to actually go into a minefield, detect mines, and destroy them.The trick is that there are 3 kinds of mines. The first is Ye Olde WWI floating contact mine. Relatively cheap, simple to make. The second kind is just the first with an anchor cut to just the right length to keep the mine a few feet under the surface of the water, so that it stays in place and is hard to see and shoot. The third kind... is bottom mines. Those are the nasty ones, hard to detect, hard to kill. And because they're electronically-detonated, they can use any combination of passive sonar, magnetic detector, and even pressure to go off. Good ones can be programmed to ignore small ships and wait for large ones, or to hit the third ship in a convoy that passes over, or any number of options. The Avengers and Ospreys were designed to have low magnetic signatures, but they still had thousand-ton pressure signatures, and while they were quiet, passive sonars are really good these days. On paper, small, lightweight, unmanned (and therefore more expendable than manned) vehicles are the way to go.The catch is that development of the minesweeping module for LCS was somewhat botched; some parts didn't work at all, others were too heavy, etc. The ASW and SuW modules also had major issues of their own. Everybody wants to blame somebody else for it, so it's hard to figure out exactly who's to blame for which part, but at the end of the day, all 3 module types come out with something less than what they were originally promised as.The big question is: is the LCS "good enough" to sweep Iranian minefields? I don't know. The best way to deal with them is clearly to destroy anything that might be able to lay them, and that is happening. If Iran does get some mines laid... well, we'll see.
>>65004868They could still set off pressure-based switches. A computerized pressure switch that's smart enough to not go off until a hull passes by with a high rate-of-bearing (which means that it's close) can still ruin a minesweeper's day.
>>65006050Except... he's right. A ROV *is* a type of UUV.
>>65006287The sleds have been retired.
>>65004596I don't want to alarm you but the top minds have not been in charge for some time.These retards can't even build a frigate
>>65010984You don't understand, Anon. you see, the Navy NEVER makes mistakes! It was all Steiner's fault!
>>65004821Depends. For like WW2 style moored mines, yeah. For more modern captor type mines that's probably where you have to give the edge to the LCS
>>65011980Source?
>>65012021>WW2-style drag cables are better for mine clearing because... Well, they just ARE, okay?!?
>>65012021>This hull that is not optimised for mine warfare and so attracts mines like flies to honey is just as good or better than a hull that is because, uh... It's newer I guess.
>>65012687>The wooden ship that's literally rotting away is better because it can (read: has to) go into the place where you absolutely don't want to go if you can help it, regardless of what your hull is made of>The modern ship that uses modern mine clearing techniques that don't put the ship and crew in danger is worse because muh faustian spirit or some shit
>>65012718>The wooden non magnetic ship that therefore doesn't set of metal detecting mines is far superior to sail into a minefield with than one that will attract mines like flies to honeyYes.
theres no way putin is that smallwho are his judo opponents, BABIES? absurd!
>>65012723What you're missing is that the wooden hulled ship is still susceptible to contact mines that are used to dissuade minesweeping attempts, and that the LCS doesn't have to go anywhere near the minefield to perform its duties.
>>65012739Well then send it and see what happens.
>>65012752Sure, we'll just deal with the USVs and AShMs first. You didn't think the Avenger would do any better against those, did you?
>>65012757Probably quite well against the anti ship missiles considering that wood is also invisible to radar.
>>65012762Damn, why did we waste all of this money on stealth tech when we could just go back to making wood airplanes like in ww2?
>>65012763If it's stupid but it works then it isn't stupid.
>>65012723Chainmail is better than plate carrier at stopping a broadsword. Therefore, we should equip all of our troops with chainmail.
>>65012025Source was somebody in an earlier thread. Turns out you're right, though: the MH-53E is in the *process* of being retired (which began last spring), but won't *complete* that process until next year. So, there might still be some still kicking around. After they're gone, though, I'm not sure what else could possibly tow a Mk 105, and the USN's direction seems to be entirely aimed at Seahawks carrying lighter gear, with the bulk of the work performed by USVs and UUVs. Which makes sense, because the Mk 105 can't do much about pressure mines or mines smarter than a simple amplitude-based magnetometer.
>>65006756>So why did they waste their money on MH-53Es and Mk.105s if they don't work?Because the mk 105 only simulates the magnetic field around a ship, not the pressure wave or the sounds made by ships. It only works on mines which are magnetic field only, the idea being that the helicopter drags the sled trough the area of a suspected minefield until the sled blows up. The helicopter escapes the blast by being in the air and well ahead of the sled.
>>65012771>I'm not sure what else could possibly tow a Mk 105Not that specific sweep sled but a USV deployed by the LCS (or by shored based units) is the principal "sweep platform" of the USN. Do note however that sweeping is becoming less useful as better/smarter mines proliferate.Also, I haven't seen anyone mention it but all the remaining MH-53Es (these are the specific helo that does MCM for the USN; the so called Sea Dragon) - about two dozen or so - are based in Norfolk and usually forward deploy 2-3 to Bahrain at a time on rotation. I haven't seen any official word onwhether they are there or not but it seems likely they are somewhere in the area, though probably not still in Bahrain specifically as that is too obvious a target.
>>65012771>I'm not sure what else could possibly tow a Mk 105Hmm, I wonder...https://news.lockheedmartin.com/2023-08-24-U-S-Navy-Awards-Sikorsky-Contract-to-Build-35-CH-53K-R-Helicopters>>65012778The sleds aren't destroyed. Also there's the Mk 106 that does both magnetic and acoustic influence. And yes, some mines are smart enough to not be triggered by any sort of countermeasure. The LCS is well equipped to deal with those; their embarked MH-60S helicopters are equipped with AN/ASQ-235 Archerfish drones. The traditional method of disposing of those types of mines is using EOD divers. Would you rather drop a drone on the mine or drive a wooden boat up to it and have a guy jump off the side and try and disarm it underwater, or have him attach a cable to it and drag it to the surface so you can shoot it with a .50 cal? Actually, don't answer that, it does sound kind of awesome. The option that doesn't put the crew at risk is the best one, though.
>>65011889>all 3 module types come out with something less than what they were originally promised as.Where can one find these promises of what the modules would be?
>>65012804>https://news.lockheedmartin.com/2023-08-24-U-S-Navy-Awards-Sikorsky-Contract-to-Build-35-CH-53K-R-HelicoptersTell us more about how the F/A-18A and F/A-18F are the same plane and can do all the same missions.
>>65012826Which missions does the Navy still use the F/A-18A for?
>>65012833Do you know what an analogy is?
>>65012833do the growler than fucking pussy bitch
>>65012833His point is that different variants may have different specialized capabilities. For example, does the sled produce its own power? Can it be controlled by the helo (e.g., changing the signature it's putting out)? A pure cargo variant isn't likely to have those capabilities.
>>65012840I do, you just chose a stupid one. The F/A-18A was replaced by the F/A-18E Super Hornet, a variant of the same airframe as the F/A-18F. So by analogy, it's entirely possible that we'll see an MH-53K King Dragon variant of the CH-53K King Stallion airframe.
>>65012851>I do, you just chose a stupid one.Can you explain why SPECIFICALLY it was stupid?>So by analogyWhat does this even mean in this context. Are you just saying shit because you think it makes you sound smart?>it's entirely possible that we'll see an MH-53K King Dragon variant of the CH-53K King Stallion airframe.No it isn't. Have you see a single person in the military even come close to suggesting this? Or is this just your wishful thinking that you are insisting is reality?
>>65012859...do you not know what an analogy is?
Congress tried to get the Navy to do this years ago.https://web.archive.org/web/20250519080551/https://www.defensedaily.com/senate-suggests-sikorsky-ch-53k-navy-mine-hunting/congress/Navy said no.
>>65005436>New ships have no legs any more
>>65012863So you have nothing and are now running away. You still have yet to address the original point of interest beyond just declaring yourself correct and deflecting from otherwise engaging. I think I'm done interacting with you.
>>65012807I'd start with something like everycrsreport.com/RL33741.html, gao.gov/assets/gao-16-201.pdf, and a follow-up gao.gov/assets/gao-22-105387.pdf, but here's a sample:SUW: was built around NETFIRES (30-60) with a 20NM range. It's now based around Longbow (24), with a range of under 5NM.ASW: 404 Module Not Found (cancelled).MCM: OASIS (cancelled). RAMICS (cancelled). USV (redesigned with reduced capabilities). UUV (ditto).Then, there are the non-module-related issues, which we've argued over a bunch across the years, but that's another topic.
>>65012888I stand by everything I said. The original statement I was responding to was:>I'm not sure what else could possibly tow a Mk 105and a CH-53K could absolutely tow a Mk 105. The same way that variants of the Super Hornet were built to fill all of the roles of the classic hornet, it would absolutely be possible to build a variant of the CH-53K with the MH-53E's expanded fuel cells. I made no claims as to whether that was a thing the Navy was planning to do.
>>65012882You're seriously giving me Time Bandits flashbacks.
>>65012899>SUW: was built around NETFIRES (30-60) with a 20NM range. It's now based around Longbow (24), with a range of under 5NM.But now also an unknown number of LUCAS with a 500 mile range.
>>65012899First link is dead. Other two links are the GAO reports that everyone has seen before and still have all the same issues that no one ever wants to address. Its surprising how little actual official issue there is with the program outside of GAO. I would honestly expect there to be more but this is all anyone can ever point to. Anyways, this is what I wanted to know about and I couldn't find any of that in your links:>MCM: OASIS (cancelled). RAMICS (cancelled). USV (redesigned with reduced capabilities). UUV (ditto).
>>65012899Have you never witnessed a military design process before?
>>65012929>OASISALQ-220>RAMICSAN/AWS-2Mk 258 MOD 1 (pretty neat but I guess it didn't work well)>USVLockheed Remote Multimission Vehicle (original)Textron CUSV (current)>UUVKnifefish (current, and I think also the original)>He didn't mention it, but also the variable depth sonar for the ASW packageAN/SQS-62 (aka Raytheon DART)That should help you search for specifics, but there's not a lot to be found about all of them, some were canceled pretty early in development.
>>65012955Thanks, I'm eating dinner. I'll look into it later.
>>65012955>>65012929Both of you remember how lasers and a bunch of other shit was seemingly cancelled or dead ends until the US pulled it out of nowhere fully functional, right? We haven't forgotten events that recent, have we?
>>65012843Yes, are you retarded?
>>65013033Yeah, I don't know, anon. Using a robotic Bushmaster cannon to shoot underwater mines from a helicopter sounds like the kind of thing that was worth a try but not worth throwing money after when they realized it didn't work. I think the Independence is in a pretty good place now, it's cheap and very capable and all of the modules work, even the ASW module once they swapped out the DART for CAPTAS-4 like everyone else uses. The fact that some of the long shots didn't pan out doesn't bother me.
>OPBecause the Pentagon 2026 is a joke
>>65012762>>65012763
>>65013080The exact same thing was said, couched in the exact same terms, about lasers. Even worded with the same kind of Democrat-mouthed slimy concern trolling.
>>65012955>ALQ-220Development of this predates the establishment of the LCS program. Seems kind of reaching to place the blame entirely there. Besides, it was also intended to be surface towed and its pretty clear that the work on this went into what became the UISS.>AN/AWS-2This a radar from the cold war. It shouldn't be confused with the AWS-2, which was the second (internal) iteration of the RAMICS. Pretty sure its just short for "Advanced Weapon System [version] 2.">Mk 258 MOD 1From everything I have seen, it works just fine. Its just they didn't move forward with the system surronding it so no need for the rounds to be produced.>RAMICSAgain, this program well predates the LCS. It even got all the way to LRIP The (public) issue became there was some sort of issue with the mountings for the system on the helicopter and it resulted in some sort of cost issue. Personally, I think there is more to the story that we never got. The entire R&D cost well south of 100M and the procurement cost was something less than 10M for a complete system (with rounds costing in the low double-digits). I'm not saying there were no issues but something just doesn't add up.As a sort of aside: If we ever get into a major war that involves a fair amount of torpedoes being tossed around, I expect for them to revist this and come up with a CIWS style version to mount on ships.>Lockheed Remote Multimission Vehicle (original)Shifting away from this (to the CUSV) is a GOOD thing. Anyone pining away for this is just being a contrarian. It was big, it broke down all the time, it struggled to find bottom/buried mines, and - most damning - it required a fibreoptic cable to work (which means it couldn't go far, could get tangled in things, and was easy to break). Meanwhile the CUSV is shaping up to be a beast and not just for MCM. There is very little that it can't do that the RMMV could and it trades that for a lot of other advantages.
>>65012955>>65014404>Knifefish (current, and I think also the original)Navy and MIC has/had been kicking around a lot of UUV designs for a long time. Early on quite a few were entertained to get integrated into the LCS program. Knifefish itself isn't even an original idea but rather a refinement of an earlier GenDy system whose name currently escapes me. I would put money down that there is at least one UUV that the LCS can use that the public doesn't know about. Probably in relation to its earlier planned use as a specops or small detachment insertion platform.>AN/SQS-62 (aka Raytheon DART)Don't get me started. All I'm gonna say is: Fuck the Freedom. Fuck FMM.I know you weren't the original person I was replying to, but you are the one who actually responded so I just went through the stuff you said. Maybe you'll get something out of it or maybe it'll just be enlightening to some lurker. Or -and we both know this is the real reason - it just feels good to see sane shit posted in the thread and not just endlessly reading the headcanon schizobabble of an endless parade of retards.
>>65014398Except that lasers were always obviously a thing that could be done, just not with the tech of the time. There's a reason that lasers feature heavily in scifi and weird underwater bullets don't.
>>65014404>predates the establishment of the LCS program.Well yeah, the point of the LCS was to be a platform for integrating a bunch of advanced and unmanned systems that were already in a conceptual stage. Honestly, if you just replaced the Hellfires of the SSMM with a navalized Switchblade 600, I think it would meet the original project goals pretty well across the board.
>>65014539>the point of the LCS was to be a platform for integrating a bunch of advanced and unmanned systems that were already in a conceptual stageI'm not sure I entirely believe that but I'm willing to take it on face for the moment. Isn't it kind of impressive how well it turned out then?
>>65014614It was the point as much as anything was the point. It was supposed to be a small ship with a small crew, then it turned into a moderate size ship with a small crew early in the conceptual stage, with lots of automated and unmanned systems to take up the slack.And yes, it's turned out quite well on the whole, especially the Independence. This, of course, only increases the level of seething from people who were memed into thinking it's a terrible concept that was foisted upon the Navy by... someone.
>>65014474>directed energy weapons are less out there than drones that swim instead of flyare you high
>>65016217>than drones that swim instead of flyWhen did I say this? I said that directed energy weapons are less out there than robotic Bushmaster cannons that shoot underwater mines from helicopters.
>>65004627more effort is put into something like this, than retarded ai sloppa, so they get points for that.
>>65004627kek, based iraniansit's actually insane how global opinion is more pro-iran than pro-america when iran is, objectively, a worse nation (but not by much)
>>65016876>global opinion is more pro-iran than pro-americaDefine "global"
>>65017311Nta but i think hes semi right - but its not so much pro iran as anti israel sentiment. Its bizarre that the same peoole who bleat about muh handmaids tale etc are now supporting a theocratic patriarchy.
>>65004627>Posts a silly cartoon while their country is bombed to rubble Somehow retards will say this is evidence Iran is winning.
>>65017343Give an actual answer instead of samefagging and going "because it is"
