Leaf here; curious as to whether I should get an M1 Garand (in .308) or a Henry Supreme (in .223). Our options are limited, with the Garands being the last semi auto battle rifles still available. I already own an SKS.
>>65053011Depends how much M1s are going for. They were extremely good for their era. From my experience the 308s tend to be temperamental so I'd be tempted to stick with 30.06 if ammunition cost and availability isn't too bad.As far as the Henry, hard pass. I'd rather have a good bolt-action instead. Henry QC and material quality (especially the cheap-ass wood) really does not live up to their price point. An M1 is designed to fight a war, a Henry will probably break during a peaceful easy range day.
>>65053011I've heard bad t hings about the .308 Garands due to the way they handle different loads. Garands were really meant to function with 30.06.
>>65053011garands are more capable but you need to nonpermanently modify them with those gas plugs because the design is like arcane magic that just barely works and is very load dependent see all the issues garands had before WWII and all the issues M14s, mini14s and m1As have and had. .223 is way cheaper
>>65053096M14s and Mini-14s aren't picky with ammunition at all, though it's specifically because they corrected the issue that M1s had.M14s switched to a different short stroke gas system that is over gassed by default with a bleed off that opens towards the end of the cycle. This allows them to run a wide variety of loads with no adjustment. When I owned M14 clones (M1As among them, that's just what Springfield Inc. calls theirs) they would all cycle everything from heavy hunting ammo to surplus, AP or even steel cases Russian ammunition without any issues.Mini-14s use a gas system similar to the M1 Carbine but made even more idiot proof. The gas port plugs into a hole in a slide that pushes the op rod and it has enough mass to handle just about anything. I've owned multiple Mini-14s as well and they too would digest Russian 223, blanks, surplus 5.56mm, match ammo, lightweight varmint loads, you name it. Their only problem was good magazines, not the gas system.The M1 Garand meanwhile is kind of a kludgy design that starts to make way more sense if you look at earlier WW1 era attempts at turning bolt actions into automatic rifles. They basically found a way to build that from the ground up, make it work well and made millions exactly like that. They do in fact work great, but struggle when modified. It isn't a very flexible design because tweaking things like caliber and barrel length will have numerous knock on effects on everything else. This isn't unique to the M1 of course, but it is more the case for it than most modern designs that are inherently more flexible. But if those aren't available, a well tuned M1 is a great choice.
>>65053011Garand in .30-06
>>65053147>M14s and Mini-14s aren't picky with ammunition at all, though it's specifically because they corrected the issue that M1s had.I shoot high power and I've never seen an M1A that wasn't a jam-o-matic piece of shit
>>65053158I've run 1970s Israeli 7.62 surplus that was almost more black and green than brass with pressures from squib to proof and it still cycled. What on earth are HP match shooters doing that they choke with handpicked match ammunition?
>>65053160IDK but I've never seen an M1A get though a match without a malfunction
>>65053167My experience is troubleshooting basic field grade rifles made out of random GI parts and shooting them innawoods/deserts with the cheapest ammunition I could get because I was poor. And it had to be an M14 because I was living in California at the time.I suspect the match shooters are porting their gas systems to reduce vibration for better harmonics and accuracy, at the expense of reliability. You probably don't get penalized much for the jam other than losing time, so that trade off might make sense.A regular off the shelf, properly built M14 clone will eat whatever. It could still eat shit due to a crappy/damaged magazine or crap getting behind the bolt into the trigger assembly of course. You can also get a badly built rifle where the barrel/gas system is installed crooked and the op rod is either rubbing or jumping the track. But the gas system is a big improvement over the M1. Bent op rods aren't a thing and adjustment isn't necessary.
>>65053188>You probably don't get penalized much for the jam other than losing time, so that trade off might make sense.if you don't try to clear the jam, you get to refire the timed rapid fire strings so zero penalty. the only thing you lose time on are the slow fire which is like 10 rounds in 10 mins or 20 rounds in 20 mins so not the biggest issue to lose time
>>65053208Yeah they are probably tuning down the amount of gas hitting the piston. The gas block is basically hanging under the barrel and because it is normally over gassed that is going to be sub optimal for accuracy. Reducing or porting gas feeding into the block would probably reduce vibration, but narrows the range of ammunition loads it can cycle without adjustment. If you have ultra precise hand loads which a match shooter would because that's a critical component to being competitive in the first place you can theoretically mitigate that issue, but those rifles are probably running at the ragged edge of short stroking every shot.Mind you, I haven't shot an HP match with an M14. I'm speculating this based off my experience and understanding of the design and it's shortcomings (of which don't get me wrong, there are many).
>>65053011I like my .308 M1
>>65053011>an M1 Garand (in .308)Who did the conversion? Was it one of the military models or a civilian job? Advantage of an M1 in 7.62NATO is that there's lots of surplus/contract overrun NATO ball on the market.
>>65053011For what it's worth I have a CMP built .308 M1 with a couple hundred rounds down it with no malfunctions except with South African surplus ammo which seemed underpowered. If you like shooting your SKS you'll probably enjoy the M1. Just make sure to only use surplus clips and also M80 ball or ammo approximating its pressure/bullet weight if you don't have an adjustable gas plug
>>65053011No. Get a preciscon bolt gun in caliber you can afford. With a nice piece of glass.
>>65053011.308 garands are no where near as common as .30-06. You're going to want to get an adjustable gas plug for it, most likely.
>>65053011Build an M1 in 6.5x55 or kill yourself.
>>65053011>I already own an SKS.Have you ever thought to yourself, "I like my SKS but I wish it were heavier"?
>>65053712>boltare you gay?
>>65053011Not a leaf but I own a pasta converted 7.62 HATO Garand. You really need to have it cleaned and lubed because otherwise you will get failures to feed pretty often. Otherwise it's a really great gun to shoot.
>>65053096The Mini 14 is one of the least ammo picky automatic guns in existence in my experience. That’s why they used them and all those movies in the A-Team and stuff, they cycle blanks like a champ.
>>65053096>mini-14>picky FUCKING WHAT
>>65056929>>65056937I thought mini14s had the same gas system as the M1 which is super picky because I thought M14s had the same gas system because I've only ever seen M1As at NRA high power matches and I've never seen an M1A get through a complete high power match without multiple stoppages. I think I had one stoppage ever with my AR at one of those matches and that was because I didn't seat the mag all the way
>>65057007No, they are more like an M1 Carbine only with a much bigger slide and blowing way more gas into it.Picrel is the op rod/slide mechanism. It has a blind hole in the front for a gas pipe to plug into.
>>65057007>natmatch M1A'sThose are notorious for being undergassed to the point of being bolt actions, those are not standard guns at all.
>>65057064This is the bottom half of the gas assembly, it is clamped around the barrel and directs gas through a hole to that pipe, blowing it into the blind hole in the slide attached to the front of the op rod.That slide rides in a heat shield inside the handguard at the front of the stock.None of this is very sophisticated or great for accuracy, especially since it has terrible harmonics and vents heat right inside the handguard up through vents near the barrel but it cycles anything any time.
This is an M1 Carbine op rod/gas slide assembly for comparison. The slide is much smaller than that of the Mini-14 but the principle is the same.
>>65057082Would help if I had attached the picture. Obviously this one is taken looking from the left whereas the Ruger example above is from the right.
>>65053063>>6505301106 ammo is very reasonable. I picked up a thousand rounds of Sellier & Bellot (M2 ball spec) last Fall for dirt cheap (cheaper than any .308 win, which I shoot most, I've bought in forever). The trick with a Garand is getting your hands on GOOD enbloc clips. Last batch of 50 I bought new were off-spec, wouldn't load at all and the manufacturer gave me a full refund with no return-shipment. There are still batches of good surplus ones out there, but that market is full of scumbags, so you've got be careful.
>>65053096>barely worksSo, you've never, ever shot one then. Good to know.
>>65057525go look up all the issues garands had before WWII like the 7th round stoppage or how tanker garands weren't a thing. there's a reason no one else was fielding semi autos back then. Garand designed a rifle that works with a specific barrel length with a specific load and when you fuck with the barrel length or clips or load at all it fucks with the gun and it stops working reliably. the SAS and American special forces used to use MP5s and HKs and shit because when you shortened ARs and FALs they wouldn't work reliably and that's something we only fixed pretty recently
>>65057560First, I don't do research for other people, dumbass. Second, nobody is buying pre WWII Garands on this thread. Last, only an idiot is putting non-spec ammunition through a gas-operated mass-produced military action. Pressure too low? Brass won't eject. Pressure too high? Bent operating rod. You're the type of dumbass who is responsible for the "do not eat'' warning labels on tide pods.
>>65057628didn't read, no gunz thirdie. you are clearly gay, retarded, no gunz and a thirdie
>>65057653>incoherent screeching
>>65053011>M1 GarandGood.>in .308Gay.>>65053096>you need to nonpermanently modify them with those gas plugsI've always fed my Garand whatever was the cheapest crap .30-06 I could find at the time and never ran into an issue.
>>65058908nice airshit>>65058915I think it can potentially damage the oprod. I'm pretty sure the adjustable gas plug thing is like less than $10 and is a nonpermanent modification. I was kind of interested garands when I got into guns, but I got an AR and I know I didn't like the concussion of shooting someone else's FAL and I don't want to pay for .30-06 and shooting my ARs doesn't bother me at all
>>65053063I was shocked at how bad the 308 Garand ran when I shot one. Though, I disagree with you about Henry. They run great
>>65060395It's a coin toss, if you get one that was made on a Wednesday it'll usually be fine as long as you don't thrash it. If it was made on a Monday or Friday it'll be defective out of the box.My experience comes from working at an LGS that sold a lot of Henry rifles. About 1/3 were completely fucked on initial inspection and went back to the distributor for replacement/refund, about half of the ones we did sell developed some sort of severe problem within the first or second range session and had to go to Henry for repairs. The remaining ones probably didn't get shot enough to break.Their CS was very helpful and friendly, but I can tell the company strategy is to sell pure trash for ridiculous prices and just fix/refund the ones that come back. They must have a stupendous profit margin for every rifle that doesn't get returned. Either that or we just had incredibly bad luck with the ones we got. Not even the most el-cheapo Turkish shotguns we got had as bad a failure rate.
>>65060395>>65060563I have a henry .22. The wood on the stock isn't even but it doesn't wobble or anything. I've had maybe one malfunction ever that wasn't me trying to cycle the gun without the mag spring in it because I didn't realize that will 100% make it jam every time when trying to unload it and I just needed to rerack the lever and it was fine. the bullet must have presented weird or something but cause it felt gritty but rerunning the lever fixed it.I put a bore cam down it and it looked like I had a huge rust spot but idk if that was just the bore camera. my groups were worse after but it's .22lr so it might have just been that I was shooting el cheapo bucket of bullet shit instead of minimags and it also wasn't like so bad it was unacceptable for a plinking .22. Like it wasn't muh sub moa but it's not like you expect a .22 to be a sub moa gun unless it's a match gun
>>65060603The 22s tend to have fewer problems than their centerfire models. Not because they are made any better but because the design itself is fundamentally simpler so there are fewer things to fuck up. They are also far cheaper, so minor problems are more forgiveable.I think a lot of people who fanboy over Henry get one of the 22s and assume that the 357/44/45LC/30-30/45-70 models all function the same way and they don't quite realize that it's a different animal until they pay a fortune to get one and get burned.The Long Ranger really pisses me off because it is nearly the same price as the BLR which is a much better rifle. We didn't get too many of those so I don't know if they are less bad, which is possible because feeding from a box magazine would sidestep many of the problems that the tube fed models had.
>>65060384It's hilarious watching a tryhard flail around
>>65060759is that your self portrait, no gunz?
