>waste time and money on LCS>half-cancelled>waste time and money on Zumwalt class>cancelled>waste time and money on Constellation class>cancelledWhat in the FUCK is their problem?
>>65007876Congress
>>65007876I think you mean USN: Hi, we would like a new clean sheet cruiser design to replace the stopgap Ticos, a generational upgrade of the Tomcat, and a new LO attack aircraft to eventually replace the A-6 at some pointCongress: "Fuck you, we are going to force you to buy not one but two completely different classes of LCS you literally never asked for and protested against, a NGS cruiser you explicitly said was retarded because the marine vetbro lobby thinks it's a good idea, were going to order you to literally shred your most capable aircraft without replacement, cancel your A-12 program and then literally force you to throw your newly upgraded and rewinged A-6s over board because we fucking hate you. "
>>65007876military industrial complex would rather lobby congress to waste money by canceling projects they were already paid for and starting new ones than to build quality military equipment
>>65007997>military industrial complex would rather lobby congress to waste money by canceling projects they were already paid for and starting new ones than to build quality military equipmentAre you retarded? Its more profitable to build 30 Zumwalt's than it is to build three.
>>65008001Not exactly. You get more revenue, yes, but as a proportion it is actually less profitable. That said I'm not really convinced it was active MIC corruption so much as Congress being literally retarded
After Desert Storm, the boomers in Congress thought "woah, these 'airplane' things are awesome, we should buy more of them!" And then they took the money that should have built the Navy's next generation destroyer and spent it on an airplane that the Air Force didn't need and didn't use. And it's only gotten worse over time, now they're wasting money on F-47 AND Sentinel while the Navy rots away.
>>65007876Is it Congress or the Department of the Navy that is uncomfortable with frigates being expendable and prone to sinking? From what I recall, a ton of the problems with the Constellation mods was that they were trying to make it safe as a Burke.
>>65008258LCS was the Navy's idea and it was designed to be attritable. Then there was much kvetching over how the Navy was trying to get American sailors killed, which ultimately concluded in the Constellation shitshow and then buying a worse version of the LCS than either of the two in service.
>>65007923This is how it really happened. I was watching the latter procurement programs like a hawk, and I was floored by how little input the Navy was allowed to provide. It's like the Air Farce made the Navy an AF subsidiary they could rob and influence without needing to ask.My two cents on it from what I looked at was that the Navys procurement people were roughly 30 years older on average to their AF counterparts. They dog walked the negotiators and made them sound like retarded boomers. (Not wrong, to be fair). The huge money went to F22/F35 development, and the scraps that were left went to deliberately made boondoggles the Navy didn't want that made them look incompetent and undeserving of the money that would then all be transferred to the AF. Plus, there's a shitton more MICshekels to make selling planes and missiles. Not every country even has a navy.
>>65008450>My two cents on it from what I looked at was that the Navys procurement people were roughly 30 years older on average to their AF counterparts.Reminds me of the scouting room scenes in Moneyball.
>>65008450The Navy was split on the LCS idea, the pro-LCS camp bribed a bunch of senators with a lockmart contract that ended up shooting themselves in the foot with massive delays and cost overruns. But they won in the end because the Navy is now full of LCS captains and ex-LCS captains who think the LCS program is fine.Zumwalt in general wasn't as controversial but had more people nitpicking specific aspects. People thought it looked dumb, that the guns were dumb, that it was too expensive, and that the motors were too ambitious. In the end, stealth ended up winning and there's lots of ships out there with ziggurat superstructures, the guns WERE dumb but were required by congressional mandate and ultimately gave it the space to fit actually useful weapons, it ended up only being 30% more expensive than a Burke and probably would have come in even cheaper with a large buy, and even though they ended up shelving the permanent magnet motors, that tech ended up powering the upcoming Columbia class and probably also SSN(X), so it wasn't wasted development.
>>65008001no, it's more profitable to build 3 and get paid for 10 than it is to build 30 and get paid for 30
>>65007876You left out SC-21, CG-21, CG(X), A-12, and a whole bunch of Amtrac replacement attempts on the Corps side.
>>65007876They don't know what they want and they don't know how to sell it Congress.Also it doesn't help that they weren't really useful in the GWOT, so all their priorities were ignored.
>>65010591SC-21 was an early name for Zumwalt, CG-21 and CG(X) were likewise the same program. The EFV was canceled in favor of the cheaper and easier to maintain ACV, which is now in service.
>>65007876Congress. There really needs to be a law that states Congress CAN NOT back out of a arms procurement deal once signed.
>>65008609The Navy was pretty uniformly against the LCS and dead set against the two classes both being used. The small group of people in favor of it just saw it as a replacement for the Heron minehunters, which was supposed to be one its ancillary capabilities and ironically ended up being about the only thing they could do. Most of the uniformed USN objections were to the crew manning aspect which they were very hostile too. DDG1000 had slightly more support as there had long been a need and desire for a new cruiser so the hope was okay sure we will put this retarded gun on it but in practice just use it as a cruiser. Which didn't end well exactly
>>65011985They specifically gave themselves outs because contractors would drag their feet and milk spiraling costs. Blame the American people for voting for idiots. Remember, Zumwalt was cancelled in part because of the idiotic stipulation she be used for shore bombardment, mandated by Congress.
>>65012007>Vice Admiral Art Cebrowski and Admiral Vernon Clark were not part of the NavyInteresting. How many other American admirals aren't affiliated with the US Navy?
>>65007876>>65007997>What in the FUCK is their problemfor the answer,See : ----- >>65014665>>65014665
