>>65017257
>Indians fear about the cowboys the most
Pox blankets and culling all their bison

>>65017257
>What was the most feared weapon of the Indians
The lever-action rifle. What people don't get is that by the end of the frontier the remaining tribes had more modern weapons than eastern Europe.
>>65017258
Obviously not the pox blankets, as otherwise they'd know not to accept them.

>>65017258
That was fake, germ theory wasn't understood then. It might not even be real

>>65017257
White Americans defeated injuns through industrialization, zerg rushes and long term tactics.

The Natives actually had a higher k:d ratio against white settlers for much of the westward expansion but there were just way more whites to replace them and whites were literally 2000 years more advanced and had modern mass production by the latter half. Contrary to what is fronted by a lot of the left, there were never a lot of natives in the entire northern 2/3rds of the US. Most of those natives were pastoral or hunter gatherers. Whites outnumbered them already by 1800. Disease killed off a lot more than combat. Only in the southwest were whites outnumbered until the last century, and those natives are actually still around.

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>>65017291
>What people don't get is that by the end of the frontier the remaining tribes had more modern weapons than eastern Europe.

That's probably still true. The New Mexico national guard could likely defeat what remains of the Russian ground forces.

>>65017305
We don't really know how populated North America was, but its estimated that upto 90% of the population were killed but European diseases in some areas. Tribes started kidnapping children to raise as their own because numbers dropped so low

>>65017257
How many injuns actually died in combat against whites/Europeans? All the battles I've read about have been fairly small, and even the "atrocities" usually only involve a few hundred people, and are rarely as clear cut as they're made out to be.
Reality just seems to be a far cry from the wholesale slaughter that modern, biased historians painted it as.

https://www.npr.org/2011/09/20/140630565/americas-2nd-largest-indian-tribe-expels-blacks

>>65017348
Many were forcibly displaced, rather than killed. The trails of tears involved some 60k people.

>>65017373
based tbqh

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>>65017257
>Feared Indian weapon
They shit in the children's splash pads in Plano and take over all the streets in North DFW. It's already fallen.
>Feared cowboy weapon
We had 58 year old white women in parking lots screaming how much they hated Indians. But the FBI arrested her for hate crimes. We lost our last hope against the dot Indians.

>>65017258
>Pox blankets
Wasn't a thing
>culling all their bison
Indians were a bigger issue with that, after they got their hands on large amount of guns they started hunting insane amounts of bison.

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>>65017649
>Indians were a bigger issue with that
Debatable.

>>65017332
>but its estimated that upto 90% of the population were killed but European diseases in some areas.
Basically bullshit. As an example, the Cherokee lost about half their population to the initial epidemic, then maintained a stable population level until the trail of tears, which killed again half of them.
Far from being devastated by plagues, the Comanche retained a stable population until Texas got seriously colonised. The Navajo weren't defeated by plagues, either, but by the army setting their fields on fire and eliminating their lifestock (mostly sheep).
The population densities the Spaniards encountered around the Mississippi in the 16th century also matched those the French saw in the early 18th century.
The impact of plagues wasn't zero, but it'a absurdly exaggerated. What collapsed the native societies were never, not once, plagues. It was always military defeat followed by losing their means of sustenance.
It is not a coincidence that native societies that were subdued late (Mapuche, Navajo) number into the millions, while the ones who were struck at first (east coast Algonquin, Caribbean islanders) went extinct.
Plagues didn't do that. Europeans changing their attitudes between the 16tu and 19tu century and no longer going for extermination did.

>>65017257
Guns, and also guns.

>>65017305
"White settlers" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that statement as it's pretty easy to rack up a high k/d ratio when you and a dozen other heavily armed guys are storming an isolated homestead at night that realistically would only have a single firearm.

>>65017305
>The Natives actually had a higher k:d ratio against white settlers
Are you retarded? Unless you count ambushing and murders civilians, the indians couldn't fight their way out of a wet, paper nutsack.
Granted, many native tribes always had a boner for committing genocide, and found more glory in killing civilians than enemy warriors. That's why they specifically went after enemy settlements when the men were out hunting, so they could kill as many non-combatants as possible, enslave the women and children, and only leave the old alive. That way, they could exterminate their enemies, while forcing the remaining men to take care of the old, sick and frail.
That's one of the many reasons the European settlers considered them savages.

>>65017781
>That's one of the many reasons the European settlers considered them savages.
But the settlers did literally the exact same thing.

>>65017862
But they weren't Christian and thus not people according to settlers. Stop trying to apply modern values you retard.

>>65017258
> Pox blankets
Never happened
>culling all their bison
Then maybe the injuns shouldn’t have stamped them off cliffs and only taken the best cuts of meat. The white man merely followed their example.

>>65017692
>but whitey stacked them up!
True, Squanto just ran the herds off a cliff. Archaeologists have to actually dig for those graveyards.

>>65017862
Fuck off, retard.

>>65017930
Also, stop samefagging.

>>65017258
>culling all their bison
>stereotypical indians lived on horses and in teepees and traded for wampum
You know each tribe had different languages and cultures, right?
>seminoles and hopies didn't even eat buffalo meat or see them
Doesn't mean thier savage, heathen brutalities weren't suppressed for all the right reasons.

>>65017373
>2011
Old news.

>>65017862
>settlers did literally the exact same thing.
The indians were brutalists to thier own people and other tribes BEFORE the Civil War between the states, dumbass.

>Indians

This is a left-field way of looking at it but I'd say that their war cries were the most feared simply because their opponents were usually poorly trained militia fed on stories of savagery. Especially during the War of 1812 you saw the impact of war cries causing a rout.

Although I'm unsure if irl officers thought of this in the right way and obviously once drilled regulars arrive its game over.

>Cowboys

Cannons. It seems that letting one off was used for its psychological impact in itself and I imagine it was pretty scary facing a weapon that would instantly cut a hole in whatever was in its path or spray across a wide beam of destruction.

>>65017735
My bother in Christ, we have first-hand accounts at the time of explorers finding settlements entirely deserted of people. We have archaeological evidence of entire cities that disappeared.

>>65018187
>once drilled regulars arrive
Gave the Union army something to do after 1865.

>>65018187
The most retarded shit would cause a rout back in those days. Bayonet charges almost never killed anyone in the 19th century, but would often make the enemy rout, which I find absolutely absurd. They certainly didn't have that problem when facing Africans, who were armed with far more melee weapons.

>>65018187
>explorers finding settlements entirely deserted of people
Shouldn't they have found settlements with piles upon piles of rotting corpses?

>>65018216
I haven't familiarized myself with the response to earlier diseases, but when cholera struck Indian communities, they would scatter. This was the biggest factor in allowing it to spread.

>>65018048
I only posted one other time in this thread. >>65017643 the dot Indians are a plague in and of themselves.

>>65018187
>This is a left-field way of looking at it but I'd say that their war cries were the most feared
Not entirely out there. There's been some debate about the rebel yell during the civil war being based on or inspired by Indian war cries.

>>65018187
>My bother in Christ, we have first-hand accounts at the time of explorers finding settlements entirely deserted of people. We have archaeological evidence of entire cities that disappeared.
Indeed we do. It's funny how this archaeological evidence invariably pre-dates Columbus, though.

>>65018093
>The indians were brutalists to thier own people and other tribes BEFORE the Civil War between the states, dumbass.
And?

>>65018249
Lewis and Clark also found deserted settlements and farms.

>>65018251
They started it. If they had been nicer and embraced Jesus Christ, things would have gone better for them. But they insisted on prancing around naked, covered in dirt and ash whining about ghosts and calling every bush and coyote thier grandfather, so God punished them for thier heathen ways. Just like all the heathens in south and central America.

>>65018237
So you weren't being sarcastic, then.

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>>65018254
>deserted settlements
This goes way back. The rise, fall and rise of new has all been seen before.

>>65018211
>The most retarded shit would cause a rout back in those days. Bayonet charges almost never killed anyone in the 19th century, but would often make the enemy rout, which I find absolutely absurd. They certainly didn't have that problem when facing Africans, who were armed with far more melee weapons.
Keep in mind that a bayonet charge happened after the target formation had already gone through cannonfire and at least one musket volley.
When the Africans charged, all that'd happened before was some yelling and posturing.
When the Africans charged you, there was a very good chance you'd just shoot them well before they got into melee range.
When someone bayonet charged your formation after it'd already been thinned by cannon-and musket fire, and you faced the prospect of engaging in melee against bladed weapons, without a shield or armour, that was a different matter.

>>65017735
>>65018187
Both of you are missing the obvious. The initial depopulation due to plagues would occur rapidly then level off once resistances and immunities kicked in before population growth kicked back in. There is going to be a major difference between a society that lost half its population to disease 50 years before frequent contact with settlers and one that lost half its population 200 years before frequent contact with settlers.

>>65018225
Desertion doesn't mean everyone's dead, it usually means enough people have died, or have left, that the community is no longer organizationally or economically viable.

>>65018266
>So you weren't being sarcastic, then.
Of course not. It's a basic thing in any real anthropology study to not apply modern or foreign concepts to any past or present cultures. Try paying attention to a non watered down anthropological study that doesn't cater to the concept of safe spaces.

As for the dot Indians, they're a plague like light bulb headed Somalian learning senters

>>65018259
>They started it.
More like it was standard practice on both sides. Certainly, when the California militias did it, they didn't do it to pastoralist plains tribes whose way of life was war, but to hunter-gatherers whose idea of organised violence didn't extend meaningfully past accidentally some cattle.
>If they had been nicer and embraced Jesus Christ
Being nice and Christian got their heads smashed in with a hammer, see Gnadenhutten.
The tribes and chiefdoms with the largest populations today are the ones who tried to kill Europeans the hardest and resisted Christianisation the longest.

>>65017735
> east coast Algonquin
>Extinct

You've triggered my autism. A lot of the Algonquian speaking peoples are around just in small numbers. Southern New England groups such as the Wompanoag Narragansett and Mohegan are still extant, although the last pure blooded generation is 100 years gone, many are still mestizos or at least castizos left. They are thoroughly westernized due to the effects of king Phillips war because all these groups were largely the descendants of the praying indian groups who had majority native rural townships. However there is an unbroken continuity of community, largely in rural New England, until recent times.

Meanwhile the northern new England Wabanaki groups are still functionally tribal and still have a few native speakers without needing a revival of their language. The abenaki are in Quebec but the rest just stick around. There's still miqmak, penobscott, malissett and passamaquoddy left. These groups are thoroughly native in character.

This goes without mentioning any of the groups further south or west who were displaced to reservations. Like there's still Delawares. And if we extend this to non Algonquian east coast groups you'll find that most musgogean groups still have some surviving groups within enclaves in the south as well as exile groups, albeit heavily cerolized, in Louisiana. Even the Ir*quoian peoples are still mostly around, in fact the Mohawk have been one of the largest ironworking industrial groups in the New York region since at least the 1920s and have funded full language education for their own people.

This is stretching the definition of eastern Algonquians, but I also want to point out there is a group of largely culturally conservative Potowatami in mexico. I just think that's neat.

(1/2)

>>65018349
This also goes without mentioning the high percentage of castizo rural new englanders. If you live outside of the wasteland of western mass and Connecticut, there are a lot of communities with a direct lineage to the original founding stock, and a lot of them are swarthy as a result of intermarriage with natives. We're talking 5-10% so not like native by any real standard, but a century ago this was closer to 25% for large rural areas. In fact this was the source of HnP Lovecraft's depiction of anywhere west or north of Boston as nonwhite.

Even today the still largely rural areas of New England and southern Quebec still has a surprisingly large native admixture. This is anecdotal from living in this area, but a lot of the people who aren't transplants had both verifiable claims of native grandparents, darker skin and more native looking features than the average Lumbee. Modern migration patterns and the settlement of a new stock white people has diluted this greatly, but a century ago this would have been far more pronounced.

(2/2)

>>65018349
>>65018362
This is the tism we need

>>65018289
I meant more in the sense that you believe it's alright for Christians to act like savages, but not non-Christians.

>>65018349
>Mexico
>potowatami

I've embarrassed myself but mixing up my grat lake groups. The group in Mexico is Kickapoo, and was merely closely allied to the Potowatami, who have enclaves around the Great plains. Pleas forgive me

>>65018379
>Pleas forgive me
None of that shit matters in the slightest regard.

>>65018369
>that you believe it's alright for Christians to act like savages, but not non-Christians.
Don't be a retarded nigger faggot and try the leftists bull shit of trying to shoe horn your word salads in to discredit historical fact to fit your cunt narrative. Christian theology in mose protestant and primary Catholic practices at the time was legit if they're not Christian they are to be damned anyway and no need to treat them as Christia. If they're not Christian they're not humans, so it was okay to take their land and use it for Church or Christian purposes.

Now if want to talk of modern day. The cunt jeets shouldn't go somewhere and refuse to assimilate, but instead shit everywhere they like. That demonstrates and embodies subhuman behavior.

>>65018388
It matters because I might spark curiosity in someone reading this thread. That's why I post in threads like this, and it matters to me that at least one other person might take value from what I do.

Besides people like you who do not value history and culture for it's own merit are fundamentally goycattle who enable the emulsification of the world into a bland globalist slurry.

>be pueblo
>get massacred and cannibalized by other puebloans

>>65018349
>Ir*quoian
I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here, and say that whatever native ancestry you may have is a lot more likely to have come from Algonquin speakers than anyone else.
You need to let it go. The Iroquois and various Algonquin tribes did end up allying against the Euros in 1763 and 1786.

>>65018419
>Besides people like you who do not value history and culture for it's own merit are fundamentally goycattle who enable the emulsification of the world into a bland globalist slurry.
Blah, blah, balh, you lost. Get over it and stay drunk in the casino the Mob built for you, Tonto.

>>65017305
> The Natives actually had a higher k:d ratio against white settlers
Kek sure thing fag. Care to back that up? Natives got stomped because guns beat bows and clubs.
>settlers
even if the above is true you’re saying war parties performed better than settlers. Meaning not soldiers. Meaning often families full of women and children. Families trying to SETTLE the land, not fight. Some brag you got there Tonto

>>65017391
Unpopular opinion but the trail of tears was the morally correct* option. If Jackson let the Indians stay in Florida they would have been slaughtered by settlers, not to mention the infighting and war amongst tribes. Moving them to the shittiest parts of Oklahoma let most of them leave.

I’ll caveat the * with I think they should have been killed rather than relocated. I know that’s not what most people would agree with, and it’s also biased by hindsight.

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>>65018421
There is a reason the Second Mesa and Acoma pueblos are the last of the last. They were most defensible. . Even the last cliff dwellings of Canyon de Chelly got wiped out like ever other. Wapatki ruins picrel.

>>65018450
>trail of tears
If I had a dollar for every trail and rabbit path called this...

>>65018389
I'm not a leftist, faggot. I'm literally just repeating your argument.
Even by the standards of the day, religion only had a small part to play. You could have the most Christian fundamentalist negro or injun, and most white Christians still wouldn't consider them equals. Christianity was more about conversion, and the direct enemies of Christianity would be groups like muslims, who were self-proclaimed, historical enemies of Christianity.
It was more of a matter of practicality and common sense. You had tribes of nomadic savages occupying huge swathes of land that could be useful to your people, your family and your burgeoning nation, so they had to be removed, and their almost comically brutal behavior justified their removal. Or you could just put it down to conquest.

>>65018465
>religion only had a small part to play
Your new age commie education is showing. Manifest destiny, the God given right for westward expansion to kill everything that got in the way sure didn't mean much. It's like saying wmds had absolutely no role in the second Gulf war and no impact on Iraqis.

>>65018450
When you look at Andrew Jackson's history with Floridian tribes, Trail of Tears makes a lot more sense.

>>65018423
I have no native blood actually, I just enjoy taking a strong nationalist stances about historical conflicts I have no stake in.

>>65018510
Go fuck yourself, you disingenuous brown commie faggot.

>>65018780
>I'm a a white knight poser
Typical.

Fuck wmds, fuck the buffalo and fuck reparations. You get me?

>>65019135
Yeah. Fuck injuns, fuck niggers and particularly fuck Scofield satanists.

>>65019323
Hey man, no need to be a racist.

>>65019530
No, there's a desperate need for that in this day and age, my fren.

>>65019587
Perhaps I should have said no need to be crude. We can all study genealogy without having to resort to imitating the very lowbrows worth derision.

>>65019598
Well, that's kinda true, I suppose, but we're on 4chan. You can use the term nigger without stooping to the level of the average /pol/tard commie faggot. It's like saying hello.
It's not like I went "cope and seethe nigger tranny kek".

>>65018780
this nigga understands the real point of racism: bants

>>65020659
Fuck you, nigger.

>>65017258
>>65017291
>>65017301
>>65017649
>>65017941
the pox blanket thing was fake. it wasn't the government it was one dude who hated injins so he gave them pox blankets and also it didn't actually work and didn't kill any of them

>>65020692
fuck you too, cracka

>>65020716
Go pick some cotton, you pickaninny.

>>65020725
why don't you go eat some mayo, mayo-monkey

>>65020736
What, are you a ricenigger?

>>65020743
I'm whatever kind of nigger you need me to be, baby
anything for the bants

>>65020772
Homo

>>65019587
>desperate need
>James Watson who won the 1962 Nobel Prize for co-discovering the DNA double helix, was stripped of all his honorary titles by Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory (CSHL) in January 2019 following racist comments
There will be consequences....

>>65017862
Can you show me where settlers purposely attacked only women (to rape and steal), children, and left the men alone?

>>65018187
>evidence of entire cities that disappeared.
I’m curious, where?

Cities implies permanent buildings and a large number of people.

>>65022471
Pretty much the entire Mississippi valley and much of the south west. Large scale constructions were plowed under and levelled by the early settlers. Some is still visible and we are finding evidence of the road networks with Lidar,.
The native populations at the time of Columbus's arrival were still recovering from plagues left by the vikings and the shifting climate. NA was basically a post apocalypse wasteland at the time of "discovery".

>>65022459
Um, there was that one time, I forget. But whites were horrible to the proud First Nations!

>>65022471
>Cities implies permanent buildings and a large number of people.
Mesa Verde, Batatikin, Wapatki, Tuzigoot, Chaco Canyon, Casa Grande, that's just the SW.
>>65018452
>>65018269

>>65018211
>Bayonet charges almost never killed anyone in the 19th century, but would often make the enemy rout, which I find absolutely absurd.
in Napoleonic combat, which is technically 19th century by a whisker, cannon inflicted the most casualties
I believe the same is true for the ACW

as other anon said, by the time an infantry battalion routed, it had already suffered maybe 10-15% casualties, meaning if they were drawn up 10 deep they'd have lost the entire front rank and half the second. after that they would take a few rounds of musketry, ranging from as little as 1 volley to dozens of (poorly aimed) volleys. and THEN the enemy came charging in with bayonets.

also, a "rout" isn't as popularly imagined simply a bunch of people running for the hills. rather it is defined as a commander's loss of control over his fleeing men. so in reality it was more of a disorganised fighting retreat, with groups of men fighting and running according to their own whims, rather than obeying the commander. they could and did still put up a stiff resistance.

>>65017258
>huwhite man kill all bison
kek. good one, runs-on-two-legs.

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Can one of you anons give me a summary of the torture techniques used by the Indians? I need to satisfy my morbid curiosity

>>65022500
The Mississippian civilisation only arose roughly contemporarily with the viking visits (all two of them, in Labrador, far away from any sedentary populations). There was no plague following the vikings.
A couple hundred years later, resource exhaustion causes a sharp population reduction through starvation. Preceding Columbus.
And then things literally don't change between de Soto and the Natchez wars.

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>>65022910
I occasionally enjoy torturing Chatgpt. it's amusing watching Ai tie itself into knots trying to excuse the Good Guys and trying to argue why they're not like the Bad Guys despite doing the exact same thing for the exact same reasons

https://files.catbox.moe/u9wfy7.pdf

>them injuns only attacked, raped, tortured and genocided other tribes because they were sad and wanted other tribes' territory, not because they were LE EBIN COLONISERS!!

also, TIL the new P.C. word du jour is "gendered violence", not "sexual violence", presumably because there are fifty genders and one of those feather Indians might've identified as trans or something
(might actually be relevant given there's a strong argument they might've been fucking furries)

also also, does /k/ block PDF files?

>>65022459
Most famously the 1860 Wiyot massacre.

>>65023006
"North American Indigenous Warfare and Ritual Violence"

someone here as this as a pdf link?

>>65023073
I just chatgpt'd it in answer to anon's query
>inb4 it's only ai
It's not a subject worth actual human effort

>>65017257
>What was the most feared weapon of the Indians
The Henry Golden Boy.

>>65022910
I know the mohawk would cut pouches into their captive's skin and then fill them with gun powder and then light the gun powder. Irrc there was a French account of their horror at the treatment of captives some time in the late 1600s. Also contained references to loading matchlocks with three or four balls and too much powder to be safe in order to break up charges by natives, which is neat.

>>65023006
I loathe the incessant white washing and denial that natives did anything bad ever. I live in a liberal area the and the lengths people go to revere the polemic narrative written centuries after the facts never cease to piss me off. However I think people like you who vilify natives and whitewash what the anglo conquests entailed are essentially indistinguishable.

Massacres of entire populations abduction of children and enslavement is recorded since the first years of the pilgrims by both the whites and their native enemies. This was just how the world worked back then and to claim that one side or the other has reasonability for starting it is stupid. Not just because that there was very rarely just two sides, and often natives and whites allied against other groups composed of natives and whites, but also because you're talking about the course of three centuries of history for the better part of a continents. For example what the Americans did in California was horrible, same for what the Comanches did to whites.

My point being that any narrative that exalts one racial group in some elaborate victim narrative is just fucking stupid and ignores everything that makes history interesting or useful. I hate it when the liberals do it, but I don't want the obverse either, especially because these days blacks and Indonesians are doing most of the online white nationalism and it's embarrassing to watch.

>>65017307
>Red or green, ese?
>Red like your commie blood, puta!

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>>65022500
>>65022990
Mississippians earthen mounds looked pretty cool. It's a shame so few survived

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>>65023310
Mississippians could have been the Maya/Aztecs/Incas of North America, if they didn't disappear so early

>>65023247
Read my post. I didn't justify what the Europeans did. At the same time however, they didn't torture the natives as a cultural practice.

>>65023313
If they didn't start so late, rather.
Neolithic societies need millenia to progress to state societies. Near east, mediterranean, China, India, Mesoamerica, Andes. It's always the same.
The Mississippians were the first truly neolithic society north of Mexico. They simply didn't have enough time.
Even the crunch they experienced a century or so before Columbus is normal. Every early neolithic society we've dug out experienced a collapse like that.

>>65020705
"Smallpox killed off the Indians" is a myth in itself. They weren't particularly vulnerable to it (comparatively, still were worse off against it than Europeans but were no worse off than Africans). What actually killed them off in vast, vast swathes (and admittedly looked a lot like smallpox to the pre-germ theory medical science of the time) was extreme, zero resistance cases of measles.

>>65023247
>especially because these days blacks and Indonesians are doing most of the online white nationalism
Do you think it's argies posting BROWN! on everything?

>>65023444
NTA but alot of Iranians larp as Europeans to post anti-US propaganda

>>65023006
>also also, does /k/ block PDF files?
/k/'s never had PDF posts enabled, that was just /tg/ and /sci/ but even they've lost them since the administration are fags who don't want to put the work in to patch the vulnerability that was used for that last large hack. The fags won't even try to fix things so /f/ can work again.

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>>65018246
>Not entirely out there. There's been some debate about the rebel yell during the civil war being based on or inspired by Indian war cries.
Makes sense as mimesis in warfare. Opposing sides learn from each other and adapt to the evolving nature of conflict, and begin to resemble each other. Pretty common in warfare like American commandos growing out their beards while the Taliban eventually adopted operator uniforms like American commandos.
https://youtu.be/XWQXomOG4Js
https://youtu.be/RRHUpE25Pv4

>>65017291
yeah the injins had a bunch of henrys and winchesters at little big horn

>>65017373
based, my state recently "recognized" blacks who claimed to be injuns as injuns

>>65018093
>Civil War between the states
I've heard it called the civil war and I've heard it been called the war between the states but never
>the civil war between the states

>>65017305
It didn't help that Native Culture was largely individualistic. Making it nearly impossible for the tribes to work together for long. Their individualism got so bad that their Warrior Societies (Which are mainly the young and older men of fighting age) would LEAVE their tribes behind to form their mini tribes (Bands) of just the men and their wives. Pretty much leaving the old, the young, and the single women to die.

It also didn't help that Natives fucking HATED other natives, which is why you get a lot of tribes siding with the Americans to finally wipe out a hated rival tribe. That's been murdering them for generations. I compare Native Americans to the Celts and other Northern European peoples that were like them. They couldn't get their shit together because there was just too much BAD BLOOD between all the Tribes/Clans/Bands/etc.

>>65023933
>the civil war between the northern and southern states of the united states of america
Better?

>>65024115
why not just call it
>the civil war
like a normal person?

>>65023530
right, thanks
shit, that sucks. it's been years since I regularly haunted /tg/

>>65023960
reading more of history I realise that what happened to the Feathers is basically what happened to every major culture that didn't form a nation

>>65024133
This is an international bbs. There are many ciil wars throughout the world. Stop being so Americentric. The world does not revolve arounf Kansas Oblast.

>>65024256
>didn't form a nation
They had many nations. They were Balkanized before Honkey Man ever showed up. We just had to pay heap big wampum to the enemy-of-our-enemy to kill they for us, too. They would steal, rape, kill, enslave and torture thier own neighbors on thier own. A few bottles of fire water was all it took to nudge them along as 5th columnists and promote thier own destruction.

>>65024260
the civil war is the only civil war anyone learns about. no one gives a shit about third world countries or their history, homo

>>65024274
Again, an Americentric stumbling block you need to get over. Nobody in Botswana or Serbia gives a shit about Daisy Duke's great great grand paw paw, when thier own father was slaughtered in front of them with a 9mm Makorov or machete for stealing a chicken or voting 4 times the "wrong way".

>>65024291
why would I care about what thirdies give a shit about? the courts are clear, the 2nd amendment only applies to US citizens and legal residents because ONLY Americans are people.

>>65024314
Oh, well, THAT. I see.

>>65024314
Is Serbia a 3rd World country now? My globe doesn't show that.

Were Cossacks like Russian cowboys?

>>65024322
it objectively is
>My globe doesn't show that.
sure it does. if it doesn't say "USA" it's a thirdy country

>>65024314
I mean....it depends which court ruling you want to listen to and how articulate and persuasive your lawyer is. And then you go through the whole "what is a firearm?", cap and ball rabbit hole and grandfathering exceptions through gifts rabbit hole. Law is never an open and shut case even after supreme court rulings. There's always nuance.

>>65024330
>obviously travels by bus
You need to fly more. Get a passport.

>>65024269
>We just had to pay heap big wampum to the enemy-of-our-enemy to kill they for us, too. They would steal, rape, kill, enslave and torture thier own neighbors on thier own. A few bottles of fire water was all it took to nudge them along as 5th columnists and promote thier own destruction.
Yes, I know, all the colonised nations around the world worked the same way, including mine

>They had many nations
the situation described in >>65023960 seems barely even as coherent as a city-state.

>>65024274
>no one gives a shit about third world countries or their history

To our detriment. We really should have a semester or two of North American History in HS to better understand our neighbors and what if anything they do better than us. I really hate that both Canada and Mexico have tons of noteworthy political parties that are commonly known while we have Donkeys and Elephants and that's it. Sometimes someone hears about a Porcupine but that's exceedingly rare.

>>65024322
>>65024291
>could pick any country in the world
>picks fucking batswana and serbia , the literal definition of third world global south countries
what ?

>>65024337
I have a car and why would I get a passport? why would I want to leave the US and go to the third world?
>>65024319
>>65024333
care to explain how the courts are wrong?

Goddamn rednecks itt


3rd world is a holdover from the cold war and its end, used to describe countries that are neither part of the Warsaw Pact or Nato. On this board it's common knowledge because we are about weapons and both Warsaw Pact and NATO armaments are discussed extensively. Hell Ukraine in particular has been one long parade of old WP stockpiles tankies and russiaboos have gotten giddy about seeing.

>>65024353
You can drive to Canada you know. Too far east and your little car will get wet.

>>65024367
He's an obvious troll shitter.

>>65024369
Canada is third world. why would I want to go there?
>>65024371
>>65024367
any country outside the US is third world. idk why you fags think calling serbia third world is trolling. literally every thinks serbia is a shithole. I dont think anyone has ever in the history of the world ever described Serbia as anything other than a third world shithole

>>65024346
why would I give a shit about third world history?

>>65024353
>care to explain how the courts are wrong?
I don't think you read my post. I'm telling you in matters regarding the law there is nuance but if I had to I guess I would argue that any ruling that tries to limit the term "man" or "people" and replace it with a government ordained "citizen" missed the point about how our rights are unalienable and endowed unto us by our creator and not by a government or the laws they pass. That was kind of the whole point. But bootlickers are going to bootlick and expecting people with power to not fuck over people without it is naive.

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>>65024346
>we should teach history and civics
It wasn't that long ago this was common curriculum.
Instead, let me interest you in an AR.

>>65023132
they probably had more 1866 winchesters than 1860 henrys just by virtue of the fact that there were like 170,000 1866s made (though a decent number were military contracts and wouldn't have been in the US) where as that homo Henry refused to up production and there were never more than 14,000 or so henry rifles ever made

>>65024380
the christian God endowed all people with the basic human right to keep and bear arms, but only Americans are people. there have been multiple court cases where the courts correctly have said the 2nd amendment does not apply to illegal aliens since they aren't people

>>65024341
The funny thing about Native hating other Natives is that they would always hate their neighbors, but would gladly trade with tribes out of their local area. Their proof of trade, local goods showing up in areas where they don't belong.

They also had "Nations" but with very loose borders. Most Tribes lived semi-nomadic lives, but would always stay in that general area, using up all the local resoursed then moving on to the next spot. The semi-nomadic lifestyle increases the likelihood of running into your neighbors and of conflicts occurring, because Tribes would return to a spot they once lived in only to find their neighbor there. Natives believed in Land ownership, but it was fluid. They fought to push another tribe out or to raid, then move to the next.

>>65024807
>they would always hate their neighbors, but would gladly trade with tribes out of their local area
that's pretty common. neighbours are direct competitors.
it's exactly this reason why EU has been sucking up to China for decades, but deathly afraid of Russia, and destroying the North Sea energy trade. they (wrongly) do not see China as a competitor or threat, on the (faulty) logic that "oh they're so far away"
whereas Russia is right on their doorstep and the countries which benefit from North Sea oil induce jealousy and competition for other local resources. why should Germany let the Brits price them out of cod and herring using North Sea oil that Germany cannot access? gotta trade with the Chinks to fuck the Brits.

>They also had "Nations" but with very loose borders
I was thinking more of cohesion. A nation is about a million or so dudes who all agree to stick together under one government. if what >>65023960 says is true, apparently the Natives didn't even have the cohesion to form united governments of that size.

I know all about natives, I saw Dances with Wolves. At least half the ideas itt are crap.

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>>65023310
>>65023313
Theres a theory that the southeast US natives learned that architecture and agriculture from Mayan traders who arrived by boat and land traders from Uto-Aztecan speaking regions. There is even residual though small amounts of MesoAmerican DNA found in some of their ancestry. Similarly they also think the natives on the western coast all the way from Alaska down to California and beyond even into Chile now have minor Japanese and Polynesian genetic admixture. Their wooden architecture and boating cultures are very similar.

>>65025087
>bme
>be beringia
>getting trespassed on by asiatics
>college whiteboy states everyone who entered the new world by the same route is related
Stunning.

>>65024832
That's also my post. Sorry, it looks like I wasn't clear enough about Native American "Nations" and while I'm at it, I will explain Native "Confederations" too. A Native American "Nation" is a group of tribes/bands/etc that share the same culture and language. For example, the Comanche Nation was a Confederation of tribes/bands/etc that did the same things and spoke the same language. The problem with the Comanche was that they hated EVERYONE. They drove other nations into the arms of the Spanish and the Americans for protection, and while they didn't outright slaughter themselves, they were always fighting amongst themselves. So, forming a real, solid nation would always be out of the question.

Like you never see North American Natives forming large armies of men. Meanwhile, in the fucking South and Central Americans, dudes are making actual nation-states with settled populations that trade with their neighbors and pay taxes to Larger Empires and seeing very large armies of men with standardized weapons and armor. Hell, if you drop the Nation of Zulu into North America, they would STEAMROLL all the other Nations because the Zulu were a nation that got their shit together.

>>65026097
I actually wonder if the barbarians during Ancient Rome had the same problems. Did the Gauls or Visigoths or anyone united with any of their near by tribes against the Romans

>>65029633
constantly
Rome got sacked by an alliance of Gaulish tribes
the Gauls in the Po valley formed an alliance against the Romans and even got help from other Gaulish tribes
the Gallic wars was a constant mess of shifting Gaulish alliances
the Germans formed a couple of them
the Visigoths and Goths where tribal alliances
the Hun where a grab bag of just about everyone east of the Rhine

>>65025087
Since I just saw this thread getting bumped I'm going to inflict more autism upon you

You're right in the mark with the transmission of agriculture from meso America. The pueblo peoples in particular have some cut and dry evidence of direction transmission of agriculture from the south. However the north Americans did also domesticate their own crops as well most of which got abandoned for the objectively superior meso American crops, but certain crops such as sunflowers were domesticated before meso American contact began. So it's less that meso Americans brought agriculture wholesale and closer to what we saw with the northern transmission of rice agriculture to the Chinese beginning with the han dynasty iirc. Where the original pattern of agriculture is replaced by a more efficient style from elsewhere.

The whole bit about Polynesian genetics and contact is contested at best. There's actually more evidence of South American admixture in easter island than the other way around. But this could also be the result of Peruvian slave traders and not pre colonial contact. This did cause sweet potatoes and a couple other crops to get transmitted pre Colombian contact.

I do want to point out that there's a bit of difference between the contact groups like the inuit and the salish had compared to what the Chumash had in southern cali. The former had Chinese coin chainmail, and gifting and trade routes that started at the north of the Manchurian world and ended in the Pacific Northwest. The more southern groups likely didn't even know about anything north of Oregon, let alone north asia, but did occasionally get asian goods as curiosities.

(1/2)

>>65029687
I don't buy the Polynesian boat thesis. There are substantial differences in how these boats we made and even when evidence of their use first appeared. By the time the Polynesian were contacting the Americas, Columbus was only three hundred years away from arriving, which was far after large canoes were being produced in the Americas. Meanwhile the types of boats the people who had contact over the berring straits used were not that similar to Polynesian or American watercraft besides being able to float.

Besides we only have evidence that Polynesians contacted groups in the incan sphere of influence. It strains credulity to say that Polynesians also showed up thousands of miles to the north in areas where the prevailing winds would have made cross Pacific transit far more difficult, taught people who to make boats, but did not leave any other specific material, linguistic or genetic mark.

Also completely off topic but this is probably the only chance I'll have to talk about the the southern Californians. They had remarkable population density and largely permanent settlements largely off the back of acorns as a staple food which created what has got to be my second favorite type of pee Colombian American bread, which is only topped by the paiute's cattail pollen bread. These guys had what was very close to a true state structure despite not really having any crops in how we would understand them. I think that's neat

>>65024346
Mexico was a one party state for 70 years

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>>65024346
>>65029829
Yeah it was a one-party state under the PRI until they cracked up in 2000. The PRI emerged from the Mexican revolution which was a remarkably bloody and also interesting period of history, then they turned into a grubby bureaucracy dedicated to staying in power above everything else. I took a Mexican history class in college and the prof explained their rule as rotating between more conservative and more liberal (or maybe populist) presidents. Now Mexico is run by leftists but (shockingly) they are pragmatic ones who are actually good at politics:
https://youtu.be/oshW9SIgevY

>>65024367
all countries that arent America are puny 3rd world shitholes in my eyes and frankly we'd all be happier if they all didnt exist

>>65030347
same

>>65029935
The modern Mexican left is "leftist" in that they have socialized healthcare/college and nationalize resources to fund infrastructure and civil needs but they only pay lip service when it comes to social policy. They are publically lefty fight the power pro-gay/woman/minority. But they still let all the chuddy shit go through.

They made a big deal about electing the first Mayan head of the judiciary and acted like he was going to be a freelove liberal, but he immediately legislated new oil refineries, bullet trains, car factories and more heavy industry. He also made it easier for Indios to get guns and authorized a major financial bump for military/security forces. They would be screeching that this was a far right dangerous chud if he weren't indigenous.

>>65017332
That's actually not in line with native records. We have record of an outbreak that wiped South American/Central Tribes (this is why the Spanish could roll into formerly massive mountain kingdoms that would have held pre wipe. It is believed that at some point a mass plague wiped out the tribes and at the very least cut all of the native tribes by 1/3. As later expansion and more tribal warfare ramped up this caused more inter tribal warfare and of course spread of disease. By the time the US Cav showed up on the scene a ton of tribes were a shadow or wiped out

>>65032620
the modern mexican government is leftist as fuck. they are super corrupt and run by the cartels and they ban guns. that's left wing

>>65025087
Polynesians brought yams out of SA and into the Pacific before any vikings made landfall. Boat people go hard

Ill be honest with you. When i shoot my single action revolvers, something on a genetic level wants my round to strike a brave in the chest mid gallop and spin him out of the saddle. Its a deep racial memory that fills me with immense joy. I wish we had never stopped fighting the heathens. Aint one casino-dwelling meth slut ever made my dick so hard as the thought of clearing a brave out of a ponies saddle with my six shooter.

>>65035052
People forget, but Americans have been fighting Natives FOR GENERATIONS. But nigga you're one crazy ass white cracker that needs to shut the hell up. You sound like the sort of fool who'll slaught a village of old and young, then RUN FROM a real Band of ANGRY as fuck Native Warriors.

>>65029633
They did at the start, but Rome was TOO GOOD at turning barbarians into Roman soldiers. After a while, the barbarian started fighting like a Roman.

>>65023033
It’s a shame California was so based and then dropped so far

>>65024367
>3rd world is a holdover from the cold war
No shit. It’s also been used for most of our lifetimes, if not all, for anyone here to mean “shitty country”. You don’t have to be pedantic.

>>65035200
>You sound like the sort of fool who'll slaught a village of old and young, then RUN FROM a real Band of ANGRY as fuck Native Warriors.
Nah I’d kill all of them

>>65035200
>>65035698
No rape? Disappointing.