Would you have scuttled her like Langsdorff or gone out like a hero?
>>65038754>Be Langsdorff >To hero or an hero?Kek
>>65038766I don't think he killed himself desu
>>65038754I would save her, along with every other warship from that era, and give them all smooches
>>65038772Then who killed him? Mossad?
>>65038754Why didn't they build three more of these rather than the later Admiral Hippers? They were allowed 6 under Versailles anyway.
>>65038804Hitler
>>65038754There's nothing heroic about getting your men needlessly killed
>>65038846Spee is hip, but it ain't Hipper
Just conquer U R gay.
>>65038846Isn't the HIpper better than Graf Spee?Graf Spee was just a cope version of Scharnhorst
>>65038846Because perfidious Albion tricked Hitler into signing a treaty that let them copy the Royal Navy to 35% and the Royal Navy had nothing comparable to the Deutschland class.
Diesel engines offered the range suitable for long-term operations, but maintenance during operations was problematic.Boilers, while less thermally efficient, did not require fuel viscosity adjustment for injection combustion like diesel engines.
>>65038754If they had made a run for it they would have lived to fight another day, the British forces he thought were waiting for him were coming but a quick bluff made them appear much closer.Letting his crew go home was the gentelmanly thing to do.
>>65038883This.
>>65038883This. He honestly made the best choice in a bad situation. Hipper was not in the best state for another fight and even if she did somehow breakout she'd be guaranteed to lose the very next engagement with nowhere to run to.
Thread theme:https://youtu.be/6Y35QbReGv8
>>65039069Please explain the difference between "diesel engines" and fuel-oil fired "boilers". I'll wait.
>>65038754Bismarck solution: go out like a hero and then anhero>>65038766excellent
>>65038754id have sold her to the highest bidder and retired to a small argentinian hacienda
>>65039343I don't get why people say Biscuit wasn't scuttled when she was literally titled "KMS"
>>65039406because Bismarck "scuttling" is like saying the enemy mag dumped you and you're about to die but since the last thing you did was to stab yourself with your combat knife the enemy didn't kill you
>>65039406kek
>>65039368I bet spares availability would have put off bidders.
>>65039406
>>65039484theres always a market for scrap metal
>>65038940Hippers had delicate engines.
>>65038846by>theseI assume you meant Deutschland-class panzerschiffs?the answer is because they're cope heavy cruiserson a 10 kton budget given the best interwar naval tech, the best heavy cruiser you can get is something like the County class (RN) or Northampton class (USN), both quad or triple turret 8" designs. the Countys sacrificed armour for habitability and stability, on the assumption that armour plate could be upgraded (HMS London) but not the former; the Northamptons bit the bullet and decided a little splinter protection was better than nothing, at some risk of stability(oh and fuck the crew lol)the Deutschlands are older tech however, because the KM for obvious reasons couldn't keep up with RN and USN naval tech. they took 15 ktons to add proper heavy cruiser armour and a bit more range, and mounted much larger 11" guns but only six of them in two turrets. and they still had essentially light cruiser armour, slightly thicker than USN treaty CA armour but not much better.(Exeter hit Graf Spee only three times but already scored one main belt penetration, the key one which destroyed Spee's oil purification plant. admittedly a small sample size but decisive enough in the event. not bad considering Exeter was an economy convoy escort with CL-tier armour, massing only 8.5 ktons in contrast to the other treaty CAs discussed above)the Hippers are next-generation proper heavy cruisers that come up to the standards of the Countys and Northamptons. even then they still massed 17 ktons, way above the treaty limit. that additional mass, plus downgrading to 8" guns, bought them a more numerous main battery further spread out (eight guns in four turrets vs six guns in two) and a much bigger secondary and AA battery. the latter however accounts for much of the Hippers' inefficiency compared to RN and USN peers, as the Hippers had to rely on the old triple battery instead of DP guns.and it STILL mounted a CL armour scheme!
>>65043138>KMReichsmarine. Kriegsmarine name was only applied in 1935 during the Nazi dictatorship whereas the Deutschland class was designed and built in the Weimar Republic and was a contentious issue for the 1928 election.
>>65043168>ReichsmarineI don't give a damn you pedantic fu->Kriegsmarine name was only applied in 1935 during the Nazi dictatorship whereas the Deutschland class was designed and built in the Weimar Republicno, wait, that's pedantry I can respectcarry on, sir
>>65043016>enginesand Graf Spee was better?I forget, which class had the large diesels
>>65043138>>65043168>>65043171this is the autism I come to /k/for
>>65039326>diesel engineCombusting diesel is directly converted into mechanical work>oil fired boilerCombusting oil is used to boil water, turning it into extremely high pressure steam, which is then converted into mechanical work via a turbine or expansion engine
>>65039544Pre-Nuclear scrap worth a lot that's why naval war graves get disappeared.
>>65039423The whole Bismarck thing is overhyped due to British wartime propaganda.Opening the seacocks and/or settting scuttling charges was and is a perfectly normal part of abandon ship procedures.
>>65044468>Pre-Nuclear scrap worth a lotnot anymore, they've developed cheap ways to get clean steel now>that's why naval war graves get disappearedif you're talking about Pacific wrecks, that's because the region was so dogshit poor even the pittance they got from selling the scrap was enough to make a living on>>65044482>board memes are British wartime propaganda
>>65043185Graf Spee had the diesels, they were apparently quite reliable.Scheer went raiding into the Indian ocean, captured tankers to refuel, and went back home.The Hippers were the oones with the high-pressure steam plant. When it worked, it was pretty god (according to the NTMG), but it required the enlisted crew to have a 'trained engineer's understanding', the NCO's to 'be engineers' and the ChEng to be 'a university professor'.Again, according to NTMG and comments by the USN when they operated and evaluated Prinz Eugen.
>>65044504>board memesLook m8 I had hoped for a 'sea cock' joke at least.
>>65044504>they've developed cheap ways to get clean steel nowBet it's more expensive than not cleaning it. :)Prince of Wales and Repulse have been mined out. I'm sure there are many many more.
>>65044578>Bet it's more expensive than not cleaning it. :)no, it really is cheaper than old wrecksthat's why nobody's touching the Kaiserliche Hochseeflotte
>>65044528ah thanks(wasn't aware of the USN post-war eval)
>>65044528>and the ChEng to be 'a university professor'average German kit to this dayin some circles you can't get a CTO or CEO job without an engineering doctorate and a couple of patents>it required the enlisted crew to have a 'trained engineer's understanding', the NCO's to 'be engineers'the Ukrainians said the same about NATO fighter jets. the key point to grasp here is the difference in education standards and syllabi
>>65044629>Kaiserliche HochseeflotteThey come up for sale once in a while. Cheap for a battleship but you have to salvage and dismantle them where they lie.
>>65044687yeah we've all seen the classifieds but how many actually get sold?>you have to salvage and dismantle them where they lieyes, and the cost of doing that is more expensive than the current processes for getting low-background steel
>>65044578Underwater salvage is insanely challenging and dangerous. It takes serious equipment and expertise.
>>65044578>I'm sure there are many many more.if something sunk in (relatively) undeep water its almost guaranteed to have been (illegally) salvaged, most of the Java sea wrecks have been picked clean
>>65044661Oh, I know that. The NTMG report is pretty critical of USN training standards and actually has a ton of 'lessons learned for future training and procedures' and even a section that's basically 'things we should implement in our Pacific campaign right fucking now'This willingness to adapt, adopt and learn on an institutional level made the USN the greatest naval fighting force for a century, after the Washington Treaty was signed.>the Ukrainians said the same about NATO fighter jets. the key point to grasp here is the difference in education standards and syllabiAbsolutely. Funnily enough this is something NATO already knew regarding jet maintenance.And it also includes what kind of maintenance happens at which organizational level, the decision-making expected at said levels, and so on.
>>65038883yeah but they were all germans anyway
>>65044504>developed ways to get clean steelYeah they stopped atmospheric nuclear testing.
If successful, increasing the temperature and pressure of steam could have resulted in long cruising ranges like those of US Navy vessels, but Germany's attempts failed, and they continued to suffer from engine problems.
>>65046084yeah they didn't get the focus that gives them the research bonus to naval engine tech
>>65038937>Graf Spee was just a cope version of Scharnhorstit was more of a big-gun light cruiser, not a proper battlecruiser like scharnhorst
>>65044482We all agree Bismarck was scuttled by 16 inch naval gunfire.
>>65047930Well they wouldn't let the FAA finish the job.
>>65047930Just recently read about Hood vs Bismarck, what a dramatic series of events. Hood gets obliterated by the luckiest shell in existence that manages to kill more than 3/4 of the men onboard but is then hunted down and absolutely butchered by the Royal Navy.
>>65047992>is then hunted down and absolutely butchered by the Royal Navywhat really struck me is how close Bismarck got to getting away with it, lots of lucky "hits" on both sidesanother such battle is Midway
>>65038754>graf /sp/
