If you're fighting a counter-insurgency against guerillas, who flash in and out of civilian posturing at the drop of a hat, isn't dropping the odd cunt inevitable? If governments have a problem with this shouldn't they, instead of prosecuting their own soldiers, not get involved in such wars?
>>65072913Expecting your soldiers to behave like professionals and not cannibal niggers is a western mindset. You wouldn't get it.
>>65072913>If you're fighting a counter-insurgency against guerillasThe way you win is how the British defeated the Boers. Round them up and starve them out. Scour the damn countryside until everyone capable of fighting back is either dead or in one of the concentration camps. They call that "Genocide" these days, though. >not get involved in such wars?Don't start a war is the first rule of foreign policy. Unfortunately, that's not a policy choice available to Israel's most loyal golem.
>>65072913The primary means of defeating insurgents is through infiltrators and garrison forces. Guerrilla forces are to be cut off and defeated through conventional means. Utilizing the local elites working for you to bring order.Afghanistan and most other western adventures into COIN fail because:>There are no strategic objectives>Poor to nonexistent integration of local elites>No elites mean no HUMINT which means no ability to figure out whos a civvie and whos an insurgent>Ideologically led thinking that instituting democracy will magically manifest stability when the role of the COIN/sponsor should be that of a dictator reigning in the elites who are willing to cooperate and destroying and replacing the ones that don't>Thinking that setting up a platoon sized combat outpost and conducting presence patrols where soldiers hand out MRE's and water bottles will get people on your sideYou only butcher the populace when you're an empire looking to colonize a new region or when you have royally fucked up the COIN operation but you also have to still win. tl;dr it's not about being more violent for the sake of violence, it's about not being an ideologically delusional retard and understanding the realities of what COIN and warfare and general are.
Reminder, literally all the dude had to do was shut the fuck up, and he would've gotten off scot free. The media storm passed, and nobody cared anymore until he tried to sue the news groups that'd covered the story years ago.
>>65073037Yep, yappy cunt
>>65072913someone stupid enough to videotape themselves doing crimes should be charged regardless of opinion on the validity of the law. just too god damn dumb to go free.
>>65072913Absolutely. But discretion is crucial, because even if you or I know and understand that the unarmed faggot with the radio who suspiciously hangs out by the road to the FOB is the one coordinating attacks on your patrols, factually your average joe does not see the distinction or nuance and for you to take the snitch out would in his eyes be a callous and indefensible act of murder. So you should approach it as the imprisonable crime which it is. That is to say, you don't kill him right in front of foreign pilots who don't necessarily know the score, you don't take gopro or you switch it off beforehand, you don't mention it in AARs or if you do you say they were armed, you don't make any mention of it in books or on podcasts; and if it ever comes up you deny everything. The British army had an unwritten shoot on sight policy towards locals in Basra carrying phones and nobody ever got charged, because everybody had the good sense to keep their fucking mouths shut; something apparently lost on the Australians.
>>65072913oh shit! this is the first time I see the clear version. typically the executioner's head is blurred out.
>>65073019The best way to defeat insurgents is to not be such a massive cunt that the population tolerates an insurgency. The gap between popular expectations and authority's demands has to be small enough that nobody rational is willing to risk everything to try and fix it with violence. This is the only moral answer.
>>65073093That implies legitimacy of government comes from the people. History says otherwise. Ideally they like you more than the insurgents, but even if they don't, it doesn't matter. Elites are what matter because elites are the ones with power. You can say the same thing about the mafia. A lot of people were terrorized by the mafia, did that stop the mafia? No, why? Because the mafia had power.This nation as an example was not founded on some bullshit liberalism concept of by the people for the people. That was the rational afterthought to make the reality seem prettier. This country was founded by men willing to commit violence and had the power to do so and usurped the ones in control.
a lil cringe to make the same thread on two different boards, an hour apart.
>>65072998>Don't start a war is the first rule of foreign policy>foreign policy never failsBoohoo.
>>65072913MaybeBut as anons above said, he talked too much about it so he had to be made an example of>>65073019>it's about not being an ideologically delusional retardThe people attempting COIN these days can't even build their own nations nondysfunctionally let alone other people's nations
>>65073093Imbecile.
>>65072913Accidentally clapping a civi happens, executing kids on the ground them dropping radios on their body to claim they were spotters is not the same.I'm an aussie and want to see these cunts in prison 6 years ago instead of the lawyer that reported on it.>treat POWs well>get lots of surrenders>take less casualties >have to fight less>execute civilians>the whole world finds out>ScoMo government says it's fine>no one would ever surrender to us>we take more casualties>we have to fight moreHave a meme I saved 6 years ago.
>>65073019Video game logic. Do this then that happens. Expecting everything to fall neatly into place.
>>65073363>Accidentally clapping a civi happens, executing kids on the ground them dropping radios on their body to claim they were spotters is not the same.You can't control the narrative. Everything you do is regarded deliberate and turns the populace against you.
>>65073363Have you considered that maybe it's because of sissy homosexuals like you that we lost the war?
>>65073376You might want to be a nation that acts like thridies, I would rather not.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-15/sas-soldiers-allegedly-plant-gun-on-dead-bodies-in-afghanistan/12452964>>65073382Has bombing schoolgirls opened the strait?
>>65073385If Trump was in control of the army during Afghan war he would have won the war in 2 years because he's not a sentimental faggot like a guy like you is. The White race has way too many queers
>>65073382NTA but we owe it to ourselves to be better than our enemies.
>>65072998The boers were like two families with a shotgun
>>65073389>TACO Trump>winning anything taking more than a few weeksNTA but lmao come on son
>>65073392We weren't better than our enemies. They literally won the war. Taliban controls the country?????
>>65073394He would have won because he's a psychopath and we need guys like that in control. Not retarded SJWs like you
>>65073382soviets bombed the shit out of Afghanistan, did a few massacres and still lost so that obviously doesn't work retard
>>65073373I believe scientists call that cause and effect anon.
>>65072998>The way you win is how the British defeated the BoersGuerillas require foreign aid or major enemy weakness to succeed. The Boer area was isolated from foreign aid and the British occupiers were not weak, boasting a ridiculous manpower advantage. Scorched earth was entirely unnecessary, especially to the maximal extent seen there. Entirely avoidable excess of questionable worth.
>>65072913I know it's real, but that gun looks so much like something AI made.
>>65073382Squad Designated Sissy (SDS) when?
>>65073389Trump was in charge for more than 2 years and he surrendered to the Taliban.
>>65073398He had his chance from 2016-2020 when he was in charge of the war and instead gave the country to the Taliban in secret negotiations instead. Weird.
>>65073426>>65073434Fuuuuck I remember that, he actually had leaders of the Taliban invited to camp David, a few months before handover to Biden admin. What a fucking loser.Then when the pullout went rough because no planning had been done and Biden made the stupid call to follow Trump's retarded timeline instead of pushing it back, they caught the flack instead of Trump lol.
>>65073422I don't remember Ella vid where he looked like that. Sauce?
>>65072992Expecting human beings to act like perfect robots in any situation, let alone conflict, is an idiotic delusion meant solely for the masses. It's a thin veneer; an artificial facade meant to enable compliance in the unthinking masses, not an attainable ideal that's pragmatic or useful on a societal level. Instead of setting realistic expectations, understanding the limits of your of capabilities, abating consequences, and achieving the best possible outcome, you fall victim to the the very emotions you imagine that you're capable of transcending. Even now, I do the same. The difference is, my folly does not degrade the Western psychosocial paradigm. But by all means, join the Communists in their identical fantasy that sterile ideals are worthy of aspiration.Cute picture. You'd make a successful politician.
>>65073576Not him, but>Expecting human beings to act like perfect robots in any situation, let alone conflict, is an idiotic delusionYeah that's alrightLots of things are missed out by the systemThat's the "bye" that people get, which you describe hereThe real problem is this stupid cunt bragged about it for yearsWhich is tantamount to making the same mistake over and over and over again
>>65073576>immediate bad-faith hyperboleStopped reading after the first sentence. Like I said, you just don't get it.
>>65073418If it had helped save ONE British life, it was worth it.
>>65073576>Expecting human beings to act like perfect robots in any situation, let alone conflict, is an idiotic delusion meant solely for the masses.No one does. It's why we have an entire system of imposed discipline in militaries, right up to having an entirely separate class of serviceman whose principle function at junior ranks is to be ethically and intellectually separate from those they command to enable them to recognise and intercede to prevent the ethical deviance and degeneracy that will inevitably happen in war if left unchecked.But those checks were all subverted in this instance. I have said since day one that the people responsible for allowing all of the safeguards to be subverted should have faced responsibility for what happened as a result, and that it calls into question the ethical fitness of pretty much every officer who served in the regiment for many years either side of the alleged events. By absolutely no later than 2009 it was common knowledge that ORs were running selection to keep out of the regiment any officers that would actually hold them accountable in any way, and I assume it was well known before then as well. By 2011 at the latest it was reasonably common knowledge in, at the very least, everywhere even vaguely adjacent to SF that Ben Roberts-Smith was a titanic thundercunt and a loose cannon, but crucially, that other titanic thundercunt of the period, LTGEN David Morrison practically attached himself at the hip to BRS and the two literally toured around the Army endorsing each other. Well before all of that it was known that SASR was super duper incestuous and that, even compared to 1CDO, 2CDO and IRR (as it was called in the bad old days) NCOs and WOs weren't posting in the way that military units need them to if you want Big Army to have any kind of influence on regimental culture.I cannot possibly emphasise just how much the entire thing was not a surprise at all to anyone who had any dealings with SF outside of a HQ.
>>65073653>that other titanic thundercunt of the period, LTGEN David MorrisonAnd can I just take this moment to throw one final piece of shade on the career of this absolute careerist piece of shit.The standard you walk past is the standard you accept, and you, you absolute motherfucker, were so busy lecturing the Army on the tenets of postmodern morality and trying to stamp out any holdouts of regimental culture, that you spent every day of your worthless fucking tenure walking past a slew of war crimes. Your successors had to unfuck everything you did, proximately to this conversation finding the literal fucking atrocities committed while you were responsible for the Army, but much of the damage will prove permanent.You are and always were a monumental sack of shit, and I sincerely wish a court could pretend you were CJOPs and grow a spine long enough to Yamashita you into gaol.
>>65073679>proximately*proximateHoly fuck that man makes me so angry these days, it's unreal. Like, the more time that passes, the less reasonable everything about his tenure becomes and the fewer excuses you can find for him. It's just insane what a sack he turned out to be.
>>65073653>>65073679Where can I find more details about this?
>>65073790>>65073790>Well before all of that it was known that SASR was super duper incestuous and that, even compared to 1CDO, 2CDO and IRR (as it was called in the bad old days) NCOs and WOs weren't posting in the way that military units need them to if you want Big Army to have any kind of influence on regimental culture.Just to clarify, it's this part I don't understand, can you explain a bit further?
>>65073790>>65073792One of the reasons that armies post anyone with rank in and out of units on a frequent basis is so that units don't develop their own culture, norms and practices that deviate too much from what everyone else does. If all the NCOs, WOs and Officers spend more than half the time posted elsewhere, then there's going to be a lot of elsewhere's ideas and culture being mixed into the unit on a continuous basis. The rate that NCOs and WOs were posting out of SASR was too low for that to be happening, and the effect was that Army didn't really have much of a stake in how the unit's culture evolved over time. On paper, officer postings were filling that role, but in practice, based on my understanding, officers had very little influence over much of anything in SASR and were really kept on a leash, having been selected partly for the ability to be leashed to begin with and then given a career structure where precisely that preponderance of external postings would mean they'd never have the internal credibility necessary to be a dominant hand on the tiller of unit culture and trying would just see their career ended.Basically, SASR was every OR's fantasy about a unit that was run by a CPL and SGT mafia where officers have no say and where you could tell DSCMA to fuck themselves when they tried to post you out of the unit if you wanted to. A unit where NCOs would never post out of their incestuous playground and where officers and support staff literally couldn't be posted in without being hand selected by those same NCOs. A unit that even in peacetime was 3000km from the nearest headquarters and had no supporting or peer elements that didn't effectively answer directly to them.Oher SOCOMD units even in that period (high op tempo put a lot of pressure on SF manning) were still posting NCOs out, and did more stuff with SFTC etc. So when something in 2CDO started to go off the rails it was spotted pretty quickly and put back on. Not so SASR.
>>65073790>Where can I find more details about this?And short of being in the Army in the period, the Brereton Report. Idk if it's publicly available, but there's also the report that Crompvoets did on SF culture for Campbell and Sengelman (notably both SASR officers from a time before the unit went off the rails).
>>65074092Sounds similar to what was happening with the SEALS at the same time. I think the root of the problem is they took special forces and turned them into full time death squads without fully understand what the effect was going to be on the men in those units. And by "them" I mean Stanley McChrystal and David Petraeus and Michael Flynn. And there's growing evidence that Flynn ay least was just literally just a religious psycho who could only get erections by reading reports of his troops killing muslims,
>>65073385>Has bombing schoolgirls opened the strait?No, but it made me feel better so it improved something. Also why are Muslims mad we stopped women from learning how to read? Don't they know that if they get literate they start asking for rights?
>>65073653>>65073679Not to be a dickhead, but Aussies referring to their 25,000 man force as Big Army is pretty funny. My friend, your entire Big Army wouldn't fill up a quarter of the Melbourne Cricket Ground.
>>65074724We'll be sure to follow the internationally recognised metric of MCG seating capacity in future deployments
>>6507291399.99% of civilian kills don't get prosecuted because there's some sort of plausible deniability, you only get charged for blatant chimp outs.
>>65072992fpbp
>>65073576>soldiers can only either be chimps or robotsstarting to see why your 3 day special military operation has entered year 5, ivan
You need to understand that dropping this cunt wasn't the problem. It was quite alright, in fact.The problem was that he said it on camera and some shitlord got hold of the footage and sent it to a news outlet. Historically, the number of cunts who have been dropped is literally immeasurable but taking video cameras on operations is a relatively new thing.
>>65075128He also did the equivalent on complaining to the police that your drug dealer scammed you by trying to sue over the news coverage years later until the government was gay and retarded enough to decide to make an example of him.
>>65072992Western militaries are so strict on stuff like this because they know their troops would start acting like cannibal niggers the instant they thought they could get away with it
>>65075163It's almost like the government just used him to do their dirty work and then tossed him in the gutter when he stopped serving their interests. >Yvan Eht Nioj.
>>65075165As a volunteer force a lot of people would leave the military if it was full of rapists and murderers.
>>65074383Maybe the Americans didn't, but we knew. It's like I said, militaries (at least Commonwealth ones) are structured to contain it and correct it because it's inevitable. The problem is that SASR had removed itself from that structure, and then restructured itself internally, and told everyone it was so special that everything would be a ok. SEALs probably did have the same issue of absent control structures because no infantryisms were to be seem.>>65074406>Big Army is pretty funnyNah yeah you're right.
>>65075301>Nah yeah you're right.Meant for >>65074724
>>65075289murdering people is the military's job, and it is full of rapistsdo you think they make everyone watch the rape is bad powerpoints just because?
>>65072913>isn't dropping the odd cunt inevitable?Yes. A civilian that ignores escalation of force and appears to be a threat is a good shoot.Car behind convoy, convoy uses the green laser to get back. Car ignores and accelerates towards convoy. It can be a good shoot.Cop tells suspect to stop and raise hands, suspect grabs their phone and wallet from their pocket and enthusiastically offers their identification to the cop. In the moment the threat can appear credible. The legal standard is all the information available as perceived by the officer at the time of force used.
>>65075598Yes, this definitely applies to what we're talking about, an unarmed teenager lying on the ground who has been mauled and is still held by an attack dog, detained by a man standing on his chest with a rifle pointed at his head, who then asks someone under no pressure at all if he should execute him and is told to go for it, so shoots him three times in the head and plants prepared fake evidence on him to make him seem like a combatant, all as part of long term conspiracy by a group of sick puppies to turn their tours into Afghanistan into human-hunting-safaris.The lengths that people will go to just to make vague excuses for what is objectively the most obviously and absurdly heinous shit ever are comical. Like, no, none of this is "Innocent mistake under pressure, he ignored escalations, seemed shady and reached into a pocket", it's "Lets have ritual murders of people we know are innocent where we force the new guy to execute someone so he's bound to our conspiracy by the atrocity and then cover it up, then head back to the back and drink beer out of the prosthetic leg we looted off an old cripple we executed by handcuffing him and throwing him off a cliff" shit. Anyone who ponies up to make excuses for this stuff is just making an utter fool of themselves.>>65075571Murder isn't in the job description. Killing is. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be conflated.
>>65072913>Do you want me to drink from this cunt?
>>65075655Pedantic fag. War is killing and rape, always has been. They're called INFANTry because the minute they aren't watched like a toddler they can't be trusted to not murderhobo the rest of the campaign.
>>65073019Fucking cherry ass slick sleeved faggot. You have no idea what went wrong in Afghanistan. You can’t turn the populace against the Taliban because they simply don’t care. You roll into some dirt poor village in the mountains with the red beards and say you’re there to fight Taliban. They say okay what can you give me? Would you like to stay for dinner so I can show I’m not trying to kill you? And the answer is always nothing because it’s a dirt poor worthless hamlet of no real importance in fuck off mountains not worth the cost of building them a road or a school. Then the Taliban sneak across the paki border with their foreign fighters (we killed pakis and Chechens on the fucking reg) and threaten to kill them if they don’t hide them and feed them to which they shrug and comply. Then we take fire from the hamlet. Sweep it. Kill a few faggots in fatigues and New Balances. And they invite you to stay for dinner. It is a perpetual cycle played out since Vietnam. We kill the fuck out of the enemy and then they just hide behind the line we’re not allowed to cross and send in meat waves of unimportant retards to die so they can say they’re still in the game. It’s fucking political bullshit. You want to defeat “insurgencies”? You stop giving them a fucking place to hide. You say fuck it were torching the Ho Chi Minh Trail and fuck anyone who says shit about it. You run massive bombing campaigns in Pakistani villages where contrary to popular belief the nuclear armed state we sell weapons to doesn’t particularly fucking care about some tribal hicks in the fucking mountains. Fuck the Geneva Convention. Fuck politicians. Fuck every border that isn’t ours. That’s how you fucking win in Afghanistan.
>>65073037You're thinking of Ben Roberts-Smith.Dude in OP's pic is some other goon named Oliver Schulz>He has plead not guilty
>>65073382Uruzgan province, where these guys were acting like fuckwits, surrendered to the Taliban by phone.Not a shot fired. The Afghans neither knew nor cared what we had to offer them, and no amount of debasing themselves changed this.These freaks belong in cells.
>>65072913No.BRS was an animal killing people for fun because he liked it.
>>65074137>the Brereton Report. Idk if it's publicly available,https://www.defence.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-10/IGADF-Afghanistan-Inquiry-Public-Release-Version.pdf
>>65076276Maybe they surrendered by phone because some cunts went round murdering people the locals knew were not involved with the Taliban so they were receptive to the Taliban's message >>65076129Go away Robert, your entire platoon turned you in for being an ugly freaky weirdo
>>65076295Anon, do you know how to parse full stops?>. Idk if it's publicly available, but there's also the report that Crompvoets did on SF culture...
>>65074852Don't get snippy, cunt. USAF AMC could airlift the entire Australian Bog Army with one trip.
>>65075165>People talk of their enlisting from their fine military feeling — all stuff — no such thing.>Some of our men enlist from having got bastard children, some for minor offences, many more for drink;>But you can hardly conceive such a set brought together, and it really is wonderful that we should have made them the fine fellows they are.>I don't know what effect these men will have upon the enemy, but, by God, they frighten me
>>65076306>MaybeNo. They simply don't care. Whatever happens tomorrow is not important to them.
>>65076390If that's true why did they fight an insurgency for 20 years?
>>65076393You mean Taliban? Money, drugs and shitslamic delusions.
I don't know why retards always think that just one more massacre will stop thr guerrillas. Just fucking don't act like niggers and treat the locals well, it's that simple. French marshal Suchet's part of occupied Spain didn't really have an insurgency since he forbade his troops from mistreating the locals and respected local Spanish customs. Whenever guerrillas tried something he was easily able to defeat them since the locals weren't interested in helping the guerrillas. Meanwhile in the rest of Spain the French were exterminating entire villages while their troops were flayed and burned alive when captured. Suchet only left Spain when his fellow marshals were driven into France, he himself defeated several Anglo-Spanish armies sent against him. When he died of old age the locals in the areas administered by him even held wakes to honor his memory.
>>65076401>locals in a country you occupied hold a wake for youEvery commander needs to have this shit drilled into them, this is what winning hearts and minds actually looks like and the result is victory where it's applied.
>>65072913Read up on the Malayan Emergency. 90% of the Chinese in Malaya rebelled and supported the Communist guerillas. These guerillas hid in the jungles and received aid from Chinese shanty towns and farming villages on the outskirts of the jungles.So what did the Brits do? They forcibly removed the chinese settlers to fenced "New Villages", essentially concentration camps. BUT, this time, they gave them modern houses, sewerage system, clean piped water, electricity and food rations. The last one, was ingenious. The food rations were clearly marked, so if they fell into the communists hands, then it can be traced. Giving these relative luxury to the Chinese, made them stop supporting the communist guerillas. Hence, the "Hearts and Minds" strategy was coined. It worked. There was even an amnesty to communist guerillas if they peacefully surrendered.
>>65076326With or without the MCG though?
This is OP of course, making their daily war-crimes thread.
>>65076401>>65076408I mean, that's all well and good but the thing was Suchet was an early practitioner or hearts and minds, fighting people who hadn't fleshed out guerilla tactics and theory yet, they were just pissed off at the French being cunts.A modern day counter insurgency needs to deal with the fact that the guerillas are aware of his playbook and will do whatever they can to subvert itYou build a power plant - they blow it upYou create a police force - they infiltrate itYou manage to identify and win over a respected local to your cause - they murder himYou protect a respected local - this isolates him from the population and respect declinesYou control your soldiers - the insurgent does whatever they can to provoke them against the population, sniping from within crowds, suicide bombing them while they try to hand out sweets to kids etc.
>>65076401You're just retarded and have no idea how war works. If Napoleon just told his generals to massacre the Spanish harder then the Iberian peninsula would've been easy peasy and occupied in months.
>>65073019Doesn't traditional siege warfare also work against guerillas? By securing all basic necessities like food and water, you can force the local presence into compliance over pain of starvation, even if it isn't fast or fancy.Though, it of course requires you blockade the enemy by attacking any of their trade partner's caravans, which can get... Politically dicey.
>>65076491Well no, the issue with let's say Iraq or Afghanistan was that America left governance to corrupt natives and then spent billions blowing up random weddings or cars. Natives don't give a fuck if you built a well when you blew up half his extended family at a wedding. Shit, I read an article about the Taliban making fun of a local that convinced people to support the Americans and then his entire family was blown up by a hellstrike missile since their car was "suspicious". Suchet personally administered his territories and oversaw the troops. He didn't hand over everything to the spooks and corrupt strongmen while he blew up carts at random with batteries of cannon.But Suchet is an outlier, all the other marshals stationed in Spain ruined their reputations with defeats and growing insurgencies, Suchet earned his marshal's baton in Spain.>>65076506Fuck off Massena.
>>65075571>>65075655Technically speaking not even killing is in a soldier's job description, just taking and holding ground, which often requires killing to do with current technology.
>>65073093>The best way to defeat insurgents is to not be such a massive cunt that the population tolerates an insurgency. The British raped the entire India and most of Africa and yet they couldn't fought back and eventually had to wait for the British to leave. The American were nice enough to the Vietnamese, North Korean and Iraq, but these cunts love to exploit this and keep attacking. When the Yank said "fuck it, I will rape you", they will cry to the international stage to gain some sympathy.
>>65076401They don't care about stopping the guerrillas, they just want to do a little massacre.
>>65076627Brown fingers wrote this
>>65076522Maybe that's true if you are in an omegacuck army that has never known the objectively correct way of doing Army things (ie the Commonwealth military tradition).>The role of Infantry is to seek out and close with the enemy, to kill or capture them, to seize and hold ground, and to repel attack, by day or night, regardless of season, weather or terrain.
It was originally a shit fight between unit members who all wanted glory and tried to get each other court martialed. The army covered it all up because they couldn't imprison men who had run black ops for oligarchs in Australia, the men now discharged tried to run back to the oligarchs and run for politics, having avoided the hague only months before, at which point the media, under order of the oligarchs, tried to have the men pilloried. There were no less than four miscarriages of justice in a row as the oligarchs tried to sue each other's men, then the courts got sick of this and layed criminal charges against serving military personele which is totally unconstitutional, a doubly jeopardy issue where men had already been tried for the same offence by military tribunal, and where the courts had no territorial jurisdiction, and the plaintiff had no right to lay charges. Then the army took the extraordinary measure of striping a whole regiment (?) Of honours for war crimes individual units had only just been cleared of, leading to a revolt in the ranks.So now we have the situation where a Victoria Cross winner, guilty of war crimes, cleared of war crimes, perjured, mistrialed in two miscarriages of justice is mistrialed a third time in an unconstitutional criminal case, on the orders of a jilted former comrade who's now an opposition party figure, and two Australian oligarchs, two newspapers, and the talibans. Feel free to correct me on the details here but basically it's just onion layers of fucked up and should never have seen the light of day.
>>65076729Absolute schizopost hours.
>>65076627Britian didn't rape all of India and Africa though; the main enforcers of the Raj were themselves Indians who would rather live with the benefits of civilization over the caste system, even if it meant making an example of their neighbors.
>>65075655>an unarmed teenager lying on the ground who has been mauled and is still held by an attack dog, detained by a man standing on his chest with a rifle pointed at his head, who then asks someone under no pressure at all if he should execute him and is told to go for it, so shoots him three times in the head and plants prepared fake evidence on him to make him seem like a combatant, all as part of long term conspiracy by a group of sick puppies to turn their tours into Afghanistan into human-hunting-safaris.So you are saying accidents never happen and whenever a civilian is killed it is because the soldiers are just bloodthirsty killers?
>>65077108You are frustratingly retarded and I'm not even the Anon you are responding too.No he was clearly not saying that. He was saying that a specific incident, that was fully filmed from start to finish and happened exactly how he said it did, verifiably, is not an example of an ambiguous shitty and tragic situation that you can give the benefit of the doubt to the soldiers during the chaos of war. Jesus Christ, you have to be trolling me.
>>65073545https://www.tranny.one/view/1077823/No homo
>>65076461>relative luxuryThey were straight up concentration camps with rampant disease and malnutrition whilst the Brits ethnically cleansed the population that was giving them trouble. The Malayan Emergency is the textbook example for why modern COIN doctrine is so awful because the actual tactics employed were the exact opposite of what "hearts & minds" doctrine suggests. - The whole system was built off of the propaganda take on the conflict and not the actual conflict itself.
>>65072913>Helos too heavy we can't take him>No problem *pop pop*>DID YOU JUST HECKIN KILL A TERRORISTORINO?!?!Americans are retarded. Dumbest guy there is the one with the camera though.
>>65077559Those are Australian SASR operators you absolute fucking silly billy.
>>65077568He means the American helicopter pilot who couldn't handle a little banter and feigned (maybe, who knows) war crimes.
>>65072913You could try what literally every expert recommends but we never fucking do and treat insurgencies like the mafia and break them up with cops instead of soldiers.
>>65077589What do you do when the local police have been infiltrated by the insurgency anon? They're not some local organized crime gang. The Taliban for example outside of major US bases were effectively the government. Taxation, arbitration; these motherfuckers would openly drive around in trucks with full battle rattle in areas with low US presence. You don't just "send the police" after them.
>>65073396Afghan war was a weird one because we only started nation building after the fact. Our motivation was being pissed about 9-11 and wanting to make an example out of anyone who got in our way. Then we calmed down a little and realized just leaving would make us look bad so we had to come up with something. If we'd found bin ladin by 05-06 we probably could have just pulled out and every American would have called it a victory.
>>65072913>choose to serve ZOG>get shaftedoh no, anyway
>>65077546Actually you're both wrong. There were model new villages that were absolutely relative luxury compared to what they'd had before, and there on record as saying that. There were also really shitty ones that had practically no utilities and services and did have rampant disease. They also didn't ethnically cleanse the population, so that's a brown leftoid lie. I really think neither of you has opened a single book on the Malayan Emergency because the New Villages were a single, small, part of how they fought the communist guerillas
>>65077833How does this retarded nonsense propagate?
- Send soliders to Muslim country and murder people - Act all shocked and angsty when Muslims retaliate by killing people in your country. Oh no how do we stop this cycle of violence lol
>>65072913If you record yourself doing it and/or take trophies that can tie you to it, you're fucking retarded and the government is doing everyone a service.
>>65078007>muslims retaliatea lot of people dont know this, but muslims actually fired the first shot with some shit they pulled in new york. pretty obscure, but imma let you in on it because I know youre on the level
>>65072998Malayan emergency is a much better example of successful COIN than Boer war.
>>65075128Posting IRA pics whilst saying "dropping this cunt wasn't the problem" is really interesting because 90% of the IRAs grievances were RUC and Brit army on riot control "dropping this cunt". In fact it was practically the British COIN playbook, all the way back to chopping heads off in Malaya or the various attrocities in Kenya that inspired Idi Amin and probably made him as fucked up as he was in truth.So I suppose I agree that the list is immeasurably long and cameras were really the only thing that stopped it (video is only slightly more relevant, Vietnam and Malaya both got really hampered by cameras capturing all the attrocities) but also I don't think killing civilians is a good thing. In all cases it galvanised resistance more than it weakened it.t. Brit.
>>65078007>send soldiers to fight a police action against random guerillas/local partisans/mixed jihadists>Oh no they shot *male possible combatant*
>>65077546>>65076461I wrote a long post and goddamn 4chan ate it during the outage a few hours back, so fuck itgenerally I agree with >>65077752basically, think the Japanese internment in WW2; but nobody got their property back and the compensation was extremely inadequate.also, Malayan Chinese were actually like 95% anti-Communist. the New Villages helped prevent Communist insurgents from extorting the farmers
>>65078480>t. britSure you are, from which oblast?
>>65078632Shut the fuck up, tourist scum.
>>65073389Zion Don signed the unilateral retreat without ANA or the Afghan government involved and postponed it until the next term so he doesn't get the fallout.
>>65078480You are responding to a 16 year old, anon, he has no concept that he's just being a gay edgelord yet. He'll grow out of it (probably).>>65078090>the first shotArabs slinging shit back at you for helping kill their friends isn't unprovoked, anon. They didn't just wake up on a random Tuesday and go "Huh, let's remove the World Trade Center".If subhuman boomers and their gen X lemmings didn't support Israel, the WTC would still be there and several thousand Americans would still be alive. We wouldn't have lost in Afghanistan, and Iraq wouldn't have been a useless quagmire. Hell, our economy would probably be doing better too if we weren't stuck spending trillions on nonsense.
>>65072913you are incredibly naive if you think govts. deliver meaningful punishment against their soldiers for harming enemy civilians. Youve swallowed the media BS.
>>65073382>Have you considered that maybe it's because of sissy homosexuals like you that we lost the war?how many times in history does some fucking idiot start a war, lose it, then blame his critics. every time?
>>65073434>>65073519>Trump tells Taliban that the US is leaving Afghanistan>Agree to a date for the US to withdraw>Biden admin ignores the date and doesn't do anything to prepare to leave by said date>Show no intention of leaving>Taliban respond by going on the offensive>Panic and try to rush to leave>Listen to Taliban and bomb a humanitarian giving out waterYeah... 100% Trumps fault and not Biden for ignoring the withdrawal. But browns are gonna brown.
>>65079326He's right though. Although there were a myriad of issues in Afghanistan, the faggy social-engineering shit we did (and we did more than you can ever believe) really did not help. Respecting "international law" didn't help either>we should have been operating in Pakistan from day one
>>65079312>We>our >we
>>65079312Shut the fuck up, Bin Laden's seething had little to do with Israel. He was more mad at the Saudi government than anything.
>>65079312>Implying some dumbfuck niggas in a shithole could operate a plane and the US would be too chickenshit to blow that shit out of the sky or atleast ground it.Definitely goyim-coded. 9/11 was done by Saudi hijackers and Israeli support. With the US government allowing it to happen.
>>65079692>allowing You are just as bad as the retards who say Pearl Harbor was "allowed" to happen.I'll give you your chance. Show me how specifically America "allowed" it to happen
>>65077163So because a few number of soldiers will commit war crimes no soldier ever should go to war?
>>65080158Don't bother, these are the same people who will say Hitler dindu nuffin it was the Polish that started WW2.
>>65072913>If governments have a problem with this shouldn't they, instead of prosecuting their own soldiers, not get involved in such wars?You make it sound like things more simple than they really are.
>>65072913this dutch cunt magdumped a talib at a market, claimed he was graped and had ptsd when word got out years later and he already was awarded the highest award. They worked together in Uruzgan (see the AUS 6x6s) not much of a shitstorm in Dutch media, aside from this that has blown over.
>>65078632How was that a pro-Russian statement you fucking board tourist?I'm as pro-Ukraine as they come you wally, one of the reasons for that is I don't like rape and torture, particularly of civilians just trying to live their lives. It's called moral consistency.>>65079312I do keep seeing references to Americans having IRA phases to be fair. Also the Iraq war was justified, Saddam can go fuck himself with Satans 10ft bad dragon for reasons I listed, Uday as well. I don't buy bad faith claims from ex-Baathists about conduct of coalition forces, I'm sure some did happen but it by no means outweighs what the Baathists did for decades. People still supporting Saddam are like those guys in Uganda with Amin plastered on their taxis. The problem with Iraq was the counter-terror campaign afterwards and its mismanagement rather than the actual invasion itself.
>>65078480Britain did horribly in Malaya when you look at the casualty ratioIt took 12 years.Britain had over 451,000 troops and lost:Britain 1,443 killedPro-Britain Malaysians 1,346 killedBritish and pro-British 2,406 woundedAustralia 39 killedNew Zealand 15 killedRhodesia 8 killedCommunists had somewhat over 7000 soldiers and lost:6,710 killed226 executed1,289 wounded1,287 captured2,702 surrenderedThe British high commissioner Henry Gurney was assassinated.The top communist leaders were never killed, and the same communist leaders restarted a second communist insurgency from 1968-1989, and again never got killed.Malayan communists never had much popular support, but they managed to fight decades against a forced which outnumbered them a gazillion times and didn't lose their leadership, assassinate the high commissioner and inflict thousands of casualties on the British side.Britain also lost the Aden emergency to South Yemeni communists.
>>65082486Not sure what your point is, I think it's rather obvious my point was not that British tactics in Malaya played well. You're arguing with a point I never made. Although honestly your "counter"-argument reads like nonsense. Not that I believe the tactics used by Britain were effective or morally right.>Horrible casualty ratio1443+1346+39+15+8 = 2851 (0.63% of forces)6710+226 = 6936 (86.7% of forces, assuming 8000 total)>Top communist leaders were never killedWell generally it is the nature of insurgency that leadership is kept extremely well protected. That is part of why abusing random civilians doesn't work very well.With that said:>Lau Yew was killed in an ambush in Kajang by the Ferret Force teams on 16 July 1948>S.A. Ganapathy, the first president of the 300,000-strong Pan Malayan Federation of Trade Unions (PMFTU), was hanged on 4 May 1949>Yeung Kwo (Deputy Secretary General of the Malayan Communist Party) was ambushed and killed on 26 August 1956>Mat Indera was subsequently found guilty and hanged at 11 pm on 30 January 1953>Liew Kon Kim, In July 1952 he was killed and his corpse was publicly displayed in several locations around MalayaThat's just with me lazily copying what I remembered seeing on Wikipedia. >The British high commissioner Henry Gurney was assassinatedWell yes, but using your own logic did the Malayans manage to kill the King/Queen? or the PM? it's effectively a zero sum game at that point.I suspect a lot of your "argument" here is coming more from dislike of the British (or nationalist sentiment) because you perceived my *critique* of British COIN policy as support of it. Something seemingly not understood by people outside of Britain is actually that the majority of people don't support our historical attrocities or view Malaya/Kenya/Aden et al as a source of nationalist pride.I suspect the reason for this misunderstanding is that non-Brits would view it as a source of pride if it were the other way around.
>>65072913>dude joins your organization because you told him he could kill people>specifically train dude to go out and kill people>send dude out>dude kills people>"HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN??????"it do be like that sometimes
>>65082486>somewhat over 7000 soldiers>226+1289+1287+6710= about 7k
>>65072913>not get involved in such wars?That's actually the trick. If you're ideologically opposed to chimping out and committing war crimes, start by staying ideologically consistant and avoid starting unnecessary expeditionary wars.
>>65082893>train guy to fight fires>sometimes he has to light fires and backburn>get angry because he started buring down buildings>train guy to race cars>get angry he does 200 on main street>train guy to pump fuel>get angry when he pumps the fuel out of your tankThe job of infantry is to follow orders above all else, if they fail that they are of no use.
>>65076129That's exactly what you did to the Ho Chi Minh Trail, and the rest of Cambodia too, until it was such an unstable shithole that Khmer Rouge took it over.
>>65080858>this dutch cunt magdumped a talib at a marketSo what's the problem?
>>65082486>e Aden emergency
>>65082896Bold assumption that everyone who got killed, executed or wounded was a soldier.
>>65078594>also, Malayan Chinese were actually like 95% anti-Communist. the New Villages helped prevent Communist insurgents from extorting the farmersPeople really sleep on this. The importance of the Special Branch unit the british set up was incalculable. I remember reading that their most important detective was a chinese woman in her mid 40s whose husband was decapitated by the commies and she wanted some revenge. Apparently she was really, really motivated and really, really good at identifying and turning communist couriers, which were disproportionately young women essentially sex trafficked into the role by the communists. Her method was approaching them as a fellow courier and acting as a kind of big sister.It's a really fascinating history that has, clearly, unfortunately been weaponized by bong haters as witnessed in this thread.
>>65082878In Vietnam, the communist armed forces outnumbered the US by millions and suffered vastly more dead.In Malaya emergency, the communists were a minority and were outnumbered by Commonwealth forces, and weren't even supported by the majority of their own population but didn't have the casualties Vietnamese communists had.
>>65084001>>65082878>>65082486>KIAs as a metric of successTell me you don't understand COIN without telling me you don't understand COIN
>>65073093As an American, I don't give a shit how merciful an invading force is. I will still fight it.Now imagine some illiterate zealot in Durkastan or SEA.
>>65084001I have no idea what the relevance of Vietnam is to Malaya in the context I was discussing it (which is that it's hypocritical to post a picture with the IRA saying "i wanted to be left alone" whilst advocating attrocities as part of COIN), It seems more like you're trying to one up Britain than actually say anything logical or rational.>>65084290You see, when you actually read what I said, rather than posting illiterate nonsense you will realise that I wasn't using KIAs as a metric of success. I was pointing out that he was strawmanning and that even against a strawman his argument was shit by his own metrics.>>65082878>I think it's rather obvious my point was not that British tactics in Malaya played well. >>65084301Everyone says this before they've had to do it. History shows us time after time that people will side with whoever treats them better. One of the reasons the British Empire did hold on to power so long, where other Empires failed, was careful courting of relations between local elites.
>>65076401"Hearts and minds" isn't a one size fits all solution, because not all nations and cultures are the same. Some cultures respect mercy and restraint; others view it as weakness. You try hearts and minds on the latter, they'll think it means they're winning and press the attack. Midwits, in every single field, think there is such a thing as a one size fits all solution. There isn't.
>>65072913If all wars were wars of extermination, there would be many less wars.
>>65081006Saddam was a possible ally against Iran if we supported his autistic Babylon ambitions, and no more brutal than our other Middle Eastern friends. Think we backed the wrong side in the Iran-Iraq War, and are now coming to term with the consequences.
>>65072913If I'm 28 currently, can I enlist, train for two years, then try for selection at 30,or is it too late at that point to go drop cunts?
>>65073576Low IQ brownoid hands wrote that post.
>>65074092>>65073679>>65073653Average knower knows knowledge. Stay based king, you literally summarized all I learned while I was in and how I perceive the BRS saga.
>>65085389I don't know enough about the Iran-Iraq war politically to really comment much on it but I'm not a fan of gassing civilian towns which I seem to remember Saddam being quite famous for doing in that war? (in fact you could argue it's what led to such a heavy handed approach with later WMD claims).I get what you mean that he's not significantly worse than a lot of the other options, I am no fan of the Saudis or any of the others in that region, but also if we had supported him whose to say he wouldn't have done an Idi Amin and flipped anyway? it would be even more of an egg on face moment to repeat that sorry saga.My main point is that I don't care much that he got his shit rocked in 03 and I don't like people making up disingenuous claims about "fake" WMDs (he repeatedly violated the terms of the agreement to keep WMDs out of his hands, the UN confirmed this post-invasion which is always conveniently ignored) or spouting nonsense which ex-Baathists claimed.I would hope from my other posts at least that it's obvious I think the long term consequences weren't great and that Iraq post-Saddam was horrifically mismanaged. It's a situation where nothing good was going to happen either way and on the balance I think we could have done much worse.
>>65085494Eh. The PMF is the dominant force there. They're basically Pro-Iranian at this point. Massive L for America
>>65073019Look at how the Soviets handled insurgent groups in the Baltics and Ukraine. They were full of battle hardened insurgents in friendly territory with large caches of weapons and explosives, and material and intelligence support from NATO. The main things the Ruskies did to nip them in the bud were>offer amnesty to any partisans that willingly surrendered, rather than summarily executing them>exterminating any captured partisan and shipping their entire families to Siberia>implementing land reform that benefited the occupied population>using internal passports to control movement and anticipate possible rebel movements>laxing religious freedoms to get local churches on their side >Using internal and international spy agencies to decapitate leadership both in country and abroadThe Soviets were pretty brutal but also measured; they created an environment where most people lost their motivation to support the insurgency, local leaders were incentivized to rat out partisan groups and where individual insurgents had to face a very lopsided cost:risk analysis. At the end of the day, they could always just surrender to the Soviet army and gain amnesty rather than being forced to fight to the death because they would be offered no quarter.
I feel like I had to screen cap this stuff. It's quality content and reminds me why I came to /k/. Genuine, actual well thought out opinions based on clear knowledge and/or experience as opposed to /pol/-tier crap.
>>65072913Can I get a qrd on the incident you are clearly referring to
>>65073653At this point, I'm increasingly feeling that Special Forces were a mistake.
>>65087682Special Forces aren't a mistake. The problem was the "special" designator. In the context of the SASR, which is geographically detached from every other unit and higher command in the ADF, allowed the NCO Mafia to dig it's claws in and undermine the units mission and reptuation. To add what >>65073653 has said, I knew people in the intelligence space who worked with or knew people who worked with SASR as far back as the 70s. The corruption was plain as day even then. Military cars or "white fleets" (civilian cars in ADF service) being used as personal cars - more than just the daily officer coffee run but outright stolen and used as a personal car. Weapons and ammunition not being held to proper account, stolen goods out of a Q-store and so on. Granted this happened everywhere (and still does), but SASR was notoriously bad due to the lack of accountability on account of geography. From what I've been told, in the 90s the ADF had to send auditors to seriously unfuck the SASR and still failed to do so because of their massive boys club.SOF/SMU are just as accountable as everyone else. ADF pers are either knowingly or unknowingly agree with this, but the shit handling of it all by David Morrison, Angus Campbell and others justifiably causes people to disassociate the lower level responsibility and hyper-focus on the senior command. Death symbology gone, corporate culture in, lack of focus on Army's overall mission. This is slowly being undone but it will take another 10-20 years to really rectify it all, if at all.
>>65072913>If governments have a problem with this shouldn't they, instead of prosecuting their own soldiers, not get involved in such wars?Anon, you are assuming governments will act in good faith, prioritize the interests of their people, and hold themselves responsible for their own decisions. This is simply impossible with jews in charge.
>>65073653>>65073679>>65074092>>65085436Can yall talk more about how it seems it was well known in those circles that BRS was a massive cunt. As you got a lot of people, like Scojo, doing the podcast rounds lately singing nothing but praise for BRS and claiming that key witnesses, like Person 1, are massively biased against BRS and made it up that he's a cunt as they were harassed by him for sub par performance and endangering the troop, and eventually removed because of their performance.
>>65088075Look I wasn't there, but the Australian Army is small. It means there are a lot of stories where your-mates-old-sergeant-knew-a-guy-who-worked-with-him exist. From all I heard however, they've been nothing but negative. Apparently in one instance during Afghanistan, an AUSINT private working with SOTG got new intelligence which indicated the Taliban or w/e was going to ambush an incoming raid led by BRS. This was his first run as a patrol commander, but the AUSINT private had ultimate authority to pull the mission and did so. BRS was furious, later that day he ambushed the private in the living quarters and reportedly beat the living shit out of him.From my end, I enlisted in 2017 when all my Kapooka and Puckapunyal seccos had done multiple Afghan and Iraq tours. And I mean multiple, I had a SGT who had been with B SQN 3/4 CAV since Rawanda. At both training centres, the story of the SASR bar "The Fat Ladies Arms" was genuinely infamous for all the negative reasons. We were told about it openly by our seccos, everyone in Afghanistan knew about it as well as "Das Boot". Makes Angus Campbells claim that he "didn't know" even more suspicious. I also got exposed to 2CDO operators at Kapooka, who came down for a dog and pony with our platoon. I got talking to one of them who alluded to genuine contempt between the SOCOMD units, saying they "didn't train together as much as they should, SASR keep to themselves". Little snippets like that would appear throughout my career, where those who do genuinely know allude to SASR's elitism even within the SOCOMD community.Finally, one of my SGTs who did deploy with SOCOMD driving Bushmasters said Afghanistan "Was a paid holiday". He saw combat, sure, but the overal standard of professionalism was much lower than what the public understood. He offered one example they pulled up into a hide with their Bushmasters in a valley, put up a notional gun piquet, stripped down into their underwear and played poker for 15 hours
>>65088094Another post because I remembered something else. SOCOMD rotations had access to a lot of PEDs and illegal supplements which would otherwise be unavailable in Australia. Apparently they had an entire shipping container full of the stuff. They also had a jacuzzi hidden in a shipping container. When one of my former commanders saw it he said he was stunned, impressed they even got a working jacuzzi in the compound but also angry as the regular Army would never be given access to such luxuries. At the end of the day, how much I can confirm as fact as opposed to bullshit is really up in the air as I wasn't there. But when you keep hearing these stories and snippets of their culture, attitudes and performance, it builds a relatively convincingpicture and makes the allegations BRS probable. For my end, the Army is genuinely in a better shape professionally when I exited then when it would have been back in Afghanistan. The 2022 Ukrainian Invasion made Army absolutely panic at all levels, they realised nearly 15 years of force structure, equipment and culture was simply unfit for actual warfighting. If what people have reported on the professionalism in Afghanisan is true, then those soldiers wouldn't have lasted a week in Ukraine.
>>65088075>ScojoI still don’t know why there isn’t more uproar about that guy, yeah Brenton is the face all this shit but he never seemed to be as much as a mega cunt and faggot as Scojo
>>65077994Nta, the US either dramatically fumbled tora bora or did it on purpose
>>65079312>our economy would probably be doing better>probably Just imagine if those trillions went into domestic infrastructure instead
>>65087694I don't think you can have permanent de facto death squad units who are told they are very special without the NCO Mafia taking over. This is why I increasingly think special forces without a specific military mission have been a mistake.
>>65088368their specific military mission was to kill these guysthe real mistake was not splitting SF into two different units and keeping them separate from each other. probably one of the main reasons that NCO cabal acted out is because they knew the army couldn't do without them. having an alternative is not only good for redundancy, it also signals to both units: "you're replaceable, so don't act like you aren't"
>>65088388>their specific military mission was to kill these guys20 years of letting them kill whoever they wanted didn't actually accomplish anything. We didn't even get the theoretical benefits of having a permanent death squad formation.
>>65088964>didn't actually accomplish anythingit accomplished more than it was accomplishing without the death squad, that's the problemnobody likes to admit it, but the Gitmo methods worked, that was why SOCOM continued to interrogate jihadis
>>65088970>it accomplished more than it was accomplishing without the death squad, that's the problemIt would appear to have accomplished less than the advocates of torture and death squads would like to admit, given its failures in the Israeli occupation of Lebanon, and the American occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.The only COIN campaign in recent memory where it would appear to have worked was in Xinjiang, and frankly a lot of the specifics of how the PLA ran that ship are quite opaque.
>>65088984>given its failureshow would you know it failed?just because they lost the war?how do you know that if they had not done all that, they would have actually won?
>>65088995>just because they lost the war?The Israelis and the Americans they influenced had 40 years to prove it gave them a war-winning edge. The actual result is 40 years of embarrassing defeats, messy withdrawals, and sunk cost fallacies writ large.
>>65089035>devolve into sweeping generalitiesand there ends all pretence of an intellectual discussion
>>65089242You're the one making up counterfactuals to prove that a technique conferred a strategic advantage.
How come units like Delta or KSK or brit SAS dont run afoul of incestuous organisational/cultural death spirals? Just a healthy structure and good people? 2 squadron got disbanded but not 1 or 3 but it seems like all 3 squadrons, tucked into a little beach base away from the two other major metro army bases would have risked the same rot.
>>65087682If you try to make a military unit do everything without specialization, you end up with the Streltsy. You don't want the Streltsy.
>>65090909They are actually even worse. The difference is their governments aren't holding them to account like Australia is to our SASR. >2 squadron got disbanded but not 1 or 3They're all in the same boat but 2, from my understanding, was always the worst of the lot. Remember the Army heads wanted to disband the lot of them, but their capability was too great to ditch the entire unit. Don't forget 4 SQN which may/may not be located in the same vicinity as the rest. I'm not sure what's happening with them, maybe 4 is the new 2? Or they're still kept seperate for whatever they do.
>>65090929>Just let loose 3 squadrons worth of unemployed sasr into societycapability or liability
>>65090934Both frankly.
>>65085389Hard disagree. The Ayatollahs deserve everything they've ever gotten and more, but Saddam proved himself to be a mad dog with the Kuwait shit. He was going to be a perennial problem, and his shitheel kids were going to plunge the whole region into chaos anyway when they took over and inevitably fumbled the bag and set one of the most powerful countries in the region on the Syria/Somalia path.The Saudis are the model Arab ally: treacherous sure, but always aware of the hand that feeds and careful not to bite it. Saddam turned on us practically overnight. That's a bad sign, and we should've finished the job then rather than waiting 12 years with bullshit justifications.
>>65091115I fully agree with you, but hardly nobody thinks on the grand scale like thatthey don't see how much work having those countries as giant terrorist training camps actually meant for us in the long run, they think second-world regimes keep to themselves and aren't constantly on the attack, sponsoring all kinds of terrorism and propaganda and infiltrators
>>65091115>>65091120+7000 has been successfully added to your bank account. Keep up the good work!
>>65090909>brit SAS dont run afoul of incestuous organisational/cultural death spiralsahahahahhahahahaahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahaha>>65091115This was exactly what I meant by comparing him to Idi Amin. Well articulated.>>65091184We've found the last surviving Baathist Saddam loyalist with internet access and he's here on 4chan! when did you get demobbed from the Fedayeen?
>>65085494Nta but I'm someone who knows a lot about WMDs in Iraq The issue with the WMDs in Iraq there was credible evidence that sadam still had his chemical weapons, but that meant something a lot different to the assessors and everyone in politics and in the news. Although it turned out he had actually ditched most of his chemical weapons. Sadam's refusal to allow inspectors in to verify, and satellite pics showing the facilities were still there and fully operational both indicated that Sadam still had his weapons. It turned out Sadam had actually gotten rid of the vast bulk of these weapons, but also didn't want to admit he lost them to both deter internal dissent, as well as to not lose face by having to yield the west under pressure, since he thought bush was bluffing. It was highly likely at the time that Sadam still had chemical weapons if you looked at the evidence without hindsight. However these 'WMDs' are a lot different that what comes to mind when people think the Intel claimed.Problem was after that report the Germans infamously fucked up their humint with screwball which was where basically any notion of a new weapons program or intent to use WMDs came from. The US didn't try to cross verify that shit at all, which would have been incredibly easy. That's because a literal rando told them everything they wanted to hear, and Bush wanted a war anyway and the whole NCS didn't do their due diligence planning for Iraq because they were riding on the high of the successes of early jawbreaker in Afghanistan. Add a news media that took the reports that sadam might still have the same shit he had for decades as "nook nook" and MIC incentives, and that's how WMDs became the snafu, despite being based on rather credible evidence.So US messaging insisted that there was a growing and major threat to the region, because they wanted it to be true when the only credible reports were basically like "he probably still has kurd spray"
>>65091115Say what you will about the Assads, (to be clear I loathe them). But even those fucks we more calculated with their brutality and were at least stable actors until bashar shat the bed in 2011. Saddam had completely lost the plot, and could not be trusted whatsoever. The problem with assessing the Saudis you can't deal with them as a whole. Their terror funding elites and the elites who work with Mr beast or whatever are diametrically opposed to each other, active and possess their own power bases. Most of them are cousins, and thus do not directly kill each other that often. Their endless squabbling has given us the schizophrenia of Saudi actions, because there is fundamentally probably a dozen cliques of ludicrously wealthy and retarded cliques all with global influence. No matter what deals you strike in Riyadh someone is going to go behind the sultan's back.Granted things seem to have changed for now. It took MBS decades to get a grip over the state, but now that he has it things seemed to be leveling off. Only question is if his retarded investments will piss off all his half brothers and some other prince will take his place and everyone starts squabbling again.
>>65090909>DeltaLol lmao
>>65085319The Iberians were the Muslims of Europe. They revolted when Napoleon modernised the country, abolished the Inquisition and replaced their inbred monarchs. The French were thanked with flayings, burnings, torture and a horrifically brutal guerilla war. Iberians are NOT white.
>>65091390You can't just call everyone you brutalize and don't like "not white"
>>65091350Well yes I pretty much agree with all of that.The actual "WMDs" found were very different to what people picture (which is largely nuclear and biological). That's why I mentioned "he repeatedly violated the terms", to try emphasise that I wasn't saying he had active bio weps ready to fire on Tel Aviv but rather he wasn't complying with the terms laid out which to my mind gives fair enough reason to justify the invasion (and also because I'm not going to pretend to be impartial and claim I don't have extreme disgust for Saddam and his regime, those fuckers deserved to be on a short leash).Iirc most of it was rocket boosters, some forgotten/lost/stolen chem shells (like you say), some expired growth media and I think they also dug up some nuclear plans from a scientists back garden who had been involved with that program (?).I think people now do look back with hindsight (and also with a somewhat delusional view of Saddams Government) and through their own inexperience with the actual terms of what he was/wasn't allowed to have they go "ye the west just all made it up for oil and/or gold" which is the grosest oversimplification possible and ignores the very real context that Saddam was a fucking nutjob who was on a short leash for very good reasons. A context mostly ignored because the people saying these things are doing so in bad faith and aren't actually mad that it was a "lie" they're mad that their favourite dictator got got and need a reason to cope about it.
>>65091390Based Iberians
>>65072913i dont care about war crimes and neither should you
>>65091891Several mobile bio labs were also found, all scrubbed completely clean. Some Iraqi generals also reported the moving of most of the chemical weapons programs to Syria prior to the invasion.
>>65094006I vaguely remember hearing things about this actually now you mention it, but I never saw the citation.You're probably aware of the UN report I was quoting from but I don't recall seeing the bio labs in there.What's the source?
>>65091115>He was going to be a perennial problem, and his shitheel kids were going to plunge the whole region into chaos anyway when they took over and inevitably fumbled the bag and set one of the most powerful countries in the region on the Syria/Somalia path.God imagine if Uday got the big seat, say what you will about Bashir Al-Assad but even he was not as much of a fuckup as Uday Hussein
SASR or Commandos?Which Aussie SF unit is better?
>>65094567>CommandosI don't even know who they are
>>65094567Worked with both (I was not SPECFOR, support element and occasionally played bad guy against them)2CDO boys were pretty down to earth, switched on and were fun to talk shit with.SASR were highly competent and highly up themselves Neither is better, they do different things
>>65095515Oh and the SOER boys were ok, didn't really do much with them at all besides some enemy party shit
>>65088970>Gitmo methods workedWhat terror attacks has torture prevented? Serious question
>>65090909In addition to the others clowning on you, I would just like to mention that the Germans also have to fumigate their elite forces every few years for ideological reasons
>>65091115The Iraq war was a grievous error with results that undermined American interests in nearly every metric
>>65094006>reported the moving of most of the chemical weapons programs to Syria prior to the invasion.Too convenient of a narrative for the neocon agenda to be remotely believable on its face
>>65094304It was in the newspapers at the time, complete with pictures of the units and the interiors. If I remember right they were working on anthrax, rinderpest and a few other animal diseases.
>>65072913No.If an upitty third world nation simply needs to find out, we should just delete their power and water, then dust all their crops to death.And leave.Fucking seeethe, I don't care.You asked about a war and I showed you.
>>65095535>Serious questionvirtually any progress at all in the GWOTyou read of all those jihadis being bumped off the Most Wanted deck?all the raids of enemy safehouses that SOCOM were doing?most of the intel was from interrogationit had a snowball effect as they could work their way through the network, and as the documents they seized from each target yielded more and more intel
>>65095515Is it true that there’s currently no difference between the two? I’ve heard that the only reason why 2CDO was created was because the Australian high command wanted a SF unit they could control, due to the fact they had lost all control over the SASR.
Bump
>>65077117"You don't understand, I HAVE to act like a subhuman nigger, because I'm a BASED white male!!!"Your skin can be whatever color God painted you, your soul is still brown
>>65078090>he thinks 9-11 was unprovoked and unprecedentedlmao you dumb fuck, we've been blowing up dune coons for decades.Hell, a few years before 9-11, there was even a Muslim truck attack on the WTC.What's it like being retarded?
>>65072913When the U.S. has waged overt counter insurgency "wars", like Vietnam, Iraq, A-stan, they've never been about winning, they've been about generating profits. Global banking profits by issuing loans and getting it all back with interest, global and national industrialists in defense, energy, and logistics profit by getting contracts for war supplies, and finally, politicians profit by getting kickbacks from all the above. Killing civilians is likely to increase the desire of the civilian population to end the war, hence the politicians do everything they can, including punishing soldiers, to prevent the end of the wars.The only U.S. counter insurgency wars that are meant to be won are those conducted covertly via CIA and foreign 3rd parties that do the actual fighting. We rarely hear anything about those, however.
Australia should just disband the SASR. Commandos can do their role just as good as them.It’s time we get rid of these retarded bong larping apes for once and for all and it’s best to do it before they chimp out again.
>>65072913>>65072992There's no need for brutality. Just establish martial law and have transgressing civilians executed in drumhead court-martials. If they don't like it, they should fight in uniform to get protected status as a POW instead.
>>65099260Even if you weren't full of shit totally ignoring the geopolitical need for these wars, and the complicating factors that lead to their prolonging, the potential profits from war are barely more than a rounding error of the US civilian economy, which does far better without the uncertainties and stress of warFaggot
>>65097265>I’ve heard that the only reason why 2CDO was created was because the Australian high command wanted a SF unit they could control, due to the fact they had lost all control over the SASR.Nah. I had the good fortune of knowing people who transitioned from 4 RAR during the period as well as chatting to both people who came across from the west to help set it up and people on the political side who were adjacent to the decision to stand it up. It was like, 75% needing a full time professional TAG-E in general and specifically for the Olympics, 25% just needing more SF both black and green role in general. Perth to the East coast is more than 5 hours in a commercial jet, more like 7 hours in a C130, and you could run into a bit of a capacity pretty quickly if someone did a terrorism in Sydney and then hijacked an LNG rig off the WA coast a few hours later. 7 hours is a long time for something like a Munich games massacre to unfold in front of cameras.
>>65087682>At this point, I'm increasingly feeling that Special Forces were a mistake.>>65088368>This is why I increasingly think special forces without a specific military mission have been a mistake.Based and Slimpilled. He actually specifically calls it out in the conclusion of Defeat into Victory as a bad idea. He basically said that it would build unaccountable fiefdoms and severely degrade regular units by depriving them of their best men and resources, and by creating lists of perfectly ordinary infantry tasks they could not and were not to do. He said there was a place for specialised types of infantry units, where the cost and scarcity of equipment and training for the role necessitated it (ie parachute infantry), but that the idea of raising elite conventional or special forces was counterproductive and would produce armies less capable of winning wars. He basically said that long range recon, sabotage, etc, were things that intelligence agencies ought to do, not armies, and that, as a general, if you wanted to do that stuff then you either didn't know how to do your job properly or what your job was.
>>65100019NAYRT but Slim's main beef was not so much the role of SF but the fact that so many personnel were given to SF in his theatre, which accomplished less in the grand strategy of things than the numbers suggest.An entire brigade of men were made SF at a time when Slim was struggling to field six or seven brigades that weren't under-strength. when you expand a professional army into a conscript army, the impact of taking away highly-experienced soldiers to SF has massive impact.when you expand an army in this way, squad leaders suddenly find themselves leading platoons. that's bad enough but then consider that if 1 in 5 of these best are made SF, now fuly 20% of your army might be made up of completely clueless conscript mongs.And furthermore, the Army didn't quite understand that running 1 battalion-sized SF operation does not have the same huge impact as running 30 squad-sized SF operations. the diminishing returns curve bites real hard for SF.They made the same mistake in Europe with the Commando battalions.
>>65100127Slim's main beef was that it made ordinary units worse by making them think that operations that should have been ordinary were beyond them. I dug up my copy.1/4
>>65100161it's sideways, deeply uncool 2/4
>>65100164I'm not fixing it though. 3/4
>>651001664/4 he's describing OSS shit here, although if you wanted to you could claim he's describing modern SF, though the lines are very blurry
>>65100166>I'm not fixing it thoughSo long as you know why I'm not reading it.
>>65099521Sure, rabbi. Sure.
>>65073093>rationalAnon, I...Also, what happens when your insurgents get sponsored from outside your country?
>>65076514>By securing all basic necessities like food and water, you can force the local presence into compliance over pain of starvationthat would be very bad for optics, israel literally just tried this with gaza and look where it got them
>>65076627>The British raped the entire India and most of Africa and yet they couldn't fought back and eventually had to wait for the British to leavetheir only option was either be ruled by bongs or arabs. like the other anon said: try to be the lesser cunt
>>65101317>look at what happenedNothing that’s whatNothing happened in the state actor levelEverybody can talk shit about Israel all they want but nobody has sanctioned them or stopped weapon procurement Feelings were hurt but nobody cares about feelings. Only action matters >>65100270
>>65101333>nobody has sanctioned them or stopped weapon procurementdemonstrably false, but keep burying your head in the sands i guess
>>65088094>Jumping the intel guy that had the audacity to not get you ambushedNo idea why this cunt had a bad reputation. Truly a mystery.
>>65101333>Only action mattersPretty sure you're quoting a different post and conversation than you meant to.
>>65099378If the punishments for both the minor infraction and treason are death, then the calculus becomes obey or rebel and nothing in between.
>>65077994Wishful thinking.98% of the world just spreads this shit because they are disingenuous intellectually-dishonest scum who want this to be the answer.
>>65077833>>65101636
>>65101536Please understand, he just got a bit too passionate in defending Israel it shuts down his cognitive functions for a moment. G-d bless him
>>65088350The dramatic fumbling of Tora Bora in multiple ways at multiple levels is pretty well documented. Not to say that any of what they were trying to do was easy, but it got fucked up in most of the ways that it could have. Some of it is genuinely surprising, but most of the surprise comes from expecting the CENTCOM, JSOC and SAD of 2001 to be as proficient in killing and capturing terrorists as they were in 2011 after a decade of practice and trying to make up for Tora Bora.
>>65083040>it's our fault the North Veitnamese destabilized multiple countries in their war of conquest Wew lad.
>>65095563>on it's faceLook at the rate of birth defects in that area, it's fucking bonkers.
>>65095550No. The grievous error was not hitting the anti war movement with the Patriot Act and pretty much making them unpersons. >own property or stocks?>nope >want to go to college or other technical school >nope>own guns >nope>vote >nope>travel without a passport >nope
>>65100019>slimWrong about everything and if it weren't for the US that fucker would have lost Burma and India.
>>65101157Seethe.
>>65072992The United States just bombed a fucking girls school
>>65101887>justAny evidence besides "it totally happened bro!"
>>65101888amnesty international's reporthttps://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/u-s-responsible-for-killing-over-100-children-in-iran-school-attack/
>>65101880Indeed, the heroic contributions of 12,000 troops out of 1,300,000 under the command of Stillwell and Merrill (the two most incompetent and retarded US generals of the entire war) overshadow the achivements of the rest of the 14th Army and Slim. Everyone who actually studies war is totally wrong: The 14th and Slim were frauds and America did all the work.Impressively, despite only deploying 3000 combat troops and losing only 15% of them in combat against the Japanese, they suffered an 80% casualty rate, having achieved very little at all of military importance by their sacrifices and privation. They really showed everyone how jungle warfare was done and set the bar for their infantry performance in Vietnam.But most impressive of all is that despite all of this someone would take to the internet to trumpet the achievements of the USA in WWII Burma of all places.
>>65101990>the achievements of the USA in WWII Burmashitposting aside, probably the USAAF in all areas, fighter and transport
>>65103155nomies (epstein) put /pol/ in 4chin to ruin it yes
>>65103155Why are you so fucking ugly and dysgenic? Did your platoonmates turn you in because you were just a weird freak everyone hated?
>>65103155/pol/ died in 2020, you brown leftoid faggot.
>>65103172>>65103167Nobody gives a fuck you weirdo.
>>65103200Stop sperging Robert, you weird ugly freak.
>>65103278>>65103167>>65103172>>65103200>I sperged so much, literally at all times of the day and night, and demanded people show guns so much that everyone stopped caring>somehow this is everyone's fault but mine>I documented my fail with two giant boring images nobody cares about or will even look at Kek, what is this kind of self-inflicted humiliation ritual called?
>>65103310You did this lol. Clearly it was your favorite thing to do, you overused it and acted the prick and now nobody cares. It was a great game for a while though, right? Say any bullshit you like, throw out any bait and someone would take it, you'd go "post guns" and claim victory.But now you did it too often and nobody wants to play anymore.Hubris in action.
>>65103155Get the fuck off my board retardThis is an anime website not /pol/ website.
>>65103399Shut the fuck up you tiresome faggot. You act like it's still 2016 and you reddit refugees just arrived. Imagine using the word "cuck" in 2026 lol.
>>65103399Post gun
>>65101317The guerilla problem in Gaza is effectively ended.
I hope ben roberts smith faces his war crime charges purely because he's been such a pussy over it
>>65103399Why would I call you a chud/commie? I don't give a fuck about what brand of gay political autism you subscribe to. I hate 2016 board tourist poltards infesting this board.You've had your brain so fried by political discourse you can't even imagine somebody disliking you for any reason other than ideology. You behave like a child, with zero accountability for your own behaviour, you go "it's not my fault everyone thinks I'm an annoying cunt!"
>>65103155>>65103167>>65103172>>65103180>>65103237Hiiiiiiii Robert Where ya been buddy? You've been missing out on the 4-5 Week Special Military Operation to De-Mullahify Iran!
>>65105462I know what it means I'm asking why I would mention it when my entire point is that I think all politics are gay as fuck.I deliberately avoid /pol/ which is exactly why I hate seeing it on this board.I don't have a habit of calling people chuds because I don't care about your politics and I don't feel a need to try hard to blend in with a board I've been visiting since long before 2016 election tourists turned up.
>break the law(s of war)>get shot you should not mourn the cowardly negros that do this
>>65101472Literally. Now BRS is so ingrained into the manosphere so the psuedo-homosexual glaze is real. Some influencers are one step away from doing cum-tributes if what they've been saying is anything to go by. >>65104856Honestly this. He's been such a fucking faggot about the whole thing he unironically deserves to get found guilty.
>>65087677Thanks anonDiscussions like that are why I still come to this place, in spite of the flood of shit that are most of the posts
>>65101867tbf they're also all inbred as shit
>>65107754It sounds to me like by most measures he's simply not the kind of soldier you want to be encouraging. Like even if you don't give a fuck either way about the war crime charges, this is just shitty soldiering.
>>65101888the video of the tomahawk crashing into the base right next to it while smoke is already rising from the school? strike planner fucked up and didn't check google maps, it's not like it's some unheard of impossible scenario
>>65101877Chickenhawks are only good for fertilizer
>>65073376wake up man you gotta respond to that guy you look like a loser he linked something that says you're a liar and everything
>>65111416I agree. The problem with the Afghan Wars in an Army cultural sense, imho, was it convinced people modern war was going to be a BDE fighting a FOB war where you would do a mission and chill playing video games after. As a tank crewman so many diggers would say "HUURR WE NEED TO DO A FOB EX THE ABRAMS ISN'T CUT OUT FOR BUSH BASHING LIKE WE DO" when it is literally the opposite. The Abrams is designed to fight a fucking nuclear war in any environment with a stretched logistic train. An Abrams can be run into the ground with it's cooling tubes exposed, using binoculars as a fucking gun sight and still keep fighting. For my first four years, people begged for a FOB ex. We did 3 days in a field exercise doing FOB operations, when reality hit home for people how gay it was it was never bought up again. But people were convinced their heckin' FOB exercises in support of SF like Cowa Dooty was the ultimate career aspiration.The glaze was real and now I think the Ukraine War has hit home what real soldiering looks like. It also redefines what being "elite" is. It's less of a beret and more of a mindset. That said, being a black hat was the best experience I've ever done, I'm super proud over what I've done and how I did it. I desired to fight Chyna, not Afghan and in doing so I kept a conventional war spirit alive and set the preconditions for future success. Arguably more than anything BRS has done as a net positive.
>>65121234Interesting how the moro terrorists only attacked the Philippines once it started getting successful and moving away from the western block.
>>65072998>The way you win is how the British defeated the Boersthey did this by having an army multiple times larger than the population of the entire country
>>65123594NAYRT but you're confusing the forest for the treesthey had a large army, but what did the army do? the army didn't just sit in firebases all daythey isolated the borders, cut off supplies, monitored the movements of everyone in the country, and eliminated the Boer leadership corpsthat's the only proven playbook for dealing with insurgencies
>>65123581Are you confusing countries here?
>>65088388> having an alternative is not only good for redundancy, it also signals to both units: "you're replaceable, so don't act like you aren't"From my armchair, I’m inclined to agree with this. Having a rival (like DEVGRU vs Delta, or SAS vs SBS), even if the units’ specialties and primary missions differ, is good for motivation. Gets you thinking not just “we’re the best”, but “we’re the best because we’re even better than those other guys.” When there’s nobody to compete against it’s easy to get complacent at the top.
>>65123601They also invented the modern day concentration camp. So there's that.
>>65101877>I am a retarded faggot and I beg for a federal boot on my neckFuck off, zoomer.
>>65124667>They also invented the modern day concentration campAncient civilisations did it too.>Then Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard carried away captive certain of the poor of the people, and the residue of the people that remained in the city, and those that fell away, that fell to the king of Babylon, and the rest of the multitude. But Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard left certain of the poor of the land for vinedressers and for husbandmen.>...>Thus Judah was carried away captive out of his own land.
>>65072913Both of these sound like excuses designed to pass the buck to me. Have the fucking balls to take responsibility for your own actions.
>>65099378this doesn't work in the real world. look at Bucha. doesn't matter what you do, the other side will make you look as barbaric as possible
>>65124709I'm just saying, neglecting to mention extreme population control is a bit disingenuous.
>>65076722Saar please read what you post.
>>65124757I did not mean it to be, I filed it under>monitored the movements of everyone in the countryand not because I'm downplaying concentration camps, but rather I'm "upplaying" movement controlswhich I feel is an important comparison, given recent developments
>>65083274>constable pussytight
>>65072913I liked Sherman's approach of razing any civilian infrastructure between him and his objective while daring the civilians to fire back. Nobody but butthurt southies complained about it, and those dumb fucks who keep saying "I'm not a military asset I just feed and supply the army trying to shoot at you :)" get their comeuppance.
>>65076276That is actually a wild picture. Fucking unreal, proper nigger-tier behaviour.
>>65072992Cool it with the antisemitism, you fucking faggot. I know what you're implying.
>>65129397
>>65128157Sherman's hard war is proof you can target the enemy's necessities without going full edgelord, but it requires a competent intelligence arm to figure out which farms are feeding the enemy's forces and which farms are just farms. You have to get down there and get to know the locals, which is what modern forces have been failing on for the past 40~ years.
>>65072913Just round up all military aged males and certain/ question them until you have found and publicly executed all insurgents.
>>65129428>You have to get down there and get to know the locals, which is what modern forces have been failing on for the past 40~ years.Indeedthe bongs used to be pretty good at thatbut that baby was thrown out along with the colonialism bathwaternow they're as insufferable in their own unique way as the Americans, just in the other direction
>>65073422I wouldn't have guessed that was a dude from that pic. Am I cooked?
>>65129404
