Sup /k/. I just want to discuss ammo & logistics in real world combat. I've always thought about ammo. How much can a man carry, how much gets used, how do you resupply in a combat zone? Every time I watch a film or play a video game and I see someone sending hundreds of rounds down range I am struck with the thought: How do they resupply and how often do they need to do so?So can we discuss this topic? How much ammo are first world troopers lugging around? How much actually gets used in a firefight? How do they resupply when under fire in a hotzone? What is the future of combat zone logistics? Bigdawg style drones lugging thousands of rounds of extra ammo with a squad? Little quad-copter drones dropping magazines to squads in the middle of a firefight? What happens when a group of soldiers runs out of ammo? Does that even happen?
>>65102863>How much ammo are first world troopers lugging aroundTheir doctrinal load (typically 7 rifle mags, 3-5 LMG boxes, 1500-2000 GPMG rounds, 18-36 40mm grenades, 1-4 hand nades) plus some more depending on the nature of the mission. Extra machinegun ammo in forests/jungle, extra grenades in cities, traditionally as many dumb rockets like AT4s and LAWs as physically possible although drones are partially replacing this.This is enough for one attack and one defense.Each level of command upwards above platoon or company will carry one resupply, so the minimum resupply will be three doses. The supply troops carry it forwards and hand if off to the company level which circulates men through the ammo drop. This is the pre Ukraine war meta however.The tentative modern meta outside Ukraine is using heavy drones like the C100 to T150 size [10-20lb to 150lb] to save the supply troops from coming forward to the company and instead deliver directly to the squads.>What happens when a group of soldiers runs out of ammo? Does that even happen?They die, because you have to spend ammo to 'stay alive' in traditional small arms combat. So instead of running out they try to conserve ammo by shooting less and less and retreating, which converts the problem from autodeath to a massive disadvantage.
>>65102901Hits it pretty spot on. Resupply can vary from as simply taking preloaded mags from your pack to swap with empty mags all the way up to returning to a fortified base where you can get more field rations. https://youtu.be/XPahdicCr4wIs old but goes in depth about what you can do with ammo when its delivered to you.
For guerilla operations, you try pre-stage ammo caches in areas where you're likely to need them. Not that you're going to resupply during a firefight, but you can resupply without going all the way back to your base.
https://www.army.mil/article/128843/picatinny_speed_bag_resupplies_soldiers_with_less_equipment_damage>"The current solution is to fill body bags or duffle bags with resupply items, fly it in low with a helicopter--low as they can--and kick it out the door," explained Bob Forrester, an ARDEC engineer, at Picatinny Arsenal, N.J."Unfortunately, using this method, many items on the bottom of the bags are destroyed. There is upwards of 40 percent or 50 percent of the resupplies that are not useable. So while the Soldiers get some of the vital stuff they needed -- food, water, ammo -- a lot of the stuff is damaged."The Enhanced Speed Bag system was designed to standardize the resupply procedure. The system consists of a hands free linear brake, rope and padded bag. When the bag is deployed the brake applies friction to the rope orienting the bag with the padded base down."The bag lands padded side down because the rope slows it down just enough to keep it oriented. That way you only have to pad one side of the bag, you don't have to encase it in massive padding," Forrester said.
>>65103405Parachute is unknown technology
>>65103852parachutes need time to deploy in order to maximize dragnot a whole lot of time if you're going in as low as possible
>>65103405Thats the dumbest thing I have read today.
>>65103405>If we have a standardized way to deliver supplies that aren't damaged, then you can send troops on missions with less to carry. So instead of an emergency resupply this would be a purposeful resupply -- daily drops of food, daily drops of water.This seems like an awful idea. Sure its lighter but makes them more dependant on things going perfect. If you carry all the food you need you will have it. If you get your MRE delivered daily you could easily start to miss meals in high tempo. Emergency supplies should stay just that, things you didnt plan for but need right now.
So these things right now>Can carry 300 lbs>All terrain mostlyInstead of legs, give them wheels on longish mounts with fully adjustable suspension. Instead of being connected to a network. Have them "trained" like a dog. Commands like sit, heel, ect ect with remote control backup by a squad member for complex maneuvers. I'm not too sure how loud they'd be or how good the battery life would be now. The OG Big dogs were gas powered and loud as shit, but current EVs are actually very quiet. I envision squads having one of theses attached solely for being a pack mule and maybe.
>>65103900It makes sense if you think that a war in the future might have parallels with Ukraine, the massive undefined frontline with constant drone patrols makes on-foot or vehicular resupply risky. That’s not even going into the incredibly long time between rotations, sometimes it’s more than a month.
>>65102863The answer is always the same...it depends. The load of men in combat depends on the mission, the unit, the enemy, the terrain, and the amount of support you have. If you're a small unit humping far away from any kind of support, you're going to go heavy, because you're not going to get support any time soon. If you're operating as a platoon or company, you might go lighter because theirs more hands to share the load, and you might have access to better support. If you're a heavy unit operating combat vehicles, then you're taking everything and the kitchen sink and strapping it on the vehicle.Resupply is accomplished by everything from doing runs with empty rucksacks to hump the shit back to the boys, to helo and fixed wing logistics packages kicked out of a bird, to vehicle resupply in random locations. Pack animals are still a viable means of resupply.Not much has really changed over the years, as there's still parts of the world that have no infrastructure, and without air assets, you're basically operating the same way Alexander did over 2 millennia ago.
>>65104652
This is an excerpt from 'With the Old Breed at Peleliu and Okinawa'>Determined from experience, a unit of fire was the amount of ammunition that would last,on average, for one day of heavy fighting. A unit of fire for the M1 rifle was 100 rounds;for the carbine, 45 rounds; for the .45 caliber pistol, 14 rounds; for the light machine gun,1,500 rounds; and for the 60mm mortar, 100 rounds.
>>65104853oops copy and paste fail
>>65104652>not much has changed>still do what Alexander didYeah, except the whole air assault/air cav idea of moving infantry instead of supplies on and off the field. Dumbass. Go back to school, kid. Your grandma is the only person on the planet who thinks you're noise qualifies as intelligence.
>how much can you carry?A lot. 7x30rnd magazines as a minimum. 2,000 rounds for your machine guns.>how much do you shootAmmo is cheap, lives are expensive. You shoot at much as needed to supress the enemy so they aren't shooting at you and your platoon.>how to resupply?A truck brings more to you.>what about Ukraine? A robot delivery cart drives food, water and ammo to near your foxhole.>what about drones?They are amazing for recon and and precision strikes. Men are more expensive than drones. Drones are ammunition to be used.
Some more to add on to my earlier post>>65103405From 2011 in Afghanistan:https://web.archive.org/web/20190415114938/https://www.michaelyon-online.com/body-bags-a-speedballs.htm>Fighting units often pre-package speedballs. Body bags are a wrapper of choice because they are tough and easy to hand-carry. Units sometimes number or code the packages so when a commander calls from the field, he can simply say, “I need a #1, and three #2s.” The crew grabs the numbered speedballs and loads them into a helicopter. Sometimes helicopters don’t bother landing for a delivery. They just hover and toss the packages.
>>65105017Yeah, except the whole "not having assets available for air assault/air cav" because you're operating deep in the Hindu Kush and the fucking aircraft can't deal with the altitudes. You seething dumbass.
>>65102863>How much ammo are first world troopers lugging around?by the book, ~200 rounds of rifle ammo, another ~100-200 rounds of SAW ammo, a couple of M203 rounds, and an antitank LAW-type round or M141 BDM>How do they resupply when under fire in a hotzone?they're supposed to have prepared a resupply route in defiladein a really hot situation they break contact>What is the future of combat zone logistics? Bigdawg style drones lugging thousands of rounds of extra ammo with a squad?yesand motorised wheelbarrows, believe it or not>Little quad-copter drones dropping magazines to squads in the middle of a firefight?more like large Baba Yaga types dropping of hundreds of rounds at a time>What happens when a group of soldiers runs out of ammo? military funerals and tabloid articles>>65104319already being done, picrelproblem is battery lifespan and charging times, and spares
>>65106735Genius level resupply efficiency. Body bags being sent full of supplies while casualty causing events are ongoing.No one does logistics like we do.
>>65108051yes, faggot, because everyone else would just run out of water and fucking DIE
>>65108050This is basically what tom Clancy envisioned in the 00s with ghost recon. Little drone full of supplies. All you need now is a auto cannon and some armor and you'd have it.
>>65108055I wonder if bodybags are waterproof? It'd make one hell of a duffle bag for the bed of my truck.
>>65108058nobody likes to say it, but the future of drone-augmented infantry squads is going to be basically Shadowrun Riggers
>>65108078That's cool I love riggers
>>65108060>if bodybags are waterproofThey should be, otherwise spoiled guts will drip everywhere. Not all bodybags are the same, the cheap ones are basically just a thin trashbag. Do your research.
