I’ve seen a few guys on yt absolutely pummeling targets with Staccato’s, and me not being a real big pistol guy I looked into them to see how much they were. I was shocked to see they start at $2,299 and go up to $5k-$7,800. Why are they so much, and are they actually worth it? I mean are you paying for precision engineering on par with the Germans, or are you essentially just paying for an already modded and smithed pistol? The only real changes I could see were:-ported pistol slide-fluted pistol barrel -lighter softer recoil spring -better trigger-of course topped off with a TrijAre there any alternatives in the $1,200-$1,900 range? Or am I better off buying a CZ, Kimber, Sig or HK and just taking it to a smith and getting it modded? I mean my .338 set up was about $5,600, that’s with a S&B PMII, Atlas Bipod, McMillen Stock, Timney Trigger at 1.2lbs, APA scope Rings, Anticant bubble etc. So the idea of paying upwards of $3k-$5k for a pistol is wild. https://youtube.com/shorts/geQ4zkDaK30?si=JVhdIAf26Crl4NaB
Yeah
>>65069990Staccato is basically a Duty Race Gun, so things like fitment and reliability people are expecting high quality. Just due to the nature of 2011/1911 design, there's lots of hand fitting, the gun is mostly 1911 so all 1911isms apply to it. >or are you essentially just paying for an already modded and smithed pistol? The only real changes I could see were:It's a high end pistol. It's already gunsmithed, they require lots of hand fitting even with modern CNC technology. The Staccato/STI used to be the only option for a entry level 2011, yes, 2k-3k was ENTRY LEVEL in this field. Now there is alternatives>Springfield Prodigy, hit or miss really>Kimber 2K11, aiming for the same level as the Staccato at a slightly cheaper pricepoint, the stripped down models are like 1.6-1.9k with less features. >Kimber Warrior DS, aiming to undercut the Prodigy, the 9mm version is aluminum framed >Tisas/MAC 2011 or "double stack 1911s" Staccato owns the trademark for the name 2011, literally the same thing but more cheaply made and made with cheaper materials. Serves as a good base for modding with quality parts. >Apollo LFA, made in American budget 2011>Alpha Foxtrot Romulus, Remus, whatever the fuck. Another budget 2011 made in America, fancy finishes though. Pretty sure their parent company make the frames for the Springfield Prodigy as Springfield's OEM>Dan Wesson DWX, blend of a 1911 and Sig P220, wearing a CZ Shadow 2 skinsuit>Stealth Arms Platypus double stack 1911 using glock mags>Fusion Firearms ProFx, another Glock mag doublestack 1911, feels good in the handThe 2011 is a fantastic gun to shoot, John Moses Browning is literally a god, the 1911 was made just a little too early for double stack mags. And he sold the design to Colt so he couldn't shove a double stack mag into his 1911 design since he didn't own it anymore before he died.
You’re not paying for German industrial precision engineering. You’re paying for a small shop custom feel and a very refined product that needs to be kept wet and clean. I conceal carry a small one daily and shoot amateur entry level competition with my P (with the Dawson ice comp on a threaded barrel) It’s really worth it if you shoot enough to notice a difference while getting to enjoy the reliability. I feel like it’s the panther body Lincoln Continental of the handgun world. There are smoother, faster, more precise guns out there for a lot more money but this one will run you hundreds of thousands of rounds with regular maintenance and staying on top of the oil. It’s a smooth shooter but if you want a safe queen to look at and show your friends once in a while save a bit more for an atlas or nighthawk custom. If you shoot enough to appreciate the difference between guns you’ll be very happy with it. Whatever you do, do not support CZ. They volunteered to enable the Canadian govt confiscation of firearms for profit.
>>65070020It's not drop safe, it's not a duty grade gun
>>65070031Muzzle down drop safety is almost a nonissue. Don’t @ staccato for using 1911 internals that has been doing that since 1911.Mind you the Sig P320 when adopted by the U.S. Army was not drop safe and there are many pre “voluntary” upgrade guns in circulation that are not drop safe in the WORST way as it’s able to fire muzzle up since they made the actual trigger shoe heavy enough pull itself. Plus they just made a new drop safe one that takes Glock mags
hk p30l also seems to have great rep, especially since it comes with the gajillion grip parts so you can fit it to your hand specifically.
Reject all gas station knife guns.
>>65069990>>65070045Yes and no, it all depends. HK is good, they’re extremely good considering how many pistols HK produces each year, same thing with a few others. Aren’t S&B’s like $3,000? That’s a lot for a scope frenBut you have to look at it from another perspective. HK produces impeccable pistols in pretty large quantities, and even at the level of manufacturing they do, they are reliable enough to be contracted out with nearly every decent military and law enforcement agency all around the world. They are rugged, very resilient and highly accurate with respect to how much you can put them through. Something like a Prodigy or Staccato will 100% absolutely outshoot an HK, however it’s unlikely you’ll be able to put a staccato through the same amount of torture and abuse that an HK could handle and it still be accurate and reliable. HK on the other hand could have 10 thousand rounds put through it, and then be thrown into the mud, picked up the next day and still shoot quarter size groups at 25yds. I’m not even sure most people that own a staccato could bare to throw their pistol in mud and leave it over night. >tldrStaccato is great, and accurate as fuck, but can’t handle the same torture as HKHK isn’t as accurate as a staccato but more accurate than most, and even after torture and abuse continues to be more accurate than most>>65070020Do ultimately what are you a fan of? Would you shoot for the top and go staccato right away or budget for something else like OP was asking about
>>65069990I got a Staccato P (4.4" barrel, DLC coated unthreaded barrel) for $1900 2.5 years ago and I've really loved it. Only change I made was getting one of the newer grip modules for cheap on eBay and swapping it just because I prefer the sandpaper-y feeling
>>650700311911s aren't drop safe in general and they were still in service into the 2010s. Fuck off
>>65070401I have a Nighthawk but honestly probably should have got a staccato XC or something. I’m getting into building my own 2011s
>>65069990Rock Island Armory does some really interesting stuff. I got a doublestack 10mm 1911 that fits in my hand better than any other gun I've tried.
>>65069990Beretta 92XI
>>65069990They jam and are less reliable than Glocks. That’s saying something.
>>65070033Glock mags ruin the 1911 grip angle. Honestly if you’re buying a staccato youre well beyond economizing on mags. Would love some Wilson combat staccato mags though
>>65070945Skill issue. Do I need to post glock jams?
I'm a big fan of my HD. Would highly recommend. Ben Stoeger has a lot of videos on the 4" and 4.5. I did have a lot of stoppages during the break in period, but this has never malfunctioned with duty ammo and I'm at around 1,800 rounds now and it eats WWB just fine.
>>65071392>that grip anglePig disgusting
>>65069990They work well when you keep them clean and lubricated. I know guys who ran them for duty that would lube them before every shift, they knew it was necessary due to failures on range day. Personally I wouldn't run one, it's a competition gun not a practical home defense, CC, or duty gun. It has a hair trigger and it's SAO which are not good for much beyond speed competitions. It's a race gun and if you don't race there are more practical options. Just get an M&P metal.
>>65071588L take
>>65071588?
>>65069990no dude, when will you people grow up and learn?it was babbys first step up from the glocks they could afford, you're talking to a bunch of retarded dudebros who are monkey see, monkey do types, they need to set themselves apart from the crowdso what do they do? go for the boomer range gun they see in youtube clips...if springfield made a 2011 in brazil it would be fine, don't believe me? go shoot a an sti, it's just a riced out 2011, a step up from the zev style glock the customer base was previously carryingat the end of the day, why carry all that weight for 9mm? not /k/ommando at all
didn't even read >>65071392 when posting>>65071706 but this is hilarious>big basedjack fan of his precious pistol wistoldudebro check>watches videoscheck>boomer target pistol jams, but works fine with featureless target ballchecki rest my case, and motion to adjourn ahead of schedule
>>65070020Taking a screenshot of this, thanks anon!
>>65069990The gap between a basic 1911 and a gucci 1911 is nowhere near as big as the gap between a bench shooter and a well seasoned one. Basically what I'm saying. If you don't have unlimited budget, then you're better spending that extra money on ammo.
>>65071711You frame this like a retard. 2011s are cool, but I still own numerous other types of pistols, and I'm not trying to box myself in to owning and shooting one type of pisol.>watches videosSo I could make an informed decision, sue me. >boomer target pistol jams, but works fine with featureless target ballWorks fine with target ball AFTER break-in, has ALWAYS fed 124gr HSTs without issue. Learn to read.
>>65069990I love mine (probably around 5-6k rds on it at this point) and I’ve found it to be extremely reliable. It does like to be run wet but people overstate how wet it needs to be - I hit mine with some CLP roughly every 700 rounds to keep it running smoothly. I could probably get more out of it if I didn’t run the light recoil spring and low pf ammo. Ben Stoeger ran an XC for 2000 rounds without cleaning and it was fine.With regards to cost, find one on your local secondary market. They’re usually available for 2-3k because the guys who catch the 2011 bug eventually upgrade to even more Gucci guns.
>>65071711To be fair I think WWB is an OK litmus test, it's super shitty and routinely locks up my long guns and revolvers. On the other hand my wonder9s and tupperware run it just fine and didn't need a break-in period, so it's a pretty low bar.
>>65069990>Why are they so muchThe more expensive designs have hand fitting to make sure everything is just right.>are they actually worth it?If you are a serious competition shooter, then arguably yes. If you are not a competition shooter, then probably not.>-ported pistol slide>-fluted pistol barrel >-lighter softer recoil spring >-better trigger>-of course topped off with a TrijThe only one that matters is the supreme 1911/2011 trigger. All those other upgrades can be acquired by competing designs.>Are there any alternatives in the $1,200-$1,900 range?Yes. If you are not already a world-class comp shooter, there are many designs for less than $2K. You don't have to go to a custom/semi-custom 1911/2011 until you are already one of the best (or just want to own one, I guess).
>>65069990this post reads like OP is either a teenager, has never held/owned/seen/shot a real life gun before, or more likely both
>>65069990>>go up to $5k-$7,800Where the fuck are you seeing this? The most expensive model they sell starts with a base msrp of $4200, and even if you slap every accessory available onto it, you can’t get it anywhere near 6k, let alone 7,800.
>>65070031Beat it, fud. Being drop safe isn’t a dirty use requirement, and never has been. Go be a retard somewhere else.
>>65071204The grip angle is literally the fucking same, moron.
does anyone make a 2011 with a monolithic metal frame but not fat like the old paras? or is the plastic shit required to make it thin?
I think the MPA ones might meet your standards.
>>65072603You can just put a Steel grip frame on a 2011? I don't think the separate grip frame (plastic, aluminum, or steel) is necessary to make it thin, it just makes it alot easier to produce for little to no downside. Upsides really since you can just swap grip modules to>increase or decrease grip texture>increase or decrease weight>change grip profile>change magazine length (126mm standard, 120mm "carry/commander", or 113mm "compact carry", allegedly there are 103mm mags but nobody has made them or grip modules for them for a long time. without permanent modifications The offshoot guns like the Platypus (aluminum) and Dan Wesson DWX (steel or aluminum) are monolithic.
>>65072603>monolithic metal frameRIA and i think kimber and springfield are making some 1 piece metal frames
>>65072796I think it's mostly the tiny little screw above the triggerguard that annoys me.
>>65070561My nipples got hard when I saw that photo. Very nice >>65069990It’s good but go with the Platypus or the Prodigy
>>65071925Your opinion ~~~~> garbage You may go back to plebbit now
>>65073438underaged poster triggered lol
Waiting for the ds warrior to finally come out in 45 acp.
>>65070031The new duty series are drop safe and take Glock mags. Think it’s called the p4 or something too lazy to google
>>65070031Sig disagrees
