Post gear, discuss gear.On the edge / Tactical Hood editionOld: >>65005166
Baller op pic./gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, we got hydrated. Infograph anon #2 went to a rave, and Ceradyne RETVRNED FROM THE DEAD and beat LTC for the GEN-IV ESAPI contract!>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.165CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80 <44mm BFD):Budget: Hesco T212 or L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):Budget: Used Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum)Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DNDElite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)
>>65023472Yeah that was definitely the best pic from the last thread, lol
Soft backers feel so archaic to me.
>>65023493We had the cloak. Now we have the hood. Tactical wizards with GEN-IV ESAPIs inbound.
>>65023498The military feels the same way. LSAPI GEN-I and apparently ESAPI / XSAPI GEN-IV (...and apparently ULWSAPI) are all standalone.Standalone plates are always more weight-efficient than their ICW soft backer counterparts. Where soft armor makes sense is when it covers more than the plates, and/or weight / thickness requirements are tight and the threat level is low.
>>65023509ICW are more weight efficient than standalones because they assume a soft armor vest. Using a plate shaped backer with an ICW plate in a pc is a workaround when you don't have a standalone. But most military armor will have some soft armor coverage because frag is the greatest killer and the army already knows what kind of coverage they need due to extensive wound studies going from WW2 to the present. Plate carriers are niche in a military context.
>>65023517>ICW are more weight efficient than standalones because they assume a soft armor vest.Well, no, because the soft armor of the vest isn't pressed to the strike face of the plate. It's effectively delaminated backer. VTP soft armor (off top of my head) has a 0.8lb/ft2 areal density, so a GEN-III ESAPI (ICW) is effectively 5.7lb and GEN-IV does the same thing at 5lb flat.You can then run a GEN-IV with soft armor to reach higher requirements.For an additional example, compare Hesco 4800LV to 4800, or 3800LV to 3800, or VS PBZ vs PBZSA. Standalone wins every time.>But most military armor will have some soft armor coverage because frag is the greatest killer and the army already knows what kind of coverage they need due to extensive wound studies going from WW2 to the present. Plate carriers are niche in a military context.The total transition towards standalone plates seems to indicate that they want to remain flexible and aren't fully buying into either PCs or full plate+soft getups.
>>65023440Some spitballs. Beez BALCS lineup, LBT 6094 (dated), ole faithful IOTV, Crye ($$) CAGE or AVS. Militech has a new IOTV but it's Chinese.
I want a battle belt but I don’t know which as I’ve never had one. I mainly just want to mount a handgun, handgun mags, and a dump pouch for my ar mags.
>>65023698Do you want a thicker / armored belt or just a typical belt?
We always break the chain on these fuckin things lol
>>65023708Armored chains when
>>65023698I've had a tacticon $30 belt for years now. I think their $40 now. I just run a safariland, two esstac pistol and one esstac rifle pouch and a tq sleeve on it. If you want to buy once cry once then just get a Kore belt. >>65023708I started using paracord and leave extra length for when I hit it.
>>65023721Tacticon went bust just recently.
I've seen people making OCP wizard hats. Is there someone out there making camouflage jester hats?
>>65023744Yeah but it's small time etsy stuff. Call some Aliex dudes.https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/643984071/jester-hat-camo-made-of-fleece-3-pointed
>>65023735Oh shit, I guess they lost that lawsuit of copyright infringement?
>>65023753Yeah and they also had some moneyflow issues apparently.RMA may or may not be next on the chopping block depending on how that Buffalo lawsuit goes. One of the co-defendant companies recently settled out.
>>65023761Eh doesn't surprise me. Overall they were drop shippers, but I was nice getting some cheap accessories without shilling out $50 for a pouch from other companies. >RMA As much as I hate them, I hope they don't lose. Those lawsuits are bullshit.
>>65023773I'm in the same boat. I would never buy from them, but they fill a certain niche in armor. If you're broke, and you need level 4 plates, then having an RMA plate in between you and whoever is shooting at you is better than nothing.
>>65023773>TacticonI have their battlebelt v2. Honestly not bad. Frankly the Aliexpress companies killed them. Idogear et al. They tried to branch into armor but their TASPIV plates failed to distinguish themselves from Hesco / Highcom so they flopped. Armor industry is oversaturated to hell. I'm surprised Ceradyne is back but the GEN-IV ESAPI is on paper fantastic so net win. I look forward to them stealing the SOCOM contracts back from LTC / Tencate.>RMAAgreed. If RMA is found liable because they sold a pair of GEN-1 1093s to a dumbfuck, then anyone can be found liable for selling to a dumbfuck. Nobody is gonna sell plates to civs.I think Apex sold him a pair of L210s a year before he got the 1093s. Or maybe it was Saber or Kota.
>>65023779Problem is that Militech, Longfri, Hesco, and Gilliam fill the same niche and they each have options that hand RMA counterparts their ass. RMA's niche is attracting people who know steel is shit but haven't done their homework on ceramics. Sorry to be frank but that's what it is. Bose of body armor.
>>65023797> Bose of body armor.What the fuck? I kinda like Bose. They're not bad. Most RMA plates are actually legitimately fucking lame or gimped in some way.
>>65023789>GEN-IV ESAPII haven't been keeping up. What are the specs on this?
>>65023837>I kinda like BoseNo highs no lows, must be Bose. I have a pair of Series III 201s driven by a Carver TFM-6CB. They need a subwoofer like RMA 1165s need a yoga mat for drop protection. Passable though with a sub. Hell of a lot better than white van Paramax speakers I got at a goodwill though. My DCMs floor all of them with a stronger amp.>Most RMA plates are actually legitimately fucking lame or gimped in some way.Like Bose, you can do better with other companies. You just need to do homework. RMA is better than Chinese white label but they're really not up there with more serious armor companies, hence the comparison. I think Ceradyne would be... Focal?
>>65023700I’m not really sure but I assume a regular belt.I see blue alpha gear shilled a lot and they have a regular and “light” series. So that’s another thing I’m trying to decide if I want a smaller 1.75” or so belt or one of the more typical 2+” inch ones.
>>65023789The V2 belt is what I have. It's not bad, the molle laser cut is ass. But I just wrap one wrap around it. The slip grip on the inner belt is nice. Can actually run it in gym shorts without it falling to my ankles.
>>65023852I was about to say BFG is fine, but holy fuck $300 for a battle belt is wild. I have an agilite, and I'd say it's great for what it is. The magnets on the back really do help with indexing.
>>65023845Info is limited but here's what it is so far:Same specs as GEN-III VTP but standalone. Brand new, NSN assigned February 2025. Made by Ceradyne (er ist wieder da...). 3x M2AP up to 2,880ft/s or 3x M995 up to 3,400ft/s. 3,150ft/s minimum first shot v50 versus M2AP as well, like REV. J. Standalone unlike all prior ESAPI versions. Max BFD 62mm like GEN-III VTP, five pounds flat for size medium.They're also working on a GEN-IV standalone XSAPI at 5.5lb, but that's still in the works. Expect to see that maybe 2028-2029. LSAPI is now GEN-I so the implication is a GEN-II is possibly down the pipe too. No news on ULWSAPI or VTP SAPI.
>>65023849Thing is that Bose is still sort of a mid-tier or low-tier "premium" brand. Their stuff is not cheap by any means. And if you don't listen to bass boosted music, it can be quite good. RMA is in the cheap/lazy bracket that is probably more similar to "Amazon Basics"
>>65023886Seems like a decent plate, but nothing crazy. Looks like weight reductions are mostly coming from reducing the BFD limit.
>>65023906In the grand scheme of things RMA is still mid-low "premium" - if we consider steel plates and Linry twenty dollar IVs the bottomest of the barrel and the best BAE / Tencate / Ceradyne the top shelf.The RMA 1192 and 1199 G2 were actually pretty expensive.>And if you don't listen to bass boosted music, it can be quite good.My 201s aren't bad, but they're better Bose. Like a pair of RMA 1092s. Still need a sub.>RMA is in the cheap/lazy bracket that is probably more similar to "Amazon Basics">Amazon BasicsHighcum 4SUS4 final offer, or $100 TitanXP Level IV.>>65023922IMO at about $950 a plate it's not true top shelf, but has the Hesco 4800 on the ropes. Military conditioning requirements, solid v50, multi hit, and M995 capabilities. The 4800's conditioned v50 is like 20ft/s above the v0 (bro), one hit of M2AP, and no M995 rating. GEN-IV is basically over a pound lighter than REV. J courtesy of more than a decade of PE improvements. It would be REV. M if they still used revisions. Huge upgrade from GEN-III, since that's ICW, same weight / same ballistics. If you want the BFD to go down, use soft armor or a trauma pad. Honestly it sounds like a solid generalist for CONUS.The GEN-IV XSAPI is the real prize, since that's basically a mass-produced SOCOM Standalone X-Threat plate from 2011 but with higher BFD and a little less weight, but we're talking about a plate that basically doesn't even exist yet.
>>65023708Tell me about it.
>tfw Ceradyne is gonna revenge cuck LTC out of all the big contracts just as LTC cucked them thirteen years ago.
>>65023855Oh yeah, the laser cut is just flat out shit. It's tighter than a nun's asshole on mine.>>65023878Man you ought to see what Crye wanted for the blast belt with the BZ API / M995 plates in it.
>>65023013Bear with me here as today marks my 4th day of being up past 3:30 and I had started a reply and then ended up losing it. More to come, but didn’t want to leave this hanging. The features are well worth it in my book, especially that stash pocket. The rei’s while can be had decently cheap with sale but are lacking in that feature department. Most of these fall to just uv protection AND quick dry. Adjustable hood would be nice too as the Rei’s seem to be shallow which I’m assuming is for use with headwear and/or preserving peripheral view. Really wanting to test more of these out plus maybe some light delving into pashmina/shemagh territory while I’m at it but that’s mainly due to circumstance/accommodating the shallow hoods. I need to step away from the dye considering how th last hydration pack turned out but part of me wonders if you could get similar uv abatement with cotton & dye. I know it’s typically not great as the fibers open up when wet, but we’d be venturing into wonder material territory, which is kind of what I was getting at with the nylon. Not that the synthetics are lacking but I’m curious. More testing required but so I’m a believer.
>>65024769I'm liking the CQR's a lot dunno if they'll dethrone the oversized columbia's I've been wearing forever, but i like the way they're cut, the extra pockets, and it's half the price.still not as cheap as chinesium shirts but those are a crapshoot if they're going to be sized correctly or comfortable.>some light delving into pashmina/shemagh territoryI've got a thin shemagh i got from the filipinos I work with. It's basically gauze it's so thin. Works pretty good even in tropical conditions. Not my favorite face cover but i can see why they're popular
>>65024769>>65025006Just get PFG and be done. He Pro Fishing Gear is made for people with too much money, standing in the sun for hrs. I have one and love it. I also have had knock offs for years prior that do XST for far less. And get a good hate, my Sun Blade is great and not too Jumanji.
>>65025006Definitely going to check both out. Already liking the looks of cqr and the color options are a lot better than rei. >shemaghI’m more of a buff fan myself but they’re pretty versatile. >>65025095Will also check these out. Before I left, I was also looking into rock climbing flavors of these shirts as the hoods are typically sized to go over headgear. Our war against the sun is eternal and Im just getting started.
>>65023454>come across a pair of ECWCS lv 5 (extreme cold weather clothing system) pants in multicam for a good price>buy them not really sure of what they are except comfy>look them up once I get home and shit a brickIs this one of those things that are massively overpriced online and your local surplus store sells for $10-20 or what? All of them online, even Rothco, are like $100-120.
>>65023708Use a 2x4 hanger>>65023698>>65023852If you starting off with a range belt you should really consider buying a two piece like the AWS SMU.Outfit it with 2x pistol mags, 1x rifle mag and a 4" fixed blade on left side. Multitool, pistol holster and a TQ holder on the right side.Tacos if you need to change platformsKywis if you dontIFAK standalone in a fannypack idealUpgrade to the emdom inner belt eventuallyBig padded warbelts good and all but id much rather have a two piece for training than a big padded warbelt and no other gear.>Dump pouchNo, dont do this.>>65023878>I have an agiliteGross dude >>65025571ECWCS is mass issue stuff, as such there is a lot of it. Comparing it to commercial equivalents of course they are going to cost more. Like all surplus, ECWCS cut also kinda inferior compared to other things but the value is there
>>65024134my pp after jorking it too hard aaaaaagh
>>65023708Surp fire hose
>>65025006I have some CQR pants. Two pairs are nice, but the last pair is marked as my size and yet it's mc hammer pants, made for conceal carrying a belt fed MG down each pant leg. Could fit six pounder cannons down there it's ridiculous.
>>65025711I don't like Kywis at all for various reasons and not sure why a professional larper like yourself would recommend them, HSGI is overpriced plastic. Just get normal elastic/lasercut pouches with optional retention cord....
>>65026698A2 makes eccentric recs. He is an eccentric man, with eccentric taste. He's got sugar in his wine. He feels up the kywi. He fights for the other duke. He has no trouble paying the PRICE of plastic. He lifts cannonballs. He feels the love that doth not speak its name. He shits condor.
On further review and upon fucking around with an equalizer on my Bose 201s, I've decided Hesco is the Bose of body armor. RMA is white van speakers made by Boss or Kirsch. Adept is Carver.
>>65026772Gilliam is the random Amazon brand that ships quality speakers for $15. Justasgood.jpg
>>65026781Yeah and they've randomly got a 15" powered subwoofer for $314 that genuinely puts out 1500W RMS.Ceradyne is Focal. BAE is B&W. LTC is Klipsch and Tencate is Dynaudio or something. Protech is DCM maybe?
>>65025571How much did you pay for them? $10-20, for real? They're literally $120 on eBay.> https://www.ebay.com/itm/257394677220
>>65026698>I don't like Kywis at all for various reasonsSuch as:>HSGINah dude ive been beating on the same ones for >10yr at this point. They pretty swell pouches if you need to shift between 5.56 and 7.62>ElasticTenspeeds and similar suck shit on belts for mags. Reindexing is nearly impossible without multiple hands. >vagueKinda vauge with this one but go off bud.They are kinda shitty as well, not as bad as a tenspeed.
So I've decided I'm not going to sweat trying to survive shtf/wrol/whatever fantasy scenario. Instead I'm gonna be dripped out. I'm poor so think of it like a disappointing rare encounter. I'm thinkingJinwudun skirtDrip capeWizard hatSamurai maskPlate carrierFuck boy leather glovesI have some UMPHE plates I can cut up and I was thinking about making shoulder and forearm armor out of them. What else?http://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809288944938.html
>>65026797You can't afford a squire to reindex your mags for you?>>65026795ebay is stoopid>>65026805gas mask.
>>65026817MSA millenium or GP5? Drone or stalker vibes?I also got a pasgt I could put demon horns and fake nods on.
>>650268595lb jinwudun Level III helmet with 3d printed or duct tape / paper cat ears. c50 gas mask underneath."form" and "function"
2026 /gq/ is the best it has ever been, and anybody who says otherwise is a glum faggot.
>>65027003Damn straight. We have autism, rizz, razz, pimp cloaks, wizard hats, armor, armor autism, autism of armor, 300 post debates on whether a plate is good. Speakers. Audiophile equipment. Bose. Not bose. DCM speakers. Carver amplifiers.and gnome cloaks. Cat ears. Squires. Fuckboy leather gloves. Plates. Better plates than reddit because reddit is retarded. It just keeps getting better and better.There's one good set of 2230s left on Gunbroker. Who's gonna be the guy to get the most slept on surp plate of 2026?
I should probably post the link for the 2230s. Note the dude has had them for a while so I'm positive the price is heavily negotiable.https://www.gunbroker.com/item/11595581677.5lb, 1.2" thick multi curve, dual III/IV rating. Built in trauma pad. Extremely overbuilt, advertised to stop M2AP at over 3,510ft/s first hit unconditioned versus Level IV req of only 2,910ft/s. REV. J onward ESAPIs only stop M2AP at 3,150ft/s on a v50 basis. Hesco 4403 has no headroom, is heavier, and loses to M2AP barely above IV spec.
>>650270032020 was great with the wuflu and blm riots.
>>65026145This or junk yard seatbelts.
>>65026713>He feels the love that doth not speak its name.Gay love?
>>65026805>Samurai mask>not a plague maskI am forgotten.
>>65027090Wher TF IS APLINE? 1985?
>>65026698>Just get normal elastic/lasercut pouches with optional retention cord....Such as?
>>65027209Surely he means chinko delux, at this point?
>>65027136Ah yes, those were wonderful times. But so are these.
>>650272702020-2021 was also when hypebeast gear was in its prime. 20 year old dudes using covidbux on Hesco 4800s and JPC 2.0s while the student loans collected interest.
>>65027270This is who is posting in /gq/ now.
>>65027354>Hesco 4800sYou mean 4400s and rma 1155s.
>>65027356>Good lookin' men in their prime now.Impressive.
>>65027370Do you still have that bow?
>>65025711>Dump pouch>No, dont do this.>has to paint his mags orange so he doesn't lose them in the woods>could just put them in a dump poucha2retard with another intellectual contribution
>>65027366No it was bimodal. You had 4400s and 1155s all over the place, but a considerable number of redditors were blasting cash on 4800s thinking they were standalone VTP ESAPI or some bullshit when they're really borderline IV.If you want proof, look how many people then were repping the LTC 28595 as this turbo badass sub-5lb M993 stopper. Reality is that it stops B-32 API, P80, M61, M80A1, but not even M2AP. Or people blindly believing International Police Supply when they said those Ceradyne Defender 275s were Level IV. Nope. B-32 API.People were recklessly throwing cash at expensive ass plates. Covidbux!
If I have a MOLLE mag pouch would there be any problem if I bought a MOLLE placard (cheap) to put it on rather than a new triple stacker placard (expensive)?For a JPC 2.0
>>65027375Moved on to advanced dual wielding tomahawk melee fighting and a soul patch. I follow The Will of the Way.
>>65023532>>65023517>>65023498ICW has nothing to do with effecriveness or weight on personnel, but rather logistics, life, and cost.ICW plates are "supposedly" the consumable componenr of the armor system, while the kevlar backer and vest itself can be reused "supposedly" in the event of a strike.ICW plates are also, "coincidentally" cheaper and lighter to purchase and ship because troops bring the kevlar with them, plus when plates go bad, you're not tossing a perfectly good kevlar backing into the garbage bin. Is the weight savings of a single pound worth it? No, but the bean counter who chose this shit like 30 years ago, thought so.Military has soft in the sides, along with all the upgrade bullshit because of frag, thats it.The transition to stand alone plates is one of economics, IE nobody wants to make a custom sku of plates just for the Military and nobody else. Airborne, SOF, Marines, and units with the budget can and do get stand alone plates already and have for a long ass time. So they funny enough end up being cheaper. Right now, theres a slow transition to SA plates, but ICWs have a ridiculous amount of life left in em and the IOTV, MSV, SPC, and whatever the fuck the Air Force uses, all draw with kevlar backing. And if need be, quarters can draw individual backers as well.So unless we go hot hot in Iran, fingers crossed, its ICWs until they expire.
Thoughts on the TS Warrior Placard? Its the cheapest open top 6 mag placard Ive found so far, and comes with an attached IFAK and pistol mag pouches.
>>65027653>while the kevlar backer and vest itself can be reused "supposedly" in the event of a strike.That's not true. It is permitted and expected for ICW plates to break up threats and let fragments pass through into the soft armor. As long as the remainder of the projectile is stopped in the soft armor within BFD limits, that's a good stop. The soft armor is compromised by this and needs to be replaced ASAP. This is why you MUST use mfg-prescribed soft armor when using ICW plates. Not any soft will do, even if it's IIIA.>ICW plates are also, "coincidentally" cheaper and lighter to purchase and shipBecause they're literally standalone plates but with reduced PE or aramid backers, lol.>Is the weight savings of a single pound worth it?ICW + soft armor will always run a higher areal density than standalone against the same rifle threats. If you're expecting frag and don't need extra headroom then ICW + soft does save weight versus standalone + soft.>nobody wants to make a custom sku of plates just for the Military and nobody elseCeradyne, LTC, BAE, and Integris are making bank on custom skus for the military. They're the largest consumer of body armor in the US by a mile. Of course they get their own models.The armor industry is military first, police second. Civilians a VERY distant third. Money talks.>Airborne, SOF, Marines, and units with the budget can and do get stand alone plates already and have for a long ass timeIndeed. SOCOM has been using standalone plates since Protech 4C-9812s in 1999. All current SOCOM plates except PXULV are SA. Army is ICW until GEN-IV VTP and VTP LSAPI plates are up. Marines are still using many ICW plates as well. All ESAPI / ECSAPI / XSAPI variants prior to GEN-IV VTP are technically ICW.>Right now, theres a slow transition to SA platesPretty quick actually. Over 100,000 LSAPIs are expected by 2027-2028, with GEN-IV ESAPI on the way.>until they expire.They don't really expire absent delam.
>>65027440>redditorsYeah you're not there anymore. Here it was 4400s and 1155s, and if you're poor like me it was 4401s.
>>65028561You're forgetting the anons who ran L210s backed by IIIA to try and get a quasi-III+ on the cheap. /gq/ was more financially responsible and it did show. Battle steel was also common but misguided.Still quite bimodal. There were two guys back in the day with Ceradyne 96034s. Super high end. Some with Defender 275s. Ash had a pair of 28595s but sold em when he found out they weren't IV. /gq/ and /bag/ IIRC never liked the Hesco 4800 even though reddit viewed it as the pinnacle of plates, which it isn't.>Yeah you're not there anymoreI lurked but am not a redditor. Never was.
>>65028561I haven't been here in like 6 years. The fuck happened to the 4400s?
>>65027378>Orange mags catch another midwitTraining to stow empties on body is fucking retarded, as such the mags are orange so they aren't lost when training.Im glad you are setting patterns on the flat range that will cause you to get smoked.
>>65029060>Be gay retard tripnigger >Talk about getting kilt in da streetz cause flat range training >Brings a serbu shorty to breach>Gets shot through the thin ass walls and doorAt least you'll make a fun loot drop.
>>65029077>Gets shot through the thin ass walls and doorWhats stopping this from happening to you?
>>65025711Unfortunately they're missing the tag but the rest of the pile was straight out of someone's dufflebag of old issued clothes so I doubt they're Rothco. They look brand new with the suspenders which do have a tag w/ NSN.>>65026795No shit I picked them out of a pile for $5. If I could even get $50 out of them I'd rather have the cash ATM. I tend to wear cheap outer shells with decent pants in the winter anyways.
>>65029060>Training to stow empties on body is fucking retardedGBRS take, disregarded
>>65029108GBRS justification is that you are going to be too loud when creeping through bin ladens compound and should cut your pants apart to be more high speedWhich is kinda dumb all things considered. The point about 9 bangers is real though I seen it.Training to store empties is some boot shit because you have to turn back in 7 magazines you drew. If im shooting a rifle to bolt lock, the magazine is empty and serves no function. If im shooting part of a magazine and then hitting a tac reload to top up the rifle im going to reindex the partial on body where its useful. Having a huge sack of empty, partial magazines, rocks I put in there while you werent looking, snack wrappers and other shit that isnt immediately useful ammo to fish around in is flat range training scar.>But A2 you will run out of magazines during the end of the worldYou're either winning the engagement and you have all the time in the world to police mags/exploit enemy equipment or having 3 empty magazines in a sack isnt going to bring you back from the grave. But also check it man, you can actually own more than 5 magazines. You probably should own like 100+ AR15 magazines to dodge bans for your lifetime and your big can of "epic boogalooo ammo" should just be a can of loaded mags anyway dude.>But what if I carry my spare ammo on clips/looseRetarded, 30 rounds on clips weighs almost exactly the same as a loaded gi mag. Loose ammo insane tier.Nobody is going to hover the chopper above a roof and kick off a speedball of 5.56 on clips for you dawg.
>>65029139>. If im shooting a rifle to bolt lock, the magazine is empty and serves no function.Should also be noted: if youre shooting mag after mag to bolt lock you probably shouldnt be fiddlefucking the magazines into a pouch and focus on reloading the rifle as fast as humanly possible.
>>65029055Bad batches of ceramic and a lack of headroom caused the single curve 4400, the 4600s, the 3610s, and 3410s to fail NIJ FIT and get suspended, then permanently removed from the NIJ CPL.Huge recalls, plates got replaced by better models. The multi-curve 4400MC is a different model and was not affected by the suspension. All 4400 series plates and 4401 were discontinued for the new 4403MC / 4403SC. 4600 by 4601, 3410 by 3411, 3610 by 3611 and now 3612.
>itt a2 challenges hypotheticals with outlandish hypotheticalsYeah.
>>65029150Damn I guess I'll give them a call. Thanks anon. I was in /gq/ in the olden days. It's hilarious to see how much stuff was actually bullshit, and what has stood the test of time. It'll also be funny to see what products end up in the same boat as these hescos.
>>65029284Orange mags never cease to gather (you)s
>>65029290>Damn I guess I'll give them a call.You're about five years late on that chief. Also, just an FYI, the L210 allegedly shared a strike face with the 4400 but just had a LOT less backer, so there's a concern that there are also bad unrecalled L210s out there. Would explain why people are offloading them on ebay for $250-300/set.>Thanks anon. I was in /gq/ in the olden days.Well met, as was I. I also lurked the /bag/ discord at the time and picked up a bad case of the armor autism there.>It's hilarious to see how much stuff was actually bullshit, and what has stood the test of time.RMA 1155s and Battle Steels turned out to be pretty shit, sadly. People way overpaid for Hesco 4800s and LTC 28595s. I still regret not getting that pair of 4800LVs on ebay for $300. People were buying high end shit they couldn't afford and it bit them.>It'll also be funny to see what products end up in the same boat as these hescos.Are you familiar with the Highcom 4SAS4, RMA 1155 NIJ revocation, and LTC 26605 situations since you were here? I think you may have some catching up to do if not.
>>65029316It's not about the mags at this point, now is it?
>>65029139>Nobody is going to hover the chopper above a roof and kick off a speedball of 5.56 on clips for you dawg.I'm gonna jerk off 40 round pmags with clips like you wouldn't believe a2kun
>>65029319Negative, I stopped coming here after all the plebbitors/feds came here during the summer of love/ukraine invasion. /k/ is a shell of its oldself, but better than reddit. I don't remember the year, but I want to say gq started in 2015/16. I was here from new town - floyd riots. I remember some tripfag named Hudson(I think?) who was on drugs in the west Texas desert with Gucci gear and WV oak leaf b guy. Most my Gear is out of date, so I'm lurking to see if there's anything worth having. Yall zoomies missed the boat on a lot of good cheap shit but it's good to see comms have made a progression. I don't have high quality kit, and I don't care to really. I've had a flyye jpc clone since 2010 that I've done a half a dozen classes/camping/airsofting/larping/shooting in that's still fine. I don't wear it but like 4 times a year now in to train, but it's fine. The velcro wore out, so I just bought a tube system and slapped it on there. They were 1000 denier Cordura and 80$ at the time. Under nods they do okay. Im debatting on getting a 1.0 jpc because im not really sold on the overpriced clip on systems the 2.0 has to offer. Also to see if that dude still dumpster dives in the Brooklyn shipping yards for crye stuff to sell for cheap on ebay. Enjoy larping with the boys while it last, life comes at yah quick.
>>65029350Never wasWas always about baiting idiots into outing themselves. SCAR, Orange mags, dump pouch hate, etc always excellent at doing so.>>65029366Keep that to yourself
>>65029405Alright, so you missed a shitload of new armor stuff then. Nothing too major. I'd buy those 2230s to replace your 4400s and be done with it.
>>65029424Cheers anon
>>65029455No prob. Morale of the story is that there is no armor company above reproach and blind deference to vendors and manufacturers will leave you holding the bag on shitty armor. There is no free lunch, but a lot of "deals" that are really too good to be true.
>ppe>ill just save money here
>>65029649>highcom 4sas4 for $86 a plate and botach battle steel 5.5lb sorta-kinda IV with tricks for $100 a plate have entered and left the chatRule of thumb. A good pair of new plates starts at about $400. Hesco T212 or 4403. Anything less than $400 and things start coming with a catch or you have to play some kind of game.
>>65029139>wall of copenot reading any of that
>>65029765Okay, im going to put a rock in your dump pouch when I see it
>>65029765He's gonna put his cock in your "dump pouch", be careful, Snake.>>65029410A2Grape...
>>65029612Hey, me again. I'm retarded. They're 4401's. I remember why I got them, they were deep discounted on a Black Friday sale. They came with a free slickster. I'm assuming the 4401's are also cooked correct? Any details on that specific model?
>>65025711We get it, you mooch off your friends and/or have insane amounts of credit card debt
Looking for special threat plates. Probably Hesco M210. Not a doorkicker, just looking for SHTF and HD protection.What size do I get? Would L SAPI cover me or should I go XL? I think M coverage would be inadequate.>nip to nip10.5">top of sternum to belly button16"
>>65029915Its called a job and doing this for a long time tbqh>mooch off your friendsNew life lore unlocked, thanks anon havent heard this one yet>>65029916M plate
>>65029924>M plateNipples protruding. Wouldn't that be bad for protecting vitals?
>>65029937What's your height?
>>65029937maybe you just need a bra to reign them in
>>650300356'0" 46" chest.>>65030047lmao
>>65030051Pic rel suggests you're good for a SAPI L. It's your call. Ergonomics and weight savings versus coverage.>>65030047DMGear can help with that!>>650299144401s are fine. They're a separate model from the 4400 single curves, were NIJ certified after the 4400 debacle, and never failed a FIT. The 4401s are basically like a single-curve, slightly worse Hesco 4403. Workable. headroom going off the design isn't great, but they make IV spec.For what it's worth, the Hesco 4403 fails to first-hit M2AP just 20-30ft/s above NIJ IV spec when conditioned, but those Protech 2230s are good for first-hit M2AP at over 3,510ft/s fresh. The 2230s also have double the multi-hit, at 6x 7.62x51mm M80 versus 3x, plus a built in trauma pad. They're policesurp plates that were $1,000/set in 2013-2015 and use unequally better materials versus the cheapo Hesco 4400s.>>65029916M210 is solid if you're willing to concede .308 under 44mm BFD capability. Thin, multi-curve, less than overt. VZ-PBZSA fucks em up but the PBZSA is a far more expensive plate. Any chance you could look around for some surp LTC 28780s as a middle ground, perhaps?
>>65029750And I want a motorcycle helmet that starts at $400.
>>65030047
>>65030161>Well it's the helmet or the plates, time to make the call. How about this. Helmet is heads. Plates are tails. Flip a coin and whichever one lands is the one you buy now and you buy the other one later.I'd prioritize getting the helmet. Most people frankly never use their plates for their intended purpose.
>>65030123Thank you keeper of thread lore. May your mayo and ammo cans be full.
>>65030051> 6'0" 46" chest.I'd unironically suggest you go on a diet. A fatty with weapons and armor is a mobile lootbox.
>>65027164I'm not jewish
>>65030191Glad to help. I'm stealing that meme as payment.>>65030167Cloak and wizard hat status?
Legit or na? https://ebay.us/m/D26HCx
>>65030331Yeah I'm 200 lbs, I need to cut some weight. Losing weight however is not going to reduce my frame size. Gonna go with large SAPIs.
>>65030659>Losing weight however is not going to reduce my frame sizeYou might be surprised.
>>65030668Think so? My nipple to nipple measurement and my sternum to belly button measurements are the same as when I was more lean 10 years ago. I don't think my vital internal organs haven't shifted, just gained fat around my gut. But yeah anyway maybe I'll drop 20 lbs before I commit to armor.
>>65030686>Think so?I can only say from my own experience so it may not apply wholly to you. I dropped 60 lbs and have had a bad time with just about all of my clothes. Got lucky with most of my equipment, though I have an expensive pair of cryes that have to be tied real tight now.
>>65029139you're not delta you fat retard loldj shipley is retarded
>>65030659>Yeah I'm 200 lbsThe average (fat/old) American male chest circumference is 41.5". A 46" chest is more common on somebody who is 250+ pounds. If you're 200 pounds at 6' with a legit 46" chest, you're probably a pretty experienced bodybuilder, I guess?
>>65030686Height wise you're still in range for SAPI L. 10.25x13.25 for SAPI L versus 9.5x12.5 for SAPI M. It's not a huge difference but you do eat about a 14% weight increase going from M to L. Your M210s would be 5.8lb SAPI L, which is comparable to many Level IVs' SAPI M. Presents a new inquiry. More protection or more coverage?I agree with the other anons on waiting however and losing some weight. If you slim down enough to where an L is now unergonomic then you're not going to get what you paid for the M210s. Used plates do not hold value unless they're special, ex $3,500 LTC 28570s or $5,000 Ceradyne SAECs.
>>65030721Just measured I was off by 4”. I’m 42”. Still fat I know but 46” is obese territory lol
>>65030778I’ll shed some lbs first. I think I’d rather have greater coverage and a lightweight set of plates would allow me to carry more ammunition and water. 5.56, 7.62x39 and handgun rounds are most likely the primary threat I would face.
>>65030850Then you're gray area between M and L. Ergonomics versus coverage. Some people cut fake plates out of cardboard and use them as ergonomics simulators for shouldering a gun and what not. Food for thought.
>>65030882>5.56, 7.62x39 and handgun roundsYeah then the M210 is basically perfect, unless you can swing U210 which sheds a pound, or VS PBZSA which is basically the best civ-accessible "M855A1 + M80 + BZ API" plate on the market, surpassed only by the GEN-6 LTC TSA (which is unobtanium for now) and some esoteric Ceradynes.
>>65030905> Some people cut fake plates out of cardboard and use them as ergonomics simulatorsoh hey that's mestrap a big piece of heavy metal to them and you can simulate how the weight feels too, made me adjust my straps somewhat
>>65030919>*TSA/LTO, forgot the "LTO" part, to avoid confusion with the overt B32 API sister plate.
>>65030919I’ll probably go with the M210s. My budget is under $1k. I’ll try cutting out some cardboard too.
>>65030922lol, I really had to spend some time messing with straps once I got the 7.5lb Protech 2230s in. Had to make adjustments for the weight and them being 1.2" thick.Probably worth recalling some people "got by" back in the day with AT Armor FFS4s, which were 9.5lb SAPI M. Robust entry level multi-hit IV Tencate. Weight is absolutely horrible but sometimes heavy as shit armor has a niche. Definitely not general purpose however.
>>65030686>My nipple to nipple measurementGo on...
>>65030940Very good. You'd have to double that and then some for the PBZSAs. Outstanding plates but the price is brutal.Don't let this distract you from the fact Baltimore SWAT just switched to using them recently, with 6x6 matching sides and Velsys carriers, and on top of that, they just went into Harry's and bought three cases of .308 Swiss P AP, with tungsten cores, and a wall-penetrating radar so they can wallbang bitches.
>>65030980>PBZSAsIs that the same thing as API-BZ? Are there any other cheaper equivalents or is it the latest hotness?Maybe I'll save up some more scratch while I'm losing weight, lol
>>65029139>If im shooting part of a magazine and then hitting a tac reload to top up the rifle im going to reindex the partial on body where its useful.Where nigga? You use shitty flapped mag pouches which barely fit one mag.>If im shooting a rifle to bolt lock, the magazine is empty and serves no function.You put more bullets in it later on dumbass. If you throw all your mags on the floor and then go somewhere else and get more ammo, which comes loose in plastic packets, then you have nothing to put your ammo in.
>>65031126There are two. The PBZ, which is ICW IIIA, and then the PBZSA which is standalone and basically superior in every way.The closest performance equivalent is the LTC 28791, which is jacked up price wise. Apex wants $4,500 for a set which is absurd.Hesco U210 can't handle M80 within 44mm BFD limit (runs to about 48-50mm) but otherwise is comparable to the PBZSA. U211 is a little heavier but adds another round of BZ API at 2" min spacing. Tencate CR-6450SA is basically weaker PBZSA.Hesco SC3812 has better .308 performance, but is thicker and loses BZ API. Only 3.8lb SAPI M however, but it's over $3k a set and credential blocked.
>>65031126And yeah, the API BZ listed on velsys' site is the PBZSA. There's one or two dealers with it in stock.Also of note, if you don't mind a thicker plate, is the VelSys TSA, the PBZSA's bigger brother. 4.39lb Swimmer M or 4.59lb SAPI M. 0.85" or whereabouts thick. Adds B-32 API protection so you also have M61 / M80A1 covered. Mostly identical spec wise to the LTC 28570. Must be bought second hand. Street rate is $2.5-3.5k / set.
>>65030352>wizard hat status?Not leaving my comfort zone.
>>65029139>win the engagement>go back and collect mags>mix up empties and loaded mags>another firefight>accidentally reload empty mag>dieuse a dump pouch you fucking retard
another set of 28595s just hit tacswap
>>65030709>dj shipley is retardedSpitting facts>>65031134>Where nigga?Think long and hard about this one anon. How would I get 6 magazines to the fight if I didnt have 6 pouches. if I remove one mag from a pouch, holy shit an open pouch I could place a magazine in. Shocking I know.>Go somewhere else to get more ammoEarth to anon, nobody is bringing you ammo.The contents of your ammo stash at the start is exactly what you will start with and probably all you will have. >>65031795>another firefight>accidentally reload empty mag>dieYeah thankfully this cant happen with a dump pouch. It would be really silly if this was the whole point of a dump pouch and you posted this.
>>65025711>dump pouch, no don’t do thisI think it makes sense to train for very fast drop-the-mags-on-ground type reloads as well as tactical dump pouch reloads.I reckon in a chaotic firefight, the fast reload should be your go-to, but if things aren’t absolutely crazy and you have the time and safety to do the tactical reload, it makes sense to have trained that movement and perform it.
I need some MOLLE mag pouches that are large enough to easily hold double stack .45 mags like for the USP.Anyone know of any?
>>65032916>A moderate opinion that depends on nuances of situationno no no! You are supposed to say some shit about "muh dumpouch muddafukkaaaa" Half the people ITT fail to grasp the difference between a speed reload and a tac reload, despite us being like almost 20 years past the magpul DVDs.>>65032940Flapped or open top?Rigid or soft pouches?TACO pouches hold mk23 mags just fine
my dump pouch is for looting full mags and wallets from my victims or tasty berries and mushrooms from the forest
>>65033046Thats called a SSE pouchWay different and more based
>>65032955>TACOdo you recommend the standard or gen 2?I have no preference regarding soft/rigid, but prefer none flapped.I just want to be able to fit and extract a USP45 mag from it without difficulty.
>>65033054Gen 2 probably an improvement, ive only ever used gen 1Rigid will be easier to reindex than a soft nylon so go there unless you have a size/weight limitationIf you really want to minmax your tacos you can put hugo industries feedlips on them
>>65027593For just mags yeah, even most airsoft placards would hold up decent.
How many tourniquets do you carry? I have 3 on my PC and 3 on my belt kit. I keep two immediately reachable by either hand and one in/on IFAK on each line of gear. Should I get tested for autism?
>>65032610That's actually not a bad price. The days of people selling these for $400 because they don't know what they do are over.They more-or-less sidegrade the Hesco 4800. Lighter, but concede M2AP completely. Highest they go is 7.62x54R B-32 API, but multi hit against weaker threats per Buffman is very respectable. Probably better drop pro than the 4800, since they're modern military plates.The LTC 28570 does the same thing this plate does but with a ~0.4lb weight reduction. GEN-VI Tac. Standalone is supposedly 4lb or whereabouts.
>>65033163>Should I get tested for autism?Yes.
>>65033414Thankfully my kids don’t seem to have it. I’m undiagnosed but I’m pretty sure, likely due to circumcision and vaccination
