Why were hoplites never used again in conjunction with cavalry and light troops? Were bronze hoplon a 'lost technology' after centuries of Roman rule?
>>65126151They were basically eugenic superman so it's unfair to compare them anything since they were the mg42 of warriors it cannot be reproduced
>>65126151I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as a bronze hoplon, is in fact, a bronze-covered aspis, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, bronze plus aspis. Bronze is not a shield unto itself, but rather a decorative component of a fully functioning aspis made useful by its wooden construction and leather porpax comprising a full shield as defined by ancient Greek culture.
>>65126167You mean to tell me that the bronze cover was just decor and didnt glance off points and blades? Now thats a disappointment
>>65126151Man at arms has horses and armor by then.
>>65126172That's not what anon said. You're focusing too much on the word 'decorative' at the expense of the rest of the post.Rather anon's point (unless he is retarded) is that often the hoplon is misrepresented as a 'bronze shield', when in reality it is a big hunk of wood covered in bronze. That doesn't mean that the bronze *isn't* armor and it's concerning that you could possibly think that given the use of bronze helmets, greaves, gauntlets, and cuirass by Hoplites.In summary, you need to be slightly less willing to immediately drop your preconceived notions my nigga.>hunks of bronze are used by multiple ancient societies to protect against bronze and iron weapons, including the other parts of the armor panoply of the fucking hoplites we're discussing>bronze is heavier than nothing, so it should be easy to realize that hoplite warfare wouldn't have universally consolidated around bronze-covered shields if that heavy bronze was just for decoration - they would have used bronze bucklers like later infantry or just used pure wooden shields like everyone else because no winning warrior culture makes its kit heavier at zero benefit>It should be a matter of simple intuition that if you strike a big wooden shield with a spear / axe / sword / arrow that *isn't covered by bronze* those weapons will hack up and lodge themselves in said shield much easier than if that same shield was covered by bronze.
>>65126151"Hoplites" (spear and shield warriors) were the mainstay of medieval european infantry.
>>65126151Standing behind a shield with a pointy stick wasn't some wunderwaffe.
>>65126339
>>65126406exactly
>>65126151They were. Do you think spears and standing in a line formation was some lost tactic?
>>65126167Kek
>>65126151They weren't? It was under my understanding their use in conjunction with the hetairoi is part of what made Macedon so flexible.
>>65126323Youre right. The only reason a hoplon can have arm straps is because the arm is protected by the bronze layer. Otherwise, a shield with a boss must be only handheld since its sort of expected that metal will pierce or shatter wood and boiled leather
>>65128021>Otherwise, a shield with a boss must be only handheld since its sort of expected that metal will pierce or shatter wood and boiled leatherYou should look into how medieval cavalry shields were built.
>>65126537The Macedonian phalanx is different from the Greek one in organization, armament, and size.
Pike/spear formations were very hoplite adjacent, they even would do the hyper compact wall of spears formations where dozens of people are basically locked into a blob of spears, very effective against heavy cavalry.
>>65126151What's that? A spear and shield? Together? In a shield wall? Truly a lost art!
