I'm an European anon and I can finally get a pistol. I can only own one for now and I want to get really good a it. My end goal is to be able to be proficient at shooting a subcompact 9mm for self defense. Should I start with something like a .22 LR or should I skip all together to a full size 9mm? I have a few experience shooting, I was in the navy in a non combat role for 3 years and shot a couple of mags with a CETME C like 3 times and a G36 4 times. I even shoot some old STAR pistol a couple of times, but I have zero experience outside of that and they really didn't teach me how to properly shoot. I'm a poorfag but I will try to train as much as possible, shooting one ammo box once a week is enough to get good? At some point I would like to get into IPSC too but I have to be in a club for a couple of years before I can join IPSC.
Safety Not Guaranteed
>>65131125>How to get good at shooting a pistol?You practice. As in: shoot a lot. Until it becomes a second nature.You can also practice pulls and proper trigger action, dry.Skip straight to 9mm, unless you're super tight on budget. 9x19 ain't that expensive in the first place, like 15-20€ for a pack of 50 rounds usually.Choose your firearm well. Good grip and natural "pointing" characteristics help a lot. Easily available mags and spare parts are a huge bonus.CZ75 are good starting weapons, and high quality. Obviously Glawk is everywhere, and an OK option because of that, if it suits you better.But even more than that, Beretta M9 and its later variants is pure sex.
>>65131125Fellow Euro here, though our laws probably differ quite a bit.If you can only own one, and there is no caliber restriction, I'd suggest you get the one 9mm you want to be good with and train with that, especially as you say you're on a budget and already have some experience with firearms. I'd recommend joining a shooting club, so you can learn from more experienced members there, in terms of marksmanship and the ins and outs of your country's laws and regulations.Is shooting a box a week enough? To get proficient, yes. If you train with a purpose and not just slinging lead for the fun of it. Consistency is key.
>>65131125>Should I start with something like a .22 LR or should I skip all together to a full size 9mm?.22 will teach you basic marksmanship fundamentals and will be cheaper while doing it. you can still do that with a 9mm but it's be a bit more expensive and maybe a little harder.>I'm a poorfag but I will try to train as much as possible, shooting one ammo box once a week is enough to get good?I mean... eventually. ideally you want to shoot A LOT, but you have to work around your budget. but that's another point for .22, it's cheap. I don't know what ammo prices are like in Spain but I can get 500 rounds of .22 for ~$30-$40, that would get me about 100 rounds of 9mm.
>>65131157I found this one used, it's a very good deal for the price considering a new gen 3 glock costs twice. Still not sure about getting this instead of a glock 17, glocks are the only pistols here with decent part availability. >>65131181I plan on joining a shooting club here, there are very few shooting ranges which lets you casually shoot. Shooting in this country is just a big headache, depending of where you live there might be only one shooting range owned by the Federation of Olympic Shooting and they will make you pay and insurance and you have to partake in compulsory shooting competitions or they can kick you from the club.
Also I forgot to ask, how effective are laser training kits for dry practice? Are they a meme?
>>65131196It gives you immediate feedback on any errors you're making. They're a meme if you have almost unlimited access to a place to shoot and can afford to burn through a case of ammo every month. If you have neither of these things they're probably worth it.
>>65131125If you can only own one, you would be crazy to not buy 9mm. 9mm is the cheapest round anyway after .22 Recoil isnt bad, easy to train on. The problem with training with .22 LR is that its just not a realistic caliber, its got basically no recoil and its VERY different than shooting a centerfire round with real power.
>>65131196If you dont have a read dot they can be useful. Otherwise I see red dots doing what most lasers do but better, which is show your actual zero.
>>65131245it's a dry fire training kit. it uses the laser to mark the target so you can see if you hit it.
>>65131271people pair it with the mantis system too, it's a sensor with a software that tells you which error are you committing while pressing the trigger and such
>>65131192>Still not sure about getting this instead of a glock 17, glocks are the only pistols here with decent part availability.Czechnology is fucking awesome, and the old steel + hammer guns are sexy. In my country, every serious sport shooter uses a CZ over Glocks and shit. Brownells sells mags and shit for sure.Also, if you need a pop-culture inspiration, go watch the 1990s' Gunsmith Cats anime OVA, or read the manga. Rally, the MC of the show, makes a longass rant how awesome especially the Gen1 CZ is.>>65131196Better than nothing.
>>65131125First of all, euro here, so make your jokes now. However since I've been in the same situation I feel qualified to speak on this. The only advice I can give you is to find your own, personal technique and not get bogged down in theoretics about stance, grip and all that jazz. I found that 3 things make for good results in pistol shooting:1. A comfortable stance2. A consistent, comfortable grip3. Confidence in your firearm and ammunitionHaving to worry about whether you did your stance right and whether your finger was in the right place makes you unsure, inconsistent and hides real problems like trigger control, follow through and sight picture. As such I recommend practicing fundamentals and getting good at static bullseye shooting (which is standard at most Euro ranges anyways) before moving on to doing dynamic and combat shooting seriously.Also the number of rounds shot does not necessarily correspond to the progress you make. You need to shoot conciously. I will second the advice for joining a club. Having someone diagnose errors is invaluable. Aside from that, club activities and competing can be pretty fun. At least in my, very chill, club.Again, I cannot emphasize how important it is to have confience in your equipment. A big part of it is ammo. You might want to get a solid stockpile of the same lot to rule out ammo inconsistency in your shooting.
>>65131429I saw the gunsmith cars OVAs a few years ago, it was great and I will read the manga. I'm looking for used guns and it's full of Cz-75, it seems like here it's the standard for sport shooting too. >>65131434thanks for the advice anon, I already bought an airsoft glock 17 and I'm realized this on my own. I watch a bunch of youtube videos to do the new tacticool grip and it doesn't click with me, I'm more comfortable with a finger my left hand's index finger resting on the trigger guard. I will try difference stances and grips when I get my first gun.
>>65131196Its a meme thas potentially useful if you have a certain mindset. But those wanting it wont have that mindset. And those with that mindset would find it useless.
you can literally just dryfire in your room until you're good
>>65132134Seconding this. I dryfired the fuck outta my gun before driving my ass to the range where I would then print hand sized groups at 25m. Pretty easy to tell when you are getting good once the sights stop getting disturbed when pulling through the trigger. I also trained pulling from a holster and mag swaps larping john wick
>>65131125As for the pistol shooting, I want to brag. I, unserved dude, pissed all over the guys that served, in the SRA test. It was mainly pistol and you're-getting-shot-at shooting test. I killed a lot of cardboard. The best way to learn is to shoot a lot and have someone that knows what you're doing wrong to tell you and push you how to do it right.
>>65131125Are you Spanish? Between the CETME, G36 and Star it sounds like you did your military service in Spain.>22lr or straight to 9mm?Ordinarily I would recommend a lot of trigger time on 22lr to save cost and hone fundamentals but getting the additional gun may be difficult from the perspective of licensing. Perhaps an air pistol could be a viable substitute and would allow you to practice outside of a range, but that depends on how airguns are regulated where you live.Another option is a conversion kit for a 9mm pistol to fire 22lr, but their availability, cost and legal status can vary.Fundamentally you need to master grip, sight picture and trigger control. Dry fire practice can help a lot with that so long as it doesn't damage the gun (in some cases it does, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it's insignificant). A non firearm like a pellet gun or airsoft does at least give you some feedback, plus there are laser snap cap devices that allow you to practice shooting at a digital target nowadays. >Box of ammunition a week.You'll need a lot more than that. Ideally take an actual training class from a competitive shooter to ensure that you are on the right track and then shoot a lot. Hundreds of rounds every trip, a couple thousand per year. It's expensive but you are better off making every range trip worth your time rather than shooting just enough to not learn or improve anything.>>65131192Between the CZ and Glock I'd go CZ every time. Glocks aren't the most comfortable and you'll have to train around it a little bit, CZ tends to fit people very well. Heads up that the B models like to break trigger springs occasionally at high round counts so buy a spare one or two before you need it.>>65131196It's something that gives you feedback beyond just dry firing. Helpful but not a complete substitute for range time.The biggest advantage is being able to augment range time at home.
>>65131540I can see the CZ-75 being a popular standard for shooters since it's a good design, they are cheaper in Europe (way overpriced here in the US) and Spain in particular used the Star 28 and 30M for a long time. I recently got a surplus Guarda Civil issue Star 30M and it is remarkably similar to the CZ, but not quite as good. Not a bad pistol though.
>>65132616>Are you Spanish?yes, I served just before the last CETMEs were being decommissioned. I actually find them more intuitive to shoot than the g36 and the recoil wasn't that bad.>Another option is a conversion kit for a 9mm pistol to fire 22lr, but their availability, cost and legal status can varythis is not as bad idea, both glock and the beretta 92 has .22 LR kits, and it can done legally but it needs some paperwork and letting the gun sit for a while in our ATF equivalent.>>65132635>StarI'm reading Spanish forums and people are recommending these and the Llama pistols for sport shooting too. But the thing is that they are not any cheaper than the CZs, I guess lots of people are buying them out for nostalgia since lots of millitary/police used them.
>>65132667There's a 22lr kit for the CZ-75 called a "Kadet", but I don't know what the process and cost for that would be as opposed to buying a standalone 22LR pistol. If it's cumulatively more expensive than just shooting more 9mm it isn't going to be worth it.>LlamaThey made a variety of pistols, which ones are you seeing in particular?
>>65132707>Llama they made a variety of pistols, which ones are you seeing in particular?there's a tons of models and they all have very confusing names, but people recommend the 1911 clones. There are lots of .380 auto pistols for dirt cheap too. As for STAR people recommend the Modelo B, the M43 and the 30M you posted. I'm considering buying the STAR 30M, even if it's a bit more expensive than a CZ 75B I really like the way it looks. And I might be able to sell it for the same price because they are very sought after. And I have found one that has never been used, pic related.
>>65131125Watch Beb StoegerRead Ben StoegerBen Stoeger is loveBen Stoeger is life
>>65132749I strongly recommend sticking to the CZ, it has better ergonomics and is more of a world standard. The Model B is nominally a copy of the 1911 but they cut corners and it isn't compatible with standard 1911 parts/magazines.The 30M is a competent gun, but I bought mine for $260. I would not pay €700 for one when a CZ is less than half that price and shoots better.The M43 is more of a compact gun so it isn't going to be as easy to shoot well as the CZ or 30M. It is also a bit of neither fish nor fowl in that modern carry guns are much smaller/lighter. I have handled some and I do like them, but I haven't shot one and I wouldn't pick it as my only handgun.The 380s are going to vary, probably most are straight blowback. The upside is a fixed barrel so they have better mechanical accuracy but the downside is recoil on a straight blowback pistol tends to be more snappy than a recoil locked 9mm. Plus worse ballistic performance and in the US higher ammunition cost (although in Spain 380 may be cheaper, I really don't know). They are neat but I wouldn't take one as a main gun for target shooting.Another key thing to consider is how Spanish gun manufacturers were. They used very soft steel and both major/small parts tended to have relatively short service lives. Later designs like the 30M improved, but these problems plagued Spanish guns throughout history. It doesn't help that they rarely shared parts with foreign designs.More importantly all of these companies (Star, Llama, etc.) are defunct nowadays so if you need a replacement part you have to scrounge. This is a nightmare in the US where often the same parts would break and with no spares imported or available the whole gun has to be junked. Perhaps in Spain old stock parts might be more readily available, but the CZ is going to be much easier on the whole since the company still exists and there is a vast amount of aftermarket support as well.
>>65131429Oh hey, you seem like the perfect anon to ask >>65133217
>>65132667I wish I could move to Spain:(Good luck to your gun adventure.
>>65133316Why? It has almost no economy and marginal gun rights.The climate is nice though.
>>65132432The SRA test is fucking gay in that it only tests pistol proficiency when that's like 15% of the score. Actually mandatory testing of all stripes is gay.But I did pass it too even though it was windy and -10 C and I'm a neverserved, not with flying colours because I'm a clumsy fuck but did pass
>>65131125Prioritize the 9mm, but if you can, I'd recommend both. I got the PPQ in 9mm and .22LR as my first handguns because it was one of the few models with a 1:1 trainer available at the time. I've gotten a lot of cheap trigger time with the .22, and while it isn't as good as a dedicated .22 pistol (like a Ruger Mark etc) it still helps a ton. Also, some of the local ranges are .22 only which weighed in on my decision.
>>65131125Best option if poorfag, buy CZ75 9MM and CZ Cadet .22lr conversion kit. Technically one pistol with accessories. Shoot lots of .22lr practicing fundamentals and developing muscle memory and shoot some 9MM to maintain proficiency.
>>65133550This. On a related note: I'm seeing much more love for the CZ75 platform here in America too. It really is great. Jeff Fucking Cooper loved it so much he smuggled one out of Czechoslovakia in the 80s. I'd suggest getting a P01 if you can, it's an excellent all around handgun. The PCR is a fantastic EDC.
>>65133550>>65133550>Cadet Conversion KitFor some reason it cost 800 euros in my country. An used CZ 75 is only 300 euros in comparison. I think I will probable end up buying the CZ 75 and just shoot 9mm.
>>65133718kadet kits are discontinued and even when they were in production they were pretty expensive. roughly 70% of what a new 9mm gun would cost. for just the slide and mag.the complete factory kadets were 200 more than a standard 9mm 75b. this is in usd
>>65131125European here that just recently started target shooting too.Skip the 22 and go straight to 9mm, if your local shooting range allows you to use rented guns try to use them all just to get a personal feeling on what you desire and want from a handgun.I am in the same boat as you and I tried different guns ( berrettas, cz, tanfolgio, glocks ) and I felt that the 98fs(Italian version of the 92fs that uses 9x21) is the one I had the best results and ergonomics.Reason why I looked up the 92x performance for my first gun
My eastern yurofag experience:I have a airsoft gbbr replice of my rifle and airsoft gbb pistol replice. Shooting them helps a lot with aim. Recoil is tiny but enough to throw you off target so its good practice - and somethinf you can do safely inside a room in your house. Air rifles are not something i reccomend shooting indoors, too much power, things shatter, bounce richochet etc. But shoting tagerts at 5m with airsoft together dry fire of real guns helps me alot when i get to range with real guns. Also airsoft is super cheap in that regard for 200eur you can get good airsoft pistol, gas and bbs to last you more thatm 3000shots easely.
>>65133757Airsoft sounds cool to shoot at home. I will look into it too. I have a glock 17 spring replica I bought in aliexpress and I didn't even buy any BBs, but I measured it and it has the same dimensions as the real gun. I just use it to get used to handling a pistol and practicing aiming. I used to have an air pistol and I even had a PCP rifle when I was younger, but I moved to a big city and you are right, airguns aren't cool to shoot indoors.
>>65131125Well shoot weaver not isosolces that's the main thing if you don't want to miss and be gay/dead
>>65133579honestly I hate my CZ75. I don’t like the way the trigger breaks on it and it’s unreliable, even with Speer 124 meanwhile everything else I have eats that stuff up like butter
>>65131125>for self defensedoes eu even have self defense laws?
>>65133927Mostly against it, but some post communist countries have pretty good gunlaws.
>>65133927>EUNo>individual EU countriesSome do yesGermany is kind of funny in that they have castle doctrine but no carry
