Greatest handgun clambering ever coming through
>>65125996There are factors than just penetration depth. Overall energy, temporary and permanent wound cavities. The 10mm ammo was also the watered down version to try to get the appearance of comparable penetration. Full power 10mm would show greater impact to the gellow and larger wound cavities, maybe deeper penetration.
I like .40 s&w maddafact if you wanna know the troof about it
>>65125967Is it really good enough for bears?
>>65126229Yes, just get real 10mm. Underwood, Grizzly, Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, maybe magtech...It a good intro into hand loading too.
>>65126180>Full power 10mmThat still wouldn't yield the velocity it takes for temporary cavity to matter
>>65126512Anon asked about bears, for which you'd be worried about penetration and not the wound channel size beyond the size of the bullet itself.On the other hand, if you want that sort of velocity (begins around 1500-1600 fps for a bullet with the frontal area of a 10mm) there are plenty of loads ranging from 155gr xtp bullets at around 1500 out of a 4.6" barrel to the wizz bang civilization defense stuff making 2400 with ultralights.The underwood screwdrivers are nasty in this caliber as well.I'm not arguing for 10mm, it's a pretty silly round compared to 9 or 40, but there are no shortage of offerings in it that will exceed the elastic limit of tissue.
>>65125967My grandfather told me that people who prefer a .45 ACP over a 9mm are like people who own lifted pickup trucks with no dirt or debris on it, "they are always trying to compensate for something". 9mm and small pistols are good for the average person and can carry more in a mag than a larger round.My grandfather knows best, hes whatever generation before the baby boomers which makes him wise.
>>65126541Fair
>>65126541Do you have more information regarding fps to frontal area like that? Always just hear flat fps thresholds
Literally no point when 95% of .45 Auto handguns can fire 45 Super with just a spring swap.
>>65125967I SHOOT 10MM!
>>65126550>hes whatever generation before the baby boomers which makes him wise.4u.
>>65126581Why tf isn't. 460 Rowland more of a thing?
>>65126563I read a study on it a long time ago, and don't have it on hand. I remember that with 357 mag it was observed beginning at around 1500 fps, and obviously gets better the faster you go.It went how you'd think, smaller diameter or sharper projectiles that don't fragment have to be going faster to exceed that elastic limit than things with larger frontal area.Stuff like those liberty rounds will blow horrible meat grapefruits out of tissue when chambered in stuff like 357sig or 10mm, other hot offerings like various underwood stuff will do it to a lesser degree but still manage to break out of the pistol curse of "only pokes caliber sized hole" for whatever it's worth to you.
>>65126617It literally doesn't matter. It's still a pistol cartridge, it performs the same as all the other pistol cartridges.
>>65126180Fucking fmj 10mm would have better penetration. Period.
>>65126550Yur gramps sounds like a fud
>>65126541If you're worried about bears, then do penetrating 10mm rounds go farther than penetrating 9mm rounds?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We_aHSA2Pbc>>65126563He doesn't because he made it up.
>>65126621No, because paper data shows proofs it is superior.
>>65126662Just stop hating people with fathers. Also, fuck you Canada, gibbs extra nickle!
>>65126685My gramps could beat his gramps in a quick draw.
>>65126670Yes, proper 10mm hardcast will penetrate more bone and tissue without deviation than 9mm hardcast.I didn't mean to upset you. I carry a 380.
>>65126229>>65126489>>65126541According to Tim Sundles (founder of Buffalo Bore ammunition and a very experienced dangerous game hunter), spicy .45 ACP with a properly selected projectile is preferable to 10mm for animal defense. Unless your barrel length is enormous, you aren’t getting anything like rifle performance from an autoloading handgun round. Your priority should therefore be reaching sufficient penetration depth with a large projectile diameter. By these parameters, .45 caliber beats 10mm even without getting into the really hot stuff like Super/SMC or Rowland.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fg9t1Hw9fKw
>>65126229If you’re worried about bears, carry bear spray. Handcannons are statistically inferior
>>65126737I should clarify that, while 10mm does have better sectional density and penetration than .45 options, hardcast and monolithic loads in both chamberings always demonstrate SUFFICIENT penetration for realistic animal defense scenarios. “Energy dump” has never been demonstrated to be anything other than a sometimes-useful abstraction, and you aren’t going to be getting some kind of magical turbo inelastic hydrostatic blast effect out of your 4.5”-6” barreled autoloading handgun on tough big animal tissues. The wider hole through the animal, therefore, wins the comparison.
>>65126737>claims kinetic energy formula is flawed>mentions John Taylor>doesn't mention TKO factor>google TKO>top hit: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=173Valid.
>>65125996Now show us civil defense high velocity HP
>>65126748Found the sierra club activist
>>65126621Why aren't you making a glock19 sized .25acp? Super low recoil, a lot more capacity, same performance as .500s&w mag. Really you'd be a wealthy man to exploit what over 100 years of firearms designers were too dumb to do
>>65126748>recommending an AoE sensory persuasion spell whose effects vary depending on wind conditions for use against aggressive beasts in remote outdoor environsStop trying to get apprentice wizards killed, thou miscreant
>>65125967>more penetration than necessary even for a grizzly bear or moose>smaller wound diameter than its older, humbler .45 competitor >more expensive and harsher-recoiling than its older, humbler 9mm competitor>wears parts faster than either Great choice if you want to shoot through barriers better than 9mm using a handgun without giving up too much capacity, I guess, but it seems kinda overrated otherwise. .40 S&W is worse, at least…
You know, discussion of bear defense is way overstated for how much of a threat bears really are. In black bear country (everywhere in the CONUS except the Idaho panhandle and surrounding areas) I feel completely secure with a pocket 9 or .380. I don't really buy the "bears are a le heckin euphemism for niggos lolololol" thing either because this is 4chan and you can just say nigger. Besides, even the most zooted nog completely disassociated on the latest Chinese synthetic drugs doesn't suddenly gain a bear sized torso that needs 32" of penetration.
>>65126873>posts chicago vs la demographics pie chart>why the deception?
>>65125967Mandatory watch for every anon itt:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIB58HYc3F0
>>65125967I impulse bought this
>>6512716190% of 10mm pistol buyerst. 10mm owner
>>65126811NTA but it's because people have been brainwashed into simultaneously thinking stopping power doesn't matter yet anything below 9mm is weak af and unsuitable for defense. It's bizarre.The centimeter isn't 10mm btw it's 40 S&W. Don't know why people who jumped on the 10mm band wagon keep spreading their ignorance on it.
>>65127182Yeah I don't regret it, but its definitely a heart gun.
>>65125967>Greatest handgun clamberingAnon
>>65126737>Guy who sells 45 super at 2+ dollars a bullet says you should buy that over 10mm available at nearly every in person and online gun store.But yes 45 super can be somewhat better than 10mm (if you have a gun properly suited for it). I do actually buy both 45 super and 10mm, but I buy it from Underwood when they have sales, with the added bonus that they've never killed people's dogs while trying to poison wolves
>>65125996>The heaviest common 9mm bullet weight vs the lightest common 10mm bullet weight>5 inch vs 3.8 inch barrel>Sealed breech vs cylinder gapI guess that's one way to do a test
>>65127263>if you have a gun properly suited for itYes.Also would recommend handloading for it. Playing with GRT and seeing how spicy old load data for it is interesting.1/2.
>>65126737>Tim SundlesBless that loveable retard. >>65126774>TKO formulaGod this shit needs to die
2/2The loads I entered into GRT exceed the 28k PSI "limit", because that limit only has non-fully supported chambers in mind. You can shoot .45 Super in a normal G21 at 28k PSI or less with a 22# or 24# recoil spring. The "hotrod" loads as I've seen them called in picrel is where you need to fully supported chamber like KKM or LWA barrels. A USP stock can handle 28k PSI .45 Super loads, but idk about the hotrod loads going in the USP. Or M&P 45 w/ a heavy recoil spring for that matter.I'll be posting my recent .45 Super loads and specs in reloading general soon if anyone wants to check it out.
>>65126748I like spray, because you can use it when a bear is being a nuisance or an asshole and you're not sure if it actually wants to fuck you up. In that sense it is great.If a bear has already made contact with you or someone else, I'm not going for bear spray.
>>65127271 Yeah, Gun Sam Revolver Ballistics is a source for awful takes toohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDOYisRbX_I
>>65125996Are you literally fucking retarded?
The resurgence of the 10mm has been nothing but a massive marketing attempt to sell stoppin' powah to those who grew up on 9mm but see .45 as a grandpa cartridge.
>>65127263Sundles recommends plain old .45 ACP +p. He actually has a video complaining that his Supers doesn’t reliably work in his USPs. He also sells 10mm. If he poisons wolves and dogs, I think that’s a chickenshit move and I’m not a fan of it, but the guy knows ammunition.
>>65127325>Supers doesn’t reliably work in his USPsHe probably just needs an extra power mag spring
>>65127325I'll agree that he's fairly knowledgeable about ammo. But yeah he has a questionable past.
>>65127182>90% of 10mm pistol buyersI know, right? Yet I still want Tanfaglio.
>>65127199>The centimeter isn't 10mm>a cm =/= 10mmWhy are Americans like this?
>>65127277What am I looking at here
>>65125996The 10mm hole looks a lot more fucked up
>>65127325>the guy knows ammunitionAppears a "caliber" = 0.010" >10 thousands is a caliber >.45 is 5 calibers > 10 em emWeird.
>>65127393A grok. As in>i grok spock
I hate these retards with their rigged cope test, example of lying with statistics or through omission. Simply put, a bigger heavier bullet going faster kills better. Anyone trying to tell you otherwise is blowing smoke up your ass.10mm is good because its at the intersection between power, capacity and just manageable enough recoil to still be usable. Enough power to take most large game and defend against bears. Will shoot through cover and make assholes with soft armor think twice, high velocity and good sectional density means it remains fairly effective out to longer ranges. With a similar magazine capacity to 9mm, usually the same or a bullet less.If your out in a rural area with large herbivores, bears and methed out redknecks in trucks, 10mm is a good option. Of course a rifle is always better, but its the tool you have on you at the time that matters, not the one that got left at home or in the truck.
>>65127419Come on mannn My g20 could be so much more memetastic with the "if Aquaman owned S&W slide"
>>65127429>more memetastic with the "if Aquaman owned S&W slide">superior workmanship>not fish scale, snake scalehttps://youtu.be/N0HXAUE1aTA?si=j8FSHgBpnzvqIUui
>>65127281>>Tim Sundles>Bless that loveable retard.Fuck that lying nigger.He sold me flat nose .45 that turned out to be a filled hollow point, and expanded when I shot it into gel.When I emailed them to complain, this is what he said.>I'm the owner of Buffalo Bore and just saw your email. You are the second>person to say almost the same thing about our latest batch of this load--ie>that the bullet expanded on impact and in the first case, he specified it>did this in 10% bal. gel. You did not say what your test medium was.>No, that bullet was not a "JHP" that we filled and then copper washed. (I>hate it when folks jump to conclusions) It is a bullet we custom ordered>(I'm not ready to throw that bullet company under the bus until I do my own>testing) with a super hard core (antimony) and a triple plating of copper>alloy. If in fact that company dropped the ball and made these bullets with>a soft lead core (which is what they normally do for cheap blasting bullets)>and only a single copper plating instead of three, then I have a problem as>it reflects on us, as you pointed out. We have historically used the>excellent Hornady 230 gr. FMJ-FN bullet for this load, but Hornady simply>cannot keep up with demand right now, so we looked to a new supplier and>tested their first batch, but it was so good, that we did not test their>second batch of bullets for hardness.>I'll do some testing and get back to you. My biggest problem right now is>that with this current huge rush on ammo, I do not have any spare time.>Best,>TimI followed up multiple times after this, and he never got back to me, offered a refund, or even apologized.And I pulled a bullet and cut it in half. It was 110% a filled hollow point.
>>65127449>110% a filled hollow point.So you got 10% more bullets for your money. Stop whining.
>>65125996Why is everyone looking at this like its bad?That energy dump is insane. Its more than enough penn and none wasted going more than it needs to.
>>65126783>civil defense high velocity HPInteresting...>>65127311sybau>>65127406>>65127514Because the 10mm is tumbling
>>65127559Tumbling is a good thing. The 10mm will enter your chest, bounce around destroying every vital organ, and exit from your wrist. Absolutely deadly. Much like putting bullets in point first when you reload .223. Like poison.
>>65127559>sybau>stay young, beautiful, and uniqueYou too, sugar.
>>65127576That's great until you have common barriers to penetrate
>>65127579
>>65126817>not choosing a weapon with torrent and rapid fire when trying to hit a bobbing, head target that is charging you at 30mph*You* stop trying to kill apprentices.
>>65127449I always heard he was a difficult guy to deal with
>>65127767Most Agents of Change are, they are leaders with provacative ideas and people don't like to be provoked. People like the status quo, especially in the gun community. People who change things and "shake things up" are seen as a threat. That's why the founder of Daniel Defense, Marty Daniel and POF, Frank DeSomma were murdered. Oh, so you think Marty is still alive? Yeah, so is the dire wolf, right?
>>65127722Your “please don’t rape me but I respect your right to live” spritzer can is not a heavy flamer.
>>65127783Settle down Tim
>>65126873>polar bears account for 1% for all bear attacksBetter impose some restrictions
>>65127576I believe you're referring to 22lr
>>65127783Give me my refund Tim.You know those bullets weren't real flat nose.
>>65125967I can't believe I missed out on the era of budget priced steel frame Tanfoglio shooters bros.The witness hunter and stock 2 before they killed the slides are some of the best looking guns ever
>>65127281>>>65126774 (You) #>>TKO formula>God this shit needs to dieSeems to follow. Unless you prefer the .22-250 for grizz?
>>65127429Lone Wolf Arms custom slide.
>>65127449Not surprised he is shady. I've seen some of his boomer rant videos and there are lots of red flags. Kind of guy who can't admit a mistake or get past his own ego.
>>65126180I never see 10mm loaded that much higher than .40. I think the real issue is people underestimate .40. There's only a 3mm difference in case length. You're only able to squeeze 200-300 more fps out when you go to 10mm with a fully supported chamber and fuckoff bear rounds. That does seem to be considerable though. 10mm seems to be the furthest you can push a semiauto handgun round before it just becomes unviable due to excessive recoil or size.
>>65126873>1% of our bear population is polar bears>1% of bear attacks are polar bearsEVERY SINGLE POLAR BEAR HAS ATTACKED SOMEONE! HOW IS THIS NOT CONSIDERED AN ISSUE?!
>>65127987>>65127987>asinine strawmanBrother you've never even seen a grizzly bear. All these esoteric fuddlore "formulas" can suck my balls, they aren't scientific and exist nowhere in actual physics. The TKO factor in particular is maladapted to literally every kind of hunting besides elephant hunting, the whole premise was that a shot that missed the brain could still knock the elephant out. Are you making a lot of missed brain shots on North American game? Furthermore, bullets are way more important than cartridges. I would hunt the biggest chad 7pt elk with a .243 loaded with 100gr partitions with no hesitation; I would not do so with my .30-06 loaded with 155gr ELD-M, which delivers double the KO factor.Its 2015+11, ye olde elephant hunters of olde were highly based but if we want to see if a round is good or not we can just shoot gel and measure it. Spare the hocus pocus and just show me the fucking hole it makes.
>>65128346>bullets are way more important than cartridgesNTA Son, STFUIf you got caught you shooting at elk with a .243, every one of the game wardens, guides, hunters, and woodsmen up here would beat your ass silly with your own shit and throw it in the river after you started crying. Your mother obviously still picks out your clothes for the day.
>>65125967any of you fellas got a qrd?I've been seeing these 10mm rounds with nipples pop up in stores near me
>>65128501G9 Woodsman, right? That’s what I carried innawoods in my lol9mm before taking the .45 Super pill. Might get some more in .45.
>>65128346Lol, so angry. Hits a nerve much? Call that a 10mm TKO.
>>65126550He's a senile old fool.
>>65127182Same, I just got my tax return and I was drinking while on gunbroker so I bought this on impulse. I bought a sword a couple of years ago under the same conditions too. Yes I'm keeping both
>>65128866Looks like a sound choice, even if the decision process was corrupted.
