Why do many Air Forces like Denmark, Norway and Finland spend a lot on fighter jets, but never invest in an AWAC?Isn’t the air to air meta right now to use AWACs actively with downlink to the fighter jets who fly with radar off, then fire max range A2A missiles?Or is it because Russia is so weak that they don’t think air to air is ever going to happen? But then why buy fighters to begin with?
>>65103561sweden provides AWACS
>>65103561NATO, the actual organization as an independent body, operates a fleet of AWACS that they are all supposed to share and use together. Most Euro armies just get the bare minimum that they need for minor tasks and the rest they outsource to whoever wants to bother, in most cases its the US but during the cold war they also freeloaded on Germany and the UK a lot. France was always bitching about it.
Denmark bought AWACs from Sweden. Also besides being all NATO the Nordic countries have their own military agreements together and collaborate on sharing capabilities. The commands of each country also cooperate in day to day operations sharing intel and coordinating responses to airspace threats.
>>65103561NATO has task/capacity division allowing states to focus on those things they have a comparative advantage atfor instance the Baltic states don't have air forces or much of a navy. So they get to spend more on their land forces whom due to being right there on the border with russia provide a comparative advantage with say Portugal.Part of that strategy was that the US and NATO would provide AWACs and aerial refueling. capacities that would be to expensive to develop and maintain for those smaller countries.on the flip side that means that since they have more fighters there's less of a need for US fighters.the small countries get to have a air force and can borrow a capacity when needed.the US can use those capacities in other theaters when they are needed.the member states are better off and the alliance is better off.
>>65103561NORDEFCO
https://awacs.nato.int/NATO AWACS has even its own website.
>>65103762>the small countries get to have a air force and can borrow a capacity when needed.And btw, small countries, you can buy fighters from us as part of the deal!
>>65103885Thanks Sweden, its great you have our backs.
>>65103561>Or is it because Russia is so weak that they don’t think air to air is ever going to happen?its because Russia is so strong they dont even bother with the token investment
>>65103915Isn't that the drone which on its first combat deployment completely lost control and had to be shot down only for the debris to land in ukie territory anyways?
>>65103695>France was always bitching about it.When is this not true?
AWACS is really expensive, and not relevant unless you are attacking beyond the radar horizon of ground based radars. For some context, Finnish hornets didn't have A2G ordnance until 2014 or so
>>65103885Not falling for it, Björn
>>65103561Italain AWACS also regularly operates over the Baltic.
>>65103943Never, but it must always, at all times be emphasized that France is bitching about something.
Nato capabilities like the e3 sentry could basically cover the entire continent. The wedgetail is supposed to cover even more but in their infinite wisdom the us military think that using meme tech like satellites for awacs is a better option so other countries are on the fence about it too due to cost if the us backs out. Denmark realistically doesnt need awacs because theyre so small and covered by german, French and Swedish capabilities. Finland might look into it because now that they're in nato they have the longest border against russia for nato but they could rely on the swedes for that since they're next door
>>65103720AFAIK Denmark never actually bought any awac from Saab the Swedes tried selling them but Denmark hasn’t said yes
>>65103561>we can't just sell them a business jet with a fuckhuge radar bolted on top>let's put extra bumps and fins all over it
>>65104128Danish airspace is covered by sweden anyways. Went to a field visit at saab eds and they have a testing area in western sweden where they track civilian planes with both global eye and gripen radars in a bay. So sometimes if the danish f16s were flying they could get an alert they were locked on by an unknown radar but there's nothing in the air to target. So saab would get angry phone calls from the Danish air force about if they're using their radars. Yes. OK.
>>65104147Danes use F35’s not F16’sWould be interesting to know whether the GlobalEye can even see them. The Gripen onboard radar for sure can’t see shit.Also Danes need to patrol Greenland and the Faroe Islands airspace as it’s all part of the Kingdon of Denmark
>>65103934>Isn't that the drone which on its first combat deployment completely lost control and had to be shot down only for the debris to land in ukie territory anyways?drunk Russian was beating its wife over nato-skies™ completely un-beknownst to nato untill the hoeminding got out of control and he had to put her down like a rabid dog infront of the whole village
>>65104136its like saabs and other euro cars that come with exxcessive accessories like mini-windshield wiper blades for the headlights and subscription heated seats and shit like that
>>65104123I'd be surprised if Congress doesn't force them to actually buy airframes. They clearly don't seem to buy the whole "we'll figure it out" plan from the DoD. I don't think anyone has even demonstrated a prototype space AEWC and the E-3 fleet is in desperate shape.
>>65104167This was like 10 years ago. And yes the erieye and globaleye as well as the new gripen E can find them or they just use bistatic radars that completely fucks up their radar cross section compared to a single radar
>>65103695the NATO E-3s are also registered to luxembourg. to help them feel like part of the team, i guess.
>>65103915Why can't the very strong and scary Russia overwhelm Ukraine?
>>65104755>Why can't the very strong and scary Russia overwhelm ukraine?incompetence probably..???the better question would be why a 40+nation coalition leveraging $23trillion dollars in combined GDP couldnt bum-rush a single drunk, impoverished asiatic larping former super-power army of multiple-felon convict penal battalions armed with shovels driving T-62s and 250cc dirtbikes in forlorn frontal assaults under FPV drone saturation...is my guess.its a real conundrum how both of these retards got into the position they are in 4 years into the 48hr brunch in keev.
>>65103561>FinlandDunno about others, but Finland operates on assumption that the enemy would have air superiority and coverage over most of the country. That's why planes must be able to operate out of concealed highway bases instead of airfields, or alternatively from all the way from Sweden, though them allowing foreign air force to operate from their country was always considered risky assumption regardless of what alliances or public promises there was beforehand. Under that assumption AWAC becomes just an expensive target for the enemy, and relying on land-based detection is preferred.
>>65103561The nordic air forces are legacy airforces which are primarily bought "because this is what we always have done". They will not amount to much in any kind of actual war because they can basically only fire AAMs and then not much else. SEAD? Tactical airstrikes? Stand off attacks? Best we can do is anti ship missiles. Muntions are rare, most are imported and are basically for show as the inventory depth is microscopic. The general consensus is that USAF will carry any air war and we locals will only need to show up. Thats why we are in NATO.
>>65107716>SEAD? Tactical airstrikes? Stand off attacks? Best we can do is anti ship missiles.>Please ignore the JASSM,JSM,GBU's and JDAMS all over the place and the F-35 fleets to carry and launch them
>>65103561Depends a lot on what you are designing your force for, if you are focused on defence and don't want to attack you can use ground based radar.
Desu for every 8 fighter jets there needs to be an AWACS and two air tankers supporting them
>>65107751>>Please ignore the JASSM,JSM,GBU's and JDAMS all over the place and the F-35 fleets to carry and launch themThats what I am talking about when I said "imported muntions". Now focus on the other thing I wrote about muntions being "rare". The nordic air forces are purely symbolic. They will be active for a couple of days, then its going to be 100% USAF. Thats the assumption any way. There is no plan B in case USAF does not show up.
>>65107823The plan B is EU article 42.
>>65107825>The plan B is EU article 42.The problem here is that the entire EUs plan A is USAF. The situation in other euro airforces are not much better. There are several EU countries that do not have any kind of air force or air defense beyond manpads. So this article 42 is nothing but a bunch of bums promising each other aid.
>>65107836Anon what country do you think poses a major threat to the EU? The one stuck in Ukraine?The EU has slacked with defence for a long time and if Russia was the USSR they could be in real trouble but Russia isn't the USSR it's a dying kleptocracy.
>>65107823>JSM>Imported
>>65107836I love how confidently yanks talk shit that's ignorant, wrong and self-aggrandizing at the same time.
>>65107716>we locals>we
The current meta is AWAC’s won’t last long enough in combat against near peer enemy to make any difference.
>>65107859Missiles are getting longer range but they aren't long enough for a AAM to reach an AWACS yet.
>>65106597>le why is HATO not attacking pidorlandia>le HATO is attacking pidorlandiachoose one and only one pidor retard?
>>65103955Cmooon just a couple planes just a LITEN bit of firepower it'l be good i promise
>>65104123>Denmark realistically doesnt need awacs because theyre so small and covered by ger>>65104147>Danish airspace is covered by sweden anyways.the danes are supposed to defend greenland... shit like that is why they will lose it eventually. anyone can just land on greenland and claim it. the danes are so weak they cant do anything about it.
>>65107838russia literally bought themselves the german chancellor, the austrian chancellor and the hungarian president. the slovakian prime minister also seems to be a friend of putin. so the russians dont need to win on the battlefield, they can just buy the politicians with their oil and gas money.
