How does Iran beat the blockade? I don't see it unless PLAN intervenes or they give them supplies on credit.
>>65089404the issue is that they don't really have to beat the blockade, time puts more pressure on the US than it does iran.
>>65089417why not both?
>>65089421US is making bank selling oil to the rest of the world, china relies heavy on ME oil and are going to be putting a lot of pressure on IRANUS is probably getting a lot of pressure from europe, but fuck them
>>65089421>time puts more pressure on the US than it does iran.The straits being closed deprives the US of its sole source of revenue?
>>65089417>no aftermathWhy? The camera is already there.
>>65089422Arabs in the sense i dont care about arab politics.If you wanna post exploding arabs you re free to join us as long as you dont whine about me posting exploding jews or talk politicsPolitics is boring and annoying, seeing jews explode is fun and entertaining.
>>65089417>xhe tries to use reverse psychology unsuccessfully
>>65089426>US is probably getting a lot of pressure from europeNot really. Price per barrel is high, but not unmanageable and Europe only gets about 6% of its oil via the straits. Its the east that is getting fucked over by the straits being closed.
>>65089430Post hands.
>>65089421They'd have time if it weren't for the fact their economy is basically imploding because>no Internet>steel exports damaged>petrochemical plants damaged>main >80% of oil exports via the strait are now being seizedThey act maximally because if they don't their economy will kill them first
>>65089417>>65089430>nooo! don't talk about how the axis of resistance is losing!!! talk about this instead!!!
>>65089436You're also forgetting that the Iranian Government and the IRGC are now at odds. The Iranian foreign minister said on Friday night (our time) that it was open, then on Saturday morning the IRGC said the minister is an idiot and the straits are closed. The Pakistanis (who are acting as middlemen) don't know who to talk to. Its beginning.
If the jews in this thread wanna post footage frln their idf they are free to do so.Otherwise>>>/pol/ is that wayEither post war footage or stfu
>>65089441>mad
>>65089439Theyve been at odds for a few weeks now since the IRGC is soft launching a military dictatorship to replace the old cleric civilian regime. The IRGC will continue replacing the old guard while the old guard continues to lie and act like they call the shots. This makes it hard for the US to coordinate talks but it also makes Iran not an efficient singular entity, rather more so a clashing contradictory group of warlordsPakistan, for their part, have managed to basically get two sides to agree to two completely different things which is impressive in a way but not very sustainable.>>65089441Xister...read the new discord pin...that's not the talking point anymore...
>>65089439Yep... it posturing. They know they are fucked looks like China ain't helping.
>>65089404The IRGC bets that it can outlast the U.S., whether it's in a shooting war or an economic blockade. They may be right. It's an election year, the American electorate does not like this war, gas prices are elevated, and Iran still retains capacity to damage infrastructure in the Gulf. Trump may scramble for an off-ramp that cements the status-quo and even gives the regime some de-facto advances.On the other hand, this strategy largely revolves around hurting other countries to get to the U.S. Iran has attacked all of its neighbors, who have now opened up their real books to U.S. sanction enforces. It is powerless to open the Strait and its economy is teetering. If the war stops up again, it still has no answer to overflights by strategic bombers and targeted assassinations by Mossad.
>>65089429>Why?because it was probably ineffective
>>65089417Cancan can you do the cancan yes you fucking cancan look at all these muzzies taking dirt naps.
>>65089404even if PLAN wanted to intervene would they be able to?could they even get there?
>>65089439Now all we need is a regular Iranian army General to decide he'd be much happier running the show and making fat stacks from cooperating with the US.
>>65089462The economic damage is already done and nations are just in a state of cope. The passage by the Houthis has not returned to pre conflict traffic because no matter how slim the chances are, people generally don't sail through areas where they can be boarded or bombed.It's going to take YEARS for this to return to normal, if it ever does. No matter how much posturing Western governments virtue signal to their people, nobody wants Iran to control the Strait. The damage the US has done to itself under Trump cannot be overstated. People actually prefer China as a reliable partner, they hate America. Yes, people are retarded and think in the short term but the writing is on the wall. Everybody will have to intervene to solve the conflict because it's clear that Trump has no idea what he's doing.
>>65089478they have a naval base in the region, presumably the Chinese ships at that base weren't built in situ
Can't the Fucking cargo ships just zig zag or fire Fucking countermeasures to make the missiles go for them?
>>65089485>eurocope intensifies You guys are gonna try to dictate peace terms despite refusing to participate in the war. I look forward to the seethe when you get ignored again.
>>65089488>one iranian misspoke*The Iranian authorized by the government to negotiate on behalf of the government announced the negotiated agreement and was immediately contradicted by the government because the government changed in the week since it sent him to negotiate.
is anyone deluded enough to think this war will reach a peace outside all out nuclear war soon enough?this war will last for a long time>time for the retarded frog poster take that ends up always being proved righteconomy doesnt matter, gas pricess will be ignored like with rus ukr were everybody will forget about it and things will quietly shift back to normal.>but people will starveyeah in india, and nobody cares about them, as for gas pricess in europe we can just afford to ignore them and move on like we did with russia sanctions
>>65089485>they hate AmericaThey hate Trump and any sort of "right wing" sentimentNothing new about thatAnd being a buncha rabid hypocrites, they prefer China
>>65089499As I said, he misspoke. Your God emperor, a man who believes he is Jesus reincarnated, does that every day
>>65089500No, this war ends in three ways. Trump either gets favourable terms which are unlikely or humiliating terms. Or he loses the midterms and just drags the war out for his term, kicking the can down the road for the next administration to solve.>>65089502When a democrat takes office in 2028, its not going to change much. The political class in the west has woken up. They know how fragile America is and how in 4 years they can be in a worse position then before. Trump has destroyed America's future and the GOP.
As much as we laugh at Indians, I really think the IRGC and the central iranian government are at heads with each other. I truly think it balkanized internally and warlords are trying to get their soldiers payed.
>>65089508It going to be the third option. I don't Iran can last 2.5 years though. Also losing seats was a guranteed.
>>65089429because it wouldn't be worth posting if you saw it
>>65089512i thought that was the consensus that random groups were firing off stock pilled missiles and drones at whatever targets they saw fit since the top end of the chain of command had been obliterated.
>>65089485The damage has been done, but it largely works to the America's advantage. You know where oil and gas comes from that isn't subject to veto by Shia terrorists? America! Iran is handing the U.S. so much market share in the world's most valuable commodities it's actually funny.
I think Iran will just be a full on CRNK'd up lend-lease or some kind of teasing ground like Western nations have done for Ukraine. Only through this can Iran constantly manufacture loitering munitions, and USVs with constant production rates. If CRNK nations cannot supply, be it direct or dual-use, then Iran will slowly but surely destabilize even further.
>>65089426Oil is a global commodity, prices being driven up means they're being driven up everywhere, even places not physically impeded by the strait's blockage. Higher oil prices make global trade costlier and less efficient, which has knock-on effects essentially everywhere. Not to mention the market anxieties and shipping risks that civilian traffic now has to take into account, insurance rates, etc. China might want the strait open, but the whole world wants it open, because any disruption is a problem for anyone.Remember how fucked up global shipping got because of the suez blockage? Even though they could technically just go around the horn of africa and trade wasn't wholly stopped.
>>65089441having a melty
>>65089524*testing ground
>>65089525None of that works to America's disadvantage. Globalization was the west subsidizing safe shipping to and from the third world so corporations could exploit thirdie labor prices and (lack of) environmental regulations. We now recognize that's retarded. We shouldn't pay to protect bulk carriers so sweatshops can undercut domestic producers. The U.S. became the number one economic power in an era where much of the rest of the world was unsafe and unstable. We are returning to that era.
>>65089515Iran doesn't really need to last. They can just fling random drones at the strait and nobody is ever going to pass through it. Even if escorts block fire, the traffic will be severely reduced and there'll be a constant insurgency problem.
>>65089404Didn't China build the New Silk Road for this scenario?
Apparently USN warned the ship for 6 hours and they didn't listen. oh well FAFO.
>>65089404https://x.com/CENTCOM/status/2045969284690788615
>the jews are realy angry
>>65089526>finally get israeli aftermath footage>it's a war crime
>>65089462The Iranian president, meanwhile, was talking about how they were going to run out of cash in three weeks... over a week ago.
>>65089552
>>65089554right i forgotmuslim militants become innocent children the moment they die
>>65089492Sure, and then when they get hit their insurance won't cover them, and they'll lose everything. You dumb fuck.
>>65089426>US is making bank selling oil to the rest of the worldMost Americans CONSUME oil and don't produce any. America exporting more oil is net bad in a way.>china relies heavy on ME oil and are going to be putting a lot of pressure on IRANThey'll learn to electrify shit and import more from Russia
>>65089563WTF this is horrible, this guy was clearly covering his eyes to begin counting for a game of hide and seek. War crime! War crime!
>>65089554how is that war crime?
>>65089485>People actually prefer China as a reliable partner, they hate AmericaI mean...we don't usually call them "people" but whateverAnd when you say>Everybody will have to intervene to solve the conflictThat's funny because Trump's explicitly mad that nobody is intervening to solve the conflict. That's like the basis of the issue. Who are you talking about here?
>>65089583>They'll learn to electrify shit and import more from RussiaAbout that.
>>65089591It's a wounded, surrendering soldier with no means of fighting backExplain how that isn't a war crime
>>65089593>That's funny because Trump's explicitly mad that nobody is intervening to solve the conflict. That's like the basis of the issue. Who are you talking about here?Nobody is intervening because it's already a total shitshow and will be even more of a shitshow when they do something. Just as usual, they are all hoping this conflict will solve itself or somebody else will come in and end it, just like with Ukraine. The difference is that when those oil reserves reach critical, those countries are going to be desperate to act and will have to do something.
>>65089531america cannot disentangle itself from the global economy, certainly not immediately on the back of a stupid foreign policy decision, and probably not over the course of several decades. Every incentive both political and economic is against it. Also american corporations absolutely have not "recognized that's retarded" and trump has zero intention of pissing off his corpo buddies. Even if trump wanted to de-globalize the american economy this isn't how he'd do it.
>>65089583>Most Americans CONSUME oil and don't produce any. America exporting more oil is net bad in a way.what a retarded thing to saydo you think more people produce oil than consume oil in saudi arabia?also exporting more while prices are up is obviously not a bad thing when prices inevitably drop the US can cut down on export and import more
>>65089606It's not so black and white. Getting global markets to properly price in the cost of instability will shift dollars to the U.S. The economy is still globalized to some extent, but relative advantages shift to the U.S.
>>65089606>america cannot disentangle itself from the global economyit can bend it to its will, Trump obivously doesn't want a strong Europe, knowing that the Europeans rely on Red Sea trade and that the US will overwhelmingly be able to project power through sheer pressure in the arctic, it's a done deal in the long run. If there's anything that the US fears the most, it's stable Eurasian co-operation. Trump wants to crack the vulnerable dependency chains that Eurasian states currently survive on. However, there are real MIC/defense supply chain problems in the US, and I count on that the incompetency will only worsen as time goes by leading to a complete supply chain handicap, no one will stand to win in this. It's really just a matter of who can hold out the longest as everything is about to regress.
>>65089625>If there's anything that the US fears the most, it's stable Eurasian co-operation. Trump wants to crack the vulnerable dependency chains that Eurasian states currently survive on.Then why does Trump insult the EU all day and scream at them?
>>65089606America can enact policies to eventually friendshore everything we need. It might take 15-20 years, but that's what it took to get us to dependence. Anglo countries and Europe make 500% of what we need in a given year, add Brazil and SA to that and it's 1500%
>>65089627Because he wants them as direct vassals, top down dependencies like the Philipines and GCC states.
>>65089627Because the EU is the number institution aimed at keeping Europe down, and his insults rally support for it, ensuring its continued existence.
>oil prices go up globally>includes us and western nations more broadly >manufacturing costs go up>logistical costs go up>cost on shelf goes up>cost to get to store goes up>cost of power goes up>IER releases 400 million barrels to counteract price shock>us releases 180 million barrels from strat reserves as part of IEA release>this is somehow not a bad thing and actually it's a good thing only good can happen trust the planI want to believe that nobody actually holds such a position but i know better than that.
>How does Iran beat the blockade?Do nothing.Win.
>>65089426The US actually has to export it's oil to Europe for refining. Give it a few months for the waves from Asia to hit beyond the Suez and we'll get to know what inflation really feels like.Personally I'm hoping for the 4-day weeks to be normalised. That shit sounds comfy.
>>65089648The U.S. is reliant on natural gas prices for manufacturing not crude oil. Natural gas prices are at multi-year lows because natural gas is a waste product of U.S. oil production. On absolute and relative terms this war is making energy for U.S. manufacturing cheaper.
>>65089485>Yes, people are retarded and think in the short term but the writing is on the wall.Yes, by hoping things can get back to normal and a return to the long 90s of the USN ensuring freedom of navigation. In the 21st century, China is empirically more reliable.
>>65089601He wasnt wounded though, he was an enemy combatant that sat down and covered his face when the drone caught up to him. >no means of fighting backYeah no shit that's what the drone is for lol. What, do you want slappers only this round?
>>65089668>China is empirically more reliable Unless you're Venezuela, Cuba, or Iran
>>65089601Can't surrender to a drone.The drone pilot can't take him under his power and has no way of knowing if the guy will just run off to fight another day. He has no way of knowing whether the combatant is actually surrendering or not.Thus, the conditions for hors de combat are not fulfilled, and the drone is free to blow him up.
>>65089675None of those countries have mutual defense treaties with China.
>>65089684Thank goodness!
>>65089691Where did it show he was wounded?
>>65089691>Can and has been done in Ukraine. Again, lying faggots will not be tolerated. NEXTNobody surrenders to a drone.They walk off into the distance, where they surrender to actual soldiers capable of taking them prisoner, thus indicating a clear intent to surrender.Just because the drone leads them there does not mean they are surrendering to the drone itself.
>>65089691Uh oh, meltie.
>>65089664A ton of manufactured goods use inputs from crude refinement. All of those goods get more expensive.
>>65089684That would seem to indicate, empircally, nobody thinks China is more reliable.
>>65089696I hope niggers like you are actually an Israeli black propaganda operation and aren't genuinely this fucking stupid.
>>65089701Yes, but you just explained those are global prices. If the price goes up in America then it goes up elsewhere, offsetting the effect.Meanwhile in America you can run your factory on dirt cheap natural gas, don't have to fuel and insure a bulk carrier to ship your goods to the world's largest consumer market, and don't pay a tariff to boot. Pretty sweet deal.
I hate all of you almost as much as I hate myself for taking the bait, too.
>>65089708Issue with that idea is that the US is a massive net importer of goods across several sectors. That whole thing with expropriating your industry. >>65089716Learn to reply properly you subhuman frogfaggot.
>>65089716Why do I give a shit what gas costs in fagland? Its about $4.00 per gallon (3.8l) in the U.S. That's expensive relative to what it was in Trump's terms, but about normal when a democrat is in office.
>>65089694In the video
>>65089601>>65089691Being wounded has no bearing whatsoever. Unless you have dropped your weapons (or made a clear intent to surrender by unloading them and carrying them over your head, fully exposed) you are still an armed combatant and can and should be lawfully killed. Furthermore, in cases where there is no reasonable way for the attacker to accept surrender (as is the case in almost all drone cam surrenders) there is also no obligation to accept surrender. But that's also irrelevant, because he made no indication whatsoever of intent to surrender.I realize you're a turdie mindlessly repeating the talking points of someone on Kremlin or Iranian payroll, but it's worth explicitly lining this out nonetheless, for the sake of other lurkers.
>>65089601He's an armed combatant in a war zone, not even shown to be wounded or attempting to surrender in any way. Explain how killing him is a war crime.
10-20% price increases in a time where food has gone up 30-50% in 10 years isn't as big of a deal as people are making out. Consumer spending is already down and food prices are largely insulated for Americans as US food market is subsidized and a self reliant economy.
>>65089724Are you missing the part where the U.S. is trying to massively restore critical industry by changing the incentive structure of the global economy? Nobody is saying the crimp in Hormuz has 0 negative effects, but overall the picture is more nuanced. Especially when the U.S now controls every vital route for oil on planet earth.
Iran seething about the blockade.
>>65089670>do you want slappers only this round?Only if I get to play as Oddjob.
>>65089737Wtf, you mean the american economy isn't collapsing and causing mass famine? I thought iran could control the whole world economy, /pol/ lied to me!!
>>65089742>T-minus a week before taco tacoes again and americans are further humiliatedGod i love this board,
>>65089752>1 more week and we will raise the flag and everyone will understand
>>65089750He's wearing a chest rig, and his hands are not visible. Hands in the fucking air or you get shot, nigger, have you never seen a police body cam video? Absolutely fucking sick of you third world retards who think you're fooling a single person when you argue under false pretenses
>>65089750>neglects the fact he was unarmedBut he wasn't? I mean, I understand that your previous lie has thoroughly failed, but pivoting to another lie isn't going to win you the argument.
>>65089752>tacoCan someone explain this meme? You don't have to like Trump, but after trippling the effective tarrif rate, closing the border, engineering negative net migration, firing half a million bureaucrats, cutting the murder rate to a 126 year low, passing his omnibus bill, and bombing Iran, Venezuela, and Iran again, you'd have to be pretty brandead to attack him for his lack of follow through.
>>65089737The issue there is the subsidizing. If various price points in production increase, the subsidies have to as well, or it cuts into the profit margins of the industry in question.>>65089741Which is good, but the costs of production in the us are and will likely remain higher than it costs to produce abroad (labor cost, regulatory fuckery, input costs, etc). As a result, either those costs need to reduce, they need to be subsidized, or the prices have to increase to maintain profitability. >Nobody is saying the crimp in Hormuz has 0 negative effectsThat's my point. A significant amount of retards online do nothing but chest thump and speak of it as nothing but positive. In addition to that i do think that the negative effects are downplayed in favor of political purposes.
>>65089768I was promised Tel Aviv in ruins and instead the best you can do is cope and shitpost on 4chan while your get humiliated and China just watches.
>>65089736It's a war crime because pali apologists think the Israelis should just take it and give up land to terrorist attacks. That's why they will never answer as to what Israel should have done after October 7th.
>>65089782>That's why they will never answer as to what Israel should have done after October 7th.take it up the ass like a good jew
>>65089741>Are you missing the part where the U.S. is trying to massively restore critical industry by changing the incentive structure of the global economy?This is cope by people who refuse to admit that the policy positions of the administration make no actual sense and were thought up by a retard.
>>65089421you're retarded>>65089426you're also retarded>>65089436this guy gets it
>>65089737>>65089747the other thing people don't understand is what % of the household gets spent on necessitiesin the1st world food, energy and transportation make up less than half of peoples spendingin the 2nd world it's a little over half and in the third world it's most of the household's spendingso when those things go up x% they don't hit the samethat's why when food prices go up in the west people complain but when food prices go up in shitpoeristan there's riots and governments that get toppled
>>65089778The inverse is also true. There are people who will say with a straight face Iran is winning this war.
>>65089785This is why no one cares when the jews do it to you, both you do deserve eachother and let the best murderer win.
>>65089780This. So disappointing.
>>65089704I got terrible news.
>>65089792And on that i can agree with you that they are patently retarded. I wouldn't exactly say there's any major strategic winners in this, but iran sure as fuck are losing the hardest.
G-d i love this board, its too fun
>>65089787What doesn't make sense? The U.S. spent decades subsidizing world stability. Trump has made no illusions that system is gone and the U.S. will flex its power to gain global control at the sacrifice of global stability. This war fits perfectly into that mindset.You could argue that's retarded, but I submit it's at least no less retarded than giving power back to the political class that has done nothing but manage our decline for the last 35 years.
>>65089813That's a lovely narrative, except for all of the obvious disconnects from reality, such as the objective fact that US global control has slipped in the past year due to a renewed effort by half our allies to become militarily and economically independent.
>>65089813>Trump has made no illusions that system is goneWell, because he's actively trying to ruin it. The system didn't fail. He just threw a tantrum. That's the one thing you faggots refuse to admit. I won't call you a retard because you clearly see the problem, but you are making excuses for a retard. >I submit it's at least no less retarded than giving power back to the political class that has done nothing but manage our decline for the last 35 years.We weren't in decline. This is jut what bored retards kept saying because they wish there was more to global politics except the steady state stability of American hegemony.
>>65089818NTA, but Europe rebuilding its military and being capable of checking Russia is entirely in the US' strategic interest, as was destroying Iran before China is ready for war. If both go through, all that's left is China.
>>65089761Well, yes, in this alternate angle where you can see his hands, you can see him picking up his weapon and putting it in his lap.
>>65089404>How does Iran beat the blockade?If you are paki, you dont need to cross international waters to get to iran or the gulf.
>>65089832I didn't say European strength was the problem, I said their INDEPENDENCE is the problem. They are building up their militaries but they're not doing it with US equipment; on the contrary, they're trying to phase out US systems in favor of EU solutions. When they are unable to find a suitable domestic system, they are either launching new development programs, or are starting to preferentially select Asian products. This is all because of Trump's flailing around and going for cheap, immediate, short-term popularity boosts. That and padding the top level of the executive branch with useless sycophants. I voted for the man and I'm fucking irate
>>65089658>The US actually has to export it's oil to Europe for refiningA lie does not turn into the truth through repetition though.
>>65089832>but Europe rebuilding its military and being capable of checking Russia is entirely in the US' strategic interestit was able to do so without rebuildingthey will pump up defense spending once they've beefed up their land forces their navies will be next and by that time the relationship with the US will have degraded furtherso then the US will have the chinks to worry about in a Pacific and a resurgent Europe in the Atlantic
>>65089833Maybe he should have prayed harder and allah would not have abandoned him
>>65089716>before the war the cost at the oil pump was around 3 dollars per liter, now its 4.5 or moreThat's a (you) problem, not a US problem. Here the pre-war cost at the pump was $3.42/gal, now it's $3.65/gal.
>>65089829At this point its just a religious debate between is. If you think the status quo anteTrumpum was sustainable then your are 100% justified in your disdain. My view is the status quo was utterly unstainable and the tipping point of no recovery was approaching quick. Hence my (often reluctant) support for Trump.
>>65089792America aims to win, Iran just has to not lose. And the k/d doesn't count if the Strait is still closed. If America can't control that even with force of arms then thry're in for a fun time. Can Iran hold out until America capitulates and before its own internal stresses (economic pain, govt/IRGC tension, protests electric boogaloo) sap its will to keep going? No clue, like Putin clinging on in Ukraine nobody knows when these things finally crack. I do think the Midterms are a strong external deadline for the US.
>>65089843>I didn't say European strength was the problem, I said their INDEPENDENCE is the problem.You can't have both. Independence was always going to be the result of strength in Europe.You can't have a Europe that's capable of and willing to fight real wars without also having that Europe build up its own industry and logistics.>>65089848>it was able to do so without rebuildingNot in reality. Most European militaries were and still are entirely unprepared for total war. Stockpiles, production, willingness to fight and reserves are nowhere near the level they need to be to fight against Russia. In countries like Germany, the military was just a jobs program.
>>65089843Its mostly EU copies of US hardware or derivative/analogs with everyone still fielding F35s when things get serious. Europe will naturally warm up to the US after Trump is gone and the next neoliberal paradigm President comes into office anyways and anyone throwing a fit about democracy occasionally having wildcard presidencies/leadership is a faggot shill who doesn't live in the west.
>>65089843>Trump's flailing around and going for cheap, immediate, short-termthat's all his policieswant to change your economic policy and re-industrialize? fuck sensible policy we'll declare tariffs on everything and everyone at the same time
>>65089716>literOpinion discarded.
>>65089818>renewed effort by half our allies to become militarily and economically independentSo... exactly what Trump was insisting they do? Wow they really pwned the Drumpfh there. They should really show him by re-opening their nuclear power plants.
I really want to see US boots on the ground in Iran.
>>65089859Things will warm up under the next president for sure, but the trust will take longer. Someone like Trump once could be an aberration, but it happening twice means he's more a sympton of issues in thr US that would likely need treated root and stem before anyone considers then a rock solid partner again.
>>65089818What Europe says and what Europe does are two vastly different things. Especially when we're talking about pronouncements by their globalized lame-duck ruling class with single-digit approval ratings. Europe has never been more dependent on America for defense, capital markets, exports, energy, and technology.Moreover, the continent's main contribution to the 21st century security has been cutting its military spending by trillions and simultaneously sending Putin trillions in oil and gas payments so he could build his military back up. Obama warned them about this, they ignored him, Trump warned them about this, they laughed at him. Then Putin finally invades Ukraine (again) and they all go crying to senile Biden.At this point, we should cut Europe off and see if they can stand on the own two feet, and then reengage with them.
>>65089857the Europeans combined armed forces have outnumbered the russians in just about everything since the fall of the wall and that's before the 2022 meatgrinder kicked offthe big tell is the shift in nuclear doctrine, why'd you use those? to deny ground to the enemy, to destroy concentrations of troops and plug break troughsthey used to be a part of NATO doctrine, now they are a part of russian doctrinethe fall of the wall and the integration of Eastern Europe into the EU has done more to tip the balance of power than the germans skimping on defense ever could
>>65089843>I said their INDEPENDENCE is the problemTheir independence has never been a problem. Those were German-made Leopard tanks being driven by the Germans in all those REFORGERs, not US-made M-60's. What was a problem was Germany letting them all rot after 1992 leaving themselves with a single platoon of combat-ready tanks.
>>65089874you are setting better bait but all the youros are already asleep
>>65089870Happened already
>>65089872You can say that until France/Germany/UK elects their own Trump-lite populist due to unsatisfying conditions for the native populations in those countries.
>>65089879It's not bait it's the God's honest truth, and the fact it makes Euro's seethe just makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
>>65089833>no weapon is actually visibleDon't care
>>65089878>Their independence has never been a problemwhy did the US threaten to smother the UK and Frances economies over the Sues crisis then?one of the goals the US had with NATO was to keep the Europeans in Europe so the US would have a free hand around the worldwhen the Europeans rediscover their balls that's going to be over and will cause more as of yet unforeseen problems for the US
>>65089856I've heard this exact argument with gaza. Enjoy denying reality as your copes become more desperate.Fun fact: /pol/ is just denying anything happened this weekend baghdad bob style.
>>65089872Trump is symptomatic of a general decline and poor strategy in the west that is even worse in most European countries than the U.S. I think anyone who thinks we're going back to Fukuyama's end of history is delusional. Europe needs to get real about statecraft again.
>>65089404Does anybody have video of the hit? Supposedly the navy put a 5in shell into its engine room.
>>65089900they already arethey've singed 3 trade deals the had sitting in the freezer for over a decade less than a year after liberation daythe problem for the US is that from a EU point of view the US is no longer their hedge against others but the the thing they have to hedge against with othersand mid to long term that's going to cost the US
>>65089426>US is probably getting a lot of pressure from europeAs long as the Suez is open, Europe can buy oil from Saudi Arabia and bypass the staits. With Houthis starting shit in the Bab Al'Mandab again, that oil won't be going to Asia. China can still bypass the blockades by pinky promising not to buy Iranian oil, then paying Iran's toll, then filling up in Kuwait or Iraq.
>>65089631That's not how the world works though.The whole debacle is so childish and the average posters view on global economy is laughably simple.
>>65089907Its also going to cause Europe to sprout its own populist nationalist governments that will be similar to Trump. I could see blocs forming in Europe over a unified EU, something like the Baltics and Nordics perhaps going their own way eventually.
>>65089875>the Europeans combined armed forces have outnumbered the russians in just about everything since the fall of the wallWith none of the willingness or readiness to use most of it. Even NATO planners recognize it, what with their unending deployments into Eastern Europe to prevent fait accompli invasions by Russia.
>>65089907I don't really see how opening their asses to pajeet laborers and temu plastic shit is going to help Europe.
>>65089914>Its also going to cause Europe to sprout its own populist nationalist governmentsOrban was solidly defeated recently. I mean Christ, I come from a right wing family in the UK. Solid Brexit/Reform voters in an area where they're the vast minority. Trump is so fucking vile that they're changing their minds. He's might ironically be exactly what we needUnless you're French, in which case fuck you
>>65089775It’s just cope by thirdies and redditors who ignore the truth when it doesnt fit the view of the world they made up in their heads.
>>65089895Suez was 70 years ago, let it go, anon. The precise problem is the Europeans have no idea where their balls are right now. The entire continent is governed the by a 62-year-old cat lady's conception of politics. As a result, their military power is waning, their economies are stagnant, and they risk major social upheaval from unchecked migration. They are a moribund ally, who couldn't help the U.S. much even if they wanted to. A little more European initiative is to the mutual benefit of most parties.
>>65089931Orban was solidly defeated . . . by a Hungarian right-wing popular nationalist. And as far as your family goes, how is extending Keir Starmer's premiership going to help the U.K. at all? It seems more like your leaders are just shifting blame to Trump to cover their own ineptitude.
>>65089931Britain's right wing is trying to figure itself out, Keir is basically just going from almost getting booted out to tolerated as the infighting continues.
>>65089914>Its also going to cause Europe to sprout its own populist nationalist governmentsTrump is killing those, just look at Hungary. Trump and Vance campaigned for Orban and the moment they did so Orban's chances cratered.Trump is so unpopular that he is making everyone that apposes him popular >>65089917>none of the willingnessthe willingness is there, every EU member has troops on the Eastern flank even the Spanish and Italians.aside from that not responding and letting aggression against the EU slide would also end up killing all their own economies>or readinessthat was and remains and issue, but the same is true of russiathey don't need to be perfect, just better>>65089923they are planning around the US, without the US.this or that trade deal won't fix things but it shows their direction of travel and if they keep going they will at some points cut across US interest and they won't feel like they'd have to roll over straight away anymore
>>65089949>by a Hungarian right-wing popular nationalistWho is pro-Ukraine, EU and NATO>extending Keir Starmer's premiershiplol no, they're splitting apart the same way the left does
>>65089940>70 years agoit's the US telling the Europeans to stay in Europe because it's in Europe with NATOand it's held 70 years, 70 years of the US not having to worry about the Europeans on the world stageeven with all the drive of that 62-year-old cat lady they will be more of an issue for the US out in the world compared to just sitting at home
I genuinely don't understand the strategic incentive structure for Iran to comply with a ceasefire if the US intended for them to unilaterally open the straight for everyone except Iranian traffic, which itself would still subject to US interdiction.They may as well be negotiating from their immediate pre-ceasfire position.
>>65089957The Europeans have never been shy about asserting their own interests ahead of America. I don't see what's changing, other than Europe making self-destructive deals to spite Trump.
>>65089404>How does Iran beat the blockade?Well, it's gonna take a really crazy and hard to pull off strategy: Doing nothing, and laughing when the midterms roll around while gas is $10/ga at the pump in the US.
>>65089973Im not sure either but it def cutting off one of their revenue streams. They have a pipeline with China but it doesn’t replace the supply being sent out from the persian gulf.
>>65089426Except, you know, the US is IMPORTING as much crude as it exports. Meanwhile, everyone in the US economy other than the oil companies is getting shafted by the increased fuel prices.Oh, and have fun with the AI bubble's reaction to getting some of their biggest investors fucked up and 30% of the global helium supply being cut off.>>65089910Completely incorrect. Overland transport infrastructure is comically insufficient to make this a practical substitute, and trying to build it now is gonna take years.
>>65089967Why, where is this major area where Europe and America's interests are diametrically opposed that automatically means European independence must be stopped at all costs. Moreover, "Europe" has a dire agency problem, considering it's actually 44 (the continent) 30 (European NATO) 29 (Schengen) or 27 (the EU) sovereign countries with different interests and goals. NATO is one possible way to keep them contained, but so are selective bilateral alliances with key partners. Poland, for example, would probably be quite happy to have a U.S. military base and big fat MIC contracts. There are ways to maintain influence over Europe with endlessly fellating the egos of Brusselcrats.
>>65089974>asserting their own interests ahead of Americain lalaland perhaps>self-destructive dealsthe EU's getting the better out of them (more jeets aside)but they couldn't pass them because special interest where preventing it Trump comes in, causes a raucous and wham bam they are shocked out of special interest coma>>65089949here's the fun part if your extremist parties run on peoples discontent with the systemand some distraction comes along that makes people no longer think about the shit that sucks, that's just what the powers that bee need to stay in power longer
>>65089485>Everybody will have to intervene to solve the conflictThat's a good thing, the US was destroying itself under the previous status quo, the amount of damage that FDR did to America can't be overstated.
>>65089996Largely a product of US regulation, if we had demand based oil extraction without red tape gas would probably be 2 dollars right now.
>>65089973It's a demonstration of leverage. From the U.S. telling of Islamabad, Iran thought it had a lot of leverage through Hormuz, enough to reject key U.S. demands. The U.S. is escalating and demonstrating that while Iran can close Hormuz, it cannot open it. This pinches an economic corridor for Iran, adding a new pain point, and also gives the U.S. semi-justified veto power over a key trade route. It puts Iran's tacit backers into a corner because they can't argue against a U.S. blockade without looking like hypocrites for supporting Iran.
>>65090000>European independence must be stopped at all costsit's never a must annon, it's just that keeping 70k troops in Europe you where going to have anyway is a lot cheaper than having to deal with a more assertive EU>so are selective bilateral alliances with key partnersthe issue being that the US is going to struggle to offer anyone in the old world a better deal than the Europeans a willing to give themdoubly so for EU member states since at the end of the day the EU (and those open internal borders) represents something like 25% of their GDP>endlessly fellating the egos of Brusselcratswhen has the US done that ever?
>>65089485The US hasn't fought a war that's been good for American interests in 130 years. This is nothing new, the US has been making the world hate us since the Spanish-American War.
>>65090004I genuinely don't understand this inferiority complex that Europe improving itself is some fucking self-own for the U.S. Our economies are intertwined, so if you do better we do better. The U.S. just isn't interested in keeping the seas open or accepting your exports if its not in our interest. That doesn't mean every time Europe does something to improve itself, its automatically a negative for the U.S. Grow your economy 30x, I hope you do because we sell you oil.
>>65089996>Completely incorrect. Overland transport infrastructure is comically insufficient to make this a practical substitute, and trying to build it now is gonna take years.You realize that we're talking about existing pipelines here, right?
I get the idea behind the blockade but wouldn't it take months to cripple Iran to the point of the government collapsing? It'd hurt everyone else quite a lot too and I feel like this is gonna cause way more problems than it solves.
>>65090033>Our economies are intertwinedand now Europe is looking to intertwine more with other economies>so if you do better we do better>The U.S. just isn't interested in keeping the seas open or accepting your exports if its not in our interestso you do better if they do better but if they do better you raise the tarrifs because they can't do better than the US>automatically a negative for the U.Sand it isn't, but at some point EU and US interests will clash and the EU won't be nearly as beholden to the US as it is now >I hope you do because we sell you oilyea thanks for not even selling us oil mate can just hurry it up with out subs tough?
>>65090033>if you do better we do better.Except European lawmakers and general mentality are utterly retarded and not rooted in reality, you guys live in la la land.
>>65090048I think its more about inflicting enough damage to Iran that long term there's no way it can survive without a much more moderate group of people in charge. Clearly short term Iran has enough of a martial grip on its people that they can hold on, but 6-12 months later things may be far worse for them when things have cooled down.
>>65090056>at some point EU and US interests will clashUnlikely, the EU is moving left and becoming more isolationist, at worst they just won't be around for the next Desert Storm (which is a good thing, Desert Storm was terrible for American interests)
>>65090060the problem with that is that a collapse will cause a civil war and moderates don't tend to win those
>>65090060Cooled down? I think that's kind of the problem here, Iran has like what? 10 different ethnic minorities that are different levels of pissed against the Iranian government? It'd be a goddamn miracle for a true moderate government to form from a collapse of the previous government. I think it's more likely that we'll see Iran become a failed state and devolve into civil war than anything else.
>>65090019Believe me I understand the implications of Iran not being able to dislodge the counter blockade by soft or hard means. What I do not understand is why they would leave their immediate pre-ceasefire position which already included that assessment. Obviously state's aren't perfect actors but I am being genuine, the first place I look here isn't "Iran made a dumb" it's "I must not be including something in my mental model".
>>65090065>EU is moving left it is thanks to Trump>more isolationistlol no, they simply don't want to be seen anywhere near a war Trump startedjust like pretty much everyone else in the worldhow many countries have joined the US's big beautiful coalition to go open the straights again?
>>65090068>>65090075At this point I think a reformed goverment is more likely instead of a new democratic one.
>>65090065The US will never allow the EU to just exist as an independent power, the second it tries to do that, the US will seek to alleviate tensions with Russia causing China to become a natural ally to Europe, not to mention recent trade boosts with China and India. If Europe tends to go with Russia, the US will suddenly shift and collaborate out of convenience with China.
>>65090081I hope you are right but I fear you are not
>>65090083Europe's not going to forget China's role in aiding Russia against Ukraine and long term Ukraine will likely have a good deal of influence on European politics.
>>65090080>they simply don't want to be seen anywhere near a war Trump startedThey don't want to be seen anywhere near any war at all. Interventionism is dead.
>>65090081A big if, their government is still full of hardcore theocrats and while millions want to see genuine change, there's still millions more who are in support of it ideologically at least. Real reformation isn't going to come on it's own without direct outside intervention. Mind you, I am not in defense of Iran but decades of this shit is going to be extremely hard to dislodge.
>>65090092they are more than happy to go for photo ops in Ukrainebut they all know that being seen next to Trump is political poison even the far right ones
>>65090091>Europe's not going to forget China's role in aiding Russia against Ukraine>and long term Ukraine will likely have a good deal of influence on European politics.
>>65090101Even their meager support for Ukraine was slacking, and they're far from willing to send any soldiers to support them. The EU just doesn't have the imperialist mindset, they like sitting in their cozy homes and ignoring the world.
>>65090094there's also the nationalist aspect to thingseven if you somehow end up with a secular democracy, that won't suddenly change their strategic imperatives
>>65090024You're lost in the sauce, lil' bro. You're defending the transatlantic alliance in its current form because doing so suppresses the Europeans and keeps them contained. And this is an imperative because the Europeans represent an intractable threat if they ever get too much power. They hate us enough to fuck us when they're powerful which requires us to be their ally instead. Further, we should actively sabotage their independence and strength.We share a civilizational heir in Europe, our traditions come from England and are jointly part of the "western world." They are our friends and partners. We should want them to be strong so God forbid we ever really need their help, it's there to give. And if that means we occasionally compete, so what? That's what nation's have done since time immemorial. A strong friend is much better than some servile pet.
>>65090106Uh oh did I contradict a shill narrative?
>>65090108There's that too. Even when the blockade is successful and severely degrades the government, the new reformed government still has to contain civil unrest to contend with the remnents of the previous government. The US could come in and assist with the change but they'd also be pretty unpopular with the locals after the blockade too so it's going to be a shit situation all round really. Ideally, there should've been regime change a month ago but now we're looking at another quagmire.
>>65090112Europe is a haven of progressive liberal democracy. They're never going to be a threat because they're too beholden to popular interests and war is not popular in Europe.
>>65089534pipes are a thing. big ones can be built within 4-5 months if given enough priority. then NOTHING would need to pass through hurmuz.
>>65090107The ting with the EU is that it wants to emerge as a "superpower" without an "imperialist" worldview. In that care they'd be better off just mimicking trade blocs like ASEAN or CPTPP than whatever shitshow they're currently dealing with. You either adopt the France's Politique de Grandeur or just devolve into a competetive trade bloc.>>65090114meds
>>65090076We probably don't know all the factors at play. One key thing for Iran is the internal power struggle. For the U.S. it's probably the gulf states' tolerance for renewed hostilities.As far as sequencing, I think the blockade was aimed at Iran making concessions at deal talks, not the Hormuz-for-ceasefire fiction. I don't think Trump wants to start shooting again, but will if he has to. At the end of the day, we may still be on the escalation ladder as Trump is pushing to end nuclear Iran.
>>65090107>support for Ukraine was slackingit's not, it was being held up, soon that impediment will be out of power>they're far from willing to send any soldiers to support themit's far from needed to send them, right now they can let the russians bleed out for cheap and with no blood price of their own>EU just doesn't have the imperialist mindsetthey don't, but they will probably revive a bit once they start getting their balls back a bitbut you don't have to be EU just doesn't have the imperialist mindset on the global stage in order to have conflicting interests the EU wants peace in the middle east, the US wants what APAC wants the US backs Marocco, the EU would like to get more Algerian gas the US wants to go back to gunboat diplomacy in south america, the EU just singed a major trade deal with themall of those are tension points that for now the EU as a whole can't be bothered to be aggro aboutit's just not worth upsetting the US about itbut as the US becomes less important to them and the rest of the world more that calculation is going to start shiftingand they are by all accounts the third biggest power if they'd behave like one
>>65090128I don't even think Europe wants to be a superpower, every time Europe has had a choice between becoming a more /comfy/ welfare state and becoming a more competitive power, they've always chosen the former.That's not even to say it's a bad choice, but there are sacrifices involved in becoming a superpower that Europe will never be willing to make.
>>65089691>Can and has been done in UkraineYou know what else has been done a lot more often in Ukraine?
>>65090143>the EU as a whole can't be bothered to be aggro aboutAnd it never will because going to war over any of those things would be immensely unpopular in Europe, and Europe is beholden to its people.
>>65090112>>65090124It's really not that hard, if you're the US want to keep Europe subservient like Asian US allies and GCC states. The torch was never carried because people were heavily vested in the idea that free-trade under LIO umbrella would harmonize everything eventually and secure a US centric global order, which failed miserably. If you're Europe, you want to have an Obama/Clinton 2.0 or extreme progressive transatlanticist and face no consequences for adopting full on multilateral trade agreements including all blocs and large jurisdictions in Asia and by extension Africa, this requires Europe to assert itself through deepened binding agreements with China in particular.
>>65089631this feudalist approach to geopolitics is fucking retarded, the stuff of delusional strongmen like putinlook how well it's working out for him, ruler of a pariah state with no real allies bogged down in a forever war less than 200 miles from his own bordersdiplomacy and forging genuine cooperative alliances is so obviously the better option
>>65090155Europe's agreements with China would largely be economic in nature, Europe isn't going to make any sort of military agreements
>>65090060>>65090068>>65090075Civil war in Iran also means a non-nuclear Iran, which is the main US and Israeli goal. It would also mean no money for their proxies (Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas) which is the US and Israeli secondary goal. A civil war would also destroy their own infrastructure. A civil war in Iran is ironically, more stable geopolitically. And most importantly of all, a Balkanized Iran would be funny. That's the most likely outcome of this.
>>65090166Don't expect China to harmonize trade economically if bilateral and case-specific security and military agreements remain in place between European countries and the US. They'll likely want some kind of upper hand economically that hampers Europe's ability to militarily benefit from any transatlantic cooperation whatsoever.Regarding Russia, it's been a zombie state since 1991 anyways, it's not like they had any compounding benefits to even begin with.
>>65090091>Europe's not going to forget China's roleHave you told France that?
>>65090128>In that care they'd be better off just mimicking trade blocs like ASEAN or CPTPPannon it's ASEAN and CPTPP that are mimicking the former EC, the EU's several steps ahead of them.that's going to be US's next problem all those much loser trading blocks becoming more integrated in a more uncertain world. limiting the US's ability to pick them apart with bilateral engagement >>65090112>that entire first paragraphwhere the fuck did you pull that from?I'm saying that the current paradigm is cheaper to maintain for the US than having the EU as a player on the global stagethey won't pose an intractable threat but they simply have other interests than the US and at some point those interests are going to clash like they have in the past.the past 70 years the US just had to wiggle their nose and the Europeans backed down.now there's going to be competition and that competition will end costing the US more in the long term.this isn't about hate or civilizational shitfuckery but about countries having different self interests right now it's easy to all be on the same team because everyone knows who the team's leader isonce the US is no longer the undisputed team leader everyone's gonna start playing their own game again and that includes the EUin fact what we are seeing now with the EU getting those trade deals and welcoming the UK and Canada at least in part to it's big defense bill is them positioning to become the next team leader
What I see will decide is how much Iran can actually carry out with its threats on the strait compared to US demonstrated ability to blockade Iran. This entire economic shit is based entirely on shipping companies not wanting to lose their ass on ships being sunk in the strait. This is where the US's counter blockade actually works, because Iran is getting pressure from China and the other eastern countries due to them being uniquely vulnerable to the hormuz being closed, and as shown with the first ceasefire they are willing to twist Iran's arm more than Europe is willing to twist the US's.
The yuros are too chicken shit to even put boots on the ground in Ukraine to enforce a demilitarized zone without US troops. So I don't know what kind of bullshit these anons are huffing about some resurgent EU coming about.
>>650901954chan is infected with poos and unironic euro-nationalists ever since the start of the Russian/Ukrainian hot war.
>>65090151>war is the only thing ever that can cost the US everthe French want to move all their state PC's to stop using windowsonce France has that figured out others will followonce Europe has an alternative that isn't chinese malware with a very thin coat of lead paint on it other third party countries are going to start adopting it tothat's when the glowies start losing access, silicon valley can't keep the growth engine going the EU's Mercosur means that south america and them can trade more freely with each other than they can with the US.that's going to hurt US interests in both south america and Europethe US is going to pivot back to South america to drive the chinks out only to see the Europeans taking up the space they free up
>>65090182>mimicking the former EC, the EU's several steps ahead of them.Not so much, US would be more interested in leveraging something like APEC to evolve solely from an economic forum to an actual trade facilitation initiative, it won't be full on free-trade but something more akin to special trade agreements with specific premium features that would be strategically beneficial long-term and eventually undercutting the need for a comprehensive multilateral FTA.
>>65089601Fun fact, you're not required to accept surrender. Even more fun fact, shitzbollah is a terrorist organisation that operates as franc tireurs and gets no protections even if they were a signatory!
>>65090206See what I mean by euro-nationalists? France has been away from the US and pseudo-doing their own thing since right after WW2. They even pretend that the 900 billion to German defense is anything more than a political drop in the bucked to what would actually be needed to supplanted the US-centric systems, or that Europe can realistically do it in the next 50 ywars without formally submitting and becoming a part of China
>>65090207the problem for the US being that if you say trade block people think of the EU because it's the most successful one. they will mover more to a EC model than what the US wants and with the EU being more active in the world they will also be more involved in pushing their model
>>65090206>pipe dream deluxe
>>65090213Seeking loopholes is automatically a sign of guilt
You can directly chain the USA's foreign failures from 1898:>Spanish American WarCrippled US-European relations, and introduced a bunch of spics to American territory while entangling the US in wasteful foreign wars>World War 1Crippled US-European relations, caused a refugee crisis, entangled America in wasteful foreign wars, and lead to World War 2>World War 2Crippled US-European relations, caused another refugee crisis, further entangled America in wasteful foreign wars, drove half of Europe in the arms of the Soviets, and empowered Russia and China>Korean WarCrippled US-Asian relations and set back US-European relations, caused another refugee crisis, entangled America in another foreign war, drove half of Korea into the arms of China, and created a permanent drain on the US economy>Vietnamese WarCrippled US-Asian relations and set back US-European relations, drove Vietnam into the arms of the Russians, entangled America in a wasteful foreign war>Desert StormCrippled US-Middle Eastern and US-European relations, drove Al-Qaeda into opposing the US, entangled America in a wasteful foreign war, created a refugee crisis and caused 9/11, and soured opinions on American military professionalism>Afghan WarrCrippled US-Middle Eastern and US-European relations, created a refugee crisis, tied America down to a foreign occupation for decades, and wasted countless lives and equipment>Iraq WarCrippled US-Middle Eastern and US-European relations, created a refugee crisis, tied America down to another occupation, created a hostile state, empowered terrorists, and destabiliized the region
>>65090224tl;dr america can't be trusted with power beyond its borders
>>65090224Total euro-national coping that Europe has meant nothing since 1945.>trying to use the Spanish American War as a US failureI bet you think Japan kicking Russia's ass in the Russo-Japanese war was a stunning Japanese defeat too?
>>65090231What exactly did the US gain from the Spanish-American War, other than a bunch of spic leeches and the hatred of Europe?
>>65090228At least the Brits managed Singapore and HK strategically. Puerto Rico, and other US territories and islands like Hawaii are a complete shitshow due the incomeptence in Washington. There's a shitload of structural crap in US law, Puerto Rico, Hawaii and soon Cuba could've done so much better had they been under British influence instead.
>>65090222>it's a pipe dream if it's happening right nowlol>>65090219this isn't about defense and hard powerthe EU is reaching out and improving it's ties and intertwining it's economies with other regions more because it doesn't to be so tied up with the US as they and those regions become more intertwined that will limit US influence in both regions. that's the cost of the EU becoming more active on the world stage
>>65090195>yuros>enforce a demilitarized zone
>>65090233>what did it gain from theMultiple islands (some lost later), permanently kicking Spain out of great power status that to this day they haven't recovered, sementing itself as a great power that couldn't be ignored, and also shifting the balance of power in Europe to more British favor
>>65090239>yuros>enforcing
>>65090224>drove half of Europe in the arms of the Sovietsthis feels like a deliberate misreading of history
>>65090167Wouldn't a balkanized Iran just lead to a bunch of terrorist proxies getting propped up? That'd be even worse for stability in the Middle East and god knows what'll happen to all that uranium because it'll be gone if the US doesn't swoop in immediately to steal it. Well I guess there'll be Lebonan after that to knock down and if Israel get it's way, we'll be fighting Turkey too after that.
>>65090240>Multiple islandsSo an eternal occupation and waste of resources>>65090240>permanently kicking Spain out of great power statusSo Europe's ire>sementing itself as a great power that couldn't be ignoredSee above, that hasn't earned them any friends
>>65090167Good thing all the traitors in there are eating lead and there ain't shite kikes and their golems can do about it.
>>65090244Europe wouldn't have fallen into Soviet hands if the US didn't get involved. Nobody asked for the US to get involved in WW2, they just barged in where they aren't welcome making a mess of things as usual.
>>65090250dude no one but spain cared about the american-spanish war in Europethey where far to busy with their own shit to care
>>65090239It's the French. They're the only ones with an inflated view of themselves. They're the ones who have consistently been pushing for a Europe separate from America, which is correct, but only on the condition that it is dependent on France. There can be no collective effort with the French involved.They are simply arrogant
>>65090256No they were>lmao Spain got heated by the americans>now time to get their shit
>>65090256It also ruined US-Latin relations as well. Latin America and Spain remember the Spanish-American War and side with China
>>65090255>the French during the battle of France>the Brits and occupied countries whole bunch>the Germans by declaring war
>>65090264The Germans only declared war because the US was already getting involved and had plans to take it up a notch. France and the UK were fine, you think we wanted American soldiers running around our country pilfering stuff and blowing things up?
>>65090263> Latin America and Spain remember the Spanish-American Waryes the Latin America that had to fight Spain for their freedom in living memory when the Spanish-American war happened the war where the Americans kicked the Spanish out of the one place they manged to hold on to and where they where plotting to take the rest back fromand that's why they are going to side with the bat soup drinkers
>>65090255>>65090271yeah, better to let the nazis do all thatfucking retard
>>65090274The 'nazis' were European. Europeans are welcome in Europe, even if we have the occasional odd scuffle, American foreigners aren't.
>>65090271>you think we wanted American soldiers running around our countrySar, there weren't any GI's in the British Raj
>>65090272The US didn't 'free' Latin America, they just took over with a far harsher boot.
>>65090272You are dealing with a retarded euro-nationalist who legitimately think that former euro colonies actually like Europe beyond food. Latin countries litterally cheered in the streets when Maduro was gone and when the US bullied Cuba. Litterally the last Chinese shill in Latin America is Brazil, and even then they have a soft civil war going on
>>65090257>here can be no collective effort with the French involved.>They are simply arrogantThis is why Euros will never emerge as a challenger, the most strategic thing to do would be to center around Paris completely, but it's too much of a headache for all small Euroshit countries that lack the charisma of France, considering that DeGaulle was the only one in the EU who had balls.
>>65090275yeah you're fucking retarded lmao
>>65089404Just ignore it and ask the burger captain if he's really willing to open fire on a civilian vessel in international waters.
>>65090281it's 3am in Europe on a monday morning, that guy isn't a European
>>65090282Each European country wants to be the leader of Europe which is why they can't do anything other than the EU. They are larping as a US-style federation but can't stand to be in the same room with each other.
>>65090140>One key thing for Iran is the internal power struggle. This is the probably the biggest hold up. The IRGC is on its third string personnel. They're also not getting paid since we knocked out their financial system. The regime forces need something to legitimize themselves before the war ends or they're gonna be thrown under the bus. Both the rank and file or their officers can see the writing on the wall if the civilian government makes peace without them.
>>65090304Congratulations, you just threw the US and Chinese into a cursed alliance.
>>65090304The STRONGEST worded letters ever!
>>65090304>the EU will adsorb Canada and its failed economyCongrats I guess enjoy your Canadian health care.
>>65090282Why submit yourself to a lesser power like France when the mutts, vatniks and chinks come knocking? The French don't understand that they aren't a global power anymore
>>65090318Only an American could look at an economy that actually takes care of its people and think it's a failure because "Line not go up fast enough".
>>65090333What economy? Canada is litterally poorer than fucking Alabama. Their "free Healthcare" is just cheap over the counter drugs. They are getting bullied by goddamn Alberta and Quebec, they are no power.
>>65090341You mean that MAID service they give out to white canucks while importing jeets?
>>65090347>when you replace objective metrics with nebulous ones, the US is a third world country
>>65090246>Wouldn't a balkanized Iran just lead to a bunch of terrorist proxies getting propped up?No. They would be too busy fighting amongst themselves to fund terrorist groups. And besides Hamas, Iran doesn't fund Sunni Muslims and most Shiites are already in Iran or Iraq. Most of the middle east already hates Iran too. Iran breaking up won't hurt the other muzzie countries.As for the uranium, it would either be taken by US?Israel or bought by them. Not that they can really do too much with it since they will be too busy fighting.
>>65090356You can’t live on numbers, HDI and PPP measures the actual humanity of living, Americans don’t understand it because they’ve lost their humanity, that’s why they’re so happy to wage war all the time and never once consider peace. Even the fucking Pope thinks America is being inhumane.
>>65090304>combined GDP of $38 TrillionDamn that's actually somewhat impressive, the GDP of the US is a mere 31.4 trillion. Still given current trends the US should get ahead of this conglomeration sometime in the next decade. It's a 6.6 trillion gap though so it could be hard depending on how much they are all growing.
>>65090359So what's stopping China from coming in and funding their proxies to stablize the region? You can't just leave the country to rot and fight amongst themselves, it's too important to ignore because of the strait. Somebody else will come in to fill that power gap if it isn't us and make it our problem again.
>>65089655Guess we'll find out.
>>65090304>Russians>assimilating into European culturelollmao even
>>65089492This, back in the old days shipping companies had their own full blown navies and engaged in sea battles with pirates. Should be the responsibility of the shipper to ensure it's product makes it to destination not the government. A modern East India Company would have had this blockade over in a week.
>>65090027Are you retarded? WW2 placed the US as the global hegemon for close to a century now
>>65090379This is after the Putin Regime is replaced by a pro EU democracy
>>65089655>things aren't worth blowing up if they are repairableThe idea is to reach the point that you can blow up enough repairable infrastructure quick enough to start incurring delays in the system. Say they can repair a refinery and return it to full operation once per week regardless of damage, but you're putting 2 refinieres out of production in the same amount of time. As that deficet grows, things become exponentially worse and simply repairing damage isn't going to cut it
>>65090386fucking lmaoyou're neither European or American
>>65090386again with the tds
>>65090386Which just goes to show how shallow euros can be.
>>65090390>WW2 resulted in the Soviets occupying half of Europeftfy
>>65090389The war is still wildly popular in Russia. They do not want to cooperate. Containment is the only viable option
>>65090394Russia only made Ukraine an enemy, they were happy to trade oil with us. The US made all of Europe an enemy and has actively worked to cut us off from oil.
>>65090390Yes, because of germanyThe only reason all of it didn't fall to the soviets is because of the US
>>65090400And whose fault was that? America. They funded the Soviets and attacked Europe’s western flank while Europe was trying to put down the Russians for good.
>>65090403There slaves that will go along with what ever government is in power. If tomorrow Putin ended the war they would all support ending the war and act like they never supported the war.
>>65090404This is some of the most transparent D&C propaganda I've ever seen on here
>>65089421Nah. Iran is betting on the fact that they can endure economic collapse longer than the US can endure evonomic depression. They think the US can't take the heat as well as they can, is all
>>65090405The fight against Russia was a pan-European effort, it was the USA who butted in where they weren’t welcome and ruined it, Germany had SS divisions from every European country
>>65089898Well, the difference is that Israel does actually control the whole of Gaza and can act with impunity. The same is not true for the US and Iran, not to mention the secondary effect on the strait, which is hurting the US's goals in the region. Israel does not have the same issue.
>>65090367>So what's stopping China from coming in and funding their proxies to stablize the region?That could take decades and if China wants to take Taiwan it needs to in the next few years. China is also not known to be a stabilization country either.
>>65089856>Iran just has to not loseOver the past few years Iran had their proxies Hamas and Hezbollah pummeled, their puppet Assad outsted and replaced with a hostile government, their economy collapse and get worse than ever, domestic popularity of the regime keep falling, and now they are quickly spending their missile and drone reserves to achieve very little other than ruining whatever hope there was of positive relations with the Arab monarchies, all while getting abandoned by Russia and China.
>>65089856>Iran just has to not lose!That was the plan, until they made everything about the strait. Now the strait, and nooks, Is the war.
>>65090206>the French want to move all their state PC's to stop using windows>once France has that figured out others will followThis has been attempted often and nothing ever comes of it. Even /g/, Linux shills and Windows haters every one, don't think it's going to happen.>>65090206>that's when the glowies start losing accessGlowies have access at the hardware level. They don't really care what OS is on top of it.
>>65090486You are speaking to a retarded euro-nationalist, possibly frenchie or frenchoid. He legitimately thinks that Europe weening itself from the US is as easy as closing down a McDonald's. Europe is completly crippled and too paralyzed to do anything in the next 100 years thanks to giving up everything to the US and Soviets to try and play both sides. They won't accept Chinese submission because the Chinese believe they are the chosen people (literal Asian ews) and all bog negotiations with China ended in failure
I don't understand how you people can manage this level of strawmanning and belligerence in every post, consistently, day in and day out. I swear to god this board is infested with bots, I don't think most of you are real people.
>>65090386log off vlad, you're too drunk to be shitposting like this
>>65090468Don't forget that they have pumped their aquifers dry and are seriously about to run out of drinking water.
>>65090500If it's not bots, it's /pol/ transplants that have their brains rotted by bots
>>65089833Is this in Lebanon?
Here's what Americans don't understand about Europe: We are not an empire, a superpower, an ethnostate, or a culture. We are, above all else, a trade union, interested in maximizing the quality of life of our citizens.This is why our people have healthcare while Americans don't. This is why we have free college and housing and plentiful welfare while Americans go hungry and cold. This is why Europe hasn't fought a war in over 80 years while Americans exist in a state of permanent war. This is why we mind our own business while America is constantly butting in where they aren't wanted. This is why everybody loves Europeans and loathes Americans.
>>65090424well that's the thing, we've given the iranians better conditions for enduring economic collapse by bombing the shit out of them, killing all their leadership, and then blockading them. >Nothing will fall more to shit because the americans have already bombed it>The people aren't going to overthrow the government because anyone they could blame is either dead or american (and all the actual activists were killed last year)>the increased starvation and suffering will be blamed on the americans for blockading them, which doesn't encourage compliance
>>65090629>This is why everybody loves Europeans and loathes Americans.M8, everyone in Yurop hates one another. That's why it's only a shitty trade union as you can't agree on anything.
>>65090629The americans put troops in europe to dissuade the soviets from invading. The yuros in turn slashed defense spending for that welfare state you gloat about. So removing american troops means the euros have to start cutting back on their welfare to spend on defense.
>>65090662The only reason Russia was ever a threat to Europe was because America pushed half of them into the arms of the Russians. America couldn't just leave Europe alone to take care of the Russian problem, they had to get involved and sabotage us by supporting the Russians.
>>65090667I guess we'll find out once the us pulls back troops.
>>65090677Russia can't even handle Ukraine
Who keeps bringing US vs EU shit flinging into everything? Bet it’s neither euros or americans
>>65090386most retarded post of the week award
>>65090689Most Europeans aren't personally affected by the war in Ukraine, but they ARE personally affected by Trump's tariffs and the blockade of the strait
>>65090500The slightest consideration that China might not just be a yellow monkey cardboard cutout we can trounce without breaking a sweat gets met with >IMPLESSIVE CHING CHANG NIP CHONG WONG I AM FROM COMMISARIAT OF TEXAS-KONG.This board is legitimately worse in some ways than /pol/. And yes of course there's third world anti-American bots too, but you expect that while you expect our side to be a bit more measured and composed than to behave like some face-saving retard. We gazed so long into the vatnik the vatnik stared back.>>65090359>Too busy fighting among themselves to fund terrorist groupsYeah that's why the Islamic state was never a threat.>>65090347The PPP of fucking Alabama is higher than the UK.
>>65090702>The PPP of fucking Alabama is higher than the UK.Sure, if they have anything left to spend after healthcare, food, and rent
>>65090700>Most Europeans aren't affected by refugees from the first major continental war on Europe in decades nor from the political turmoil of having to actually rearm in the face of looming economic issues from pensions and welfare>BUTTTT they are heartbroken from the extra euro on the cars that they don't even fucking drive anyways since they take cute little trams to their trinket shop job
>>65090711Europeans welcome the Ukrainian refugees, they're the first western immigrants we've gotten in a while.
>>65090629>interested in maximizing the quality of life of our citizens.
>>65090718The American cannot comprehend the basics of life being free
>>65090723You're trying too hard, buddy.
>>65090649fixed
>>65090707You bring up a valid consideration that what we have to pay in supplemental costs (healthcare) often can mitigate how much we don't get taxed in the lower brackets. But it's still rather rough to compare us to the UK when the UK is getting worse for quality of life (Unless an immigrant, for some fucking reason) than better whereas places like the Baltics and Poland have been on an upward trajectory.Also the anon was baiting by saying euros haven't fought a war in 80 years when they had the Yugoslavian wars, the troubles, the brief civil wars in the wake of WW2 between commies and non commies, the Indochina war, the French Algerian war, the war in Libya which the UK Parliament's report considered the blame went France > Britain > Sec State and Defense in USA, Malayan emergency, British action in Kenya and Aden and Oman, French action in Chad and West Africa, ect ect.And frankly the only reason there wasn't a third world war in Europe is because the US was in NATO and bolstered it. Moscow would have engaged Western Europe had we gone isolationist again after 45.
>>65089752>>65089775>>65089933I'll always be entertained by the fact that for everything that has been thrown around for the past decade, it's only TACO that triggers the glownigs here.More importantly, why don't the Japanese have a word for Chicken? Is this because of KFC?
I know there's this urge to please Europe in some Americans to prove that we're a 'civilized country' but desu Europe isn't even the most important part of the American hegemony, hell it's not even the 3rd most important part. Asia, Latin America, and the Middle East are all generally more important to American interests than Europe is. They rank ahead of Africa I guess though.
>>65090770This is as bad as seeing Japanese people quoting "the west has fallen"
What I don't get is why people are upset the US put a blockade on the Iranians?
>>65090808Economics, oil prices rise everywhere which in turn raises prices for other commodities because of transport costs increasing as a result
>>65090808It makes gas prices go up more because the American blockade is actually effective.
>>65090778>AsiaAsian defenses are being gutted right now to replenish years of stocks expended in the Persian Gulf.
>>65090841Which hurts China the most as they'd be intensely reliant upon Iranian gas and oil for an invasion of Taiwan
>>65090845you should double check your numbers
>>65090808>implying people aren't upset at this entire thing because their livelihoods and lives have all been affected
>>65090864That's what it takes to actually deal with the enemy. It's like complaining about Ukraine having to conscript people to fight in a war.
>>65090845You mean the oil they can get through pipelines?
>>65090890Not nearly enough for their actual needs
>>65090868the issue is that unlike the iranian situation ukraine's conscription is necessary and serves a valid purpose
>>65090808people arent. random retards on the internet are.
>>65090916Not really, Ukraine has plenty of volunteers, it's pointless to send people into combat who don't want to be there.
>>65089404They simply have to outlast the US's economy.
>>65089680The Iraqis surrendered to drones just fine.
>>65091152They actually surrendered to coalition forces some time later, a drone can't take prisoners, and the Navy was under no covenant to accept their surrender
>>65089684lol why would you post this
>>65089426>pressure from europeI don't know how credible that is. Remember these are the same people that say "gas should be 5 EUR per liter to save the environment".Only they wanted the difference to that price to go into their tax bucket lol.
>>65089843>They are building up their militariesRiiiiiight. This time there'll be a Pan-European military force for sure!
>>65089404>How does Iran beat the blockade?By declaring all nuclear sites and letting the IAEA inspect them with unrestricted access.
>>65089404Easy. They wait for retards to cry hard enough about icky meany drumpfy until we just let Iran win. Pretty much the same reason why other we aren't nuking the 3 gorges from our bases in Greenland - the 57th state.
>>65090224You left out:>American RevolutionCrippled US-European relations, directly caused the French Revolution>Quasi-War with FranceCrippled US-European relations, pushed France towards Napoleon, causing a series of disastrous wars for European allies>Barbary PiratesCrippled US-European relations, upended European diplomatic relations with Islamic nations>War of 1812Crippled US-European relations, hampered pan-European efforts to stop Napoleon>Mexican-American WarCrippled US-European relations... somehow. Something something Texas, maybe?>US Civil WarCrippled US-European relations, due to cotton shortages resulting from Confederate embargo followed by Union blockades
>>65090716>Europeans welcome the Ukrainian refugees, they're the first western immigrants we've gotten in a while.Ukies are not western immigrants, you are obviously an american due to your lack of geographical insights.
>>65089473And look at all the flying Jews
>>65090125Then Iran bombs the pipes or assorted infrastructure. They're trying to bait the west into a meat grinder ground war, that's the only way to stop them by force.
>>65089404Does double blocking the strait keep it magically open? I've lost track of this thing.
>>65094421Against our better judgement, we gave the Iranian government the opportunity to live if it agreed to chill the fuck out and act like a normal oil-extracting nation, and they said they'd rather die. So we're going to accommodate their request.
