do attack/scouting helicopters have a future on the battlefield now that drones are basically everywhere??
>>65114230Drone killing platforms
>>65114230Attack will probably hang around to escort transports for awhile but manned scouts are doomed.
>>65114230Manned scouts with drones > just drones
>>65114232and drone finding platforms.
>>65114230Dropping off operators on skyscrapers
Flying SHORAD platformsFlying ATGM launchers
>>65114230Ugv air assault.
>>65114230Put the drones on the helicoptersAttack helicopter that fires 24+ semi-autonomous direct attack drones, ATGM guided by drones that can overcome countermeasuresScout helicopter that has parasite drones that scout ahead and relay past jamming and EW cover
>>65114456that sounds like an awful lot of workare there any drone guided ATGM even available out there??
>>65114484MQ-9 reapers
>>65114484Any laser beamrider can be guided by a drone that has a laser
>>65114230In broken arrow they are pretty good yes
>>65114325SoonTM
>>65114230The DoD seems to think not given that they cancelled FARA. Then again, they've been pretty cancel crazy in general so maybe that isn't the best indicator.
>>65115449It got canceled when the defiant wasn't selected. Tilt rotors make garbage gunships.
>>65115516There was never a tiltrotor in the running for FARA. Bell's entry was like a mini Commanche, and Sikorsky's was a compound helicopter like the Defiant
>>65114230Attack helicopters are only improved by drone spotters, now you can wipe out armored columns and walk cannon fire onto target from beyond the horizon. Scout helicopters have been utterly irrelevant in conventional roles for decades now, them being irrelevant is why the Comanche was cancelled. They stick around for small team SOF insertions, but you don't need very many to do that, like there are less than 50 little birds in the whole military across all the branches.
>>65114230A good helo pilot should still be able to outfight your average cardboard shitglider and wrestle control of the skies versus them.
>>65116179>flies into your engine intake
Large, high-speed, long-range, and multi-purpose drones will gradually come closer to resembling helicopters.
>>65114257Unmanned scouts with drones>>>
>>65115993The question is why you would use attack helicopters instead of UAVs in that role? If you are relying on drones for sensors anyway then you have already introduced all the vulnerabilities of unmanned platforms into the equation, so at that point you might as well remove all the downsides of using an expensive manned rotor craft and put all that ordinance on 2 million dollar drone instead of 30 million dollar attack heli.More generally, it seems like omnipresent sensors, long range fires and increasing quantities of AA of all kinds are eroding the few advantages of attack helicopters over fixed wing alternatives, at the same time as a competing platform (UAVs) is maturing that can do most of what an attack helicopter does.Back when the worst thing a helicopter had to worry about was ground based shorad, an attack heli could be loaded up on a grass field 50km from the front, fly up to a hill by the frontline to do a popup attack with an enormous amount of short ranged ordinance in reasonable safety.Now, in a high intensity near future conflict scenario, that same heli needs to launch 100km or more from the front (so it doesn't get its shit smacked by drone spotted long range artillery), and it needs to launch from underneath a multilayered air defense umbrella (because long range suicide drones and TBMs, again drone spotted). It then can only approach to maybe 20-30km because of the threat of interceptor drones swarming it or lurking 5th gens lobbing a fox 3 at it from 100km away. Then it needs drones to spot for it (introducing the vulnerabilities of UAVs) in order to launch a small number of very heavy and expensive standoff munitions. At this point, a stealthy fixed wing with glide bombs from an airbase 200km away does basically the same thing for only moderately more per platform but has a huge number of other uses, and an unmanned UAV can do the same job while risking much less valuable assets.
>>65114230No they're in a hopeless situation and will be phased out. There's not a single situation where it's worth it to risk pilots and much more expensive equipment for lesser capability.
>>65116225Because helicopters are flexible and have no layers of relay and sensor data interpretation between the platform and the decision making. Same reason drones aren't getting rid of manned fighters and bombers.
gotta love this idea that drones are somehow more dangerous to aircraft than manpads are.
>>65114321drone magnet platform
>>65116291that's not the point, you know how people will say that drones don't make tanks obsolete because obviously drones can't do the job of a tank, well in the case of helicopters drones can replace their role in recon specifically, also drones are more widespread available than manpads will ever be, since they are an anti-eveything weapon so they are distributed more uniformly to units on the field
>>65115542The sensor power on both of these concepts is so low.
>>65116279>helicopters are flexible and have no layers of relay and sensor data interpretation between the platform and the decision makingFew people appreciate how quickly conflict turns into chaos. You need quick witted humans to improvise because almost nothing will go exactly as planned. Since speed and awareness are essential so is being local to the combat situation. Modern drones can extend that sort of thing but they can't replace it.
>>65116497>since they are an anti-eveything weaponA given economically produced drone is suitable only for a select category of targets. A helicopter hunting drone is going to be no less specialized than a manpad and still much easier to avoid, frustrate and shoot down. The wake of a helicopter flips full size planes upside down and most drones can't even fly in strong winds.
>>65114230Sure, just make them smaller and remotely controlled.
Didnt they use them to pick up that downed pilot in Iran?
>>65116279>>65116555Helicopters already lose this advantage the moment they start relying on drones for sensors. A thing which they have to do due to the threat of long range A2A missiles on stealth platforms as well as various anti-UAV threats that are also good for hunting low flying helicopters within a dozen or so km of the frontline. If you already need drones supporting your helicopter for it to do its job, you might as well make the helicopter into another drone instead of suffering the worst of both worlds with a manned platform in a high risk environment relying upon distant unmanned systems.
>>65116291>>65116567manpads are hurt by their very limited range and being stuck on the ground, which allows attack helicopters to mitigate their risk via terrain and range. As soon as these limitations are overcome, manpads are in fact incredibly lethal to helicopters. This has has been demonstrated in Ukraine, where helicopters have been very successful when engaging at the edge of their range along a stable, well defined frontline, and those same helicopters have been absolutely atrocious at other times because they far too easily blunder into man portable waiting death or get forced to engage from standoff with pathetically ineffectual unguided rockets. Importantly, drones are far more capable of negating a helicopter's primary defensive tools by virtue of being able to fly over terrain and acquire their own targets. Which is why even the shitty drones we've seen in Ukraine have downed several flying helicopters, and that situation is likely to only get worse once more advanced interceptor drones get fielded. Sure, those drones won't be glorified toys shipped by the pallet from China, but they are still going to be relatively cheap compared to the cost of an advanced a2a or ad missile while being a lethal threat against helicopters which can't simply outrun or outrange a small UAV.
>>65116555>You need quick witted humans to improvise because almost nothing will go exactly as planned.Who don't need to be inside the helicopterChoppers are big as shit and expensive
>>65117315How do you control an aircraft you're not in through competent EWar, anon. You think you're gonna hook an optic fiber cable to a whole ass helicopter capable of carrying meaningful ordnance?
>>65117592laser links between drones
>>65117933Rain
>>65115993>walk cannon fire onto target from beyond the horizonMotherfucker, in what world is 30mm helicopter cannon fire going to be effective against a target ~25km away
Why is China so scared of drones? Aren't they the master of them? Don't they have a kill switch in them?
>>65114230Could probably work as drone hubs, flying drone operators and their drones around quick.
>>65118044in the world where helicopters also carry ATGMs and long range drones
>>65118044The only ammo available for an M230 is HEDP and HEI, it might not be effective against armor but it will still do nasty shit against infantry and light vehicles, especially because they dont hear any rotors and their drone detectors say the nearest UAV is a couple of miles out.
>>65116520Probably has something to do with the horizon being much shorter for a helicopter?
>>65118431hes talking about the lack of optics masts which give the pilot/gunner an even higher view to the horizon
>>65118044how much does a 30mm round slow down after that distance?using helicopter cannonfire as HE artillery would be kino
>>65115542>Bell's entry was like a mini CommancheI always got the impression it was bigger than Comanche
