>>65097724
What? This isn't a combat mission where they fight off the Iranians, the idea here is that just like with landmines sea mines tend to be a lingering big pain in the dick long after hostilities end. Assumption is that at some point the war trump started will be over one way or another and then shipping will resume but not if there are mines, and we may or may not have the USN do much of anything to clean up. Nobody can trust us for sure to do so anyway. Nobody wants to join in on direct fighting but helping fix things after is both good PR and just plain good economics, the faster shipping gets moving the better for literally everyone.

Report the other day was that Ukraine has given up on Trump and America while he remains in power and is now trying hardcore to build more heft with anyone it can. Doing a solid to the EU, UK, and rich gulf countries with a bunch of assets they can't use in the Black Sea anyway while also getting some useful experience is good geopolitics and good statecraft, simple as.

>>65097724
The gulf states should load these ships with their slaves and force them to demine the strait, and have a 24/7 livestream recording them

>>65097724
>So now Ukraine has been given a navy, how effective do you think it could be in the Strait of Hormuz?
more effective than russia or irans

>>65097724
The ships that were given to Ukraine were pretty much already doing this before hand over.

So I suppose it's a good idea, so long as Russia doesn't try to sink them with submarines and the like around Hormuz. Hunts and Tripartite class don't have much chance against that kind of thing and how would western escorts work? could they even fire on a Russian submarine if they detected it?

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>trump tells ukraine to go fuck themself a hundreed times over
>bibi sides with putin too
>Never sent one piece of aid ever
>When bombs started fallimg telaviv they asked them to send the patriots they gave them as aid back
>Ukraine still sending them help

>>65097950
>russian subs attacking a multinational mine clearing fleet in the midst of random USN and maybe other nations warships/fleets dotted around
Not that I ever want to underestimate the retardedness of Monke and ziggers, but this feels like a near 0% event. There is a lot of fog of war with submarines, and this is one case where it definitely doesn't work in the subs' favor.
>could they even fire on a Russian submarine if they detected it?
They have no idea exactly what it's doing, nobody has any magical underwater scope. They detect the sub by hearing it and signature and/or just by asking around and knowing it's not one of theirs. To fire a torpedo at something the sub has to open and flood its torpedo tubes, and EVERYONE in the area will hear that, and any fish that go in the water, but nobody will have any idea what it's aiming for.

So yeah absolutely high chance of ships launching ASROCs or whatever right away as they also go to maneuver and launch any torpedo countermeasures they've got. It'd be a really insane risk to take for no particular gain at all. An anti-mine ship helping out in the Hormuz has no role in the Ukraine war, it's going to piss off a lot of powerful countries. Including quite possibly the Iranians too.

>>65097961
dumb frog poster
>Ukraine still sending them help
How is helping a brit/french force after hostilities concluded and in turn helping the EU economy which is far more affected then America's anything but clear legitimate Ukrainian national self-interest, trying to build stronger alliances away from America? Nothing wrong with it at all.

>>65097724
given the stellar result of AA that managed to stop absolutely nothing (which says a lot about ukraine bs number) i dont see how this ships are gonna last

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>>65097985
but the jews?

>>65097985
the main economies affected at the Gulf states that are US allies and Asia most of whom are US allies
none of those are planning to jack and shit to keep the straight of Hormuz open
but I guess the Europeans are the freeloaders

>>65098016
Moscow doesn't need to insert a wedge between the USA and the gulf states

>>65098016
I sure hope you're only pretending to be mentally retarded.

>>65097961
America could have had an eternally grateful ally that would have secured the European front with a knife to Russia's throat while buying whatever the Americans were willing to sell.

Instead the plan was for them to surrender everything so that the US could make a trade deal with a country with a lower GDP than Italy, and that any American businesses would be insane to invest into.

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>>65098051
Europe gets about 5% of it's oil from the Gulf states
Asia gets about 30% to 40%
Asia needs Gulf oil 6 to 8 times more than the Europeans
despite the Japanese and Koreans needing Gulf oil at lot more than Europe they aren't being pressured again and again by Trump to go fix the problem he made for them
the Gulf states export more than 80% of their oil trough the straights and their economies are fully reliant on energy exports

>>65097961
Sure is the fate of ukie people. Look up the history of that place in 1917-1953.

>>65098074
>>65097985
Claiming America is not currently helping Ukraine is the most disingenuous bullshit of all time.
borderline paid shill level of ignorance

>>65098086
The current administration has tried to get Ukraine to surrender to Russia and has made deals regarding occupied Ukrainian territory with Russia. The US is only helping Ukraine because several key players within the military are up for it. If it were up to faggots like the Vice-President, they would simply drop everything. The faggots, Kegsbreath specifically, weren't even willing to tell them that they would discontinue aid shipments when asked, because the plan was to spring it on them.

>>65098075
>Europe gets about 5% of it's oil from the Gulf states
Again, don't be mentally retarded and try to brush things off with meaningless super high level numbers. The details matter, like regardless of crude, getting to actual vehicles 20% of EU's jet fuel comes from there. Just the disruption of losing it so far has already caused jet fuel to double in price. Tons of flights are being canceled or having prices raised a lot as a result, and obviously that has lots of ripple effects on economic activity. There's all kinds of these little dependencies. Like if fabrication-grade bromine got messed up that'd torpedo much of the global memory business:
>https://warontherocks.com/cogs-of-war/the-bromine-chokepoint-how-strife-in-the-middle-east-could-halt-production-of-the-worlds-memory-chips/
And you're frankly fucking crazy to act as if Asian disruption somehow has no effect on the EU too (or the US for that matter).

It's not about the end of the world, but recessions suck. And also mean less money that could go to helping Ukraine on a selfish level. Lending a hand to your relatively decent neighbor is a normal, smart move.

>>65097977
>An anti-mine ship helping out in the Hormuz has no role in the Ukraine war, it's going to piss off a lot of powerful countries. Including quite possibly the Iranians too.
Of course it does, it's training Ukrainian sailors and being a floating neo-nazi training camp in the eyes of Monke man. Plus getting a victory on the Ukrainian navy would make him feel nice a strong after all the spanking America just did to the Iranians (remember Russians love to copy Americans) and might be a good propaganda coup.

I think everyone would know pretty well what it was aiming for, there is little else a Russian sub is going to shoot at.

I was also more suggesting they'd try sink it in the med or similar desu, not outright in Hormuz (which would be extremely risky due to as you say, pissing off most of the world)

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>>65098086
>Claiming America is not currently helping Ukraine
Please show on the picture where American aid is

>>65098086
>Claiming America is not currently helping Ukraine is the most disingenuous bullshit of all time.
I didn't claim that, but you're being technically correct while disingenuous as fuck. Sure we are not presently actively getting in the way thankfully or trying to push vatnik drawn """peace plans""" which amount to total surrender, Trump having the attention span of a drunk fruit fly and now off on other things. We're letting SpaceX keep helping which is very good, still intel sharing and so on.

But the draw down is big and as much as Trump Administration could get away with. The NDAA authorized like $400 million or so total for FY2026 for the USAI, obviously that's better than $0, and any intelligence sharing and the like is helpful, but by military expenditure standards it's a minuscule drop in the bucket. For contrast Iran war is costing us about $1b/day in direct expenditure ignoring any economic costs. So we're basically allocating around 10 hours of Iran spending to Ukraine support for the entire year.

Yeah, that's not "not currently helping Ukraine" but it's also telling the Ukrainians the US is neutral to mildly friendly and they need to focus on the EU. I mean shit, we've literally said that. Trump has made no secret at all that he wants the EU to take over its own security and that he wants to kill NATO too. Well, they're slowly getting to work on it.

>>65097977
>possibly the Iranians too
you mean those iranians supporting the aggression against Ukraine?

>>65098108
I'm just pointing out that this gets played up as Europe's problem while Asia is in much hotter water over the closure of the straights
why? because the current US administration wants to keep pushing the narrative that the Europeans are freeloaders that won't do shit and even if they would want to couldn't
while also ignoring that the US's Asian allies are also not doing anything
>>65098115
those ships would be getting an escort form what ever European mission they'd be part of
and for all the ooking the monke doesn't want to start shit with them

>>65098115
>and being a floating neo-nazi training camp in the eyes of Monke man
He says that shit for PR, he's clearly drunk a fair amount of koolaid at this point but I doubt quite that much. Attacking stuff far away from the theater isn't a trivial move.
>I think everyone would know pretty well what it was aiming for, there is little else a Russian sub is going to shoot at.
They're fucking russians anon. Everyone remembers the "little green men" and shooting down civilian airliners.
1. who fucking knows what they're shooting at after that last round of krokadil vodka
2. who fucking knows if they've actually successfully aimed at whatever it was they wanted to shoot at even setting aside #1 and if the russian torpedos and guidance would do that anyway

Again, it's an unidentified submarine out of nowhere literally firing torpedos into a multinational fleet of warships. It's not impossible everyone just sits there and takes it but also very possible people shoot back. Or that it really does hit something else, because russians are retarded.
>sink it in the med
I guess this is mildly more conceivable although brings other challenges in turn but I think only if they were just heading somewhere all by themselves. If they're part of a fleet traveling I don't think it works any better.

Though also as I said: I don't want to underestimate the retarded idiocy of the snowgerians so hey who knows lol.

>>65098135
>you mean those iranians supporting the aggression against Ukraine?
Yes. If, IF this happens it'd be after the Iranians had negotiated some sort of real deal, which is potentially looking like one they'd have some gains out of. And if nothing else it'd give them time to stabilize their regime and get to remaking weapons and so on. They've shown no sign about somehow wanting to bring the EU actively into the war too, on the contrary I'm sure they'd love to see a further split in the West. So right after a deal is signed and the EU is literally sending free help to get things moving Russia went in and, well, torpedoed it? Yeah even the Iranians might be like MAYBE LATER BUT NOT RIGHT NOW YOU STUPID DRUNK FUCKS. Not because they suddenly love Ukraine, but being willing to sell Russia drones and try to get supplies that route isn't the same thing as wanting a neutral EU fleet attacked on their doorstep.

>>65098142
>I'm just pointing out that this gets played up as Europe's problem while Asia is in much hotter water over the closure of the straights
Asia being worse doesn't mean it's not still Europe's problem too anon. It's every rich country's problem, even if some are much less affected-by-raw-numbers. I want to emphasize the "raw numbers" part too because the political effects also matters, and that isn't purely down to raw numbers but how the population judges it. Like by the numbers so far the US is one of the most insulated, but because there was zero attempt to sell the war democratically or get any vote on it and it directly contradicts campaign promises it's deeply unpopular. So even though gas and diesel prices haven't like, doubled, people are still mad about it. A sacrifice that a population would be ok with for a war they supported doesn't mean it's one they're ok with for one they don't.

And the EU has its own deep economic and debt malaise as well as high expectations from its population about living standards and such. So its politicians are still going to care a lot and feel a lot of pressure, and just pointing and going "well uh vietnam has it worse guys stop complaining!" rarely tends to be a great strategy.

>>65098158
again I was and am pointing out that this is being presented as "a European problem" like they alone suffer from Trumps fuck up
not because they alone suffer from it or even because they suffer from it the most
all the points you've made apply to the US's asian allies and then some
furthermore the countries that will feel the rise of energy costs the most are the third and second world because energy imports is a much larger part of their GDP

I think that this focus on Europe in relation to the straights serves two purposes for the Trump administration.
the first is that it allows them to keep the narrative that Europe is weak and ungrateful going for their domestic audience
the second being that Europeans are the only ones with the ability to bail them out.
the Japanese and Koreans don't have the capacity to project into the conflict zone
and al those third and second world countries don't have much of a navy worth mentioning at all

so if the European bite, they are solving a part of the problems you've.
if they don't you can keep mocking them to distract your domestic audience from the problems you've caused. they'll even start going further and pin the blame for the whole affair on Europe

>>65098144
>He says that shit for PR
Well yes, when I say Monke man I more mean for the average Russian. I can imagine a fair few would bust a nut if he could pull it off and maybe that's enough to keep morale up. Very theoretical mind.

>Attacking stuff far away from the theater isn't a trivial move.
Of course, but the Russian fleet largely isn't in theater for Ukraine anyway. Reaching Hormuz is probably out of question for them but Atlantic/Med is within reason for their "relatively" competent sub fleet.

>They're fucking russians anon
>it's an unidentified submarine out of nowhere literally firing torpedos
On this point, if it's unidentified (e.g. not NATO) in the med who else would it likely be? (also iirc you can ID sub classes by their noise signature, but it is late and I am tired so might be wrong about how practical that is)
If it's in Hormuz then I suspect people would go "It's the Iranians!" and blast it which has "interesting" implications.

>If they're part of a fleet traveling
Well this is what I mean, lets say that a banan boat does manage to get near the fleet (or even shadows the fleet), would the fleet do anything? knowing that the Ukie ship is a valid and fair target for the Russians? what could they do even? drop some sonobuoys to go "we seeee youuuu" is best I can think of.

I agree it's a fairly unlikely scenario, it was more a thought exercise, if we are having Ukraine around NATO/EU forces on joint missions where does Russia stand with shooting at them and since it would compromise a NATO/EU mission, how would/could we react?

>>65098086
Sorry, how could I forget, America in it's infinite generosity has allowed Europe to buy weapons and send them to Ukraine. Hope they don't forget to say thank you.

The only reason they even provide intelligence sharing anymore is because the director of the CIA is pro-ukraine and is also trumps golfing buddy.

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>>65098237
Oooohhhh, sarcasm. How clever.

>>65098086
you probably meant Israel, not Ukraine, right?

>>65097961
American people deserve to be bombed.

>>65098382
As long as they're blue city shitholes.

The US is being trained on Ukraine anti-drone weapons. What's the tds-/pol/troon narrative for that?

>>65097961
The biggest problem is Zelensky, Ukrainians are doing a great job fighting this war but Zelensky's made a bunch of fuck-ups.

>>65098404
Such as? Didn't weak a suit? Please kill yourself

>>65098404
Ukraine is helping the arabs and getting money and defense collaboration agreements out of it. Its not about you burgers.

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>>65098126
sorry, had to spend $200 billion closing the strait of hormuz

>>65098450
>had to spend $200 billion closing the strait of israel
fixed

>>65098396
something something 6999 carriers sunk

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>>65098317
NTA
That post

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>>65098382
>american's deserve to get bombed
Fuckin' Ayyyyyy

>>65098086
You subhuman mongrels have delivered jack shit of your promised aid, if Israel asked for the same amount you would have tripled it. You AREN'T helping. Ukraine should be getting 30 billion USD a month bare fucking minimum. You faggots are perfectly happy to suck Israeli cock and piss away a billion a day on keeping your own shipping lanes closed in the Strait of Hormuz though.

>>65097977
Russia will fire on Ukraine almost anywhere. As to what happens if the uke ship detects one? They aren't waiting for clues to intent, they'll go absolutely apeshit immediately to not great effect.
Rolling the RPG dice in "Harpoon"
and factoring retardations...

Phase 1-Detection
Submarine: passively listening
Minesweepers are quiet but not invisible
In a busy strait, classification is harder but still doable
Minehunters: scanning seabed
Their sonar is like a magnifying glass on the ocean floor
It’s not great at finding a moving, quiet sub at distance

Outcome:
Sub likely detects first.

Phase 2-Positioning
Sub closes cautiously, staying:
below thermal layers (if present)
masked by shipping noise
Minehunters continue mission, possibly unaware

Unless there’s external intel (drones, aircraft, escorts), the Ukrainians are still blind.

Phase 3-Engagement decision

The submarine has options:

Option A: Torpedo ambush (most likely)
Fire wake-homing or wire-guided torpedo from standoff distance
Minesweeper has:
minimal countermeasures
limited speed

High probability of a hit on at least one vessel

Phase 4-Ukrainian response (if attacked)
Evasion:
limited speed hurts
Countermeasures:
maybe decoys (if fitted), but not robust
Fighting back:
essentially no meaningful ASW capability onboard

If it truly is:

2× minehunters
vs 1× modern diesel sub
no air cover, no escort
The submarine has a decisive advantage.

Rough “tabletop odds” (hand-wavy but honest):

Submarine wins cleanly: ~70–85%
One ship damaged, one escapes: ~10–20%
Minehunters detect/evade successfully: low single digits

>>65098086
Anon, 94% of all military and economical aid since feb 2022 to Ukraine came from the EU. You didn't do SHIEEEET

>>65098382
Okay, Hasan, time to go buy another $15k outfit and shock your dog or something.

>>65098086
Vance called ending Ukraine support the admin's proudest moment.

>>65098086
>Claiming America is not currently helping Ukraine is the most disingenuous bullshit of all time.

America ceased assistance to Ukraine in 2025. Any aid is now paid for by europeans and only delivered if there is not any need elsewere, like in the middle east.

>>65099475
>russians
>equipment is functional
>training is good
>taking independent action without central command oversight
lmao. lol, even.

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>>65099475
>>Option A: Torpedo ambush (most likely)
>>Fire wake-homing or wire-guided torpedo from standoff distance
>torpedo not immediately exploding and sinking the russian sub
>there was no russian sub in the area anyway filthy anglos
>any russian subs that were in the area returned to port under their own power
Never give up those beautiful dreams anon.

>>65099670
>>65099675

I handed AI the core rules pdfs and a pdf of the ship stats, so this is all according to Harpoon the naval combat rpg. I didn't copy over all the dice rolls and shit but it was interesting to read.
One use for AI would seriously to be making a game console that has a GM main personality and you just select the game rule set and upload characters to it.
First thing I would do is re-run Baldur's Gate as a better story.

>>65098441
Well, to list a few:
>He’s continuously made statements which made Ukraine look more desperate than it really is, which while an earnest effort to get more aid, just ended up making Ukraine look weaker than it was and made more people think it was a “lost cause” to send aid
>He’s likewise dragged out the war into a slow war of attrition, instead of just taking back Crimea and the Donbass right away. While this is a good strategy for draining Russia’s capability of ever invading them in the future by making the war take longer, it does help his enemies in the propaganda war, and it kept the fighting in Ukraine where the war ends up damaging Ukrainian territory. He should’ve pushed into the Donbass and Crimea instead, and then past them into Russia so that the fighting damages Russian territory.
>He has plenty of volunteers, and yet still chose to implement conscription and close the borders, but only for mostly men, in a weird attempt to appeal to far-right militaristic ‘traditional gender role’ sensibilities abroad, even though it did nothing for his military since he already had more than enough volunteers to cover all the roles needed.

>>65098391
No. You. you need to be bombed. Whatever shitty no-name town you live in in the middle of hicksville, it needs bombed. You need to have drones, Shaheds or whatever, flying over your home, and know the next one could be your house. You need to have your school, local hospital, or friend's home obliterated. You need to have your friends killed in a "double tap" missile strike aimed to kill the rescuers who've rushed to the aid of those people in your hospital or school. You need to see your neighbour, or the girl you always wanted to fuck, blown to pieces by a suicide drone, spattered across your street.

Because then, and only then, you might understand the horror of war, and what ignorant fucking assholes like you have inflicted on people living in similar towns you've never heard of in Ukraine, Lebanon, or Iran, because you sit smugly in your homes, and think that those people's lives don't matter because it doesn't happen to you. And that arrogance and ignorance is only matched by your utter inhumanity towards others. You deserve that. Because only then might you understand that wishing it on other people just because they're "blue cities" is utterly disgusting.

>>65099800
>Comparing Iran and Ukraine
Not at all remotely similar

>>65099811
I could've said Lebanon. I could've said Gaza. or Caracas, or Myanmar.

the conflicts are different. But the consequences for people on the ground are the same.
that guy's ignorance and arrogance are the problem. His complete lack of understanding of what people go through. That sickness of the mind, that they think that "blue cities" or "mudslimes" or "the jews" or whatever other idiotic dehumanizing phrases they trot out makes the suffering of people acceptable.

that's why he needs his home, his friends, his workplaces or infrastructure to be bombed, just like all those other nations. Because his sick, depraved arrogance is "its not happening to me, so I don't care.".

Because it happening to them is the only way for them to understand.

>>65099800
Maybe if you cityfags were less antagonistic people outside of your sour milk smelling dumps would care.

>>65099852
The suffering of people will always be acceptable, it is the way of the world. They were suffering before war ever came to them and they will suffer long after it leaves.

>>65099854
there are two types of people.

one, who experience, or see others suffering, and take actions to ensure no other person has to suffer the same.

and the other, are evil cunts, who go "its the way of the world" and think that others should continue to.

congratulations. you're in the category of absolute cunts.

>>65099857
I think we should kill you to reduce suffering if you want to inflict suffering on others.

>>65099857
And which actions have you taken to stop the Ukrainian war? Because nobody noticed.

>>65099800
>>65099852
Not a popular stance on /k/ or I guess in the current edgelord morality-free flavor of conservatism that has sadly become popular again, but thanks for being a voice for it anon however imperfectly. I do think you're a little high level/blase about justification and to what extent people are responsible for outcomes, but at the same time even if a place is really bad that doesn't diminish an iota the importance of planning, execution, morality and clarity of vision in outcomes.

Ukraine and Iran aren't the same, and a war with Iran might be justified. But that doesn't mean that ANY war with Iran would be justified, and that it could be run any way. Further, Trump and co have never bothered to even try to justify it. They never made any arguments, they never sought consent from the people or from Congress, they have not follow the law in letter or spirit. And they have committed great acts of unnecessary evil. That the Iranian government is evil too doesn't change things one bit, America is supposed to be and should always strive to be better if we fall short.

And of course that we've mostly dumped Ukraine and constantly dump on it makes the whole thing even more hollow.

>>65099857
I see you're the second one since I really doubt your doing ANYTHING to help those suffering

>>65099515
That’s an actual, genuine fucking lie disproven by the chart someone already posted.

>>65099864
nta but I personally donated $350, which I worked overtime a few weeks for. Based on estimated FPV drone prices that hopefully was worth .5-1.5 dead russian invaders. If everyone would do that it'd add up, russia doesn't have infinite men. 20 hours of extra work over a month isn't a huge burden vs what the Ukrainians are facing.
>Because nobody noticed.
I got a nice note, I'm sure not many noticed but then I again I'm just one random American, why would I expect to get much notice in a struggle involving tens of millions of people? But somebody did. Even if it was just other rando guy except this time in a trench somewhere and even if he's dead now it was still something.

>>65097724
B-but I thought that Europe was not going to get involved! /pol/ told me so!

>>65099766
>He’s likewise dragged out the war into a slow war of attrition, instead of just taking back Crimea and the Donbass right away.
While Vatniks are incompetent let's not pretend either of those is feasible until they're sufficiently attrited. Before being sacked, Surovikin at least had a passing moment of sobriety and decided to dig in to consolidate the southern front to a ludicrous degree.

>>65099800
Thanks being against these nihilistic, apathetic edgelords plaguing this site. This cavalier attitude to killing those anons don't like have always bugged me.

>>65099854
You fucking apathetic, nihilistic, lazy cunt.

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>>65099960
>disproven by the chart
I'm glad you 100% believe charts posted by anons. I have a chart for you

>>65098375
no one claims America isn't helping Israel though anon. are you stupid?

>>65100020
holy shit, is this real?

>>65099962
Oh, so you’re in favor of war. Okay cool, for a second I thought you were some dipshit who thought war was le evil or some shit.

>>65100008
You gonna stop war anon?

>>65100072
>for a second I thought you were some dipshit who thought war was le evil or some shit
NTAYRT but I'm such a dipshit.
Of course I also believe
>miseram pacem vel bello bene mutari

>>65100167
Agreed, that’s why we’re blowing the hell out of Iran

>>65099854
Banality of evil is a concept you could do with learning about.

"muh world is all suffering so more suffering doesn't matter woe is me"

>>65100072
>Being anti-war requires you to be a pacifist
Retard.

>>65100183
>Agreed, that’s why we’re blowing the hell out of Iran
That *should* be the reason we're blowing the fuck out of Iran but you and I both know it is not.

>>65100356
Being fully anti-war is retarded. To be fully anti-war would be to say that Ukraine should just give up to stop the war, since all wars are inherently 2 sided affairs, you cannot have a war without the inherent support of both sides. Thus to take any side in a war is to be pro-war.

>>65097752
IIRC Ukraine, Argentina, and Estonia have all nominally pledged US support, so they could jump straight into aiding beat down a Russian ally.

>>65100693
My point is that to be anti-war you must use force to prevent wars and that the whole "if you support killing aggressors you're pro war!" argument is absurd nonsense touted by people with very few braincells.

It is not pro-war to support self defence any more than it is pro-violence to support self defence. You can be okay with violence when absolutely necessary for your own survival and still be anti-violence. Pacifism is a retarded ideology afterall.

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>>65099962
based annon, every stacked zigger helps

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>>65099800
Uh oh, city slicker meltie!

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>>65100727
>Ukraine providing direct military aid to the US

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2.94 MB WEBM

>>65100003
>>65100008

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>>65100693
>Ukraine should just give up to stop the war

>>65101004
>Ukraine should just give up to stop the war

Its sometimes difficult to tell the difference between the russian propaganda-bots, the brainwashed bootlickers parroting their talking points, and the useful idiots who latch onto their comments sometimes.
Depressing how many people invariably loudly proclaim about "dont tread on me" and claim in event of invasion there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass, and yet think that others should just roll over and capitulate instantly.

>>65098126
Unironically America bombing Iran helps Ukraine at a base because Iran is a major ally and supplier of Russia. It probably helps Russia even more than China or LATAM does overall, especially in Africa I’d guess, when it comes to movement of material. Especially because Iran doesn’t threaten Russia the same way china does, basically owning swathes of their country from the ground up. Aid from china is basically paid in pounds of flesh where their relationship with Iran is more of an actual shared goal partnership: not to die and wage waagh/jihad against the west.

>>65101195
>Unironically America bombing Iran helps Ukraine
No, any rise to oil prices hurt Ukraine more than any small drain of resources from russia to Iran.

>>65101209
Not only that, but the faggot did what we all knew he would do and extended the sanctions relief, as well as lifting sanctions on Belarus. It's time to just admit that the demented pedophile is pro-Putin.

>>65101215
Also russia is the only country dodging any tariffs lol

The Zigs really aren't capable of being subtle when doing their job.

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>>65101215

>>65101222
>I know just the image from my /pol/ folder that will show him!!1
What a silly self own.

>>65101209
>gas station theory
Losing an ally like Iran is many times worse than the gain of increased gas prices, especially because the cost of their own operations increase as well, and they have more hoops to jump through than their counterparts.
It could be even harder, but euros, especially nordics, are subhuman pussies who basically do nothing else fat Russian ships cruise through their waters.
The problem is nato is dependent on Russian oil still (lol) and Iran is only bruised, so the loss isn’t as horrible as it could be. Still existentially frightening and operationally crippling but only that, since it lived.

>>65098115
Does the Ukrainian navy even exist in any ship form? I know the Marines are still around obviously

>>65101244
Drone ships, battletested.

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>>65101271
>Drone ships, battletested.
They blew up a Russian USV yesterday too.

>>65101244
The UK gave them refurbished minesweeper if I'm reading articles correctly. But they're obviously stuck in UK ports until the war ends or gets put on hold

>>65101171
>then Ukrainian men wouldn't have to die for their retarded fantasy of invading Russia and taking its land

Ah, is it the late shift in St Petersburg, or are you just an unbelievably idiotic parrot, repeating Russia's inversion of reality?

>>65099943
>we NEED to do COIN/Hearts and Minds again, by golly this time it'll work! The wogs will shape up and do maths.

>>65101304
>But they're obviously stuck in UK ports until the war ends or gets put on hold
Those are small enough to get to Ukraine via rivers.
The Rhine-Danube system gets them right to Odesa and allows a decent draft in the right season.

>>65101309
>noooo ukraine is le defenders and heroes! russia is lying!!! shut up!!!!!
ukraine wants to capture all land in the kherson, zaporozhia, donetsk, lugansk and crimea regions (de facto russian land for several years), wants to create a buffer zone on russian territory and has previously invaded the kursk and belgorod regions in an attempt to achieve these goals. so basically ukraine wants to conduct massive offensive operations that will cost a lot of ukrainian lives.

>>65101342
Defensively attrite until weakness and collapse was always the goal

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>>65097724
Wait the British and French are actually doing something now? Holy fuck, bullying them worked.

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>>65101232
>Iran is only bruised
Anon, their new gay Ayatolla is comatose in a hospital in the biggest gay-rape country in the world while their leadership is down to their 3rd-to-4th in line of succession. "Bruised" would be if their previous leader survived and wasn't a pile of hamburger rn. America's sword came low, swept up and now Iran is desperately learning how to put a tourniquet on their taint.

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>>65097752
>War Trump started
>May or may not have the USN
>Ukraine has given up on Trump
Thirdie or tranny? Call it.

>>65101355
Cleaning up the mess, very different to attacking another nation (that's willing to fight back)

>>65097961
Yeah the Ukrainians built those HIMARS and Bradleys and got all of that info on where Russian generals were from reading goat entrails and NOT the CIA and all of those rockets Trump sent were just an illusion bro. Oh wait no you're some seething impotent Eurocuck flustered that Vance made fun of your lack of military spending and purchase of Russian LNG.

>>65098086
Notice how all the responses are in similar reddit spaced format and written identically because it's all one asshurt vatnik D&Cing.

>>65098382
>>65099800
Post gun and outlet, brownoid.

>>65101362
Those are their people being bombed by the US, why aren't they joining on the side of their Muslim brothers?

>>65099854
>people should suffer because people have suffered
yeah

>>65097950
>Russian subs
The that move or the ones that don't?

>>65101342
1/10 you need to get better material dude. We don't want your SAARS to replace you after sending you off to the meat grinder, now do we?
>>65101331
There's no point in doing that now since Russia would lobby missiles their way almost immediately after they dock at Ukrainian ports. Its better to keep them out of the Black Sea for now

>>65101342
No, still not clear if you're the Russian troll farms or just a Useful Idiot.

Ukraine wants to liberate all land, not "capture". Land stolen by invading Russians and de facto Ukrainian territory, not Russian, since the collapse of the soviet union in 1991, and the independence of the state of Ukraine.

And while it may want a buffer zone, its from the Russians who are invading it.

and yes, Kursk and Belgorod have had incursions. That's what happens when an incompetent, corrupt oligarchy whose military has been asset-stripped for 30-odd years by Putin's boyars decides to attempt a farcical "3 day" military invasion and coup, which has now dragged on into its 4th year, and in between meat waves of the 1.3 million Russians killed for Putin's insane thirst for land, they left themselves exposed for counter-attacks which drew resources away from their continued rape and pillage of Ukraine's sovereign territory.
that claim is as idiotic as going "oh, look, its 1944, and the British and Americans are the evil aggressors, invading poor innocent Germany on its Normandy beaches!".


But little facts like the truth don't matter to Putin and his thugs, do they? In topsy-turvy land where Ukraine never existed and the glorious Soviet was only slightly inconvenienced by its collapse, and everything was great, Its the brave Russians who are defending themselves from the wicked attacking Ukrainian Nazis.

and if you believe that, you truly are a Useful Idiot.

>>65101353
that's why Ukraine launched a southern offensyiv in 2023, a belgorod offensyiv in 2023 and a kursk offensyiv in 2024 right?
>>65101432
if you take a statement of true information as bait then you need your head checked

>>65099800
And you deserve to have your entire country, history, people, and even your very genes razed into the ground. I want your final days wandering the irradiated hellscape of your shithole puking and shitting your guts out, feeling your hair and skin fall out and tasting iron as your gums begin to bleed. I want your last sight to be a Palestinian girl as she is slowly being skinned alive, the last Palestinian on earth, knowing that the rest of the world will do absolutely NOTHING to avenge. Even then this is too kind, your kind deserve to be rounded up, used as target practice, medical test subjects, chemical and weapons test subjects, living organ farms, lobotomized pregnancy surrogates, forced labor in the most hazardous and toxic environments possible, kept alive only on the most minimal water and carbohydrates and macro nutrients until you physically cannot move anymore, and then that's not enough. Your kind are beyond vermin, your own kindred won't take you in, that's how hated you all are. Jordan and Egypt sent troops.... to keep you OUT.

Rest in piss, you deserve worse.

>>65099943
>Ira-
Is legal and justified. Cope and seethe more. Look at the US military, they aren't deserting or refusing to fight, they're BUTCHERING Iran.
>con
Will do whatever Trump wants. Cope.

>>65101443
>de facto Ukrainian territory, not Russian
ESL or retarded? call it

>>65101452
Then you have my pity.
The fact you are so depraved as to imagine anyone deserves those shows an abject inhumanity that borders on the sociopathic. The fact that was your response shows you completely failed to understand or learn from reading that post.

I hope that some day, you develop a conscience and look back on your views with shame. But until that day, I forgive you.

>>65101475
>does it first
>tries guilt shaming (works against leftists 100%)
>all the while being completely oblivious
Definitely a third worlder, your very thought processes (built by your shit polluted genes) give you away.

>>65101443
>sure, everything you said is true, but have you considered that russia le bad and ukraine le good?
i'm sure this is a convincing argument if it's not you getting busified to participate in the next meatwave against russian positions.

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>And you deserve to have your entire country, history, people, and even your very genes razed into the ground. I want your final days wandering the irradiated hellscape of your shithole puking and shitting your guts out, feeling your hair and skin fall out and tasting iron as your gums begin to bleed. I want your last sight to be a Palestinian girl as she is slowly being skinned alive, the last Palestinian on earth, knowing that the rest of the world will do absolutely NOTHING to avenge. Even then this is too kind, your kind deserve to be rounded up, used as target practice, medical test subjects, chemical and weapons test subjects, living organ farms, lobotomized pregnancy surrogates, forced labor in the most hazardous and toxic environments possible, kept alive only on the most minimal water and carbohydrates and macro nutrients until you physically cannot move anymore, and then that's not enough. Your kind are beyond vermin, your own kindred won't take you in, that's how hated you all are. Jordan and Egypt sent troops.... to keep you OUT.

>Rest in piss, you deserve worse.

>>65101491
does kind of feel like the equivalent of "What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals" Gorilla warfare copypasta, doesn't it?

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>>65101491
Seethe brownoid. You lost.

>>65101447
Get that flacid AIDS riddled cock out of your throat anon. You spewing blatant Russian propaganda is part of the reason why you're so miserable and alone. Maybe the SAAR next door will let you cup his balls if you go outside

>>65101462
>Is legal and justified
lol no. Congress has exclusive war making power. They don't have to call it a "war", they can call it an AUMF, but they have to authorize it. So it's not legal. And as for whether it's justified, Trump admin never bothered to even try. Hence why the war is fantastically unpopular day 1, unlike previous wars where at least initially the public was onboard and Congress authorized it.
>Will do whatever Trump wants. Cope.
Sure, as long as you cope with the mid-terms and Democrats obliterating the GOP and refusing to pass a single extra penny.

>>65101529
Nice fanfiction. Cope.

>>65101509
sorry officer, I forgot that not memoryholing the offensyivs is a violation of the Combating Russian Aggression Propaganda act

>>65101529
>Sure, as long as you cope with the mid-terms and Democrats obliterating the GOP and refusing to pass a single extra penny.
Kamala Harris literally called Iran America's Greatest Adversary in a 60 Minutes Interview back in 2024, she called Iran a destabilizing force in the Middle East, she said that Iran has American blood on their hands, and she said that one of her biggest priorities is to ensure that Iran does not build nuclear weaponry and I quote ""I fully support President (Joe) Biden's order for the U.S. military to shoot down Iranian missiles targeting Israel"

All this Trump Derangement Syndrome regarding the war is 100 percent political theater. Even if Democrats win back the house and senate during the mid-terms, it's not going to impact operations in the Middle East, which in reality has bipartisan support. Democrats are just going to use Trump as a scapegoat at best

>>65101531
>constitution
>fanfiction
Ah, sorry didn't realize you were brown. Carry on with the projection.
>>65101566
>this denial
If you're this desperate there isn't really anything I can say to convince you. We'll just have to wait for it to play out.

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>>65101585
>denial
My guy, I LITERALLY cited what Vice President and Democratic Presidential Candidate Kamala Harris said to back up my claims, there's nothing to deny, both parties have been calling for increased military involvement in Iran for awhile now. And I know information moves fast nowadays but while Biden did do more to support Ukraine than Trump did, even he was famously cagey about direct involvement.
Damn Poe's Law is a real bitch

>>65101593
The difference is, Trump and his DUI hires pulled a Leeroy Jenkins the moment Bibi went "ay, Donnie, my main mensh, I need to distract these mamzerim from throwing me in the clink, would you be so kind as to do a funny?"

The Dems would've been much more cautious regarding launching themselves into fresh military adventurism, especially with Afghanistan being seen as 'their' fuckup (though, amusingly, it was yet another of Trump's big beautiful deals from late 2020).

>>65101857
>especially with Afghanistan being seen as 'their' fuckup (though, amusingly, it was yet another of Trump's big beautiful deals from late 2020).
Aaaaand into the trash your opinion goes. You just couldnt help yourself, you almost sounded reasonable, but right at the end the mask slipped and the hyper partisan drivel ran down your chin.

>>65101486
You retarded?