>>65092844https://news.usni.org/2026/04/20/navys-next-generation-f-a-xx-downselect-expected-in-augustWith the timing of this in relation to Caudle saying there’s effectively only one company that could deliver on the desired timeline, I wonder if this is a victory lap or a last ditch marketing effort to try and sway the selection. In any event, it is very interesting to see that renders are consistent in showing a dorsal inlet. There are a lot of technical challenges there, but looking at B-21 and MQ-25 both competitors have clearly put a lot of time and money into exotic inlet R&D that is now bearing fruit. Looking forward to August, hopefully the admin doesn’t blue ball us again.
>>65092860Maybe. There's definitely interest in NG getting F/A-XX just to not let Boeing or LM get it. So you get a trifecta of fighter suppliers with F-35 from LM, F-47 from Boeing, and F/A-XX from NG.The only other part I can maybe see why they don't do NG is if NG is somehow lacking the production capacity somehow since they're tied by also the B-21 and RQ-180s.
>>65092913I think a lot of it probably will come down to whether the Air Force actually does increase the B-21 buy to 150+ like has been floated, how easily the floor space NG has used for Super Hornet component production can be converted, and how much if any spare bandwidth Boeing actually has with how aggressive the F-47 schedule is. Boeing has certainly made some very large investments in manufacturing floor space recently, however those buildings in St. Louis aren’t even close to ready. Both Boeing and NG have some workers and floor space freeing up now that Super Hornet production is wrapping, but it’s very possible those bodies move over to F-47 in Boeing’s case. NG does have the massive advantage that the engineering work on B-21 is effectively finished, and has said publicly there will be job cuts if they don’t get a new program to throw those engineers at. And of course as you mentioned nobody wants Boeing to have a 6th generation monopoly with the excesses of LockMart’s fresh in the mind. I’ve personally been pulling for Ng for years, so I am a bit biased, but I’m still finding it pretty hard to call.
NG should get it. Not just because I think it should be called the Tomcat II, but because they have been exemplary with the B-21 so far. I think they have earned it.
Why can't they just do a F-47A, B, and C again instead of having multiple 6th gen programsLike, almost all the components are the same outside of the physical structure of the aircraft....
>>65092844
>>65092960Because carrier capable aircraft come with their own requirements that don't mesh with airforce requirments.The navy got fucked by the JSF/F-35 and they aren't looking to get fucked again.
>>65092960Because they want a completely different aircraft for a completely different role, and there are a lot of limitations and considerations that would harm both programs if they tried to pull an F-35 again. Also, there won’t be anything approaching engine commonality as the Air Force wants large, fancy, and expensive adaptive cycle engines while the Navy is going with a derivative, very possibly based off the F414 EPE GE was pitching 15 years ago. That would give early F110 level thrust, similar to a Tomcat, while being a much lighter engine and allowing much more airframe volume to be used for things other than inlets, engines and fuel.
>>65092913Lockheed was out of the running for a long time now. I think the F35 soured a lot of people in procurement
>>65093020That's what happens when you fuck the government with IP locked sustainment contracts for 70 years.
>>65093020That and Boeing made a considerable effort to expand a lot of capacity to accommodate NGAD or F/A-XX at minimum back during the T-X program days since they're TACAIR division would be dead without one of the NGAD programs. They can't run on F-15 forever. NG sorta floundered during T-X but made up for it with B-21. But LM is LM and they're tied down by F-35.
>>65093020LM will be fine. The F35 can be sold outside of the US. The NGAD and F/A-XX is US only, right? So unless we put in a massive order for both, Boeing and NG don’t really have any other avenues with the new gen fighters if US congress ever decides to cut funding and procurement over the next decade.
>>65092860A cursory check and Boeing's stock has had a big jump on the last couple days, which also happened when they were awarded NGAD. I don't pay much attention to those things though, so it might just be a coincidence.
>>65094023F-47 is going to be the crazy cutting edge, high tech, unable to be exported because nobody else can afford them even if Congress doesn’t outlaw it option. F/A-XX on the other hand should be viewed as more of a minimum viable Super Hornet replacement for the threats of the 2040s. Public statements indicate they are eschewing bleeding edge tech like adaptive cycle engines to keep costs down. If F-47 is only bought as a 1:1 Raptor replacement then F/A-XX probably produces more airframes if the Navy intends on having at least two squadrons per carrier, plus necessary test and training squadrons. It would also be the only viable next generation American export offering, as it should be much cheaper and have a higher focus on strike roles.
>>65094082Their 777x made a breakthrough for certification today so that's probably why
Hi-lo? No it's various sizes of multirole fighter-bomber the whole way down, like those turtles holding up the world.
>>65092844>intakes so far back they will stave under high alphaNever put any weight in these images, they are made by artists for PR not by engineers for reality.
>>65092960they need an attack plane that can do air to air and dead
>>65094096Honestly with NGAP taking so long and costing so much when the F-47 finally enters production with the NGAP engine, it'll probably cost more than a B-21 (or close to it).
>>65094312Why would anyone care about dogfighting in the 21st century? All combat aircraft are stealth bombers now, the fighters are just bombers with air to air missiles.
It's a crime Boeing got the F-47.
>>65094605To defend from an incoming missile you turn, the faster you turn the better your odds.You could argue that the day of the 9g manned fighter is dead and I could see a 6g doing the job nearly as well but a 3g fighter is going to take hits a better plane would have evaded.As for unmanned I think we'll end up with 20g+ uncrewed fighters that can defeat missiles a human never could.
>>65094692They had the balls to invest over $1B into a production line expansion years before they even won the contract.It was gun against their head, make or break for their military aviation devision.They sure as fuck weren't giving it to lockheed who can barely keep up with the F-35 and F-16 orders at the moment, and NG had already dropped out to focus on the B-21 and F/A-XX.So who exactly should've won the F-47 bid BESIDES boeing?
>Burgers are stuck with Lockjeet Martin & Boeing F
>>65094748Better than the European situation. Or Chinese. Or Russian.
>>65094781Whatever helps you cope mon ami
>>65094713Or maybe you could put lazors on a B21 and pew pew at missilesA thousand B21s is all you need50% in standard configuration30% in laser configuration20% in tanker configuration
>>65094788I accept your concession.
>>65092960because this is the high of the high-low mix. the low part of the mix is the F-35. it's supposed to be the 'cheap' option of the air fleet moving forwards, the one that can really multi-role and do anything. the NGAD stuff is likely to be much more specialized for air superiority style missions, whatever form those take.
>>65094788All I have to do is look in the gcap thread
>>65095127B-21 can't rush to intercept.You need a high-speed, highly capable, independent interceptor that either internally carries, or is deployed with similarly fast CCA/Loyal wingmen.That's what NGAD (F-47 + 6th gen CCAs) is all about. B-21 will be great, but the F-47 is projected to be able to cover 1000 miles in ~30-45 minutes (potentially Mach 2+); that would take a B-21 90+ minutes to do.And the NGAP engines will allow the F-47 to do it with fuel to spare for efficient loitering after that 1000 mile sprint, and with electrical generation capacity on tap to run an advanced 6th gen sensor suite and drone coordination node.
>>65092960Did you not see the retardedly huge cost of the f35? It's better to make things good at a few things rather than make something good at everything
>>65095177>reformtard feels emboldened enough to crawl out of it's hole.
>>65092844reminds me of the chink one
>>65095184No clue who you're talking about. The f35 took too long to build. Any retard can think of that
>>65095173Let drones intercept
>>65094713>To defend from an incoming missile you turn, the faster you turn the better your odds.This is a ridiculous oversimplification that makes me think your views have been informed by Ace Combat
>>65095259That doesn't work, the drones aren't large enough to do sensor fusion.The idea being the F-47 is your fast/stealthy high performance drone controller that fuses all of the sensor data into a single battle picture that can then be acted upon.There is simply no way you're packing enough processing power into a CCA to do sensor fusion by itself.
>>65095263That's literally how it works. You either notch by turning perpendicular to the missile and trying to break the radar lock, or you go cold and run so that the missile has to waste energy chasing you. After, you turn back in to reengage. Turning hard allows all of those moves to be more efficient with less dead time making the turn into your defensive or offensive maneuver. BVR is all about managing your distance to the enemy. Turning helps with that.
>>65095273hurry up miniaturizing integrated circuits for planes and do this kind of stuff using something smaller than a mainframe from the Triassic
>>65095400Sounds like a great concept for 7th gen fighters in the 2080-2100s.
>>65092844>J-50 at home
>>65095505Yeah, but it's navalized, has RAM that doesn't destroy itself after an hour in flight, and will have engines that don't shit themselves every few hundred hours.Just look at the J-20, the entire reason they're coming out with the J-20S is because their software is fucked to the point they HAVE to have a WSO to manage the radar/EW/targeting shit that was supposed to be handled via sensor fusion and computers.The idea that any american fighter is a derivative of a chinese fighter is a joke.
>>65095543J-50 is a naval fighter dummy and F/A-XX is a carbon copy in concept and execution in BlenderAlso>J-20S' WSOHis sole reason for existence is to take off workload from the pilot so he can focus on flying the aircraft while the WSO controls loyal wingmen. That's it. >Two seaters :)>Two seaters, China >:(
>>65095543>>65095577I always wondered why there aren't two seated variants of the F-22 and F-35
The idea that China can't write software or that military shit isn't fucking trivial/10+ years behind anything commercial is a joke
>>65094713By compromising your stealth for maneuverability, you open yourself up to being shot at by missiles that never even would have known you were there otherwise.
>>65095579F-22 is being phased out and the F-35 is by concept incompatible as it's equipped with the retarded SDLF or a fuel tank in the F-35A and there's no room for expansion.
>>65095596You could just make it longer. It's been done before.
>>65095505Sure, if you’re completely retarded. Dorsal inlets and their implications would make the two absolutely incomparable in role
>>65095577Lol and the fact they spent the last half decade+ flying single seaters until realizing their software was dogshit and they HAVE to build a 2 seater to compensate should also be ignored cause china, right?Also purging the J-20 lead designer for likely a combination of lying about the J-20 testing/capabilities/comparisons to western jets, and the usual graft/corruption that is rife within china is totally showing how far ahead the chinese aviation industry is.
>>65095629Two seaters aren't a novelty for China. China has been building two seaters dating all the way back to the JJ-5. Why the J-20S was made is public info, to allow a second person to control loyal wingmen.>softwareCope>J-20's lead designerDude's been found guilty of corruption and sentenced.>but my favourite news outlet's headcanonIrrelevant>but MY headcanonIrrelevant >inb4 weeding out corrupt people is bad
>>65095643Yeah and i'm sure the WS-15 doesn't burn hotter than the sun and melt itself every few hundred hours.I'm also sure the RAM peeling off during high speed maneuvers is also just a myth. And the minor detail about the new radar not being able to share targeting data with the PL-15 missiles is totally not a problem.And lest we forget the rumors that the J-20's electronic warfare system is blinding its own radar.
>>65095654>more made up bs
>>65094748>Lockheed has the F35 plus all kinds of drones and missiles>Boeing has the F47 plus civilian airliners and all kinds of drones>NG hopefully gets the F/A-XX in addition to the B21 and all of its drones>This doesn't count the countless space programs that all 3 are dipping intoPersonally I think Boeing has its hands full with the civilian sector along with the F47 so all of this kerfuffle from NG is just a tongue-in-cheek manner of telling people that they won the contract
>>65095658Yeah, the same made-up way that lets you say the F-47 is a PowerPoint.
>>65095687May I see a F-47?
>>65095690If you don't get paid for this, or are at least a chink yourself, look at what you're doing with your life.
>>65095696That's not a F-47
>>65095687I mean the F-47 is pretty much a grok gen Trump named after himself, it's even "scheduled" for a first flight right before Trump's presidency ends.
>>65095666Northrop has a lot on its plate, both in terms of work and contract value, with Sentinel. Given that they are at this point effectively the contractor for the modernization of our nuclear triad I don’t think the government views them as needing more work, and indeed may be afraid to give it to them if they believe it would detract from what are viewed as higher priority programs.
>>65095704>>65095698It had a flying demonstrator that reportedly logged “hundreds” of flight hours, and the first test airframes are currently being manufactured.Boeing confirmed construction on the first full F-47 test article began in early fall 2025 or late summer.Honestly I can't decide if you fucks are actually retarded or if you just enjoy pretending to be because then you can act like china is actually as good as you want it to be.
>>65095716David Allvin said the F-47 is expected to first fly in 2029 and that the manufacturing of the first unit has "begun", whatever that really means because it can be just a bag of bolts>prototypeThat's an X-plane, a proof of concept for aerodynamics, not a F-47 prototype.
>>65095734And where the fuck is the proof the current J-50/J-36 aren't exactly the same things?Hell, we know they basically CAN'T be true 6th gen even if they ARE brand new airframes, china simply don't have the engines for 6th gen capability.The US is targeting 1-1.2MW of electrical power generation, on top of high thrust (40,000lbf+) and high efficiency from being an adaptive cycle engine.UK/IT/JP with GCAP is targeting ~500-600kW of electrical power generation on top of high thrust (40,000lbf+), and while they wont have a full adaptive cycle, they're doing a 2.5 stream (instead of 3 stream) highly efficient engine. Defense analysts have estimated the WS-10 at ~40-60kW per engine, which would put total installed power at ~80-120kW in the J-20.The WS-15 is estimated to be ~80-100kW, which would be ~160-200kW in the J-20.We KNOW for a fact the WS-15 still isn't 100% ready for service (or they're struggling heavily in producing it in quantities needed for the J-20 production rate), and yet we're supposed to believe they've got a new, more powerful engine that produces 250kW+ per engine in a handful of years? Or more realistically, they're using the WS-10/15 still in the J-36/J-50 airframes making them solidly 5th gen, if you do give them sensor fusion and CCAs.
>>65095696This was a gud thread then nek minute that thing appeared I swear this place has made me more racist than any other board because they’re exactly the same in real life, if you get to know them personally of course. Literal insect people and i still shiver my timbers thinking about it
>>65095758>we can't into 6th gen therefore you can't either despite having real metal flying aircraft, and various models on top of that, visually confirmed since 2021Crab in the bucket mentalityCrazy shit if you stop to think about it>Electrical power generationSecret>ThrustSecret>EstimatesIrrelevant>We KNOWYou don't, it's a new engine for a J-20 variant released in mid 2025
>>65095734With the number of clear major airframe changes we have seen on J-36 in the past year it is by American standards still in the demonstrator phase, years away from being production representative. Meanwhile what was almost certainly one of the NGAD demonstrators was caught by satellite on the ramp at Groom in early 2022.
>>65095823Seriously, are you american and just a self hating retard or are you a chink retard that actually believes this shit?Or worse, an american retard who believes this shit?
>>65095833>major airframe changesThe J-36 hasn't had visible changes beyond the diamond engine nozzles which might mean they're TVC, all three of them.Also by the head of ACC's own admission the J-36 has been flying at the very least since 2021 and will reach OC before future American 6th gens.
>>65095864i like it because it's differentnot everything has to be crab
>>65095823>It flies and it's shaped like a dorito and therefore we should take Chinese claims at face value even though all of the specs are secret and Chinese military equipment failed to perform as advertised [read: was publicly sodomized] by the US twice in the last three monthsUh-huh.
>>65095711We should just give everything to Northrop. Including Boing and Locksneed.
>>65095864>no visible changes>they just reworked it to have fucking thrust vectoringYou’re also ignoring the switch from an F-22 style caret inlet to a DSI. As well as completely changing the landing gear. Meaning the design was not frozen until late 2025 at the earliest, assuming we don’t see any further revisions. All these changes require a massive amount of new testing, you have to reprove the entire flight profile and revalidate all your flight control laws. You do not make that level of change to a mature design on the verge of IOC.
>>65095881>All these changes require a massive amount of new testing, you have to reprove the entire flight profile and revalidate all your flight control lawsYou really think the chinks bother with any of that shit? Testing and validation is wasteful overhead that gets in the way of adopting implessive new hardware. Get in the fucking plane, Shinji.
>>65095877Iran doesn't use Chinese equipment beyond the JY-14 which is just a surveillance radar, general purpose electronics and some MANPADsAnyways, you're the pot calling the kettle black>Many aircraft lost>Tomahawks and many GBUs failed to detonate and were retrieved nearly intact>THAADs destroyed>Patriots destroyed>One billion USD a day to keep the circus going>58 billion USD since the shitshow started down the drain, without accounting for the extremely expensive equipment that was destroyed >Whole OP reduced to a shitty cockblock competitionYeah I think the US got sodomized>But the cardboard figure and speedboatsfuni
>>65095177>>65095184The answer to reformtard is to go dumber, in your hearts you all know this is true.
>>65094713> 20g+ uncrewed fighters that can defeat missiles a human never could.That’s not how it works. Pilots are not the limiting factor on sustainable G’s for fighter aircraft.
>>65095933Planes today are built with a structural load limit of ~10g because the human can take 9g.Missiles today are built with a structural limit of ~60g because they don't have a pilot. I do understand that means more material, more weight, less efficiency and I don't think we'll see them by 2030 but by 2050 I would be surprised if everything from PGMs to drones to unmanned fighters aren't built with erratic high g defensive maneuvers as standard to penetrate defences.
>>65095907>the US didn’t murder all of us so we win!Every damn day with this cope.
>>65095864>J-36 has been flying at the very least since 2021fucking lol
>>65095997Missiles have a higher structural limit because they rely on thrust not lift
>>65095666Boeing is also including getting F-47 contract in the price of the navy fighter cost so it could underside bid Northrop significantly.
>>65095177F-35 is literally cheaper than the lowest-spec 4.5 gens.>>65095907Iran had HQ-9B and S-400, which represent the highest tier of Chinese air defenses apart from the HQ-9C that has only existed for barely a year and isn't widely fielded yet.
>>65096092A plane pulling extreme G will bleed a lot of speed, I'm not saying they will sustain scissors at 20g. I am saying that being able to put a missile on your right beam forcing it to pull a hard right for lead pursuit then switching it to a left beam making it bleed a heap of energy maintaining lead is how BVR works and being able to do those turns is less miles offers a big advantage.Tomcats have pulled 14g and landed, if they were built for more there is no reason they couldn't pull more.
>>65096210I think his point is that you have to make a ton of compromises that just aren't worth it to keep the wings from falling off at 20g. Missiles just need tiny vanes for guidance, not wings large enough to keep them in the air.
>>65096250Maybe, I'm no aerospace engineer.
>>65095629>chinese two seater: smug face>american two seater: onions faceitsallsotiresome.gif
>>65096147Iran doesn't have even the base HQ-9. Only Arab intelligence says otherwise. >HQ-9x current operators: Azerbaijan, China, Morocco, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Egypt>Latest to receive a battery was Azerbaijan in late 2025Iran 99% of the times goes window shopping and doesn't buy, they did the same with J-10sAlso, if it was destroyed images of it would've been posted for days on end. >S-400Chinese weapons destroyed one too.
>>65094713notching uses up a lot of airspeed, kind of a one trick move
>>65096384>Iran doesn't have even the base HQ-9. Only Arab intelligence says otherwise.Literally Iran themselves stated they've taken delivery of HQ-9B systems.>Chinese weapons destroyed one too.Ah yes, reminds me that HQ-9Bs were destroyed in Pakistan as well.
>>65096414They don't have HQ-9s>PakistanNo evidence. Upon a Google search all you can find is jeet al and seo spam.
>>65094692not surprising since lockmart's gotten a lionshare of big name contracts the last couple decades, Northrup got the B-21 and they're chosen to update our nuclear arsenal.Boeing kind of needed this, especially after the diarrhea of their commercial market fuck ups the last 10 years.
Exciting times in aviationhttps://aviationweek.com/defense/budget-policy-operations/fcas-decision-expected-week-german-defense-minister-says
>>65096957Hopefully Ukraine + the clear race towards WW3 will make them get their shit together this time.
>>65092967we need more kino like Stealth again.https://youtu.be/YbWeM0PlI6Q
>>65093020LM is still going full throttle producing new F-35s, they can skip a fucking contract or two.
