>Weight: up to 15 tons (aluminum hull)>Engine: 360 hp diesel>Crew: 3 (driver, commander, weapons operator)>Troop capacity: 8 dismounts>Ballistic protection: STANAG 4569 Level 4 (front), Level 3 (sides/rear)>Mine protection: Level 3a/3b (up to 6 kg under track/hull)>Armament options:12.7 mm machine gun, 14.5 mm + 7.62 mm coaxial
Isn't that the new Polish APC?
>>65091235Honestly surprised they haven't copied the Bradley yet
>>65091237No, its the "Scythian" being tested by one of the bigger Ukrainian defense companies
>>65091241anon look at this thing, it obviously needs a 20mm in a turret to suport its dismountsbut then the enemy might mistake it for a tank so better give it some atgm's so it can defend itself
>>65091249It should also have its own drones. And a laser to down enemy drones. And maybe a set of wings
>>65091241it needs to be cheap
>>65091235Looks like a good battle taxi. Needs more cages though
>>65091235Some fairly decent armour and mine protection
>>65091235Wonder what the Russian equivalent would be these days?
>>65091263A lada niva with a chicken coop
>>65091263Russians now use regular cars as battle taxi.
>>65091263Donkey
>>65091235cool stuff, but any real production will happen after the war. M113 will never die.
>>65091263Dunno, we've yet to see an electric scooter with ERA
>>65091243>ScythianI hope they embrace their traditions.
Always cool to see a new m113-version, always funny when you see those cute little tracks still in place
>>65091263Unironically, a stripped down Lada
>>65091235that's basically a bootleg KIFV, itself a bootleg ACAVare there any electronics to make it stand out at least?
>>65091249Just give it portholes like in the navy, so the dismount can stick their guns out.
>>65091297Does it have the right sheep specs for that?
https://www.combatreform.org/m113combat.htmAhem, COMBAT REFORM APOLOGY CARD PLEASE
>>65091263
>>65091313I'm sorry but i believe all information on Ruminant Procurement are classified.
>>65091235>Ukraine, the poorest country in Europe pre-war>produces decent-for-the-cost battle taxis in wartime conditions>Russia, self-proclaimed second army in the world>sends desperate drunks and convicts to battle on e-scooters and horsebackIf this was a novel, it would be in the bargain bin because it would be too ridiculously contrived
>>65091316Go to bed Mike.
>>65091258Translated
>>65091235Is it related to anything Turkish. The Turks bought some of their armor tech to build up domestic industries from Ukrainian sources. Zaslon, etc. It would make sense if they utilized some Turkish production capacity. It looks like the amphibious APCs FNSS has been trying to hock for the last decade.>>65091241This thing costs under $1 million and is a simple armored box. If the Ukrainians actually wanted to full fledged build a new design for a proper IFV locally they'd probably be better served just going ahead with the local Berserk model they've been trying to build for some time which is kind of similar to a Puma or Lynx but built on an Oplot/T84 drivetrain. IIRC, they are building the Lynx locally but that project is mostly German financed and led, not a domestic design.
>>65091249>20mmGiven the current enemy if they made the 14.5mm option the standard it would be good enough, i would assume KPVs are significantly cheaper than bushmasters.
>>65091235Looks like fnss kaplan except still using 5 road wheels
>>65091338kpv is 12.7mm, nsv is 14.5mm and the big cost is in the rotating turret as opposted to a pintle mount for the .50 cal.
demilitarization status?
>>65091373>kpv is 12.7mm>nsv is 14.5mmYou need to be 18 to post on 4chan, please leave.
>>65091373>kpv is 12.7anon I....
TOTAL GAVIN SUPREMACY
>could have been kino and given it a quad-mount M2>goes with DShK (or is it the Kord?)Could have used the YakB-12.7, that would also have been kino.
>>65091241BAEshills need to leave.
>>65091338>14.5mmWhy, so the DPRK can sell to both sides?
>>65091263guys in penguin suits
>>65091297Better design a new variant of the infantry rifle specifically to fire out of the ports
>>65091335>Is it related to anything TurkishSupposedly no, domestic design. But it's in early phases, basically the manufacturer is just doing tests with the army. Serial production is expected later based on the rests of trials. At this point 60% of components are imported, with the goal of getting it a bit down over time once production starts up. Also some of the components are designed to be modular, such as being able to use different engines without changing the chassis. A bit question is use of aluminum - the company is supposedly wanting to design a steel based variant to hedge their risks of armored aluminum alloys not being available or enough for production.
>>65091235They got hundreds of old Dutch YPR, and a few G5 pmmc which the Netherlands will built 400 of under license. Tracked boxes are so fucking back.
>>65091452Yes.
>year three of armor being absent from frontlines because it is hard countered by drones on both sides>lets recreate obsolete tech, I'm sure it will work this time when there are no drones again for some reason
>>65091515>bullets and artillery hard counter humans>so lets get rid of soldiersIf only you understood that warfare isn't a round of War Thunder.
>>65091235Good
Honestly I'm surprised their heavy industry is operating.
>>65091539Not so surprising if you consider the following :>Russians
>>65091539box on tracks barely counts as heavy industry in this day and ageI know it does, but it doesn't *feel* like it should, YKWIS?
>>65091235but can it dance?
>>65091384Genius Russians are now attempting to trigger an integer overflow error, soon hohol armoury levels will reset to zero and demilitarisation will be achieved
>>65091515armour is only absent from one side of the frontlines, ukies still use it on the assault
>>65091558the Ukrainians have also lost most of their tankshow many do they have left now?that's why they're not very happy about continued Russian tank refurbishment / production
>>65091235Is that build in slat armor on the sides or do those perforated side plates have a different purpose?
>>65091560hard to say but going by the oryx data they should still have most of them leftat this point the strat is sending individual tanks/IFVs in with assault teams to clear out infiltrators when on the defence, and small squadrons to charge in and drop off/support troops when assaulting
>>65091564They are for handcuffing volunteers to the vehicle in traditional ukranian fashion>>65091539A lot of it is subbed to poland with final assembly in ukraine
>>65091568>going by the oryx data they should still have most of them leftyou must be looking at different Oryx data from mine, or have a different definition of "most"Ukes have logged 1,400 tank lossesthey started the war with supposedly 1,000 tanks, and received about 1,000 tanksso they have lost most of those, and have only 600 tanks leftall according to Oryx
>>65091582600 is plenty given how they are being used
>>65091539Shit happens when insteadof directly seeking out and bombing enemy war assests, you target civilian infrastructure and playgrounds and just write it off as HATO cloning facilities/Abrams assembly lines
>>65091644600 is only enough to support about 13 infantry brigades, subtracting the usual overheads for tanks in repair / maintenanceanyway, I hope they've figured out a sustainable new supply of tanks.
>>65091644to clarify what I mean by this~40 leo 2s~20 abrams3 challysmeans that the bulk of losses has been old soviet deathtraps, while the majority of the tanks being used in this stage of the war are the faster and more maneuvreable western models as they need to get in and out before Russian drone teams can respond
>>65091582That figure doesn't count russian tanks captured and pushed into ukie service no? That famous ukrainian captured T-80BVM "bunny" (or whatever the crew named it) that supposedly got 3-4 tank kills before being droned after the crew abandoned it isn't listen on oryx.
>>65091687they received roughly 100 Leopards, 70 Abrams and 14 Challengers of different marks, the rest are of Soviet designthey lost 24 Abrams, 3 Challengers and nearly 80 Leopards, leaving 20 Leopards, 46 Abrams and 11 Challengers, less than a hundred of the remaining 600 Ukrainian tanks>>65091691trueOryx counts 538 Russian tanks captured. that would actually be nearly half the current Ukrainian inventory as you can see, but of course many if not most of these might be inoperable due to battle damagethey would still be a good source of spare parts of course
>>65091519That is literally what happened, considering numbers of infantry fielded
>>65091756>+1 million casualties on the Russian side aloneYeah, that's totally what happened, lmao
>>65091274Ehh, they inhabited the same land as us but it's a very big stretch to say we inherited anything from them besides their tombs.
>>65091297>t give it portholes
>a fucking Vietnam era shitboxMeanwhile, Russia has TIGERS!
>14.5mm machine gunFucking hell. Why tough? Too much to kill infantry, too little to penetrate armor?
>>65091833I can only guess that the Soviets wanted almost-cannon performance on the cheapNATO militaries preferred to go straight to 20mm, mainly because it performs better for roughly the same weapon weight, also because they unfucked 20mm cannon shortly before WW2
>>65091833maybe they have a surplus
Of all the things they could have copied, why would they choose M114?? I thought it was shitty in regards of crew protection?
>>65091833>Too much to kill infantryNot a thing>too little to penetrate armorMore than enough for BTRs, BMPs and the civilian shit ruslims use
>>65091888you assume they've copied anything and not just one metal box looking like another
How far out are we from a floating drone carrier that can 3D print them on the fly to replace downed ones?
>>65091758We can at least hope
>>65091833>Fucking hell. Why tough?probably as an anti-aircraft weapon, heavy MGs shoot much straighter and faster than autocannons so they can hit fast planes much more easily.
>>65091911we'd need nanolathing for that I'm afraid
>>65091833>Effective firing range 3,000 m (9,800 ft)>Maximum firing range 4,000 m (13,000 ft)
>>65091235Kaplan STA from Turkey
>>65091946Kaplan is supposedly heavier and designed to float.
>>65091833In Ukraine 14.5mm does most of what a light autocannon does but can carry alot more ammo while being much smaller and cheaper than a AC. Assuming they are putting it into the unmanned turret from OP it is just fine for AA duty, that is why the Norks put it on everything. >>65091881>>65091886>>65091923It was a AT rifle round that got turned into a AA round, the Soviets mostly used it for that. They very much have alot lying arond.More importently the version they are using the KPVT only weighs about 100lbs , a 25mm would weigh at least 250+ and have half the ammo storage. For comparison a 12.7mm M2 weighs 82lbs, KPVs are very effective for their weight and the ammo is widely available. If your MIC isn't tied down to NATO standard rounds there is almost no real reason to design a unmanned turret capable of taking a 12.7mm gun without making 14.5mm an option. Remember this isn't a IFV it is an APC, adding the KPV as an option lets it act in some IFV roles like 323s can.
>>65091263T-666 Armadarminator, out in (current year+4).
>>65092073>a 25mm would weigh at least 250+ and havesuperior FCS to a hand-aimed KPVTa better comparison is a single-barrel gas-operated 20mm Rh202 which is 170 lbs, a mount made with modern lightweight alloys can knock at least a quarter off that I'd think
>>65091946>>65092051Speaking of the platform, Brazil is eyeing up buying the Tulpar with Centauro 2 tower on top.
>>65091758>russia is competent and an actual cutting edge of military scienceI'd ask if you're retarded, but that question would task your brain too much
>>65092137But the mount they are using isn't hand aimed, it is unmanned. Adopting a 12.7mm mount to 14.5mm is an order of magnitude less difficult than changing it for 25mm, they clearly want an affordable common mount. Besides, if you need thousands of APCs quickly then using guns you already have is far cheaper than buying from Germany and waiting a decade for them to make them. Ukraine has IFV designs, this is an APC not a IFV.
>>65092185>it is unmannedsource on the mount weight thenProtector and CROWS are both over a hundred lbs and that's just the mount itself, net of gun> less difficult>affordablesure, but I was discussing the issue of weight only
>>65092185>Ukraine has IFV designs, this is an APC not a IFV.I'm positive this is just a modular test bed and if it shows itself in a positive way they'll just have an option with a different turret for IFV roles.
>>65092204>weight onlyA mount for a 12.7/14.5mm will weigh less than a 25mm due to basic physics. Ukraine doesn't want it to have a 25mm since it is an APC not a IFV. If they wanted a 25mm it would have one and be a IFV. They have IFVs, this isn't one of them. They want this for the same reason the US uses Bradlys and m113s at the same time, they are different things.The only reason 14.5mm is even being mentioned as an option is that a 12.7mm mount can carry it just fine and they have them on hand. It would be foolish for then not to have that option. A modern 25mm (Bush Master) turret probably costs more than entire APC and would turn it into a expensive (and poorly protected) IFV which this isn't. The German 20mm gun mentioned weighs nearly twice as much and has half the range.
>>65092266Don't ukies have domestic 25mm/30mm auto-cannon turrets? Like those on BTR-4s which shredded ruslims in Mariupol during the early days?
>>65092221That is fine, but this isn't that version. I don't understand what the argument is about; if you aren't stuck to western design procurment and you have a 12.7mm mount that can easily accept a KPVT and you have a bunch of them why not make the mount capable of using them? If you can save time and money with a minor adjustment that coincidently gives you a more powerful weapon option why not?
>>65091335No, its born and bred in Ukraine. Articles talking about it just dropped today and UkrArmoTech has said that they took heavy inspiration from the M113. Initial plans are for 60% import parts before slowly becoming 100% locally made>>65092221There's talks about it being a modular hull, but no specifics were given outside of "Make it an APC with modularity in mind"
>>65092275Yes, BTR-4s use the same gun as the BMP-2 but with a vastly improved (and more expensive) FCS.
>>65091700>>65091700The Challengers are all gone. Aside from battle losses, they suffered breakdowns. Brits didn't sent very few spare parts so they had to cannibalise the 14 they had. Bongs have been cannibalising their own tanks for a while now (I also believe there were manufacturing issues meaning that spares aren't guaranteed to be interchangeable) so that's why they didn't send more than 14 tanks in the first place. It's a real shame, the ukies seemed to really like them and you didn't see them get the same ERA treatment the Abrams did, so clearly they trusted the protection it offered. It's sad that one of Ukraines biggest supporters has so little to send.
>>65092299Are you really a supporter if you have nothing to give? At that point it’s just feels.
>>65092266>The German 20mm gun mentioned weighs nearly twice as much and has half the range. The range disparity isn't that big. As far as I can tell, figures are ~1500 m against air targets (vs ~2000 for KPVT), and ~2500 m against ground (vs ~3000 for KPVT). So noticeably shorter, but not half. That said, (as you've alredy mentioned) the big KPVT pros are lower weight (which also translates into lower recoil) and ample supply (both barrels and ammo). Having a gun that's only about 30% heavier than an equivalent .50 cal (ex. M2), while having 75-80% of a 20 mm autocannon's overall performance (even slightly better in a couple metrics) is a good compromise.
>>65092284>but no specificsA big element is on being able to use different foreign parts, such as not being tied down to one specific model or even vendor of engine and such, i.e. you can use multiple different engines without it requiring you to make a new variant of the shitbox.
>>65092403The range comparision seem to be based on 'effective' 20mm range vs 'maximum' 14.5mm range. Besides the KPV being a good weapon there is a supply advantage: There were so many made that finding spare parts and ammo will never be a issue.
>>65092284>Ukrainians praise M113 for human factors and serviceability over Soviet shit>Praised for being like a civilian tractor for repairabilityIt hurts me that their defense industry was held back by the slow rotting corpse of Sovietism in their government. We could have had a third faction in terms of vehicle design attitudes on the East-West spectrum.
>>65092311Those 14 challengers broke the taboo and allowed heavy equipment to go into Ukraine. Same story with storm shadow. The UK has also done alot intelligence work, troop training, economic support and just recently 120,000 drones. We should have sent more if we hadn't gutted our own military for decades but it's not like the UK has only sent thoughts and prayers.
>>65092694Yugoslavia and South Africa is what you're looking for
>>65092694>>65092732China and the Norks are getting there, the Type 63 and Type 323 APC families are an explicit rejection of Soviet designs and have near western levels of space for the troops.
>>65092266>hurr durr basic physicspulled it out of your ass then, right
>>65092846You need detailed 'proof' to know that a gun that is more than twice the weight with several times the recoil needs a more robust mount than a smaller one?
>>65091476Most people don't know how expensive adding an effective turret is or putting infantry on armored transport already is.
>>65091431NTC OPFOR VISMOD (mobile training dummy)
>>65091258The computer aim assisted turret that can shoot down drones is going to be standard equipment on everything.
>>65091560T72Bs are said to have completely dried up lately. Russia only has A and Yral hulls remaining for the 72 family
>>65093100The T-62 and it's variants outliving every other Soviet tank design will never stop being funny.
>>65091758Easy there comrade, questioning the official numbers of the Russian Ministry of Defence is a serious crime
>>65092299>The Challengers are all gone>source: my ass
>>65092874I gave you an example of you being full of shit, namely that the old Rh202 single hand-worked mount weighs under 200lbs altogether, so stuff the recoil bullshit up your ass
>>65093529>Rh202 single hand-worked mount weighs under 200lbs altogetherhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_Mk_20_Rh-202>Mass 1,640 kg Do you think the operator is just going to hold up the gun and fire it with his hands? The 83kg weigh is the gun itself without ammo or a mount you blithering retard.
>>65093529>>65093604>Recoil force: 550–750 kgHigh school physics is hard, why don't you swear and bitch some more so everyone can keep laughing at how ignorant you are?
>>65093639>>65093604>Mass 1,640 kgthat's inclusive of the power turret on that vehicle, dickhead>Do you think the operator is just going to hold up the gun and fire it with his hands?Yeskids like you wouldn't know, but it was actually quite common since 85 years ago for 20mm guns to be trained and fired entirely by hand
>>65093687That is 400+ lbs, that does not include the mount you dolt. You know that because you are looking at the exact same wiki page as me. Ukraine is making a unmanned turret with modern optics not a swivel gun, you know that these are entirely seperate things and are just acting like a retard because you are embarrassed and too childish to back down.
>>65093687>that's inclusive of the power turret on that vehicleYou mean the power turret that is going on the vehicle we are talking about or did you forget that part?
>>65093604>>65093639oh no, he can't possibly be operating this weapon by hand, this photo must be fucking AIthis entire assembly weighs 167kg including electronics and ammo according to Nextera KPV with tripod is 200kgfuck off>>65093713>Ukraine is making a unmanned turret with modern opticsand if this is so then you would know that the stabilisation system and sights would be most of the weight AND be the same for both systems, and for both systems the gun alone nett of the mount and optics would both weigh about 100kgthe KPV has similar weight as a modern NATO 20mm, seethe, cope, and dilate>>65093723not necessarily. they could opt for an unpowered pintle mount if they wish.
>>65093529the old Rh202 single hand-worked mount weighs under 200lbs altogether>mount weighs under 200lbsEnglish is hard isn't it?
>>65093728The argument was you claiming the gun and mount weighed under 200 lbs, you are clearly wrong.>not necessarily. they could opt for an unpowered pintle mount if they wish.Yes, this is clearly a manned pintle they have here: >>65091258>alone nett of the mount and optics would both weigh about 100kg4chan is an english board, please speak it. The lightest modern 20mm unmanned turrets weigh over a ton.
>>65092185If you can adapt your mount to 14.5x114 you should be able to adapt it to 23x115.
>ask about the purpose of 14.5mm calibre>open the thread day later>it devolved into autistic slapstick fight concerning the weight of mounted MGsI'm sorry guys.
>>65094087*I meant slap fight obviously.Won't disturb you further.
>>65091765Just paint horse girls with bows on your tanks.Trust me bro.
>>65091328>12.7mm>clearly a 14.5mm KPV
>>65091249>the enemy might mistake it for a tank so better give it some atgm's so it can defend itselfBut where would they put the men.
>>65091274Steppe butt.
>>65094317Steppe boobs.
>>65094087>>65094107It's just one crazy guy who knows he is full of shit, otherwise the rest of the thread was just people commenting that it was neat that they found a use for spare KPVTs.
Mark my words, M113 and its derivatives will fight on Mars
being shoved into a vietnam-era deathtrap will surely make ukrainians stop dodging the draft and deserting en massehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_conscription_crisishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_desertion_crisis
>>65095309>Al Jazeera>no Date aor linkAlso, Why did you swap where Ukrainians and Russians were in the article?
>>65095321>noooo the article is le fake!!!onehttps://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/12/9/record-numbers-of-ukrainians-desert-army-amid-losses-to-russiacorroborated byhttps://kyivindependent.com/over-250-000-cases-of-desertion-and-unauthorized-abandonment-of-military-units-opened-in-ukraine-since-2022/
>>65095309that was when ukraine was more like russia. now ukraine is a proper wedtern democracy with zero tolerance for antisemitism, so ukrianian defenders have a cause worth fighting for.
>>65095309You just can’t help yourself can you
>>65095309I've been seeing this same type of article for 4 years now.
>>65095309>Russia is stuck in a stalemate against a nation with no fighting menGrim as fuck
>>65091539For some reason Russia would rather KALIBRate a veterinarian clinic instead of a known foundry.
>>65095738And this is relevant to the war how?How many times have you posted this now?I wish for Putin to just take all of Russia offline so we never have to see another zigger post
