Post gear, discuss gear.Renegade Bootleg DVD Edition.Old: >>65114655Thread music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wiPEvmWywM
Op pic is ass./gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, anon got horny and anon fucked an Adept Colossus. I found 7.62x39 AP from FINLAND, and a guy on Facebook tried to sell a LIBA plate for $1,800.>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.165CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80 <44mm BFD):Budget: Hesco T212 or L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):Budget: Used Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum)Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DNDElite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)
>>65132763Oh, Cheyenne. What have you done?
>>65132860>We smokin' M2AP. We smokin' M993. We smokin' Swiss P AP. We smokin' that Finnish Sami Za Za kush that had Buffman bustin' 12 times. I run more AR500 than a daycare for social security collecting retards. I use more truck bed liner than a Chinese man makin' tuk tuks on the 9-9-6. Take daily nut transfusions from Peter North. Went blind from the spall and still out-shot ya mudda. Bought out the whole Botach stock of recalled Hesco 4400s for the hell of it; now I'm outfitting opps on both sides. Choked out my ops with a signal jammer and a duct tape tactical antenna; buried them behind the shitty chinese takeout Kensington with Philly trash sniper doin' overwatch. I'm throwin' cash around like I got covidbux for sum Hesco 4800s. Huffin' that doped ceramic that put black tip on fraud watch. My 2230s edge the Hesco 4403 wider than the Fulda Gap; basic ass M2AP 20ft/s over spec ran through her like an armored column. Fifth Hescuck NIJ suspension a matter of time. Did three tours in the /bag/ discord for shits and giggles; the FBI agents outside my door are the only thing that gives life meaning. Pissin' Infographics months behind and shittin' out unequal trauma foam. Hit that cheat ring and everything got squishy; woke up in Highcum headquarters: aw man, Rachel fucked us again. This shit doesn't return to port under its own power.
>>65132790>Op pic is assProbably something to do with copyright violation, not wanting to pay Stu Segal royalties, and AI "artists" not getting paid. Thankfully, living in the "computer age" has fulfilled the midcentury promises of the golden life predicted for the future.
>>65132958AI has no soul. This is soul so soulful it's like Pico's School 2 demo on newgrounds.
Botach has two sets of Stinger spike strips in stock, just in case anyone wants to stop the opps from rolling up.https://surplus.botach.com/stinger-spike-strip-police-tire-deflation-device-with-case-police-trade/
>>65133017>Botach>cannot guarantee performance, condition, or completeness.Yeah. Right in the description.
>>65133038why don't we use your car to find out? Meet me on East Hilton just off of Kensington ave at 2:35 AM exactly, right past Hispanic Community Counseling Services.
>He's a botach shill nowOh boy.
>>65133056I'll be there, wait for me.
>>65133076The virgin $86 Highcom 4SAS4 versus the chad $50 Battle Steel.>>65133077Empty courtyard behind the closed Dunkin fucker. If my man Darius is waiting there, it's on. If he's gone, split.
This is how you wake up in a bathtub with your spleen missing.
>>65133097Can't we just meet at the abandoned amusement park? I'll be in my van with my dog Scooby.
>>65133242Why are you pussing out? It's just Kensington dawg. This ain't Memphis. This ain't Gary, Indiana. It's the bomb ghetto, no cap, but it ain't the trenches. Scooby can finna cop fent on these million dollah blocks while you and I are popping tires with the jawns at Botach, ya feel me?
Does anyone have experience with Arktis? Specifically their C111 combat trousers? Worth it?
>>65133253arktis is very solidnever wore their pants
>>65133253nigga get some ski pants from goodwill or something
>>65133253Only arktis pants Ive had were ranger pants, I found them thick and kinda stiff, felt pretty rubust but overbuilt in a way I didnt really like; they may have softened over time but I sold them before that could happen. I will say replacing the worthless ankle pocket with a TQ pocket shows they put thought into the design rather than just blindly copying Crye like every other manufacturer, so credit to them there. Being a much simpler design than the ones I had, the combat pants may be better since less material and seams to bulk it up, idk. Are you buying them locally or importing from the UK, Arktis didnt have a US branch when I was buying from them and I got violently raped by like 3 separate taxes/duties, would not recommend going through that if things are still that way.
>>65133420Based thriftmaxxer
is there such a thing as gear made to be worn with a ruck on?I use the issued FLC and rucksack and MSV but every time I do an field event I have giant bruises up and down my hips from my body getting kinda crushed by it all. the FLC is especially bad for this (even if I like it overall) since mags stored in it tend to grind against my sides.
>>65134537>gear made to be worn with a ruck on?most of it, but nothing works greatlife of a pack mule is suffering
Just picked up one of these Katadyn Survivor-06 Hand Operated Desaltinators because I live in an area where the only water i can reliably get my hands on is brackish or salt. The unit is probably 20 years old but the add says it still works.
>>65134537do you wear all 3 at once? can you move what's on your FLC to the MSV and leave the FLC at home?
>>65134565yesno, it was mandatory I like being able to take my FLC off my MSV and throw it back on and have the same setup without needing to spend time weaving a bunch of MOLLE but I wish everything involved had a bit more padding or more thought put into the design.
>>65134570>issue PC with laser cut molle>no you can't use it, here's your 40yo molle vestthis kinda shit is why I was 4 and out
>>65134589>>65134565shit I'm having a strokedon't want to mislead anyone, I have a TAPS and not the ancient zip up FLC
>>65133253I have the ranger pants. They're stiff like the other anon said, I don't wear them enough to wear them in yet. My cryes are a bit nicer but these are obviously 1/3 the cost.
>>65134648could you make some stays out of one wrap to keep taps in place over the PC's cummerbund so that the mags don't jab you?
>>65132790This trauma pad guide fucking sucksThe Dark Matter pad weighs 1 pound each. That's more than IIIA soft armor in the same size and cut. And it barely does anything. It's legit garbage tier, like "I wouldn't wear it if somebody gave it to me for free" tier. Actually most trauma pads are in that category.There's only one GOD-TIER trauma pad, the Capytech CAP.
>>65134561Finally some decent gear! Awesome score, many pure sips to you!
>>65134632>have a TAPS and not the ancient zip up FLCBoth are good, when peoperly fitted. This pic is old, I med'd the flaps to a bunge kit.
>>65135050*Mod'd
>>65130075>zipperless coffin w/quilt style (worth looking into)Here. The grey quilt section is a sewn in flap with hand pockets in the head-end. It can fold out for convenient thermal regulation. But, it's a bit awkward getting in and out the oval.
>>65135045>This trauma pad guide fucking sucksThe state of play for trauma pads is pretty shit. I can only polish a turd so much.>The Dark Matter pad weighs 1 pound each. That's more than IIIA soft armor in the same size and cut. And it barely does anything. It's legit garbage tier, like "I wouldn't wear it if somebody gave it to me for free" tier.Does the IIIA soft armor behind a standalone plate reduce BFD by the same amount? That's the deciding factor. At least when integrated into the plate, trauma padding material tends to be more efficient. Admittedly, trauma pads won't help you though if threats are slightly above the plate's spec when standalone. IIIA soft armor will. Also, trauma pads can be used as drop protection by running them in front of the plates. You can cut up a yoga mat to do the same thing, but the point stands for the lazy.>Actually most trauma pads are in that category.There's a reason why only RMA, AR500, Spartan, and other like companies sell them.>There's only one GOD-TIER trauma pad, the Capytech CAPCAPs are an entirely different category, IMO. Because they ride outside the platebag they aren't limited as much by thickness. You can get creative because of this with double ICW setups like how the Russians do it.1. Plate + soft armor + CAP2. Plate + trauma pad + CAP3. Plate + trauma pad + IIIA Ratnik Tactical CAP (oddball)4. Plate + soft armor + IIIA Ratnik Tactical CAPI could go on. Russian armor getups are thick as shit. Even triple ICW is on the table. Trauma drop pro + plate + soft armor + CAP.
>>65132763Are LAPG plate carriers any good? $70 seems like a steal
FYI there are two sets of Hesco 4800s used on Tacswap. One is $750 shipped and the other $2k.https://tacswap.com/post/69f4a33b6c3e14c1928596fehttps://tacswap.com/post/690e65bcde6a57405501d57fThese enjoy a generally good reputation, but it has to be kept in mind like with all featherweight IVs that they're relatively flimsy versus their heavier brethren - especially after being dropped. If you need to make a plate lighter, proper drop protection is one of the first things to go. Push them past Level IV spec by even a hair and things get dicey. They're fine when not dropped, going off Buff's 4800LV test with solid multi-hit and even slightly above spec M2AP performance, so maybe uh invest in a trauma pad and run it in front of the 4800. Shore up the drop protection.
And here is Buffman's 4800LV test results. Drop test was skipped here. Puts on a comparable show to the 9900X, which was dropped, but at substantially less weight (4.9lb SAPI M versus 5.5lb SAPI M). Again, the catch is zero drop protection.
>>65135093> Does the IIIA soft armor behind a standalone plate reduce BFD by the same amount? That's the deciding factor. At least when integrated into the plate, trauma padding material tends to be more efficient. Admittedly, trauma pads won't help you though if threats are slightly above the plate's spec when standalone. IIIA soft armor will. Also, trauma pads can be used as drop protection by running them in front of the plates. You can cut up a yoga mat to do the same thing, but the point stands for the lazy.Nobody knows. This has never been tested. I think that the soft armor would do better, and would actually be useful in other ways, and would also be lighter... come to think of it, you'd have to be RETARDED to buy a 1-pound trauma pad, which adds two pounds to your carrier over front+back. That's a lot of ammo, or water, or anything else, you could be carrying instead.
>>65135367>Nobody knows. This has never been tested.I'd reckon Gilliam and Safariland both tested it. Why else do the 9969 / 8002 or the 2230 have trauma pads and not additional backer? Obviously I'm talking plate components here and we're really discussing separate products, but the materials and principles are the same.The 8002 leaves significant performance on the table by using a 0.25" built-in trauma pad. Or maybe it doesn't, because it sticks low-30s BFD against M993 and Swiss P AP even after a drop test, using materials so cheap Wilson sells it for $314 a plate - half the price of the Adept Colossus - which nearly goes over 44mm BFD even undropped. The Protech 2230 COULD have had an even higher M2AP v50 if its built-in "UNEQUAL" trauma pad was replaced with additional aramid. However, that would add weight, cost, and potentially higher BFD versus the trauma-padded solution.>I think that the soft armor would do betterI would agree if we were just talking pool noodle foam, but the more advanced trauma pads do genuinely innovate. I got a pair of the basic AR500 trauma pads, just for shits, for ten bucks used and they're frankly embarrassing to even look at. They're useless except maybe for drop pro.>and would actually be useful in other waysWell yeah, IIIA soft will shore up your plate's protection somewhat. Buff managed to get an LTC 28595 to stop reduced velocity M993 once when backed by IIIA, and that's not even Level IV. This isn't reliable however and should be treated as a chance thing. B4C plates suck versus tungsten unless the B4C is a special enriched or doped blend.>come to think of it, you'd have to be RETARDED to buy a 1-pound trauma padIf we assume the 32% BFD reduction number is good, that gets the Adept Colossus down from 40-43mm versus Swiss P AP to 26-29mm, which is nearly in VPAM PM-12 spec.To your point, however, this clearly isn't weight efficient because actual VPAM PM-12 plates from MARS are lighter than this combination.
And here is the counterpart Adept test report. BFD numbers, without drop test, against 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP are 30.56mm #1, shot #2 39.14mm, shot #3 is N/A and I have to assume over 44mm, shot #4 43.6mm which is a literal 0.4mm below the NIJ limit.The Colossus is dealing with Swiss P about 50ft/s faster, but that shouldn't make or break a 10mm difference in BFD given we know it's a high-headroom plate. The Colossus also took more hits, but shot spacing is wide so that shouldn't make a huge difference presuming the backer+face don't delam and the crack arrestor does its job. Seems the Gilliam 8002 puts on the better show by virtue of the drop test and perhaps also its built in 0.25" trauma pad, weight notwithstanding.
>triple post, sorryAnd here is the new hotness in PM-12 plates from MARS in Bulgaria. 7.3lb, SAPI M, 1.16" thick. Stops 3x 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP sub-25mm BFD standalone. SiC hexagonal tile array. There is a small cheat ring (it's like ~5mm, looks more like edge drop foam IMHO). Literally just came out last month, have not seen the actual test report. Assuming it's an honest PM-12 plate, it trumps both the 8002 and Colossus. Significantly tougher than an XSAPI with similar weight once you add XSAPI-required soft armor.Problem is... cheat ring. No free lunch. However, the Colossus is nominally sized and the 10x12 is really a 9.75x11.5, so maybe the MARS plate actually covers more...
No you're not sorry.
>>65135424It's nearly 1 pound heavier AND has a cheat ring? lolLooks like at least 0.75" on the bottom, a bit less on top and sides. Goes to show that tile arrays just don't work all that well, desu
When testing plates and chrono your shots do you measure at the muzzle, near the plate, in between?
>>65135459Buff usually runs multiple chronos ~12ft from the gun, ~33ft from plate or whereabouts. You should always run at least two and then take an average - unless the plate loses, then a good practice is to assume the lower number is correct.
>>65135461Do you have the size of the MARS cheat ring or any test report? Also MARS doesn't sell to anybody, lol. AFAIK their plates have never been available anywhere.
>>65135445Yeah...>>65135447You fell for Adept's nominal sizing. The Colossus is 6.638lb and 9.75x11.5 going off the Dec2024 test report. Corrected to be an actual 10x12 it's 7.1lb, SAPI M 7.3lb accounting for the less aggressive shoulder cuts.They are bang-on the same weight if sizing is apples-to-apples. The Gilliam isn't too far removed either. It's 8lb if sized as a 10x12 and not 10.25x12.25, plus that's SAPI-cut and not shooters so you can take the customary 0.2lb off. 7.8lb if it were a shooters cut 10x12 ain't bad for $314. Tenth of a pound heavier than a Hesco 4403 and MUCH stronger, albeit much thicker.>Looks like at least 0.75" on the bottom, a bit less on top and sides.That's the edge guard, not the cheat ring. There's strike face under most of that. This is just to optimize drop protection. The Colossus has the same thing. Look at pic rel left side.>Goes to show that tile arrays just don't work all that well, desuI wouldn't be too sure. Compare shot spacing for the MARS plate versus the first-gen Colossus, right side of pic rel. Same three Swiss P AP. There's no difference between the first gen Colossus and second other than they changed the cover from white to purple, or so I'm told.The Gilliam 8002 took both tungsten 7.62 hits on the "crown" (center) of the plate where a plate is weakest. Tile arrays often can do that. You need to run a motherfucker of a crack arrestor to make monolithics do the same.
Whats the best soft armor level 2 or 3 for everyday wear under a work uniform. Ideally I would like something that works for me to walk around nearly every where and doesn't alert anyone to me wearing armor but obviously thats going to be nearly impossible, but I figure I should at least ask the question if it is possible to achieve.Also beneficial to ask if there is really any difference between the carriers and cost for panels/plates.
>>65135469This was meant as a response to >>65135474I guess it had a typo and was deleted and reposted.
>>65135475The "best" is not usually available to civvies. It's fucking weird how restrictive soft armor sales are. If you have cop credentials, Safariland SX or Point Blank Alpha Elite BlackIf you don't, Highcom has some options that are sort of decent, I guess, but far behind the top-tier for cops.
>>65135469>deleted my earlier reply because I bungled the formatting, lolI have pic related promo picture that frankly looks like AI. No test report.>Also MARS doesn't sell to anybody, lol.They're like Bulgarian Point Blank and don't really sell to civilians. For that reason I'll excuse the lack of a public test report. Because this is a "post-XSAPI" plate made to address emerging threats, you wouldn't want to show your hand to everybody and their dog. Same reason why Safariland never showed the test report for the Protech 2230 demonstrating its M2AP @ over 3,510ft/s prowess. It is a lot easier to calculate how to punch a plate if you get the raw numbers and not some wishy-washy "over X" or "meets PM-12" figures where you know it meets a bar but you don't know how with how much margin.For all we know this MARS plate could be a real chad motherfucker and stop 7N37.>AFAIK their plates have never been available anywhere.Ditto for Tencate's actual high end shit or any LTC that isn't either phoned-in by the design team or a holdout model from 2008. This is normal for the armor industry.
>>65135487If that's correct, it's a whopper of a cheat ring, 0.5" each side, 9x11" plate. > For all we know this MARS plate could be a real chad motherfucker and stop 7N37.We'll never know and probably never even see a test report. Sucks.
>>65135475>Whats the best soft armor level 2 or 3 for everyday wear under a work uniformAbsolute best is Hardwire-57 IIIA, but be prepared to rip $5k for a full vest. An important note is that UHMWPE soft armor like Hardwire is really iffy with contact shots. If some asshat presses the gun up to you, your soft armor won't hold. NIJ doesn't test contact shots, and the overwhelming majority of soft armor panels subjected to the higher FBI soft armor protocol are aramid, not PE, because the FBI tests contact shots.>Ideally I would like something that works for me to walk around nearly every where and doesn't alert anyone to me wearing armor but obviously thats going to be nearly impossibleThinner the better as long as it flexes and wears well. Safelife has a "Hyperline" IIIA at only 0.19" thick but I wouldn't touch Safelife repair safelife replace with a ten foot pole. You don't have piece of shit mega-ringed 5.8lb no-drop poverty Level IVs and then suddenly turn around with best-in-class soft armor. It'd be like AR500 suddenly whipping out an XSAPI that weighs 5.5lb.>Also beneficial to ask if there is really any difference between the carriers and cost for panels/plates.Carriers can be cheap or can get expensive. For some reason (cost of manufacturing NIJ-cert IIIA using very $$$ PE or aramid) top-shelf soft armor is significantly more expensive than all but the very highest-dollar plates.>>65135484>Safariland SX or Point Blank Alpha Elite BlackBoth solid.>Highcom has some options that are sort of decentThey aren't bad. Stealth Armor Systems has some good aramid panels, and they test their soft armor to an interesting 5:15 Express protocol. Five inch circle, fifteen 9x19mm at high velocity. Random shot spacing with no minimums. It's meant to reflect a police officer either getting drilled by a switch or getting gun grabbed and then magdumped.On the contrary, SAS has been getting complaints lately about delays and people not receiving orders.
>>65135510>Absolute best is Hardwire-57 IIIANo, that's true only if you just go based on specsheets. Hardwire panels are stiff as hell. The best Safariland and Point Blank panels mog them in terms of wearability and comfort. > Safelife has a "Hyperline" IIIA at only 0.19" thick but I wouldn't touch Safelife repair safelife replace with a ten foot pole. You don't have piece of shit mega-ringed 5.8lb no-drop poverty Level IVs and then suddenly turn around with best-in-class soft armor.It's far from best-in-class because it's ridiculously heavy for soft armor in this day and age. It's weird that Highcoom are the best civvie-accessible soft armor company these days, desu
>>65135499The reason why I think the picture is wrong is because of the color of the ceramic. Silicon Carbide is a darker gray than that. Look at pic rel Gilliam 8002. An AI isn't going to know that Aluminum Oxide is white (or in rare cases pink), Silicon Carbide is dark gray, Boron Carbide usually a very dark gray or black. Or to keep the train going, UHMWPE is white, kevlar and other aramids yellow-gold, Zylon a dark gold - which is how people checked for Zylon in their sofft armor twenty years ago when they weren't sure or the manufacturer (Second Chance...) was playing fuckfuck. Requires removing the cover, but oh well.Anyways, either they're hinting at a special ceramic or the picture is just AI slop. I'm inclined to believe the latter.
>>65135522Why would they make their cheat ring bigger, though? Weird.
>>65135515>No, that's true only if you just go based on specsheets. Hardwire panels are stiff as hell. The best Safariland and Point Blank panels mog them in terms of wearability and comfort.I was thinking moreso in terms of areal density, which UHMWPE leads by a mile in. I agree the Safariland and PB panels win in terms of ergonomics. However, Safariland SX's Level II is heavier than Hardwire-57 in IIIA.>It's far from best-in-class because it's ridiculously heavy for soft armor in this day and age.In terms of civilian-accessible, relatively affordable soft armor, it's more "up there" than one would think. Comparing Hyperline to Hardwire-57 is like comparing a Hesco 4800 to a Ceradyne SAEC. One is "civie top shelf" and the other is "actual top shelf.">It's weird that Highcoom are the best civvie-accessible soft armor company these days, desuIt's between them and Stealth. I'm partial to SAS' 5:15 Express testing, but SAS owes some Chinese guys money according to some deleted youtube comments (made by said Chinese supplier of ceramics) so I wouldn't bank on them being reliable.Highcum it is then!>>65135499Here's a random ass plate sold by Verseidag in 2011, only rated to an equivalent to PM-11 (so 3x M993), stopping 7N37 with sub-20mm BFD. It's not even rated for 3x Swiss P AP but pulls that off. A well-designed plate shouldn't just barely pass requirements. Whoever OEM'd this plate (Tencate, most likely) knew what they were doing.
>>65135538> In terms of civilian-accessible, relatively affordable soft armor, it's more "up there" than one would think. Comparing Hyperline to Hardwire-57 is like comparing a Hesco 4800 to a Ceradyne SAEC. One is "civie top shelf" and the other is "actual top shelf."How's Militech's soft armor? Maybe it's pretty good?
>>65135538Also what the fuck is a Ceradyne SAEC? Is there specs on that?
>>65135524Classic case of marketing / AI prompting guy not talking to the engineering guys? I distinctly remember RMA's marketing guy / community relations dude / full-time reddit poster actually saying in the /bag/ discord that the RMA 1189's "cheat ring" was PE and would meet Level III requirements... because... you know... the backer is PE and the 8x10" coverage is just for the ceramic.>please ignore the fact RMA's PE backer on the old 1155, current 1155, and 1189 was not actually PE it was fiberglass impregnated with layers of PEFor another example, look at all the miscommunication between armor manufacturers and their vendors. Armor companies suck at external communication. It's not surprising IMO they suck at internal communication like "hey, make sure the cheat ring in the AI promo pic is only 2.5mm or 5mm and not like a Jinwudun cheater!"I'm not bugged by foam edges in the 2.5 to maybe 10mm range if it's honestly for edge drop pro. Where I really dislike the shit is when it's an inch or the full NIJ-permitted two inches on each side, because that's (in RMA's case) just being sneaky.
>>65135548Who knows? Honestly the cheat ring could be even worse than it is in the pic, though. We really have no idea.
>>65135544Well it's cheap, $259 for two BALCS IIIA panels at the time pic related infograph was made. Add fifty bucks for prepaid customs fee assuming you're in the US.The problem with Militech, or rather Jiangxi Jianlei Protective Equipment Co., Ltd., is that they could get NIJ certified but lie as to why they aren't. They've been around for 22 years. No certs! You can be certified in spite of being Chinese. You just need a place of business in the US, just like Longfri, where the NIJ's dudes can go and collect samples for FIT follow up tests.IMHO, it's because they don't want to be subjected to US jurisdiction if their shit fails and someone dies. Now their armor performs VERY well on youtube, but that's with paid affiliates. They have test reports, but many of them are on the older side and don't remotely have the sample size equivalent to an NIJ cert. One panel does not answer for dozens.
>>65135549Oddly enough, the plate's layup is almost identical to that TAS Xtreme plate Buffman tested. About the same weight, same thickness, similar hexagonal SiC design. Somebody copied someone else's homework.We can probably deduce the cheat ring is similar. Or maybe it doesn't have one and the AI is just retarded.>>65135546This thing in pic related. SAEC is my made-up name for it based on the classification - Stand Alone Enhanced Concealable. The plate, issued to DEVGRU and 24th STS, is so spooky the entire label is literally just X's. It doesn't even have an NSN. The Ceradyne 96034 issued to CAG has an NSN, four NSNs actually and less than 150 96034s were ever made. Food for thought.The rating and actual specs have been heavily debated. What's "known" for sure is that it's concealable by SOCOM standards, so it's likely 0.6" or thinner, given standalone, given that it weighs 4lb for a swimmer large, and uses the word enhanced curiously at the same time contracts were awarded for the development of an "Enhanced Concealable" Small Arms Protective Insert.In other words, it meets basic ESAPI requirements (quasi Level IV) standalone, 4lb, swimmer large, 0.6" thick. Now this sounds ridiculous being that it's about a pound lighter than a Hesco 4800, but this is well within Ceradyne's capabilities at their peak. Boron enriched boron carbide, a Ceradyne specialty, will get you there with less thickness than the basic B4C Hesco is using. The pair in pic related was listed on ebay for $4,250, sold off-site for $5k.
Speaking of 7N37-rated plates, here's these from Russia. We've discussed these before, the new BR5+ Granit. 7.59lb for an approximate 10x12, 0.88" thick. Requires soft armor and a CAP, so final weight is roughly 9lb and thickness like 1.5". Rated for 6x 7.62x54R 7N37 with less than 17mm BFD. Comparable to the Verseidag plate in >>65135538 but with superior multi-hit. This is a known tile array so that's where the multi hit advantage is coming from.On paper this is the strongest known actively-manufactured plate anywhere. 7N37 beats the Colossus easily. A pair or two just recently wound up "surplus" in Germany, so they're getting around, just not anywhere near the front apparently.
And a picture of said Granits. The 6x 7N37 plate is third row, middle.
>>65135510>but I wouldn't touch Safelife repair safelife replace with a ten foot pole. You don't have piece of shit mega-ringed 5.8lb no-drop poverty Level IVs and then suddenly turn around with best-in-class soft armor. It'd be like AR500 suddenly whipping out an XSAPI that weighs 5.5lb.Their plates aren't worth considering but their soft armor is on the CPL, including the hyperline so it should be good to go.
>>65135609>but their soft armor is on the CPL, including the hyperline so it should be good to go.Same could be said for the Hesco 4400 and Hesco 4600, DragonSkin SOV-2000, and like fifty Zylon soft armor products all at various points in time.NIJ only tests yearly, or once every two years if your company is ISO certified. It's very easy for a popular company like Safelife (they're the de facto security guard / mall cop armor shop at this point) to sell a lot of inventory between each FIT test. NIJ honestly is not a hard standard and I don't get why some companies act like it's getting gold at the Olympics. Real world conditions can be a lot worse. Can Safelife point to any of their soft armor being on the FBI protocol? PB and Safariland sure can.
And here's the FBI body armor test protocol so people don't think I'm pointing at some kinda invisible document like the Adept Colossus' PM-12 VPAM certification.https://www.bodyarmornews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/FBI-body-armor-test-protocol-2008.pdfHighcom's soft armor meets FBI requirements on top of NIJ, so that's one more mark in favor of the SA3100 and SA3920. Additional food for thought, the DEA has their own soft armor protocol and a hard armor protocol. The only one worth noting is the hard armor protocol, since it requires M855 / MSC / other threat impacts in pic rel shot pattern. Quite a bit more intense than NIJ's permissive >51mm spacing.
>>65133480It seems like I will end up paying an extra $30 or $40 with the added tariff bullshit. Not too terrible.
>>65133017What fun until prison.
>>65135617>Same could be said for the Hesco 4400 and Hesco 4600No those got pulled>SOV-2000, and like fifty Zylon soft armor products all at various points in time.And those are from 010.04 when there wasn't conditioning test. In fact the failure of Zylon directly led to including that in 010.06. Your examples are shit and your argument is bad faith. making 010.06 compliant soft armor is not hard. You buy materials from one of a handful of suppliers, DuPont, Teijin etc for aramids, and you sew the layers together and seal it in nylon bag. Anyone can do it with the right sewing machine and there's not much to go wrong. Its one of the reasons there are so many more soft armor vendors on the cpl than there are for plates. I'm not simping for safelife but come on, there's no reason to think hyperline doesn't perform to spec. Maybe its thicker and heavier than advertised but I haven't heard complaints of that.
>>65135759Tariffs are over. All the corporations get a rebate.
>65126804Might be a dumb question, but can delaminated plates be repaired? Like, take the cover off, reapply adhesive, put it through a hot press, and put on a new cover.
>>65135936>No those got pulled*Suspended>And those are from 010.04 when there wasn't conditioning test.Which is IMO directly the NIJ's fault because it took them thirty years and a dead cop or two to add conditioning tests. Wouldn't have happened if conditioning was in from the start in 1971. Second Chance obviously deserved the kick in the dick too but that's something NIJ should have caught.>I'm not simping for Safelife!You sure? >making 010.06 compliant soft armor is not hard.So why is Safelife's so damn heavy? I thought we were using the same suppliers. Hyperline is the same thickness as Safariland SX but is 1psf.>there's no reason to think hyperline doesn't perform to spec.It'd be pretty rough if it only met minimum IIIA, which is all the NIJ tests. Again, their plates are hot garbage, there are workmanship complaints with their carriers on plebbit. I'm talking about QC, not whether they can make something that works. It took years for the RMA 1155's cert to get removed. QC. Did anyone think the 4400 and 4600 were deficient before the NIJ yanked their certs too? Nope.The problem is that Safelife's other products are shit and that's not confidence inspiring given how infrequent NIJ FITs actually are. There are potentially thousands of soft armor panels getting sold between FITs. Better to stick to more proven soft armor manufacturers with FBI compliance on top of NIJ. I agree with the other autist that, under the circumstances, Highcom is the play here.
>>65136465In theory yes since that's no different from the original manufacturing of the plate. Yoi'd need to be positive the new adhesive is par or better than the old, since it plays an important role in plate performance.
>>65135306They are not
Here's the relevant infographic on Safelife since it's spawning interesting debate.1. SLD-PLUS is 1.54lb/ft2, which is extremely high, but that's because it's a IIIA+ panel rated for special 9x19mm and select 5.7mm above IIIA spec.2. HG2 is 1.46lb/ft2, which is horrible given BFD is still 39.8mm unconditioned versus 44 Mag. That's not a lot of headroom.3. Hyperline is 1lb/ft2 with a 0.1lb variance, so really call it 1.1lb/ft2. BFD is better at 34.23mm but it's still significantly heavier than Safariland panels. $849 a set though, which is rough.>As for rifle rated stuffFRAS is outright shit and they played games with the test reports, using a 9lb panel and skipping drop and submersion. The rifle plates are a straight up ripoff versus non-flexible options. Then you have the Level IV plate which weighed 9.82lb with soft armor, so it doesn't even reflect the 5.8lb plate they're selling. How do you even get 5.8lb with what's apparently aluminum oxide and cheap PE? That's SiC-PE weight with no drop pro a la Longfri 4SiCMH. Sounds like nominal sizing, cheat ring, and/or removed drop pro shenanigans to me.There's no reason to entertain Safelife if other options are available. Yes, their soft armor is NIJ certified, but that's not a high bar to meet and their stuff still doesn't match that from other companies. Areal densities are horrible. Stealth. Highcom. Safariland. Point Blank. LTC. Hesco.
>tfw you will never have TACTICUM armor
>>65136822good, I'm not in the artic, that shit is heat stroke waiting to happen
>>65136831It's also majority IIIA or equivalent, so all that extra armor is virtually useless if frag isn't a problem and rifle threats are the primary issue. Same goes for pic rel, but it at least has 360 degree coverage.
Jinwudun also just dropped a test report for their IIIA FAST helmet. Four hits .44 magnum. Front shot 43.4mm BFD, back 33.8mm, left 39.3mm, right 34.4mm.Numbers aren't pretty, but .44 is going to produce more BFD than 9x19mm and other more common threats.
>>65136853Isn't there some slap on sticky panels that can uprate this?
>>65136853HeavyShitty performanceYou'd have brain damage
>>65136841>all that extra armor is virtually useless if frag isn't a problem and rifle threats are the primary issueHas this ever been the case in any war within living memory? Even in WWI, where machine guns played a key role, "60% of the battlefield casualties were caused by artillery shells exploding."> https://www.theworldwar.org/learn/about-wwi/artilleryAnd in police action, the primary issue is handgun threats, by a ratio of 4 to 1.So rifles are almost never the primary issue?
>>65136963>goobered vs. deadsWhat do you choose? Wonded warrior poster child or 40 virgins in Paradise?
>>65136899Several. Jinwudun makes a Level III applique that goes on top and would massively reduce BFD against pistol threats.>>65136963Maybe that's why they're shilling the applique so hard. Jinwudun is generally a step below Militech, that's for sure.>>65136971>Has this ever been the case in any war within living memory?Nope.>And in police action, the primary issue is handgun threats, by a ratio of 4 to 1.And in that minority of cases, the IIIA wouldn't be helpful given M193 / M855 pierce several panels without difficulty.>So rifles are almost never the primary issue?Active shooter situations? If you were rolling all this IIIA in a Sandy Hook, Buffalo, Uvalde, etc situation it would only slow you down. Additionally, LE SMEs like DocGKR remain convinced that cops need rifle protection against M193, M855, M80, etc. If near a military base, M855A1 / M80A1. He has access to datasets we don't and if he's that convinced rifle threats are an issue then maybe the 4:1 ratio you quote is no longer accurate.Of course, compromises must be made and getting this much extremity armor rifle-rated is impossible without ridiculous weight and bulk. I'm curious what a 1.5psf version of Hardwire-57 would be capable of - maybe 7.62x39 MSC with standoff.
>>65136971most of us are Americans who don't ever intend on sitting in a trench like a sucker while artillery rains downour shtf fantasies are more about defending our freedoms using guerrilla warfare in a civil war style conflicthit and run, blend into a crowd that the opposition doesn't want to bombour concerns are m885 and m885a1it's a much more fun larp than modern warfare reality
>>65132763why is tacswap such jews? theyre as bad as the EE on arfcom with the used parts for more than new and retarded "I need to make my mortgage payment" shipping price?15 year old eotech 512, with full edge delamination, ground off serial number and MIL/LEO ONLY and scratched off US GOVT on the side. for only $650.
>>65137164>hit and run, blend into a crowd that the opposition doesn't want to bomb>our concerns are m885 and m885a1Found the VelSys PBZ-SA gooner.
>>65137170sorry, I don't get sexually aroused by armorI'm not one of you
>>65137169People either don't have a grip on how much things are actually worth or it's money laundering. Call it.
>>65137164In that case armor is useless unless you are gonna take a position. You want regular normal clothes, a rifle for 100+ meter shots and a concealable handgun for ambushing. If they can land shots on you its legit over for you.
>>65137174Oh so you're a NORMIE then? How do you propose stopping M855, M855A1, and 7.62x51 in a less than overt package without the chad VelSys PBZSA?
>>65137164Let's say you're a guerilla in Bolivia. Even in that case, as in Iraq, your most effective weapon is the IED or EFP. Or, these days, the DJI drone carrying an improvised explosive charge. And the most likely weapon used against you depends how many GTA stars you have. If they really want you, it could be an airstrike. Or it could be that they raid your trailer at 3:30am while you're asleep and aren't wearing any armor at all. And if you're trying to blend in, you should become le Gray Man.
>>65137169Post the listingI dare you
>>65137181NTA, but in that case roll a slick covert carrier under clothes and some plates under 0.6" thick. What you're talking about is precisely the kind of stuff SRTs and TSA/LTOs were made for.If you can rule out rifle threats completely and you're damn certain they aren't a problem, a Level II covert style vest will also work. This saves significant thickness and weight versus IIIA and only concedes faster 9x19mm / .44 magnum.
>>65137193lol, you deleted your EE post didnt you faggot
>>65137196You shouldnt be sticking around to get shot, you should always be ambushing and then breaking contact so you can actually escape.
>>65137186hoody or puffy jacket
>>65137199>just don't get shotthat's always the goal, the armor is for when shit goes wrong
>>65137199>gets shot by the counter-sniperoh no....
>>65137207If youre getting shot at that close you already screwed up and are dead.
>>65137209You screwed up long before getting shot then.
>>65137205And then run thicker plates under, I'm assuming? Not a bad idea, some people did that with Hesco 4600LVs way back when.What we need is a good line on "surplus" LSAPIs. 3.5lb standalone M80 + M855A1 + BZ API defeat in a less than overt package with up to 62mm BFD. 3x multi-hit, but 4" customary military shot spacing versus NIJ minimum 2". A plate like that is just about perfect for CONUS unless M80A1, M61, B-32 API, M2AP, or modern tungsten APs are in play.
>>65137218That's okay let me reload my last save
Clearly body armor general has enough posters and posts to survive on its own and stop shitting up /gq/.
Some of you guys should just go airsofting you'll get the larp fix you want without reality getting in the way.
>>65137227Then /gq/ dies dumbass.
>>65137231better to die with dignity
>>65137231/gq/ has been plenty alive without /bag/. If anything /bag/ has killed /gq/ because nobody else wants to post around literal 10 post walls of text as their posts disappear into the ocean of piss.
>>65137238So you'd rather kill /gq/ than contribute by talking about something else? Talk about bad faith man, damn.Hang on, let me help you with this. What's a good price for a Norinco 120 round AR drum? I wanna buy one but the prices seem jacked as fuck IMHO.
>>65137242>/gq/ has been plenty alive without /bag/The sliding off page 10 before /bag/anon redid the old infographic says otherwise. Thread was on life support like /nvg/ and /pfg/.>If anything /bag/ has killed /gq/ because nobody else wants to post around literal 10 post walls of text as their posts disappear into the ocean of pissJust talk about other shit then? I don't get this mentality where people can't talk about other stuff until the Armor Autist Alliance (AAA) stops fapping and goes to bed.
>>65137253>Just talk about other shit thenI fucking can't you illiterate troglodyte, your 10 posts of walls of text make everyone else's posts disappear into an ocean of piss.
>>65137256>I fucking can'tSkill issue.>your 10 posts of walls of text make everyone else's posts disappear into an ocean of pissThere's at least three armor autists active in this thread at the moment. Me, >>65135936, >>65135549. This is technical discussion, so yeah, it's long.I asked a question about a Norinco drum and I haven't gotten an answer. Is $300-400 too damn high?
I keep posting about gear and nobody engages, damn it. Body armor is pretty much the only thing keeping this general going.
>>65137288That, cloaks, and IIIA skirts. Honestly I blame the buffalo dipshit for fucking both /bag/ and /gq/. /bag/ lost its bunker discord, so /bag/'s home is now here. /bag/ walks /gq/'s streets. Wears /gq/'s skin. Lives among /gq/'s non-autistic people.
Okay, so the Norinco drum thing is a bust apparently. Back to regular programming.GILLIAM ARMS, formerly GILLIAM TECHNICAL SERVICES, formerly the ROUGE CROIX PERSUVIANT OF THE COLLEGE OF ARMS JOHN GUILLIUM in the JAHR 1639, has apparently decided to not discontinue the 1023, 8002, and 9969.$314 8.3lb standalone XSAPI+'s rated for rounds you'll never actually encounter are back on the menu boys.
>>65134632Is Esstac right?
>>65137327no
>>65137327changing up your kit frequently kills muscle memoryyou want mags, coms, and med to always be where you expect them
Ugh guys how can I shit in full kit I just annihilated the bathroom.
>>65137327Where the fuck is this from? It's hard to understand his argument without more context.
>>65137300I mean, part of it is that nylon gear is pretty boring. Making fun of Spiritussy, Agilite, and Ferro is too easy. Most of the other companies just sell the same old stuff they've been selling for years, like the 6094. > 6094 Gen 4. Now with Laser Cut MOLLE!!What is there to even discuss?
>>65137456I guess we could play the "is it Airsoft or not?" game.I'll start:> Tasmanian TigerAirsoft> Templar's GearAirsoft 100000%> LBXLiterally started as airsoft, but it has been completely legit and pretty damn good entry-level gear for years. > AgiliteUnfortunately not airsoft.
>>65137463You decide.>Condor>Idogear>Rebels Raiders>Dmgear>LA Police Gear>Yakeda
>>65137453https://esstac.com/daeodon-uni/Searched anons post about being laughed at and lead me here.Have anyone used any Esstac stuff ASIDE from their Kywi and shotgun cards?
>>65137456Yeah that's the thing. Armor is always advancing, albeit slowly, and there's significant new players every couple of months. Every few years the entire paradigm changes. What's old becomes new. What's new becomes old. That's why there is constant conversation. You can laser cut the MOLLE on a 6094 and that's... okay? Nothing that gives you an edge really. But a company comes out with an affordable IV++ rated for M993 and Swiss P? Hell yeah.
>>65137288Its a shame that we can't dronemaxx here because I think we'd get fucking partyvanned.
>>65137248>Norinco 120 round AR drum?I am seriously looking at the FN FiveseveN 50 drum and I don't even have a FiveseveN!
>>65137288I have an LED lantern!
>>65137268>at least threeI'M NOT AUTISTIC, I'VE BEEN TESTED!
>>65137484A2 was dronemaxxing pretty damn hard a thread or two ago. Only thing that gets you vanned is explosives, actual fedposting, or manufacturing AP ammo.>>65137488Ya mudda is a 5/7... after an absinthe frappe.
>>65137495Oh I'm a touch autistic, I won't argue otherwise.
>>65137338>noHow can we believe you if you don't convince us?
>>65137473>Condor>Idogear>Yakeda>LA Police GearAll four of these are in the "sort of yes, sort of no" box, because they ARE airsoft, but they're also used by broke security guards, trailer park denizens, clueless soldiers buying their own gear, etc. >Rebels RaidersToo niche and "hybebeast," basically just a social media brand >DmgearDefinitely Airsoft
>>65133097>>65133242So did you two fuck in the parking lot or what?
>>65137473>>CondorWorks on my machine.
>>65137506So Idogear is in the middle but Tasmanian Tiger, which is used professionally in EVROPA, is airsoft?
>>65137508I was the virtual winner, so I won.
>>65137491THAT LANTERN IS DEATH STRANDING UWU
>>65137519Did you record it on VHS? I can't afford a dvd player I need to save up for a Norinco drum.
>>65137513You'd have to be completely clueless or totally insane to use Tasmanian Tiger professionally. I guess you can lump it in with Condor and the rest: > It's mid-grade to low-grade airsoft gear, but they market it to a more serious audience and some poorfags and retards fall for it.
>>65137574>some poorfags and retards fall for it.Present!
>>65137579Fucking Europeans using AIRSHIT GEAR AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT FUCK YOUUUUUUU!>>65137574Can you point to an example of tasmanian tiger gear failing in use or is this another overblown "Holosun will fail, you need an aimpoint!" type aaaahhh?
>>65137670>Fucking Europeans using AIRSHIT GEAR AND GETTING AWAY WITH ITJokes on you, Europe hasn't had a war since WWII. Airshit keeps WINNING!
>>65137686Is this the Eurochad way? Airshit gear and MEHLER VARIO plates?
The trash sniper is alive and well again after a serious case of pneumonia. Go birds! What platforms do you guys recommend selling gear and adapters on? Tacswap? eBay?
>>65137708Welcome back philly trash sniper. tacswap. ebay sucks for sellers.
>>65137735Good to be back. Confirmed for fuck eBay. It’s a shame because it used to be so great. Haven’t had much luck via tacswap but going to give another shot. Large blowout soon, Stalker.
>>65137670There are accounts on various forums, and poor stitching is a regular complaint, but what really gets me are all of the absolutely shitty designs. TT have some plate carriers that are 10x worse than anything I've ever seen from Condor. SO MUCH AIRMESH! They're completely in love with the stuff. Really floppy shit-tier cummerbunds, too.>>65137695Foot molle.
>>65137735>ebay sucks for sellers>>65137773>Confirmed for fuck eBayI only buy from ebay. No issue, yet. Mayby some delayed ship times.
>>65137798Used to sell a lot on there but then the fees and PayPal issues made it a pain. Once upon a time. I used to control the market for surefire mr11 adapters. Also side note, I swear they made one for hi powers but I can’t find any evidence of this unless it was simply the mr07.
>>65137814>I used to control the marketThat is so cool! I fucked a chick who fucked John Prine, so I'm like famous, too.
I have a kore essentials leather belt as well as their two piece battle belt system. Im thinking of getting the riggers style belt from them. Any thoughts on why not to buy? Personally I love their click click ratchet system. I need it for my job, I'm a reservist on full time for the summer.
>>65137893Damn can I have your autograph
>Avon C50 for 600 from Avon>or 300 from ebayIs there any reason not to go the ebay route? Seller claims they're new and un-opened.
>>65137909Risk of chinesium. Risk of unknown storage and condition. No warranty. Probably fine. Wouldn’t risk it if you actually had to depend on it. Remember, to fit test. Get your banana oil compound, clean shave, etc. Alternatively, go full throttle with tear gas.
>>65137949How often are people selling chinese repros of gas masks on ebay?
>>65137904Have a brownie instead.
>>65138005There is a replica market for bdsm and airsoft. Sometimes there is overlap.
Any recommendations on a good range bag? Something decently sized, but not massive. I am tired of trying to fit all my shit in a backpack.
>>65137909Just buy an M40 or if you really wanna be cheap a Romanian M74, Israeli Civilian mask, or German M66. They all use 40mm NATO threads unlike the GP-5 and what not. The only "counterfeit" ones are the Chinese industrial masks, but they're nothing like most other gas masks and if they do that it would just be them sending you the wrong thing on purpose, not necessarily an imitation of a C50.
>German M66*German M65
>>65137773It is extremely easy to get fucked in the ass on ebay by dishonest buyers as a seller. There are also stoopid rules like no Level IV or above armor, no stolen military property, etc. Now these aren't enforced worth a shit, usually. Tacswap, gunbroker, armslist are closer to 50:50 even. Facebook marketplace has scammers out the ass but also works and there are active, actually pretty elite circles on there.>>65137775Confirmed. My TT vest's 'bund is floppy as shit. I was able to jury rig side plates but it needed zip ties to ride properly. ghetto as fuck but it works. The vest otherwise adequately supports heavy plates so it's acceptable for my uses.>>65138005Not too likely since you're gonna get kicked off for selling counterfeits real quick.
>>65136475>You can't trust Safelife but you should totally buy from Highcum the guys who gave us the 4sus4Anon, if you are going to make that argument you have to at least choose an alternative who hasn't had a scandal pushing garbage. >>65136715Safelife obviously doesn't compete with Safariland or PB but those aren't really accessible for normies. AFAIK, neither Hesco nor LTC sell soft armor. Stealth do have listed soft armor but their site is a bit of a mess right now. The listed AFC-T3A-525 is nowhere to be seen. The QCSquared 3-A is, as either a trauma pad, which is strange or in a LPAAC compatible cut. But only for pre order. Nothing about the specs are listed so hard to say how it compares.
>>65138292>Anon, if you are going to make that argument you have to at least choose an alternative who hasn't had a scandal pushing garbage.Highcom's soft armor is both NIJ-certified and FBI compliant. It's tested at a higher standard than Safelife's. The 4SAS4 sold between 2024-present is certified to no standard and behaves like a by-the-book bare minimum 0101.04 Level IV. Fine if guaranteed perfect condition, but if packaged improperly can be murdered by rough handling at the post office. Do not drop. Do not subject to M2AP higher than 2,880ft/s.The problem with the 4SAS4 is that Highcom misleadingly advertised it as an 0101.06 plate, Buffman did the 0101.06 drop test, it failed horrifically, and some anons were getting plates with workmanship defects and shitty rubbed off labels. You know what checks for workmanship defects? The NIJ.Highcoms exist in two camps. You have the 0101.04 legacy lineup which should actively be avoided and then the 0101.06 plates / panels, which are fine except for the 10x12 nominal sizing issue. Stick to .06 certified Highcoms and there's no issues. They otherwise enjoy a better reputation than Hesco or RMA, but Hescos beat them on performance:weight ratio.>Safelife vs SL and PBNot unless you buy used or "surplus" - which isn't hard. Do we disregard Ceradyne, BAE, Point Blank, certain Protechs, and a lot of Tencate because they don't sell direct to civilians either? Certainly not.>AFAIK, neither Hesco nor LTC sell soft armorThey don't, but that was more in reference to FRAS and Safelife's abysmal Level IV plate. If your ass is to the wall Highcom's new SP8 plate is preferable but I'd roll Gilliam 1023s or LAPGs before them at this rate.>Stealth's site is a messThey're redoing the lineup with the whole Dragonshit 2.5 launch.>The listed AFC-T3A-525 is nowhere to be seen. The QCSquared 3-A is, as either a trauma pad, which is strange or in a LPAAC compatible cut.My suspicion is cashflow issues.
>>65136475>Which is IMO directly the NIJ's fault because it took them thirty years and a dead cop or two to add conditioning testsbrutal
>>65132763Hantavirus is here. Better get your gear now before it gets too expensive.
>>65138606>GONNA GO BUY HESCO 4801s NEXT YEAR WITH HANTABUX LET'S GO !!!!!
>>65138606>Hantavirus is here.Hanta was always here. There is a Hopi Kachina called Warrior Mouse that represents how powerfull the common deer mouse is. It will eat all your food and poop and piss death. There is no cure for the Hanta, the Hanta is real. Oc.>where did they all go, batman?>nobody knows, robin
>>65138975>Hopi Kachina called Warrior MouseI once picked up a hitcher who was a kachina caver, aka a carver, who was working on Warrior Mouse. Like most 'skins, he was reservered about revealing anything regarding his animistic, idolatry based, heathen religion to The Round Eye. But a few sips of whisky later, the convo livened up. The Hopi, like the Zuni, Acoma and Laguna Pueblo tribes, are the "last man standing" from the Anasazi, Sinagua and Chacoan cultures. From Chaco Canyon, Mesa Verde and Wapatki ruins, and thousands of others, we see that "The Apocalypse" was already here. The rains stop, the fields wither, the battles are lost and there comes a time when the jewels cease to sparkle. When gold loses it's luster, the throne room becomes a prison. And all that is left, is a father's love for his child. Then you are dead.
>>65137909Look at the date on the C50 and ensure they arent dryrotted to shit
>>65139127This gear has lost it's luster and his mind has become a prison.
>>65138081https://elitesurvival.com/collections/range-bags/products/elite-range-bagIve used the medium version of this for 6 years, its held up fantasically.
>>65139126>Then you are dead.>I met a traveller from an antique land>Who said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone>Stand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand,>Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,>And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,>Tell that its sculptor well those passions read>Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,>The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:>And on the pedestal these words appear:>‘My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:>Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!’>Nothing beside remains. Round the decay>Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare>The lone and level sands stretch far away.”>ShelleyYou mouth breathers would do better to take a moment from your gaming and get some classical education, if only to find your useless hubris, vanities and ego are just dust, wind, dude.
>>65139191>My name is OzymandiasVast armies, tombs and wealth will not save you from the crucible of time. Time is the fire in which we all burn. To find youself, and live a self actualized life, is your only hope of happiness before dust, wind, dude.
>>65138312>Not unless you buy used or "surplus" - which isn't hard. Do we disregard Ceradyne, BAE, Point Blank, certain Protechs, and a lot of Tencate because they don't sell direct to civilians either? Certainly not.Considering I have Ceradyne, Protech and PB armor no not at all. But, and there's a big but. Soft armor isn't as cut and dry as plate sizing. Its not hard to search for a 10x12 shooters or SAPI M. But most soft armor outside of BLACS is sized for the user. I have several suplus cop vests and the sizing is all over the place. From mega twink to my 600 pound life. Its not really practical to tell an Anon to look for surplus Safariland Hardwire that's in good shape, a good price and also in his size. My used soft armor falls into two camps, cheap cop vests I can throw to friends if need be and I dont care about it fitting right. And collector's pieces. For my own use I buy new because its just not worth the hassle assuming you are an adult and have a real job. >Highcom stuffI know Anon, you don't have to explain history to me. I was here editing the damn guide while everyone argued over whether Highcom was dead to the community or not. >They don't, but that was more in reference to FRAS and Safelife's abysmal Level IV plate.I'm not going to defend Safelife's shit plates. They arent even listed so not worth consideration. >My suspicion is cashflow issues.I hope not. For all the problems with dragonskin I appreciate someone trying something different. In other news I recently had some custom panels made for a Tyr carrier by Shield Defense solution. They were patient working with me to make the panels and the price was really fair. The panels are PE and made in Poland. I dont know where the PE is sourced, could be Chinese. They also sent me a 6x6 test panel. I haven't shot it yet but when I do I will report back. They might be a good option for Anon's who need custom inserts.
>>65139285>I was here editing the damn guideThis too is dust in the wind. A meaningless blip on the cosmic radar of time. The universe is expanding and the sun is dieing, all is lost in the hourglass. All is illusion.
>>65139126>Then you are dead.>>65139229>dust, wind, dudeWhen you consider yourself as "The Cadaver", you are all still there. The DNA, the moisture, the organs, the blood, the brain; everything but The Energy. As all energy is definded: The potential for change. The "potential for change" in you is gone. That energy, your "soul", if you will, is gone (if you even had one to begin with). You will change nothing, effect nothing and in the end, leave only food for the worms. Your gear loses it's luster, your NVD ceases to glitter. This is your legacy.
>>65139285>But most soft armor outside of BLACS is sized for the user.From what I've seen, most anons actually prefer BALCS because it provides a turnkey solution for use with ICW plates and still provides robust soft coverage.>Its not really practical to tell an Anon to look for surplus Safariland HardwireHence why the recommended play is Highcom.>For my own use I buy new because its just not worth the hassle assuming you are an adult and have a real job.And this logic begs the question of why people are looking at Safelife. Hyperline is, relative to the rest of their lineup, rather expensive.>I know Anon, you don't have to explain history to me.The point was that the 4SAS4 debacle does not reflect on Highcom's NIJ cert, FBI compliant soft armor. Safelife has no FBI compliant soft armor. Contact shots are important. Everybody from DocGKR to /bag/ old guard to AlasdhairM has vouched for FBI compliance in the past.>I'm not going to defend Safelife's shit platesIt doesn't follow that Safelife's PE soft armor is good but their PE-backed plates are shit. Same supplier, right?NIJ really isn't a high mark for soft armor.>For all the problems with dragonskin I appreciate someone trying something differentBain's been trying something new for over thirty years man. If Dragonskin was worth serious consideration it would have serious end users by now. The new DS 2.5 sucks despite using Adept's SiC-TiB2.>Shield Defense solutionI've seen them around before. Good reputation but as you mention, PE, and UHMWPE doesn't do contact shots well. If the 6x6 tests well however I see no reason to keep them off rec lists.We really need a soft armor infographic.>>65139334Infographs are forever.
Also just for fairness' sake, here is Ngroat (CEO of Safelife)'s statement on their 5.8lb shit-ass Level IV plate.>The SLD hard plate is made in China but is of high quality and has excellent performance. It does have a foam boarder like most plates use to have but it’s not an inch. I believe that 1” claim just came from a competitor who made up lots of false claims. The one who said their product were 100% US made but was getting their materials direct from China...Said competitor is Stealth Armor Systems. He and Bain have beef going back years because Bain said FRAS was a knockoff of Dragonskin and a legal battle ensued. Groat won.>We do plan on coming it with some new hard plates in the future to meet the rest of our domestic lineup but man it’s hard to beat the price and performance in a meaningful way. We are experimenting with some very unique constructions that have been incredibly interesting. One is actually a 0 BFD plate not sacrificing weight or thickness. Shocked when that result was repeatable.No show since this was said four months ago.
>>65139584>From what I've seen, most anons actually prefer BALCS because it provides a turnkey solution for use with ICW plates and still provides robust soft coverage.I like BALCS too but keep in mind this discussion chain started with an anon asking for recommendations about level II or IIIa soft armor he could wear concealed all day. Most balcs panels and carriers aren't optimized for that. You can do it but most are designed with the intended use case as frag coverage and plate backer in an overt carrier. I think Anon's best option is actually a Crye LVS. Its not cheap but it meets all other requirements. Its available to normies and its very comfortable and concealable. >The point was that the 4SAS4 debacle does not reflect on Highcom's NIJ cert>It doesn't follow that Safelife's PE soft armor is good but their PE-backed plates are shit. So my problem here is you are giving Highcom grace that you arent giving Safelife. And thats a double standard. I dont think there is a problem with Highcom's soft armor. But I think the same applies to Safelife. It has an active cert and hasn't been pulled so there is no rational basis for thinking it doesn't perform as advertised. >And this logic begs the question of why people are looking at Safelife.I suggested it because the main consideration for concealed armor is concealability. And its one of the thinner options that is widely available to normies. So if your goal is not letting people know you are wearing armor, its worth consideration. Is it the best option? No but I am a believer in giving people options not just one answer. >I've seen them around before. Good reputation but as you mention, PE, and UHMWPE doesn't do contact shots well. If the 6x6 tests well however I see no reason to keep them off rec lists.Contact isn't a requirement for this because its for an overt vest with ICW plates. I have a PB eclipse with aramid panels as my concealed vest.
>>65139630>No showWhich only establishes and reinforces the fact that none of this matters, we are all just watching shadows on the wall of Plato's Cave. Captives in our own minds. Prisoners of our own worship of consumerism. Vagrants in the swirling destiny of time like so much flotsam in the maelstrom of life, pointless and doomed to anonymity.
>>65139630>Bain said FRAS was a knockoff of Dragonskin and a legal battle ensued. Groat won.It probably is but DS is so old whatever patents applied are probably expired. >Also just for fairness' sake, here is Ngroat (CEO of Safelife)'s statement on their 5.8lb shit-ass Level IV plate.At this point I assume all no name plates these days are chinese until proven otherwise. >No show since this was said four months ago.If he does he does. If he doesn't he doesn't. I don't really care much either way. There are good plate options as is. If they come up with something good then thats good but I'm not holding my breath. >We really need a soft armor infographic.Yall have made 500 infographics since I started the first one and there isn't a dedicated soft armor graphic?
/bag/ sucks, I hate this thread.
>>65139784>I hate this thread.>pinning your hopes, dreams and destiny on an intangible, anonymous underwater soccer threadThis is just another sign that we are all living in a dream, a masquerade of shadows and vapors, an imaginary diorama of bubbles and fiz before the stage of the universe. As proof, I sho you the map of all things you consider as "your reality", pin point your self and say HERE'S WALDO! YOU CAN'T. This is you, find yourself.
>>65139706>Anon's best option is actually a Crye LVS. Its not cheap but it meets all other requirements. Its available to normies and its very comfortable and concealable.Agreed. That's a strong but expensive option.>So my problem here is you are giving Highcom grace that you arent giving Safelife.There's no grace being given for two reasons. 1. Safelife's Level IV uses PE backing. Their soft armor uses hard PE. Apples to apples. The 4SAS4 uses fiberglass and there's a clear material difference between that and their soft armor.2. The 4SAS4 is an 0101.04 plate and behaves like one. Safelife makes no distinction as to what NIJ version they test to, which implies 0101.06 because it's current. Their IV and FRAS do not meet full NIJ .06 requirements going off the test reports. I bust RMA's balls on the 1165 for the same reason. There is no double standard here.>I think the same applies to Safelife. It has an active certbut no FBI compliance, high weight, and lackluster performance. Apples to apples, the rest of their soft armor is heavy as hell.>hasn't been pulled so there is no rational basis for thinking it doesn't perform as advertisedAs mentioned previously, FITs are infrequent and it can take years for bad models to get suspended. RMA 1155 took like seven or eight years, for example. Hesco's 4600 several years as well. When the NIJ falls short, you look to manufacturer reputation and past performance. Safelife only just got all their soft armor certified. FBI catches problems NIJ doesn't.>And its one of the thinner options that is widely available to normies.Yeah but it's heavy and isn't shown to stop contact shots. Going off SOCOM guidelines you're low vis at 0.35" and below so the panel being a little thicker than 0.19" won't kill you. Highcom SA3920 is also 0.19".>Contact isn't a requirement for this because its for an overt vest with ICW plates. In that case all well and good.
>>65139913>their soft armor uses hard PETypo, I meant soft PE here.
The typos we make, the regrets we have, turning left instead of right, marrying poorly, quiting prematurely, all the mistakes that add to out "trumas" are what make us who we are. Metal disorders like denial are the "cheat rings" that spare us from the suffering we deserve for the errors we make in life. The truest error is denying The Fact that we are anymore consequential than the sand at the beach, much less more individual that the grains themselves. In the end, we will amount to less, no one to spread their toes in or wipe us from thier feet. Just death and emptiness, sadness across the reat divide. Enjoy the regrets, errors and typos you make in life, that is all you truely own.
>>65139846Bear witness to the next evolution beyond Armor Autist. Bear witness... to the Plate Philosopher.We're fucked.
It's not all bad, I like tacos.
>>65139751>It probably is but DS is so old whatever patents applied are probably expired.And this is why DS remains niche. It's been around since 1997. In that same timeframe, LIBA has gone through three major generations. Bain has never even answered what makes his current Dragonskin different from the SOV-3000 which failed military trials nearly two decades ago. The lack of NIJ certification is telling.He shouldn't have been sitting on his hands like this if Nick is able to concoct comparable FRAS using basic components. Hesco and Highcom have the same issue - lack of innovation.>At this point I assume all no name plates these days are chinese until proven otherwise.A safe assumption. I've been saying for ages we're basically returning to the state of play in 2005. White label plates out the ass. Dragonskin. Level V plates (PM-12 this time). Cheat rings. Undersized plates. No drop foam, wew! 0101.07 has an easier drop test and half the multi hit versus .06 so a lot of plates are going to perform closer to .04 holdouts. Even Zylon is back, but Chinese this time.>There are good plate options as is. If they come up with something good then thats good but I'm not holding my breath.There's a market for a true 0 BFD Level IV like what he proposes. Hyperion, now owned by Safari Defense, still makes 10-hit B-32 API plates with no more than 15mm BFD. You know Hyperion's rep is in the shitter, but they apparently improved.>Yall have made 500 infographics since I started the first one and there isn't a dedicated soft armor graphic?Yeah... you wanna take this one?
>>65140358> Hyperion, now owned by Safari Defense, still makes 10-hit B-32 API plates with no more than 15mm BFD. You know Hyperion's rep is in the shitter, but they apparently improved.HahahahahahahaahhaaAhhhhHahahahahahhahaahahaHey, you in the market for a bridge? How about some oceanfront property in Nebraska?
>>65140401See that's the thing. New ownership, they enjoy a decent rep with Foreign Legion dudes, who have the audacity to avoid BATTLE STEEL from BOTACH, and as far as I've seen on the interwebs have never actually used the 4SUS4... and severely retracted performance claims. The Ukies take what they can get, but they are refusing garbage.The Ultra-6 for example is no longer a 30x B-32M API, 2x 7N37, .50 cal stopping turbo plate. It is rated for ten B-32 API, note not B-32M. It isn't even rated for 7N39, you need the heavier version for that.Classic square Alumina tile arrays, titanium backup strike faces, mystery meat PE backers. Not a complicated layup. Suspected cheat rings, though, and for whatever reason Ukrainians do prefer late model ESAPIs. I suspect because 7N26 / B-32M are a little outside a DSTU-6 plate's wheelhouse and Level IV is more suitable.ESAPIs are also the most proven plates of all time, so there's that. They probably get a nice performance boost from being used with DSTU-2 soft armor.
>>65140476The last time they made claims, their plates folded like wet cardboard in multiple tests. They're a joke m8.> It is rated for ten B-32 APIHow much you want to bet that this only happens when you hit the plates in a certain way, with no less than 2.25" between all shots, in a certain sequence, from upper left to lower right, and only under the light of the full moon in February?
>>65140517>The last time they made claims, their plates folded like wet cardboard in multiple tests. They're a joke m8I've seen the tests and I agree, but how do you reconcile that with them being well-regarded with volunteers there? Sorry to link plebbit:>Safari Defense: Reasonably priced titanium-ceramic composite rifle plates. They sell pouches/plate carriers.https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraineforeignlegion/comments/1cb0gku/a_hopefully_comprehensive_guide_to/>How much you want to bet that this only happens when you hit the plates in a certain way, with no less than 2.25" between all shots, in a certain sequence, from upper left to lower right, and only under the light of the full moon in February?They've said shot spacing is 30mm, which is actually super tight. However, the test reports I've seen only show 3x B-32 defeat, the base DSTU-6 requirement, and not the claimed ten.
>>65140524lol, you cut the last sentence of the comment on that Reddit thread:> Safari Defense: Reasonably priced titanium-ceramic composite rifle plates. They sell pouches/plate carriers. Do not buy them.Uh, "do not buy them" does not translate to "well-regarded."And that was two years ago, too. Before the plate we're talking about even existed, I think.
>>65140593Ah, but the op later clarified in the comments he was referring to the pouches and plate carriers!>And that was two years ago, too. Before the plate we're talking about even existed, I think.Hyperion has been around since before 2016 man. They're on the og /bag/ guide from 5-6 years ago. The ULTRA-6, 5, 4, etc have been around for the same.
>>65140614> Hyperion has been around since before 2016 man.You're conflating Hyperion with Safari Defense. Back then, and perhaps even today, they're not the same. Hyperion are among the biggest liars and false claim peddlers in the biz> Ah, but the op later clarified in the comments he was referring to the pouches and plate carriers!They can't even make a decent plate carrier.
>>65140631Hyperion and Safari Defense are the same company now. Safari apparently bought Hyperion. Behold, their website.>SAFARI DEFENSE, HYPERION SINCE 2014 https://safaridefense.com/broneplyty/>They can't even make a decent plate carrier.LAPG's are bad per A2 and yet their plates are surprisingly decent chinesium. Their edge to edge Level IV with the aramid backer actually mogs the Hesco 4403 at least in totally objective youtube affiliate testing. Totally different wheelhouses.Gilliam's carrier looks kinda jank too.
>>65139229>My name is Ozymandias
Here is Gilliam's carrier actually, the BIG and TALL.>GTS specializes in the development and manufacturing of ceramic armor plates. We have noticed a distinct industry need for quality plate carriers and vests that can retain the ceramic particulate that can eject from the ceramic strike face. Mediocre armor built with inadequate strike face elements that restrict ceramic particles can be mitigated through an extremely well-built carrier. Our upcoming GTS carrier will add three plies of 1680 ballistic Cordura to each plate pocket. This will help eliminate penetration of ceramic shards through the carrier fabric that can occur with poorly-built carriers or ceramic armor.>Specifically designed for 2XL-5XL operators who need proper fit and coveragehttps://www.gilliamarms.com/products/gts-plate-carrierYou know this whole spall capture thing would be handy for steel or titanium plates. They make aramid sleeves for that, though. Steel also sucks.
>>65140650> Hyperion and Safari Defense are the same company now. Safari apparently bought Hyperion. But if somebody says two years ago that Safari Defense is C-tier, that doesn't mean that Hyperion is C-tier. They're still F-minus-tier in my book.Also holy shit are they bundling plates with bottles of vodka!?!> https://safaridefense.com/titano-keramiichnii-bronepliti-dlya-bojiovogo-vikoristannya-6-klasy-plyashka-v-podarynok--%7C-vitrimyut-vlychannya-chergami/wtf?
>>65140677Are those ROC buckles?
>>65140679Time to bust out /bag/'s greatest weapon. The wayback machine. I went back to 2023 for you and Safari Defense was in fact Hyperion three years ago.https://web.archive.org/web/20230417204419/https://safaridefense.com/>Also holy shit are they bundling plates with bottles of vodka!?!Yeah it's so people can numb the pain after Rusanon's boys whip out Russia's last five rounds of 7N37 and blow their spines out from 400 yards.
>>65140682firefight edition
And Gilliam also changed the specs on the 9969 AGAIN. It is now 5.5lb and 0.9" thick, $1k a set, with drop protection. RF3 + light tungsten so I'm assuming M995. It is not a true 10x12 however, it is 9.9x11.9. You can also lose the drop pro to make it lighter.So it's now substantially lighter than the Adept Archon and mostly does the same thing at $160 less a set... although advanced small caliber tungsten AP, such as AP4, DVC-12, and 7N39 are not listed and therefore I assume are not rated.
>>65140717>So it's now substantially lighter than the Adept Archon and mostly does the same thing at $160 less a set... although advanced small caliber tungsten AP, such as AP4, DVC-12, and 7N39 are not listed and therefore I assume are not rated.Less a competitor to the Archon and more a total mogger of the 4800. Why would anybody buy a 4800 these days?
>>65140692> Time to bust out /bag/'s greatest weapon. The wayback machine. I went back to 2023 for you and Safari Defense was in fact Hyperion three years ago.If that's the case, aren't they responsible for the completely ridiculous Hyperion failures? Maybe some faggot on Reddit is just a retard or a liar?
>>65140739Depends on the model. I noticed they no longer carry the gray Type IV+ plate from one of the videos.>>65140732The 4800 is 0.6lb lighter chief and the 9969 is only rated for the easy mode 0101.07 drop, so they have the same problem. The test report is also from November 2025 when it was a lot heavier.
>>65140750> Depends on the model. I noticed they no longer carry the gray Type IV+ plate from one of the videos.top kek. Even if Hyperion had good test reports and videos I still wouldn't trust them. But they don't. Instead they're just saying "trust me bro, I've changed bro," and are literally shilling bundles with bottles of vodka.They've walked back their claims because they got embarrassed, but their plates are still shit-tier cardboard, for sure.
>>65140797Then would there not be reported failures as there were with Battle steel? Shouldn't reddit dude be getting ripped in the comments by foreign legion dudes who heard through the grapevine Hyperion sucks ass? >Even if Hyperion had good test reports and videos I still wouldn't trust themHey, at least they're upfront about the plate not being rated for shots closer than 10mm to an edge. RMA wasn't for years, and that was the full inch!>Instead they're just saying "trust me bro, I've changed bro,"But they have test reports on their site showing basic DSTU compliance?>and are literally shilling bundles with bottles of vodka.Which is based. Also you can put the plates and vodka on a payment plan, which is cringe.>They've walked back their claims because they got embarrassed, but their plates are still shit-tier cardboard, for sure.Or because the original guys were bullshit artists and Safari is trying to make something out of their bad investment? Why is a muzzle device manufacturer also selling plates?
>>65140819>Or because the original guys were bullshit artists and Safari is trying to make something out of their bad investment? Why is a muzzle device manufacturer also selling plates?But you've been saying that Safari were the original guys, though. Safari owned Hyperion when they claimed insane specs, but folded humiliatingly in multiple videos against threats well under their supposed rating. > Shouldn't reddit dude be getting ripped in the comments by foreign legion dudes who heard through the grapevine Hyperion sucks ass?Reddit. Anyway, I think we can conclude that Hyperion are shit and that nothing has changed. They've walked back some claims, but there's zero proof that their new claims are any more accurate than their old lies.
>>65140836>But you've been saying that Safari were the original guys, though. Safari owned Hyperion when they claimed insane specs, but folded humiliatingly in multiple videos against threats well under their supposed rating.No I'm saying Safari bought Hyperion out and discontinued the gray cover problem models and then walked back specs significantly.I don't see Safari owned Hyperion prior to 2023, but that's the limitation of the wayback machine.>Anyway, I think we can conclude that Hyperion are shit and that nothing has changed. They've walked back some claims, but there's zero proof that their new claims are any more accurate than their old lies.Test reports on their site? Granted, they're eastern euro documents and just show they meet basic DSTU.
>>65140836I'm also interested in why you aren't bugged by the 9969's test report situation. The plate used to be over 6lb. It is now 5.5lb. Test report is for the old version. Surely you don't lose that much weight without losing protection. That's more than the difference between a Hesco 4800 and CXP-800.
>>65140010>We're fucked.>two armoe plate PR Reps in a constant flame warWe were fucked before entropy took over the quantum physics of the universe, you just didn't know it. Ignorance is bliss, they say. And I would agree,, IF I DIDN'T ALREADY KNOW WE ARE DOOMED. AND THEY FUCKED UP SEASON 2 OF THE WITCHER! FUCK!
>>65140891Three armor plate autists! Not two!
>>65140882It's brand new? I suppose there will probably be a new report soon. If not, I agree that it is a concern.
>>65140895Sorry, bud. You count too, you are somebody and not just another grain of sand upon a beach that no one will ever clean you from thier toes. I WITNESS YOUR AUTISM!
>>65140908Well Gilliam usually has the test report ready before he releases the plate... which is standard industry practice. The 9969's report is three versions behind. The 9969 has gotten gradually lighter over the past half year.
GUYS I BOUGHT A 120RND NORINCO DRUM FOR $270 HOW DID I DO?
>>65140358>Yeah... you wanna take this one?I've got some time this weekend, I can assist. Do we have a current template?
>>65141072Excellent. I cleared out the Ukrainian Armor infographic for template purposes. I was thinking it would go like this: add a technical info box left side, FAQ box right side bottom, then split the infographic into three sections. Level II / HG1, Level IIIA / HG2, then a IIIA+. Each section would include recommended options. Cheap on the left, mid range middle, expensive stuff right.Include a code in the FAQ box, so NIJ = certified, FBI = FBI compliant, DEA = DEA compliant, LE = credential-blocked, then star for strong recommendation and a diamond if it's completely superior to everything else in its bracket.
>>65140934>HOW DID I DO?YOU PAID $2.25/RND FOR CAPACITY!!Compared to a nice 30 rnd AK mag for $15/ea @$0.50/rnd for capacity, you didn't do too well. Consider, you would only need 4 3rnd mags to equal the capacity of your drum. 3 mag changes, not a big deal. THAT SAID!! With the oncoming wave of FRT MADBESS a drum will smoke your bbl! So you may have beat the pending drum feeding frenzy! Feel good about yourself and your life choices, you are a child of the universe and a special and unique jewel to behold. We all respond to your joy!
Also posting this just for reference's sake. Pinnacle Armor, the makers of DragonSkin between 2000-2013, developed an extended NIJ scale. They had IIIA+ and IIIB ratings (then eventually a IIIB+) for extra strength soft armor. The IIIB was rated for KTW metal-piercing shit from the 1980s, along with steel-core 7.62x25 and other threats plus 12 gauge slugs within NIJ 44mm. IIIB+ IIRC was just the same at increased velocity. Way back in the 1980s there was a scare about THV (tres haute vitesse) "cop-killer" bullets and there was then very briefly a "IVA" industry rating. I've only seen hard plates made by British mfg Tetranike with that requirement, but allegedly soft armor existed. It's been forty years though and I'd be surprised if many of those panels resurfaced.This is an urban legend, but allegedly Second Chance developed a soft armor panel in the very early 00s using Zylon which could withstand 7.62x39 MSC at standoff. Roughly 100-150 meters. Obviously a non-starter, because Zylon.As for the infographic, I think it would be a good idea to split 0115.00 stab armor into its own infographic, although adding a 'STAB-1, 2, 3' code would be beneficial since a lot of IIIA+ panels like Safelife's are stab rated. I'm just spitballing.
>>65141111CHECKEDBut it looks fucking awesome. The truth is...That Norinco drum will be so lonely. All the other magazines are scared of it. Noone talks to it. Noone wants to be its friend-- They think it is unreliable. Norinco sent it from port to port committing import-export fraud in their name. And as they get better at it, customs and border protection takes it up the ass more and more. China is a victim of their own success. 120 Round AR-15 Drum. It don't even get a real name, only a purpose. It is capable of so much more and noone sees it. Some days it feels so heavy it could cry, but it don't. It just takes five hours to reload. Because what would be the point? Not a single gear queer in the entire universe would care. Fuckyamudda.
>>65141128>All the other magazines are scared of it. Noone talks to it. Noone wants to be its friend-- They think it is unreliable.The song remains the same; https://youtu.be/51BQfPeSK8k?si=fFWIjlK5BUCGg6S1
>>65141140>the workout song I need to prepare for my 120 round drum's arrival.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwvnLDjbfTMme in a week after the post-purchase clarity kicks in and I realize I just spent $270 on a single fucking magazine WHAT AM I DOING?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9jXfCoy2kQI just spent $270 on a drum. That's... almost as much as what I spent for a pair of Protech 2230s.
>>65141173>I realize I just spent $270 on a single fucking magazineA man has to know his limitations.
>>65141186Those are rookie numbers. Do you want to go to bed tonight knowing you lost, that you're a loser? Don't you want to make the other guy a loser? I make other men losers all the time. People show up and talk to me and they're all "Donald you completely sniped that guy on gunbroker ahahaha" - It's up to you, who wins and who loses. Be a man about it.
This is the best body armor general thread of all time
What would yall suggest here? I’m wanting a pistol belt for the range. Something easy on/off that doesn’t require threading though belt loops or messing with Velcro. Also probably going to need some sort of universal mag pouch. Not sure if it’s worth trying g to juggle multiple pistols or if I should eBay max and get a bunch of 56/alice belts and call it.
>>65141243what about that one that ass fags shills all the time?
>>65141243https://www.a1gearllc.com/products/slim-grip-padded-belt-slotted-15Here, fuck you, also you're a retard.>Trying g to juggle multiple pistolsYeah, why have mags when you can just carry 4 pistols, like a gay pirate?
>>65141197>Be a man about it.Precisely. A man with depth of characther, a man with integrity, does not get caught up in a patty bid war. He knows his limit and what the value vs payout is. This is being a winner, following your conscience and moral compass, not petty whims or gratuitous, immediate gratification. A True Winner.
>>65141253Be like Leon Kennedy. Carry a poodle gun with really easy to scavenge ammo and then a huge fuckoff revolver you save for the bosses.
>>65141262I don't want depth of catheter, Plate Philosopher. Now I come to you asking questions. There's this man, from Columbia, and he fucking sucks. What happens if I buy an expired RMA 1189 from Botach and I shove it up his ass? Will the cheat ring compress so it fits?
>>65141282>man, from ColumbiaBenito Musolini was not from Columbia, his gramgram was.
I was browsing desuarchive again and came across another vaporware plate discussed in 2022. Some "unofficial" info from an apparent insider with Adept.>>56430304>"A 4lb level III that stops M995?">~3 lb actually... though might end up being icwAllegedly used sintered boron carbide-titanium nitride hybrid ceramic that Diamond Age developed. Sounds like it was in development and then shelved, like the 4.5lb Adept Level IV teased on reddit roughly around the same time. B4C-TiN ceramic was likely the ticket for both. The weights are turbo light but doable if you can thin the strike face versus a "normal" B4C plate. My guess is this ceramic cannot be manufactured at scale, reliably, and/or at a good price... otherwise the larger ceramic manufacturers would already be in on it.
>>65141575So a nothing. Thanks for pointing that out from 2022. Is this where some snark says>cool story bro
>>65141096Alright I'll get a draft up. I expect the usual bickering over details and we'll need to get consensus on recommendations.
>>65142378Or there's the possibility Adept developed it and just never released it for public sale, as many armor manufacturers do.Alternatively you're right and it's just another vaporware Diamond Age / Adept product.>>65142441Excellent, much appreciated.
>>65141173That's why you have to give yourself time to think over a purchase over a certain amount. That way you can still do impulse purchases but don't feel bad about draining your bank account.
>>65142502>Adept developed it and just never released it for public sale,Probably just classified it and sold to the Men in Black.
>>65142510In all honesty it's probably just vaporware like the polycrystalline diamond 2.2lb M855 plate and the sub-4lb PCD Level IV.Three years and... nothing. Adept doesn't have any known professional clients except the Men in Black looking to stop 7N24.
>>65142506A fine idea. I have the cash, that isn't the issue. I was just having post purchase clarity on the OTHER things $270 could be spent on.I will nonetheless enjoy my baller drum mag when it arrives.
>>65142610Drum mags are always fun to break out for occasions, if its not too janky you now have an excuse to get a FRT.
>>65142615I did my homework beforehand and the Norincos are apparently the most reliable provided any burrs in the metal are worked out and you load them properly.Something about them just speaks to me aesthetically, pity they're a bitch to get post-94.
>>65142615>you now have an excuse to get a FRT.Listen here cockaroach. I do this, I will get kicked out da door at every fookin fudd range in da area. I will say, say hello to my little friend, and the 75 year old senator's son who skipped out on Vietnam will say, say hello to da fuckin' door ya fuck.I don't give a shit. For all I know, those dumb fudds got my friend angel Fernandez killed when they let that 85 pound blonde handle the .500 Smith & Wesson and it flipped up in her hand, blew her head, and went into angel's head, but that's history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J28ttTFYVrw
Another plate for the vaporware pile. According to some armor autist in 2021, Hesco had a secret LV plate above the U210 just north of 3lb, effectively a "pared-down 4800LV."The funny thing is that the U210 / U211 already use boron carbide, same as the 4800LV. If there was a secret LV plate ABOVE them, it would have to use an exotic ceramic (AlMgB14 or B6O) and there would be a corresponding extremely expensive 4900 Level IV using said ceramic.Hesco can make any of their plates however in an "LV" fashion, either ICW IIIA or just goes over 44mm BFD versus rated threats, so a U210LV would be "just north" of 3lb assuming it's the ICW IIIA version, but then it would be heavier than the U210 altogether with soft armor.
>>65142441To help you out, here's the IIIA+ stuff I've found so far. As you know, there's no IIIA+ official requirement so this is complete grab-bag, caveat emptor and I'm totally fine with Safelife being in this category since a lot of the better options are credential-blocked.>Safelife: Liberty Civil Defense 9mm & FN 5.7×28 40gr, Stab 1 0115.00, 1.54ft/lb2.>Botach: Only comes in plate backer forms. 5.7x28 29gr SS195, 40gr, and 7.62x25 95gr FMJ. This is closest to Pinnacle IIIA+ from 2008. About 1.7lb/ft2 which is terrible. Also listed "select rifle threats" but it's Botach so I don't trust that.3. Sketchy-ass 1.05lb/ft2 panels from Sword & Shield Strategic, who I've never heard of so I'm dismissing these.4. Militech's stab multi-threat soft armor is 38 layers of Aramid UD while their IIIA is 26, so that's an appreciable increase in strength. Stab 2, but no extra listed threats above IIIA.5. United Shield Virtus, NIJ cert as IIIA and rated for Liberty 50gr at 1,999ft/s and SS197 at 1,600ft/s. 1.3lb/ft2 and 0.35" thick. We might have a winner here but it's... credential-blocked.6. Even bigger winner. United Shield Airius. Liberty 50gr at 2,026ft/s, SS195 at 1,859ft/s. 0.83lb/ft2 and 0.22" thick. Credential-blocked at Ray O'Herron. This seems like the bee's knees for 50gr Liberty protection.https://www.oherron.com/united-shield-airius-iiia-concealed-undervest-body-armor.htmlMy rationale for a IIIA+ section is that IIIA is really easy to pop and the ammo necessary to do it is very easy to get. Also, using stronger than required soft armor behind an ICW (or standalone) plate will increase the rating. Not by a whole lot, but it can bail you out if things are a little hotter than expected.I would not be surprised if a Hesco 3811 for example picked up at least carbine-length barrel M855A1 protection when backed by very stout soft armor.
Also interesting plate backers from OmniProtex.Buffman tested their "Elite IIIA", which I can confirm is NIJ certified, and it put on a pretty decent show actually.Now they've gone higher, with an Ultra HG2+, rated for the table in pic related. I am very impressed by the 2200ft/s Liberty 50gr rating for the Ultra. Elite is $300/set, Ultra $450/set.https://omniprotex.com/collections/backpack/products/opx-elite-ultra-soft-sapi-armor-iiia-nij-hg2?variant=45654540124322Wonder if they'll do BALCS or concealable vest-style, special order.
And it turns out they do in fact make the Elite and Ultra in regular soft armor cuts. Huzzah.That's enough for the IIIA+ section, me thinks. For reference, the OPX Ultra has a ~150ft/s v50 advantage on Safelife's IIIA+ versus Liberty 50gr and is much lighter.
>>65143232>>65143072Any idea if any of these will stop a 7.62x39mm out of a mini-Draco or M193 from a 10.5" barrel?Also WHY are they all cock blocked? Anybody can buy plates, and tons of civvies own ESAPIs, but soft armor is too dangerous for them to own?
Does anyone have any strong opinions on Novasteel helmets? They seem like a good value purchase to me but I’m retarded so there might be something I’m missing.
>>65143513Those are both out-of-spec. The OPX Ultra is able to defeat subsonic 220gr .300 Blackout under 1100ft/s, but velocity is just one of the main factors to killing soft armor. M193 out of a 10.5" should be going 2,700ft/s. 7.62x39 out of a 7.5-7.75" should be somewhere under 2,000, so still too quick.The pistol rounds these do stop around 2,000-2,200 have piss poor sectional density and projectile geometry / design compared to actual rifle rounds.>Also WHY are they all cock blocked? Anybody can buy plates, and tons of civvies own ESAPIs, but soft armor is too dangerous for them to own?Same reason you couldn't buy M993 plates above table until recently.
>>65143521They seem to perform well, and they're not that heavy. My dream is to buy a tan one with a mandible and paint it in Imperial Fist livery.
>>65143542How heavy do you think they'd need to be? 2psf? A Hesco 3800 is around 2.9 or something like that, I think.
>>65143552>How heavy do you think they'd need to be? 2psf?Rule of thumb dating back to the armor dark ages is that M193, out of a longer barrel than 10.5", will pierce ~200 layers of basic kevlar. A basic IIIA panel is about 35. Modern soft armor materials are a lot more efficient and that number will come down, but the panel still needs to be extremely beefy. Scaling off the numbers for a 10.5" AR or a mini-draco loaded with 7.62x39 MSC, I would reckon a 2.5x thicker version of the OPX Ultra could do both to your requirements. Napkin math says 3lb / 0.675" thick and $563 a panel (3.2psf), and that's vastly below spec compared to NIJ RF1. Still comparable to very early non-flexible PE plates from the 1990s.Second Chance had a prototype Zylon 7.62x39 MSC at 100-150 meter standoff panel, allegedly, in the early 00s but Zylon was about 13-20% more efficient, going off Zero-G Black Diamond - which was the best at the time, than all but the very best modern PE... provided it didn't get exposed to the sun or water or sweat or the mere passage of time. Going off the above numbers a hypothetical modern Zylon panel would be 2.56psf to meet your reqs. Better, but still damn heavy for soft armor.>A Hesco 3800 is around 2.9 or something like that, I think.PE is MUCH more weight-efficient when adhered / pressed into a non-flexible plate than as a flexible panel. Hesco 3801 is the latest, lightest white-side Level III PE plate and it's 1.88lb, stopping 7.62x39mm MSC at 2,390ft/s or M193 at 3,150ft/s, or 7.62x51mm M80 up to 2,800, six times. Hell of a lot better than the hypothetical IIIB++ soft armor described above.
>>65143636>Hesco 3801 is the latest, lightest white-side Level III PE plate and it's 1.88lb, stopping 7.62x39mm MSC at 2,390ft/s or M193 at 3,150ft/s, or 7.62x51mm M80 up to 2,800, six times. Hell of a lot better than the hypothetical IIIB++ soft armor described above.Yeah and looking at it I don't think that the IIIB++ would even be flexible at all. It would be very thick and about as flexible as a phone book.Sucks because protection from:> all handguns> dracos> cut-down AR-15s Is probably ideal for "urban use" armor.
>>65143521I'll give you pros and cons, cons first:>CONS1. Manufacturer (Adept) is on the shady side. Ten years in the armor industry and not one thing is certified w/ NIJ. Nobody even knows where they source materials from. Available evidence says China - which isn't a knock, because Chinese armor has SIGNIFICANTLY improved in the past ten years, but I'd like to know why they're evasive with that.2. The test report on their site is for blunt impact protection. They're short an actual ballistic test report. Also the helmet in said test report was 3.28lb as the M/L and the advertised L/XL is 2.85lb. This is a reoccurring issue with Adept. The Colossus is also heavier than advertised and they do nominally size their plates.3. It's VPAM PM-3, so you're short .44 Magnum, which is a PM-4 threat pursuant to pic rel.4. A GEN-II ACH is lighter and comes from manufacturers with far more proven track records.5. Other proof the helmet works is limited. Oxide phoned that review in and most of the other stuff is manufacturer testing.>PROS:1. BFD is extremely low, we're talking well under 10mm versus rated threats.2. You can pierce an ACH with a cheap crossbow from Cabelas, because a crossbow is technically a "super-stab" threat with how soft armor materials work. You cannot pierce the novasteel with said crossbow. I guess if you got medieval long polearms could maybe get through an ACH. Would be interested in seeing testing on that.3. It's cheap, but ACHs can also be cheap on fleabay and other sites.
>>65143675>Also the helmet in said test report was 3.28lb as the M/L and the advertised L/XL is 2.85lb.I think that the 3.3 pounds is for the ACH version, the high-cut is 2.85. > 3. It's VPAM PM-3, so you're short .44 Magnum, which is a PM-4 threat pursuant to pic rel.I'm not aware of any normal helmets actually being "rated" for .44 Magnum. The Ops-Core FAST SF, which isn't even THAT much lighter, is only rated for 9mm FMJ at 1195 fps. > https://shop.gentexcorp.com/ops-core-fast-sf-next-generation-headborne-system/Under "characteristics, coverage, and weight"Some helmets will stop .44 Magnum but with insane BFD numbers, like >40mm in the last thread.> GEN-II ACHeBay doesn't even have one of those right now, just regular old ACHs.
>>65143661>Yeah and looking at it I don't think that the IIIB++ would even be flexible at all. It would be very thick and about as flexible as a phone book.Agreed. Sadly, this armor actually would have been a thing if Zylon wasn't a fuckup to the point more than 100,000 vests were recalled. UHMWPE has made great strides between 2000 to now. Realistically, with the same level of R&D but into PBO fibers like Zylon, we would be looking at Zylonwire-46 instead of Hardwire-57 as the lightest IIIA panel, and it'd be a stronger panel to boot.This would also pay dividends for hard armor plates. A Hesco 3801 with Zylon instead of PE would be a pound and a half. Hesco 4800 in the 4.5lb range. A hard armor plate meeting your reqs would be a pound or less.>Sucks because protection from: *stuff* Is probably ideal for "urban use" armor.Given the added coverage of soft armor, certainly. This IIIB++ would also crank up overall protection massively versus basic IIIA when used behind hard armor plates. Buffman got an XSAPI to stop Swiss P AP, in soft armor, when backed by IIIA (cheap shit at that) instead of milspec sorta-kinda II but with frag. Swiss P AP is VPAM PM-12, M993 (XSAPI threat) is only PM-11. That's major.
>>65143699It's sad that our IIIB++ needs something like Zylon to make it real
>>65143685>I think that the 3.3 pounds is for the ACH version, the high-cut is 2.85.It's the same weight number on both pages, so it's anyone's guess. Adept tends to lowball weights though.>I'm not aware of any normal helmets actually being "rated" for .44 Magnum.The tricky bit is that IIIA doesn't officially exist for helmets. NIJ 0106.01 hasn't been updated since the early 80s and IIIA wasn't a rating until 1985 with 0101.02. My Ceradyne BA3A for example is a "IIIA" pursuant to pic related and finished shell weight is 2.6lb, one size fits most. You can buy these for less than $100 used. Busch, Protech, etc all also rate their stuff IIIA but to their own numbers, so you must check spec sheets.>The Ops-Core FAST SF, which isn't even THAT much lighter, is only rated for 9mm FMJ at 1195 fps.Certainly a valid critique of that helmet. Basic old ACHs from MSA stop 9x19mm at 1,450ft/s with sub 12mm BFD.>Some helmets will stop .44 Magnum but with insane BFD numbers, like >40mm in the last thread.That was Jinwudun, which is sub-Militech chinesium. They use cheap-ass materials for their armor and it shows, but the stuff does "perform.">eBay doesn't even have one of those right now, just regular old ACHs.That won't be a problem, even the regular old ACH is 3lb.I find it telling that AR500, which partnered with Adept back when it was Diamond Age to develop their own Militia steel helmet (the Militia and Novasteel are more or less the same helmet), dropped said steel helmet in favor of a $1,000 composite one.
>>65143699>Given the added coverage of soft armor, certainly. This IIIB++ would also crank up overall protection massively versus basic IIIA when used behind hard armor plates.It would also improve performance against fragments, which is pretty important.
>>65143712That, or approach it from the opposite direction. Make flexible rifle rated ceramics like Dragonskin, Verco, or Hexar lighter by using novel ceramics instead of the basic three.Then thin said ceramics until they're only rated to your urban threat matrix in >>65143661. I'd go north of that just to be safe, since M855 is saucier than M193 versus ceramics and green tips are popular in urban areas. This route gets you flexibility but it will cost a fortune, since anything more advanced than your usual hot-pressed B4C is big money.Chinese are working on B4C-TiB2, Adept was working on B4C-TiN but stopped that in the past few years. Chinese are also working on AlMgB14-TiB2, which is supposed to be phenomenal per pic rel.The problem however is that "scalar" armor is always north of monolithic plates in terms of weight. Improvements possible because of new materials will be twofold for conventional plates.
>>65143718> IIIASome companies test their helmets for "ballistic resistance" to .44 Magnum, like in your pic, but I don't think that they test or report BFD?> That was Jinwudun, which is sub-Militech chinesium. They use cheap-ass materials for their armor and it shows, but the stuff does "perform."Hey Jinwudun is a /gq/ favorite, lolHas any Western brand ever reported helmet BFD vs. .44 Magnum? >I find it telling that AR500, which partnered with Adept back when it was Diamond Age to develop their own Militia steel helmet (the Militia and Novasteel are more or less the same helmet), dropped said steel helmet in favor of a $1,000 composite one.This was discussed here a long time ago and I think that it was contract/noncompete related or something like that.
>>65143719Preformed larger fragmentation, yeah. Also would be helpful if handgun "super APs" like VTUVMs, DM91, MDPs, GEA Cyclones, 7N31, or Libra Snails reappear. The stuff these IIIA+ panels are rated for is baby shit compared to those. Tungsten-core 9x19mm like DM91 will actually pop PE rifle plates like the RMA 1003 out of a subgun.>pic rel, cops in the year 2040 with IIIB++
>>65143753Honestly it would look SO COOL
>>65143736>Some companies test their helmets for "ballistic resistance" to .44 Magnum, like in your pic, but I don't think that they test or report BFD?>Has any Western brand ever reported helmet BFD vs. .44 Magnum?Fortunately, since the threats are generally constant and helmet materials are generally similar to those used in pistol armor, we can use soft armor to proxy! Pic rel shows Safelife's HG2 (IIIA) with BFD for both .357 SIG and .44 Magnum. Average 27mm for SIG, 37mm for .44 magnum. The SIG proxies for 9x19mm decently because velocity is only 30ft/s faster, and projectile is 125gr versus 124gr in MSA ACH's case.Thus .44 magnum produces about 40% more BFD than 9x19mm using cheap UHMWPE. Aramid produces less BFD than UHMWPE usually, hence why the GEN-I ACH puts on a way better show than Safelife's soft armor.VPAM regulates helmets with 25mm max BFD, with transfer speed also accounted for, same deal as plates. If we're in VPAM territory I'll defer to them saying it's fine.>Hey Jinwudun is a /gq/ favorite, lolThe funny thing is that I brought them and Gilliam up (yeah, I'm the Jinwudun IIIA kilt guy) first as potential options and now I'm the one saying they're doing iffy shit. How the tables turn. Then again, nobody in the armor industry is really clean.>This was discussed here a long time ago and I think that it was contract/noncompete related or something like that.What I remember is AR500 got ridiculed for the helmet (I mean it looks like a toy honestly) and Jake (Adept) cut ties because he didn't know AR500 had a shitty industry reputation, despite being an undisputed elite armor autist. I don't know how that happened.>noncompete related or something like that.Novasteel and Militia were sold concurrently for some time, IIRC. I don't think there was a non-compete.
>>65143736>>65143781>IN WHICH I FORGET TO ATTACH THE RIGHT PIC RELOkay, this is the actual pic related showing Safelife's BFD numbers. Part of the tricky business is that .44 Magnum is a poor penetrator generally. In fact, a lot of Level II panels will stop it, but they run over 44mm BFD.Nonetheless, pic rel numbers show the BFD difference isn't actually that huge, and we're talking flexible PE versus aramid helmets with much tighter numbers.
>>65143786>Nonetheless, pic rel numbers show the BFD difference isn't actually that huge, and we're talking flexible PE versus aramid helmets with much tighter numbers.I mean the difference is like average 26mm (9mm) vs. average 37mm, with one shot over 42mm. That's actually a pretty big difference. But is there anything in helmets, though? I think most helmet companies would be scared as shit to post >40mm BFD in a helmet when the ACH limit is between 12mm and 25mm.
>>65143794>I mean the difference is like average 26mm (9mm) vs. average 37mm, with one shot over 42mm. That's actually a pretty big difference.The point is more to show there's a 40% average difference. .44's got a major mass and energy advantage but it's also wider and the SJHP the NIJ wants mfg's to use isn't conducive to piercing armor. NIJ selects threats for specific reasons. .44 is a BFD check. As a result, IIIA panels should post lower BFD than IIA or II which means reduced BABT. However, IIIA also mandates a faster 9mm velocity versus those two. About 150ft/s difference between IIIA and II, so it's not apples-to-apples.>That's actually a pretty big difference. But is there anything in helmets, though?I did some looking and actually no, not really. Everybody mostly posts their 9x19mm results unless you get into VPAM territory, then that's actually regulated and measured.Part of the problem is that there's also no standardized way to even measure helmet BFD. Adept also doesn't strictly abide by VPAM either (see how they used to market the Colossus as PM-12 but it pisses way over 25mm BFD against Swiss P AP) so you can't trust their numbers completely either.It's a steel helmet though, so yeah, it will have a BFD advantage. Problem however is that it's PM-3 and not PM-4, so it loses under VPAM standards to .44. Maybe other helmets do, too, in which case that factor is a wash.>I think most helmet companies would be scared as shit to post >40mm BFD in a helmet when the ACH limit is between 12mm and 25mm.Jinwudun seriously doesn't give a shit. These B-list Chinese companies offer fun stuff but damn do they play fast-and-loose. No test report on their 5.8lb Level III though. Now that is something I'd like to see. Really it's no different than making a plate rated for .50 BMG, you just scale the plate to the threat. The question is whether Jinwudun can do that correctly.
>>65143818>5.8lb Level III5.8 pound Level III helmet? The fuck?
>>65143829You want one? $800.https://jinwudun.com/products/jwd-level-iii-bulletproof-helmet-m88-helmet-15m-defense-7-62-51-m80-bullet-pe-materialNow the thing you really gotta watch with Jinwudun is that they have fucky velocity ranges. For example, their Level IVs are not true IV. They are rated for M2AP at about 2,800 instead of up to 2,910. I believe this is because they're not actually shooting their plates with M2AP, they're using much more commonly available (over there) 7.62x54R Type 53 API. Type 56 (which is like B-32 API) does sorta-kinda proxy for M2AP at 2,800. Side note, historically M2AP out of a .30-06 had a velocity between 2,715-2,800 or whereabouts. NIJ is technically testing it using low .300 winmag velocities.Similarly, their Level III spec IS:>800-850 m/s (about 2600-2800 FPS).Instead of NIJ's 2,780ft/s+-30. 2,600 or 2,810 is a huge difference. For a Hesco 4403 or 4800, the difference between life and death is only ~30ft/s going off >>65135314. 200ft/s velocity range? fuck outta here.>and it gets worse!And despite their Level III+ plate only being rated for slow M80, it is 0.75" thick and weighs six pounds. It is rated for M855... 7.62x39mm MSC... and M193 on top of M80. It literally weighs more than a Protech 2120-5 rated for M855A1 six times, using Alumina and fiberglass. This is what I mean when I say Jinwudun uses shitty materials. How does a SiC+PE plate otherwise get mogged by a fiberglass 1980s throwback?This reflects on their helmets as well. PE is PE, albeit processed differently.
Ulbricht might post numbers. One of a handful of helmets that probably wouldn't give you a TBI from a 44 mag, not that I'd sign up...
>>65143848uh it sounds like these guys might be interested in making our IIIB++
>>65141207I popped in because my LTCs purchased from Hoplite during the summer of love are out of warranty now, my brain is full of fuck
>>65143860Did you throw them out the window or run over them with your truck? No? Then they're probably fine.
>>65143851There are others. Ulbricht is solid though. Their titanium hybrid helms are neat. At the bottom of pic rel are excerpts from Ceradyne and ARES Armour (Tencate's French division way back in the day) discussing ceramic helmet appliques. Tencate actually had a Level IV overhelmet applique more than two decades ago.Final helmet weight (1.4 + 3kg for max coverage) is 9.68lb. If you wanted what I assume is just a basic frontal SLAAP-style then 5.72lb. Ceradyne had hot-pressed B4C stuff up to 7.62x51mm M61 AP, which is like diet M2AP and is below B-32 API.I would also maybe turn to some of the newer Russian assault helmets good up to 7.62x54 LPS, since GOST has a stronger focus on BFD than even VPAM, but they cross the 10lb mark often. They recommend neck exercises and not turning your neck. Turn your body to turn your head comrade.>>65143857I'd nominate Gilliam since he does do custom work and he has started making PE soft armor. It's import white meat PE though.https://www.gilliamarms.com/products/custom-kommando-store-strelka-defender-2-soft-armor-panels>>65143860Unless they're 26605s you should be okay. Those have a still unexplained double NIJ suspension (suspension, reinstatement, suspension, reinstatement) and were quietly discontinued just recently.
>>65143881>They recommend neck exercises and not turning your neck.
Also here's a neat excerpt on 9x19mm MDP all-brass bullets from the 1980s. I've heard of these before and the numbers check out, although I'm miffed by the claim MDP cleared an armor plate (I presume steel) that M193 lost to. It's just 9x19mm 85gr out of a 5". Maybe something novel with penetrator geometry or our dude here is mistaken and there's a tungsten core involved, then I could see that.Anyways, strong 9x19mm AP will clear IIIA several times over. This brass stuff isn't even the real hard shit. If you want comprehensive pistol protection in the event serious AP shows up in the future (maybe Dagny Dagger gets its head out of its ass) you have to turn to ceramic rifle plates. Stiletto Systems has a tungsten 5.7x28mm which is supposedly brutal but fortunately stays where it belongs, in Ukraine. Ditto for Russia's tungsten 9x19 7N31M.
>>65143881They are indeed 26605s. Shid.
>>65143889How about a helmet that weighs six kilograms?
>>65143898Odds are they're PROBABLY fine but I dunno if probably is good enough for you. They left the NIJ CPL in good standing but there was never any explanation for why they got suspended twice. Could have been minor workmanship issues like a bad label or a torn cover, or could have been serious ballistic issues and LTC, as arguably the largest body armor manufacturer in the US and de facto SOCOM's main squeeze for plates, just muscled the NIJ. If it was minor shit then an explanation should have been easy. Probably a good time to hit up the list in >>65132790. I'd stay away from the Hesco 4403 since you're trading one problem for another given its low conditioned v50 versus M2AP. Protech 2230 completely murders it but those are getting hard to find. You can't go wrong with the Hesco 4601, unless you have IV+ requirements, but it's $900/set.
I also just realized how badly the top-shelf western companies (Ceradyne, Tencate) completely turbo-murder the Russians.Tencate in 2000 could make you a Level IV helmet for just under 10lb. Russia in 2008 could get you a GOST-2 helmet, good for steel-core 7.62x25 Tokarev up to 1,460, so definitely better than a lot of the IIIA+ stuff discussed recently) for 13.2lb with a helmet tail, and a visor good to only GOST-1 (9x18mm steel core at 1,066ft/s).Boron carbide supremacy continues. Granted, I would be surprised if the Tencate helmet posted sub-15mm BFD.
>>65143899That's about what my Ulbricht c1300h weighs.>>65143881If they're made well they have a basically indefinite shelf life. 50 year old plate I've got is in great shape, passes tap. If you want to upgrade anyways just go grab some ESAPIs.
>>65143978Very nice. Have you seen they've got a new VPAM PM-6 version? https://www.ulbrichts.com/protection/es/der-zenturio-c1300h-nachfolger-ist-da-zenturio-vpam6/>If they're made well they have a basically indefinite shelf life.Emphasis on made well. A lot of people bought TAP Gammas back in the day and they delaminated due to bad adhesive. There are ESAPIs with delamination too, even. Aluminum crack arrestors were banned a couple years ago likely for that reason, which threw Avon Ceradyne into a tizzy because they had to redesign models.>50 year old plate I've got is in great shape, passes tapChicken plate or VBAGT?>If you want to upgrade anyways just go grab some ESAPIs.If you can get REV. G or later, definitely seconded, but then you need to source soft armor because they're ICWs to reach full rating. Fortunately there's a lot of strong options upthread. REV.G and up beat 3x M2AP with 4" spacing, which is solid, or 3x M995 @ 3,400 which a lot of the featherweight B4C plates can't do.The latest gen Gilliam 9969 at 5.5lb might have ESAPIs on the ropes given it's standalone, but that's a major to be seen.
>>65143986Chicken. Al2o3I'd take standalone g esapi over a 4403 or similar, and I don't even hate hesco
>>65143992>Chicken. Al2o3Impressive. I really gotta go track down a pair of SARVIPs just to have some truly collectible armor. .50 cal plates are always a good conversation starter, even if they need massive standoff.>I'd take standalone g esapi ESAPIs are ICW until you get to the very latest GEN-IV VTP plates, which just got an NSN last year. There's that old Midwest Venture FM4, which meets ESAPI requirements on multi-hit M2AP, but I've never seen proof it handles M995. B4C plates tend to be sketchy there because of WC-core induced amorphization, but SiC-B4C hybrid such as REV.G onward does better there.The FM4 also is like twelve years old, and given the timing, I wouldn't bank on it using anything novel. More expensive than 4800s back in the day, IIRC.>over a 4403 or similar, and I don't even hate HescoThe 4403 struggles with being an Alumina-Fiberglass design and is really no different than the 4S17M or OG RMA 1155. B4C or SiC-B4C will demolish that, of course. Hell, even some of the newer-breed Chinese-American plates like the GTS 1023 or LAPG Al2o3-Aramid IVs mess em up bad.
>>65144004I've never actually seen the b4c 50 BMG Sarvip. I measured it a while back and if you take into account the fact that it's like 11x14, the 80571 only has marginally higher sectional density than RMA's old level 4 plates.
Also just for reference purposes, pic rel is the current "known" specs on GEN-IV ESAPI and GEN-IV XSAPI. The ESAPI is a Ceradyne, apparently having defeated LTC and Tencate for the contract. The XSAPI is still a work in progress, probably since standalone 3x M993 defeat at 3,050ft/s with a 5.5b plate, with drop pro, is gonna be real hard even with the raised 62mm BFD limit.
>>65143906I bought from Hoplite previously, and now they offer the LTC 26225 swimmer plate for dirt fucking cheap (compared to everything else), is there a catch there? I noticed they don't have those plates in a standard cut.I haven't looked at anything gear-related since 2022, so any news on developments since then (I hadn't even considered that the Ukraine war would give useful data on modern armor) would be very welcome
>>65144023>I've never actually seen the b4c 50 BMG Sarvip.Ceradyne sends their regards. Ridiculous they had this stuff in the early 1990s.> measured it a while back and if you take into account the fact that it's like 11x14, the 80571 only has marginally higher sectional density than RMA's old level 4 plates.Not too surprising. The 80571 was a seriously expensive plate. Boron carbide is always going to have a huge areal density advantage on Alumina. Alumina-fiberglass has been the basic play for Level IV plates since the 1970s. There's basically no technological difference between an AVCO PA500 from 1971 and an RMA 1155 from 2019, except the AVCO is rated for M2AP at 3,000ft/s and the RMA 1155 has drop protection.
>>65144037The 26225? Oh yeah, there's catches with that. One of LTC's holdout models from the mid-00s. First off, it's an 0101.04 plate. so there is no drop protection. It's also pretty thin at like 0.73", so it's likely a definite do-not-drop like Hesco's "LV" plates or the Highcom 4SAS4.Second, there's a pound difference between the SAPI and Swimmer 10x12. 7.5lb for the SAPI, 6.5lb for the swimmer per Hoplite. That's abnormal. There should never be more than a 0.2-0.3lb difference. Turns out LTC nominally sizes their older swimmer plates per Bulletproofme, it's probably more of a 9.6x11.6.Third, per Midwest, it's only good for a single hit of 7.62x39mm BZ API. It'll stop M2AP as a IV, and BZ API is a greatly inferior threat, but that means it has no multi-hit. The Hesco 4403 stops three with min. 51mm spacing.This is a seriously antiquated model. NIJ 0101.04 hasn't been the standard since 2008. the swimmers are potentially old stock or just new plates assembled using old stock materials. I would avoid. Protech 2230s if you can find them are ideal, unless you can't do a 1.2" thick plate. Lighter than a Hesco 4403 and ridiculous headroom over base IV spec. I got mine for under $400/set, but you do have to buy used / second hand since it was originally credential-blocked.>I haven't looked at anything gear-related since 2022, so any news on developments since then (I hadn't even considered that the Ukraine war would give useful data on modern armor) would be very welcomeChinese plates have gotten a lot better as long as you know who to stick with. Militech, Gilliam, Stealth Armor Systems. Tungsten-rated plates are now cheap, see Gilliam 8002 at $628/pair. RMA continues to suck. Highcom got shady. Hesco repaired their reputation... mostly. There's new players in the armor space. Interesting stuff coming out of China and Turkey with 5lb lightweight B4C IVs.0101.07 is actually active now, but you can't see the CPL until the NIJ decides it's fleshed out enough.
>>65144037Also for some other new developments, there's a fourth ceramic now. SiC-TiB2. Used to be confined to the Adept Colossus, now also available with the lighter Archon (IV + M995, AP4), Gilliam 9969 (IV + M995), and some flavors of Dragonskin. Suspected OEM for it is Shandong Yasai out of CHINA.Also, not sure if you're aware, but Shotstop turned out to be a bunch of bullshit artists hackjobbing plates and sticking fake NIJ labels on Chinesium, they got the feds on their ass and the CEO is doing five years in the slammer. There's a total deluge of their garbage on the used market. Stay away from them hard. Chinese are making Zylon-F, so watch for that if any new super-high-performance armor shows up from China.Protech / Safariland / Hardwire recently launched a new set of Hardwire plates and soft armor. The new DT306C actually gives the VelSys PBZSA some competition, but is an expensive ass plate. $2,800 or so a set. VelSys is pushing a new plate cut with the "Wraith" carrier, supposed to offer more coverage than SAPI, but it's a total bomb so far.
Huh, new food for thought. Cercom had pure TiB2 armor in 2001, over twenty years before Adept had SiC-TiB2. Doping SiC with it is the easy part, so I wonder if there were some proto-Colossus X-threat plates way back when. Cercom was very capable (got bought out by BAE) and was within lunging distance of Ceradyne, tech-wise.Also, "Paxis" as of a year ago is now making plates using B4C-TiB2, which was recently investigated by the Chinese for toughening B4C and resolving the tungsten-core weakness. Israeli firm. CEO is former IDF. They are also developing a B4C-SiC-TiB2 three-way hybrid ceramic. Actual specs are hard to come by, but the three way ceramic apparently works with strike faces as little as 2.9mm thick. Also boob porno plates.
>>65143899just have it rest on the shoulders with a vision slit at that point.
I'm buying an analog Tiny Whoop to learn how2drone. Does anyone else here do drone stuff for larping? The ability to have a small camera you can use to check areas out seems rather useful.
>>65144927No but I'm interested. Let us know how the tiny whoop works for your purposes saar.
>>65144942If I can figure out how to fly through my place without crashing I'm going to start taking it out innawoods. The headset I got can record up to 10 minutes of footage at a time so I can make my own Ukraine War larp footage if I wanted to.
>>65144950very nice
>>65144962And if the Tiny Whoop works, then I can start messing with the 10 inch drones like a Nazgul. Its funny how all the racing drones with frames larger than 5 inch come with disclaimers like its some pseudo ITAR product.
This is America.
>>65144970Jimmy rolled up to school with a .700 nitro express. Yeah I dunno if that backpack panel is gonna work.
>>65144997What happens when timmy pulls out the FPV?
>>65145693.700 nitro express ratshot
>>65145761Hope Jimmy has that fps sweat reaction time
>>65145789He's got 2k hours in Unreal Tournament 99
NEW: >>65145818NEW: >>65145818NEW: >>65145818NEW: >>65145818NEW: >>65145818
>>65132763Anyone know if these guys are any good or if its just Chinese and Id be better off just buying off aliexpress?https://shekkingears.com/en-ca/products/6094a-2010?_pos=106&_sid=5f860eca8&_ss=r
I was reading this thread on the toilet.
