I like these rifles. In fact, I like them so much, I consider getting a hunting license just to get one. How good is, say, a Kar98K for hunting deer?
>>65120781the cartridge is great for hunting. it just depends on how good you are with the rifle.
>>65120781the round will kill but the accuracy of the gun is going to be drastically worse than a modern rifle. if you decide to add a scope or want to accurize it its rather retarded.
>>65120788>>65120803I see. My only frame of reference is a raped RK62 made in 1970 that I used as a conscript. How does it compare to that?
>>65120827In terms of accuracy, I mean. Iron sights.
>>65120829your most shotout rk would have better mechanical accuracy than a "good" kar98.its still good enough for hunting but you are looking at a 3-5 moa rifle. im sure somebody is going to say oh i have a perfect example thats way better than 3 moa but that s the exception.
>>65120843Aha.. I suppose it would be immoral to purposefully use an inaccurate rifle on an animal which may lead it to just getting disabled for the rest of its life.Is there anything you might suggest as an alternative? A wooden bolt-action rifle. I just think they're cool.
>>65120882>omg you need to spend $3000 to ethically shoot this deerNo, just get closer
>>6512078130.06 .303 8mm 762x54r travel way beyond 2500 fps the rounds are like an explosion effect on flesh targets its why you see guys die before they hit the ground in ww2 video I saw another guy speaking against the accuracy but most people aren't even skilled enough to see any practical difference in accuracy You should be able to nail the target at 100 yards easy
>>65120781Get a civilian version so it doesn't have a 80 year history of corrosive ammo
>>65120781>Jungle CarbinesThat Spanish Military 308's probably more practical. The 8mm would be good if going after elk, moose, bear as well at some point. Jungle carbine versions are handier at least. 6.5 Carcanos even handier, but the ammo's at a premium.
My friend bought a Springfield 1903 that had been used for moose hunting, not bubba'd either and was still in great condition. Idk how the owner hit anything with the battle sight
>>65120781Anon, all of these rifles were invented with hunting in mind before the major powers adopted them for infantry use. The ones made during the world wars are usually of lower quality than the ones made before and after the wars, but over time it's not uncommon to find one that was accurized after the wars. If you watch season 1 episode 6 of "Life Below Zero," the Inuit lady uses a Finnish Mosin Nagant to hunt. She makes it look easy.
>>65120781Classic bolt action rifles have been used to hunt deer for as long as they have existed. Military calibers such as 8x57mm, 7x57mm, 6.5x55mm and .30-06 are perfect for the job and still widely used today.The only thing is that a modern hunting rifle is going to be much lighter, so it'll be easier to go innawoods with it, it'll be more accurate so you have a longer effective range within which to take a humane shot and you can mount optics which is tricky on an old rifle meant for irons. You can shoot it as-is so long as you practice and are confident that you can make the shot at the range at which you are shooting. What you should NOT do is try to modify an old milsurp gun into a hunting rifle. That is highly frowned upon by collectors and at that rate you'd be better off getting a proper modern or classic hunting rifle in the first place.>>65120827Assuming the K98 has a barrel in good condition it'll be about the same only much more recoil and a nice smooth bolt throw between each shot rather than semi or fully automatic fire. Flatter trajectory at range too. In fact the lowest setting on the rear sight of a Mauser 98 is typically 400m so you might need to aim slightly lower than the intended target at closer range.You do have to factor the condition of the rifle you are buying because these old rifles were not designed to meet the accuracy standards that people expect out of modern bolt-actions. Back then the average acceptable shot dispersion was around 4 MOA (~10-11cm of dispersion at 100m) whereas today most bolt actions can be sent in for warrant testing if they can't accomplish at least 1 MOA (~2.5cm). With a ~400m shot that can easily be the difference between blowing the heart out and skipping the soft-point off the shoulder-blade then tracking a wounded deer for god knows how long assuming your aim is absolutely perfect. With a trashed barrel that dispersion could easily be a full meter across at that distance.
>anons saying its alright but not perfectConsidering how many rifles use a mauser action is this more of a case of the barrels being shot to shit?Would a new barrel fix a large part of the accuracy issues? Or is it also missing things like free float and bedding to be competitive with an off the shelf rifle made today?
>>65120930I wouldn't really recommend the Spanish Mausers. All of the examples I've seen have really shitty steel that's butter soft and small parts like the safety never seem to work properly or are loose as hell.Shortlist if you must hunt with a milsurp rifle would be the same things you'd use for a vintage rifle match.-Swede Mauser in 6.5x55mm-Finn M39 in 7.62x54mmR-Swiss K31 in 7.5x55 SwissIt is said if you are in a vintage rifle match with anything else you are not in the competition at all. Those 3 were made to the highest standards of their day and can just about keep up with modern rifles to this day. Plus you almost never see a K31 or M96 that is worn out.>>65120969The M39 is a Mosin that has been tuned to be as good as a Mosin can possibly be. The difference between an M39 and an M91 or M91/30 is like the difference between a Lada and a Mercedes W123.
>>65120979>shot to shitOr pitting. It's deer hunting, so range really oughtn't be an issue accuracy wise. Rule of Cool, get what looks interesting and in a caliber you'd tolerate the price/availability for. Probably could find a sporterized example with most of that done already for less if you wanted something scope mounted.
>>65120979>Considering how many rifles use a mauser action is this more of a case of the barrels being shot to shit?>Would a new barrel fix a large part of the accuracy issues?And the fit of the barrel to the stock but unless the original is an actual sewer pipe and the rifle has next to no historical value (like a Mosin) I wouldn't do it
>>65120979Replacing the barrel is a pretty serious process. It can be done, but to do it properly you need to fit/headspace it. Plus there isn't a stockpile of new replacement barrels lying around for every type of Mauser rifle, typically back in ye olde days if they made a barrel they'd stick it on a rifle. They'd only make new barrels if they were refurbishing or upgrading large swaths of them at a time. You can stick a modern barrel on but you'd be better off with a modern rifle at that rate.Just as a general rule with historic guns, if it's original leave it alone. Replacing small parts is one thing but screwing around with whole barrels is a bad idea. Let a collector enjoy it instead.>free float and beddingThat's also an issue. Modern rifles do this much better. Old rifles would have complicated shimming around the barrel but free floating gets away from that concept altogether. This is why the very best classic rifles only shoot about as well as a decent budget rifle does today.>>65120969Forgot to address>Anon, all of these rifles were invented with hunting in mind before the major powers adopted them for infantry use.This is absolutely not true. They were developed as military rifles because there was a massive race in the 1880s/90s to re-arm and upgrade because all of a sudden smokeless powder was a thing and it was a big enough change that any country that stuck with large bore BP cartridges would get fucked by any country that went to small bore smokeless repeaters. They did sell commercial models alongside military orders, but for like ~30 years straight everybody who could make military bolt action rifles was selling them as fast as they could make them. Mauser had salesmen running around in South America stirring the pot just so they could sell ~100,000+ rifle orders and turn around/sell another ~200,000+ to the neighbor of the first guy. Then WW1 happened and it got even crazier.
with cartridges like that you'll turn deers into red mist.
>>65120979Its that the acceptable standards for accuracy with most milsurp was low for ww1 and ww2 guns. Acceptable for a kar is 4.8moa. then theres the wear and tear over the years. You could try to accurize but its an expensive waste of money and bastardization that will run multiple thousands instead of paying 300 for a savage axis and being done with it.
>>65121011>deers
Friend reminder that a rifle scope is only partly for accuracy and the best purpose it serves is target identification, especially in poor lighting. Deer move a ton within their groups, so if you're hunting with irons and stow your binoculars to switch to the rifle, the deer may now be in a bad position (overlapping, etc). A scope also gets you about an extra fifteen minutes before full daylight and another fifteen after it would be too dark to realistically use irons. Sometimes that doesn't matter, but mid to late season when the herds are pressured and much more nocturnal, sometimes that's the only time you'll even see any.I love me milsurp but they're completely outclassed by a modern rifle with even halfway decent glass. If you're in finland, you have access to some pretty great domestic options. And if you ever run into Serral please beg him to enter an Evo tournament.
>>65120781Been killing whitetail with my 1928 91/30 Mosin for a decade, never failed me. Milsurp hunting is greatThis guy >>65120803 is retarded, the accuracy is fine. The reality is East of the Mississippi 95% of the time you'll be taking shots within 100yd, and West of the Mississippi you'll still almost always be within 250yd. Milsurp rifles are more than capable of doing that, you just need to get out to the range and know your zero
>>65120781The cartridge is great, the rifle is also great, the irons just suck major balls. I really love the history of the K98 and I even love shooting mine, I just absolutely despise the irons. It leaves me shooting my nugget more in the end because those irons are at least easier to use and more fun to me as a result
>>65120781https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVJPADPNP7I
>>65120781what will you hunt? For elk or deer youre just upping difficulty slider a bit(and ammo is MUCH more expensive than .308, you must use expanding ammo when hunting many game animals including deer) + having no scope sucks in low light. For birds, fox, raccoon dog? You can use it but dont expect much success.Also be mindful about how far 8 mm can fly.
>>65120981>he M39 is a Mosin that has been tuned to be as good as a Mosin can possibly be.My point still stands.
>>65121006>This is absolutely not true...Just because most sales went to the military (duh, the government has money) doesn't mean the designers didn't design accurate rifles for marksmen.
>>65120827A raped rk62 with Lapua ammo is probably more accurate than a WW2 k98. 7.62 Soviet doesn't really burn barrels at all and Lapua ammo is some of the best. People won't be able to give you an objective answer because it really depends but k98s hand picked for sniper use were around 3moa.All that said deer hunting is close range so it'd be fine. Id honestly get a swiss k31 though they're the best in the world as far as military bolt guns of that era go.
>>65121877>k98s hand picked for sniper use were around 3moa.Really? That sucks. I mean, the Mosins that were handpicked for Soviet snipers were the same, but the US was getting 1 MOA out of accurized M1903s, and that's a Mauser rip-off, so I assumed that the originals would be in the same ballpark.
>>65121889Yes but ammunition was a large factor. There's a reason & is that swedish Mausers are the only ones really competitive with 03s in CMP vintage sniper as well. Rarely will you see an 8mm Mauser.
>>65120882>>651208433 to 5 moa is enough to hunt deer in Finland since you are going to be taking most of your shots inside 100m since you are most likely going to be hunting in a forest (even if you are hunting at the edge of a clear cut)It's not ideal, obviously, but you'll still get the job done if you get their heart and lungs. 3 to 5 moa at 100m is like 75mm to 125mm. Headshots with a 3 moa gun are unethical but lung shots are not.The standard front sight on a K98 sucks. If you are fine making minor, reversible modifications to the rifle, either replace it with a bead/blade or even fiber optics. Alternatively, paint the front sight bright white (or pink, or orange) with nail polish.People like to minmax their guns but my grandpa hunted deer with a K98 his brother brought back from the Battle of the Bulge until he got tired of getting shot at by drunk retards. He sold it before I was born, which makes me sad. After that he just hunted upland fowl.Alternatively, I am pretty sure in Finland there isn't anything stopping you from getting a K98k for "hunting" and then deciding later to get a Tikka or something for Hunting. I don't know Finnish gun laws super well but from what I gather they are pretty chill as far as centerfire bolt action rifles are concerned and you can buy more than one, and storage and inspection requirements for one rifle and two rifles are functionally identical because any locker that can hold 1 rifle can hold 2 rifles.>>65120930>>65120981Swedish Mausers and 6.5x55 Swede are probably the best option, especially commercial rifles in 6.5x55 Swede, since it is in common use all over northern Europe, but I am assuming OP wants a K98 for *reasons* and is just using hunting as a pretext.
>>65121945>until he got tired of getting shot at by drunk retardsThis story is so common for European hunters.
>>65122065he was in the United States but yes.
>>65121889>I assumed that the originals would be in the same ballpark.They could have been. Author E. C. Crossman in his "Book of the Springfield" says that the German manufacturers he had personal experience with just didn't care enough about manufacturing tolerances to consistently produce barrels that met the specifications he contracted them for. A DWM table of Mauser cartridge accuracy reproduced in Ludwig Olson's "Mauser Bolt Rifles" consistently showed the German 8x57mm rifle and cartridge to be the worst accuracy performer among 6.5x55, 7x57, 7.65x53, and 8x57.
>>65122108>A DWM table of Mauser cartridge accuracy reproduced in Ludwig Olson's "Mauser Bolt Rifles" consistently showed the German 8x57mm rifle and cartridge to be the worst accuracy performer among 6.5x55, 7x57, 7.65x53, and 8x57.That's a shame. We've been glorifying German engineering for too long, I guess. How did the 9x57mm Mauser guns perform in accuracy compared to the ones you mentioned?
>>65121865>doesn't mean designers didn't design accurate rifles for marksmenbut they didn'tthey designed rifles that could be decent enough to consider and cheap enough to produce so they could get that sweet contract money and governments really didn't give a fuck about marksmen use (which wasn't even a thing before WW1, when most of these actions were designed)
>>65120781Aim for the head or neck. It is a great rifle.I have a Zastava M48 and it is cool.
>>65120781Cartridge is good, design is good, but Barrel is 70 years old. Actual WW2 rifles are antiques and likely went through a war or two. All that shooting scrapes away the rifling. That being said, new Bolt-Actions are still being made. https://www.sportsmans.com/c/cat100003-hpf-30-06-springfield-rifles?srsltid=AfmBOookFM7j_-dpuIVDBEqMl1xr6ewwMKscUJbKQ3VNFNNDJ4C2dhGbGo get em.
>>65120781The vast majority of deer I shot was with a No4Mk1* Enfield. A Mauser service rifle should be just as effective.
>>651221347x57 Mausers were made in Germany too and those are tack drivers from what I hear. Had some popularity as hunting guns post war because of that
>>65120781They will work but accuracy won't be as good as anything modern. One point to note is that point of aim won't always be the same as point of impact based on ammo and the sights. Some rifles have a minimum sight setting of 300m which leads to a higher point of impact than your point of aim. I took my Type 99 out last fall and took a doe with it.
>>65122762>7x57 MausersNo no,we had already discussed the 7x57mm Mauser; I was truly asking about the accuracy of the 9x57mm Mauser (and later a 9.3x62mm Mauser) that were made in Europe for hunting game in Africa. The other guy was saying that the reason that 8mm Mausers had bad MOA was partly due to the ammo, so I was wondering how the even larger bores performed.
>>65122161>Cartridge is good, design is good, but Barrel is 70 years old.Which tends to be very much a problem in Finnish market as far K98k rifles are concerned. One of my friends is a collector, who collects German WW2 guns and what he had noted to me several times is that K98k in Finnish market tend to be either hideously expensive or with shot-out bores. Exception to the rule are Soviet-captured and Yugo K98k rifles, some of which are floating in secondary market and less interesting to collectors, but can be time-consuming to find.Also availability of 7.92 x 57 IS ammunition is pretty bad nowadays. Finland being Finland 7.62 x 53R / 54R is widely available in every single gun shop. Another easy to find cartridges that started as military cartridges are 6.5 x 55 SE and .30-06. Swede Mauser rifles in 6.5 x 55 are easy to find, while old US military rifles in .30-06 are very rare in Finnish market. Be aware that not all 6.5 x 55 SE / Nordic is necessarily good for old Swede Mauser rifles, since it is now offered as factory-ammo that is loaded beyond what used to be the standard originally.From those suggested by others 7 x 57, 7.5 x 55 Swiss and .303 British ammo all have poor availability in here.If you are good with iron sights, I don't see why old WW2 era rifle would not work for you for something like deer. In many areas the terrain and amount of brush tend to limit shooting distance anyway.In case you decide that you want something bit more modern and have a rifle designed to be equipped with a rifle scope, old Tikka hunting rifles are now becoming available in used guns market in huge numbers due to boomers who once bought them new either becoming too old to hunt or dying off. Most new hunters want new rifle, so prices of those used hunting rifles are going downhill. Hence something like used Tikka M55 or M65 does not exactly break a bank, lot of them are hardly used and they are better suited for hunting that WW2 era rifles.
