So Blackout is a very fat 5.56 necked up to straight wall the cartridge, also happens to be a 30 caliber.Is there an equivalent of 7.62x39, where they fatten up the bullet?
>>650895539x39mm
Yes, 9x39 russian
>>65089553>Is there an equivalent of 7.62x39, where they fatten up the bullet?9x39mm
>>65089556>>65089557>>65089558So I was playing ground branch the other day and noticed that in the game .300 blackout is depicted as superior performing compared to 9x39mm, is this true? I thought 9x39mm was super special and shit, the ruskies hyped it as being able to defeat body armor and stuff. Is it real just shit?
>>65089579It sucks big time its just subsonic and suppressed very well
>>65089579>able to defeat body armor and stuff. Is it real just shitSoft armor, yeah
>>65089579>.300 blackout is depicted as superior performing compared to 9x39mmProbably. My understanding is that .300 Blackout was made to be similar to 7.62x39 clone but with some consideration for subsonic/silenced performance, while 9x39 was designed primarily for subsonic/silenced operation with all the design compromises that come with that.
>>65089556>9x39mm>>65089557>>65089558>>65089579oh right.Im a fucking idiot. I forgot about the 9mm with the extra 20mm. At 250+ grains its a fucking thunker.
>>650895795.56 is superior to 7.62x39, and so it's superior to 300 blackout, which is not meaningfully different loaded to mach 2, and is substantially worse loaded to subsonic. 9x39 is not more armor penetrative than conventional rifle rounds. Russian armor tests are famously bunk and that isn't some war tourist meme it was well known for years. If I had to use a subsonic rifle, yes I'd want the biggest round possible, but it's all still coping because Velocity is and will continue to be king.
>>650895799x39mm suppresses better than .300 blk and hits harder at closer ranges; however, it has a heavier drop so it's inferior past a certain range. The closest thing the West has to 9x39 is that .338 ARC that no one gave a shit about.
>>65089723>Russian armor tests are famously bunk and that isn't some war tourist meme it was well known for years.Correct. There's a huge scandal going around because their BR4 plates rated to 5.45x39mm 7N10 and weaker 7.62x39mm are getting busted by M855.>9x39 is not more armor penetrative than conventional rifle rounds.Depends on the armor material and penetrator composition. It's down on velocity big time versus 5.56 but has a major core mass advantage.>5.56 is superior to 7.62x39,Same deal. There are plates which defeat M855A1 but lose to hard steel core 7.62x39 API or API and vice versa. They have different strengths.At an absolute maximum tungsten core 7.62x39mm AP, such as 7N38, will outperform similar out of a 5.56 or 5.45 against ceramics because of a core mass advantage. Those two will have the advantage versus steel / titanium.
>>65089579They have 12.7x55 for defeating body armor while suppressed. No idea whether it actually works.
>>65089805The longer version has a very nice 1,173 grain tungsten core STs-130VPS load.
>>65089723>5.56 is superior to 7.62x39which version of which?also>7.62x39mm 57-N-231ULiterally Blackout but 50 years sooner.>>65089723>armor penetrative>>65089579>round branch the other day and noticed that in the game>/v/And who gives a solid fuck about armor penetration out of a SUBSONIC round?!>>65089734>it has a heavier drop so it's inferior past a certain rangesubsonic round. Again, 1 who gives a shit and 2 it turns out the Russians literally invented blackout for AKs in the fucking 1950s.>>65089821>>65089805Huh. Neat. I wonder if they make a soft tip round. Or I could just use 45-70 subsonic loads. Nah. I want this.
>>65090252>And who gives a solid fuck about armor penetration out of a SUBSONIC round?!For starters, Kevin Brittingham does; that's why he made the 8.6 blk meme.>subsonic round. Again, 1 who gives a shit.Not sure why you use "again" when the other guy's conversation about AP is very different from my discussion about bullet drop. That being said, Anon, when talking about ballistics, its effective ranges and the drop of the bullet in flight are very relevant discussions. Notice in PicRel how .300 BLK beats 9x39 in 3 different metrics.>Huh. Neat.I guess you cared.
>>65089553>So Blackout is a very fat 5.56 necked up to straight wall the cartridgeBigger cartridges are larger diameter versions of smaller cartridges and sometimes share casing diameters with those cartridgesNever would’ve thought it
>>65089553>>65089556>>65089557Dudes, 300blk is a 9x39 copy not a 7.62x39 copy. Look at the two rounds next to each other. Look what they're both designed for. 300blk does not perform as well as 7.62x39 as an all around military round, the bullet drop on 300blk is much more pronounced because it's a heavier bullet. It's designed to be subsonic and for closer ranges.
>>65089723>5.56 is superior to 7.62x39Until it comes to penetrating barriers, or killing at distance, or being viable when subsonic. The bullet is too damn light, it's a one trick pony.
>>65090889>Until it comes to penetrating barriers, or killing at distance5.56 is superior to 7.62x39 at those too>or being viable when subsonic9x39 exists because the soviets couldn't make the round work when subsonic, lol
>>65090885It's designed to easily switch between subsonic and supersonic with just a mag change
>>65090885Bullet drop is a function of velocity and drag, not weight. In this case, a 220gr 300 blackout bullet going 1050fps will have a much more pronounced drop than a 7.62x39 123 grain projectile going 2400fps, obviously. 300blk supers are still on the slower side compared to comparable x39 loads
>>65091027Subsonic 7.62x39 will kill the fuck out of you, people die much easier than animals and just getting hit once takes all the fight out of us
>>650910881. No we don't2. No it doesn't
>>65089579The subsonic thing is key. .300 supers would blow any 9x39 round out of the water but they're, ya know, supers. When both rounds are kneecapped by not being able to go faster than 1100 fps, mass and hardness is king and 9x39 is double the mass and nearly every round has a steel core. On the other side of the coin, special AP rounds like CBJ have a tungsten penetrator and claim to match the steel penetration of the older 9x39 rounds. Whether it is better than the newer 9x39 improvements isnt known, there's very little info on how SPP and BP perform. In principle they could do the same as one thing Russia has in abundance is tungsten, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in investing in the weapons; perhaps they did try it and found its diminishing returns because its not like it will ever crack an Esapi.
>>65091093Watch police activity and see what just a 9mm does
>>65091131I have. It's not much. People get mag dumped and still squirm around. If you don't hit something vital, it'll take some time. There are also shot up gang bangers making full recoveries all the time. Humans are animals just like everything else.
>>65091088>Subsonic 7.62x39 will kill the fuck out of youby that reasoning subsonic 5.56 will do so too
>>65090885>Dudes, 300blk is a 9x39 copy not a 7.62x39 copy.Nogunz detected. >>65091066>Bullet drop is a function of velocity and drag, not weight.You are sort of right, but mass is still relevant.
>>65093269Only for boundary conditions of your force balancing, mass isn’t a term in any kinematics equations and it certainly isn’t a term in drag equations. Otherwise we just use the -9.81whatever the fuck, and forget about mass for external ballistics, especially bullet drop.
>>65091027That's all load reliant. 7.62x39 BZ API or 7N23 mogs M855 and sidegrades M855A1, for example, and has more core mass so it's got more authority through barriers and composite light vic armor.Obviously tungsten core 5.56 like M995 has an advantage versus steel, because velocity is king there. 7.62x39 API however gives ceramics a pretty hard time.
>>65089734>338 ARC that no one gave a shit about.>yetBut someday people will admit the superiority of the .338Arc! I just know it!
>>65093461Rifles haven't really been chambered in it yet. People are waiting for howa mini etc to release one. Ruger American has them but hard to get a hold of
>>65091142It can take a long time to die but they're just laying flat or holding a wound. Nothing like a deer that will run 200 yards without a heart
>>65093525They won't run 200yds without a heart.
Yeah. The following share the x39 base diameter (not necessarily the rim)400 legend (fatter 350 legend)338 ARC9x39mm (Russian version of 300 blackout)I’m betting there’s tons more. X39 is a popular parent case.>>65090885In its ballistics (caliber, mass, SD, velocity, energy) it’s a kin of 7.62x39. It is only similar to 9x39 in that they share a similar evolution (necked up intermediate cartridge).Left to the right, the cartridges in Picrel are 5.56, 350 legend, 400 legend.
>>65093363>mass isn’t a term in any kinematics equationsWhat? Anon, the formulas depend on things like velocity and acceleration. If you are trying to figure out the motion of objects undergoing constant acceleration, the mass is important. Hell, look at .300 BLK and notice how a 230 grain projectile is moving differently from a 110 grain projectile.>mass isn’t a term in any kinematics equations and it certainly isn’t a term in drag equationsDrag depends on the density of the air, the square of the velocity, the air's viscosity and compressibility, the size and shape of the body, and the body's inclination to the flow. Do you know what affects the size and shape of the body? I'll let you think about that.
>>65093834Deer do, they don't give a fuck
>>65093461Cartridge development is held back by the prevalence of the AR-15 (and AR-10). If it can't function well in that then the market doesn't care. If the market was willing to try a rifle with a slightly wider chamber and bolt area then we'd see some impressive improvements in cartridges.
>>65094066>if the market was willing to try [larger case head cartridges]They are. That’s what the AR10 is for. Yes the action length is longer, but that’s because it makes sense for it to be. You want 2.26” long cartridges with a .471 case head? Works for thumpers, but for anything bottlenecked, it’s seriously gonna restrict the bullet’s form factor.
>>65091166Indeed but it's a 73gn 5.6mm round that won't expand or really yaw vs a 120gn 7.6mm hole
>>65094057It's not a matter of giving a fuck, it's a matter of biology. They don't, you just missed
>>65094186They do, their running pumps the blood around a little like giving themselves CPR. If the heart is intact they usually die faster because it pumps blood out the wound and blood pressure drops
>>65094186Idk about you bro but some creatures are just built different. Like me. No bullet can fell me, regardless of shot placement. Hit my heart? Psh. I’m heartless.
>>65094106The AR10 is held back by the fact that there are in reality several different AR10s
>>65094305I agree. A single standard would be nice. Preferably one of the small frame AR10s.
