The Shahed has RETVRNED to its rightful inventors.
I sense a disturbance in the interwebs.It is as if billions of thirdies posted in outrage and fear, and were suddenly droned.
>>65078095Do not redeem drone saar!
>>65078079why did they make it look like a big black dildo
>>65078379Its meant to fuck your enemies!
>>65078079Is that a tall man or is zelensky short?
>>65078424both actually
>>65078379>make vaguely dick shaped object pink>OMG, WTF, WHY DID YOU MAKE IT PINK>make vaguely dick shaped object black>OMG, WTF, WHY DID YOU MAKE IT BLACK
>>65078079>thread about drones AND modern German equipmentThis thread is going to be a complete shitshow, I can already tell.
>>65078435>>65078463Good morning saar
>>65078424Friedrich Merz is 1.98mVolodymyr Zelenskyy is 1.67m
>>65078079
>>65078424Merz is tall and Zensky is short.
>>65078463Sir, you're not supposed to vape windex.
Why the fuck does everyone ape the dorito?It's only good for its compactness, short wings suck dick for range ie. efficient flight
>>65079712Compactness makes launchers easy.Alternatives are Folding wings, expensive and takes much time to develop.Detachable wings, takes time to prepare launch and crew can fuck up drone when attaching wings.
RuMoD and Medvedev already seethed about “muh legal targets in Urop, aaaaa, stop supplying Ukraine or we nuke U”
>>65079766Yeah but nobody actually launches like that nowadays.Just give it some long slender detachable wings and you could upload the payload, range, or speed for free.>Folding wings, expensive and takes much time to develop.>Detachable wings, takes time to prepare launch and crew can fuck up drone when attaching wings.Folding and/or detachable and/or multi part wings are a very basic engineering problem with numerous tested and true solutions.
>>65079712Not him, but are there advantages for using propellers over rocket boosters?
>>65079809>, but are there advantages for using propellers over rocket boosters?What are you talking about? Shaheds have piston engine driven propeller for flight and rocket booster for take off.
>>65079786I think optimal solution would be top wing and make it one piece detachable. Flat top of the drone and attach it via 4 big bolts. Minimal and simple work for ground crew. Aerodynamics of sausage body plus long straight wing indeed would have better drag/lift ratio.But it still massively cuts drone launch numbers from single platform and extends preparation that is concern if your launch sites are under attacks.
>>65079852Yes that is one solutionHowever, an efficient wing will be 4 meters or more long so it would be better to disassemble it into two or three parts.>But it still massively cuts drone launch numbers from single platform and extends preparation that is concern if your launch sites are under attacks.I really don't think that should be a concern since a launch site can be anywhere your launch van decides to stop and it's deep on friendly territory.
>>65078079>mini-Shahednot reallyit has a slightly lower payload than a Geran 2, and a little less range (per spec though)i doubt that there will be operational differences (other than the German/Ukraine one actually working every time)even better>Germany just announced 4billion€ defense grant for Ukraine>mostly to be spend on German Ukraine joint venture production in Germany to be delivered to Ukraineeven crazier, the price for the Auterion/Airlogix is about ~39k€ produced in Munich, the most expensive German citywhich is lower than russian domestic production kekalso skynode is genuinely cool tech
>>65078079Kek. This is like when Ming dynasty China adopted samurai swords and called it a wodao.
>>65079884>However, an efficient wing will be 4 meters or more long so it would be better to disassemble it into two or three parts.Unnecessary complexity and weight (single solid part is stronger). Until you length is above 6 meters (cargo length for euro medium trucks) you don't really need shortening.>I really don't think that should be a concern since a launch site can be anywhere your launch van decides to stop and it's deep on friendly territory.There is plenty of videos of Ukrianians drones hitting lancet teams when they erect launcher on technical and put drone on it.
>>65080005Yes, we're quite americanized indeed here.
>>65080696Sorry our #1 Song is a country song about Texas now. Euros are once again 10 years behind the curve.
I still dont get the hype around these things when you could just buck break these slow flying, what are essentially, target drones.
>>65079712More space to stuff fuel I guess.
>>65079922Wut? The Germans are Japan in this case.
>>65080893They fly high and go for civilian targets, not stuff defended by AA of any kind.
>>65078079>to its rightful inventors.the south african one is the OG anon
>>65078079Range on these things and warhead? Too lazy to google
>>65081329Probably comparable to shahed. The physics of it are the same in germany, russia or iran.
>>65081327>the south african one is the OG anon??which would be?to my knowledge Dornier DAR was the first one that looked like this>>65081329>Range on these things and warhead?20-40kg warhead (vs 30-50kg Geran 2 with a 90kg option but rarely used)1500km range (vs 2500km Geran 2, with heavy warhead it's only 1000km)price will be similartargeting, GNSS and comm should be significantly betterproduction will start at ~1k/month (Geran 2 is speculated at ~30k/month)but planned to quickly ramp up to ~5k/month
>>65082705>to my knowledge Dornier DAR was the first one that looked like thisthe dar came 5 years later to the ard 10people just dont know about it because it never went to production they only had 5 prototypes
>>65081144No. They'd be the Chinese in the analogy. The Yamato came from the mainland with Chinese swords. They eventually developed nihonto endemic to their culture. Chinese then developed their traditional dao into wodao after seeing what the Japs were able to make.
>>65078424He tall.
>>65082982>the dar came 5 years later to the ard 10uhh absolutely not...Dronier DAR was formally presented in 1985Project start was in 1980which came from the LOCUST program, started in the 70salso joint program between the US and Germany (mainly Dornier and Northrop)pic related is 1977the Kentron ARD-10 was a secret until it's sale in 1989and even if Germany knew (due to under the table relations), the development of the ard-10 started in the mid 1980s, likely at the same time the Dornier DAR was formally publishedso stop talking bullshitDornier DAR was the first.
>>65083149Kinda hard not to feel like the Übermensch when you're surrounded by manlets.
>>650831992/2 more designsif you're more interested>https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/us-german-harassment-drone-locust-dar-designs.29312/which are the only images you can see onlineotherwise just visit>Dornier Museum Friedrichshafenif you ask nicely they let you look at old records, they have a big archive with drawings / technical documentsno photos thoughthey actually have a bunch of drawings of the DAR dated on the early 80s>t. been there twicethe other option>Bundesarchiv Abteilung Militärarchivit's in Freiburgthe cool ones are>Bestand BV 5>Bestand BV 7they're very stingy with the 60 year classificationand you have to make an appointmentotherwise free unlimited access as German citizen, not sure how it's handled for foreigners though
>>65083199>Dornier and NorthropWhy can't these two ever be just normal?The only way to make this worse would be to resurrect Blohm & Voss.
>>65083199>Kamikaze-Einsatzehuh, someone already described them as kamikaze drones in 1977? can we drop the term one-way attack drone already, it sounds gay as fuck.
>>65083247>someone already described them as kamikaze dronesyesbut they were also described as>Einweg Fluggerätso one way dronethe differentiation always comes because there were versions for surveillance that flew only one way completely and should be picked up on landing "somewhere"kamikaze were the versions that actually explodedthe AD saturation variants were also designed for reuse
>>65079941A Lancet is completely different from pseudo cruise missile doritos.I've only seen dorito launchers get hit in Iran.
>>65078079Why are they making this variant? The Russians are supplementing these with turbojets because these are quickly becoming obsolete except against unprepared militaries.
>>65083228Blohm & Voss still exist, but nowadays they build megaluxury yachts for literal and figurative rich niggers.
>>65083735Unlike the hohols/wectoids, ziggers don't have light AA worth shit. All their AA guns are garbage, and using Igla/Verba on doritos is a net loss.
>>65083735>The Russians are supplementing these with turbojetstrythey try to supplement them or rather replace themGeran 3 is based on a chinese 300kg turbojetit's ~20k€ for the turbine alone (someone even found them on alibaba kek)another 5-10k for everything aroundthe Geran 2 motor costs like 2-3k, so 1/10ththey also can't source them in the same quantitieslikely <10k/year and that's already outrageously optimisticif they make more than 10 Geran 3 per day i'd be surprisedon the other hand, they also got a significantly bigger warhead...Ukraine apparently has a high speed interceptor readybut it's still harder to catch them with the higher speed + altitude>because these are quickly becoming obsoletecompletely falsemiddle strikes from Ukraine are mostly transport vehiclesa few days a russian mil blogger said 80% of losses are on the WAY to the frontthe front is very long and impossible to cover with air defensethe only way to defend against them realistically is with cheap interceptors, which need good placement i.e. intelligenceUkraine currently just has significant better intelligencethey are far from obsolete
>>65079786Thin slender wings if they're good are more expensive. They are single purpose can't be filled with fuel, the wing spar has to be strong and stiff, best carbon fiber. There is an assembly interface at the wing base that has to be to high standard with tensile bolts and flanges. Wrapping a fuel balloon shaped like a fat delta wing in composite the stresses are less - can substitute for cheaper FRP, use less, add electronic bullshit on different surfaces easier with shorter wire runs.
>>65083735>Why are they making this variant?Because 1-way attack drones are fantastic for mass bombarding underdefended facilities and enemy positions. Especially if you are able to throw 100s at them at a single location. Throwing thousands of these at the rear lines of your enemy could render their front lines either frozen where they stand or so fragile that they are forced to either retreat of their own violation or shattered while under pressure from friendly advances.
>>65084219Geran 2 motors are selling for $10-17k now, the Geran 5 turbojets are ~$60-70,000. Russia can't make engines for shit anymore apparently, the Geran 2 Russian made motors are crap, worse than the Iranian-made ones, and Russia is having to buy its telefly turbojets and other components from Chinese sources.
>>65078379More importantly: why did (You) notice?
>>65078666Forgot the Kentron ARD-10
How can I capitalize on the Shehedization of warfare? What companies make the components for these here in the west?
>>65080893
Already in Ukraine btw. They gave it to the chud brigade.
>>65088662Excellent.
>>65078379
>>65086852>Geran 2 motors are selling for $10-17k nowwhat??how are they so expensivefor that price you get the original Limbach L550E (which the Shahed is copied after)not only fucking made in Germany but also outperforms it in any way (mind you that thing was designed in the 80s), also pricing probably even lower if you buy in quantitiesMicroPilot or Zongshen should have engines for <5k in this category freely availabledid they suddenly stop trading with China?alsoeven Limbach, Hirth or 3W produce engines <10ki think 3W is the supplier for the Airlogix / Auterion one, with unit costs somewhere around that 2-3k€ range>Geran 5 turbojets are ~$60-70,000but it's also significantly larger than Geran 2 / 3so not surprised, kinda expected
>>65083228>resurrect Blohm & Voss.Anon I... B&V' aircraft division got bought my Messerschmitt which then got folded into DASA with Dornier among others.Which all then got merged into Airbus.You know the guys currently working on pic related.
>>65088908Yeah great thank you for reminnding me.That means that in some unholy, hopefully sealed and warded cellar archive all these asymmetric abominations lie waiting.
>>65086852Are those prices for used ones or new ones?
>>65091132New, in Russia. Their industry is spiralling.
>>65086852That is a horrible price. I"m waiting for the automobile sized drone. In other words a drone that makes use of tweaked commodity typical automobile engines. So something around 2 liters 250 horsepower. Implies figures around 350kph, 1.5 tonne, 7 meter wingspan. 3-500 kg warhead its like a cheap SCALP. It will need a rocket launch.
>>65091215So, basically a Cessna. Nobody uses automotive engines in aircraft because they suck -- too much weight, usually liquid cooled, aren't designed to run constantly under near-maximum power. The exception used to be those Mazda Wankel engines, because they had a high power-to-weight ratio and were dirt cheap, but the apex seals made them unreliable.The new rotary engines by LiquidPiston (dumb name for an engine company, desu) are supposedly an improvement (no need for those apex seals) but they're not available on the civilian market AFAIK.
>>65088621>>65080893Not to be that guy, but people handcranked guns to shoot at bombers in WWII targeted with a radar targeted by a mk2 eyeball, good luck and the worlds first radar system. There is no fucking way there is not a feasible, cost effective solution that would upgrade all gun based AA systems a way to target and shoot them down. The only argument I could accept is that bargain bin EW already screws them up without requiring a hardkill solution to begin with.
>>65088908And those arrogant frog and muttniggers say that germans dont have experience in building jets.
>>65091396Modern homebuilts are often car engines. Chevrolet and Subaru engines, the constant 4500rpm wear damage is no problem for drones because 3 hour flight. Car engines also aren't particularly heavy but there is a fundamental problem which is RPM. There needs to be a gearbox reduction on the front to bring prop speed down so its not supersonic. Lycoming etc. get around this with big torquey stroking pistons and low revs, Rotax has more modern designs with a gearbox. The newest car engines have high pressure turbo 1 liter displacement very small light and actually maybe even more suitable. So things that need to be added for now: a reduction gearbox (could just be belts some homebuilts use belts) and a vestigial radiator. In the longer term finned block air cooling would be nice and the reduction could be properly integrated with the flywheel. But consider knocktogethers first.
>>65088764Post links to cheap 50 horsepower, 35 pound engines.
>>65091396>no need for those apex sealsApex seals haven't been a problem since the 70s.
>>65093179>Apex seals haven't been a problem since the 70s.That's a fucking lie and you know it.
>>65094085It's not a lie, you're just clueless. Every single other seal in the engine has been a problem at one point or another, but apex seals were solved very early on.
>>65091138How much for a battlefield pickup in Ukraine?
>>65093179>>65094085No, he's right, it's because nobody uses Wankel engines any more, no engine no problem, LOL.
>>65091215Motorcycle engines are a much better fit.
>>65078379The Dildo of Consequences rarely arrives lubed.
>>65091396>apex seals made them unreliable.The apex are a problem but only if we're talking long term reliability, so not much of a factor in one way dronesWankel engines are actually less prone to catastrophic failures(like a broken conrod) due to their simplicity, and even when the apex seals start failing it's gonna just be reduced compression and power loss not an instant fall out of the sky
>>65079886>which is lower than russian domestic production kekDid you know paving roads is more expensive in Russia than Europe?And I'm not talking about the upkeep and maintenance when the winter inevitably fucks everything up. Talking about straight $/foot costs. Or at least it was a decade ago when I looked into it.
>>65101282Apex seals are literally not a problem. The 13B-MSP in the RX-8 had problems with the side and corner seals due to the location of the exhaust ports. The 13B-RE in the JC Cosmo and 13B-REW in the FD RX-7 mostly just had turbo and vacuum system problems, but where they had engine seal problems, it was mainly with the oil seals. The 13B-DEI in the FC RX-7 and HB Cosmo had problems with the coolant seals. None of these are apex seals. Apex seals were a solved problem by the late 70s, and the only time anyone runs into issues with them is when they try to run thousands of RPM beyond their engine's stock redline and they're too cheap to buy ceramic seals. It's like complaining that the Chevy LS engine is defective because you get valve float when you try to spin a stock motor to 8000 RPM.
>>65088670What is this guys name?
holy shit that nigga is like 4 feet tall smdh
>>65101371Freuding
>>65078079Is that zelensky? Lmao what a fuckin midget. I'd body that faggot so hard
Would ramjet + solid fuel rocket booster be more expensive than a full on ICE powered drone? Surely you could even figure out some kind of launch system that can remove the need for a booster to get up to speed? It's just a tube you chuck fuel in compared to a whole ass engine. Why is noone doing that yet?
>>65078379Don't look at how ukies named their drones. >mfw P1SUN has dropped onto some Geran's head
>>65102216It'd require a more sturdy airframe to stay in one piece at ramjet speeds.Also, moving the control surfaces at the relatively low speeds Shahed etc. use is very easy. At higher speeds you end up requiring hydraulic systems and other truly aircraft-grade things, which is a lot more expensive.Ukraine's use of the Flamingo as 'high end' part of their drone mix is probably the most cost effective option, especially because Russia's GBAD appears to be in a death spiral.I'm not certain if Russia uses inteceptor aircraft to go after some of the drones, but if they do they aparetnly decided to not protect their refineries or regularly fail to actually generate intercepts.Both results point ot massive deficits in Russian radar detection and GCI networking.>>65101311That is very unfortunate. I'm sure we will see a solution that will allow an autobahn to be built from Berlin to Kharkiv soon, anyway.
>>65078079We already know their skill level.
>>65104100Ahhh!
>>65092638>>65078666It's been 3 years of drone warfare and you retards STILL think the deciding factor is whether you can shoot them down or not.
>>65092638WW2 flak belts were hundreds of miles long and dozens think with ten thousands of guns manned by over ONE MILLION menall this to try and push 8th air force and bomber command to an unsustainable airframe loss rate. Not actually break up and stop the bombing missions before they reached the target, that was impossible.Instead the goal was to try and attrit something like 10% of the bombers each night, which would be unsustainable does that sound like flak guns are good against one way attack drones?
>>650785316 7
>>65078379your mom was on the design team
>>65081337>physics of it are the same in germany>hasn't heard about aryan vril crystals>doesn't know about Nazi levitation bellsI suggest you do some research
>>65091396>too much weight, usually liquid cooledOk, use a motorcycle engine then. >aren't designed to run constantly under near-maximum powerThey're designed to run a hell of a lot longer than a one way trip into a Russian refinery
>>65078079RETVRN TO KETTERING BUG
>>65127130RETVRN
>>65092638Something cheap like this. but instead of mounting on tank you just mount it on buildings you think will be a target
>>65127130>>65127136>the CEP is Belgium
