What was mountain pattern armor? Why was so ubiquitous in paintings and status throughout east asia while there are no surviving examples of It?:https://youtu.be/Jcl2DkxaUNI?t=15https://youtu.be/12STGegUUMo
It could've been a type of mail armor
>>65106068buy an ad
It could have been hexagonal shaped mail armor
Implessive
>>65106068Because outside of Europe, its unusual to have surviving examples of anything. The majority of western chain mail that wasn't maintained is either rusted solid or was pulled out of bogs that prevented oxidization; and that would be an even bigger issue in a part of the world that gets yearly monsoons.
>>65106248it's exactly what it looks like, small tiles of soft iron wired togetherthe japs used the same thing but theirs are square
>>65106288yes but nohammered pieces, very much like caltrops, not cut and bent sheet metal which was not a thing at the time
>>65107728>it's exactly what it looks like, small tiles of soft iron wired togetherthe japs used the same thing but theirs are squareSource? What did they call It?
>>65107746あちらと同じだけど、こっちは四角い
>>65107746>>65107728>>65107748
>>65106068Didn't they try to reproduce it and find that it doesn't protect against arrows at all?
>>65107758Nobody knows for certain how the pattern is truly made since there are no surviving examples of It. Some think It's a type of hexagonal mail:>>65106276 Others think there's mail rings connecting them from behind, but there are also others who literally nail the plates onto the fabric which would make It more similar to somekind of brigandine.The "test" was just one type made by some dude and shot It with target arrows without specifying the draw weight, distance shot, and how the pattern was made, was It just friction fit like most of the cosplay replicas or were they bounded together with lacing or mail rings
>>65107772>>65107758I'd like to see the riveted version tested, I'd bet It would work much better than those "friction" fit plates used by most reenactors since It's way cheaper and easier to make
>>65107746>sourcemy unwashed hairy ass, also actual armors that I saw mostly in museumsthis is not that, it's much more modern armor kote but the plates are shaped to suggest the earlier hammered pieces because japs are trad af
>>65107772mail is not supposed to protect against pointy things anyway, its role is to guard against slashesthe entirety of asia fought with slashing weapons, they even invented slashing spears because they were not happy just having the pointy bit
>>65107746hon kozane
>>65107783Retard
>>65106248>a type of mail armorThis, its also gaining support in Chinese armour circles. For many tried making these >>65106261They found out it sucks bad. So its either >A Type of Chain Mail>B Surface covering for the actual protection below>C A type of "Formal Wear", for Courts, Parades
>>65107785>mail is not supposed to protect against pointy things anywaynot asiatic butted garbage anyway
>>65108056no u
>>65108094game of thrones isn't historically accurate, rapechink. how many times do you need to be told this?
>>65108100not even proper riveted 1 in 6 double-ply western stuff, sorry to saythat estoc or rondel won't even feel it going in
>>65108108>not even proper riveted 1 in 6 double-ply western stuffdelusional beyond any reason. a basic riveted mail is nigh impossible to defeat with human power and any non-bodkin arrows.sorry your armor is utter shite, asiatic subhuman.
>>65108119asiatic armors are indeed shit against thrusting weaponshowever western maille is not much better, which is why ultimately everyone who could afford it switched to full plateanyway I found a pic that is more relevant to the discussion
>>65108119https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iU3q23jGX0
>>65108125>however western maille is not much betterit is, by all historical accounts it was perfectly adequate and sufficient against most threats>which is why ultimately everyone who could afford it switched to full platemunitions plate was cheaper to make than mail.
>>65108128>full bodyweight stab against it laying flat on a hard surface with no givereminder that todd exclusively makes shit videos like this because a clip of him failing to defeat mail for 10 minutes won't get any views and won't help him sell his knives.
>>65108145>against most threatsthat weren't purpose designed stabbing implements, yepand even then, during the full-mail era you see people doubling it up on their necks and heads
>>65108156reminder that you can test this in your own kitchen if you own like 5 square inches of mail
>>65108159>that weren't purpose designed stabbing implementsare cavalry lances purpose designed stabbing implements or not? because we have historical accounts of mail withstanding these strikes.
>>65108067Too addon >Hexagon shape Chain linkMore explanation.>D A type of hardening Laminar plate, which created "Mountain" like surface, kinda like the Hamon of a Katana >E Its basically just a Coat of plates the Mountain pattern is just the drawings on the cloth.
>>65108181may I remind you that jousting lances were not pointy?
>>65108182you just refuse to believe they're just little chunks of ironwhy?
>>65108185>jousting lanceswho said about jousting? those accounts are from combat to the death.regardless, early tournaments used sharp lances and dull jousting lance wasn't invented until almost a century later.
>>65108164reminder that no matter where you test it if your test conditions are asinine bullshit then your tests will be as well
>>65108182Damnit wrong pic. >Pic relatedFor explaining what I meant for point E
>>65108190>those accounts are from combat to the death.I am sure you can post some
>>65108197that is very stupid, theater armorwhy are you so Chinese?!
>>65108194remember that you're full of shit
>>65108190>muh accounts
>>65108199>He bent sideways so much that his head reached his stirrup, his shield and lance fell off his hand, and his helmet off his head...he then resumed his position, erect in the saddle. Having had linked mail under his tunic, my lance did not wound him.crusade-era memoirs of Usamah ibn Munquidh who has multiple other accounts like that.>Some of our men saw him (they were Scyths from the Taurus district, and not more than four at that) and attacked him with lances, driving in on both flanks, but the iron shafts proved ineffective... Meanwhile he budged in neither direction, for as they pushed him with equal force this way and that, he remained poised and balanced in the middle. To Isaac this seemed a favourable omen, when attacks from right and left both failed to dislodge him..from Michael Psellos' Chronographia
>>65108208>>65108210>hurr durr it wasn't totally impenetrable therefore it's literally wet tissue paperwhat's your opinion on the asian women's preference of white cock compared to the tootpicks of asiatic manlets?
>>65108212>my lance did not wound himbecause he ducked under it. then the stupid muslim blamed the chain mail (which yes would have deflected a glancing blow maybe 50% of the time all the time)>scythians bring shitty hunting spears to warmfw
>>65108217very favorable, even auspiciouscan't say much good about those buck teeth though, I'd rather have a handy from one of them than a bj
>>65108201>Theater ArmourNope its actual Armour.https://collections.discovernewfields.org/art/artwork/27117Just zoom into the pics and see the patterns.
>>65108220>those "purpose designed stabbing implements" weren't purpose designed enough or used correctly, that's why the armor that performed well against them is actually inadequatecool goalposts bro>because he ducked under itdid his other account of knocking a guy out of a saddle with his lance without penetrating mail also a glancing blow that's also a fluke?
>>65108232yeaha good heavy sword wielded by a good swordsman can even slice through mail
>>65108234>slice>through maili really hope you're just pretending to be retarded at this point
>>65108239I mean who would draw such a thing if they had never seen it happenwhat I posted is in an actual 12th century manuscript
>>65108241>who would draw such a thingan artist that doesn't give a shit because he's never seen combat, duhthere's not a single account of riveted mail being cut through in existence, and some whimsical drawings are not that in the slightest.
>>65108243it was a really, really common thing, combatpretty much everyone who made it to adulthood would have at least seen some, brigandage, raids, harries, pogroms, wars, tourneys, judicial duels, extralegal duels, motherfuckers just cutting each other for no reason etc etc
There was no need to cut through the chainmail with a sword or spear; any impact force exceeding what the armor and undergarments could absorb would have caused serious bruises and fractures.
>>65108239>>65108241>>65108243Has anyone actually of a high level of athletics tried to hack through chain armor on a realistic target before or is it only estrogenated British dance teachers with literally half the swing speed of a professional who try these experiments and determine they're "impossible"?
>>65108067The problem with the "its chainmail" theory is that Chang art & statuary that DO depict chainmail do not do the mountain pattern thing.In the Wu Jing Zong Yao military manual both the Mountainigger Armor & a Chainmail hauberk are both depicted and they have super different styles.
>>65106068I think it's a stylised artistic depiction of a kind of maille or even lamellar.To my knowledge it's only on "unrealistic" statues or paintings of people or deities that have magical abilities.There's no conclusive explanation to be found, but what convinces me it's something very mundane- common to other cultures -is it seems physically impossible as armour if made as depicted.>>65110576There's literally a video of an English guy in this thread piercing maille with only moderate effort. There's no point trying to convince them with words, they could see you do it yourself and still say it was adulterated or vaxxed or chinesium or something.
>>65110576>Has anyone actually of a high level of athletics tried to hack through chain armor on a realistic target beforethere's a video of a big guy taking a full swing with a dane axe at it and not even scratching it. you'd need a hydraulic press to do this and it'd literally crush the body underneath before any mail made out of the shittiest potmetal would fail.
>>65108259>it was a really, really common thing, combatcare to post a single mention of it then instead of some shitty schematic scribbles? a single one.
>>65110752why did you fall back on your shitty video when it's already been exposed as a bogus test? how about you actually try to convince anyone with something that's not baseless and disingenous first instead of just falling on blatant lies and repeating them over and over?
>>65108234There's all sorts of silly shit in the margins of illuminated books of the era, don't pay them too much attention for factual validity
>>65108128As expected, mail easily countered by small pointy stabbing things.Regardless of whether the armor is Asiatic or European, history clearly shows development towards plate armor, likely because of this exact issue.Of course it doesn't mean mail is bad, just that penetrating weapons are its key weakness.
>>65110593This picture could just as easily be scale armor. Are there any that definitively show mail?
>>65111565>history clearly shows development towards plate armorin Europe. elsewhere mail took over other armor when it was introduced>likely because of this exact issue.source: your ragged assholeawful samefagging btw, very low effort
>>65111565did mom find the piss drawer?
>>65110897>he doesn't know about the centaur/snail warShiggidydiggidydo
>>65111565Mail was the most popular type of armor in practically every place and time where it had been invented and steel prong crossbows were not common.
>>65108259>>65108234>>65108210>>65108208I can pull up an anime clip of a guy catching a bullet or rebounding it off a coin or something to trickshot a guy. That doesn't mean that it happened. Monks and artists in the Middle Ages were no more likely to be experts than ones today.
>>65107780that actually seems extrempely plausible. riveted to some leather or heavy fabri backing for comfort against the skin and some extra shock protection
>>65112726Might as well cast the thing if you're making a rigid plate.
>>65112747leather or canvas are flexible not rigid especially if its thin enough
>>65111600The label on the side literally says "chain mesh armor" which was how Maille was called in old China.
>>65112774Those interlocking metal things riveted to the leather are going to make it rigid if they're stout enough to give any protection.
>>65111600also to answer your question: from the same book.
>>65112901What does it call this type?
Can someone give me a QRD on this "people are making fake videos to falsely claim maille can be penetrated" conspiracy theory?Is this something anyone's seen before? Or is it literally just 1 schizo on /k/?
>>65108125Kozane is made to be very resistant to stabbing attacks like arrows and spears, so in terms of defense this was well above mail and a step above brigatines. The problem is that its shit against firearms hence why tokugawa era curiasses would sometimes integrate a European proofed breast plate
I sort of suspect that it was an artistic styalization, because the straight edges could be chiselled, and drawn larger without looking stupid.As indeed, none seems to exist well the reason may be that it never existed, it was just how the Chinese drew it. There are many examples in Greek art of stylised, symbolic or pictographic depictions, for example giving all bronze spear heads the same shape so people knew they were bronze, or putting a pattern on cloth so viewers wouldn't confuse it for lamelar.
>>65113798>lamellar>better than mail>ever comparable to brigantinepick one, lmao
>>65107731Romans stamped metal rings out of rolled sheet for their mail centuries before this mountain armor started showing up, so it absolutely is well within the capabilities of the time.
>>65114323So let me guess, youre just pretending to be retarded?
