Fellas, it's finally happened. My mom has asked me to help her find a self-defense piece that she can actually use. My dad has a .380, .40, and 9mm, but my mom cannot feasibly handle any of these beyond a single shot. So now we're looking at a 22lr-type revolver (Ruger LCR, perhaps) but she's concerned that the bullet won't be big enough to stop an assailant. While stopping power is absolutely something to consider, wouldn't she fare better if she can get five successive small shots on target rather than hope a single one does the trick?I found this quote from Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets:>Out on the street, the big guns—the .38s, .44s and .45s—still get the greatest respect, but the lowly .22 pistol has acquired a reputation all its own. Any West Baltimore homeboy can tell you that when a .22 roundnose gets under a man’s skin, it bounces around like a pinball. And every pathologist seems to have a story about a .22 slug that entered the lower left back, clipped both lungs, the aorta and the liver, then cracked an upper rib or two before finding its way out the upper right shoulder. It’s true that a man who gets hit with a .45 bullet has to worry about a larger piece of lead cleaving through him, but with a good .22 round, he has to worry that the little bugger is in there for the grand tour.
>>65088527>if she can get five successive small shots on target rather than hope a single one does the trick?Yes.Now let's back up a sec, answer these questions:-is this for carry or home defense?-you mentioned she can't handle your dad's .380 or 9. What guns are these specifically? Are we talking micro pocket rockets or is it something bigger?>le bounce around memedear lord
>>65088543fuck, forgot my pic
>>65088543Home defense, in this case. She's tried micro 9s and .380s as rentals (including P365, G43, EC9s, Bodyguard 2.0). I think for her the recoil is a bit much. Remember, we're talking about an older lady and not the high-speed operators that /k/ is filled with
>>65088548>fuck, forgot my pic>of james brady
5.7mm has a pretty light recoil32 ACP is also a thingOr just go big. Why not get your mom a nice Stribog and a fanny pack?
>>65088527S&W Equalizer, you're welcome. Don't get her a fucking .22 unless you actually want her to die.
>>65088568At this point I'm thinking about filling an old sock with nickels and giving it to her
>>65088555I'd say if a home break in is a concern then a 20 gauge shotgun may be an option, but a .22 is better than nothing. With a home defense situation, making the home too much of a hassle to attack is the best defense. Surveillance cameras (real or fake), a fence that locks, bushes by the windows (with thorns), an external appearance that doesn't show off wealth. Simple things that would deter tweakers looking for shit to pawn, that kind of thing.
>>65088570Ok but what is the real reason to jump straight to the weakest possible cartridge when there's plenty in between 9mm and 22 LR not to mention ways of mitigating recoil from a 9mm? If you're seriously considering making such an extreme compromise as 22 LR there are other extreme compromises to consider, like a PDW in a purse
>>65088527Who cares about what a single 22lr does when you have a hundred of them
>>65088555Why are you looking at micro 9s for home defense? That doesn't even make sense.
>>65088570Just give her pepper spray.
>>65088587Maybe it's a small house.
>>65088587Little lady hands aren't apt to handle a 92fs, G19, P226
22lr is fine
>>65088593Must be an unbelievably small house if you can't fit a full size frame into it>>65088597I like how you picked the most notoriously impossible guns for small hands and just completely ignored stuff like the PDP-F that is specifically designed for small hands people without being so awkwardly small that it's uncontrollable
>>65088555This nigga does know how inertia moments work, get her a big ass full steel gun and it won’t kick. Other than my Mk2 my beretta stampede with the little baby 3.5” barrel is the lightest shooting gun I own. Don’t gamba your mom’s life on rimfire
Or a PDW she can shoulder, imagine having home defense issues lmao. I thought this was a purse gun thread
It's enough against all but roided up niggers on pcp.
>>65088624>pcpIs that even around anymore? Asking for a friend
>>65088629Yeah some guy ran over a cyclist recently and they tested him and he was on PCP and alcohol I think? I just remember the PCP part because I hadn't heard of that in a while. He was like 50 years old so maybe he just had a stash from back in the day. His lawyer said the gas pedal got stuck
>>65088555>Home defenseA tiny little pistol is terrible for home defense because they're among the hardest guns to aim and shoot properly. A full-size pistol will be much easier to shoot. It's heavier so it has much less recoil, and it has a longer sight radius so it's easier to aim. But a long gun is better yet.
>>65088527.22 doesn't normally bounce inside human body like the myths say, but it does have better penetration than you would expect. >>65088555Maybe these guns grips were too small for her hands? Try King Cobra .22LR 2 inch barrel I guess. It has 10 round capacity and really nice grip I heard. Yeah it's heavy, like almost twice as heavy as LCR, but it's lighter than other 10 round 22lrs I know, and the big grip and weight should absorb all the recoil. But yeah you should start with LCR and see how she handles it. You should also try 38 special. It's got smoother recoil than all autos out there and packs as much power as 9mm. You won't get more than 6 shots though. For home defense I think short 9mm carbines could be viable options too.
>>65088606>I like how you picked the most notoriously impossible guns for small handsIts almost like he was specifically listing guns that were bad for ladies to shoot....
>>65088527The biggest issue with 22lr is rimfire unreliability. Revolvers make that not such a big deal.The second issue with them is that you need to aim them well to get results quickly. Your mom putting 10 rounds into an attacker from a GP100 and him still having time to kill her before he bleeds out is not exactly the best outcome. Can she aim well enough to land central nervous system hits?Look at the S&W M&P EZ, she may be able to handle it. If not, the 22 revolver will be fine as a carry gun but for home defense see if you can't get her to use a longarm, whether 20ga shotgun or a 9mm carbine or something. Easier to aim, easier to control, more forgiving of just hammering the center of mass than a 22 revolver.
>>65088690>Your mom putting 10 rounds into an attacker from a GP100 and him still having time to kill her before he bleeds outI don't think anon's mom is playing your latest 3DFPS anon. 95% of the time the crackheads are going to start running the instant someone at home gets a shot off.
>>65088527.22LR Downsides>Lacking punch>Lacking penetration>Lacking good self defense rounds>Rimmed rounds do not always work well in autoloaders.>Rounds have a higher chance of just not going off due to subpar manufacturing/design..22 upsides>Low recoil>Cheap, you can practice a lot>Guns that use it are cheaper>Revolvers chambered in it often have more than 6 rounds.>Relatively quiet round.
Get the PP (not the PPK or PPK/S) in .32.Shoot American .32 which is loaded lighter (100fps less) than Eurokek .32.Put a suppressor on it when it's training time.22LR is a dead horse that we simply must stop beating.
>>65088699Sure, but I don't endorse "hope they'll give up because you can't do anything more about it" as a self-defense strategy.You render them unable to be a threat and take their agency out of the situation, not give up your own and hope for the best.
>>65088527You're trying to pick the right calibre before picking the right type of weapon. Get your mom a submachine gun. MP5 or MP5K PDW perhaps with subsonics for lighter recoil. A stock will give her a lot more control and a 30 round magazin a huge confidence boost.
Why no 22lr submachine guns on the streets?
>>65088798Rimfire "reliability" and there's no way to make an externally powered machine gun analog that won't get your dogs shot.
>>65088802>Rimfire "reliability"Gun nerds that sit behind keyboards and split hairs about tiny little differences in gun actions worry about 'rimfire reliability'. DeQuandus and Taimarius don't understand the difference between centerfire and rimfire, but they do know that a double deuce will cap a foo.The real explanation is that there's no easy off the shelf conversion for a common gun they can order off Aliexpress. Once someone invents a FRT or some other kind of conversion for a 10/22 they'll start showing up on the streets.
It's been ages, so I might be wrong on the calibers, but old boomers used to recommend a 357 loaded with 38
.22 WMR might be the solution because it has more stopping power and is louder but doesn’t really have that much more recoil than .22lr, it’s about what you’re comfortable with since the vast majority of gun related murders are committed with .22lr
>>65088690>>65088704>>65088802>>65088827Rimfire unreliability is a fudd myth.
>>65088798If you have a ruger 10/22 with a good trigger it’s basically the same thing but the ATF won’t kill your dog over it
>>65088834Purely depends on the brand/gun mix.Walther P22 runs great if it has good ammo. Ruger Mark IV eats everything.Had Winchester 333, that shit jammed and had several dead rounds.Remindton Golden had maybe two-three dead rounds over my lifetime usage and an occasional simple jam. Rubs good in almost everything.
>>65088834In what kind of gun? My .22lr jams up all the fuckin time. Failures to feed and fire. It's the gun that really matters. Also the brand of ammo. Posting a random chart doesn't mean shit, kid.
>>65088834I had a fail to fire and it was my last round for the session. Fudd RO was all “that’s just 22” I ya led it and chucked it downrange and it went off. Fudd acted like Afghanistan 2.0 when it probably just blew the sidewall out. I wouldn’t carry memefire but I’m not your god/boss/friend.
>>6508883322wmr is a waste out of pistols. It's a 10% gain. Basically the difference between standard velocity and velocitors. What WMR does actually offer is much better bullet construction. Typically reliability is also better since the case rim is larger and contains more priming compound.>>65088834Somewhat true. There's some real shitter rounds out there and there's a TON of 22lr guns that will only run within a small operating window. Biggest issue is consumer education. Guys can say theyve shot a million rounds and never had a failure and be telling the truth. What they don't tell you is it was from a single shot drop lock so basically anything would work while a gun shooting a 60yo auto with inappropriate loadings will say just the opposite.There's a ton of variety in 22lr. Some good some absolutely trash. Some good rounds are trash in semi autos and some semi auto rounds don't do anything more affordable rounds do in single shots or repeaters.
>>65088895>In what kind of gun?M&P 15-22. >My .22lr jams up all the fuckin timeUse repeater or revolver then. >brand of ammoLucky gunner was using 1500 cheap bulk 22s in that test.
>>65088527Op for home defence especially for someone who wont be clearing the house but sheltering in the bedroom, LONG gun not short. 20ga over and under or .22lr bolt action, pump or lever.
>>6508893922WMR can reach speeds sufficient for a hollow point to expand out of a NAA black widow, 22LR needs much larger guns for that. That little bit of extra power can be critical under the right circumstances.
>>65088834>zero citationThis isn't /pol/
>>65088568ThisSet her up with this and she'll take out any youths and joggers that wish to inspect and stroll in her home. I think this thing misfires half the time because of how nonexistent the recoil is when I pull the trigger.
>>65088640So you're saying a Mk IV is the way to go...
>>65088555A DAO revolver is idiot proof and in .22 she could have like 12 shots in a thicc home defense gun. I carry a 6-shot .38 but I'm thinking of switching to .32 for decreased size/weight or .22 for capacity. Likely targets are some junkie with a knife or the neighbor's loose dog.
>>65088614>Don’t gamba your mom’s life on rimfireWith a revolver you just keep pulling the trigger. >>65088641>You won't get more than 6 shots though.They make chunky .357s with 8 shots. Perceived recoil of .38 would be even lighter out of that behemoth. Might be too heavy for an old lady though.
>>65088834>t. never used Winchester white box
Beretta Jetfire or Tomcat
>>65088527>but my mom cannot feasibly handle any of these beyond a single shotIs it a mental or physical reasonBecause I'm a nogunz and I'm pretty sure the solution is "get more time in"It's a self defense gun so it goes without saying it's an absolute danger in untrained hands regardless of what the conditions are
>>65088555>She's tried micro 9s and .380sDo the opposite; find her a large gun that shoots a small bullet, like the S&W Shield EZ 2.0, the Walther CCP M2, or the Beretta 80X Cheetah. Do not get her a tiny gun with shitty sights and likely a stiff trigger.
>>65088585I always thought this was the issueThe gun has barely any recoil so you're sending a bunch of BS someone's wayMy only real issue is some degenerate on PCP isn't going to die from a bunch of rounds likely until after they murder OP's mom
>>65089411Surprise PCP attacks are about as likely as the rapist jumping out of the bushes to attack you, it's not that it has never happened but it's an incredibly popular fantasy in gun greentexts
>>65089450This. Druggies typically only rob people when they've run out of drugs. They'll be in a really bad mood but they won't have drug superpowers.
>>65088527.380 Shield EZ.If she's having trouble with controlling firearms from simple recoil, those 10+ trigger pulls on a revolver aren't going to do it for her either.>but muh springs muh gunsmithingYeah let's make things LESS reliable.
>>65089460You hear about cops magdumping into PCP junkies because cops intentionally make contact with obviously impaired people who are doing things like driving a car.
>>65088527Get her a lever gun in 357 unless she's carrying it around town. I'd recommend you just get her used to 9mm, my 85 year old 100 pound grandpa carries a Glock 19 and this man is tiny. He can handle precisely one pabst blue ribbon before getting shit faced.
>>65088527get her a .32 H&R revolvermultiple to choose from (even a 3" barrel Charter Arms)six shots in a small revolverhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox3e-y7Tu0E
>>65088527As far as I understand the problem with EFFECTIVENESS of .22lr is that it doesn't actually kill the target fast enough. If you get shot with .22lr you can die for sure with proper shot placement, but you'll most likely just bleed. Which is the case with many pistol calibers, it's just that the time between starting bleeding and bleeding out is far longer when it comes to small calibers.Okay, hear me out. This is an amerifat board, so people think within the confines of the US law. In which situation it's preferrable to kill your target rather than maim them, as they might sue you and may challenge your claim on why you've shot them. Which can turn out real bad. Or worse yet, maybe come back for revenge. A dead "assailant" / assailant is easier to deal with. You're not suppose to do a Coup de grâce. Meaning, you can't incapacitate your target and THEN go for the kill by shooting them in the head. That's one of the many reasons why murders get done with .22lrs, because they do exactly just that. Basically what's acceptable in self-defence is mag dumping without proper shot placement, because you can just say in court that you're a massive pussy and that's why you did it. There's also the thing that you're not suppose to keep on shooting once you've neutralized your target. If you've practically killed your assailant it's not acceptable to keep on taking potshots at them while waiting for the cops and ambulance. That counts as Coup de grâce, or execution and therefore murder.
>>65089758But what people don't realize is that this is a problem with many pistol basic cartridges. You need specialized rounds for random shots to cause enough bleeding for your target to die within a reasonable timeframe. And those aren't really available for .22lr, however they are available for .25 ACP and .32 ACP. For your information .25 ACP is practically just .22lr, just in center fire configuration. This however will be contested here, some high speed retard will tell you that it needs to be .45 ACP and in any other situation the gun can be only used for suicide.As for the story of PCP fueled junkies zombies who just walking regardless of being shot... That's not true. It doesn't work that way. Any properly loaded firearm cartridge will cause a shock in the muscle upon penetration. Think of telescopic batons. You're suppose to hit a large muscle with the ball at the tip of the baton. That's where the power comes from. This will cause a shock in the muscle, which will prevent it from moving. Same logic applies to guns. The reason "why" PCP fueled junkies keep on walking through a bullet storm is that the shooter is a pussy who shits himself while shooting, blasts without aiming and the bullets end up penetrating in what is essentially fat. Not muscle, or muscle which doesn't affect their ability to coordinate approaching or physically attacking. However there is truth to the assumption that a larger caliber is better, because even if you shoot with a large caliber without aiming and end up grazing some spot, the shockwave is so much greater than with a small caliber and will affect surrounding tissues. This is because more energy is transmitted to the target is greater with more mass or speed.So. To make this short. The answer is either .25 or .32 for carrying. And something completely different when it comes to home defense.
>>65089758>>65089763>.25 ACP is practically just .22lr, just in center fire configuration.25 ACP is weaker than 22lr when it comes to penetration. 22lr is really fast despite it's tiny projectile. Most 25 acp cartridges are subsonic. .22lr is definitely more reliable at killing instantly, but .25 ACP might have more stopping power due to larger projectile.
>>65089015Lucky Gunner.
>>65090568>22lr is definitely more reliable at killing instantly, >but .25 ACP might have more stopping power due to larger projectile.Just say you don't know.
>>65090568>22lr is really fast despite it's tiny projectileno it isnt. its fast enough to go supersonic but as bullets go 1300 fps is on the low end
>>65090585Some of the fancier 22lrs are like 1800 fps.
>>65090593sure stingers and the like but your average normal 22lr is around 1300meanwhile a 5.56 not making 2600 fps due to a short barrel is considered bad.thats literally double the speed with more bullet mass.
>>65090600You want to give granny a 5.56 pistol? Yeah of course there are faster rounds like .17 hmr, but .22 lr is fast for a dirt cheap plinker round with plenty of guns to select from in the market.
>>65090609>You want to give granny a 5.56 pistol?no i just want to point out that your normal ass average 22lr is relatively slow.
>>65090613Relative to .25? nah.
>>65088527Military and police need to worry about power. The average person is simply better off having a gun than not having one when they need it. You have something that's going to blast a hole in someone. I could care less what kind of gun it is as long as its functional and penetrating. Personally I go with special magnum type of rounds. I could care less if someone chooses a 22LR. The heritage 22 is around 100$, single action, and guess what it will put a hole in someone, and make them regret it for the rest of their life even if they live. If the victim loses at least they fought.
Get one of these
>>65090760>policeNah, all they need is better training. Miami Dade shootout of 86 only went that badly because the FBI were absolutely retarded. From engaging a dangerous target without calling for backup, not carrying enough spare ammo, to keeping spent cases in their pockets.
>>65089391Yes this, can't believe it took so long for someone to recommend this. Beretta Jetfire has 9 rounds of 25acp, but it's single action which might be slightly confusing for an older woman in the middle of the night during a crisis.Bobcat can be either 22lr or 25acp, and you gain double action, which I would say is probably a better choice, even though they're slightly larger than the Jetfires and thus not as concealable. Having the ability to just squeeze the trigger for the first shot and not needing to worry about having to pull the hammer back beforehand is a significant benefit.Tomcat in 32 is obviously a better choice because of the cartridge, only potential issue is OPs mom not being able the handle the recoil, which would be exceptionally light to the point that it would surprise me if anyone could not handle it.
>>65090722Out of a 2.5-3" barrel? Like the one that would be in any pocket self defense pistol? They're basically the same velocity if the bullet weights are the same.
>>65088725Anon's mom already has my PP.
I literally do not care one cent about things like penetration, the "shockwave", or anything else about impact. Shots on target that's it, if a burst of .22 doesn't do it then stop picking fights with bears and the military
>>65090849maybe only us marines who have a love for weapons and decimating the enemy should be cops
>>65090831I might I'm kind of loving this MP7 cope gun
>>65090976i would never become a fed or a copi do love weapons and decimating the enemy though
Your mom will need a gun with a red dot sight because she cant see well at close range.
>>65091133Aren't red dots bad for people with shit vision?She should get a laser like in Terminator
>>65088527A revolver is the ONLY way id carry .22 rimfire for self defense. I would never ever carry .22 LR out of a snubby:.22 WMR: 1.87" Barrel = 113 to 126 ft.-lbs. .22 LR: 2.00" Barrel = 67 to 75 ft.-lbs. .22 magnum ONLY, still has the same capacity as any .22 LR snubby, you can get them generally in 7 round (S&W) or 8 round (Taurus) capacities.
>>65088555>Micro>Home defenceGet her something heavy in a moderate cartridge. If she's not carrying it around the weight really doesn't matter and it'll help mitigate recoil if you're *really* worried about that.Don't get something with a stupid heavy trigger (come on guys I thought we had moved past the revolver for women meme), don't get something in a tiny cartridge for sake of recoil. >>65088834It's not and there is a reason we stopped using rimfire hundreds of years ago.>>65088948>Use repeaterAnd when it light strikes because the rim of the cartridge was just a little bit too thick or the primer compound didn't make it quite right into that little bit of the rim during manufacture?>>65091552They're bad for people with astigmatism but even then they're still better than iron sights in a dark environment because at least you have something to aim with. Anon just get her a 20 gauge or some kind of PCC, although I frankly think most of the "muh women can't handle recoil" is nonsense and they just need to get more experience shooting.
>>65088895The only .22 jamming issues I've ever seen were running hollow-points in semi-auto pistols, where the noses kept getting crushed.
>>65092282Why the hell do hollow point 22 LR even exist? It's already a compromised enough cartridge in the back before you add another failure point up front
>>65089020MkIV is a way better choice than a micro 9mm, but honestly a revolver is probably superior for someone who is not really into guns. Revolvers are idiot-proof. Malf? Just pull the trigger again. No need to worry about jams or failures to fire. A full-size revolver in 22 has neglible recoil. Honestly even a .38 in a full-size revolver is going to be very easy to shoot.>>65092289Small game hunting. It's unreal how much more effective it is than soft points.
>>65092289Varmints.
>>65092236>I frankly think most of the "muh women can't handle recoil" is nonsense and they just need to get more experience shooting.I think you're right, to a point. I've had GFs who absolutely loved shooting a .300 Win Mag off a bench, and another who was happy to shoot big boy pistols including a .454 Super Redhawk and a custom Thompson Encore in .450 Nitro Express. However, the former was a masochist and the latter was a country girl who had been shooting since she was a little kid. The average woman, especially not the average older woman, is not going to have the interest or the discipline to put in the time for training.I also agree that the recoil of shotguns is often overblown. There's no need to use some silly magnum hunting load for defense. A relatively light recoiling 12ga load in a heavy gun does not have a whole lot of recoil. However, recoil isn't the only problem. Most women have poor upper body strength, it's not that they can't take recoil, it's that they can't hold the gun properly. This is where "chick lean" comes from. they can't hold the gun up so they do this lean thing to get its center of gravity closer to their body so it's easier to hold the gun. That makes it difficult to recommend shotguns for women. If you find a nice light 20ga that she can handle that is a great choice, but I wonder about that.
>>65088527Put some velocitors in it. It'll work. I believe just pulling the gun works 99% of the time
>>65092236>They're bad for people with astigmatismHonestly even that is not much of a concern here. With astimatism the dot can be unevenly shaped, I suppose that's annoying, and it would present a problem if you wanted to shoot for precision at distance, but if you're just trying to hit center of torso at 5 yards then it doesn't matter if the dot is perfectly round or it looks like some angled ellipse. Just put the red thing on the bad guy and pull the trigger.
>>65088638He's still keeping it real
>>65088527Look, just don't. I understand the "old lady with weak wrists" deal. The solution is to just buy a .380acp but the most heavy fucking one, and then put a heavy compensator on the end of the threaded barrel. Then add a flashlight to the rails, but the most heavy flashlight that will fit on it. Alternatively, do the same thing but with a 5.7 pistol.
To everyone itt recommending 20ga, they're forgetting women can't really aim. They think the shotgun is like a wide spray gun but at home defense distances the spread is about fist size
>>65092336Semi pistols jam too much. If you watch that recent case where like 6 niggers broke into a guy's garage and he shot at them fleeing (and is currently facing charges), his pistol jammed 4x
>>6508852722LR is firmly in the better than nothing category alongside 25 ACP and 32. You should only go for it if there isn't a better option that she can shoot. 380 is broadly considered the minimum that you should get for a handgun, with 9mm and 38 Special being the standard.>>65088555There's your mistake. If it's an HD gun you shouldn't get her a micro 9mm or 380. You should get something larger that actually fills her hands.>>65088585As long as they all fire. You can have a huge drum magazine ready to go after a home intruder like a swarm of angry bees but it is no good if 5 rounds into a 100rd drum you find a dud. CCI mini mags partially address this, but it is an inherent shortcoming of rimfire ammunition.>>65088597Have her at least try it. There are slim framed automatic pistols as well. Glock 48 for instance.I highly recommend a S&W Shield EZ, which is specifically designed for users who have insufficient hand strength to operate a normal automatic pistol or a 38 Special revolver with a medium frame size and a 4" barrel (S&W Model 10 or Ruger SP101). Any person who isn't outright crippled can operate those and they fire standard calibers.
>>65088569How much is your life worth, anyway?
>>65092354>they're forgetting women can't really aim.bro when the elderly person is incapable of lifting a 9mm so you have to scale down the gun and caliber they were never capable of aiming to start with. its feel good placebo. that gives son an excuse to buy a gun for himself.
>>65092922>S&W Shield EZwhile I wouldn't bet my life on an EZ since I've heard they have stovepiping and FTF issues due to the reduced spring weight, it's probably the best choice for this scenario.I think it boils down to the HD pistol should be as large and as heavy as comfortably fits in the lady's hand with heavy accessories like >>65092336 suggested.I'd really hope to get her to 9mm but it'll come down to shot placement and people stopping because "You shot me!" even if they are capable of continuing to be a threat.
>>65088527>>6508855520 gauge/410 shotgun with light recoil shells, maybe 10/22, hi-point carbine/etc. i don't see any reason to give her a pistol. a lightweight long gun will be easier to shoot and more effective.
>>65088834>remington golden bullets C'mon you have to admit those were ass
>>65088527>Can't shoot 9>Can't shoot 380Give her pepper spray.Stupid bitch will probably carry the gun in her purse anyway and will be fumbling when someone hits her upside the head and snatches her purse. Women won't carry the right way. A gun is just an accessory like lipstick or a phone to them.
>>65088527
>>65093309They've got better now, CCI bought the company and sorted their shit out. Certainly not a life and death round however, velocitor is faster and heavier
>>65088527Xbawkeshueg 1911 with extended overly ported barrel. The length, weight and ports make it easy to point and shoot assuming she can lift it at all.
