Western humanitarianism is completely fucking us.Our ideas of war, this bullshit with some threats, sanctions, "the coalition", then the air war... we know how it ALWAYS goes. Rolling back the enemy layers while trying to not murder "the people".Why?Why not begin as a baseline with pure mulching numbers with the advantage being not some retarded COIN-huffing *^REGIMECHANGE^*? Why are we strategically slicing away refineries and single ships tied up empty in port?The United states has the power to begin a set amount of murder per day, and if the enemy doesn't surrender it can go on another day forever.No more hiding behind your bargain bin Pol Pot, the regime getting changed is your ghettos on fire.The enemy will never suddenly understand and become civilized. The enemy will hide in a hole in the dirt with an RPG 7 years after you killed his cult leaders. Even the post war picture is better with complete eradication. Our urge to reset the area and rebuild can be wonderfully channeled in a newly deserted say "subcontinent".Overpopulation goes down, pollution goes down, weapons get super cheap and mass produced; who gives a fuck about guidance when there is "explosions per square meter"?Thirdies will never ever be worth the cost of doing anything but unlimited saturation bombing until we can't find anyone who wants to surrender.So can we compare and contrast the School of Surgical versus the School of Blood? Historic examples either way?
https://youtu.be/D-z2Y3NRJRA?si=fh6BB_RA7EYPrvRQGod damn I love methodically deleting grid squares by opening the door and dumping hellfire.
See this? This didn't cost the computing power of NASA 1955-1978. This cost "Bombs free, over?", "weapons free, sir, check". And in this AOE, fuck strategy.
Aviation technology peaks with the bomber, and it is more wasteful to invest in the bomb than the delivery, it's QED.
It's logistics, not some hate motivation. The enemy can't keep up with wounded, production, sanitation, anything.They will fold much faster in every situation if the alternative is total violence.
>>650133931. you're an edgy retard2. without using WMD, we don't have enough munitions and airframes for WW2 era carpet bombing3. said WW2 era carpet bombing failed to make germany and japan surrender 4. you're a retard
The WWII fire raids didn't "target" shit. You can't surrender to Fire and be taken to a red cross camp. You can't negotiate with a blast wave.
>>65013425It's not edge, it's reducing everything to numbers.We CAN have the number of aircraft, with our picture of air superiority lately.WWII era carpet bombing DID make it impossible to produce war materials.It's not edge, it's the logical fix for spiraling costs.
Further, in the same way the Marshall Plan didn't civilize Iraq or Afghanistan when we re-ran it. It can't. We can't treat some dirt ass backwater like a euro power.
Alternatively, look at what we get with our wonder-tech.Wow, we can legit punch a missile through one side of a bulding to kill Mohammed on the other side, and not collapse the building or kill one other person, GREAT!Murder Mohammed is not a rare resource, they don't become afraid because he died. This doesn't work. They will NEVER hate us less no matter what.
From a post war angle, forced capitulation may save lives. Currently the enemy has hope; the united states kicks your ass and suddenly your GDP triples and you have schools? BULLSHIT.If there is NO hope, the wars will be short, if ever even happening.
>>65013431>We CAN have the number of aircraftwe're not going to spend trillions of dollars building a huge bomber fleet to level another middle east shit hole >>65013431>WWII era carpet bombing DID make it impossible to produce war materials.the germs military production increased during the bombing campaign
>>65013393you are literally seeing the results of your "if we just bomb them hard enough they are bound to surrender eventually" strategy right now and its not workingjust like it didn't work last time, or the time before that
>>65013504This is what I think I'm NOT seeing. Tehran is not conventionally flat. Major industrial centers exist in large part, basically right now there is something to rebuild so I say we aren'tWe're doing the targeted thing. Again.>>65013501Starting with today's picture. But we can fly a fleet of tin can teenage operated super fortresses. If they don't have stealth, we can make MANY more. Same with the bombs.Lastly, I say again, hard carpet bombing reduces enemy capacity, not morale. It works.
>>65013533I assure you the united states is currently bombing Iran just about as hard as it can without using nukesIts going to go about as well as every other attempt at conventionally bombing a nation into submission has
>>65013535Understand dude. This is fatigue.I'm not particularly mad at Iran.But we are not selecting grid squartes and eliminating them, we're punching daggers through windows.Hormuz... sir why is that a threat? Why isn' OUR first move to mine their coast solid and LEAVE IT THERE FOREVER?We're allergic to extreme solutions but everywhere we fight, we fight extremists.
>>65013545you idiot, the whole fucking point of precision weapons is that they let you kill the important shit without having to lug in enough ordnance to delete a grid square just to get the job doneMinimising the dirt turned to sortie ratio is how you get maximal value from bombing, throwing the same amount of explosives with less accuracy does nothing but increase cost and wear on your planes for the same or worse resultThere is no amount of bombing that will unblock the strait because all Iran needs to do to keep it shut is send out a handful of man portable USVs and UAVs to hit a tanker/plant a mine once a month and no one else will try to get through
>>65013393>Western humanitarianism is completely fucking usThe benefits of civilisation and being civilised are like drinkable tap water.Not everyone gets it.
>>65013565Great, I have 2 wonderful fixes.We're the united states, we actually can bring the noise. You're a doomer.Move 1 should have been closing Hormuz forever, physically."Good job Iran, now what?">>65013566We can have justice systems and civil rights and they can explode, it does work.
I mean jesus christ guys, the current meta is being the goddamn Borg. We take your culture, make it a food truck, and fuck your homeland.We're not hitting full send on what we plainly want and try to do with our power.
>>65013573>Move 1 should have been closing Hormuz forever, physically.>"Good job Iran, now what?"You literally have shit for brains, or what? We want the strait OPEN, so oil gets MOVING
>>65013434People spout this but Iraq is breddy good
>Western humanitarianism is completely fucking us. Our ideas of war, this bullshit with some threats, sanctions, "the coalition", then the air war... we know how it ALWAYS goes. Rolling back the enemy layers while trying to not murder "the people". Why?
>>65013610Monke did not do this.
We can dispense with superiority and race theories. This has nothing to do with war.If we destroy Hormuz it's off the table. It can't be a threat.
>>65013656>Monke did not do this.Because he can't.He sure tried though.
>>65013656Monke and his warbands tried to do that on very first attempt and even fucked that up
>>65013393Do remind me, how did Total War go for the Third Reich? Wasting resources on blowing up random peasants does not win wars.
America didn't become the global hegemon by being a horrible tyrant everyone hates.If you treat people well it is easier to control them, this is the American strategy. If you become so frustrated with just one part of the globe that you piss away your control of the rest you are fucking retarded.
>>65013671Correct.The only application for his forces is "rolling thunder" then meatwave. A special operation is a thousand years above them.We're also not Germany and this fear holds america back. This shit is all woman brain scaremongering.Why don't we just DO IT. Kill every male, take every coin, leave them nothing. Actually salt the earthThen we save lives.
>>65013715Ok bud. I get it. But it's not working out, I am sorry.
>>65013393Stop posting, Pete. You're drunk, as usual.
>>65013718It isn't working out but if you sperg out and glass the enemy in tard rage you will have gained a scorched wasteland and exchange lost huge amounts of global control.Now I know that America is an empire in decline but there is no reason to want to hasten the downfall...
>>65013501>germs military production increased during the bombing campaignThat claim is dubious, the figure of approx 39k aircraft produce in Germany in 1944 is not reflected in the overall strength of the Luftwaffe, the claimed production of single engined fighters for that year is 36k; 3k per month, but in 1944 the Luftwaffe increased its fighter strength only from 1,500 to 2,200 on all fronts. Even if you account for damaged planes put in for repair as the same as total frame losses, there are still 8,000 fighters that are missing (presumably never produced). In reality the German aircraft industry probably produced fewer planes in 1944 than they did in 1943. It's difficult to quantify the effect of the Allied bombing campaign, but it was significant in keeping the Germans anywhere near their desired production goals.
>>65013393https://voca.ro/1fUCbs4ZgN9j
>>65013393Yeah the paradox of tolerance is actively destroying Western civilisationBut we shouldn't throw away the IHL just for thatWe fought WW2 just fine while adhering to the conventions
>>65013393>Historic examplesGo look at the Strategic Bombing Surveys.The tl;dr of teh reports is 'it kinda worked but not really until we hit the enemy fuel supply in Europe and figured out the whole fighter escort thing, even then German production was kinda stable though conditions kept getting worse'The greatest actual effect was achieved after the Normandy landings when the 'transportation plan' paralyzed the German ground forces, which alowed the Allied armies to reach the Rhine.On teh pacific side the japs were starving and out of fuel due to the naval blockade but the nukes really showed them what's what (probably) and firebombing would have finished them even without nukes (probably).In case it wasn't obvious, it's a post-facto justification excercise by the bomber mafia. They gloss over the fuckhuge opportunity cost, hide the lack of actual effect behind the massive destruction of largely irrelevant targets and ignore the fact that at no point morale of any targetted civillian population ever broke.This latter part is what doomed the US air campaigns in Korea and Vietnam. Luckily, the bomber mafia was aging out at that point.
>>65013726I wouldn't use nukes. I think Dresden and the japanese firebomb targets are pretty ideal.>>65013737That's kinda good but the effect clubs the pronounciation, it'd be funnier if it was a little more clear. But reverb might help.
>>65013743Thanks for the tip, breh. I will work harder.
>>65013741Well again. Vietnam; carpet bombing worked. Politicos and hippies didn't.
>>65013745I'm interested in production lately. MIDI in the modern age has finally gotten strange in the way it promised. Do you know you can hook house plants to a synth and they do play music in response to things?This costs $20 american btw.Yeah I'll take my tech in VR drawing in Blender or something. War works just like a bolt action rifle; it does the job with iron and wood and not fucking lasers.Lets get real, this is the enemy. Global Poor.
>>65013733The point is their production was not grinding to a halt.What really hit the German industry was strikes against fuel production, and transportation (primarily bridges IIRC, this stopped German reinforcements in France)
>>65013743>I think Dresden and the japanese firebomb targets are pretty ideal.And indeed what do you think for example Germany and Japan, prime US vassals, might think of such things? Maybe remind the Japs about pearls harbor just to rub it in a bit more?
>>65013753WWII germany was far more civilized than today's Iran, modernity is a thin veneer there.
>>65013754I'm sorry we're proud we stopped the baby bayonet party? With carpet bombing btw.
The "regime" and the people are the same. If the regime exists, the people are unwilling to pay to get rid of it and instead choose the regimes barbarian ways.We must halt this shit before we get lightsabers. The West is the only path off this rock.
The point is to reduce the death of Europeans.It's not needed for other races.
>>65013752>Do you know you can hook house plants to a synth and they do play music in response to things?That's some John Cage shit, bro. I love it.
>>65013763Anon, the strategic enemy isn't a race or a person or something, they just are. They exist in opposition, your anger isn't helping.To help them we need to graduate their whole thing, not just give them a powerplant!If you're watching the country delete like a linear progress bar, surrender is the only way.Help THEM choose the right thing.
This might even be darwinian, as nature so abhors complete bantu hut shitbags it created Voltron States Of America to beat them across the finish line of progress.
>>65013747>carpet bombing workedSort of, I guess. Vietnam largely proved that precision guided strikes were way, WAY more effective at destroying targets.
>>65013782But in asymmetrical war, the enemy is the whole people.
House is a better doctor than Ben Carson and we know it
>>65013766Someday, among seven thousand projects, I want to do the Pat Methaney thing with a drum kit and make it robot operated.Which, with ground drones we CAN secure a fighting line, beginning on the beach and delivering pure scorched earth until surrender.
Western military logic has looked at ultimate horror and turned away. Isn't that insane? When humans want to avoid horror it become a tactical move to isolate the enemy's choices to compliance and horror.As long as we're providing the alternative future of voting and gay rights and stuff ort whatever is nice. Politics becomes a banal irrelevant thing in the face of war.
COIN, Hearts and Minds, Development...Let me say I'm willing to entertain it as a military policy and objective set; show me it ever worked ever in the third world. Which shithole is no longer a shithole?
>>65013393If carpet bombing everything was the correct strategy, they would be doing that. They're not doing that, so clearly it's not the correct strategy in this scenario.
>>65013738You fought it allied with stalin, who was even worse than the austrian painter. And had no problem him slaughtering millions in his own concentration camps as long as it is geographically out of sight, out of mind.WW2 is morally no high ground to stand on
>>65013434>Further, in the same way the Marshall Plan didn't civilize Iraq or Afghanistan when we re-ran it. Nobody re-ran shit. It was a neocon grift for Halliburton and pals. Lots of boomers in "construction and logistics services" got boats and planes.
