The 7th general nuclear thread on /k/ since 2024. Discuss military and civilian nuclear design and fuckups alike, or read translations of such
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63053811/https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63104003/https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63235460/https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/64284335/https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/64312521/https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/64625001/
Guess I'll start.Seascale Cancer Cluster in the 70s and 80s? Another BS statistical nitpick like every other one of these, or a result of the Windscale fire?
>>65066830well, if you're really interested, here's your homework: correlate those figures against per capita cancer diagnoses of the same year throughout all of UK, and get back to me if it's >5% difference
>>65066830The what?>The Seascale cancer cluster refers to a confirmed, roughly tenfold excess of childhood leukemia cases in Seascale, Cumbria, between 1955 and 1992. Located near the Sellafield nuclear reprocessing site, the cluster sparked intense scrutiny, but expert committees concluded radiation doses from the plant were too low to cause the cancer, pointing instead toward infectious causes linked to population mixing. Population mixing? Infectious causes? lol what?
The Six Million Sievert Man is still the craziest story to come out of these>Chechen thieves in 1999 break into a facility in Grozny to steal cobalt >6 Colbalt-60 rods measuring 27,000 curies each are taken. (So 162 thousand curies, like 6 PBQ) >One of the thieves holds onto them against his body for a while, one report says he was shirtless not sure>He dies within 30 minutes after seizures>Other thieves die within 48 hoursThe main perp likely died of something that would have internally looked closer to cyanide or nerve gas poisoning rather than traditional radiation poisoning as so many cells would have died his entire nervous system and ATP system would have collapsed.The other guys in the room not handling the stuff probably just got a couple thousand rads. Like 200-300 sieverts. Main guy's is literally incalculable as all models collapse at those levels
>>65066020QRD/Highlights?
>>65066886>QRDRussia has always been hilariously incompetent when it comes to nuclear power and holds the record for most known accidents and fatalities>Highlightsmy favourite is the sub reactor that went supercritical when they fucked up putting the lid back onthink Demon Core but the screwdriver is a giant dockyard crane
>>65066895I left my PDF translation project half finished and don't have the energy to pick that back up tonight(but I will at some point this thread), maybe I'll repost my K-431 translation from last time to get this thread going
>>65066886Russians and spicy rocks do not mix well
>The Pacific Fleet command staff was momentarily stunned. Just then, the duty officer rushed into the room where they were waiting for a concert by singer Edita Piekha , who had just arrived in Vladivostok , and reported a nuclear reactor explosion.>Within a few minutes, the Deputy Commander of the Pacific Fleet, Vice-Admiral Nikolai Yasakov, the head of the political department, Vice-Admiral Alexander Slavsky , and those accompanying them were on board the Typhoon boat, which was racing at full speed toward Chazhma Bay.>The shipyard they landed at was completely deserted. The commanding officers didn't believe the information they'd received, and in response to the local officer's rambling report, clearly in a state of shock, Yasakov launched into an angry tirade.>"What do you think you're saying?" he raged. "If there had been a nuclear explosion, this place would be a desert! Take us to the scene!">Soon, the admirals were faced with a horrific reality. A huge, jagged crater gaped where the K-431 nuclear submarine's reactor compartment had once been. Torn metal fragments and human remains littered the pier and shore. No one knew then that one of the largest radiation disasters in human history had occurred in Chazhma Bay. Chernobyl was just eight months away.
>>65066898Where are getting the stuff to translate? I think i asked in one of the earlier threads, but im kinda looking for a book on Soviet nuclear shenanigans but in English
>>65066902>The development of peaceful nuclear energy began in the USSR in the second half of the 1950s. Nuclear power plants sprang up like mushrooms after rain across the country. Following the first power units of the Beloyarsk and Novovoronezh Nuclear Power Plants, facilities were built in Ukraine , the central part of the RSFSR, the Transcaucasus, and even the Arctic Circle.>The first radiation accident on a nuclear submarine occurred on July 4, 1961. On that day, the crew of the SSBN-19, the first in the USSR, was on combat duty in the North Atlantic and encountered problems with the reactor's primary cooling circuit. Disaster was averted, but most of the sailors were exposed to radiation while responding to the accident. Nine died, and the rest were hospitalized and received various disabilities.>The authorities kept the incident a closely guarded secret. All survivors were required to sign non-disclosure agreements. The relatives of the victims were outright lied to. For example, the parents of one of the sailors were told their son had been electrocuted.>According to retired Captain First Rank Eduard Platonov, the weak point of all early submarine nuclear power plants was the steam generators. Almost every sea mission went by without a "Radiation Hazard" signal triggered by a malfunction in one of them. This meant a leak, spreading radiation to other compartments.>The failed steam generator was shut down, the consequences of the deteriorating radiation situation were addressed, and the nuclear-powered submarine continued its missions. Submarines arrived at the shipyard with half of their steam generators shut down.
>>65066904>This exact story happened to the K-11 nuclear submarine, which spent over a year at the Zvezdochka shipyard in Severodvinsk . After repairs were completed, on February 12, 1965, the submarine's reactor core was being refuelled there. Due to personnel negligence, an unauthorized reactor start-up occurred, resulting in a steam and gas release and a fire.>Once again, the Soviet Navy lost sailors. Officer Platonov was extremely lucky: a few hours before the tragedy, he was offered an extra ticket to a concert performed by artists from Leningrad at the local Palace of Culture, and he swapped shifts with a comrade.>"Upon arrival on the ship, a horrific scene met my gaze," Platonov recalled. "Through the opening of the removable sheet, I could see the charred and half-flooded reactor compartment, over which either smoke or steam, or perhaps both, were still billowing. I descended through the hatch of the eighth compartment into the aft compartments. There I saw an equally depressing scene.">The sixth, seventh, and eighth compartments were half-submerged in water contaminated with extremely high concentrations of radioactive substances. The plant grounds, piers, and port waters were contaminated—the reactor compartment was flooded while extinguishing the fire, producing 350 tons of highly radioactive water. Another 150 tons leaked into the turbine compartment. To prevent the submarine from sinking, the radioactive water was pumped overboard—right in the plant waters. The submarine remained afloat, but the reactor compartment had to be cut out. It was later sunk near Novaya Zemlya.
>>65066905>Another 20 years passed. In April 1985, the nuclear submarine K-431 sailed from Vladimir Bay in the Sea of Japan (southeast of Primorsky Krai) to Chazhma Bay to replace its spent nuclear fuel and moored to the north side of Pier 2 of Ship Repair Yard No. 30. Nearby were the monitoring and dosimetry vessel (MDV), the K-42 nuclear submarine, and a non-self-propelled floating technical base (FTB), while on the other side of the pier were two more nuclear submarines undergoing repairs and the MK-16 cutter.>The K-431's nuclear fuel reloading operation was to be handled by personnel from the Coastal Technical Base (CTB). Shortly after the submarine's arrival, CTB specialists inspected the submarine's condition and issued a readiness report. From that moment on, they became responsible for the safety of all operations. The reloading operation was supervised by Captain 3rd Rank Vyacheslav Tkachenko , who, as was later reported, was going through a rough patch.>The lightweight, durable hull was removed from the K-431 reactor compartment and special technological equipment was installed—a silumin (aluminum-silicon alloy) handling house called "Winter," which prevented precipitation from entering the compartment and maintained the temperature regime.>On August 9, 1985, the refueling crew successfully replaced the core of one reactor. However, an emergency occurred during the refueling of the second (aft) reactor. It began leaking, failing hydraulic tests, and a leak was discovered in the mating joint of the aft reactor's lid. This was caused by a foreign object lodged in the copper sealing ring.
>>65066908>This meant an increase in the nuclear fuel reloading period, as adjustments had to be made to the technological process.>In violation of instructions, the reloading team officers failed to report the incident. They decided to return to the submarine the next day and quietly fix the problem, so no one would know. The sailors were confident everything would go smoothly: they decided to lift the reactor lid, clean the ring, replace the lid, and conduct a hydraulic test.>"Shortly before 12:00 PM on August 10, they began lifting the reactor lid," notes Captain 1st Rank Alexander Gruzdev in his article "The Nuclear Disaster of the K-431 Submarine ." "On the K-431 and PTB-16, crews were stationed at their combat posts. At the submarine's control room, the main power plant operators monitored the reactor's performance using instruments. However, gross violations of nuclear safety regulations were committed during the work.">The "Atom" command, as is required for such an operation, was not issued to the ship. During installation of the dry detonation device, the retaining lock for the compensating grid was not secured.>So, on Saturday, August 10th, the reloaders set to work, calculating the distance the crane could lift the lid without starting a chain reaction. However, they were unaware that the compensating grate and the remaining absorbers were also being lifted along with the lid. A critical situation had arisen, and the further course of events depended on the slightest chance.
>>65066909>And it happened,” Vice-Admiral Viktor Khramtsov, one of the investigators of the emergency, later wrote. “The cover with the compensating grid and absorbers was hanging on a crane, and the crane was on a floating workshop, which could swing in one direction or another, that is, raise the cover even further to the launch level or lower it.”>"Events developed according to the worst-case scenario">Then, a fateful accident intervened: precisely at midday, a small torpedo boat, designed to retrieve training torpedoes after firing, unexpectedly burst into the bay from the sea. Despite warning signals from the watchtower, it passed through Chazhma at high speed, raising a large wave. It rocked the floating workshop with its crane, the reactor lid was ripped upward along with the entire absorber system, and the reactor itself entered the launch mode.>"A chain reaction occurred," Khramtsov described the moment of the disaster. "An enormous amount of energy was released, and everything in, above, and around the reactor was ejected. The refuelling house burned and vaporized, the refuelling officers were incinerated in the flash, and the crane on the floating workshop was torn loose and thrown into the bay."
>>65066910Translator anon was banned for unrelated other-board reasons. Finish his K-431 repost and keep the thread alive until he is unbanned in 3 days. He will return and translate the Mayak PDF
>>65066913>Translator anon was banned for unrelated other-board reasonsKek
>>65066913#freeTransAnon
>>65066869You see, the browns are fragile.
>>65066982seriously, the only techy thread up without shit flinging...#freeTransAnon
>>65066910The soviets outdid Louis Slotin here. It 8d the maritime version of the demon core.
>>65066830I'm sure it's entirely a coincidence.
>>65066017Does anyone have the picture the P-3 Orion took of the brown smoke coming out of the soviet ssbn that had a rocked fuel cell rupture?
>>65067558Brown smoke means the reactor crew has chosen a new Pope
>>65067609kek
>>65066910>and the reactor itself entered the launch modeNot gonna lie but that descriptor gave me a light chuckle.Great reading in this thread, btw. Waiting patiently for translateanon with more material.
>>65066910>"Events developed according to the worst-case scenario"Professionally worded, still absolutely chilling in context.
If it hasn't been recommended, I would really recommend Feroz Khan's "Eating Grass" about the Pakistani nuclear weapons program.
Contributing this video but assume most of you have seen it:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHbiGWlQUGESame channel has a good video on Vela incident.>>65066904These steam generator leaks, was it from primary loop leaking into secondary? or some other defect>>65066910>Not only did we fuckup and somehow get FOD on the copper gasket for the lid>We also decided to lift it with a floating crane Fascinatingly dumb. One thing I don't understand from the story is what is meant by "compensating grid and absorbers", is this some kind of unusual translation somebody could enlighten me on? is it the arrangement of control rods (Which I assume is attached to the lid based on "calculating the distance the crane could lift the lid without starting a chain reaction"?)>>65068334How did it go?
>>65066910The other half of that is on Desuarchives someone repost it
>>65068433>was it from primary loop leaking into secondary?Most likely. The Russians have a long and storied history of shitty welds in critical applications. There really shouldn't be very much crap floating around in the primary loop of a properly maintained plant, but again, this is Russia that we're talking about here. Once the primary and secondary loops start swapping water, some of that nastiness will eventually make its way out into the atmosphere via any number of pathways, airborne alarms start going off, and your boring deterrent patrol suddenly becomes rather exciting. The cleanup is not pleasant.>t. has done a few cleanups after primary leaks>shit gets into the paint, don't ask me how
>>65067558K-219. Many exist in an image search.
>>65067558>>65069558The best shots are the ones taken by the crew on-board.https://x.com/RSS_40/status/1051051116253863936
>>65066879>dying from incalculable levels of radiation poisoningPretty based way to go out
>>65069928An anon in one of the threads said that the water in your cells turns into hydrogen peroxide because the cell break down is that bad. Then there's that story about the chernobyl firefighter who dodged serious radiation sickness because he was drunk on the job, and a cursory google search *seems* to bear that out, from my understanding (an ignorant anon who has never worked a day in related scientific or medical fields), it can't heal radiation damage but it can reduce its effect on cells, somehow. Obviously no human trials lol.
>>65067477>Organ removal inquiry
>>65066913I have had similar happen to me while doing or preparing nice things for the board, and let me tell you, nothing saps my will to contribute high quality OC than Rape Ape's gang of retards.
>>65070340>Workers at Sellafield, the nuclear plant at the centre of the missing body parts scandal, were subjected to secret Cold War experiments in which they were exposed to radiation, The Observer can reveal.>One experiment, described in a confidential memo, involved volunteers drinking doses of caesium 134, a radioactive isotope that was released in fatal quantities following the Chernobyl disaster. Other experiments involved exposing volunteers to uranium, strontium 85, iodine 132 and plutonium.>One memo from the government's Medical Research Council Radiobiological Unit, written in 1962, describes the need to experiment on three types of volunteer: 'pregnant women and all persons under 18'; 'patients with non-fatal illnesses and volunteers'; and 'patients in hospitals and volunteers who are undergoing tests under appropriate medical supervision with regard to any possible effects from radiation'.>The document suggests that the recommended limit for a volunteer's exposure to radiation could be exceeded 'in exceptional cases, for example patients with fatal illnesses and research workers who are well informed about the risk from ionizing radiations'.Holy shit and we thought the Russians were bad lmao.
>>65066910>"Events developed according to the worst-case scenario"Is this the motto of the Soviet Unon attempting to boil water?
>>65069567Ah yes, the orange fog of fun.Bonus points for managing to make this even more terrible by having a slightly leaky reactor nearby, now you can get radiation poisoning on top of huffing NTO.
>>65070449>we thought the Russians were bad lmao.British engineering is this:Bodging = smekalka, this is a huge thing in British engineering, trying to bodge solutions together rather than putting in the effort to do it right or report that something is fucked up and fixing it.This is worsened by engineering in the UK being not particularly well paid compared to the rest of the world. There is an institutional lack of desire to improve and people basically just go "well that is the way it is" when things go wrong. Work ethic is often lax because of demoralisation as a result of this. This then knocks on to anyone who does have a good work ethic because they have to deal with laziness, unresolved issues etc.A lot of areas also have high levels of deprivation and are just a bit shit, Sellafield is a great example, which makes hiring good staff difficult. I mean just for fun google the number of sex scandals to do with British nuclear submarines if you really want to see all these things made manifest:https://news.clearancejobs.com/2021/02/10/royal-navy-officer-shows-how-to-sink-cleared-careers-with-porn-filming-on-a-nuclear-base/
>>65066908>The reloading operation was supervised by Captain 3rd Rank Vyacheslav Tkachenko , who, as was later reported, was going through a rough patch .>was going through a rough patch
>>65070316As I understand it, the Soviets were much more curious about the effects of various foods and drugs vs. radiation exposure. Supposedly there's a lot of documentation about it, although it doesn't seem to be available on the internet.I'm familiar with the firefighter that you mention although I don't remember his name. Reportedly when medical staff noticed that he was in far better shape than his companions (who'd received similar doses), they immediately accused him of being drunk on duty, which he eventually admitted to. It might simply be Slavic superstition, but it's interesting nonetheless.>no human trialsNo official human trials anyway. The Soviets may have come to this conclusion as a result of numerous unofficial tests and pattern recognition.
>>65066910Must've been a Japanese torpedo boat.>>65066913>Translator anon was banned for unrelated other-board reasons.I'm sure the reasons were completely unrelated to possibly implying the Soviet nuclear industry was anything less than great.Translator anon simply had the misfortune of getting electrocuted, then returned to posting under his own power)))
Was this accurate?
>>65070656Fuck no, far more dramatized than the real thingIf you want the real story there's several interviews with crew in thishttps://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000078940.pdf
>>65070611>No official human trials anyway.Yeah no. They used tens of thousands of gulag inmates as guinea pigs, from mining uranium ore to all the chemical fun that follows.>>65070449>Holy shit and we thought the Russians were bad lmao.They were, even if it's just the scale of the tragedy.
>>65066910>The explosion was so powerful that the 12-ton lid, as if made of plywood, flew up to a height of two kilometers and crashed back onto the reactor, then fell onto the side of the submarine, rupturing the hull below the waterline. Survivors remember a single bright flash of light about six meters high, followed by orange-gray smoke rising above the reactor and a cloud forming, which began to move northwest.>Water from the bay gushed into the reactor compartment. Everything ejected by the explosion rained down on the hulls of the K-431, K-42, the floating fuel tanks, the submarine control ship, the bay waters, the piers, the plant, and the hills. Within minutes, everything around the exploding nuclear-powered vessel, caught in the wake of the release, became radioactive. The reaction lasted 0.7 seconds, and the radiation intensity exceeded 50,000 roentgens.>The explosion caused a massive fire in the reactor compartment, and a long, several-centimeter-wide crack appeared along the submarine's starboard side. Power cables from the shore were severed, plunging the compartments into darkness. Seawater began to leak through the cracks.>How did the disaster happen? The reactor's power increased because they removed the compensating grids along with the lid. It went supercritical, and the sudden release of energy caused the water to heat up and boil, explains Andrey Ozharovsky, an engineer, physicist, and expert on the Radioactive Waste Safety program, to Lenta.ru. "Water is a coolant and a moderator. After it evaporated, the nuclear reaction stopped. To some extent, this design limited the consequences of the accident."
>>65071034>According to him, there was a very short energy release, a limited nuclear explosion.>"It was somewhat fortunate that [the explosion] occurred during the final stage of refueling, not the initial one," the specialist emphasizes. "Nuclear fuel is essentially natural uranium. And the fuel that operates at the end of the reactor cycle contains all the known killer isotopes from Chernobyl—iodine, cesium, strontium, etc. That is, the release itself was significantly smaller in scale than if the sailors had messed up at the initial stage of this operation, especially as there had not yet been time to install the safety apparatus.">Ozharovsky also notes that submarine bases in the future should be prepared for radiation accidents. This did not apply to Chazhma.>What happened next followed a worst-case scenario: untrained people began putting out the fire, he continues. "They didn't use all the required personal protective equipment. They said the dirt was spread throughout the military settlement. According to the instructions, there should be a radiation monitoring station where people are washed and tested. Radioactive substances primarily stick to clothing, shoes, skin, and hair."
>>65071040>Eight officers and two sailors died as a direct result of the explosion. All the nuclear fuel that didn't burn during the chain reaction was released into the air as highly radioactive particles. A smoke plume containing radionuclide aerosols extended up to 30 kilometers and was five and a half kilometers wide, traveling from southeast to northwest. In addition to all the ships moored in Chazhma Bay, it enveloped villages scattered along the coastline.>The K-431 crew, split in two by the explosion, found themselves in a critical situation. At first, many didn't realize the radiation hazard, and when they finally realized what had happened, not everyone was able to control themselves.>Some of the crew simply fled the submarine. The political officer took refuge in his cabin on the floating barracks, drank alcohol to neutralize the radioactivity, and passed out. The remaining sailors began fighting for their ship and their lives.
>>65071050>>65071050>The fire was eventually extinguished with foam, but people were exposed to severe radiation.>The incident deeply shocked Captain 3rd Rank Tkachenko. He fell into a state of helplessness and could no longer perform his duties. Valery Storchak, who took command in his place, immediately assessed the situation and realized that the sailors near the exploded reactor would likely receive a lethal dose of radiation. The experienced submariner decided to reduce the number of casualties as much as possible, even at the cost of his own life.>Storchak immediately dispatched over 20 reloaders and "green" sailors who had served less than a year aboard the floating base to shore. The rest were divided into shifts, which immediately began decontamination work. With the help of the rescue vessel Mashuk, the PTB-16 was towed from Chazhma Bay to Putyatin Island.>Many sailors from K-431 and PTB-16 were hospitalized. Some were urgently transported to Leningrad.>"Captain 3rd Rank Storchak refused to leave," Gruzdev concluded. "'It's better to die at home,'" he explained. No one recorded the radiation dose the sailors received while fighting to keep the K-431 safe and decontaminating the PTB-16: at the time, the navy lacked the means to monitor high doses.
>>65071059>Among the first to rush to the aid of those in distress were the sailors from the K-42 submarine—not all of them, of course, but some of the crew. The division's duty officer, Dmitry Lifinsky, then a Captain of the Third Rank, jumped onto the deck, sounded the emergency alarm, and blew the "Radiation Hazard" signal. Activating the pumps, they began extinguishing the fire with three nozzles.>“There was no fear,” he admitted decades later.>It is likely that thanks to the prompt actions of this officer and his fellow soldiers, even greater troubles were avoided, and residents of Vladivostok, a city of half a million at the time, were not caught in the disaster zone."The sailors' remains were encased in concrete.">The nuclear disaster cleanup operation lasted over a month, involving approximately two thousand people—units from the Primorsky Flotilla, civil defense, chemical defense, marine engineering service, and military construction teams. An emergency effort was needed to prevent the sinking of the K-431, which, due to a crack formed by the explosion, was at risk of sinking to a depth of 15 meters. Ultimately, the submarine was grounded bow-first onto a coastal drainage dam. The reactor compartment was then filled with concrete, and the nuclear-powered vessel was towed to Strelets Bay.
>>65071067>The reactor debris and nuclear fuel elements scattered by the explosion were removed from the plant site, solid radioactive waste was buried, and repositories were constructed. Not only the irradiated asphalt but also the soil—up to a depth of a meter—was removed. Decontamination work was carried out throughout the entire area traversed by the radioactive plume. The spill site was cordoned off, but a significant portion of the contaminated water was simply swept away by ships.>According to official data, 913 people were exposed to radiation, including 290 at elevated doses. However, Captain 1st Rank Gruzdev, a researcher on the issue, believes that these figures are at least twice as low.>The expert supports his belief with an example: upon entering the contaminated area, each rescuer was given a Geiger counter to count the accumulated radiation dose. However, the next day, they were given a new Geiger counter, not the one they'd used the day before, which began counting radiation from scratch, and thus was done every day for the official calculations. Thus, the total radiation exposure remained unknown. The total number of people—both military and civilian—who were in the disaster zone remains a mystery.>However, it is known that the most severe radioactive contamination occurred over an area of approximately two square kilometers. Radiation levels there exceeded background levels by hundreds and thousands of times. It was in this area that a repository was established, where contaminated soil layers, as well as equipment, structural elements, and buildings, were removed.>In the early 1990s, those involved in the cleanup efforts and medical officers who served in the aftermath of the explosion nearly all died one after another. Those who survived developed cancer, nervous system disorders, and became disabled.
>>65071073>Much less information is available about the fate of residents of coastal villages. Fortunately, the radiation plume from the accident passed mostly through uninhabited areas.>"The radioactive trail spread across the peninsula and into the waters," Ozharovsky explains. "An important detail: a huge amount of cobalt-60 accumulated within the reactor structures themselves. It's an activation product. Apparently, this substance became one of the main contaminants. They say that in the first hours and days after the accident, the radiation levels and doses were absolutely catastrophic. I don't know if anyone has conducted research into the increasing cobalt concentrations in seafood caught there. After Fukushima, they've taken this seriously, and there's a whole monitoring system in place. But 40 years ago, since the accident was classified, I think the approach was more frivolous.">As the expert notes, while in the case of Fukushima it is known that contaminated saury resulted from the accident, there is no such data for Chazhma—there were no measurements.>It is known that in the village of Dunay (formerly Shkotovo-22), located on the shore of Strelok Bay, the growth of oncological diseases, compared to the early 1980s, has increased from two to eight people per year.
>>65071080>According to Valery Bulatov's classification , the emergency in Chazhma Bay is one of the five largest radiation disasters in the world.>"The consequences were truly serious; there are more children with cancer in those parts of the region than in other areas," one Primorye resident told Lenta.ru.>The remains of ten of the dead were collected literally piece by piece from various locations in the bay. Only the flagship engineer, Captain 2nd Rank Viktor Tseluyko, and the commander of the 3rd division of the BC-5, Captain 3rd Rank Anatoly Dedushkin, were identified. The remains were consigned to the flames in a furnace at one of the factories in Bolshoy Kamen.>The sailors' families wanted to collect the urns containing their ashes, but the Pacific Fleet command was unable to do so due to the high radioactivity. The symbolic ashes were divided into ten metal capsules and buried deep beneath a thick layer of concrete at a radioactive waste disposal site.>"Even as children, we were told that the sailors' remains were encased in concrete when they were buried—the radiation levels were through the roof," a local resident told Lenta.ru. "That made a strong impression on me back then. I also remember how new residents who came to the surrounding villages and towns were horrified when they heard stories about 1985. They knew nothing about it beforehand."
>>65071085>To investigate the causes of the disaster, a commission was formed, headed by the Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Navy for Operations, Admiral Valery Novikov , which included naval specialists, prominent nuclear scientists, and representatives of a number of ministries and departments.>They determined that the explosion occurred due to a gross violation of the technological process by the personnel responsible for refueling the nuclear power bases. According to the commission's findings, the officials responsible for refueling the reactors had lost their sense of caution and foresight when handling fissile materials.>“All of us, the fleet’s leaders, were, to a greater or lesser extent, to blame for the disaster that occurred on the K-431,” Vice-Admiral Slavsky later admitted.>But the court found Tkachenko to be the main culprit among the survivors. He was given a suspended sentence of three years. However, the captain himself had been exposed to a significant amount of radiation and was in very poor health. By order of the USSR Minister of Defense Sergei Sokolov , all the officials who were, in one way or another, involved in the disaster were subject to disciplinary action.>The Chazhma accident demonstrated the dangers of small marine reactors and the dangers of nuclear fuel refueling, concludes Ozharovsky. The lessons of this accident are still relevant today, as nuclear submarines, surface ships—icebreakers, and the floating nuclear power plant—continue to operate. Refueling is still carried out regularly today.>The nuclear engineer-physicist points out that the nuclear fuel reloading procedure itself is extremely dangerous.
>>65071087>The authorities, understandably, tried to keep the accident and its aftermath secret. Even as perestroika was gaining momentum, only bits of information leaked out, and all the liquidators signed non-disclosure agreements. For example, Lifinsky, an officer on the K-42 nuclear submarine, remained silent about what happened for over 20 years. His role in the cleanup was revealed almost by accident. Unlike some others, Lifinsky didn't chicken out and run away, but he paid for his heroic act with his health.>The first detailed report of the nuclear disaster in Chazhma Bay was published only in 1991. According to Vice Admiral Khramtsov, if information about this accident had not been classified, Chernobyl could have been prevented.>"The accident at K-431 was caused by the indiscipline and recklessness of the specialists who overloaded the reactor," said the former commander of the 4th Submarine Flotilla of the Soviet Navy. "At the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant, the same 'specialists' imagined they could do anything with the reactor, disabling all safety systems.">Khramtsov believed that the truth about the disaster in Chazhma was needed not only by the Soviet Union and its armed forces, but by the entire world.>"If they had provided information to all the specialists at Minatom, they probably would have thought three times before starting their tragic experiment at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant," the vice admiral reasoned.
>>65071091>For his part, engineer and physicist Ozharovsky believes that the K-431 disaster is less related to Chernobyl than to other incidents. The same mistakes as the reloaders in Chazhma Bay were made during the construction of the K-302 nuclear submarine at the Krasnoye Sormovo shipyard in Gorky in 1970. As with the accident in Primorsky Krai, the spread of radioactive substances throughout the city was not stopped.>"If the K-431 accident hadn't been shrouded in secrecy and the commission's findings had been publicly disclosed, nothing would have changed at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant," Ozharovsky asserts. "It's a rhetorical ploy: the nuclear workers would have said that the people there were incompetent and violated all the rules, while everything is fine here."
>>65071059>Many sailors from K-431 and PTB-16 were hospitalized. Some were urgently transported to Leningrad.Why does the USSR need multiple hospitals with facilities for acute radiation poisoning?
>>65071860>Why does the USSR need multiple hospitals with facilities for acute radiation poisoning?Because they monopolized the ARS market kekI think Mayak alone is responsible for like 90% of worldwide peacetime ARS deaths in history if i remember the previous threads right and their nuclear program probably outdoes the US double tap of Japan in terms of casualties
The Oscars were very cool boats. I've heard they were fairly good too, it's a shame there's not more public info on that kind of thing.
Best threads on /k/, I'd love to see more info come out about the Russian attempts to make irl project pluto. Has it actually been tested, and if so wouldn't we all know immediately because of the isotope release during flight?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M730_Burevestnik
>>65071860Actually they only had a couple of hospitals with radiation specialists and small wings to treat extreme radiation poising cases at the time of the Chernobyl event. But no where near enough for a mass casualty event. Hospitals in regions near nuclear power plants were equipped with some treatment facilities and staff who had some more than basic knowledge of radiation exposure.
>>65071080To add to anon's excellent narration of events, that pic shows the town of Dunay (former Shkotovo-22). The accident occurred to the right of the pic, about 1km away.https://www.academia.edu/78437799/Radioecological_Gis_for_Computer_Mapping_Radionuclide_Contamination_of_the_Areas_Under_the_Impact_of_the_Military_Industrial_Complex_Facilities
>>65071050>The political officer took refuge in his cabin on the floating barracks, drank alcohol to neutralize the radioactivity, and passed out. The remaining sailors began fighting for their ship and their lives.What. The. Fuck.
K-431 location at time of accident. Piers removed and many nearby facilities have been razed by the time this sat imagery was taken. I couldn't find any declassified photos of the area.
>>65072911The only way to make this more Russian would be if the officer shot a few conscripts before passing out
>>65072997but not without gay raping them first
>>65072911There was a real belief in the USSR that if you were exposed to radiation you should drink a shitload of vodka for six hours or so to purge the radiation from your system.
>>65072910>Strelok Gulf
>>65073360>>Strelok GulfIt's even better, the next big city is Artyom, and the lighthouse south of Dunay is called Mayak
>>65073755>the next big city is Artyomneat>and the lighthouse is called "Lighthouse"huh, who'd have thought
>>65073755Come to think of it, it'd be completely on point for the devs to put references to less-known Soviet nuclear disasters in a game about a Soviet nuclear-like disaster.
>>65073765>>and the lighthouse is called "Lighthouse"legit forgot this kek
>>65073025For once, i think the "gay" part is implied
>>65072946Here's some from 1984, the resolution sucks though
>>65071034> flew up to a height of two kilometers and crashed back onto the reactor, then fell onto the side of the submarine, rupturing the hull below the waterline. That just feels like added insult to injury at that point.
>>65071976Wasn't that one uranium mine from last thread (or maybe the one before that) worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined by itself?>>65071080>I think the approach was more frivolous.You don't fucking say
>>65074444checked, nice quads anon>Wasn't that one uranium mine from last thread (or maybe the one before that) worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined by itself?I wonder what the estimate for ARS death total for SovU/Russia must be. I honestly would not be surprised if it was approaching or even exceeding a million
>>65072946>>65074419Yeah, teh Soviets actually decommissioned that yard, tehy even tore up the rail line leading into the place. . .but left the one right across the bay and the one a few meters to the south completely untouched.And the city that is another few hundred meters to the south is also still there.In the modern sat pic, are those rusty tank-like things in the area to the top right containment vessels for decommissioned reactors?
>>65068334Definitely on my to read list when I get back to the old Oppy ones.Funnily enough, I did finish a book that featured an incident on an RN boat the author was on.>>65070508Bodging can be a factor in some cases (and occasionally admired even), but in the public sector it can be just as much driven by lack of funding to begin with. Insert quote of choice about the Treasury being "penny wise" or "the value of nothing" here.
>>65070316That was me, and it's because it separates the water molecules in your cells, which creates free oxygen radicals. H2O and H2O2 are very close, after all.
>>65074788Bodging is great when you're trying to get your shitbox Morris Minor to pass its MOT, less so when applied to nuclear fission
>>65072911>nuke sub that you're stationed on nearly gets ripped in half by the reactor cooking off and starts taking on waterI'd probably have a strong drink or ten as well, fuck that noise. The report to my commisar can wait.
everything good about the British Empire was autistic guys bodging stuff in a shed, from Anson and Wellington to Barnes Wallis and picrel
>>65073772Imagine a kino point and click dos adventure about documenting soviet nuclear horrors as a spy.
>>65072580>Has it actually been tested, and if so wouldn't we all know immediately because of the isotope release during flight?IIRC yes, in 2019 or 2020 they test ran the engine and killed a bunch of people when the traditional explosion followed by reactor fire and irradiation of a nearby town happened
>>65074419Thanks for this. I knew there had to be a pic. I spent some time searching the declassified Gambit database but couldn't find any.>>65074761Indeed it is. The Razboynik Bay long-term storage facility. Created in 2014 and largely funded by Japan. A Sept 2024 report states all used nuclear fuel has been removed from the area and sent to Mayak for reprocessing.https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/articles/more-than-200-russian-nuclear-submarines-have-been-dismantledI wonder if they also cleaned up a solid waste dumping site in the ocean nearby. I was reading something last night and it mentioned the russians dumped radioactive solid waste in waters somewhere NE of Chazhma for decades.
зoнa aвapии = Accident Zone
>>65073755>>65073765>LighthouseOn topic of lighthouses, i've run into an interesting one on streetview, Aniva lighthouse on Sakhalin, note that white inscription meaning "beware of radioactivity" because soviets powered it with an Strontium 90 RTG
>>65074986Indeed, hence there being little bodging involved in the causal factors (or even the on patrol repairs) of the incident on Revenge
I'm back. Don't ask.I didn't get a chance to finish this thought last thread, but I may as well bring it up here. I'm trying to get some decent offhand estimates for Windscale(which I'm convinced should be a INES 6, not 5). Due to the kit of the time and the general secrecy data on how spicy Seascale exactly was after the fire isn't well known, but I do have a handful of anecdotal accounts from one Leslie Thomas who was there.>1. Hot particles every 10 feet or so in Seascale. Little specks of Uranium oxide visible to the naked eye. Leslie found multiple hot spots in his yard and eventually took one in to cut up until he found a particle>2. The geiger counters at the time were from the electronics department/research and development department from his work and were a relatively new design at the time (mid 50s)>3. Using presumably the same equipment above, on October 11th 1957 during the Windscale fire he wiped off the bottom of his sons shoes after he played outside, which measured at 3500 counts per minute(he also specifies this was 6 times the legal at the factory and 50s era limits were pretty high) No mention of distance or equipment specifically though.>4. Using a newer piece of equipment(series-900 mini monitor) in 1989, the particle he grabbed in the 1950s was measuring about 80 counts a second at a distance of about an inch and while inside a glass slide. This was after over 30 years of decay. Obviously you can't directly convert counts to actual units especially since we don't know what exactly the 1950s geigar counter was or what was on his sons shoes. Maybe we could calculate how much that particle was giving off in 1989 and then rough backcalculate how hot it was back in the 1950s, but that's not easy either.But regardless none of it paints a pretty picture. Seascale probably should have been evacuated for a few weeks
>>65077136Something got screwed up here. One of those results is incorrect. Possibly both.>Maybe we could calculateWe can't. By 1989, the polonium would be long gone. The best that you can do is compare the two results and make some assumptions about how much cesium and strontium were in there, but again, at least one of those two results was incorrect by a significant margin.
>>65077476The two count numbers were measuring different things on different devices.One was a hot particle on a slide, the other was the wiping off his sons shoes
>>65077494I see. The earlier post was a little hard to follow.Looking back on it, if that particle was a tiny piece of fuel, I'd imagine that it could read somewhere around 4800 CPM fairly easily. I have a pack of tig welding rods downstairs that's hotter than that and they're only 2% thoriated. It's not uncommon to find pieces of Fiestaware that are hotter than this and people used to eat off of those. If this was a speck of uranium, you would not see any meaningful decay after 30,000 years, let alone 30. The only fission products from Windscale that are going to give significantly different levels after ~30 years (that will be around in amounts that can be measured) are the cesium and strontium, so any comparisons would have to be focused there.As for what was on his kid's shoes, we'll never know exactly. Whatever it was in 1957, it's not that today.
>>65077646It was spicy enough in the 1950s that regular geiger counters could find them buried in the dirt every 10 feet or so, and yeah a little black spec of Uranium oxide from fuel. The polonium would have made it hot as hell when fresh. It was still giving 80 counts a second (4800 a minute) in 1989 so it must have been VERY radioactive fresh out the chimney when the polonium was still there. Probably wouldn't want to breathe that in. As for his son's shoes, no detail other than it was wiped with a tissue and the tissue was what was measured, and he had been playing on grass outside in Seascale on October 11th. It couldn't have been hot particles though as even one hot particle would have been hotter than that, and I'm gonna trust the guys memory on this one given what a serious event it was. 3500 CPM would have had to be from other fission products not contained in the fuel itself, so I'm guessing free cesium and strontium and maybe I-131....albeit now that I'm typing this out a lot of 50s instruments couldn't detect alpha well unless made for that specifically so the 50s and 80s era numbers cannot be directly compared, I have zero clue what he would have gotten from the electronics department at Windscale Works in the 50s
Why don't we hear more about Indian accidents? Are they actually safe or do they just get covered up?
>>65077843India apparently runs a pretty tight ship when it comes to nuclear stuff.Same as their space program which is surprisingly austere, but competent and focused.Beyond that India suffers massively from third world 'not my fucking problem'-ism, especially when it comes to all kinds of public works.China is doing a similar thing, except they absolutely did cover up some bad shit. Not'reactor explodes' level of bad, but still bad.And China gets extra points for putting everyone who fucked up, got sick or was a witness into the Fun Rehabilitation Camp.
>>65077658>spicy enough in the 1950s that regular geiger counters could find them buried in the dirt every 10 feet or soThe problem that I have with this claim is that it would be very easy to even a hobbyist to find remnants of this today, but you don't hear anything about it. The government's claim is that most of the contamination was xenon and iodine, which would essentially be gone in less than a year. Existing conditions would seem to support the government's claim.> polonium would have made it hot as hell when freshIf you were reading alphas, which he may not have been. Did he record what instrument(s) he was using and how he was specifically operating them?>3500 CPM would have had to be from other fission products not contained in the fuel itselfWhy? The sample source on my old CD-V700 is a bit of depleted uranium, which in theory should have very little activity. It reads ~700 CPM. Any uranium ore vendor online will happily sell you a chunk of rock that reads up into the tens of thousands of counts per minute. It doesn't take much to get an interesting result.> a lot of 50s instruments couldn't detect alpha well unless made for that specificallyThat's true with modern instruments as well, not to mention dosimetry. And by "not well," I mean, "at all."
>>65066879IIRC they saw Cherenkov radiation with their eyes closed.
>>65078224The 1989 measurement was taken using a series-900 mini monitor.The tool in the 50s used to initially find the particle and then measure his kids shoes were from work (so from the Windscale Works) specifically the electronics department and were new for the era.Also my logic for that is the 1980s hot particle would have already produced a higher number than his sons shoes in 1957 so (barring one being alpha and one not) hot particles couldn't be the cause of his son's shoes reading
I can say with relative certainty that if Leslie's measurements were true and this happened today the town of Seascale would be evacuated at least for a while
>>65078543I also found testimony from Marjorie Higham, site chemist, who was measuring the hair of local kids who had been playing by the sea on October 11th, and it was pegging whatever instrument she was using (though, again, no clue what instrument so not very helpful) >>65078713Yeah putting this in the same tier as Three Mile Island is dumb
>>65078728From what I remember, the only reason TMI is level 5 is because of the evacuation of pregnant women and toddlers, any sort of evacuation is an automatic level 5. This is despite the fact that evacuation was largely done due to press rumors about a hydrogen bubble based on bad math and wasn’t needed at all in hindsight. It would be a Level 4 otherwise.Effectively it cares more about actions and cleanup measures regardless of how needed they were, which also means a lot of Russian fuckups look less bad because they didn’t give a shit. It also means spraying a lot of slightly bad stuff that gets everything like Fukushima is seen as worse than utterly ruining a local area to FUBAR levels like Kyshtym. Kyshtym didn’t have any light elements that could travel hundreds of kilometers and wasn’t on an ocean, so it’s rated lower despite the fact you’d be way more screwed close by there than at Fukushima
I've got a couple former coworkers that are full time employees at TMI now, pretty sweet gig.
>>65078543>The tool in the 50s used to initially find the particle and then measure his kids shoes were from workSo that should be documented somewhere. That's potentially an important piece of information.>my logic for that is the 1980s hot particle would have already produced a higher number than his sons shoes in 1957Your logic is faulty. Assuming that both samples are comprised of the same contaminants isn't advisable, particularly if one was a speck of uranium oxide as you claim and the other was dust.To return to what I said earlier, if so much contamination ended up on the ground that one person was reportedly finding another hotspot every ten feet, where is the rest of it? If you're convinced that Windscale was significantly worse than reported (and by extension, the UK covered it up), you're going to have to explain this. You're also going to have to explain why the net result on the surrounding population (in terms of lung cancer) was essentially a rounding error, and this during an era when nearly everyone smoked. While the UK didn't handle it as elegantly as it could have (and I understand why, and that "why" is both ironic and tragic) I'd argue that they handled it appropriately. The single most important thing that would have protected the public around Windscale without unnecessarily alarming them (or the US) was to get rid of all the milk, which they did. (And they even got rid of it correctly!)There's a saying in the business: dilution is the solution to pollution. A curie of po-210 is horrifically deadly as a point source, but spread it out over a few hundred square miles and you're going to have a hard time detecting it, never mind be hurt by it. The only thing that was released in large amounts was the xenon, and you deal with xenon basically by not worrying about xenon.So was Windscale a disaster? Yeah, wrecking that plant cost a lot of money. Did it harm the public? Not measurably.
>>65077136I had to re-watch that excellent documentary "Our Reactor Is On Fire" last night. They show the guy who found the radioactive particles on his sons shoes, hair, etc and they show the equipment used and samples he saved for decades. It's a segment between the 6 minute & 12 minute mark.
>>65079171https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcsyMvQtlKsother anon found the primary source for that
>>65079523>>65079348>>65079171Well the hot particle claim is definitely real, there it is on camera. Rest of it is just witness testimony26:20 to 28:30 is the shoe and hair stuff
There we go. Blink and you miss it(and I haven't found a scan of the original online), but there's the letter Leslie wrote to MG on his measurements, and it has some actually usable numbers.His garden had an average of 20 micro-curies per square meter of Beta and Gamma radiation right after the fire. Now that I can work with.
Is nuclear radiation really dangerous? I've never personally been harmed by any radiations.
>>65079605Always assume the story is less bad than you’ve been lead to believe.Unless it involves Russia or especially Mayak. Then it’s far worse
>>65071087>>The Chazhma accident demonstrated the dangers of small marine reactors and the dangers of nuclear fuel refueling, concludes Ozharovsky. The lessons of this accident are still relevant today, as nuclear submarines, surface ships—icebreakers, and the floating nuclear power plant—continue to operate. >ynr that 3 russian nuclear icebreakers have their already extended service life ending this year with nothing to get replaced with
>>65080299>ynr that 3 russian nuclear icebreakers have their already extended service life ending this year with nothing to get replaced withIs all right, comrade, they are floating RTGs whose radiation helps melt the ice. Is feature, not bug)))
>>65081053>they are floating RTGs whose radiation helps melt the ice.Kek, if you think about it nuclear icebreakers with their robust hulls, fuel for years and convenient way to get rid of the crew are perfect candidates for ghost ships/flying dutchman, supernatural or notIt's not like accidents on them didn't happen, the 2 accidents on the "Lenin" are responsible for their ingenious "without equal in the world" method of removing reactors from ships, by dumping them into the sea >it actually was a humane solution because it was so contaminated that they estimated more than 6500 people would exceed their yearly radiation doses doing it
>>65072580>According to Russian chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov, the missile flew 14,000 kilometres (8,700 mi) in a 15-hour flight, averaging 75% of the speed of sound, on 21 October 2025.[13][14] It is considered the first nuclear-powered missile and nuclear-powered aircraft.[15]It works. Further testing this year comrade
>>65079545That's 20 curies per sq km in Seascale of beta and gamma. Sounds really bad, but a lot of that is short lived isotopes. The amount that's Cesium-137 or Strontium 90 is probably only about 1 of those 20 curies. On the Chernobyl map it would be the orange area without any control needed. (albeit it being a breeder reactor you would get more plutonium and polonium than a standard reactor which are very nasty alpha wise, the actual effects living there and risking alpha exposure would be worse and probably a bit closer to the light pink on the map if you account for everything. A temporary evacuation would probably happen if this was happening today)
>>65081462>the missile flew 14,000 kilometres (8,700 mi)Oh god, it contaminated everywhere it flew over, didn't it?
>>65081481>A doctor at the Arkhangelsk Regional Hospital, who tested positive for the radioactive isotope cesium-137, was told at the medical center that it had appeared in his system after a trip to Thailand, Meduza reported, citing a colleague of his.>"At Burnazyan [Medical Center], my colleague tested positive for cesium. He's a young man, and his wife is pregnant. At the medical center, they asked him where he'd vacationed in recent years. He started listing his recent travels and said he'd once been to Thailand.>To this, they told him that Thailand is also Japan: 'You just ate a lot of Fukushima crabs there!'">The source insists that his colleague inhaled cesium-137 while treating victims at Nenoksa: "If he'd been warned, he would have worked just as responsibly, but he would have worn a respirator. If I hadn’t breathed in cesium, I would have thrown away my clothes and washed the particles off my skin.”
>>65081501>The Moscow Times was the first to report on the doctor tested positive for a radioactive isotope. The publication noted that the medics were not warned that the injured patients brought to the hospital were contaminated with radiation. The FSB forced them to sign non-disclosure agreements.>An explosion on an offshore platform in the White Sea near Severodvinsk occurred on August 8. The incident occurred during testing of a rocket engine with a radioisotope power source. Seven people were killed and several more were injured.>On the day of the incident, Roshydromet recorded a brief increase in radiation levels in the Severodvinsk area, but attributed it to the passage of a cloud of radioactive inert gases. A slight increase in background radiation was also recorded at a Norwegian station on the border with Russia.
>>65070670snibeti snab :DDDD
>>65079605Every second of your life, you're being harmed by radiation because everything is radioactive. The sun is radioactive, space is radioactive, your food is radioactive, and your very bones are radioactive. All of it is shooting tiny invisible particles through you and each of those particles is knocking electrons out of orbits and causing individual cells to go haywire.Now for the good part: millions of years of evolution have weeded out the life forms that couldn't withstand constant low levels of radiation. Your body has systems in place to handle this, and can actually handle quite a bit more than that. In fact, for those of us not so firmly wedded to the linear threshold theory so as to ignore contrary evidence, it appears that this low level radiation is very healthy for us for a variety of reasons, so don't worry too much about it. Again, you were born to tolerate this. Your ancestors that couldn't, didn't pass their genes on to you. Where people get hung up on this stuff is when they read enough to know a little of the lingo, but not enough to actually understand what's going on. Then you see people blogging about how their background went from 100 CPM to 200 CPM and it must be Fukushima, and we're all going to die!, all the while not realizing that their granite countertop is likely hotter than that. But I suppose that's true for every topic, isn't it?
>>65081538>5000mSomeone more versed in submarine lore correct me, wouldn't it have imploded at that depth? Or did the massive hole on the top equalise the pressure?
>>65082069I recognize this from the K-129 "Golf" incident in 1968. There is some testimony by people who were there that the interior bulkheads had collapsed and that the recovered section was basically a hollow tube but the lower 2 or 3 feet was made up of highly compact debris (walls, pipes, beds, wires, anything & everything, etc) that got crushed down.I'm not sure how they thought it looked like it was driven down and parked there as it was found in two pieces and laying on its side.
>>65081481It stuck to Novaya Zemlya, so nowhere that is of any concern. But I expect next stage of testing will be to ensure it pollutes everything it flies over, in good mother Russian fashion.
>>65082069Hull collapse occurs when the differential pressure (DP - giggity) is too great.If there's a means for enough sea water to enter the pressure hull before hull collapse depth, then the DP is lessened to the point where it never gets great enough to collapse the hull.In this instance the hull was blown apart as >>65082129 states, but internal watertight bulkheads that are usually rated to the same DP as the main(external) pressure hull held up until they exceeded their collapse depth, at which point they would have failed. Hull collapse takes place in less time than it takes for nerve impulses to travel from your eye to your brain, or pain to travel from your skin to your brain. It literally happens so fast you'd not know it had occurred. As the air is compressed so rapidly by the collapsing metal and rush of water, it'll ignite (just like in a diesel engine) right before the flood of water and metal squishes everything together.>Sir, we're on fire!>Don't worry sir, the flood has put the fire out! t. Submariner
>>65082300>it'll ignite (just like in a diesel engine)according to what little I found from one guy who publishes in a pay to access petroleum industry journal I'm not going to pay for, the sub's atmosphere turns into a superfluid and then a pretty spicy explosion as the cold water hits it. This is why so much of the debris recovered from the oceangate sub were charred
>>65071034Sounds like a bigger SL-1.
>>65081404Holy shit. So they just dump it in the ocean? Muscovites are so weird.
>>65082129That happens when rockets ignite while still in their launch tubes.
>>65082347Where better to dump a reactor than outside of the environment?
Soccer guy here. If the anon who requested it is around, K-19 ain't feeling so good.
>>65082347Dilution is the solution to pollution. It's irresponsible, but it's also a bigass ocean. If you're a on a third world budget with first world aspirations and you can't con another country into paying you to properly dispose of it, dumping it in the ocean is the safest cheap way to get rid of it.
>>65082434Not in the fucking ocean.
>>65082347they first defuel them and fill with bitumen like substances to prevent water ingress, this should be good for at least 100 years and then the activation products will decay enough to not be a problem even if it starts leaking
>>65082434You can only do that when the front falls off though.>>65082454Why not? So long as they tow it far enough out to sea....
>>65082454>>65082347>they just dump it in the ocean?everyone flushes a certain degree of nuclear waste in the oceanof course, we do it much less than the Russians, Indians, and Chineseditto with plastic waste and sewage
>>65082460>they first defuel them and fill with bitumen like substancesProofs they actually do and not just write and stamp they did and dump it raw because who the fuck's gonna check it before my tenure is over? We're talking about Russia, after all.
>>65082442positively glowing, great jobgotta say didn't expect so many anons voting for it, seems like divegrass and nuclear accidents have a surprising overlap>K19 killed several people before it even left the dock, six women poisoned by toxic fumes, two workers died in a fire and an electrician got eaten by the rocket hatch
>>65081404in that example they actually drop teh reactor onto the floating dock, tehn move teh dock out from under the ship. The reactor can then be stored safely, and the rest of teh ship scrapped normally.Most of them are stacked in some place near Murmansk, and another set is visible in that pic>>65072946Well, at least the idea was to store the reactors safely. US, EU and Japan have paid to store these reactors in a somewhat less catasophic fashion, because the Russian method was 'let them sit in a rusting sub'
>>65082712AFAIK some of the Atomflot reactors are in storage alongside the submarine reactors.So what they're doing is seal up the reactor, park the ship in a floating dock, cut out the reactor compartment, lower the floating dock so the reactor is moved out from under the ship, tow the ship to scrapping, stack the reactor in the storage area.They don't just dump the reactor overboard. Anymore.They did that in the 70s.
>>65083062>in that example they actually drop teh reactor onto the floating dock, tehn move teh dock out from under the shipThat pic from the installation of the new OK-900 reactors, the three old OK-150 got dumped in Tsivolki Bay on Novaya Zemyia, some 50m under water
>>65083062>some place near MurmanskIt's called Saida-Guba, one bay over from Polyarniy.
>>65083126Oh, tha was in the 60s.They dumped her reactors in the sea twice. because one melted and the replacement leaked coolant. Nice.
>>65083140>Oh, tha was in the 60s.that's why i wrote that they went with the humane solution, fully expected a phone call requesting 500 gulag inmatesGuess the civilian program wasn't as murderous as the military one, or they felt it would be going a bit too far for a reactor they wanted to replace anyway
>>65071034>"Water is a coolant and a moderator. After it evaporated, the nuclear reaction stopped. To some extent, this design limited the consequences of the accident."so what happens if you just dump your core in the ocean?
>>65084254too much water, and the reactor fizzlesthe whole science of a reactor is being able to run it without going out of control either way
>>65083926The military program just used soldiers for the refueling operations, so we will probably never know how horribly wrong things went.
>>65084254It would be extremely painful.All joking aside, nuclear power is surprisingly complicated when it's not surprisingly simple. I have no idea how seawater would affect reactivity vs. freshwater and I can't be bothered to research it, but I'd bet that it would reduce reactivity because generally speaking, anything that we're adding that isn't a neutron (or close to one) is going to negatively affect things. In any event, we have a fuel configuration and sufficient moderation to go supercritical, or we don't.Supercritical:>reactor continues heating until boiling water throttles it back or fuel rods get hot enough to melt into non-critical configuration>and we're doneSubcritical:>nothing happens>and we're doneOne way or another, it'll eventually work its way into a subcritical status. It will not blow up from this. The beauty of PWR's and BWR's is that at the end of the day, neither of them really want to be reactors. We have to painstakingly goad them to criticality and brutally whip them to keep them there, and they'll take every opportunity to go subcritical and cool down. If you want to blow one up, you'll need either deliberate effort or gross negligence. That's kind of an oversimplification, but it's accurate.>but what about the contamination?It's a bigass ocean. Again, all joking aside, if you take potentially harmful amounts of contaminants and dilute them enough, they're no longer harmful. The ocean is no stranger to uranium...that's where a good chunk of the Earth's supply is already located, and where we'll likely acquire the future's supply. The shorter lived and nastier isotopes will burn themselves out on a faster timeline, hopefully before the fuel cladding is broken. In the meantime, the seawater is fairly effective as shielding.
>>65085198>In the meantime, the seawater is fairly effective as shieldingYeah, the norwegians have pretty much confirmed this by regulary visiting some of the sunken soviet subs in their waters and measuring things.
>>65077002>soviets powered it with an Strontium 90 RTGThere were about 2500 more strontium 90 RTG's where those came from. They were used to power unmanned radio beacons and light houses along the arctic coast along with piles of other remote infrastructure. There was an on going clean up effort for a while, was. I think there are several hundred RTG's still waiting to become another "incident". And of course the Russians being Russian plan to make and deploy more (not sure if they have yet).
>>65085940>There were about 2500 more strontium 90 RTG's where those came from. They were used to power unmanned radio beacons and light houses along the arctic coast along with piles of other remote infrastructure. There was an on going clean up effort for a while, was.Yeah, even the most optimistic estimation was around a thousand, with half of that decommissioned by a joint US/EU effort but that stopped with the Crimea chimpout, so we're talking at least 500 RTG's laying around, maybe several times of that, some of which are already confirmed lostPicrel is one of the cases where the RTG was already gone by the time the the cleanup crew arrived, and there's probably a lot more gone since some wasn't visited by decades at this point>The elites don’t want you to know this but the RTG's in Russia are free you can take them home I have 458 RTG's
We need to find Plainly Difficult and get him to cover Annushka
>>65086688Statistics and probability would say There's more than one vatnik with a house warmed by a free bit of hot metal he found in an old soviet building. He puts the taste of metal down to the water he's drinking or the vodka he's distilled at home.
>>65086907>Statistics and probability would say There's more than one vatnik with a house warmed by a free bit of hot metal he found in an old soviet building. He puts the taste of metal down to the water he's drinking or the vodka he's distilled at home.I can absolutely believe it because i read a story of some retards that broke into an army warehouse, stole explosives and fucking ate them, thinking they were sausages >Didn't the taste tip you off that it's not meat?>We thought the vodka was badI think the dog puking was what made them reconsider
Kyle Hill did a Windscale video and uh...>Claims it was the first nuclear disaster to expose the public to radiation (Ignoring Kyshtym and Annushka, and if he meant "First known to the public" that's Chalk River)>Writes off the hot particle issue as 'no big deal' despite having another video talking about what a problem they could be compared to regular contamination. 20 curies per square kilometer isn't nothing. >Blames the second Wigner release for the fire, ignoring the fact that was political spin to blame the operators and a second investigation years later concluded the fire has already started in 2053 and the wigner release just hid it for a while and then lead to the fans being cranked up spreading it>They did not immediately realize the pile was on fire, instead initially blaming a burst cartridge, cranking the fans again, and making it worse >Says the filters prevented most of the fallout, they were in bad shape and caught less than half of it>Says no cancers or cancer deaths occurred, completely ignoring the fact polonium is absurdly nasty on the body and breathing in a hot particle is a great way to get lung cancer. >In general his cancer math is entirely focused on Thyroid Cancer tied to I-131(which the milk bans largely helped dodge) and external doses, NOT on the possibility of people breathing in or consuming hot particles which was the exact thing that killed people at Berdyanish(feel free to post this exact post screenshotted on his subreddit, I like Kyle Hill and I'd love him to visit these threads so we could tell him about Annushka)
>>65087282I don't have a reddit account, but he does have a subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/KyleHill/
>>65087282>political spin to blame the operators>like every accidentAlso, Kyle Hill is not doing his cause any favors by just ignoring the systemic mismanagement and corner cutting that results in meltdown and totally-safe-releases-dude-trust-meAll industries go through that phase, but if a reactor pops it's a bit more permanent than flooding a town witha a spot o' the ol' phosgene
>>65087398He is really really good at dealing with newer nuclear shit like TMI or the base concepts, but I have noticed he tends to undersell the magnitude of really early military nuclear fuckups
>>65087436>>65087398>>65087300Hill's a plagiarist. If you want Annushka to get a video go find Plainly Difficult or maybe Fascinating Horror
>>65086907>Statistics and probability would say There's more than one vatnik with a house warmed by a free bit of hot metal he found in an old soviet building.Not for very long though, I've searched a bit about stolen RTG's in Russia and in several resloved cases the stories go like this>the RTG source was found in [random location like a bus stop], the metal thieves were not found, but are presumed dead kekHere's one example story>March 12, 2003. Russia, Leningrad region, Cape Pikhlisaar, near the village of Kurgolovo On the shores of the Baltic Sea, a RTG that provided power to the lighthouse was looted. >Non-ferrous metal hunters who destroyed the generator carried away about 500 kilograms of stainless steel, aluminum and lead, and dropped a radioactive source of strontium-90 on the ice 200 meters from the lighthouse. >A hot capsule with strontium melted the ice surface and sank to the bottom of the sea. >In this case, the dose rate of gamma radiation was more than 30 R/h. >It should be assumed that the kidnappers received lethal doses of radiation.
>>65087282>first nuclear disaster to expose the public to radiationObviously incorrect.> hot particle issue as 'no big deal' It's not. A bunch of hot particles would be a big deal, but evidently they don't exist. I'm beginning to have my doubts about "the" particle if I'm going to be honest. That shouldn't have made it through the filters, which are the reason why we don't have a bunch of hot particles all over the place, only the one.>political spin to blame the operatorsWhile we'll never know cause for certain, the cause was the AM cartridge in hole 20-53. You can bet the house on that. The reason why the operators were blamed was because Bill Penney, the man responsible for all the corner cutting, insane production demands, and downright dangerous design decisions (like the Mark III AM cartridge in hole 20-53 mentioned previously) was the chairman of the inquiry committee and he wasn't about to blame himself. (Also it was rather easy to blame the operators due to the absolute retardation of their anneal process and how badly monitored the pile's temperatures were *by design*.)>did not immediately realize the pile was on fire, instead initially blaming a burst cartridgeThey were correct to assume that, given what their instruments (which again, were insufficient to the task) were telling them. People today explaining how they would have done things differently are doing so with the benefit of knowing what the problem would be before it began.> the filters prevented most of the fallout, they were in bad shape and caught less than half of itIncorrect. Disregarding the xenon (because again, the way to deal with xenon is to not worry about it), the filters caught most of the contamination. By happy accident, they even caught over half of the iodine, which they were not designed or expected to do.1/2
>>65087282>no cancers or cancer deaths occurred, completely ignoring the fact polonium is absurdly nasty on the body and breathing in a hot particle is a great way to get lung cancerYou do realize that both of these things can simultaneously be correct, right?>his cancer math is entirely focused on Thyroid Cancer tied to I-131(which the milk bans largely helped dodge) and external doses, NOT on the possibility of people breathing in or consuming hot particles which was the exact thing that killed people at BerdyanishExcept that they didn't have a spike in deaths like they did in Berdyanish. This is one of the key things that gets overlooked with Windscale sometimes...if truly dangerous amounts of crud got dumped all over the countryside as some allege, where are the deaths?Also, he (and the British government) were right to focus on the iodine. It was the biggest and most immediate threat to public health. The xenon didn't matter, the uranium was more dangerous as a toxic heavy metal than as something radioactive, and the amount of polonium released was a rounding error. Iodine should have been, and was, the focus.2/2
>>65086939They probably grabbed the ones marked Ryazan Sugar.
>>65066879>SeizuresI assume his braincells were literally just getting zapped in real time by that stage
>>65066895I don't understand Russia, really. They dish out these megamind genius mathematicians, computer scientists, chemists, etc. but then shit the bed monsterously on the quality control
>>65088888Checked
>>65088739>Berdyanishstory?
>>65081477>Famines in the 1920s >40% of population massacred in WWII>Radiation poisoning I'm amazed any life still exists in Belarus, Jesus
>>65088894Easily explained.The vast majority of people follow the money, and behave in ways that are rewarded by society. Russia has basically always adopted central economic planning, which means rewards for good work is decided by a panel of bureaucrats rather than by meritocracy-driven natural demand. In any such system, if those bureaucrats make good decisions and reward people for good behaviour, we get a benevolent dictatorship and a booming society. If those bureaucrats do not make good decisions and do not reward good behaviour, or indeed reward bad behaviour, people adjust their behaviour accordingly.In the USSR, quality control and innovation* was not rewarded. Kissing Party ass was. Hence, quality control and innovation became worse and worse. The small numbers of scientists they did have dwindled because successive generations saw that they would not be rewarded commensurately for new inventions.*this may be alien to Americans who are used to living in a society with great respect for entrepreneurship and easy access to capital and debt, but in very many countries, nobody wants to come forward with an innovation or new improvement, because they know they will barely get so much as a pat on the back let alone be rewarded for it. their boss will simply take the credit for themselves. or the venture capitalist or bank whom they approached for a loan will reject their application, and then start their own business with the idea they stole. super common.
>>65087282Not a fan of that guy or his content. I believe people give him too much credit for what he produces and it's going to his head. When I seek details, his and all the AI ones I avoid.
>>65088571I had to look this up.>1999>Leningrad region.>An RTG was found ravaged by non-ferrous metal looters. The RHS core was found emitting 1000 R/h of radiation at a bus stop in the town of Kingisepp. It was recovered by a Radon radioactive materials disposal team.Yikes! How long was it there I wonder.
>>65088923No idea. Anon that I replied to mentioned it. I'd assumed that it was one of any number of Soviet communities that experienced an increase in "unexplained" radiation-related illnesses following a safe release of radiation. You can substitute any number of names for that one and have the same result. Even in a society that's constantly trying to keep secrets, it's hard to keep something like that a secret.
>>65090906Village about 9 clicks downwind of Kyshtym, took about a week to evacuate. You can find interviews with old ladies talking about neighbor kids who died of bloody diarrhea in the weeks following the evacuation.
>>65090906>>65090982Found the excerpt>Measurements in the contaminated area were carried out by special teams, which, in addition to dosimetrists, included KGB officers and soldiers. One of the participants, S.F. Osotin recalled “Together with other dosimetrists, we carried out an evacuation from the village of Berdyanish. People were washed, the contamination of livestock, things, and residents was determined. The village of Berdyanish, like the villages of Saltykovo and Galikayevo, was subjected to the greatest contamination. Residents of these settlements had to be evacuated immediately...">When we arrived in the village of Berdyanish, people were living a normal life. Children were running around the village carefree, having fun. We approached them with a device: "I can accurately determine with this device which of you ate more porridge." The children gladly exposed their stomachs. The "field" emitting from each child's stomach was 40-50 μR/sec... The cows were extremely "dirty." The soldiers drove them into silo pits and shot them, which had an extremely depressing effect on the people. The soldiers destroyed all the houses and outbuildings, burying the remains in trenches. It was very difficult to evacuate the population from their native village.>The village of Berdyanish was mainly inhabited by Bashkirs. A lot of effort had to be expended to destroy the "dirty" clothes and utensils of the residents. People tried to prove that there was no "dirt" on the clothes, pots and pans..." That's straight from the cleanup crew. The reports of deaths aren't strictly recorded in the record, but you can find a couple witnesses in 90s era documentaries insisting kids and animals died shitting blood and losing weight. If so it would be the only cases of ARS to occur off-site in any nuclear plant incident
>>65090984>kids emitting 180 mR/hr from their stomach contentsJesus fucking Christ. Just when I think that the Russians can no longer surprise me, they surprise me again.Okay, let's talk a little inside baseball for people that don't work around this shit. Where I'm at, 180 mR/hr would be considered a hot spot. That doesn't mean that the work can't be done, but it potentially changes dosimetry requirements and part of the prejob brief will be someone asking me, "So Anon, about that hot spot...what are you planning on doing to minimize your exposure to it?" And if I don't have a good answer, the job will be shut down and I'll be told, in very professional terms, that I'm a stupid asshole and that I probably shouldn't be in this line of work. If you're not someone that works in this trade, you wouldn't be allowed anywhere near it.Now for some more inside baseball. That poor Russian kid that ate the hot spot? He's getting 180 mR/hr right in the guts. Assuming that it's primarily gamma radiation with a quality factor of 1, and assuming a gut transit time of 36 hours (conservative for a kid) and that this isn't an isotope that the body will absorb like iodine, he's looking at a total internal dose of just shy of 6.5 Rem...meaning that as long as he doesn't eat any more of that porridge and gets the fuck out of that town, he'll be absolutely fine with no medical treatment required. That's a dose that I'm not legally able to get in one year, but he'll get it in 36 hours and live a long and healthy life afterwards. Context is important in most things, but especially in nuclear things. We tend to be extremely conservative with how we do things.>"we" specifically excludes the soviets because that was, and apparently still is, the goddamn wild fucking west
>>65091038>Assuming that it's primarily gamma radiation with a quality factor of 1I found the tank content graph. It wasn’t
>>65091077Just from a quick glance that’s gonna be mostly beta, but there’s gonna be gamma and alpha too
>>65090696Kingisepp is actually a different one, they were multiple cases in the Leningrad region alone, in Kingisepp's case they identified the perpetrators, at least the 3 that died, that is In the other cases, it's basically >will you search for the thieves>nah, the're toast anywayKingisepp has 2 funny things about it though, one is that they managed to get it 50km away from the crime scene which is sort of an achievement in itself, and the second is the question if they carried it by bus a part of it, because why the fuck would you even toss it out there? So passengers waiting for the bus can warm themselves? Here's another story i found from Tolyatti, the city known for the Lada factory and associated mafia warsJuly 12, 1984. USSR, Kuibyshev Region, Tolyatti. During an inspection of the radioactive level gauges at the Kuibyshevfosfor Production Association, one was found missing. The investigation revealed that in June 1983, two trainee mechanics had stolen a container containing a cesium-137 radioactive source. They brought it to the workshop and sawed it in half. Finding nothing valuable inside, the trainees threw the stolen item into a corner and brushed the spilled powder onto the floor. It was then scattered across the workshop along with debris and dust. For a year, unsuspecting workers were exposed to radiation from the contaminated equipment and materials. In the staff locker room, the radiation dose rate reached hundreds of mR/h, and on the floor of the ill-fated workshop up to 1 R/h. As a result, the kidnappers received radiation burns to their hands, and more than 20 workers were found to have internal contamination of the body with cesium-137
>>65091160>Here's another story i foundwhere the fuck are you getting these, anon?
>>65091077Yeah, that's not great. 0/5 stars would not recommend ingesting this porridge.>ce-144 and pr-144I'm curious where they got this number. Calculated value based on decay products?But it gets more interesting than that. Their readings from the children were gammas, not betas or alphas. Without doing the math, I have some questions about this story now.
>>65091175translator anons efforts motivated me enough to put my hazmat suit on and venture out on the glowing russian internet myselfThe stories are from an old russian article from 2008, focusing on orphaned sources, with the bulk being stuff everyone ITT already knows like Lia or Goiania but the russian accidents seemed less known on the english net, because i sure would remember reading about two trainee retards irradiating their whole workshop kekHere's the last 2 interesting ones, with yet another RTG October 29, 2001. Russia, Chita Region, Krasnokamensk. On the night of October 29-30, a unit containing a cesium-137 gamma-ray source with an activity of 0.8 Ci was stolen from a hydrometallurgical plant. It was part of a radioisotope level gauge. Three days later, following an extensive search and rescue operation, the unit was found 20 kilometers from the city of Krasnokamensk on the Krasnokamensk-Kailustui highway, on the slope of a hill in a rocky slope. Experts estimate that the thieves of the radioactive source may have received significant doses of radiation (Kuznetsov, 2003).November 12, 2003. Russia, Kola Bay, Olenya Bay. The Hydrographic Service of the Northern Fleet of the Russian Navy discovered a disassembled RTG during a routine inspection of navigational aids. All its components, including the protective casing made of stainless steel, lead, aluminum, and depleted uranium, were stolen. The radioisotope heat source—a capsule containing strontium-90—was found in water near the shore at a depth of 3 meters. It posed a high radiation hazard, with a surface radiation rate of approximately 1,000 R/h. Experts believe the non-ferrous metal hunters who disassembled the RTG likely died or became seriously ill as a result of radiation exposure.
>>65091494>>65091038No it's real, it just means the actual internal dose is way higher since all the alpha and most of the beta isn't gonna be on the porridge meter, just the gamma and maybe a lil bit of beta. Which would fit the anecdotal reports of kids dying after being relocated with bloody diarrhea. The real numbers(equivalent anyway accounting for internal dose and the alpha multiplier) were probably closer to 100 rads a day
>>65091077My very very sloppy math says roughly 25-30% of the radiation is coming from gamma, 70-75% from beta, and at most 1% from alpha.Now given these are small kids maybe like, 1 in 20 beta particles is getting out of them, so I'm gonna be generous and assume 30% of the radiation is being measured. So like, 600 milliR an hour to 720 milliR an hour. A couple of those are from alpha, not many, but those need like 20x so effectively anywhere from 650 to 820. So somewhere from 15-20 REM per day. Is internal beta weighted at all? I've seen some sources say it should be doubled in effective dose compared to external gamma, but it's not consistent like alpha is so I dunno. And if I screwed something up it could be less worse or more worse
>>65091038And what's the kid's prognosis if it's mostly beta radiation not being picked up on the meter?
>>65066017Anyone wanna join me in the ball pit?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKsb_0O4daU&t=6828sGood close-up starting at 1:48:00
>>65090906kek>>65090982>>65090984thanks
>>65091651>with the bulk being stuff everyone ITT already knows like LiaJust in case anyone doesn't know about Lia, this video has a pretty good dive into it, along with actual video of the recovery operation.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT8-b5YEyjo
>In 2001, three radiologists at a Samara hospital were testing pipeline welds using iridium-197. >After work, someone forgot to place a powerful radiation source in a protective container. >The batteries in the dosimeter died, so they couldn't measure background radiation. >The equipment was loaded into a truck, where the people ate and slept. The next morning, all three developed nausea and vomiting (signs of radiation sickness), but the radiologists attributed the symptoms to poisoning. >The radioactive source was discovered only a week later. >The hapless specialist picked it up with his bare hands and placed it in a protective container, suffering severe radiation burns.>A year later, during a routine medical examination, it was discovered that other medical workers had experienced radiation doses ranging from 100 to 300 rads.
>>65091882>At the employees' work location on the loading level, the dose rate was a maximum of 0.022 mSv/h near the ground above the open borehole. Dose rate values of slightly more than 10 mSv/h were now measured at the chamber ceiling. Inside the chamber, a maximum dose rate of 167 mSv/h (millisieverts per hour) was measured near the barrel coneCan someone who knows how bad it is, tell us how bad that is?I do enjoy that they simply just dump it all in a pit and call it a day
>>65092265Here, have a 166 page read on the event by the group who recovered the orphaned source.https://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/Publications/PDF/Pub1660web-81061875.pdfI'm sure i've seen a documentary on the recovery somewhere years ago and it wasn't one of these youtube guys channels.
>>65092265The thing about the Lia, Georgia event is that there had to be other victims other than those 3. The 2 radioactive sources they found were on the dirt road already out of their containment structures. As I understand it only 6 of the 8 RTG's were found and decomissioned after the cessation of a dam construction project in the area, and the remaining two were missing. The 2 sources found by the firewood pickers were the hearts of the two missing RTG's.
>>65093790>I do enjoy that they simply just dump it all in a pit and call it a dayProbably better than dumping it in the ocean. I seem to recall barrels of low-level nuclear waste being dumped off New York in the 1970's. By the late 80's the barrels were corroded and leaking if not outright burst open.
>>65093966Probably wouldn't make any difference to the average NY resident in the 80s
>>65093790>how badAs an American I was trained on rem and find sieverts offensive, so bear with me as I answer in rem.>2.2mR/hrTechnically a high rad area but no big deal.>1R/hrPassing through is fine, but don't dawdle. If you're planning on spending a few days there, prepare yourself for ARS.>16.7R/hrYour time to ARS is now measured in hours, not days. Plan accordingly if you're going to be in the area.
>>65093790From a containment perspective, it's pretty OK for the 1970s. It's still fucking stupid, but they needed the cheap and easy storage solution to sell their cheap and easy nuclear power lies.
>>65094632What can you tell us about how screwed those kids at Berdyanish were
>>65093934>The thing about the Lia, Georgia event is that there had to be other victims other than those 3As the cops in charge of the other cases would say>It should be assumed that the kidnappers received lethal doses of radiation.I just wonder why they didn't bother checking the hospitals for radiation burns like in Tolyatti, seems like the sources were easily spicy enough for it, in the Tolyatti case you could even see by the burns where one of the retards wiped his hands on his pants (not that it helped them much, they escaped punishment due to being in the army at the time but were soon discharged with radiation sickness) Probably it's sign they're really toast, since a longer sickness is more likely to catch attention of some bright doctor, while "local drunkard metal thief keels over after puking" is an average Tuesday and wouldn't raise any eyebrows Theft isn't even the only threat, a lot of the RTG's were installed in a such haphazard way that nature might destroy them sooner, or as in the case of IEU-1 RTG located on Cape Navarin in Chukotka, some raindeer herders might crash into it with an ATV, damaging it enough it had to be covered with a makeshift sarcophagus for 7 years till they got around to recover it
>>65088819kek
>>65091788Not optimal.>>65095178In order to take a guess at that, we need to make a number of assumptions. If we go by >>65091721 (and there's no reason not to unless you want to do some very dull calculations, although I disagree with his opinion of how much beta is getting out), we have a rough hourly rate. Now a few other assumptions:>36 hour gut transit time, although it can be quite a bit more or less than this depending on individual and diet>none of it's going to be left in the body (my experience is almost entirely with cobalt, a bit of zinc, and a few lulzy interactions with radon, so I'm not qualified to comment on the uptake of this weird russian shit)This gives us...about 30R, give or take. Is that a lot? Yes, it's a lot. Most radiation workers won't see anything close to that as a cumulative dose over their entire career. Is it dangerous? That depends on who you ask. Will you get any symptoms from this? Probably not, and if you did your first guess wouldn't be ARS. You'd probably think that you were coming down with a cold or ate a questionable taco. It's hard to tell though. Again, we're making a lot of assumptions here, and if you dig into enough exposure incidents you'll start to see that some people are just real sensitive to radiation, and some people aren't.I feel confident in stating that if those kids were shitting blood and dying, they got a *lot* more than this.
>>65095987Quick addition: those betas might be hot enough to cause beta burns. I'd imagine that this wouldn't be a pleasant experience in your GI tract, but this is something that I fortunately have no experience with. With what I do, we're really only concerned with gammas. Someone else might know more.I retract my statement about the kids getting a lot more. This might have been enough to do the job.
>>65095987Would it be a one time dose if they were like, farmers who spent a lot of time outside and played on the grass and were eating more contaminated crops? Wouldn't it be more constant(plus obviously a smaller exterior dose too)>>65091777interesting
>>65095987Cerium has a half life in the body of 190 days and tends to stay in the skeleton and liver based on studies in dogs. Rutheium leaves the digestive tract quickly, but can stay in the lung for a year. ZR95 half of it leaves and around half will end in skeleton for a while. And obviously you know what cesium and strontium do
>>65096446I'd assume that after the nice men with the Geiger counters were seeing levels on children's abdomens as a result of what they ate, the children wouldn't be allowed to eat that stuff anymore and hopefully everyone would be packed up and moved someplace else. But, you know, Russia.To answer your question directly, if they stayed where they were and kept living their lives the same way, after a matter of days you'd be well into ARS and eating contaminated porridge would no longer be an issue, as you wouldn't be able to keep it down by that point.
>>65097047>But, you know, Russiaso we all know they died within weeks
Patent from 2011 in Chinese>Nuclear implosive fluid piston two-stroke engine for power generation, irrigation of the Gobi desert, and production of combustible gasseshttps://patents.google.com/patent/WO2013063860A1/enIt has drawings of other designs with the same ideahttps://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2013063860
>>65074788A lot of bodging is time constraint based as well. Not necessarily just money (I think institutional bodging is money but low level "tactical" bodging is time based). Bureaucracy infests and delays everything here.>>65082069You see comrade, if submarine already full of water it cannot implode>>65082434>>65082542https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM>>65097192Is this another "throw shit at the wall until it sticks" patent/paper? it sounds retarded to me.
>>65097260retarded nuclear concepts are cool though
>>65097192this feels like a nigger-rigged fusion reactor, and sounds about 16% as feasible as the Project Orion spacecraft
>>65097047My point was they had already been there for days by the time the geigar counter men came >>65097056There's an anecdotal report of someone who's kid found a dark patch of material in their back area, playing in the dark dust, ate something covered in it, and was dead within at week at Berdyanish.
>>65098326>There's an anecdotal report of someone who's kid found a dark patch of material in their back area, playing in the dark dust, ate something covered in it, and was dead within at week at Berdyanish.I've read somewhere that during one of the earlier fuckups they told the villagers it was a coal boiler explosion and roped them in into the clean up effort equipped with rags and shovels and no protective gear whatsoeverUsually I would discard both of those stories as exaggeration, but fuck, for Mayak they're not even particularly grimThere was a russian lawyer that represented the victims of Mayak, Nadezhda Kutepova, (who unsurprisingly had to flee the country after being labelled a foreign agent already in 2017) and the reason she got into this was her grandmother dying after 5 years of work at the plant as a chemical engineer. If they didn't even give a shit about the rare specialists with clearances to work at such a top secret plant, than what chances did regular workers or villagers have
>>65070656The companion book by Peter Huchthausen looked at the real story behind the dramatized movie and I thought was a genuinely good book about Soviet submarine disasters, might be what >>65066903 is after, though admittedly K-19 and a few other nuclear related incidents are only part of the story and the rest ranges from collisions to bad damage control practices
>>65099417>I've read somewhere that during one of the earlier fuckups they told the villagers it was a coal boiler explosion and roped them in into the clean up effort equipped with rags and shovels and no protective gear whatsoeverwe saw how it happened in the Chernobyl incidentpeople hushed up the true nature of the incident for a variety of reasons - shame, personal job security, national security, international loss of face - and cleanups were ordered without taking antirad measures
>>65066879so they were there TO steal the cobalt? like, they knew about it, but nothing about it? how?
>>65099927nah, i bet they were after the delicious copper and other metals in it, like in the several other theft cases Not like they wouldn't try to sell the cobalt for scrap too, like we've seen in Taiwan or MexicoThere's a chance they went specifically for the cobalt though, the copper being only a bonus, it simply turned out way too hot too handle for them, because at the time there were several cases of murders using radioactive sources in russia, hidden in chairs, truck doors etc
>>65099927>>65100671I forgot to mention, there's also a chance they stole it with the intention to sell it/ give it to Chechen separatists, Shamil Basayev's group supposedly tried to do dirty bombs twice before, both ending in failure though The first time in 1995 with a caesium-137 source in Izmailovsky Park in Moscow (looked more like a publicity stunt), and the second time in 1998 in Argun near Grozny which was discovered and defused before it could blow up
>Nuclear fuckupsMost of these are overblown by big oil and their golem.
>>65100859Rule of thumb: It's less bad than you were told, unless it's a Russian accident, then it's worse than you were told, unless it's Mayak, than it's even worse than you imagined
>>65079605Around radiation, never have hesitation
>>65100983And then there's China and North Korea with not a peep. Even India has incidents though nothing too serious like Bhopal. I almost want to believe the Chinese and the norks have figured out nuke safety that well, and given Best Korea's size I can believe it, but there's no way China has perfected nuclear power, especially given their history.
>>65101098North Korea's plutonium reactor isn't some mystery, it's the original MAGNOX design that was designed in 1954. 1-1 copy of the reactor at Calder Hall and Chapelcross.
>>65101098In China, everyone involved with the accidents gets a free forever vacation in the northwestern deserts before sadly passing away.If there are no victims, no operators who made mistakes and no managers/party officials who cut corners, there is no accident!
>>65081501>To this, they told him that Thailand is also Japan: 'You just ate a lot of Fukushima crabs there!'"Oh Russia, you are a handful
New Mission Anons: Track down a nuclear youtuber and convince them to come here so we can get a video made on the Annushka Meltdowns(maybe even two videos, one for the two partial meltdowns in 1948 and one for the big one in 1949). Plainly Difficult or Kyle Hill are the ideal targets, but Bluejay, Fascinating Horror, Mr Ballen, and Solve are all close enough. Talk them into coming here, and then we can show them what we've dug up
>>65101098>And then there's China and North Korea with not a peep.As long as you don't go full Chernobyl, you can keep a lot of shit under wraps Kyshtym took almost twenty years until the truth came out, so I'll bet there have been several accidents in china, albeit probably not on kyshtym scale (but then again, what is?)I wonder if checking for the prevalence of specific cancer types (like leukemia or sarcoma) in the dozens of cancer villages in China could give a lead to where shit went down
>>65105587I reckon they’ve both had Level 4’s and China might have had a Level 5 in a sub or something, but they take nuclear safety very seriously. China banned building reactors inland after Fukushima to ensure if something went wrong most of the radiation would go out to sea
>>65105953>I reckon they’ve both had Level 4’s and China might have had a Level 5 in a sub or something, but they take nuclear safety very seriouslyProbably doesn't count as an accident since they didn't give a shit about the casualties in the first place but Chinas biggest fuckup might be the Lop Nur nuclear testsSupposedly over a million people were hit by the fallout with 190k dying to illnesses linked to it, however those numbers might be wonky because they were calculated by a Japanese physicist researching radiation effects from nuclear tests who wasn't let into China proper so he had to work with data from Kazakhstan
>>65091175He's communicating with Satan. Every fucking nuclear thread "oh you never heard THESE 40 nuclear circus fuck-fuck tales from the soviet union". You'd think it might run out one day but no.
>>65099927Perhaps they just knew it was Cobalt, not Cobalt-60.
Today is the 40th anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster. Without it, I don't think we'd have such a fascination with nuclear disasters in the public eye, so in a roundabout way these threads owe their existence to it. Here's to all the poor souls who lost their lives or were affected.
>>65099927>>65107873>Perhaps they just knew it was Cobalt, not Cobalt-60.Keeping in mind that thieves are, in general, extremely stupid; I'll posit that it's even simpler than that. They knew it was very well guarded, which to them meant it must be very valuable.
>>65066017Should Europe start making their first independent nuclear deterrence?Quoting that jap (mutt) claiming no nuke may fly from Europe without US approval : >>>/pol/533913086>no one in europe can just launch nukes on their own without daddy US approval and this ain't gonna be given>>>/pol/533913768>france is integrated into NATO command structures, you really think they'd be allowed to act on their own? good luck doing that without US intel, satellites, targeting data and so on... and we're not gonna give them permission, they can't do shitis he right?
>>65108534>is a mutt behind a jap VPN on teh epstein-qanon-self-trollling designeted bait board rightProbably not.France spent billions to maintain a seperate and sovereign deterrent. Claiming that this is all fake and not true reeks of Russian and Chinese bot spam.
>>65108203And it keeps taking lives to this day, primarily from a certain group of retards who dug trenches near it>>65108447One of the threads mentioned something about one of chechen warlords needing radioactive materials for a dirty bomb, maybe that was the case here?
>>65109115Probably not, you can't really do much dirty-bomb-wise even with one very highly active cobalt source from one of those systems.
>>65108203Flashback to Prototype in Idaho.
I should have stayed and study radiological chemistry.
>>65108534No. Both the UK and France are completely sovereign as far as launch authority goes and that chain of command is national, not through NATO. The UK builds their own warheads but lease the launch platforms off the US. The missiles are from a co-mingled stock to prevent any tampering or kill switch shenanegans and once they're on the UK boats they are out of US control. If the UK PM says launch, they get launched.
>>65109115The problem with dirty bombs (especially co-60) is when you set it off, the dangerous part gets dispersed into a far less dangerous configuraiton. If you accumulate enough of it to really harm a lot of people by dispersing it...well, you don't, because you die during the process of accumulating that much. But if you had a robot do it for you, the resultant mass of cobalt would be so thermally hot due to decay that it would destroy the HE component of your bomb. If you reduce the amount to the point where you can actually assemble and transport the bomb to where it's needed without killing too many of your people and/or the bomb going off en route, the detonation will disperse the contaminants enough to make them far less dangerous than they were while all together.And that's the irony of the (not thorium) dirty bomb meme. The safest way to get rid of one is to dig a very deep hole and bury it. The second safest way to get rid of one is to detonate it. They're a threat because they scare people, not because they kill people.
>>65109511>one very highly active cobalt sourceApparently one case with nine 27,000 curie sources.https://web.archive.org/web/20211006132919/https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/criminal-dies-stealing-radioactive-material/But this makes it sound like it was a bunch of retards rather than anything organized. And I guess some other retards died in 2003 trying to steal more of it? A quick search doesn't yield any sources for that claim. But I'm not an expert in the field.https://iwpr.net/global-voices/chechnyas-ticking-radiation-bomb
>>65110255I feel like you'd do more damage just sending a martyr to go drop chunks in random public corners and buildings and shit rather than an explosive or anything. That's what the rare actual cases of this usually did
Meet the "Mining and Chemical Combine" in Zheleznogorsk (also known as Krasnoyarsk-26) famous for a "without equal in the world" method dealing with nuclear waste>just inject it into a cavern or something lolAbout 1 billion curies worth of waste was dealt with this wayObviously this isn't even the biggest problem of the people living there, of the 3 reactors used to produce weapons grade plutonium, the first 2 were open cycle, because fuck them people downstream Luckily the third was put online in 1964 with a closed loop and they could stop the first two, which they did in fucking 1992The "Mining and Chemical Combine" claims that only a short, narrow part of the Yenisei is polluted at worst, which sort of contrasts with the fact that one of the most contaminated spots is Gorodskoi Island some 200 miles downstream from the factory.What's more the guy measuring it found several hot particles, suggesting some more serious fuckup>The combine spokesman said the factory believed the contamination was caused by "natural uranium" in the waters of the Yenisey that passed through the reactors and turned into plutonium.
>>65111947This is the third one I always forget about. Mayak and Tomsk are the two easier to remember ones
>>65111947>open cycle plutonium breeder reactors How. Just fucking how do you arrive at this and go 'Yes this is a good iea let's do this'Luckily these guys never got close to the space program.>the third was put online in 1964 with a closed loop and they could stop the first two >which they did in fucking 1992just let it run for another 28 years lmaoShit like this is why we can't have nice things.
>>65112333>Tomsk"initial clean-up operations were able to collect and remove about 577g of plutonium from the area around Tomsk-7. Interestingly enough, only about 450g of plutonium had been present in the basin before to the explosion, suggesting unreported prior plutonium leaks from the facility"
>>65112563The more I learn, the closer I get to angrily shouting curses at my screen in the vain hope that they travel back in time and find the fucking idiots who did shit like this.How much plutonium? This shit is so poisonous you won't even have time to get ARS or cancer.Do I want to know about what else was in the basin, or is it better to just live in happy ignorance?
>>65111947>Krasnoyarsk-26https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-secret-city/>reactor produces nearly 1,000 kg of plutonium per year>they left it running for over a decade after the fall of the Soviet Union until the US paid to convert it to not produce plutoniumHoly shit. So what were they doing with the plutonium, just dumping into the waste cavern with everything else?
>>65112382Russia only shut down it's first industrial reactor in 1987 a few months after Chernobyl.A water graphite reactor with barebones safety features that was ltierally a worse and cruder version of Hanford's B Reactor(which was shut down in 1963 due to being outdated), a reactor that melted down 3 TIMES IN THE FIRST YEAR....ran until 1948. The VERY FIRST reactor, the test reactor in Moscow(the Russian equivalent of Chicago Pile or ZEEP) F-1, is still running today. Russia was still running WW2 era design open cycle water graphite reactors in 1992, when America shut down the last of their ancient designs in the late 60s and Britain in the late 50s.
>>65111939Maybe, maybe not. When you look into cases of someone trying to kill someone else with something radioactive, it's usually either someone placing a source where someone will be exposed to it long term (under a chair, in a car) or Russian agents slipping polonium into someone's drink. If you're not fucking with the victim's food, you can't count on alphas to do the job and if you're relying on gammas and betas (and the victim will not be spending hours or days right next to the source) then you'll need something indescribably hot to even alter their bloodwork, never mind kill them. The problem with something that indescribably hot of course is acquiring it, storing it, and then transporting it to where it's needed. It only sounds easy until you do the math.It is difficult to comprehend just how hot that source will need to be to injure people at a distance of more than a foot or two in a matter of minutes. Doses are inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source. Remember that when Harry Daghlian had his time in the spotlight with the old spicy ball? He died horribly of radiation poisoning. The security guard 12 feet away from him (shielded by 12 feet of air) died of old age. Distance matters.>yes, picrel is slotin not daghlian, but he met his end from the same spicy ball so fuck you>not for nothing but with how much of a goddamn pain in the ass it is to post images on this image board, i kind of think they don't want people to post images
>>65112659>Holy shit. So what were they doing with the plutonium, just dumping into the waste cavern with everything else?Knowing the Soviets, the waste cavern would probably be the pinnacle of disposal methods. Who even knows, maybe it was just put into a river or some shit and converted to someone else's problem
I don't think we've found regarding accidents on the Alfas? I've heard there was one on K-64 (the first of class that got bricked) and a later one on K-373.>>65097260I can definitely see that being the case at that level.>>65110121Good summary, but leased is a common misnomer that gets thrown about regarding the shared pool. The 56 UK missiles within that pool are 'Title-owned' as part of the 1982 amendment to the original sales agreement (which also included a 5% contribution to the Trident IIs R&D by the UK) whilst maintenance is done by the US.
>>65112563>577g of plutoniumHow much do you need for a bomb?
>>65108447>Keeping in mind that thieves are, in general, extremely stupidIndeed but that doesn't exclude the other, criminals in groups usually send the dumbest to do the most dangerous jobs because they don't even realize the dangerst. knew a not so bright dude from work who used to steal copper from train lines in his youth and he still didn't connect the dots that they didn't send him to chop off the overhead line with an axe because he was strong>>65109115>One of the threads mentioned something about one of chechen warlords needing radioactive materials for a dirty bomb, maybe that was the case here?Yeah, Shamil Basayev's group but what >>65110255 said is true, and even they were aware of it because the first dirty bomb was a publicity stuntAnd not even a particularly successful one, presumably because in the russian reality a random dude from Karabach/Asbest/Norilsk would walk straight through it stating >finally some fresh fucking air
>>65114562About tree fiddy
>>65112382>just let it run for another 28 years lmaotbf i found some conflicting sources on that, maybe the third also dumped shit straight into the river What's more, some environmental studies suggest a spike in plutonium in the river around 2017, when the reactor should be almost a decade off already
>>65066910>>65067359>The soviets outdid Louis Slotin here.Yeah it's as if Slotin did his work in the middle of a busy parking lotI still wonder if the mysterious torpedo boat isn't just a convenient scapegoat, if it existed at allThe soviets tended to blame a lot of shit on operator error just so they don't have to expose design or systemic flaws
>>65118458>I still wonder if the mysterious torpedo boat isn't just a convenient scapegoat, if it existed at allIt does seem odd that there's no further mention of discipline about it or anything. You might be on to something there. Wonder what really happened? Crane operator fat fingered the controls? Maybe they just withdrew too far, and it somehow surged a bit and bumped the lid higher, that then really set it off?
I do hope that whomever ends up making a video on the A-1 meltdowns in 1948 and 1949 comes here first so we can provide all we have found and maybe get some credit for our source digging.Hoping for Plainely Difficult
>>65118617>It does seem odd that there's no further mention of discipline about it or anything.Exactly, shit is hard to believe, usually they would get 200% of the blame, and end up court martialed or stationed on the worst outpost in the Arctic/Siberia in the best caseInstead we get>Yes we grievously violated all the safety procedures but the real culprit is a torpedo boat which we shall never mention again. No, you cannot see it, it's in another port>Wonder what really happened?I think most likely is a simple calculation error, time pressure made them cut every corner possible so no one double checked the results>calculating the distance the crane could lift the lid without starting a chain reaction. However, they were unaware that the compensating grate and the remaining absorbers were also being lifted along with the lid.I'm no pro on soviet sub reactors but this seems like a pretty bad blunder
>>65119900>>65118617Didn't the report say that they all died in the flash?
>>65120374Yeah but a small boat at full tilt would've been far enough away by the time the wake reached them that they'd survive (I would think)
>>65066908>Captain 3rd Rank Vyacheslav Tkachenko , who, as was later reported, was going through a rough patchProbably report code for "he was drunk as a skunk because his wife was filing for divorce, he walked in on his girlfriend rawdogginf three buryats, he was living with his estranged mother and his babushka just died"
>>65121084Anon means that the boat never existed and the people that screwed up all died in the flash.
>>65108534No. UK nuclear release authority is entirely sovereign. They dont even have PALs, a sub commander can fire independently. Having said that the last 2 trident tests failed...
>>65113107Or a spicy umbrella...
>>65108534There's also the basic security problem: once you have physical control over a thing all bets are off. Even if the US would actively deny launch authority, there is nothing stopping the Germans from fiddling with the thing to make it go boom anyway. I think a lot of people are just retards that go nuts the second orange man opens his mouth, but realistically you'd want plan A, B, C for what happens to those nukes. Also consider the nukes are where they are because the USSR border used to be in commuting distance rather than road trip distance. Like you'd want local control over them in case the soviets actually made it to the rhine.
>>65121090I mean according to Soviet doctors being drunk would help. I mean->>65071050>Some of the crew simply fled the submarine. The political officer took refuge in his cabin on the floating barracks, drank alcohol to neutralize the radioactivity, and passed out. The remaining sailors began fighting for their ship and their lives.
>>65121084>>65120374>>65119900So I had a look at this. This small boat sounds like a Project 368 boat, which was a torpedo retriever used by the Soviets at this time period with some boats being used as either border patrol or gunboats. There isn’t a full list of boats commissioned, but there’s at least a partial list of them. Interesting enough, there was a T368 (torpedo retriever subclass) that was lost in August 1985 in an accident involving a submarine. But that was TL-995, which was: a) in the Northern Fleet, not the Pacific Fleet; b) recorded as lost on the 23rd, not the 10th; and c) the accident was involving B-103, which was a Project 641 [“Foxtrot”] class. So seems unlikely to be her.https://russianships.info/eng/support/project_t368.htm
>>65121217>they dont even have PALshaha holy shit, even Pakistan has PALs on their nukes. i'd be surprised if the US really lets that shit fly nowadays; how likely is it that they've forced them to install some sort of PAL in secret?>>65121753>once you have physical control over a thing all bets are off. >Even if the US would actively deny launch authority, there is nothing stopping the Germans from fiddling with the thing to make it go boom anywaynot really, Ukraine inherited a bunch of warheads after the cold war and they were willing to destroy them because their PALs were still controlled by the old Soviet (now Russian) command-and-control system. warheads locked by PALs are little more than scrap fissile material
>>65122652God bless your autism. So it didn't exist, or if it did, it was wiped from the record (doubtful). What a treat
>>65122772>warheads locked by PALs are little more than scrap fissile materialThat depends on type of warhead and type of PAL
I just now found this thread, arethe previous ones archived anywhere? I'd like to know more
>>65123617>I just now found this thread>and I couldn't read the first reply before spergingyou couldn't read anyway
>>65123617the second post is a list of archive links
>>65122652Nice job anonMight be they used that excuse on purpose, cover stories work the best when there's a grain of truth to themThe admirals story looks pretty dubius when you look at the map, Chazma bay is only a kilometer something long, and 300m wide, kinda hard to believe even a smaller boat would be doing full speed there if it has to dock right after passing itAnd if it didn't go through the bay proper but further through Strelok gulf, they would have no reason would being closer than 2km to the sub, except for going closer on purpose>watch those sick skidz cyka blyat
>>65112333>>65112382>>65112659The MCC claims to have a spotless safety record, compared to Mayak and the other sites but if you read some papers on the contamination of the Yenisei some "unique" (every second paper i read on the soviet nuclear program seems to use that word, usually in conjunction with "horribly") stuff comes out >one study found 200 hot particles>There are least three different layers in the Yenisei sediment suggesting major fuckups>Some have very high Pu238 to Pu239/Pu240 ratios, something very unusual for weapon-grade plutonium production, looking more like a fuckup during the reprocessing of old fuel elements>cobalt60, in particles that look like rust from the cooling system>some were europium isotopes, which were never found anywhere else, being most likely part of the control rodsThe fun shit about the spotless safety claims is what a former director wrote in his book about the history of the MCC>Serious "thermal goat" accidents have also occurred at the reactor. >The term "thermal goat" comes from metallurgy, where it reflects the emotional state of personnel after the event. >Such an accident occurs when, for a variety of reasons, the water supply to the fuel cell is interrupted. >Due to the lack of heat removal, the working uranium blocks become extremely hot within seconds, melting the aluminum cladding and partially the uranium cores.>In total, seven "thermal goat"-type accidents have occurred at reactors, all of them occurring in the early years of operation.
>>65125086>The term "thermal goat" comes from metallurgy, where it reflects the emotional state of personnel after the event.What is it even supposed to mean? Is this some Soviet officialese gobbledygook, or what? Neither English nor the Russian word brings anything related to mind.
>>65125086>>cobalt60, in particles that look like rust from the cooling systemCobalt in the reactor component alloys? Well, that's certainly horrifying, so I guess we can only hope it's also unique.
>>65125086>govno-khimicheskiy kombinatheh
>>65125093supposedly it happens when metal instead of being poured freezes in the furnace, making it a bitch to get out (because it's stubborn as a goat), i have no idea what he meant with the emotional stateI find it funny, even more since russians also call "goat/kozel" their jerry-rigged heaters like picrel, the comparisons to their nuclear program make themselves kek
>>65125107Jumpy, perhaps? Or possibly just looking for the steepest, tallest mountain to run up the side of and then never come down again...
>>65125107>Cobalt in the reactor component alloys? Well, that's certainly horrifying, so I guess we can only hope it's also unique.Do not worry comrade, reactor open cycle, soon problem of someone else
>>65125093I've heard the term from Annushka.It means 'fuel melt'
>>65125086Good news anons, we have a new set of horrors on the level of Annushka 1949 to go looking into
>>65125107>we can only hope it's also uniqueIt's not. Cobalt is a useful part of certain alloys that are applicable to nuclear work. Given that this is not a War Thunder forum I won't elaborate, but you can Goggle it if you'd like. It's not a third world thing or even much of a secret. Superalloys exist for this sort of job, and some of them feature cobalt.My understanding is that the civilian side of the house has come up with cobalt free alloys to do this kind of thing because most of your (and my) dose comes from activated cobalt when you (and I) work around this stuff. I have no idea if it's any good or not, and I have no idea why we don't use it. All of this is above my paygrade. I only know that the overwhelming majority of my lifetime dose (from occupational sources) is from cobalt 60, because that's what happens when the things experience the thing, and the thing that results from that undergoes the other thing, and then those things end up in the one thing.
>>65126138nta, but aren't cobalt alloys used mostly for small shit like valves or bearings not the piping proper?I remember there being a push to reduce even those applications ages ago, because Co59 is a bitch that only waits to get activated, and as you said, responsible for most of the dose people in that field receive That aside, you probably don't dump this shit straight into the river kek
>>65125086Small correction, that guy, Morozov, who wrote the book wasn't a former director but the deputy chief engineer, and he also wrote> Throughout its operation, there have been no accidents with serious consequences, no releases of radioactivity outside the sanitary protection zone, and no personnel exposures exceeding permissible limitsGuess those meltdowns and fuel/control rod parts in the Yenisei ain't so serious after allOr did they make all of the Yenisei including the downstream cities part of the sanitary protection zoneThe beginning of his book has a history part which along some obvious propaganda>The most moral participant in that war was, without a doubt, the Soviet Union. We could destroy a city during an assault, and this was inevitable when the enemy defends every house. But to deliberately launch a hundred bombers with the task of laying out a city behind enemy lines for a wheat field—we never did that. But aside of that there are several segments jerking off beria, who apparently was a pretty cool guy, brilliant manager whose only flaw was that he seduced 200 women>The key to Beria's leadership was not fear, but the utmost clarity of his orders, which were achievable despite the immense complexity of the overall task>But the People's Commissar of the NKVD and Intelligence understood that the attack was inevitable, and chose this Jesuitical form of report to once again warn the "father of the people" of the approaching catastrophe. Beria simply couldn't bring himself to say it any other way. One could say he was already accomplishing a heroic feat by once again harassing Stalin with a topic the leader had obviously closed once and for all. What motivates Beria? Think what you will, but love for the Motherland is more appropriate in this case.>Believe it or not, Beria dreamed of a peaceful atom and an economy that would function on its own, without orders from above.Give that man a Nobel peace prize
>>65121217>>65122772Neither USN nor RN SSBNs had PALs for the duration of the Cold War - probably due to the argument that while ultimate authority remained with the CO, a majority of the command team would have to be in agreement for the order to be authentic. Apparently USN SSBNs had a similar device to a PAL installed in the late 90s though.Interestingly enough, McNamara originally wanted the Bahamas agreement to include a similar dual key arrangement to the NATO shared nukes.
>>65126280>aren't cobalt alloys used mostly for small shit like valvesThat's correct. The piping doesn't need to be made of something like that (at least in a PWR) and it would be prohibitively expensive to do so.>you probably don't dump this shit straight into the riverThat's also correct. We haul it out to the desert and chuck it into a hole in the ground.
Just found out about Robert Peabody
>>65126513>Give that man a Nobel peace prizeFor services to cunny?
>>65127123>Robert Peabody, intending to add a bottle of 1,1,1-trichloroethane to remove organics from a tank containing radioactive uranium-235 in a sodium carbonate solution, mistakenly added a bottle of uranium solution. This produced a criticality excursion accompanied by a flash of lightThe menace of poor labelling strikes again
>>65127123The Six Million Sievert Man makes that look like a mere sunburn
I think the LaSalle 1988 incident TCG covered was pretty interesting>LWR gets most of it's rods pulled out in a low power, high coolant situation>Due to some valve fuckups and bad luck it's stuck in a high pressure state with excessive cooling>Excess cooling means lower fuel temps>High pressure + excess cooling means no steam voids>Negative Temp Coefficient and Negative Void Coefficient kick in and reactor power begins rising>But the high pressure and high cooling keep it from warming up enough to balance out, and the lack of rods means these coefficients are the dominant force>Operators are fumbling around to get heaters on to raise the coolant temp, but it's not going well>The reactor begins surging violently and undergoing minor prompt criticalitys like a pulse reactor, as the cold fuel and lack of steam causes the reactivity to surge, which briefly heats it up enough to crash the power, before the extremely high coolant flow freezes it back up and it surges again>The surges are getting bigger and bigger as the reactor gets less and less stable>The operators do not understand the gravity of the situation, and by the time they finally consider maybe giving up and scraming the automatic scram has stepped inAccording to the official report, had the automatic scram failed(not super likely, but it has happened before and in this case it was the last safety layer they had remaining), there's a significant risk the reactor would have destroyed itself, especially if they actually succeeded in turning on the heated pumps. There was a delay in the actual heating of the coolant from those, not a long one, but for a few seconds those pumps would have made the cooling and lack of voids WORSE instead of better and with the reactor already surging it would have probably undergone a big enough prompt criticality to burst SL-1 style. The containment dome would hold it all, but the reactor would have been scrap and the cleanup wouldn't have been fun
>>65127260>The menace of poor labelling strikes againOne of the rare cases where the movie trope>added the wrong chemical, it's going to blow strikes true
>>65128531What's the story with the pic? Something weird, or just actual chocolates in medical/chemical packaging for reverse-novelty value?
>>65129008>just actual chocolates in medical/chemical packagingthismany companies give away diverse gimmick gifts to big customers, mine wanted to send Lebkuchen packages once, only to realize that sending foodstuffs outside the EU is a royal pain in the ass, so tough luck those customers didn't get anything and my department ended up with like 20kg of the stuff, which took us the whole of December to eat
>>65129215>and my department ended up with like 20kg of the stuff, which took us the whole of December to eatI'm sure it was very lecky
>>65129215>20kg of Lebkuchenoh the horror
>>65129008>>65129215i wonder if westinghouse sends "yellow cake" cookies to their customers
>>65066879I went to Chechenya and those guys are famous, so is the Georgian man who used an RTG as a heater for his shed and never questioned the magic heat rock
